/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15609505]

How is that Spain, one of the major nations of Europe historically, has such a scarcity of contributions to ‘European literature’, that is books that would be considered influential across the entire continent and the world?

With the exception of Cervantes which Spanish writer has had a universal influence? Am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.15609554]

>>15609505
You aren't missing anything. Spain did accomplish quite a lot in theology at Salamanca though. You hear quite a lot of Church Fathers cite a theologian by the name of Suarez.

For some countries you are better off looking at other fields. For example Spain at least has Cervantes but the Netherlands have nobody. On the other hand Dutch and Flemish painting is among the best. Spain also produced some amazing art that is relatively underrated compared to the Low Countries and Italy.

Even Germany, with the exception of Goethe, is only known for its philosophy as far as literature is concerned. No countries really match England, France, and America in literary production.

[Anonymous No.15609565]

>>15609554
>Even Germany, with the exception of Goethe, is only known for its philosophy as far as literature is concerned
And Schiller, and Hesse, and Mann, and Parzival, and the Nibelungenlied, and Holderlin, and Novalis, and Hoffmann, and Grass, etc.etc.etc.

[Anonymous No.15609580]

Spanish art focused much on painting and was heavily encouraged by the Crown. Their writing also didn't opt for the fiction side of writing or even enlightenment philosophy and just chose to write about the Catholic Church and by the time the world moved away from Christian philosophy they were forgotten. Spanish culture at the time these grand writings also was focused on pillaging the fuck out of South America.

[Anonymous No.15609589]

>>15609505
This would be self-evident if you'd ever visited Spain or interacted with Spaniards.

[Anonymous No.15609618]

>>15609565
All of those writers are second-rate compared to novelists and poets in English and French. They have had hardly any influence at all outside of their little German bubble.

[Anonymous No.15609667]

>>15609618
The Parzival really isn't, arguably the Nibelungenlied isn't, Holderlin and Novalis are roughly on the same level as the bulk of the French and English romantic poets.
Keep in mind that literary culture are to some extent parochial and that besides English and French-speaking literary sphere have been stroking each other's dick for a couple centuries. Ultimately it's all about economic, demographic and politic relevance. In any country where those are established, as long as there is an already present literary culture, literary relevance will follow.

[Anonymous No.15609688]

>>15609667
I acknowledged German philosophy is indispensable. However we can live without the great bulk of other German literary productions besides Goethe. That basically puts German literature third after British/American literature and French. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Anonymous No.15609689]

>>15609505
I personally liked Rosalia de Castro(my favorite female author) , Quevedo(Cervantez rival in his time) and Juan Ramón Jiménez.Just read authors of the golden century or the Spanish romanticists if you want more classic works.

[Anonymous No.15609698]

>>15609580
How did the waffle man from Malcolm in the Middle become a Mexican meme?

[Anonymous No.15609701]

>>15609618

Schiller is hugely influential among cultured political types. Hesse and Mann are some of the most read authors read by modern people, and are overall better than well read Anglos like Hardy or Kipling. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.15609709]

>>15609688
What has been so wide reaching and influential from English lit besides Shakespeare and from French lit besides maybe Balzac?

[Anonymous No.15609715]

>>15609618
Is this what burger education looks like? Imagine unironically saying either Mann or Eschenbach is second-rate with a straight face lmao

[Anonymous No.15609727]

>>15609709
Modern fiction is more influenced in specific technique by Balzac and Hugo than it is by Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.15609731]

>>15609688
We can also live without reading literature quite frankly (I wouldn't do it but it's possible). I think you simply have a too narrowly (or perhaps too arbitrarily) defined view of what is really important in literature. The list of 'universal' writers can be very short, I've even heard some say that after the ancients, only Shakespeare and Dante matter. In a way that makes sense, but if you use a definition of importance that includes many French and English writers, I think that definition would also allow for the German quoted in >>15609565 with the possible exception of Grass.
Clearly it's not that easy to define, it depends on where you put the center and the boundaries.

[Anonymous No.15609744]

>>15609727
What about Joyce? Hamsun? Beckett? Did the modernists just not happen in your universe?

[Anonymous No.15609758]

>>15609744
I was responding to his meme namedropping of Shakespeare.

[Anonymous No.15609765]

>>15609565
Much of these are memes. If we are going for that standarts Spain wins over.

[Anonymous No.15609778]

>>15609765
Your life is a meme

[Anonymous No.15609784]

>>15609778
Read more.

[Anonymous No.15609791]

>>15609784
What Spaniards besides Cervantes are as important as any of the writers I listed?

[Anonymous No.15609806]

>>15609791
Which writers did you list?

[Anonymous No.15609807]

>>15609791
KEK illiterates are pure luls

[Anonymous No.15609808]

>>15609709
There are no poets more modern and original than Whitman and Baudelaire. The novel was invented and refined by the British and the French. Germans worked in the shadow of these pioneers. However Germans were more innovative and original in philosophy. As for theater, most of that is garbage no matter what language you read it in so I won't comment.

My comments above are only relevant to modern literature. But as for medieval, the best productions were Italian and in Classics obviously the Romans and Greeks. Carrying the philosophical torch from the Ancients is nothing to laugh at.

You guys have your cars but your food is terrible. Chill out; you can't have it all.

[Anonymous No.15609809]

Jorge Manrique:
Coplas
Fernando de Rojas:
La Celestina
Lazarillo de Tormes
Francisco de Quevedo:
Visions
Satirical Letter of Censure
Fray Luis de León:
Poems
St. John of the Cross:
Poems
Luis de Góngora:
Sonnets
Soledades
Miguel de Cervantes:
Don Quixote
Exemplary Stories
Lope de Vega:
La Dorotea
Fuente Ovejuna
Lost in a Mirror
The Knight of Olmedo
Tirso de Molina:
The Trickster of Seville
Pedro Calderón de la Barca:
Life is a Dream
The Mayor of Zalamea
The Mighty Magician
The Doctor of His Own Honor
Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz:
Poems

from Bloom's Western Canon

>>15609618
Fucking lmao, *nglo "culture" strikes again

[Anonymous No.15609824]

German literature and philosophy is overrated. Germans make systems but they will never understand life.

[Anonymous No.15609830]

>>15609806
>>15609565

[Anonymous No.15609832]

>>15609809
Nigger read the authors and judge from that, don't just dump a barely thought out list from a big fat snob. If anything you're proving OP, since among those, only Cervantes and John of the Cross really matter.

[Anonymous No.15609838]

>>15609809
Nobody knows who wrote Lazarillo de Tormes
>>15609505
The based Baltasar Gracian, OP. He influenced schopenhauer and Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.15609849]

>>15609731
I agree with that comment that the world can be divided between Shakespeare and Dante; however if you look at modern literary trends certainly English and French language authors lead the way. I'm not necessarily dismissing the quality of German novels and poetry... it's more innovation that I rate literature by. Personal enjoyment is a completely different quality and while I acknowledge Whitman and Baudelaire as the fathers of modern poetry here >>15609808 I don't exactly enjoy reading them.

[Anonymous No.15609853]

>>15609808
>The novel was invented and refined by the British and the French.
Cervantes was Spanish

[Anonymous No.15609865]

>>15609838
>Nobody knows who wrote Lazarillo de Tormes
The formatting is fucked, so it ended up looking like that

>>15609832
I've read a couple. They're quite good, and they would matter if *nglos cared a bit about European literature and translated it, and were influenced by stuff beyond the most basic memes.

[Anonymous No.15609869]

>>15609853
I'm of the school of thought that the novel was invented by Richardson, not Cervantes. This is what real scholars of literature teach, not Wikipedia.

[Anonymous No.15609879]

>>15609838
This, don't forget Baltasar Gracian

[Anonymous No.15609886]

>>15609869
>This is what real scholars of literature teach
Please show me your PHd from Harvard oh great literary scholar

[Anonymous No.15609892]

Spain is tupid nigger country that only exisgst because mountains

[Anonymous No.15609898]

>>15609886
I don't need a PhD to read important books in the field of criticism. Go ahead and read this book bub: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Novel-Studies-Richardson-Fielding/dp/0520230698

[Anonymous No.15609911]

>>15609869
Depends what you mean by novel, it's a thing that evolved from middle age narratives, and from those you get the works of Cervantes and Rabelais. I doubt you'll find less than a sizable minority of literature professor who agree that Cervantes and Rabelais can be credited for inventing the novel. Depends where you draw the line, of course. You probably also can't discount the influence of chauvinism and politics in those controversies of influence.

[Anonymous No.15609924]

>>15609865
The thing is Anglos were hugely influenced by Spanish lit but stole their prestige away, and have been stealing the spotlight since. The way latter Anglos stole NA from Britain and France.

>>15609838
Gracian is pretty strong.

[Anonymous No.15609972]

>>15609849
>however if you look at modern literary trends certainly English and French language authors lead the way
Yes, and I think it has a lot to do with demography and economic influence as I said above. Geography also matters a lot.
For instance France was the center of Europe for a long time (most populated country by far, and the only country to border most of the other most important European countries). Certainly this explains a lot of the French's influence in tastes and literature. Later Germany rose to prominence but by then England and France were already firmly set in the literary landscape, and they also had the advantage of early industrialization and mass production, not only of books, but of people with the time, means and education to read books.

So it really boils down to where and when you put the center of what is interesting. Spanish and Italian literature are absolutely essential in early classical (15-18th century) European literature. From the 19th century onwards it's pretty much between France and England with Germany and Italy as background players.

Fwiw I agree with you about Baudelaire and Whitman, Baudelaire is even my favorite poet. But I think it's necessarily partial to focus on modern literature.

Or to sum up my whole post in one sentence, your answer to "what are the most important countries in literature and why" almost entirely boils down to the criteria of importance you choose, especially on what genre and what era you focus most (in your case, I guess novels and non-epic, non-dramatic poetry in the 19th and 20th centuries).

[Anonymous No.15609997]

>>15609911
I'm aware of the origins of the novel in middle age narratives. However Cervantes and Rabelais aren't a complete rupture from that style the way that the earliest English and French novelists were. They still have one foot in the Middle Ages in the same way that Shakespeare does. This is just my educated opinion, but I am glad to see someone on here who has actually read some secondary literature.

Why the novel took off so much in England and France has to do with those countries being the first modern liberal nations. That is why it took so much longer for Germans and Russians to take up literary production; they took longer to liberalize. Spain and Italy took even longer.

I am not saying this in any way to brag it's just historical fact. I personally have mixed feelings about modernity as anyone with a thinking brain should have.

[Anonymous No.15610017]

>>15609838
>Nobody knows who wrote Lazarillo de Tormes
A Spanish man, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.15610019]

>>15609972
Importance period, which has Shakespeare, a ton of Anglos, and a ton of French, but Spaniards not so much. What's this criteria you're trying to cheat with anyway?

[Anonymous No.15610025]

>>15609972
I think we are basically in agreement. The reason why I highlight novels and lyric poetry is because they are by far the most popular genres of literary production today and when people look back to older literature it's usually authors who worked in those genres. I'm not saying Germans aren't allowed to prefer Mann to Proust. But certainly Proust was more influential and widely read than Mann among the intelligentsia.

[Anonymous No.15610077]

>>15609505
Best spanish authors:
Miguel de Cervantes
Lope de Vega
Garcilaso de la Vega

Honor mentions:
Bequer
Gongora
Quevedo
Antonio Machado

[Anonymous No.15610107]

>>15609972
>Or to sum up my whole post in one sentence, your answer to "what are the most important countries in literature and why" almost entirely boils down to the criteria of importance you choose, especially on what genre and what era you focus most (in your case, I guess novels and non-epic, non-dramatic poetry in the 19th and 20th centuries).

Name Spaniards you think are underrated and why. No English novel is as important as DQ, but even Calderon was shown up by Shakespeare at his own game.

[Anonymous No.15610109]

>>15609997
>However Cervantes and Rabelais aren't a complete rupture from that style the way that the earliest English and French novelists were.
It's an argument. I mean I don't really disagree with you, I think Richardson is actually a decent candidate for a starting point of the modern European novel. My point is rather than it all hinges on what you consider a novel is. As Maupassant already argued in the preface to Pierre and Jean, it's not really an easy thing to do, and anyone with a clear answer should probably be viewed with suspicion.

>Why the novel took off so much in England and France has to do with those countries being the first modern liberal nations.
I would agree with this approach, I had a similar angle itt.

>>15610019
Importance is not clearly defined, that's what I'm saying. Importance to whom, for what purposes? Importance of sales, of quotes, of literary influence? The best we can do is agree on a few heavy-hitters like Shakespeare and discuss a galaxy of more secondary but still important writers like Baudelaire and Whitman. But besides those few heavy-hitters it's still a very context-dependent argument.

>What's this criteria you're trying to cheat with anyway?
When you assess things you usually have explicit or implicit criteria that help you do so. There's no such thing as canonical importance in literary (not in the way there are canonical objects in mathematics or canonical writings according to the Church). Even "The Western Canon" is always a controversial reconstruction on which specialist aren't going to fully agree with, barring a few uncontroversial names. So it's useful to have an explicit starting point.

It also depends on how broad you want the canon to be (do you want a select ten extremely important writers or a roster of most serious writers who are often mentioned in literary circles?).

Basically, when there is no obvious satisfying answer and no natural structure upon which you can latch, you have to deal with the fact that the answer heavily depends on the formulation of the question.

[Anonymous No.15610134]

>>15609898
>A*glos claim A*glo invented something that existed long before A*glos existed
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.15610135]

>>15610077
And Gracian, fuck

[Anonymous No.15610154]

>>15610107
Quevedo and Gongora are poets rich enough in their treatment and language as to be put on par with the famous contemporaries of Shakespeare.
Lope de Vega is a formidable writer with great variety.
Saint Jean of the Cross is one of the most important catholic mystics and one of the most sublime poets of the past 800 years. He also is a doctor of the church, so he's a very well-recognized intellectual figure.
You mention Calderon, he's also one of the major playwright of the Renaissance era.
I don't think it would be fair for any of the writers mentioned itt to be considered below, say, a Brontë or a Henry Fielding (who I very much admire by the way).

[Anonymous No.15610156]

>>15610109
>I think Richardson is actually a decent candidate for a starting point of the modern European novel.

a book that literally no one reads?

[Anonymous No.15610210]

>>15610109
>Pierre and Jean
Interesting I had never heard about Maupassant's comments in the preface. I like when novelists venture into literary theory such as Forster and James did. Occasionally there's interesting stuff. I will take a look some time.

I'm not the guy you replied to in your second reply, but I completely agree in your idea that critics have to agree on who the heavy-hitters are and trace their influence as you would a genealogical tree.

What do you think of F. R. Leavis? Sometimes I think he wears his straitjacket a little too tight but his ideas are interesting. Some of his writings were what lead me to think about literature in this way alongside the usual English lit classics such as Watts and Richard Chase (the critic not the serial killer).

[Anonymous No.15610230]

>>15610154
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I'm afraid I'm a tad tired to offer something worthwhile in return. I hope to interact with you in the future, fellow anon.

[Anonymous No.15610234]

>>15610156
Not him, but no one said Pamela was the best novel ever written. In fact Fielding wrote a satire of it soon after it was published. But there are excellent arguments by critics in favor of it being the first modern novel because of certain characteristics it has. If you don't care for literary criticism then you'll never understand why. You can go ahead and believe Spain invented the novel if it makes you happy.

[Anonymous No.15610283]

>>15609701
Schiller is only notable for having his poetry used by Beethoven.

[Anonymous No.15610312]

>>15610156
A book no one reads now.

[Anonymous No.15610329]

>>15610210
>What do you think of F. R. Leavis?
Don't know about him at all. I never studied literature past highschool (but I like reading a lot, including prefaces and occasionally critical work). I'm also no a native English speaker so I'm very rarely exposed to contemporary English-language literary academics.

[Anonymous No.15610342]

>>15610283
He was a big influence on Dostoievsky among other. He probably belong in the category of writers that are not so widely read now but who were big in their time and had a huge influence on a lot of people we still read.
In that category there is also Walter Scott, who was admired by both Goethe and Balzac.

[Anonymous No.15610510]

>>15610329
He was a critic contemporary of most of the Anglo-American modernists and wrote an interesting book putting Austen, Eliot, James, and Conrad as the core of the English novel. Interesting considering there's not a single Englishman among those four. Two women, an American, and a Pole. What country are you from? I'm American.

[Anonymous No.15612358]

>>15609688
>>15609618
>british literature
>relevant
Not even brits think this, you haven't even read a significant amount of English literature if you believe this.

[Anonymous No.15612368]

>>15612358
Like at this point, you might aswell state that George Orwell and Charles Dickens are high-brow classics and embarass yourself utterly.

[Anonymous No.15612401]

>>15609709
Stendhal, Proust, Flaubert, the latter having more influence on modern prose style than any other author.

[Anonymous No.15612409]

>>15609565
K A F K A you swine
inb4 not German

[Anonymous No.15612420]

>>15609808
>Baudelaire
??? we reading the same guy anon or are you a spic getting secondhand literary smoke from some dumb faggot?

[Anonymous No.15612423]

>>15609505
Because the Spanish, generally speaking, lack literary sense. Their psychology is better suited for visual art. Also, deep down, it is a country of corrupt and hedonistic children. They suffer intensely but superficially, which is not the stuff great literature is built from.

[Anonymous No.15612441]

>>15609849
>I agree with that comment that the world can be divided between Shakespeare and Dante
Comments like this are the surest sign that you’re an undergrad at best. Chances are you haven’t read the complete works of either, let alone enough books from the canon, to make this judgement. It’s that your opinion makes me seethe so much as I despise my past self, and the past selves of all slightly intelligent men who google more than they read, and must rebuke it at every turn. Don’t trust critics anon, even if that critic happens to be a good author or a reasonably smart man.

[Anonymous No.15612445]

>>15610107
>No English novel is as important as DQ
Demonstrably false at this point; unless you’re ready to do so gymnastics with “important.”

[Anonymous No.15612451]

>>15612368
>implying Orwell isn’t the peak of modern prose criticism
You niggas don’t read stfu

[Anonymous No.15612481]

>>15610025
This is a fair way to frame the problem I think. In terms of contemporary importance in novels and the most popular forms of poetry I don't doubt the English and French fare best, though I think the Germans are not *that* far behind. Also countries outside Europe have been rising in influence, like South America and Japan, so that changes the general picture quite a bit compared to earlier times.

>>15610510
Interesting, what's the name of the book?
I'm French, so I have the bad habit of instinctively lumping together all literature from the British Isles. Although of course I make the difference with the Americans and foreigners like Conrad and Nabokov. This statement doesn't seem so controversial either except that perhaps I would expect a 18th century English novelist to be among them.

>>15612420
It's true that Baudelaire is most responsible for the switch from Romantic to modern poetry in France, and by repercussions almost everywhere else. He is one of the defining writers of the modern age.

>>15612445
Not really sure about that, DQ is pretty huge. What English novel would you consider as important or more important?

[Anonymous No.15612515]

>>15612445
If you really think so, then name some Anglo novels you think peak over DQ, so us other anons can dismantle your shitty takes.

[Anonymous No.15612622]

>>15609618
Noone but anglos think victorian literature is good

[Anonymous No.15612729]

>>15612423
How is it even possible to reach such levels of stupidity?
Trying to psychoanalyze a whole country, jesus.

[Anonymous No.15612738]

>>15609554
>and America
>M-muh whale
Fuck off burger, you never did anything

[Anonymous No.15612744]

>>15609809
And this is considering that Bloom was basically illiterate when it came to literature in Spanish

[Anonymous No.15612761]

>>15610234
Dude the Quixote predates Pamela for over a century, and Richardson is heavily influenced by Cervantes just like pretty much every English novelist at the time was just following on Cervantes' trail

[Anonymous No.15612763]

>>15612744
Most literature departments on european universities are completely illiterate about Spanish lit. It is one of the richest european literatures, far surpassing the Italian, but barely discussed or read. And it is the fault of the Spanish themselves.

[Anonymous No.15612772]

Oh my god primito it's a thread where an *nglo says dumb *nglo things for his dumb *nglo friends in his dumb *nglo language

[Anonymous No.15612808]

>>15612729
Spend enough time here and you'll reach the same conclusion, or do you not believe that national character or cultural spirit exists? Is anyone who has ever commented on the English composure or the idea of Roman Virtue also misguided? You either don't know what I'm talking about or you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about and you're mad to hear the truth.

[Anonymous No.15612831]

>>15609580
>it's all the religion's fault!
The fact that we live in a world culturarly-dominated by the UK and its former colonies might also have something to do about it.

[OuPi No.15612840]

>A thread about Spanish /lit/
Psche. Good luck, tío!

[Anonymous No.15612842]

Luis Cernuda - Donde habite el olvido

Donde habite el olvido,
En los vastos jardines sin aurora;
Donde yo sólo sea
Memoria de una piedra sepultada entre ortigas
Sobre la cual el viento escapa a sus insomnios.
Donde mi nombre deje
Al cuerpo que designa en brazos de los siglos,
Donde el deseo no exista.
En esa gran región donde el amor, ángel terrible,
No esconda como acero
En mi pecho su ala,
Sonriendo lleno de gracia aérea mientras crece el tormento.
Allí donde termine este afán que exige un dueño a imagen suya,
Sometiendo a otra vida su vida,
Sin más horizonte que otros ojos frente a frente.
Donde penas y dichas no sean más que nombres,
Cielo y tierra nativos en torno de un recuerdo;
Donde al fin quede libre sin saberlo yo mismo,
Disuelto en niebla, ausencia,
Ausencia leve como carne de niño.
Allá, allá lejos;
Donde habite el olvido.

[Anonymous No.15612986]

I don't even know why /lit/ keeps using the influence meme as the main criteria to evaluate the literature of certain nation, like if the amount of "big names" known by everyone and his mother constituted and quantified all of such country's literary value and quality. Shouldn't we instead research in depth in strive for hidden gems or works that are only known by natives in order to not dogmatically omit their tradition? And I say this for any country, since we are missing tons of great works of art just because their names do not appear in some superficial top 100 chart. In case of Spain, there is a shit ton of movements with their own philosophy like the Siglo de Oro, the Generation of '98 or the Generation of '27, which are worth studying and have not even been mentioned in a Spanish lit thread.

[Anonymous No.15613008]

>>15609689
Quevedo was not Cervantes rival.
Quevedo had beef with Góngora and Cervantes often insulted Lope de Vega.

[Anonymous No.15613158]

>>15612808
Yes I know exactly what you are saying and I know very well why it is bullshit. Spain has produced some of the most beautiful, well crafted pieces of art in all of human history, just as every other major european nation.
English composure or roman virtue are ideals held as a nationwide standard, not depictions of the countrymen.

Spain was the peak of medieval philosophy with the Salamanca School and peoplelike Francisco Suarez. It is not very prominent because no one really cares about the Middle Age's philosphy or literature.
Some of the most profound mystics were Saint Jhon of the Cross, Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint Ignatius of Loyola, with writings so inspiring and deep that you could spend a lifetime unraveling them.
Both theatre and drama reached a peak in the Siglo de Oro and later in the twentieth century with some of the greatest poets and playwrights in the history of literature, like Gracián, Góngora, Quevedo, Lope de Vega, Tirso de Molina, Garcilaso de la Vega. And later García Lorca, the Machado brothers, Cernuda, Salinas, Aeixandre, Juan Ramón Jimenez, Rosalía de Castro, Pardo Bazán, Alberti, Gerardo Diego, etc.
Again, poetry is not read extensively in Europe because of the translation problems.

So after these examples come back telling me bullshit about how the Spanish ethos or Volksgeist or whatever stupid shit from the eighteenth century you feel like spreading is the cause of Spain's lack of representation in universal literature.

[Anonymous No.15613187]

>>15609505
The best Spanish literature is written in Andalusian Arabic

[Anonymous No.15613825]

>>15612986
As I have said earlier in this thread, influence is more important for establishing historical trends such as the rise of certain genres such as the novel or free verse in the modern era. In that regard English (I'm lumping Americans as English) and French literature are kings and everyone in the academy would agree. However certainly there are gems as you described in other languages. Any modern nation could be writing the best modern novels now that the genre has spread well beyond the Anglo-Saxon and French worlds. I don't think anyone would have expected, for example, the Latin American Boom when it happened. Who knows, there might be amazing Korean novelists we just don't know about. But when looking at the history of the development of the genre, you can't overlook the importance of literature in English and French. The same goes for modern poetry.

[Anonymous No.15613872]

>>15612409
>someone who isn't german is somehow german

[Anonymous No.15614056]

>>15613187
Spanish is already a dialect of Arabic

[Anonymous No.15614268]

>>15614056
No it isn’t

[Anonymous No.15614589]

>>15614268
Don't be racist anon, Spanish (Castilian) has a Latin core with Arabic vocabulary, it's well known. Compare it with Catalan, who is more closely related to Latin and barely has any Arabic influence apart from the most common words like alcohol.

[Anonymous No.15614652]

>>15609505
García Lorca was the best poet of the last century

[Anonymous No.15614672]

Spain has a very serious literary tradition that you can't really compare to Anglos. Yes, it's not world renown, but that's because they don't pump out shitty fantasy novels and genre shit by the thousands. You won't see an American or English publisher going out of their way to publish Spanish lit.

[Anonymous No.15614679]

i think they are above average in the arts, you are right that the only one who really really stands out is cervantes but that's pretty good already compared to the rest of EU. in the 1800 and 1900 there are a shitload of decent to very decent authors who nobody knows outside of spain because their stuff is very focused in Spain and spanish culture. I think for sure they are above average in literature, and probably in paintings but probably not in philosophy or music (although there is some, i can only name ortega y gasset and francisco tárrega)

also how has nobody in this thread mentioned Galdós yet jesus christ

[Anonymous No.15614699]

>>15609554
> Low Countries and Italy
neither spanish art nor dutch art can be even compared to italian art.
• germany = music
• france = literature
• italy = art
• britain = science

[Anonymous No.15614717]

>>15614699
you need to specify a time period

[Anonymous No.15614725]

>>15614717
476AD - 2020AD

[Anonymous No.15614732]

>>15609505
lmao can you name more than a couple of influential works of literature from a country other than your own?

Most heavy-hitting national literary traditions have maybe one or two works that are vaguely familiar to the international public - the bulk of a country's intellectual output is limited to the educated populace of those countries as well as especially knowledgeable foreigners. You're clearly neither a Spaniard nor somebody who knows much about literature, so I wouldn't expect you to know.

I'm not going to list worthwhile Hispanic works like some of the dummies in this thread. If you want an answer to your question, learn Spanish, read into Spanish history, and look into works and writers that catch your attention.

[Anonymous No.15615101]

>>15614652
His plays are also standout. Bodas de Sangre is like a contemporary greek tragedy written both in prose and verse, located in modern rural Andalusia. Its treatment of traditional tropes such as hubris and love as a force against authority may seem historically redundant but it knows how to speak to the universal updating these concepts with the avant-gardes, specially surrealism, and the usage of folklore Spanish elements, which are traits of the Generation of '27. If you are fluent in Spanish read it no doubt; I don't know to what extent it is properly translated to English so I may be kind of elitist or niche-biased with this recommendation, however, I need to share a work that honestly overwhelmed me.

[Anonymous No.15615258]

>>15614589
No