/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15647360]

I am a Marxist,
Recommend books that ‘debunk Marxism’ and prove it to be bullshit.

[Anonymous No.15647378]

>>15647360
sure you are buddy. now back to /pol/ with you

[Anonymous No.15647385]

>>15647360
basic economics

[Anonymous No.15647410]

[Anonymous No.15647466]

>>15647360
the bible

[Anonymous No.15647507]

I don't know if OP is trolling or not but iirc this is what influenced Nick Land. I can't personally speak on its contents though

[Anonymous No.15647531]

>>15647360
The State and Revolution, Revolutionary Suicide, and On Contradiction.

[Anonymous No.15647539]

>>15647378
Shalom shill

[Anonymous No.15647745]

>>15647410
Left can’t meme

[Anonymous No.15647752]

>>15647385
you've haven't read marx or basic economics you loser

[Anonymous No.15647775]

>>15647466
Matthew 19:24

[Anonymous No.15647776]

>>15647752
How many shekels do you want for supporting marx my fellow semite.

[Anonymous No.15647782]

>>15647360
How can you look at that image and want to be associated with those people?

[Anonymous No.15647791]

Debunk the conquest of bread for me op

[Anonymous No.15647879]

>>15647360
I had a uni class with the person second from the top left. Indian looking girl. She wore that medal to class, I don’t think she started the semester with the medal but it was something she adopted later. She also didn’t know how to pull up her jeans and the crack of her ass would be visible while she sat for the whole class to bare witness to (she sat in the front). This happened more than once. I don’t know her name. I went to the University of Florida

[Anonymous No.15647908]

>>15647378
Based fpbposter

[Anonymous No.15648225]

>>15647360
Economic calculation problem

[Anonymous No.15648246]

>>15647360
Marxist here as well. Most books can't really debunk Marxism

[Anonymous No.15648264]

Just read some evolutionary psychology and figure out for yourself if it would align well with human nature

[Anonymous No.15648285]

>>15647360
Foucault

[Anonymous No.15648306]

>>15647360
Read these.

[Anonymous No.15648346]

>>15648264
Good satire

[Anonymous No.15648440]

>>15648346
Also curious what sort of male partners would be selected as more desireable in the utopian Marxist society, as in when corporative competition is obsolete as an arbiter, and what sort of offspring would come as a consequence. I personally have no idea

[Anonymous No.15648472]

>>15648440
tall pretty men probably. personally i dont see the problem

[Anonymous No.15648474]

>>15647360
This picture alone disproves marxism

[Anonymous No.15648496]

>>15647410
tbf this guy wouldn't look that bad if he got a chin implant

[Anonymous No.15648497]

>>15647360
This debunks Marxism, forever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL470fJMi7w

[Anonymous No.15648498]

>>15648474
>some ugly people are Marxists therefore Marxism is wrong
shit argument.

[Anonymous No.15648538]

>>15648498
Their only argument

[Anonymous No.15648553]

>>15647782
But the Marxists on this board ARE those people, anon.

[Anonymous No.15648579]

>>15647360
Just read any economics textbook.

Mankiw is the most popular one.

Marxism is fake economics. It's pseudoscience. As for the philosophical aspects of it, well, you can have any philosophy you want and make as many arguments you want for it - 2000 years later Christians still keep making arguments for the existence of God and nothing will convince them otherwise, so it doesn't really matter.

But, scientifically speaking, Marxism doesn't work and is refuted by the empirical evidence.

[Anonymous No.15648613]

>>15647360
You’re not a Marxist.

Nobody is a Marxist. Nobody has actually read Marx. If they tell you they did, they’re lying.

[Anonymous No.15648625]

>>15648613
Have you?

[Anonymous No.15648630]

>>15647360
Start with Janos Kornai. He was a socialist economist within the Warsaw Pact who identified the systemic problems with socialist economics first hand. A functioning economy needs transperent price signals.

[Anonymous No.15648641]

>>15648630
The Magnum Opus on socialist dysfunction.

[Anonymous No.15648645]

>>15648625
No of course I’ve never read kapital. And neither have you.

[Anonymous No.15648652]

>>15647360
Capital
the Communist Manifesto

[Anonymous No.15648673]

Reminder pic related solved Marxism and it is an utter waste of time to read any Marxist writer besides him.

[Anonymous No.15648675]

>>15647360
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.15648680]

>>15648613
>>15648625
>>15648645
Why even read it? Marxism's core is the theory of explotation which depends on the theory of labour, refuting the theory of labour is refuting all of Marx's works instantly.

[Anonymous No.15648685]

>>15648675
I'm not going back, I'm staying here. You can quit linking other boards.

[Anonymous No.15648695]

>>15647745
wounded

[Anonymous No.15648712]

Marxism has been refuted ever since

[Anonymous No.15648727]

>>15648680
No, the LTV is not an important part of the communist ideology. Barely any communist today knows what it is.

[Anonymous No.15648728]

>>15647410
>looking up pics of random people before genioplasty and pretending they hold opinions you don't like
sad

[Anonymous No.15648736]

>>15648680
>refuting the theory of labour is refuting all of Marx's works instantly.
It’s called the labor theory of value, and no it doesn’t.

[Anonymous No.15648743]

>>15648727
Communism and the reason of its existence is all about the explotation theory, therefore yes it is.

[Anonymous No.15648750]

>>15648736
Everyone knows what I'm talking about, and yes it is.

[Anonymous No.15648766]

>>15648743
If the LTV is debunked, it doesn’t even matter. That’s just a way of measuring the value of a commodity. You can be a communist and not believe in the LTV.

[Anonymous No.15648773]

>>15648766
>>15648743
Also, you know that Marx listed other ways other than labor to determine the value of a commodity right? He listed quite a few actually.

[Anonymous No.15648776]

>>15648736
>>15648766
read the early economic manuscripts you retards. LTV is implicitly or explicitly the basis of all aspects of Marxism, especially proscriptions and predictions. the fact that you don't understand it and most commie faggots have never even heard of it is merely evidence of how far your pathetic ideology has fallen.

[Anonymous No.15648789]

>>15648680
The LTV is (partially) correct though. A commodity does have an objective base value, only afterwards is subjective value added on. Even if labor doesn’t play a part in determining the base value, other things do like scarcity and use.

[Anonymous No.15648796]

>>15648766
>>15648773
>You can be a communist and not believe in the LTV.
Lmao without LTV there is no "capitalist explotation", communism wouldn't even exist without it. How can you not know this?

[Anonymous No.15648800]

>>15647360
>Phoneposter
>>>/r/eddit

>>15647378
fpbp

[Anonymous No.15648808]

>>15647360
The most level headed rebukes of Marxism
>Geoffery Hodgson - Conceptualising Capitalism
Refutes the economics without sliding into Neoliberalism.
>Bertrand De Jouvenel - On Power
>Theda Skocpol - States and Social Revolutions
>C.A. Bond - Nemesis
Refutes the political premises of Marxism.
>Jean Baudrillard - The Mirror of Production >Jean Baudrillard - Symbolic Exchange and Death
Refutes specifically the Marxist understandings of value.
>Gilles Deleuze - Difference and Repetition
Repudiates dialectics
>Oswald Spengler - Decline of the West
Refutes Marxist historiography.
>Rene Guenon - Reign of Quantity
Repudiates the materialist understanding of reality. Not a bad idea of read alongside the likes of Edward Feser who might make Guenon easier to understand.
For an interesting read which bridges the gap, go check out Alasdair MacIntyre - a Marxist Thomist.
His book After Virtue is really good

[Anonymous No.15648836]

>>15647360
Foucault, Derrida

[Anonymous No.15648853]

>>15648796
>Lmao without LTV there is no "capitalist explotation",
Not true

[Anonymous No.15648862]

>>15648789
>A commodity does have an objective base value, only afterwards is subjective value added on
So it is subjective ultimately, how can it have "an objective base value"?

[Anonymous No.15648864]

Kill yourself phoneposter.

[Anonymous No.15648874]

>>15648853
That's Marxism 101 my dude, literally look it up.

[Anonymous No.15648877]

>>15648796
>Lmao without LTV there is no "capitalist explotation", communism wouldn't even exist without it. How can you not know this?
LOL READ MOAR

[Anonymous No.15648887]

>>15648877
>LOL READ MOAR
Marxist intellectual right here.

[Anonymous No.15648896]

>>15648498
phrenology

[Anonymous No.15648903]

>>15648497
You mean proved Marxism right?

[Anonymous No.15648906]

>>15648285
>>15648836
What works of Foucault should I read?

[Anonymous No.15648916]

>>15648887
I’m not a marxist, but people who attack the LTV and think it automatically proves everything he’s ever said wrong are retarded.

The exploitation of surplus value still exists whether or not the LTV is real.
The abolition of privately owned production as well.
Classes working within their own collective interest also exists.

[Anonymous No.15648921]

>>15648903
How does it prove it right?

[Anonymous No.15648940]

>>15647745
Successful meming requires lowering yourself down to the level of an illiterate retard. Leftists have too much intellectual dignity and pride to debase themselves like that. Sad.

[Anonymous No.15648944]

>>15648853
It is true too in the original commie sense, surely you must be talking about a different sense?

[Anonymous No.15648950]

Just a friendly reminder as to who you're arguing with ITT.

[Anonymous No.15648966]

>>15648950
/lit/ Marxists are famously redditish, however, as well as peculiarly monolingual, and intellectually naive. I don't think, specially in consideration of their linguistic deficiencies, that any of our Marxists actually reads literature.

[Anonymous No.15649000]

>>15648916
>The exploitation of surplus value still exists whether or not the LTV is real.
Marx explotation theory rests on the LTV, so "surplus value" rests on the LTV.
>The abolition of privately owned production as well.
Is just an effect on believing in socialism
>Classes working within their own collective interest also exists.
"Class consciousness" is not a thing, see Mises and Kolakowski.

[Anonymous No.15649022]

>>15647360
F.A. Hayek thinks The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek does.

[Anonymous No.15649035]

>>15647782
>How can you look at that image and want to be associated with those people?
Wittingly or not, you are participating in the psy-op. There is a systematic effort underway to purge Marxists and leftists from the public discourse, and to make those who remain bow down to bourgeois identity politics and cultural degeneracy. Just in the last few days, reddit's purportedly socialist and communist subreddits have started permabanning anyone skeptical of identity politics for the crime of "class reductionism". Marxism just IS class reductionism. Any thinkers, like Adolph Reed, who go against the elite liberal consensus are being cancelled. I expect the few subreddits that still allow genuine Marxism will be quarantined or removed in short order. There was just an article in the Washington Post about how left-leaning forums like WOTB are more 'problematic' in their wrongthink than the right. It's just a matter of time. Of course, this applies to all social media platforms, not just reddit. The establishment is using the current social upheavals to shut down dissent across the board.

[Anonymous No.15649040]

>>15647360
Marx. Once you actually read him he discredits himself

[Anonymous No.15649047]

>>15648579
>Brainwashed autistic neolib bootlicker chimes in about his heckin' Mankiw textbooks
Go back.

[Anonymous No.15649059]

>>15648630
You can have price signals without private ownership of the means of production.

[Anonymous No.15649061]

>>15649035
Identity politics is fucking gay. It's so cannibalistic.

[Anonymous No.15649064]

>>15649047
Neoliberalism is the ultimate redpill.

[Anonymous No.15649068]

>>15649047
Reminder Marx was mathematically illiterate.

It's useless discussing with religious fanatics like you. Go back to your cult.

[Anonymous No.15649077]

>>15648789

> A commodity does have an objective base value
How...how can you possibly believe that?

[Anonymous No.15649088]

>>15649068
No, YOU are mathematically illiterate. Anglophone (((economics))) is a pseudo-science.

[Anonymous No.15649091]

>>15649064
Holy shit...

[Anonymous No.15649092]

>>15649000
LTV is 100% correct.

[Anonymous No.15649097]

>>15649092
And I'm Jupiter.

[Anonymous No.15649101]

>>15649097
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.15649106]

>>15649035
Do you not think that class (race/caste) are fundamental to a working order? Please explain to me how that can be overcome and what that society will look like. And don't conjure an image of rousseau primitivism.
And no I don't like class being based off money. But I find roles to be necessary to any high culture.

[Anonymous No.15649108]

>>15649101
I'm 100 % correct .

[Anonymous No.15649116]

>>15649064
You like whoever's in power and are not interested in true creation, only mere imitation.

[Anonymous No.15649123]

>>15649106
Class in the broad sense is fine. We're talking about the distinction between owners and working people. The people who collect paychecks have essentially zero political power in this country.

[Anonymous No.15649129]

>>15648579
Read Heidegger and keep your empiricism away from god.

[Anonymous No.15649145]

>>15647775
>misinterpreting the verse this hard

[Anonymous No.15649147]

>>15648579
>But, scientifically speaking, Marxism doesn't work and is refuted by the empirical evidence.
Care to cite this "empirical evidence"?
As if you ideologically brainwashed bugmen have ever cared about empirical evidence. Lol.

[Anonymous No.15649151]

>>15649123
Fair enough but so do many of their bosses.

[Anonymous No.15649156]

>>15649059
No you can't, Warsaw Pact economies tried. This is the major part of Kornai's analysis, that a socialist economy interfers with the price signal by imposing non-price adjuncts which prevent price signals from operating.

[Anonymous No.15649157]

>>15649123
Ok, what's your favorite zizek book?

[Anonymous No.15649160]

>>15649147
Kornai's study of the Eastern Bloc from within the Eastern Bloc >>15648641

[Anonymous No.15649163]

>>15648921
Highlights the pitfalls of capitalism. Someone is able to get rich doing shit like laying in a bathtub of corn chips

[Anonymous No.15649175]

>>15649147
Not him but isn't every place that adopted Marxism at its Core is a fundamental failure shithole compared to places where Marxism isn't the Core. That without taking into consideration the collapse of the USSR.

[Anonymous No.15649177]

>>15649151
Sure. To be in the ruling class you need to be clearing at least millions of dollars a year in absentee capital income alone. 'Owning' a local shop (the bank and your creditors actually own it) that you also manage doesn't cut the mustard.

[Anonymous No.15649190]

>>15649175
The USSR went from feudal backwater to putting the first satellite in space. If you agree it 'failed' because it degraded into capitalism, there's nothing to argue.

[Anonymous No.15649201]

>>15649163
I think you are either jealous or you just don't want people to enjoy things and have fun.

[Anonymous No.15649211]

>>15649201
Fuck off tranny.

[Anonymous No.15649221]

>>15649190
>The USSR went from feudal backwater to putting the first satellite in space.
Literally worthless. Specially when there is other countries doing the same and eventually beating you in achievements.
>If you agree it 'failed' because it degraded into capitalism, there's nothing to argue.
It failed because planned economies don't work.

[Anonymous No.15649228]

>>15649211
Seething.

[Anonymous No.15649231]

>>15649190
Musk is putting cars into space without the destruction of civil liberties and killing exactly zero people, wow, luxury space gay communism sure is great! literally kill yourself faggot.

[Anonymous No.15649255]

Marxists are just slaves to fag greedy jews. No one is equel and never will be. And remember bullets are for commies too.

[Anonymous No.15649259]

>>15648306
That’s a surprisingly well rounded collection.

[Anonymous No.15649262]

>>15649221
>planned economies don't work
Degree of 'central planning' has nothing to do with who owns the means of production. Under Western capitalism, industries veer closer and closer to outright monopoly every year. What do you think domination of an entire sector by one transnational corporation means if not centralized planning? Let's not forget that every corporation is itself already run top-down hierarchically like a totalitarian regime. Central planning is inevitable when capitalism is left to its own devices.

[Anonymous No.15649290]

>>15649262
So McDonald's is a planned economy? lol, either way Coporations aren't States who own the entire "means of productions"(USSR). That would be a fundamental difference.

[Anonymous No.15649306]

>>15649290
>So McDonald's is a planned economy?
Are you joking? The franchisees can't go rogue and start selling homemade chicken sandwiches to meet the local market demand. Everything is decided in a centralized manner from the top.

[Anonymous No.15649337]

>>15647360
Any history book

[Anonymous No.15649342]

Why would you want to live in a Marxist state? Unless you're an unemployable bum I cant see having all your choices decided by central planners to be an upgrade

[Anonymous No.15649345]

>>15649342
Degree of 'central planning' has nothing to do with who owns the means of production.

[Anonymous No.15649350]

>>15649342
>working person
>unemployable bum
Pick one, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15649362]

>>15649350
My point is that unless you live in poverty why would you want to live in a communist state

[Anonymous No.15649364]

>>15649362
Because you're a working person who wants to keep what he earns?

[Anonymous No.15649376]

>>15648306
if what this what this graphic states is true, it is resounding evidence, amongst much, of the West's (i.e. Europeanism) exceptionalism in cultural and intellectual influence. Could you ever imagine a Western leader reading so much chag works at the cost of his own's race's output?

on second thought though, i suppose this could be propaganda. from what I understand one of China's big goals in their messaging to the West is that Chinese culture is highly compatible with the West's. Convincing the pseuds of the West of Xi's erudition in Western literature is a fine tactic to that end.

[Anonymous No.15649380]

>>15649306
I think you are confusing physical planning(socialism) and financial planning which aren't the same thing.

[Anonymous No.15649385]

>>15649177
Yea true, any books you would recommend?

[Anonymous No.15649389]

>>15649380
The fuck are you trying to say? The boss will physically remove you from the premises if you don't follow orders. All control and decision-making flows from the top.

[Anonymous No.15649413]

>>15649389
>The boss will physically remove you from the premises if you don't follow orders. All control and decision-making flows from the top.
Yeah businesses work in regard hierarchy, there is always someone who knows what's best for the business, usually the most experienced (people at the top). What I fail to understand is how is this compared to a totalitarian regime which you said earlier, in a totalitarian regime you have no choice but to follow orders, in a private business you can fuck off out of it any time you want.

[Anonymous No.15649453]

>>15648306

>in recent years, president xi jinping has talked about books on multiple occations

lmao, wow he sounds so LITERATE

[Anonymous No.15649494]

>>15649413
>in a totalitarian regime you have no choice but to follow orders, in a private business you can fuck off out of it any time you want.
The difference is not as great as you might assume. In any case, the topic is Central Planning not totalitarian regimes in general. There is no question that corporations operate according to top-down centralized planning principles.

[Anonymous No.15649575]

marxism is a pseudoscience (viz. Karl Popper) as it is unfalsifiable, and therefore cannot be debunked.

[Anonymous No.15649594]

>Prove it to be bullshit

[Anonymous No.15650189]

>>15649380
>physical planning(socialism) and financial planning
what the fuck are you just making things up now?

[Anonymous No.15650903]

>>15647360
There are a couple of problems with this, one is that Marxism is not just economic policies, it is world view. With ideas like the base and super structure, it proposes ideas about what humans are like and how power dynamics behave. The economics have not been debunked, as much as it shown the intutive; command economies are very good at building large infrastructure projects, and less good at things that favor emergent order.

The ideas about power and what humans are like is much easier, here the ideas vary from plausible, to insane and stupid.

A very good example would be their view of human nature, its plasticity and how it can be measured. Both nazis and commies got it completely wrong by denying IQ. Psychometrics is one of the few valid fields in psychology, and IQ experiments are the only things as higly verifiable and with the same predictive power as experiments in physics and math.

If you want to learn more about this you could look up a book by Arthur Jensen, but I think going through a couple of videos by the Alternative Hypothesis/Ryan Faulk or Sean Last on youtube would be better for what you want.

[Anonymous No.15650909]

>>15647360
I liked "The Managerial Revolution".

[Anonymous No.15650915]

>>15648940
Sense of humour is correlated with intelligence.

[Anonymous No.15650921]

>>15648796
You can be a communist because you like other things about

[Anonymous No.15650926]

>>15647879
that fucking paper mache hammer is ridiculous. did she smell too?

[Anonymous No.15650982]

>>15648306
>Trump literally asked if Finland was a part of Russia
>Meanwhile Xi

I, for once, welcome our chinese overlords

[Anonymous No.15650991]

>>15648306
As a economist, I'm a little contradicted. While I think all those books are most of the modern basics and everyone should read them...that's all they are. It feels like a copy-paste of some college required material rather than works someone interested in the matter has read.
The true masterpiece of Adam Smith isn't Wealth of Nations but his Theory of Moral Sentiments.

[Anonymous No.15651012]

>>15648728
this is what twitter does anon

[Anonymous No.15651024]

>>15650915
Indeed. Whether you prefer Adam Sandler or Evelyn Waugh is a good indication of your overall intelligence level.

[Anonymous No.15651066]

>>15647879
>bare witness