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/lit/ - Literature

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15653397 No.15653397 [Reply] [Original]

Since so few Old English texts survive, how do we know this wasn't the 10th century equivalent of airport trash?

>> No.15653408

Because we can read it and judge for ourselves.

>> No.15653413

Because people's brains didn't have the consistency of chicken broth back then

>> No.15653425

beowulf is ok,what makes it good is that it illuminates a time that is obscure ,

>> No.15653439

>>15653413
why did they larp Christianity then?

>> No.15653440
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15653440

>>15653397
At the airport. Anybody rec wangs world?

>> No.15653509

>>15653397
heaneys translation is airport trash.

academic consensus is different, but i suspect beowulf was a forgery... it seems too convenient in its supplying of england with a national work comparable to roland.

>> No.15653517

Well there was no concept of airport trash? Papyrus was expensive and the printing press was not invented.

>> No.15653519

>>15653439
>tips fedora.

>> No.15653525

>>15653509
A forgery? What is the Aeneid to you then?

>> No.15653533

>>15653509
It takes place in Sweden and Denmark though? It also seemingly has knowledge of that time and place.

>> No.15653542

>>15653439
their apparent monotheism is actually due to the fitrah

>> No.15653545

>>15653397
you never know. be a skeptic

>> No.15653548

>>15653440
Get the Gatsby pillow.

>> No.15653593

>>15653440
Get the book that says GREAT it might be pretty good

>> No.15653660

>>15653440
Kek I’ve been there before. I still have a little scorpion paperweight that my mom bought for me from that airport when I was a toddler. I’ve had it for almost 20 years now. Last time I was in AZ I tried finding another one to compliment it but I don’t think they sell them anymore

>> No.15654011

>>15653397
Because airports didnt exist in 10th century England

>> No.15654028

i'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of an irishman translating an anglo-saxon work

>> No.15654042

>>15654011
gigabrain

>> No.15654094

>>15653397
I think books were quite expensive at that time.

>> No.15654114
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15654114

>>15654028
he's fuckin smug about it in the intro too

>> No.15654134
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15654134

>>15654028
chill, mo chara, he's only bringing the literature home

>> No.15654172

>>15653509
It's only 'english' because of the language; it's not a chronicle of England at all. Like anon >>15653533 said, Beowulf was a geat, and the king whose court he finds himself in was a dane in Denmark.

>> No.15654186

>>15654172
>Beowulf
>Hamlet
Are there any other great English works about Scandinavians?

>> No.15654190

>>15653509
What an abominable post, literally everything you said is wrong
Ignore this shit anons

>> No.15654237

>>15653397
>how do we know this wasn't the equivalent of airport trash?
This is why I no longer cry over the burning of the Library of Alexandria. It was probably mostly garbage.
>inb4 COPE

>> No.15654431
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15654431

>>15653397
how does he see through the chainmail?

>> No.15654466

who would win in a fight, beowulf or gilgamesh

>> No.15654500

>>15654431
That's the back of his head.

>> No.15654523

>>15654186
Not sure. It seems to me that much of the connection between England and Scandinavia was lost after the Norman conquests and England's main foil became France. Nowadays, it is easy to forget that both the angles, saxons and jutes who made up the "Anglo-Saxon" were all from the same general and part of the same group as those who'd become swedes, norwegians, and danes.

>> No.15654538

>>15654237
Most likely! Just like the deleting of Exhentai was mostly furry porn and dick girls.

>> No.15654542

>>15654466
Gilgamesh defeated more powerful enemies, but Beowulf worked alone

>> No.15654544

>>15653408
fpbp
OP can't read well enough to judge if a book is good or not.
Never gonna make it.

>> No.15654546

>>15654466
Definitely Gilgamesh.

>> No.15654588

>>15654466
>>15654546
What about Beowulf vs Odysseus?
I'd say in a cage match Beowulf would win, but in an open environment where Odysseus could use his cunning, Odysseus would win.

>> No.15655037

>>15653397
There was no equivalent of airport trash back then.

>> No.15655445

>>15654431
I thought it was a weird hill when I first saw it

>> No.15656340
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15656340

>he hasn't read Le Morte D'Arthur

>> No.15656401

>>15654466
>>15654588
This brings me back to the batman vs spiderman threads we used to have on /b/
>spiderman if it's just a brawl, batman if he can plan ahead

>> No.15656423

>>15653397>>15653408
idk it really didnt seem all that impressive when i read it.

>> No.15656427

>>15654028
>>15654114
lmao what a little cunt

>> No.15657115

>>15656423

>> No.15658137

>>15656423
If you read the OP translation, then I can see why. That’s the “popular” version for normies.

>> No.15658149

>>15653397
What do zoom zooms force themselves to understand the world through meme false equivalencies?

>> No.15658161

>>15654114
The Irish are fucking unbearable when it comes to having a chip on their shoulder.

This is just embarrassing.

>> No.15658166
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15658166

>reading the Heaneywuld
I hope you newfags don't seriously do this.

>> No.15658175

>>15654114
what about the part where Heany self-proclaims he's a "great poet"?

>> No.15658511

>>15654172
>>15654523
The Norse seemed to recognise Anglo-saxon/Old English as the same language as theirs and not recognise Old High German as such. To do so they must've had a broader conception of language than our more political one today. Probably a purely practical one: 'can I understand this speech, with some intuitive adjustment/familiarity, or not?'.

>>15653397
Here's what I think:
>Long oral poem composed when Scandinavia was still in living memory for the once-migratory Anglo-saxon tribes. Possibly old enough to be composed IN Scandinavia or drawn from other stories/poems that were at least. Still connected to Scandinavia through trade and politics.
>Perhaps many versions derive from this as it is retold, or perhaps it itself is merely a branch of versions of something much older being recomposed and the language updated. This is not unlike folk songs.
>A monk decides to write it down in some empty space of another book, either condenses it himself (through recomposition), leaves out bits, or uses a version that was already condensed. It's possible this was a copy of another written version but given the timeframe it's most likely an original written version.

>> No.15659782

>>15656340
I did not but what it have to do with Beowulf?

>> No.15659807

>>15654466
>>15654588
What about Beowulf vs Sigudr (whatever version of his name you prefer)? I would say prime Beowulf would defeat Sigudr, but older will probably lose.

>> No.15659830

>>15653397
Great cover.

>> No.15659959

>>15653440
The last time I bought books at an airport it was Sense and Sensibility, To Have and Have Not, and Robinson Crusoe.

Airport security isnt forcing you to buy inoffensive contemporary fiction or Michelle Obama books

>> No.15659971

>>15653397
It didn’t just survive by chance, moron. Any Old English we have today has been safeguarded for generations precisely for its value as a text.

>> No.15660220

>>15654523
>>15658511
Generally Germanic peoples seemed to have far reaching correspondence before christianity, the Edda has many stories about king Theoderic and the Goths and Huns, runestones mention them and there is much Roman treasure in Scandinavia seemingly from people travelling south and working as mercenaries.

>> No.15660230

>>15654114
um yeah, think I'll go with the Tolkien translation instead

>> No.15660277
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15660277

Is this one good or not?

>> No.15660282

>>15658511
Also, language change necessitates recomposition especially phonological change. It is a poem after all. And of course fashions fade and a construction or word use may sound uncool.

>> No.15660285

Hercules or Thor?

This is a serious question.

>> No.15660444

>>15659959
That’s a really nice mix of holiday books

>> No.15660658

>>15660285
Thor and it's not even close

>> No.15660828

>>15653509
Beowulf has nothing to do with England.

>> No.15660849
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15660849

>>15660828
say it to me face

>> No.15660863

Because popular/mass culture as we know it today didn’t exist back then.
Not to mention that we only found ONE manuscript, while the more popular epics of the Middle Ages have manuscripts numbering in the 10s and 20s.

>> No.15660868

>>15653397
esquesque

>> No.15660871

>>15660277
It's not the best, Tolkein himself admitted later that he was too young and inexperienced to give it justice. Happily its worth buying for 'the Monsters and the Critics' essay which is probably the best 20th-century essay on the poem.

>> No.15660897

>>15653542
According to this (https://deathtofanatics.wordpress.com/2019/04/07/christianity-and-paganism-in-beowulf/)) there is a little more than mere religious fitra in Beowulf

>> No.15660972

>>15660849
it doesn't have anything to do with England.
it has more to do with nedderlands or Denmark than England.

>> No.15661410

>>15656423
It must be noted that you are retarded

>> No.15661415

>>15660277
Better than Heaney, yes. Much, much better.

>> No.15661419

>>15660285
Hercules is kino and peak manly. Thor is just some faggot with a gay working tool.

>> No.15661426

>>15660972
>nedderlands
lol no

>> No.15662607

>>15661415
I doubt you've read either

>> No.15663168

>>15654523
also being accomplished sailors meant that the north sea was more of a highway than a barrier

>> No.15663869

>>15660285
Thor is literal crossdresser, goatfucker and a retard. I wish I was kidding.

>> No.15663946

>>15663869
>literal crossdresser
You say that as if it's part of his character and not something he does reluctantly in a saga that plays it as a joke.

>> No.15664463

>>15663869
Doesn't Odin crossdress more to practice Seor?