/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15628733]

I've recently taken an interest in the decline of religion beyond basic assertions that religiosity began declining with the rise of science, and I'd like some book recommendations on the topic. I've been wondering if societies advance to a certain point where they simply do not need religion anymore, or if the decline of religion is what causes societies themselves to decline. Are there any books that discuss the rise and fall of religions and the sociological ramifications of this?

[Anonymous No.15628736]

Research ontotheology

[Anonymous No.15628752]

That depends on what religion you’re talking about. What you’re referring to seems to apply mostly to Abrahamic religion

[Anonymous No.15628767]

>>15628752
As a Westerner, I'm definitely thinking of Christianity first. However, there are instances in the East where religions gained and lost both political power and influence, so I imagine a book on this sort of subject would draw heavily from those examples.

[Anonymous No.15628777]

>>15628736
Why?

[Anonymous No.15628836]

le

[Anonymous No.15628871]

>>15628733
The traditional way we assert religion could be declining. But i think it's being substituted by how common fiction is today. The emperor of Constantinople famously defaced depictions of jesus because the illustrations themselves were being more praised then ideology of the bible. Imagine tumbler girls praising and depicting characters in a video game without having played it, just being in the fandom is enough for them. (Undertale).

I dont know if it's an "official" term, but look up Magic circle. I red about it some time ago and understood that people have "magic circles" everywhere. It's just a matter of question if you want to be in that circle and not this.

[Anonymous No.15628889]

>>15628871
The way people direct their mental energies, in this case the direction of whatever drives man towards religion towards other myths, is an interesting topic. But I'm mostly talking about things on a societal level. I'm interested in why they decline and the the affects are of religions declining. Group psychology, not individual psychology; though, there are often strong parallels between the two.

>>15628836
I'm not an atheist. I'm /x/-tier.

[Anonymous No.15628900]

>>15628733
religion was entertainment, basic law. now you have constitution, TV, Hollywood, computer games.

[Anonymous No.15628922]

>>15628889
Yeah i was on the fence if it was on topic, just had it in my head recently and saw an opportunity.

[Anonymous No.15628934]

>>15628733
read mircea eliade (especially "the quest"). the fragmentation of man and rise of atheism is not an onthological process, but a historical one, eliade talks about this referring to the term "deus otiosus". nietzsche was the latest attempt at trying to put God as deus otiosus. all cultures begin with a monotheistic worship that devolves into pagan, agricultural, deities as they develop. The creator becomes 'deus otiosus'

you can also read the sociologist pitirim sorokin, he talks about the cyclical cosmovisions that occur throughout history (materialistic, religious and mixed)

you might also want to read guenon's reign of quantity

[Anonymous No.15628980]

i'll leave the titles:
>The Quest: History and Meaning in Religion - Mircea Eliade (then read his The Sacred and Profane)

>does the decline of religiosity leads to the fall of a civilization?
yes
>The Crisis of Our Age - Pitirim Sorokin
>The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times - René Guénon
>Crossroads of Science & Mysticism: On the Cultural-Historical Place and Premises of the Christian World-Understanding - Pavel Florensky

[Anonymous No.15629035]

>>15628733
Gravity's Rainbow

[Anonymous No.15629114]

>>15628934
>>15628980
Great suggestions, thank you. Speaking of Guenon (pbuh), I wonder if Spengler talks about religion in the lifecycle of civilizations.

>>15628922
I liked your post. It's pleasant how threads on /lit/ can both be about books and a discussion of a particular topic.

[Anonymous No.15630335]

The concept of "religion" is so broad and so pointless to even discuss if you do not qualify it further.

Taken as a basic sociological category, it is impossible for a society to be complete anti-religious. There is always some sort of broad eschatological goal, a relationship (though not necessarily a dichotomy ) of good and evil, some sort of hero / saint figure, and some sort of guiding pseudo-theological principle (power, love, progress, detachment, purity, etc) through any society.

If you mean just the fall of religion as the outward practice of traditions that were historically valued (Christianity, as your picture implies) then that is a totally different question.

>>15628934
>>15628980
These are generally speaking, good recommendations. Eliade especially.

[Anonymous No.15630369]

The world is not becoming "less religious", US Imperialism just means that more people are converting to its state religion, Liberalism. Saying your religion isn't a religion doesn't make it not a religion, literally every religion does this.

Fish don't see the water they swim in.

[Anonymous No.15630393]

Religion as we typically understand it may be declining, but I don't think religiosity is. Now instead of trying to get into heaven, the fanatics are trying to be remembered on the "right side of history."

[Anonymous No.15630477]

>>15628733
In the west there are two atheisms on the rise. The nu-atheism is popular in Protestant countries and seems to be based (in its own mind) on a scientific logical positivism.

In catholic nations you have a Marxist based atheism with less concern about science.

Obviously in Russia you have a growing resurgence of orthodoxy where the numbers are back up to 70% or so, and the relgiousity (do you go to church) is also climbing.

In the west things are stuck.

In my esteemed opinion the Protestant/ nu-atheist clash is more to do with retards playing fashion than an intellectual growth despite what the atheists would have you belive. The sublime used to keep religion held in high regard. The rituals and mystery of it all kept people interested. Now science has the sublime with the rockets and weapons and phones and so the dumb masses fall for this idea (Jewish by coincidence) that science and religion are incompatible and opt for the spectacular and ‘intelligent’ science despite the average retard knowing little about science, it’s philosophy, or logic or really much at all except space is cool and makes their phones work.

There’s not a solid core world view or understanding to this new religion.

Every time the Protestant Churches resound by ‘modernizing’ it only makes them look like less of an authority.

I can’t speak to the catholic/Marxist dichotomy but I suspect it’s simply deeply rooted in family political history. In a country like Spain the left has long battled it out with Catholics for control and as a result Christianity is just too boogie for the Marxist which is kind of a religion in itself.

[Anonymous No.15630484]

>>15630393
Very true. If they sin the global warming will send hurricanes, just be a good person bro, means do what you want. Etc. they even have original sin of racism

[Anonymous No.15630530]

>>15630477
Also I’ll follow up. Catholicism was a spiritual authority that United classes into one group. Marxism is materialistic and focused on abolishing classes and it’s necessary that borders and religion be a thing of the past in order for workers to identify as a proletarian first and act in his interests as a proletarian and not a catholic or a Spaniard or whatever.

This was the goal of Marxist propaganda and machinations but the working class is dead and the Marxist states are gone so you only see a mind fucked population following the orders of a ghost non existent entity working for aims that there is no institution or real world population to unite.

Basically it’s like ‘god is dead’ for Marxists too. There’s no working class and no United soviet to lead them. You jsut have brain dead losers who are lost in the mix of those ideas and have no use for them anymore. They’re meaningless ideas and phrases and goals but they’re so present and infected in society they still move people even if it’s to meaningless action and undefinable goals.

[Anonymous No.15632319]

It's about ritual.

[Anonymous No.15633642]

>>15630477
Marxism seems to be a natural political spin-off from Catholic thinking e.g respect to authority, centralism over federalism, disdain to industriousness, and pure capitalism.
In fact, in LATAM a lot of priests were far-left activists during the Juntas.

However, Spain's dilemma is deeply rooted in the Civil War where communists went hard against the Church. They killed priests and nuns trying to tear down the systems of power in Monarchic Spain. Because of this, Catholics tend to be anti-Marxists there but not necessarily pro-Franco (the fascist dictator who overthrew the communists). Spain's first president of the democracy was a member of the Opus Dei, after all.