/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15594589]

>start writing
>realize i have no talent
>stop

[Anonymous No.15594592]

thank you

[Anonymous No.15594644]

Practice

[Anonymous No.15594657]

>>15594589
babies can't write because they don't know how. It will take time my friend.

[Anonymous No.15594661]

>>15594589
copy the style of writers you like

[Anonymous No.15594674]

I tried writing a ww2 novel in high-school because i was obsessed with saving private ryan
I wrote two chapters, read it and decided to never bother again

best decision i ever made

[Anonymous No.15594678]

>>15594589
>realize i have no talent
It didn't stop DFW.

[Anonymous No.15594683]

>start writing
>realize I don't want to work
>stop

[Anonymous No.15594697]

>>15594644
How? Do I just keep writing horseshit and hope it magically becomes good eventually?

[Anonymous No.15594781]

>>15594683
>start writing
>realize I'd rather crack open a beer and watch a porno
>resist the temptation
>succeed in writing the greatest masterwork in human history

[Anonymous No.15594798]

>start writing
>it's ok

[Anonymous No.15594807]

>writing
>realize I'd rather not to

[Anonymous No.15594829]

>>15594697
Nobody is going to believe in you until you believe in yourself. The greatest writers of all time did not put down the pen when they felt like their work was shit

[Anonymous No.15594831]

>>15594589
>>15594589
Literally every person who ever wrote anything started with no talent. Keep writing, friend.

[Anonymous No.15594859]

>>15594697
Read a lot too, and not just shit /lit/ recommends. Read lots of things. Good, bad, figure out why good stuff is good and bad stuff is bad.

[Anonymous No.15594938]

>>15594589
>>15594592
fpbp

>>15594661
What authors, styles and books is it a good idea to practice this on? McCarthy? Pynchon? Nabokov? The Bible? You have to be a literal (literal) genius to be able to write anything deliberately good. Most people are not even literate enough to apprehend all the literary structure on the propaganda they write on the back of the breakfast cereal box let alone good writing by the famous and loved authors the same illiterates recognize. I did this copy-your-favorite-author's-style thing for years. I did it with FUCKing david foster wallace and it's taken me years to get it out of my system. Many years and quite a bit of mental maturation later I finally (as anyone reading this undoubtedly) apprehended how embarrassingly overused, cloying and gimmicky his style is (or has become to contemporary standards (possibly due to so many people going through the very same cycle this passage is describing)). I did this copy-your-favorite-author's-style thing for years, I did it with FUCKing david foster wallace, and it's taken me years to get it out of my system. It has left me with mental scars. Copying your favorite author is a terminal mistake.

[Anonymous No.15594945]

>>15594938

[Anonymous No.15594948]

>>15594697
read a lot and just copy paste the cool phrases you read. No one actually reads so they will think you made it up. Steal from the professional sounding posters and be aware of when popular words get too popular and out you as a midwit. Like you cant say hylic anymore.

[Anonymous No.15594981]

>>15594589
who fucking cares if other people like it
they're trash, you're trash, whatever you make is trash assembled from other trash, in a world full of trash and inhabited entirely by trash

[Anonymous No.15595010]

>>15594589
what intimidates me (and maybe you too) is the idea of research. I'm autistically attempting to create an authentic world instead of a compelling story. Don't get stuck into the worldbuilding trap.

[Anonymous No.15595020]

>>15594938
pyw

[Anonymous No.15595041]

>>15594938
to be more sincere, i'm in engineering and often encounter technical writing that is extremely difficult to write and consume. some ideas and trains of thought are just menacingly complex. it disillusioned me somewhat wrt having a writing style. imo virtually all the writing you do, any personality to it that you accidentally let out (let alone deliberately install) eds up just obstructing the ideas you want to get across. it detracts from the material, pic rel.

>>15594831
not sure this is true. some people seem to have innate ability that starts out like a gem in the rough and gets refined. other people start with, like, shit

[Anonymous No.15595065]

>>15595041
> i'm in engineering and often encounter technical writing that is extremely difficult to write and consume. some ideas and trains of thought are just menacingly complex.
see >>15594927
They write that way on purpose as a form of gatekeeping. They could absolutely simplify it (in fact they go through a process of making it more complex than it is naturally) You need to figure out what the obstructionist jargon is and read past it. It's never actually as intimidating as it can appear. It's really as accessible as typical philosophy writing.

[Anonymous No.15595142]

>>15594697
I'm crap at it, so I couldn't tell you.
But I can say that when I read my earliest works, I physically cringe in disgust. But when I read what I wrote a year, a month, or a week ago, I just think it's a little bit shitty. It's improvement. One day, I'll get there.

[Anonymous No.15595161]

>>15594589
>start writing
>realize i don't actually want to write
>stop

[Anonymous No.15595276]

>>15595142
i read shit i wrote earlier in the day and cringe

[Anonymous No.15595540]

>start writing
>realize i don't actually care about the human condition or politics or anything else on this gay doomed planet so i have nothing write about
>close word, pirate a bunch of proko lessons and loomis books and start grinding to become a visual artist instead

zero regrets t.b.h., getting pretty tired fiction in general since it's basically just a sort of sophistry, like a drawn-out shitpost that tricks you into thinking it's saying anything when it's really just a wank. also writers are all fucking dweebs lol. visual art and music are the big brained chad move

[Anonymous No.15595554]

>>15595041
absolutely autistic engineer-brained post which if honed can be an interesting style :^)

[Anonymous No.15595583]

>>15594697
Do a monthly cycle something like this:
1st - 3rd : Plan a short story, in detail
4-20: Write said shorty story
21-23: review what you wrote, take notes, seek feed back
24-28: Read a book that is well regarded and interests you. Or, if your writing is truly abysmal, read a book like Elements of Style so that you can learn to follow a competent formula. You need not be a natural or have a unique voice to write successfully, and by writing something competent you've exceeded in literary capacity 999 out of a thousand people, even if you have not a hint of originality.
29-31: Set a list of things you are going to work on for the next one.
Repeat every month. If you feel down, compare recent work to old stuff to gauge progress.

[Anonymous No.15595647]

>>15594589
>can write competently
>but the tone of everything i write is completely and utterly insufferable, like it was penned by the world's most pedantic dickhead

[Anonymous No.15596051]

>start existing
>realize void
>

[Anonymous No.15596058]

I just keep thinking about the beginning and the end of my book and I have a hard time filling it in

[Anonymous No.15596068]

who needs talent when you can write crackfics lul

[Anonymous No.15596071]

>finish writing
>realize I'm a golden goose
>start looking for agents
>realize only chocolate geese get published

[Anonymous No.15596074]

>>15595647
Are you me?

[Anonymous No.15596088]

>implying you need talant to get published nowadays of all times.

Honeslty anon just write a novella, make it like 16000 words then proofread and all that and try and publish it, I guarantee you you'll get published by somebody if it has enough nihilsitc and bitter tones to it.

[Anonymous No.15596089]

>why am I not immediately good at something
This is pretty pathetic, desu.

[Anonymous No.15596091]

>>15594589
That should not be the problem. Just keep writing and make it as boring as possible.

[Anonymous No.15596093]

>>15594697
>How do I become better at playing the guitar? I just keep plucking strings until it magically sounds like a good song eventually?
yes_chad.jpg

[Anonymous No.15596120]

>>15595647
Write it in the style of a diary desu, everything sounds good and authentic as a diary desu

[Anonymous No.15596146]

>>15594589
>start writing
>realize i have no talent
>stop
if you drop step three, you'll be a good writer one day. that's the secret op

[Anonymous No.15596296]

>start writing in grade 5
>be told I have talent, poetry used for pamphlet handed out at elementsry graduation ceremony
>be told that people enjoy my poetry and writing all through high school
>people tell me to never stop writing on my yearbooks
>all the while feel a cold shadow quietly consuming my insides
>spend all mental effort trying to stop the black cancer from calcifying my meninges whole
>never develop the supposed tslent into a skill, into a craft; this society places too much weight on the individual; the children are born into a pyramid scheme they can't game
>the therapy, the drug use, the sobriety, the reconciliation, the tears, the smiling, the sun--only delays of the inevitable
>I see the reaper in the shadows
> I would call it a welcome friend were it not for the agonizing anticipation it has put me through

[Anonymous No.15596302]

>>15594697
>how do I get good at lifting weights
>do I just keep like.. working out?
bro.. you have to do it to do it.

[Anonymous No.15596315]

>stop writing my book halfway through because I think myself as a hack
>read it years later
>it's a fucking masterpiece

[Anonymous No.15596463]

>write poems
>later stop being in the mood and stop writing
>the longer I stay off writing the more guilty and depressed I feel because I see no talent or hope to be talented
>sit on it for weeks
>eventually shame and guilt subsides
>read some of the poems
>they are great
>start writing again

[Anonymous No.15596479]

>>15596315
show book anon

>>15596463
show poems anon

[Anonymous No.15596618]

>>15596315
>tfw you remember a cool thought you had but didn't write down
>it's gone forever

why?

[Anonymous No.15596636]

>>15596618
It's even worse if it's right before falling asleep and you're too tired to put it down so you try to make yourself remember to write it in the morning and when you wake up the only thing you remember is that you were supposed to write it down

[Anonymous No.15596652]

>>15596618
Dude, I had at least two of those! Another one that I did write down turned out to be dumb tho, so who knows.

[Anonymous No.15596662]

>>15595647
>Penned by
Your post is correct. kys


>>15596296
> call it a welcome friend were it not for the agonizing anticipation it has put me through
Incorrect usage of "anticipation." It's not even a close fit for a word that would go there. This is dogshit and I am sorry you ever truly believed you were a good poet. You're stupider than you think you are, and by " you" I mean the internal you the that deep down believes they have talent. You don't have talent.

[Anonymous No.15596675]

>start writing
>realize I have a lot of room for improvement
>keep writing
>feel unbridgeable elation at the act of growing creatively and being able to better elucidate my feelings

[Anonymous No.15596784]

I've got some great ideas for scenarios and have been really wanting to write short stories on them but I have no idea how to go about subtlety or symbolism. Usually symbolism flies straight over my head or I recognise it but misinterpret it. I really feel like it'd be a good way to express myself and my views on certain issues but I'm lost on how to even start with advanced techniques.

[Anonymous No.15596805]

>>15596675
This is satire right?

[Anonymous No.15596890]

>>15596805
newfig

[Anonymous No.15596902]

>>15596675
i needed this anon, i love you

[Anonymous No.15596970]

>>15594592
Good post, that's a /thread

[Anonymous No.15597019]

>>15594589
the truth: anyone can be a great writer. seriously. you just have to read enough and write enough. if you fail it's because you weren't dedicated enough; or because you valued the time of your life more so to other projects and leisures.

[Anonymous No.15597060]

Any good writing exercises? It's hard to just sit down and say "Okay, here' goes writing!" without any sort of idea or goal in mind of what I should be working on.

DFW suggested this:
>Probably the second biggest one is learning to pay attention in different ways. Not just reading a lot, but paying attention to the way the sentences are put together, the clauses are joined, the way the sentences go to make up a paragraph. Exercises as boneheaded as you take a book you really like, you read a page of it three, four times, put it down, and then try to imitate it word for word so that you can feel your own muscles trying to achieve some of the effects that the page of text you like did. If you’re like me, it will be in your failure to be able to duplicate it that you’ll actually learn what’s going on.

[Anonymous No.15597261]

>>15596296
don't worry, only by reading this self-indulgent piece of shit that made me feel nothing but contempt and hate for you i can assure you never had any talent.

[Anonymous No.15597803]

>>15596662
>>15597261
Thanks anons. I'm writing a short story where the mc is a delusional egotist and it seems like I'm on the right track with getting his mentality down based on your reactions.

[Anonymous No.15597880]

>>15594592
well said

[Anonymous No.15597886]

>>15595540
>Start drawing
>Realize it's fucking hard and even if I get good at it I have no clear direction of what to do with my skill (other than drawing porn) because I want to create stories or do visual storytelling
>Start writing
>Realize I'm shit but at least it's easier than grinding hands for hours and feeling like shit when your anime people come out all wrong and you have no idea of how to design

[Anonymous No.15597888]

>>15594697
>Woah a guitar let me try a riff
>oh shit oh god I can't play the next great american solo
>what do you mean I should practice what does that have to do with anything

retard

[Anonymous No.15597908]

>>15595647
write a comedy then and I will read it

[Anonymous No.15597930]

>>15594589
>open odt file
>close odt file

[Anonymous No.15597933]

>>15594697
You honestly expected to be good on the first tries?

[Anonymous No.15597943]

>>15596805
This is 4chan, so it's both.

[Anonymous No.15598040]

is that you george rr martin?

[Anonymous No.15598050]

>>15594697
practice a lot, read a lot, learn other languages, study grammar, pay attention to your words both in speech and writing (how you structure them), study linguistics.

good writing mostly comes from natural structure. write how you speak.

[Anonymous No.15598089]

>>15596636
Throw the whole brain away

[Anonymous No.15598132]

>>15598050
>write how you speak
You mean with regards to pacing and avoiding overly elaborate sentence structures? I can agree with that. But I wouldn't make a broad statement like "write like you speak". Speaking and writing are two different things entirely. There is a social and behavioral dimension to speaking that is absent from writing. I'd say "write as you think". Like don't go writing a heap of boring purple prose because it seems "literary".

[Anonymous No.15598146]

>>15596636
>>15596618
>>15596652
I think this is what I lack the most desu. I'm not having ideas throughout the day like I used to, even when I hit the pillow at night I'm mostly concerned with mundane shit from my life (my job, my future, relationships, etc.) instead of instinctively thinking about stories, concepts, characters. I write, but ideas start flowing when I start writing and stop flowing when I close the text file.

[Anonymous No.15598186]

>>15598146
You can try an exercise from Butler's book. Sit down with some time on a clock (say 30 minutes) close your eyes and just relax, at some point vivid images will start floating into your mind, note them down, keep going until you have 1. a character that 2. yearns for something

Now do the same thing but keep your mind centered on the character, asking yourself "why does he yearn for this" and "what (or who) is stopping him from getting it" and "what does he do to get past that". Key thing is to relax and let the answers come by themselves in the form of a stream of images, you'll know when it happens because it really feels like a dream. Make sure you record the initial impression immediately--don't get bogged down in editing because then you'll lose the image, like when you wake up from a dream and forget it within seconds.

As a side benefit, it's also incredibly relaxing and calming.

[Anonymous No.15598195]

>>15598146
>but ideas start flowing when I start writing and stop flowing when I close the text file.
Same. I don't think this is unusual. why do you think poets spoke about having a muse, or feeling like the words flowed through them rather than from them? Maybe planning something beforehand works for some people. I could never do that though.

[Anonymous No.15598212]

>>15594859
Why is good stuff good and bad stuff bad?

[Anonymous No.15598335]

>write a short story
>damn, thats pretty good
>re-read bulgakov's "young doctor's notebook"
>wish I never even tried

[Anonymous No.15598349]

>>15598212
1. Demonstrates mastery of technique
2. Personal taste

This applies to all mediums.

[Anonymous No.15598358]

>>15598335
pyw

[Anonymous No.15598382]

>>15594781
me irl

[Anonymous No.15598409]

>>15598358
I impulsively purge everything including any backup I might have in case I ever change my mind about it when im pissed at myself. I know its retarded and I probably should resist the urges but thats the way im wired. And also its all in russian anyways.

[Anonymous No.15598412]

>>15594589
come on... how do you think people get talent?

[Anonymous No.15598632]

>>15594589
>start writing
>realize i have no talent
>keep doing it because its fun

[Anonymous No.15599326]

>>15596662
What would you use instead of penned?

[Anonymous No.15599520]

>>15597886
>anime fag
>writing anything un-cringe

wew lad stick to drawing, at least artists don't have to be very smart to produce a decent product

[Anonymous No.15599747]

>Why yes, with the prose of a 3rd grader I blow your mind with the mere fact that things are happening.

>>15595010
True. I've found that telling a good story has nothing to do with knowing anything. Verisimilitude is enough. Really, avoid any situation that requires research in the first place.

[Anonymous No.15599765]

>>15594589
>start writing
>realize I have talent
>stop, like I always have in life

[Anonymous No.15599809]

>>15594938
delete this shitpost

[Anonymous No.15599814]

>>15598412
What if I want to appeal to underages and manchildren though

[Anonymous No.15599824]

>>15599814
Meant for
>>15599520

[Anonymous No.15599939]

>>15594589
Two recommendations:

1. Get Dean Wesley Smith's book Writing Into the Dark and read it every month or two (it's short)

2. Every day, take a book or story you like and type in 400-500 words. Literally type it in. Don't read it carefully. Type it fucking in. You'll learn a lot this ways seriously. Since you are starting out, you should focus on on book openings and chapter openings. Study how good authors induce depth with their openings with setting and character openings about the setting

[Anonymous No.15600076]

>>15599326
writed

[Anonymous No.15600753]

>>15594781
i still haven't made the jump from Step 2 to Step 3. maybe next year.

[Anonymous No.15600759]

>>15594781
I don't drnik

[Anonymous No.15600895]

>spent most of my university days alone in my apartment reading and writing
>any time I wasn't in class I would trawl the various uni, public, and research libraries in the metropolitan area
>filled up dozens of notebooks with notes, characters, plot lines, quotes, stray passages I would scribble just to rework later
>had multiple corkboards hung around with hundreds of small details, images which had come to me and I wanted to include, bits of dialogue I'd caught on the street, historical facts and material for scenes, chapters, character development
>take a look nowadays: I can't fucking read a single thing I wrote because my writing was literally illegible
I still look at all those notes from time to time, I still can't hardly make out a whole phrase. I comfort myself by thinking I was probably delusional back then and it's probably all/mostly shit

[Anonymous No.15601184]

>never start writing
Should I? My essays take forever. Like a classified over-redacted gov document where individual words are separated by blots and scribbles. My handwriting is so miserable I have to write and scratch out words multiple times. I also have intense analysis paralysis