Tell me one (1) reason why you shouldn't be marxist in 2020.

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Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:33:09 2020 No.15653634 [Reply] [Original]

Tell me one (1) reason why you shouldn't be marxist in 2020.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:34:21 2020 No.15653642 >>15653634 Lenin

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:35:54 2020 No.15653653 >>15653642 What about him?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:36:36 2020 No.15653659 >>15653634 Because Posadism exists.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:37:19 2020 No.15653666

Communism means just Waging for some peasant Commune, usually in terrible conditions

Social democracy is thousand times better
I’m living a very comfy neet life in a based western eu country and get everything I need
Why would I want to wagekek like a peasant for some filthy commune lmao
NOTHING BEATS SOCIAL DEMOCRACY

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:38:14 2020 No.15653672 >>15653666 >666 hmmm...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:38:57 2020 No.15653679 >>15653666 Capitalism is inherently contradictory and simple regulations cannot fix it from eventually collapsing on its own. Social Democracy lives off wealth stolen from third world nations. Cope more

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:39:00 2020 No.15653682 File: 544 KB, 500x706, 1577247109506.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653666 based

Anomynous Sat Jun 20 13:39:01 2020 No.15653681
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>>15653634
>lived a degenerate lifestyle
>most of his ideas were refuted
>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain

Can we just forget about this old fucker?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:40:07 2020 No.15653688 File: 35 KB, 290x512, a0fda978a3caba958e50067ab65a0996.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653653 He really liked cats.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:40:24 2020 No.15653693 File: 41 KB, 622x423, 1585232957803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653666

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:40:43 2020 No.15653698 There's money to be earned anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:41:34 2020 No.15653703 I like not living in a second world shithole

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:41:44 2020 No.15653705 >>15653681 >his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice only a brainlet can ignore how central planning and socialist policy greatly improved living standards in the 20th century. like it or not, you cannot deny that it worked.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:42:53 2020 No.15653720 >>15653705 So communism is when government do thing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:43:06 2020 No.15653724 >>15653653 No one was able to apply Marx's ideas successfully. Lenin was the first to fail.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:43:51 2020 No.15653732

>>15653634
>Kołakowski concluded that Marcuse's ideal society "is to be ruled despotically by an enlightened group [who] have realized in themselves the unity of Logos and Eros, and thrown off the vexatious authority of logic, mathematics, and the empirical sciences
>thrown off the vexatious authority of logic, mathematics, and the empirical sciences
leftists don't even believe in objective reality so I see absolutely no reason why you would except opportunism or mental illness.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:43:58 2020 No.15653734

>>15653681
>>lived a degenerate lifestyle
Alcoholism, cigarette addiction, and writing-induced poverty are /lit/ as fuck
>>>most of his ideas were refuted
Like what?
>>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain
You've never actually read Marx have you newfriend?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:45:06 2020 No.15653744 >>15653720 not that guy but >do thing for people yea

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:46:14 2020 No.15653753 >>15653724 How did lenin exactly fail?

>>	Anomynous Sat Jun 20 13:47:05 2020 No.15653757 >>15653705 Capitalism made the world what it is today and that's a good thing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:47:15 2020 No.15653758 Marx is a genius. He came up with a perfect system: one to make morons enslave themselves. He was a better troll than Freud or Chris Langan, and killed more subhuman Slavs than Hitler ever could have dreamed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:47:17 2020 No.15653759 >>15653679 capitalism has no contradictions

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:47:30 2020 No.15653760 File: 29 KB, 921x1119, 1592666209299.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653732 Literally who..? Why are you quoting wikipedia? People who don't read books don't belong on /lit/

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:47:30 2020 No.15653761 >>15653720 A dictatorship of the proletariat is essentially a form of that. Material conditions under tsarist russia were awful, and the soviets greatly improved them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:48:06 2020 No.15653772 >>15653634 it's boring

>>	Anomynous Sat Jun 20 13:49:10 2020 No.15653782 >>15653734 >>>>most of his ideas were refuted >Like what? Like communism. We found out it didn't work when Russia, Cambodia, China, Cuba Venezuela, North Korea and Yugoslavia all tried it out and didn't work not in a single one.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:49:19 2020 No.15653783

>>15653757
It did, and none is denying that. Marxists do not claim that capitalism is inherently evil, most of them would prefer to live under capitalism than under feudalism and see it as a good progression, but that's it, society progresses, and capitalism is only getting worse and worse due to its inherent contradictions.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:51:18 2020 No.15653798

>>15653753
To my knowledge he was unable to implement socialism, so he passed the New Economic Policy to try to go back and try again, which would establish some sort of state capitalism. He died before he could do more, then Stalin came into the limelight. Not to mention that the other failures stemming from Marxist-Leninist thought.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:51:52 2020 No.15653805 >>15653772 based

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:51:52 2020 No.15653806 >>15653744 Hasnt social spending been a thing idk since forever? Have we always lived in a communis?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:52:49 2020 No.15653810

>>15653782
>communism didn't work in russia
*goes from poorest nation in europe to the second largest superpower, despite being attacked by the nazis and america*
>communism didn't work in china
china, thanks to the industrial base built by mao's government, is gonna have the biggest economy on earth in just a few decades, compare it to someplace like india
>communism didn't work in cuba
cuba despite being under embargo, has some of the best education and healthcare systems in all of latin america

Stop swallowing liberal ideology, and pick up a book.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:53:57 2020 No.15653817 >>15653810 >poorest nation in europe Russia was already an empire that could fight off France

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:54:58 2020 No.15653823 >>15653810 Also China is mostly capitalist and they're functional because they have a high average IQ, Chinks are successful in capitalist countries too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:54:59 2020 No.15653824 >>15653817 If it was so good, people wouldn't have wanted to revolt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:55:09 2020 No.15653827 >>15653810 But Maoism didn't work though, it was only went China had liberalization did massive economic growth happen.

>>	Anomynous Sat Jun 20 13:55:50 2020 No.15653831 >>15653823 >racism >opinion discarded

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:55:53 2020 No.15653832 Reminder that Marxism and communism are not the same and although many forms of communism rely on Marxist the reverse isn't true. Marxism is purely descriptive and not prescriptive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:56:09 2020 No.15653833 >>15653824 similarly if the USSR were good it wouldn't have collapsed and if Mao's economy had functioned they wouldn't have privatized

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:56:15 2020 No.15653834 >>15653798 I'm going off of what I read from a Zizek book a while ago btw.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:56:37 2020 No.15653840 >>15653827 Why didn't liberalization help india so much though? China was a feudal shithole before mao took over, it had 0 industrial base, if not for the government building it, liberalization wouldn't have done shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:57:10 2020 No.15653841 >>15653831 Well the Chinks are racist as shit themselves, so you have to discount the entire country I guess

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:57:41 2020 No.15653845 >>15653833 the soviet union didn't "collapse". switching to liberalism only made the country worse. read: "Socialism Betrayed: Behind the Collapse of the Soviet Union"

Anomynous Sat Jun 20 13:57:55 2020 No.15653848
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>>15653832
>Reminder that Marxism and communism are not the same and although many forms of communism rely on Marxist the reverse isn't true. Marxism is purely descriptive and not prescriptive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:58:01 2020 No.15653849 >>15653681 >>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice Marx barely wrote anything significant on communism. Even the Manifesto only deals very superficially with communism and Das Kapital not at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:58:10 2020 No.15653850 >>15653634 Simple: they're out of touch

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:58:10 2020 No.15653851

>>15653806
not really. you think they gave a fuck about peasants in the feudal ages?
stop thinking about communism in black and white terms where one end is no social spending whatsoever and the other is giving a homeless guy a ferrari.
you're not wrong many modern societies that we'd deem comfortable to live in have communism's influence in them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:58:17 2020 No.15653854 >>15653845 >the soviet union didn't "collapse". I see it must just be hiding

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 13:59:39 2020 No.15653859 >>15653841 you should die but you are already invalid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:00:27 2020 No.15653863 >>15653854 In a 1991 referendum, 77% of USSR citizen wanted the union to continue. You can't say it was rigged, because that same government ignored the result and dissolved the USSR.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:01:04 2020 No.15653874

>>15653760
I read books, but not books by people who deny objective reality, because why the hell would I? They deny reality.. It's a well known quote and herbert marcuse is one of the most important thinkers for modern leftism. You are a teenaged commie?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:01:45 2020 No.15653878 >>15653863 citizens*

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:02:33 2020 No.15653885 >>15653859 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/04/13/black-people-are-not-allowed-reports-of-discrimination-after-chinese-city-orders-mandatory-quarantine-for-african-residents/#6c0525295479

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:03:13 2020 No.15653889

>>15653848
It's true. Marxism describes the capitalist mode of production theorize historical materialism and that's it. Contrary to what people think it does not states communism should be established and doesn't describes communism in any way. That's why Raymond Aron, Nick Land or the French new right can be Marxists while not being communists.

>>	Anomynous Sat Jun 20 14:03:51 2020 No.15653893 >>15653841 You should give everyone a chance Anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:03:56 2020 No.15653895 >>15653885 that was 1 state i bet you're some "expat" teaching english in asia fucking invalid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:04:05 2020 No.15653897 >>15653863 did anyone give the Russian peasants a referendum over wanting the empire to continue? no they just told them what to do, which invovled a lot of them dying funnily enough either way it collapsed, it no longer exists

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:05:07 2020 No.15653906 >>15653895 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps#:~:text=The%20Xinjiang%20re%2Deducation%20camps,as%20part%20of%20a%20%22people's lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:05:20 2020 No.15653907 >>15653895 >Amerifats are so fat they believe China has US style states in a federal system.

>>	Anomynous Sat Jun 20 14:05:38 2020 No.15653912 >>15653889 You're right but surely because the two are so associated with each other it would be foolhardy to ever say such a thing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:06:41 2020 No.15653916 Humans have value beyond work

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:07:09 2020 No.15653923 >>15653906 >LOL XINJIANG you're still invalid don't get killed saying the wrong thing in the wrong place while you're there >>15653907 its a colloquialism call it a state a province whatever you want cunt

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:08:31 2020 No.15653935 >>15653923 >defending muslim concentration camps based racist

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:09:50 2020 No.15653944 >>15653935 how are they "concentration camps" ala nazi germany?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:12:16 2020 No.15653965 >>15653783 >progress >19th century theory fuck off

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:12:17 2020 No.15653966 >>15653944 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 no they just steal their organs

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:17:09 2020 No.15654001 >>15653810 >China >Communist He...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:17:44 2020 No.15654008 >>15653966 add me on discord ys#3062 i guarantee if we meet irl or you meet someone like me you're going to die

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:18:35 2020 No.15654014 >>15653810 >Cuba >healthcare He.... Quit swallowing castrist propaganda you fool. Healthcare is shit there, doctors do get proper education. Not the same thing. A doctor in Cuba earns 60 dollars a month. A taxi driver makes more. You are an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:18:52 2020 No.15654017 >>15653679 yeah capitalism is going to collapse any day now bro just like you guys have been saying for 150 years

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:20:52 2020 No.15654036 >>15653634 to kill communists one does not need to be a communist

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:21:35 2020 No.15654046
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>>15653810
>china, thanks to the industrial base built by mao's government,
LMAO, it was only thanks to the fact they accepted capitalism, otherwise chinese people wouldn't even exist today due to all starving to death

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:21:55 2020 No.15654048 File: 73 KB, 450x474, RHPwrvH.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15654008

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:22:42 2020 No.15654055 >>15653810 >cuba despite being under embargo, has some of the best education and healthcare systems in all of latin america Literally nobody in latin america wants to live in Cuba. Unless you are friend with government elites.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:22:43 2020 No.15654056

>>15654014
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/01/09/cuba-has-lung-cancer-vaccine-many-u-s-patients-cant-get-without-breaking-law/1019093001/

Compared to the american healthcare system? It is shit, yes.
But why don't you compare it to neighboring capitalist nations, why hasn't capitalism worked in haiti, guatemala and panama?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:23:13 2020 No.15654061 >>15654048 i lift and do mma. add me anytime you grow balls tranny

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:23:44 2020 No.15654065 >>15653634 Collectivism is Degenerate

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:24:27 2020 No.15654075 >>15654056 >why hasn't capitalism worked in haiti, guatemala and panama? Doesn't matter, capitalist northern europe is trillion times better than anything in cuba.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:24:28 2020 No.15654076 >>15654046 how can you cope with the fact that china is still lightyears ahead of its neighbour india, despite being relatively similar economically during the late 40's?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:24:38 2020 No.15654079
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Hey commies explain
I worked hard -saved some money up and managed to make it thanks to crypto, I took the risk with all my savings and I don’t see while I should share it with some leeches who don’t have any clue about managing their finances or how the economy works

>>	Deepshit Sat Jun 20 14:25:12 2020 No.15654085 >>15653634 Because anarchism is better

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:25:29 2020 No.15654087 >>15654076 >whataboutism Don't care.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:26:02 2020 No.15654091 I like having food.

>>	Deepshit Sat Jun 20 14:26:51 2020 No.15654099 >>15654079 Because the most important thing is that the vegetables are all tidy on the shelf, right?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:26:59 2020 No.15654100

>>15654079
Capitalism isn't inherently evil or bad, anon.
What marxists believe is that it is inherently contradictory, it seeks only profit and needs infinite growth, in a finite planet and where profit doesn't always equal human need.
not everyone has equal chances either, do you think you would have made it, if you were born in capitalist bangladesh, or congo?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:27:32 2020 No.15654107

>>15654056
Are you a dumbass? You clearly have no idea about Latin America. Populist gob+socialist agenda have been around latam for more than 100 years now. Capitalism was never allowed to work. Chile had an amazing economy before the socialists took over. Also take into account we had many commie dictatorships around.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:29:29 2020 No.15654115 >>15654056 Also Cuba is not even communist. Name one thing you think it makes it a communist country.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:29:57 2020 No.15654116 >>15654100 >it seeks only profit and needs infinite growth, in a finite planet Kardashev scale, infinite growth is possible, that the planet is finite it doesn't matter.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:30:19 2020 No.15654118 >>15654107 If Chile had good living standards, people wouldn't have voted for the socialists in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:31:17 2020 No.15654124 >>15654099 Socialist counties always have neglected infrastructure and everything is half assed Singapore is a great example of a tidy neat and clean country and how a country should look like in general

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:31:23 2020 No.15654125 File: 59 KB, 634x634, mariofemboyhooters.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15654079 Wow, looking up that boomer meme was a rabbit hole. Found some treasure though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:31:40 2020 No.15654127 File: 65 KB, 850x400, quote-it-is-necessary-that-i-should-die-for-my-people-but-my-spirit-will-rise-from-the-grave-adolf-hitler-133-84-81.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15654118 I wonder who else won by vote xD

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:32:58 2020 No.15654137 >>15654061 lol you'll get shot in your face you dumb fuck

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:33:16 2020 No.15654140 >>15654099 I'm pretty sure that the picture at the top is a socialist-esque but American farmer's market, and the bottom one is a still American chain store, but something something fuck Obama..

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:33:49 2020 No.15654144 >>15654116 Capitalists seem to be neglecting things such as space travel, and saving our planet because it is not profitable for them currently.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:34:14 2020 No.15654148 >>15654137 you in america? if we're in america i'll shotgun your fucking face off tranny pussy boi

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:35:33 2020 No.15654157 >>15654148 course you will lol. now keep sucking commie dick

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:35:48 2020 No.15654160 File: 208 KB, 2048x1365, space x.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15654144 Give it time, nothing happens instantly like a light switch.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:35:53 2020 No.15654161 >>15654075 >capitalist northern europe >especially when talking about healthcare Let me laugh some more...

>>	Deepshit Sat Jun 20 14:36:08 2020 No.15654166 >>15654124 I was cynical

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:37:09 2020 No.15654173 >>15654161 Are you implying CUBA has better healthcare than northern EUROPE? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:37:52 2020 No.15654180 >>15654157 i will. only one sucking dick is you tranny pussy boi add me anytime

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:38:26 2020 No.15654182 >>15654180 lick Xi's boots bitch

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:40:20 2020 No.15654194 >>15653634 Because I hate industrial society Get fucked

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:40:54 2020 No.15654195 File: 817 KB, 1500x1500, 467AAF66-FFC9-4A15-8A52-537D31E1A45B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] incel thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:41:01 2020 No.15654196 >>15654173 No, just that Northern Europe has socialist af healthcare.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:41:48 2020 No.15654204

>>15654118
Actually no. When people start having good living standards is when socialist ideas flourish. Look at the US. People begin to feel uncomfortable for their 'privilege' and they are easy to manipulate through egalitarianism, 'and so on and so on...'
I'm all for change, but socialism just does not look like the wisest option. Even people who are pushing socialism know this, this is why it is being redefined and hidden behind progressivism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:42:44 2020 No.15654214 >>15654180 Y u hate trannies anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:43:22 2020 No.15654217 File: 39 KB, 455x887, econ index.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15654196 >socialist af healthcare. Bruh northern europe have the most capitalistic nations in the world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:47:25 2020 No.15654245 >>15653634 This thread is the equivalent of a pol thread, Jesus Christ enough with the political bait nonsense and the fuck out.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:48:12 2020 No.15654252

how do you define what is equal? does that mean everyone should have exactly the same? what about the crippled guy in need of a wheel chair -- do we now all need wheel chairs to be equal or should we all be without them?? or should we all get something that is equal to a wheel chair, but in that case how do we decide on what is equal to a wheel chair??? hmmm.... maybe if we had some token to split among us and let scarcity and necessity of the item decide the value of that item....hmmmmmm-------

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:48:16 2020 No.15654255 >>15654204 Yes, early 20th century russia and 40's china were the peak of human civilization.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:48:19 2020 No.15654259 >>15654217 >economic freedom is capitalism >healthcare can't be socialist in a country with high economic freedom Big assumptions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:49:11 2020 No.15654264 >>15653863 >In a 1991 referendum, 77% of USSR citizen wanted the union to continue. That just means they wanted to remain a massive state and not break up into separate nations. Communism was on it's way out and everyone knew that

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:50:12 2020 No.15654272 >>15654194 Yet you still participate in it. Curious!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:50:26 2020 No.15654274 >>15653782 see >>15653849

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:51:06 2020 No.15654285 File: 1.56 MB, 1418x906, 1591846325585.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653679 >inherently contradictory name one

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:52:27 2020 No.15654294 >>15653634 I can't. Landlords are the devils.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:52:33 2020 No.15654297

>>15653966
Chinese "organ harvesting" is a longtime misinformation campaign that Falun Gong has pushed long before Xinjiang, and the China Tribunal is a front group using liberal European media figureheads initially hired on to work on their newspaper. Aren't you motherfuckers all about 'fake news'? Why the fuck are you trusting NBC

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:52:56 2020 No.15654300 >>15654259 >economic freedom comes from the liberal tradition emphasizing free markets, free trade, and private property under free enterprise. All of the countries in the list are the most capitalistic in the world, there is no assumption.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:53:33 2020 No.15654304 >>15654285 the tendency of the rate of profit to fall despite the wealth of any given nation

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:53:39 2020 No.15654305 >>15654300 >economic freedom Why is the US so low?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:54:01 2020 No.15654306 >>15653634 Marxism is a slave ideology. I’m not a slave.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:54:08 2020 No.15654308

>>15654255
You are comparing two different things. One thing is earlier socialism another thing is what we have now. Quit holding on to old ideas. There is now way to pitch in socialism to someone who knows what it its to live in a very poor, socialist country.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:54:13 2020 No.15654310 >>15653634 Because Islam is the truth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:55:10 2020 No.15654318 >>15654204 >implying the living standards in the US weren't better in the past, when the middle class was much larger.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:56:26 2020 No.15654324 >>15654305 Countries above the US have less economic restrictions, there is 181 countries in the list, it is still at the top of the list.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:57:30 2020 No.15654330 >>15654324 What does less economic restrictions mean in the context of the study? What factors are they looking at?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 14:57:41 2020 No.15654332

>>15653753
Lenin failed to bring the world any closer to communism. Without the Bolshevik revolution then today we would have a capitalist Russia, thanks to the Bolshevik revolution we instead have a capitalist Russia.

At best the USSR could have been a beacon to inspire an actual communist revolution in an actually capitalist society but it patently did not do that. Every 'marxist'-Leninist revolution was little more than an anti-imperialist bourgeois revolution by the native bureaucrats of whatever colony it emancipated.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:00:41 2020 No.15654352 >>15654100 >Capitalism isn't inherently evil or bad, anon muh oppressive system that exploits the working class. Marxism does not talk about a contradiction but an emotional response to a hierarchy they do not consider legit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:01:24 2020 No.15654355 >>15654330 Just read it yourself, I did enough making you aware of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:01:30 2020 No.15654357 >>15654324 So the US has less economic freedom than Chile?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:01:58 2020 No.15654360 >>15654355 I will thanks <3

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:02:02 2020 No.15654361 >>15653688 cute!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:02:48 2020 No.15654369 >>15654357 According to that data as of 2020, yes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:03:35 2020 No.15654377 >>15654352 >argue against me in favor of my strawman please pathetic

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:04:29 2020 No.15654384 >>15654361 But >>15654118 >>15654107 It's socialist in 2020. Is the US therefore socialist?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:05:31 2020 No.15654390 >>15654384 Should be for >>15654369 not >>15654361

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:06:55 2020 No.15654397 >>15654377 “Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.Workingmen of all countries unite!” No strawman commie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:08:21 2020 No.15654400 >>15654384 Chile hasn't been socialist for many years, it's neoliberal as fuck. It's gotten to that point on the list after decades of austerity measures and privatizations of previously nationalized industries

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:08:33 2020 No.15654402 >>15654355 So legal drugs and prostitution and lower reflgulations on immigration would be factors in giving those countries a higher score

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:08:33 2020 No.15654403 >>15654384 >>15654390 Don't know what you mean? Chile is socialist? No it isn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:08:53 2020 No.15654407 >>15654390 >>15654384 What? Chile had socialist government long before 2020... Are you gonna make a point for marxism or ...?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:11:07 2020 No.15654425 >>15654407 To clarify >2006-2010 Socialist gov. >2014-2018 socialist gov

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:15:17 2020 No.15654456 >>15654425 Force of the Majority is slightly more centered socialist, they also supported Bachelet (sp?) in 2013

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:16:20 2020 No.15654464 >>15654400 >>15654403 Damage control. >>15654407 The US is socialist, it ranks lower on your capitalism ranking than a socialist country.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:17:18 2020 No.15654469 >>15653761 >the soviets greatly improved them. By...killing everyone?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:17:23 2020 No.15654470 >>15654464 What? What socialist country?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:18:14 2020 No.15654477 >>15654470 You Americans and your huffing of heavy metals...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:18:59 2020 No.15654480 File: 262 KB, 1047x481, Original Antifa members - Rape during the occupation of Germany.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653634 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:20:55 2020 No.15654496 >>15654477 Im not american. Also, what?

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:21:04 2020 No.15654497

>>15654425
Bachelet is a social democrat who worked with the already-existing, largely right-wing governmental bodies through one of the most economically stagnant periods in the country's modern history; she passed some basic transportation and economic security reforms but the lack of progression in worker's rights actually increased by a lot of basic metrics (such as wages) under her leadership. Now she pushes regime change propaganda against actual socialists in the UN.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:22:48 2020 No.15654510 >>15654496 >so braindamaged he forgets what country he's from

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:24:05 2020 No.15654516 >>15654397 So you cant discern the difference between critique and open propaganda.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:24:41 2020 No.15654524

>>15654497
So¿?¿¿
She might be a social democrat but she definitely belongs to a socialist party.
Yes. Constitution did not allow for much change. This is why they are pushing for a 'constituyente'(the ones Maduro liked a lot) .
When I say them I mean the socialist party

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:25:40 2020 No.15654531 >>15654516 Why do you guys think this is a valid argument lmao. They fucking said it didn't they

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:25:52 2020 No.15654533 >>15654516 Thank you for admitting that any marxist is basically a liar.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:30:47 2020 No.15654577

>>15654524
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? 8 years of presidential reform in Chile does not mean it was a socialist country. (I wouldn't say it was under Allende either but he did turn the tide much more strongly than the party has been able to since)

the US would barely change it's position on an 'economic freedom index' under a Sanders presidency as well

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:33:06 2020 No.15654595 >>15654577 Sanders isn't considered a socialist outside of the US m80.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:33:18 2020 No.15654597 >>15654397 this type of shit existed before Marx was even on the scene of politics. Marxism doesn't make any positive assertions that weren't already in politics in the first place. it just adds the critique of Capitalism to the picture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:34:50 2020 No.15654604 >>15654595 Exactly; my point is that Bachelet is no more a socialist than Sanders is and Chile was not a 'socialist country' because she was elected

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 15:42:23 2020 No.15654649

>>15654531
>>15654533
Gotta put things in terms that will ignite the revolutionary spirit. Doesn't mean their inst theoretical theory supporting revolutionary actions.
Even if you disagree with Marx. He understood that books alone will not change the world but theoretical framework is still required.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:01:03 2020 No.15654776

>>15653810
Stop peddling Bolshevik myths.
By 1914 Russia was the world's 4th economy, 1st or 2nd by growth rates (that's counting both developed and developing countries around the world). It was on par with France in terms of electricity production, it had a very rich cultural life, a working justice system (something that ceased to exist in Russia after the revolution), very good higher and middle education, and was well on its way to solving the problem of illiteracy. It is known that Russian development was a major concern for Germany, probably serving as one of the reasons for WW1.
It was no heaven on earth, but every Bolshevik achievement would have been achieved by mid-20s without their inteference.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:04:08 2020 No.15654797 >>15653679 Bro your God, Karl Marx, could not solve the transformation problem to save his fucking life so I wouldn't be acting like he completely knew what he was talking about. He wasn't retarded but for some things he's straight up wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:04:10 2020 No.15654798 >>15654776 It also had slavery

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:06:11 2020 No.15654810 >>15653634 Because capitalism is too powerful to be defeated

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:07:31 2020 No.15654824 >>15653634 Because capitalism is better in all possible metrics, unless you are a total loser and not worth living anyway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:09:46 2020 No.15654846 >Commie keks and nazi keks will forever be a commodified puppet to capital. Damn, liberal chads win again, I love social Democracy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:12:04 2020 No.15654864 >>15654604 >Bachelet is no more a socialist than Sanders That's nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:14:28 2020 No.15654881 >>15653705 I can and I will Marxism/Communism is not when the government does things

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:16:37 2020 No.15654905

>>15654577
If you want to discuss Chile's politics then say so.
I do think they did a lot of damage to an already declining economy.
I was born in Guatemala and Chile used to be a paradise for people in latam. We all wanted to go there and get a better lifestyle doing the exact same thing

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:36:20 2020 No.15655074
File: 1.70 MB, 1200x1944, Ingres,_Napoleon_on_his_Imperial_throne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I cannot fathom the state of this board nor the state of this website as a whole. Everyone spouting their ideological one-liners, not willing to read anything beyond their horizons such as, say, Marx or X "right wing" author. Every single post is either a strawman or an ad hominem. Nonetheless, there are anons out there who still try to get things discussed on this god-forsaken place; sadly, there are greener pastures out of here (IBs). On the other hand, Americans are so brainwashed against Communism that it is extremely easy to name who is who here. To them, it seems like there is no option other than this monstruosity we live in, all of it driven by profit, wageslavery and the generation of wealth by its own sake, leaving behind human affairs because, let's face it, they are not as profitable as humans humanely profiting from other humans's fair work. Say Communism and their brains just shortcircuit. It's all so tiresome...

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 16:58:52 2020 No.15655298

>>15653810
russia already was a superpower, and woudl be bigger without gommunisb
russia was never attacked by the USA, every european country got atacked in WW2
china became great after a liberalization, and is by no means communist.
cuba is a shithole and has shit tier education and health if you are not rich.
pick up a book retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:00:16 2020 No.15655314 >>15653863 >wanted the union to continue. >union of countries is communism ??

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:01:48 2020 No.15655329 The working class are perpetual cucks so they deserve everything they get.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:02:14 2020 No.15655337 >>15655298 >russia already was a superpower Read a book >russia was never attacked by the USA What is the cold war? >china became great after liberalization Because it had its base built by communists >cuba is a shithole Because of the sanctions

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:04:14 2020 No.15655358 >>15654798 serfdom was abolished

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:04:23 2020 No.15655361 >>15653634 Zizek is not marxist. He describes himself as "hegelian"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:05:59 2020 No.15655370 >>15655337 You read a book. Russia was a superpower even if gdp/cap was low, faggot. Cold war=no atacks from usa to russia Still, china is not communist and it hardly ever were

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:09:18 2020 No.15655405 >>15654480 the g*rmans deserved it

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:11:19 2020 No.15655425 >>15653679 This is a great trick by the system. We claim to be anti-imperialists, but in actuality it is just doublespeak to the masses, meanwhile we harvest the most valuable resources off other continents and call it humanitarianism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:12:37 2020 No.15655439 >>15653634 If you have assets exceeding six figures

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:13:31 2020 No.15655448 >>15653666 check 'em

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:14:08 2020 No.15655455 >>15653782 Communism isn't Marx's idea.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:16:10 2020 No.15655472 >>15655370 A superpower that got btfo by fucking japan.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:16:13 2020 No.15655474 >>15654824 >A system that has internal contradictions impossible to solve is better in all possible metrics.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:20:12 2020 No.15655510
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>>15655074
your are absolutely right and I wholeheartedly agree that it's useless to have a political discussion on lit. americans and europeans might use the same words but they mean entirely different concepts all the time. the best strategy is keep a discussion along the lines of a certain book or author, so all anons use the author's definition.

tl;dr: read the fucking sticky, new kid

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:21:49 2020 No.15655519 >>15653634 Because you could be a Georgist instead

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:22:48 2020 No.15655526

>>15655074
America built itself on business, on the expense of the native americans, taking their land and ressources to feed the Capitalistic machine. Of course they won't criticize the system that benefited them so much. Americans and chinese will probably the last to criticize Capitalism, the former because it is their craddle, were they were born, the latter because they have hive mentality, and just do things, without even realizing what it is they are doing.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:36:07 2020 No.15655639

>>15655474
Yes. It's either that or mass graves for the kulaks and dissidents.
>people go hungry, therefore capitalism is evil
You know, the wild thing is, there are absolutely no restrictions on voluntarily sharing wealth under capitalism. Crazy, right?
>but my LARPing system that results in millions of people shot in the head because their name appears on a list for seemingly no reason is better and freer and less oppressive
Listen to yourselves. Of course capitalism has its flaws. I think Bill Gates should be fucking killed. But Communism is not something to strive for.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 17:47:28 2020 No.15655723

>>15655639
Socialism isn't inherently authoritarian, the countries you are speaking of weren't democratic before socialism took place in them, the socialists didn't just "destroy" democracy in tsarist russia, or in batista's cuba.
capitalism isn't inherently "free" either, augusto pinochet for example, was a tyrant who also happened to be a capitalist allied with the us.
and even then, most socialist countries kept their governments not by choice, but because it was literally a necessity, since they had the world's largest empires trying to fight them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:01:00 2020 No.15655823 File: 126 KB, 550x600, -0-0-.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653634 i'm not a team player.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:17:07 2020 No.15655944 >>15654079 >working hard >crypto You mean gambling on shit coins is hard work?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:18:20 2020 No.15655954 >>15655823 I don't remember this Kafka story.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:20:08 2020 No.15655970 >>15655405 Two wrongs don't make a right, you ANTIFA scum.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:25:59 2020 No.15656018 >>15653634 It is founded on humanist beliefs, humanism is not compatible with the properties of life as we currently understand it, i.e. a constant competition to succeed to the detriment of others, thus making humanist societies unstable long-term

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:30:19 2020 No.15656044 File: 149 KB, 640x263, fxyeucsg0xz41.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Because I believe in private property and individual rights.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 18:52:16 2020 No.15656199 >>15655074 What are some good alternatives? Any forums with less ideological prejudice and absolutism and with more high quality discussion?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 19:01:52 2020 No.15656264 >>15655970 >ANTIFA look mum, the orange man taught me a new word!

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 19:08:46 2020 No.15656318

>>15653679
>stolen
This isn't the early 20th century pal, whitey doesn't just roll up and enslave native peoples. We trade with them and they come out ahead from where they were. They are not exploited. I would not consider China's nation-building investments in Africa exploitative. Consensual trade can never be exploitative.
>t. Soc Dem

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 19:42:09 2020 No.15656548

>>15655074
It seems like the spouted right wing alternatives are shit like BAP atm though. You'll see Nozick mentioned enough and Burke and so on, but Evola, BAP, Kantbot are jokes, Marx is an actual important thinker. Also the person Marx seems to have hated the most intellectually, Stirner, is mentioned plenty.

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 20:02:45 2020 No.15656698
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>>15655510
>it's useless to have a political discussion on lit
Because this is a literature board. Political 'discussion' just derails real discussion i.e. /lit/ related
>>15655526
Yes, Americans have made use of Capitalism extensively and, because of it, they are the top 1 (the percieved enemy, the dearest ally, etc). It does not justify the ammount of brainwashing Americans have gone through against possible actual alternatives and McCarthysm is to blame here. The Chinese are about to outplay the USA at their own game. It is no wonder, for countless American factories (and from other developed countries too) have moved to cheaper China a long time ago.
>>15656199
To name alternative forums or IBs here would be like killing them asap and that's the reason why I won't share them with you (sorry mate). Provided you're an avid searcher and there's an actual need for an alternative inside of you, you'll eventually make it.
>>15656548
Every political position, if ideological, is just a pile of burning shit waiting to be eaten, used and then spouted out as "truth". It's ironical, though, that the world has been engulfed in "truth". Imo, one has to trascend the limitations of thinking in dicotomies if one is to achieve actual, factual discussion about relevant issues. Left-Right, Capitalism-Communism, and other examples of thinking in dichotomies (white and black thinking) are just a form of "moral hemiplegia", as José Ortega y Gasset puts it (Revolt of the Masses).

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 20:03:18 2020 No.15656699

>>15656318
the problem is, that those deals are done with corrupted governments that don't give a fuck about their people, they sell all the resources of the country to get some money in their pockets leaving future generations fucked forever
Inb4 >those where elected by the people
yeah because the elections on third world countries are totally legit and not rigged in any way. Also the population is poorly educated, because the resources that should be used developing the country both socially and economically are wasted building useless stuff to stole money from the country

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 20:04:19 2020 No.15656709 >>15656698 >Imo, one has to trascend the limitations of thinking in dicotomies if one is to achieve actual, factual discussion about relevant issues. That's EZPZ, just read Derrida ;^)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 20:14:40 2020 No.15656809 >>15656698 Can you email me the names of these alternate literature IBs if I give you my email?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 22:08:43 2020 No.15657796 >>15653634 The Cold War

Anonymous Sat Jun 20 22:42:42 2020 No.15658074

>>15653634
Marx's endorsements of capitalism and his assertions of inevitability have been extremely detrimental to leftism in the US. It encourages the laziness and complacency we see in the American left today, where self-proclaimed revolutionary MLs are content to write in Bernie every four years and spend all the time intervening complaining on reddit and /lit/. Western Marxists are a dangerous, hypocritical cancer- endorsing a methodology that only works in the colonies and the periphery and doing exactly zero praxis or organizing. They are happy to sit on their fat asses, consuming and exploiting shamelssly while rooting for China and Cuba online like it's a fucking team sport. It reduces people who would otherwise be ardent revolutionary leftists into social incrementalists- effectively into liberals. It's a useless doctrine in a country where late capitalism has entrenched itself so deeply, and if it continues to infest the American far left, we will have no communist infrastructure in place if/when a revolutionary moment arrives.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 22:55:54 2020 No.15658145 >>15653823 other than IQ I totally agree, the Chinese system is a de facto Capitalist system disguised as a Social Democratic system. I mean just look at the way their market works and how their companies operate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jun 20 23:07:22 2020 No.15658200 >>15653679 >Social Democracy lives off wealth stolen from third world nations. Might makes right

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:03:24 2020 No.15658506

>>15656699
He's right, you really think this is the 19th century. Foreign capitalists aren't as interested in cheap resources nowadays as much as they are in having a modernized, growing country that can function as a market for their goods and offer opportunities for investment. And few despotic regimes can just sit back and collect money, you need foreign support and you need support of key segments of the population, power doesn't exist in a vacuum. That's why some of the most brutal despotic regimes of, say, the Middle East, have also created welfare systems and mechanisms for wealth redistribution that you'd be envious of, and they collapsed when they failed to deliver reforms or keep sustained growth. Power today implies a consistent effort to grow, modernize and fit into certain international standards, they're not just tribal leaders in villages who happen to own the guns.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:11:56 2020 No.15658527 because it's 2020

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:34:29 2020 No.15658622 >>15654217 >Hong Kong Oh nonononono

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:35:13 2020 No.15658623 >>15653782 It failed in Cuba because of the US embargo. They literally threatened every nation not to do business with Cuba.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:35:42 2020 No.15658629 >>15653634 Socialism doesn't work.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:37:58 2020 No.15658644 >>15654079 the top looks like goods being horded, the bottom looks like goods distributed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:38:59 2020 No.15658650 >>15654125 ancient twitter meme from like 2 weeks ago.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:41:50 2020 No.15658665 >>15654776 Source?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:46:54 2020 No.15658686 >>15658623 Sucks to suck

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 00:54:33 2020 No.15658732
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>>15653634
because you're post-marxist "marxist", isn't even a marxist; he's a radical-reactionary hybrid.

the friction you see today is due to the lack of synthesis between the 20th century ideologies. hence's the push by the avant-garde (like Zizek) to facilitate this post-ideological synthesis so we can move on to a more sophisticated post-political worldview.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:07:13 2020 No.15658793 >>15653679 this

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:10:52 2020 No.15658817 >>15654407 >>15654425 Bachelet's goverments were neoliberal at worst, socdems at best. Not even close to socialism fuck off.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:13:01 2020 No.15658832 >>15655074 Yeah, it's all so tiresome to be honest. Since /pol/ colonized this board, it went to shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:16:15 2020 No.15658846 >>15653634 your face, Anon. you fuck pigs.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:18:14 2020 No.15658853 Why are there so many commies brigading /lit/ This board is literally just race bait, off topic, and politics threads now

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 01:24:42 2020 No.15658871
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>>15653634
There's not a single reason to not be a Marxist and this thread is proof of that. Not a single logical argument.

Capitalism is an artificial general intelligence (AGI).

And I say this as a Marxist. Marx already knew this but of course at the time he didn't have the terminology we have now. Let me tell you about AGIs. Computer scientist are actively trying to find ways to make an AGI safe to implement. So far it is not safe because no matter the AGI's objective function, it would tend to do shit we don't want it to do. For example, it is proven that if you give it a simple objective function like collecting stamps, it will start consuming all our resources, eventually reaching the point where it will start to kill living organism to use their atoms to print more stamps. You can think of ways to avoid this but you'll probably fail since the scientific community still hasn't found one.

You see the problem we face now? We already built an AGI: capitalism. We know where this leads: complete resource repletion, out-of-control positive feedback loops, basically the AI apocalypse. In theory, we have no idea how to stop it an AGI. In practice, you should become a communist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:12:57 2020 No.15659055 >>15658871 > t. Elon Musk's Nick Land replicant

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:17:19 2020 No.15659071 >>15653679 how does communism keep its self from collapsing?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:22:07 2020 No.15659087 >>15658686 They were doing quite good in many aspects prior to that, though. It was precisely because of that that the embargo happened. The US was scared of other LatAm nations following suit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:24:04 2020 No.15659100 >>15653634 Marxism just replaces one form of elitism with another, also man is naturally greedy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:31:08 2020 No.15659129 >>15653634 >(1) reason why you shouldn't be marxist in 2020 The company one would be forced to keep.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:38:21 2020 No.15659163 >>15653634 horrible ugly aesthetics

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:45:56 2020 No.15659210 >>15653634 If you're an actual marxist and embrace the dialectic then you would support trump and the right wing reaction right now. The idpol freaks are the tools of global capital

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 02:56:02 2020 No.15659257 >bait marx thread no.915134 gets a pass >thread about Bataille gets deleted because muh erotica Jannies should be executed by a firing squand

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:32:44 2020 No.15660162
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>>15653634
to "be marxist" online almost always has as much intellectual depth as buying a che guevara t-shirt. for most people it's just fashion, while voting blue no matter who.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:43:31 2020 No.15660226

>>15653634
it's just one more ideology for people without a religion to reify as "the one true path," in lieu of whatever their grandparents believed.
meanwhile, young people growing up in the former soviet states have grandparents who believed in communism! (of course it's just as passe to them as evangelical christianity is to vast swathes of young americans.)
think for yourselves instead of outsourcing the intellectual effort of your best years towards sustaining ideologies you had no part in creating. have your own epiphanies, instead of ones marx might have had.
political ideologies are just brainworms at this point. they only exist to discipline people into conforming to a particular worldview to form a political bloc. decide to be an unconventional marxist and you'll soon see how much your "comrades" will abuse you.
look at the people in their 60s and 70s who've been writing for academic journals and niche leftist mags for decades to see where that path leads. and that's a best-case scenario: eking out a living reproducing ideology.
have fun, i guess.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:49:19 2020 No.15660251 >>15653634 >Materialism No thanks

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:50:44 2020 No.15660264 >>15660226 God he actually type all this shit thinking it was a clever insight

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:53:38 2020 No.15660283 >>15660226 >have fun, i guess Aka bainless hedonism A fish could say something more substantial than what you said in this post.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 06:54:30 2020 No.15660288 >literature

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:04:15 2020 No.15660344 >>15660251 >>15660264 >posturing superiority for the audience instead of answering a single point figures

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:06:01 2020 No.15660354 >>15660288 fuck off to reddit, this place belongs to /pol/ now

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:19:55 2020 No.15660411 >>15660354 what subreddit should i go to

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:20:40 2020 No.15660413 >>15660411 r/Literature where the last bookfags who used to post here fled to

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:21:42 2020 No.15660419 >>15653634 Its 2020. Why the FUCK would I need some jobless retards failed philosophy?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:21:45 2020 No.15660420 >>15660413 thanks

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:24:27 2020 No.15660429 >>15653634 Because their observed methods of gaining power within established systems is deplorable and their blatant hypocrisy and ability to openly lie and mislead absolutely disgusts me.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:25:31 2020 No.15660435

>>15653634
Because the bourgeoisie vs proletariat dichotomy was a reductionism of the higher capitalist vs socialist struggle, and our modern society has synthesized into a merger of capitalism and socialism rather than a synthesis of the bourgeoisie and proletariat.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:25:34 2020 No.15660436 >>15660344 You're saying Marxism is not materialist? What is it then?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:26:03 2020 No.15660438 >>15653761 No, industrialism improved them. Communists didnt even invent industrialism, they were so late to the party that it required absolutely brutal conditions to catch up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:30:41 2020 No.15660463 >>15660436 sorry, I didn't mean to include your post meant this: >>15660283

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:34:44 2020 No.15660484 >>15660463 Dude, you literally said >have fun I guess That is textbook pea-brained hedonism. What do you expect me to think!?

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:43:59 2020 No.15660524

>>15658871
How would communism be any different? Central planning conducted by humans, as in the USSR, has failed because i wasn't able to reach a sufficient level of complexity. For central planning to work you'd have to have it done by an AI or a quasi-AI able to cope with the crushing complexity of resource management.

Maybe you mean market socialism instead of planning then but you'd still get the same kind of AGI as with capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 07:46:32 2020 No.15660535 >>15660484 it was a sarcastic remark, directed at those willing to "become marxists," after the dire picture I painted of being an academic writer nobody pays attention to but their tiny niche - it did not mean "have parties," you colossal bore.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:04:44 2020 No.15660625 >>15660535 Then you said literally nothing in that post which is actually worse than brainless hedonism.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:23:34 2020 No.15660701

>>15660625
if you couldn't hear what I said, then I'll dumb down my points - just for you:
>people long for structure in perceiving the complex world, so ideologies that promise this sort of simplification are tempting
>however, instead of trying to process everything through a "system" and sacrificing your sovereign ability to think for yourself for the sake of a political ideology you imagine will be materially beneficial to you, it's more productive in the long run to come to your own conclusions
>marxists constitute the cattiest backbiting network in the world, and engaging with them as though you're one of them means either subservient conformity, or else eventually being exiled from the group for perceived crimes against their narrow orthodoxies

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:24:04 2020 No.15660703

>>15653634
The Jewish nigger Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a ‘friend’, even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. In this he bases himself on the view that he ought to live the life of a Jewish baron, or Jew created a baron (no doubt by the countess). Just imagine! This fellow, knowing about the American affair, etc., and hence about the state of crisis I’m in, had the insolence to ask me whether I would be willing to hand over one of my daughters to la Hatzfeldt as a ‘companion’, and whether he himself should secure Gerstenberg’s (!) patronage for me! The fellow has wasted my time and, what is more, the dolt opined that, since I was not engaged upon any ‘business’ just now, but merely upon a ‘theoretical work’, I might just as well kill time with him! In order to keep up certain dehors vis-a-vis the fellow, my wife had to put in pawn everything that wasn’t actually nailed or bolted down!

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:31:57 2020 No.15660731

>>15654116
Kardashev scale is sci-fi and doesn't tell anything about "infinite growth". It just assumes that technology has a limitless room for development, which is delusional at best. I can make my own scale, "The Anon scale of Teleportation", which reveals that our world is at the value 0,6 of the scale and that when we reach the value of 10, teleportation will be a thing.
Also, the development of technology has consecuences that you should look into, that we're already seeing at a planetary scale, and i'm not talking about global warming but about cost effectivemeness. That's a crucial part of the contradictions Marx observed.
Now just stop losing your time and read a book or watch a documentary, even about the whales.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:44:31 2020 No.15660780 >>15656698 I think this put an end to all of the shenanigans spouted in here.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:46:09 2020 No.15660783

>>15660701
>however, instead of trying to process everything through a "system" and sacrificing your sovereign ability to think for yourself for the sake of a political ideology you imagine will be materially beneficial to you, it's more productive in the long run to come to your own conclusions
So you're saying brainless hedonism is a good system because all systems are good systems.

Wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:46:54 2020 No.15660784 >>15660419 >things that people who don't know anything about marx say about marx

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:48:14 2020 No.15660788 >>15653634 I think Marx was wrong in his attemt to add a vector to a whole society. It is too radical, egalitarian and bound to fail

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:49:31 2020 No.15660794 >>15660784 Get a job, fag

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:49:38 2020 No.15660796 I don't want to get stabbed by a Libyan muslim who arrived on a dinghi and got away with assaulting a judge because his skin is dark.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:51:23 2020 No.15660807 File: 125 KB, 1200x1200, Cathy Newman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15660783 >So you're saying brainless hedonism is a good system because all systems are good systems. No.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:52:51 2020 No.15660818

>>15660794
This was the same piece of sagacious wisdom given to Karl Marx by his wife before one of their children starved to death from his neglect. In a bold and defiant move, he told her no.

This same tradition of refusing to be a respectable and contributing member of society is carried on by his followers today.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:55:22 2020 No.15660834 >>15660807 So you're saying all systems are not good aka false?

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 08:56:21 2020 No.15660839

>>15660524
>How would communism be any different?
Because you would set up the goals, which would act as limiting parameters? You would say I want X tons of meat and Y tons of milk and the machine would optimize the production process to minimize resources and labour needed; market doesn´t have those limiting parameters.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:03:46 2020 No.15660869 >>15654196 >''socialism is when the government does stuff''

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:03:46 2020 No.15660870 >>15660839 In a Communist system, would I be able to pick lemons from my lemon tree, juice them and sell lemonade on my front lawn? This is what I really enjoy to do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:07:31 2020 No.15660895 >>15660794 >>15660818 40 million people and counting have applied for unemployment these past few months in the US

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:09:48 2020 No.15660909 >>15660870 It really depends on if the authorities care or not.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:13:24 2020 No.15660922

>>15660834
what I'm saying is based heavily on OPs question.
systems are imperfect creations. if they're good, they're only as good as what they allow us to understand or do.
using marxist analysis when you find it useful is fine - it's the "BEING a marxist" part I have a problem with. when people stop using it as a tool, and start using it as an identity.
learning to see like a marxist can be beneficial; learning to only ever see like a marxist is detrimental. it's a narrowing of vision, in my opinion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:15:10 2020 No.15660929 >>15660895 And you werent one of them despite your parents wishes youd move out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:16:42 2020 No.15660934 >>15660909 >needing an authorities permission to juice a fruit

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:20:00 2020 No.15660946 >>15660922 But you have to choose a system, even if you think they're imperfect. It's impossible to live in empty space.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:20:57 2020 No.15660953 >>15653634 I’d rather be an anarchist

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:21:21 2020 No.15660957 >>15658832 I hate this board now. /pol/niggers really are a scourge

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:24:24 2020 No.15660970 >>15660870 Depends on system, but most likely you would just give it to the friends for free like mentally healthy people do.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:26:36 2020 No.15660980 >>15660970 >Implying children which do this are mentally ill. I think you might be the ill one m8

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:28:33 2020 No.15660990 >>15653666 shill confirmed

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:29:19 2020 No.15660997 >>15653753 He died and was cucked by Papa Stalin

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:30:50 2020 No.15661001

>>15660946
if you think it's impossible to refuse to play that game, then we can only agree to disagree at this point.
I've actually grown curious what ideology you subscribe to, since you've expressed disbelief any can do without one. also, what nation are you from? I'm from Canada.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:31:56 2020 No.15661005 >>15654297 Ok Hu Xijing

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:40:39 2020 No.15661048 >>15661001 Christian United States Do you believe in your government?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:44:11 2020 No.15661068 >>15653759 go back kojeve

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:47:41 2020 No.15661078

>>15658506
>Foreign capitalists aren't as interested in cheap resources nowadays as much as they are in having a modernized, growing country that can function as a market for their goods and offer opportunities for investment
>pillaging a country's labor/resources for dirt cheap and then selling them the products made from them at a price that destroys chances of local competition while benefiting a fraction of the population and corrupt officials

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:49:43 2020 No.15661087

>>15661048
I'm surprised you answered "Christian," both because I genuinely expected I was talking to some Soc-Dem in Europe or something, and that you consider your religion to be an ideology - I'd consider a religion to be bigger than that.
>Do you believe in your government?
not trying to be a smart-ass - I don't know what you're asking here. do you mean, "do you believe your government is effective"?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:53:28 2020 No.15661107 >>15660731 >nO BuT MuH IMposSIBle teCHNologY https://phys.org/news/2020-06-teleportation-quantum-world.html Keep up with times gramps, just 15 years ago, flip phones were the rule, today that isn't the case.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 09:58:36 2020 No.15661144 File: 43 KB, 540x405, 1526504221753.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653634 I don't follow trends you fucking sycophant

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:00:02 2020 No.15661153 >>15653634 The whole of 20th century history

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:03:23 2020 No.15661172 >>15660980 I haven´t seen any children doing that, apart from American movies. And Americans will be genocided.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:04:17 2020 No.15661177

>>15661087
Religion is technically an ideology, but religion is an ideology which directs us to the Absolute, whereas the majority of other ideologies, themselves, plainly indicate they are grounded in sense-certainty and give little indication otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:05:19 2020 No.15661183 >>15661172 American isn't a race. Try again.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:19:20 2020 No.15661259 >>15661177 I feel like it's pretty ridiculous we shot over a dozen posts between us before discovering we actually agree.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 10:26:02 2020 No.15661294 >>15661259 Good, it's nice to meet a fellow Christian on this board. Feel like I'm in the eye of the hurricane that is this board when I meet a fellow Christian.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:01:07 2020 No.15661528

>>15661294
well, I'd say it was a good conversation.
my main critique would be the needless insults at the beginning:
>A fish could say something more substantial than what you said in this post.
>That is textbook pea-brained hedonism.
>Then you said literally nothing in that post which is actually worse than brainless hedonism.
>So you're saying brainless hedonism is a good system because all systems are good systems.
I guess you can see where I was coming from now; but where were you coming from with all that?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:15:42 2020 No.15661610 >>15661528 All of that was true, and should not have been taken as insulting, unless you are insulted by facts. Notice I didn't call you a 'dumbass' or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:21:58 2020 No.15661646 File: 868 KB, 1578x1398, Gulag_montage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15653634 Idk. Maybe read up on the Gulag?

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:30:20 2020 No.15661692

>>15660731
Kardashev is purely about energy consumption. I think the more interesting question around the scale is how humanities' relationship to the world and energy consumption will change. I don't think the only implication of being a type II is going to be trillions of people all playing bing bing wahoo on their xbox pi.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:30:49 2020 No.15661695 >>15661610 I have a lower threshold than you for what constitutes an insult, clearly. but I mean, what does hedonism mean to you, and what made you think I was advocating for it? (spoiler: I don't)

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 11:32:23 2020 No.15661705 >>15653634 I consider myself a very conservative marxist. But in all seriousness it’s because ideology makes everything worse and I believe any wise marxist eventually came to this conclusion

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 12:02:05 2020 No.15661927 File: 729 KB, 500x3902, 1243536236.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15661705 >I believe any wise marxist eventually came to this conclusion In fact, you are actually the most worst off.

Anonymous Sun Jun 21 12:04:09 2020 No.15661937

>>15661695
Hedonism is one of the most simplistic 'ideologies' grounded in sense-certainty. Creatures with teeny tiny brains are motivated to do things because 'muh feels' or squirts of chemicals between their handful of neurons. And to tell people that their primary motive in life is 'have fun' heavily indicates that orgasms and drugs are ideals instead of seeking God Almighty. 'fun' should only ever be a side-benefit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 12:30:27 2020 No.15662165 >>15653810 >second largest superpower If by superpower you mean a third world shithole with a shit ton of nukes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 12:32:03 2020 No.15662177 >>15653634 I am a Marxist I just want the Bourgeoisie to win

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 13:00:33 2020 No.15662437 >>15661078 Great argument. Read a book, understand how capitalism works and stop getting all your politics from Banksy and Latuff cartoons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 13:01:25 2020 No.15662442 >>15653634 I...I can't...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 14:10:56 2020 No.15663008 >>15654127 Hitler didn't "win the vote" he was appointed you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 14:15:10 2020 No.15663041 >>15653840 you really dont understand why india cant compete with china? really?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 14:16:24 2020 No.15663049 >>15663041 >Capitalist liberal India feudal shithole with an insane nationalist dictator in power >Communist evil China superpower that can compete with the USA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 14:17:21 2020 No.15663059 >>15663049 okay. you're baiting i dont know what i expected lol

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 14:17:57 2020 No.15663064 >>15663059 Not an argument cracka

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 15:00:44 2020 No.15663404 >>15663008 >he was appointed By whom and how?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jun 21 16:52:25 2020 No.15664225 >>15663404 not that guy but the captains of the german industry

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