/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15592545]

>lived a degenerate lifestyle
>most of his ideas were refuted
>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain

Can we just forget about this old fucker?

[Anonymous No.15592552]

>>15592545
his shit is wildly mediocre already, there's no need to straw man him

[Anonymous No.15592556]

>>15592545
I dunno, Can we??????

[Anonymous No.15592559]

Midlets are pure luls

[Anonymous No.15592565]

Marx was still fairly influential for capitalism and his sociology is still very respected. It's not his fault that his ideas were mostly used by degenerate 3rd worlders that only used the ideology of communism as a justification for their national liberation movements from x y z.

[Anonymous No.15592569]

>>15592545
>lived a degenerate lifestyle

says the neet posting in a cambodian basket weaving forum

>most of his ideas were refuted

sure thing buddy

>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice

because notoriously marx invented communism and set out clear guidelines on what communism is and how to make it

>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain

and they're as relevant as they've ever been.

[Anonymous No.15592571]

>>15592552
I'm not, his ideas are morally selfish and he was a degenerate who wasn't nice to anyone. He also stole much of his work from his fellow thinkers and didn't pay his house maid.

[Anonymous No.15592572]

he's not a philosopher and is a hylic and reductionist doofus, if you want to waste time crack open one of his horribly written poopy books

[Anonymous No.15592578]

>>15592545
You have to be 18 years old to post here

[Anonymous No.15592584]

>>15592545
Can you just piss of back to pol?
Is that really so much to ask?
That you have such a basic understanding of language?
That pol is your jerkoff fantasy about feeling superior
And /lit/ is about literature, which you will never even begin to know

[Anonymous No.15592586]

>>15592545
I'm fond of his ethnic and antisemitic slurs. "Water-Pollack Jew", for example, is excellent.

[Anonymous No.15592590]

>>15592569
The idea of communism is morally shitty and massively selfish. The idea that you are entitled to the product of someone else's labour for nothing has to be one of the most simple but retarded things that has ever come into being.

[Anonymous No.15592592]

>>15592545
Don't forget a self-declared Satanist too.

[Anonymous No.15592595]

>>15592545
I miss the days when threads about Marx were actually about his works, rather than about idiots who can't even be bothered to pretend they've read anything.

[Anonymous No.15592598]

>>15592584

[Anonymous No.15592606]

>>15592595

[Anonymous No.15592608]

>>15592590
that's not what communism is, maybe once you read a few books and realize that communism isn't everyone owns everything and everyone shares everything youll get how wrong you are right now.
communism is flawed because of its materialist standpoint degrading humans to mere animals which make decisions purely based on their surroundings and economic decisions.

[Anonymous No.15592609]

Reminder pic related solved Marxism and it is an utter waste of time to read any Marxist writer besides him.

[Anonymous No.15592610]

>>15592590
>The idea that you are entitled to the product of someone else's labour for nothing


that's what capitalism is though. Capitalism is someone (owner of the means of production) getting the product of someone else's labour (wage workers) for nothing. That product is surplus value, extracted through surplus labour.

[Anonymous No.15592618]

>>15592578

[Anonymous No.15592619]

>>15592584
i'm not going back anywhere lol

[Anonymous No.15592624]

>>15592608
>communism is flawed because of its materialist standpoint degrading humans to mere animals which make decisions purely based on their surroundings and economic decisions.

That is also the model most commonly used for economics in general. Marx also constantly said that most practical, every day human decisions are determined by superstructural factors, i.e. culture, institutions, and so on.

[Anonymous No.15592637]

>>15592618
Marx used the supply and demand model constantly, he didn't refute it. He said that supply and demand determines the price of commodities, but ultimately, the price / value fluctuates around a value depending on the labour time necessary to produce that commodity.

[Anonymous No.15592638]

>>15592598
I don't give a shit about marx, or any of your shit politics
That's the point, isn't it? That you are too fucking retarded to talk politics on the fucking board that's called fucking pol
Die you fucking scumbags

[Anonymous No.15592639]

>>15592608
Communism is when the State owns everything. And my aforementioned refutation of it destroys communists and ends them forever.

[Anonymous No.15592651]

>>15592624
Yeah I've read Marx but disagree with materialism due to my belief that human history was built with thoughts and ideas which great historical persons represented, rather than the idea that historical movements always stirred up because of material conditions.

[Anonymous No.15592653]

>>15592619
And fuck you
Read a fucking book
They have toddler versions with pretty pictures in them

[Anonymous No.15592654]

>>15592638
>Marx wrote about philosophy
>This does not belong on /lit/
Yikes!

[Anonymous No.15592658]

>>15592653
i'm currently reading the plains by gerald murnane

[Anonymous No.15592662]

>>15592639
Communism doesn't mean the state owns everything. For example, you had non communist / anti communist regimes in which the state heavily intervened in the economy, like fascist Italy, or south korea for a while.

Communism was described by Marx as a movement, not a general state of things. Communism is more of a movement and an ideal endpoint, not a defined checklist of things.

>>15592651
I'm sorry anon, but there's a reason great man history has been throughly refuted

[Anonymous No.15592664]

>>15592654
No it does not
Political shit goes on pol
Not on lit
I know spelling is hard, and reason is unfathomable to you
So fuck you

[Anonymous No.15592677]

>>15592658
So why don't you make a thread about that
And talk politics on pol
Eh?
How many fucking hurr durr marx dumbbb threads have we had?
Nothing to say about lit?

[Anonymous No.15592682]

>>15592610
>From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
This quote implies that you are entitled to free stuff just for existing. Initially it sounds flowery and Utopian but when you think about it t just begins to fall apart. It's a good idea of how not to do philosophy.

[Anonymous No.15592690]

Hey commies explain
I worked hard -saved some money up and managed to make it thanks to crypto, I took the risk with all my savings and I don’t see while I should share it with some leeches who don’t have any clue about managing their finances or how the economy works

[Anonymous No.15592691]

>>15592664
How on earth is Marx not about philosophy? I'm losing braincells just trying to comprehend what you're saying.

[Anonymous No.15592707]

>>15592691
If you don't understand the concept of literary, why the fuck are you posting on /lit/ at all?

[Anonymous No.15592713]

>>15592690
no one said that you have to share it with people, communism is literally about getting what you produce

[Anonymous No.15592714]

>>15592662
Communism, in it's most simple definition, is when the State owns everything. That's how I understand it. The State is the Utopia Marx thought of, and in practice it's the totalitarian, nasty governments of the USSR and Cambodia.

[Anonymous No.15592719]

>>15592682
It's utopian because that's what it's meant to be: an ideal endgoal of a society where labour is free and "the springs of cooperative wealth production flow abundantly.". It's literally the end goal, not a concrete policy proposal.

Also a similar generic principle has existed since the dawn of history, more or less. There's a theory Marx, when writing that slogan, was obliquely quoting the New Testament, others think he was referring to ancient Roman law. It also is the vague concept behind stuff like welfare: even if you can't work, you won't have to starve.

>>15592690
Back to /biz/, fiend

[Anonymous No.15592722]

>degenerate lifestyle
I wonder who could be behind this post

[Anonymous No.15592733]

>>15592713
>communism is literally about getting what you produce
Demonstrably false.
>>15592707
Marx wrote books on philosophy. He said 'philosophy is when you interpret the world and the point is to change it'. Probably one of the only non degenerate things he said. But still he was a philosopher and a hugely impactful one so therefore when I say he belongs on /lit/ I know what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.15592741]

>>15592714
>Communism, in it's most simple definition, is when the State owns everything.


That's not really true because as I said, you had several examples of right wing regimes in which "the State owns everything". Some communists, like marxists leninists, think that to go towards communism (which is generically defined as a classless society in which labour is free and no longer alienated) you need an intermediate phase in which the state manages the means of production directly. That's not all communists, and it's not the endgoal either, it's just a means to an end. Marx himself even advocated against stuff like protectionism in more than one occasion.

[Anonymous No.15592752]

>>15592722
https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/karl-marx-was-pretty-bad-person/
pick a paragraph, any paragraph, and see how much of a horrible person he was in real life. Not very comradely of him.

[Anonymous No.15592756]

>>15592741
why are you bothering to explain this to poltards?

[Anonymous No.15592757]

>>15592608
>degrading humans to mere animals which make decisions purely based on their surroundings and economic decisions

These two can coexist: an ontology that affirms the rationality of individuals, and a theory of history that is limited to materialist considerations and statements.

[Anonymous No.15592761]

>>15592691
philosophy is love of knowledge
marx is a materialist
materialists deny the existence of the intelligible realm pure knowledge exists in, in its perfect and whole manifestation. they confuse the reflections of forms to be reality, and thereby are trapped in the cave
marxists and any materialist, atheist or nihilist by default is anti-philosophy. they are at best very good at sophistry, i.e shadowmancy, and at worst, soulless ghouls trapped to watch the shadows forever (hylics). marx just so happens to be the pope of counter-initiation and master shadow magician

[Anonymous No.15592769]

>>15592756
I just got home from work, I can't sleep, and I don't have anything better to do.

[Anonymous No.15592800]

>>15592756
What makes you think I'm a /pol/ite? Are you jealous that a non-/pol/ite is anti communist? You shouldn't be surprised, anybody with even a basic understanding of economics, history, human nature or even human decency knows that communism is a shit idea.

[Anonymous No.15592821]

>>15592800
I'm literally a fascist dude idk what ur trying to say lol

[Anonymous No.15592828]

>>15592800

"Anti communists" constantly claim that communists are some kind of retarded degenerate goblins who can't understand history or human nature (implying that they do understand history, human nature and all of that), and yet they spend an egregious amount of time "debating" communists and leftists, constantly remarking their "understanding" of history, human nature, economics, and yada yada.

Anon, is it an inferiority complex? Are you just jealous?

[Anonymous No.15592853]

>>15592741
Philosophically speaking, communism is when the State owns everything. It's referring to where as you said communism is defined as a classless society in which labour is free and no longer alienated. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.15592860]

>>15592821
Yikes!
>>15592828
Ugh, the classic 'muh that wasn't real communismmmmmm'
>>15592761
I'd have to agree with you there.

[Anonymous No.15592867]

>>15592828
Bit of a weird question, it's interesting to debate with people who believe very different things than you. You learn potential weaknesses of your own ideas, you get a better idea of why they believe what they do, especially the differing premises.

[Anonymous No.15592871]

>>15592610
>Capitalism is someone (owner of the means of production) getting the product of someone else's labour (wage workers) for nothing
false premise

[Anonymous No.15592890]

>>15592853
In marxist "orthodoxy", a communist society is also a stateless society. Without alienated labour, there is no need for a state to enforce laws and institution that protect the alienation of labour. Thus, a communist society would have no need for a state. Simple as.

>>15592860

Why are you even posting on /lit/ if you already know you're right? Perhaps you should go play with the special kids like you on /pol/.

>>15592867

That's something fresh from a guy who said that you just need a "basic understanding of human decency" to view communism as bad. Anon, do you think all communists in history failed to have a basic understanding of human decency? People like Gramsci, Lukacs, Benjamin, Brecht, Adorno, and others?

[Anonymous No.15592895]

>>15592890
>Anon, do you think all communists in history failed to have a basic understanding of human decency? People like Gramsci, Lukacs, Benjamin, Brecht, Adorno, and others?
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15592902]

>>15592890
>Without alienated labour, there is no need for a state to enforce laws
is this a simplified meme explanation or was marx actually retarded enough to believe this

[Anonymous No.15592903]

>>15592895
Then you don't have much to learn from them, do you?

Again, you should probably reassure yourself that you're right, and go play with the other special kids like you.

[Anonymous No.15592915]

>>15592903
You're not going to get people to stop arguing with you by telling them to leave lol.

[Anonymous No.15592922]

>>15592903
Stupid gotcha question. You can learn things from people that aren’t decent

[Anonymous No.15592927]

>>15592902
It's really simplified. The more thorough reasoning would be that state is a superstructure: an institution that exists to enforce and protect a certain mode of production through laws, police, and all that. As the mode of production changes to one where the workers directly own and manage the means of production (which implies the means of production are sufficiently developed to sustain such a mode of production), in theory you don't need a state to enforce it, because it's not a system where labour is alienated.

This led to a lot of marxists (including lenin) to say that, as society approaches communism, the state will gradually "wither away" as it's no longer needed. In general though this is a really debated topic within marxism.

>>15592915
The problem is that you can't have an argument when you assume that the other side "has no basic understanding of human decency". Why debate with someone who has understanding of human decency?

Someone who says that clearly already thinks that he is right and that the other is wrong before the debate even starts. You can't have a debate in that mindset. So one might as well leave.

[Anonymous No.15592931]

>>15592890
>In marxist "orthodoxy", a communist society is also a stateless society. Without alienated labour, there is no need for a state to enforce laws and institution that protect the alienation of labour. Thus, a communist society would have no need for a state. Simple as.
When I say the 'State' owns everything, I'm referring to the classless, anarchic society. The 'State' of communism where the magical Utopia has been achieved and there is no longer any government.
>Perhaps you should go play with the special kids like you on /pol/.
Settle down, I'm just trying to debate communism.
>That's something fresh from a guy who said that you just need a "basic understanding of human decency" to view communism as bad. Anon, do you think all communists in history failed to have a basic understanding of human decency?
You can't deny how bad it is in practice Anon. Why is it that so many teary eyed romanticist communists end up as totalitarian tyrannical dictators? There's something not right there.

[Anonymous No.15592933]

>>15592609
based

[Anonymous No.15592939]

>>15592713
Damn didn't know youtube millinaires are communists examples.

[Anonymous No.15592948]

>>15592545
>>lived a degenerate lifestyle
How so?
>>most of his ideas were refuted
Which, how?
>>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
Elaborate.
>>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain
2nd point, most of his work was analysis of capitalism.
>Can we just forget about this old fucker?
No.

[Anonymous No.15592960]

>>15592618
>"I've got no idea what I'm talking about, so lemme project it on 'em"

[Anonymous No.15592965]

>>15592948
>>>lived a degenerate lifestyle
>How so?
see>>15592752

>>>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
Elaborate.
see pic related

[Anonymous No.15592977]

>>15592931
>>15592933
>Why is it that so many teary eyed romanticist communists end up as totalitarian tyrannical dictators?

And so what? Every revolutionary regime is violent, you don't need communism for that. Just look at the french revolution, or any other revolution really. Revolutionary violence is an inevitable result of previous systemic violence.

This should also tell you why communists aren't utopians. Communists are perfectly aware that the path of history is strewn with corpses: violence is everywhere, in systems, in revolutions, in wars. And like all things in history, communism will also require a significant amount of violence to happen. It's just how things are.

On when and how to apply violence, there's endless debates on. Most communists will agree that numerous times, communist regimes commited severe and unjustifiable crimes, which should be used as an occasion to reflect and attempt to do better in the future. That doesn't change the fact that the crimes committed by communism pale in comparison to the systemic and reactionary violence that is all too common in capitalism (and in history in general).

[Anonymous No.15592984]

>>15592965
Are you aware that venezuela's regime isn't even marxist?

[Anonymous No.15592989]

>>15592960
Keep /lit/ classy Anon. Keep the posts high effort.

[Anonymous No.15592994]

>>15592977
>That doesn't change the fact that the crimes committed by communism pale in comparison to the systemic and reactionary violence that is all too common in capitalism (and in history in general).
you guys would be less cringe if you stopped saying this and just went with the “hurr revolution hard acceptable losses” rhetoric

[Anonymous No.15592999]

>>15592977
>the fact that the crimes committed by communism pale in comparison to the systemic and reactionary violence that is all too common in capitalism
doubt.png

[Anonymous No.15593001]

>>15592984
So, are you saying that Venezuela isn't even real communism?

[Anonymous No.15593005]

>>15592545
you have to be over 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.15593010]

>>15592965
>muh vuvuzela
>A-FUCKING-JPG
And:
>A blog
>On MuhWesternCivilization.org

[Anonymous No.15593012]

>>15592977
I think that communism kills a lot of people much faster than any other system. We should use it to depopulate the overpopulated regions on this Earth.

[Anonymous No.15593017]

>>15592977
The biggest genocidal pricks have been communists. Over 130 million at least. Mao alone over 40 million people. Biggest destructive cult ever.

[Anonymous No.15593030]

>>15593010
Welcome to American power hours.

[Anonymous No.15593035]

>>15593001
>>15592965
The Venezuelan economy is ~70% private. Even the Singapore has a larger public sector.

[Anonymous No.15593041]

>>15593010
I couldn't care less about the thinly veiled fascist 'Western Civilisation'. It's just simple observation at this point to see that communism only brings destruction.

What did communists use before candles?

Electricity!

[Anonymous No.15593043]

>>15592984
Both Chavez and Maduro are Marxists what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.15593048]

>>15592690
>some leeches who don’t have any clue about managing their finances or how the economy works

I don't know man. What you've said truly has nothing to do with the matter of our discussion. No one could ever say how your personal finances jibe with a crude figment or fantasy of some communist government. Breathe easy: a hypothetical communism isn't going to touch your actually existing savings.

[Anonymous No.15593051]

>>15592719

>(christian) conservatives: Marx evil! Bad utopia...

Acts 2, 42-47

[Anonymous No.15593052]

>>15593010
>>muh vuvuzela
I remember the very brief period when lefties all over the world were rejoicing about Venezuela going commie, and no amount of memory-holing will ever make me forget it.

[Anonymous No.15593054]

>>15593012
the purpose of communism is to kill many useless people rapidly. neets.

[Anonymous No.15593057]

>>15593017
Cope Poltard

[Anonymous No.15593060]

>>15593017
no. responsible are scientists and engineers who invented machines, which replaced humans, mostly peasants.

[Anonymous No.15593062]

>>15593035
Venezuela ranks last in the index of economic freedom(countries) next to North korea and Cuba. Quit lying.

[Anonymous No.15593065]

>>15593051
>Acts 2, 42-47
Yeah you understand that the implications of this are to sell your property, give charitably, and establish a commune.

Rather than say 'seizing the means of production'.

[Anonymous No.15593073]

>>15593060
What. Lenin alone made more people die than 200 years of Tsars. Thanks to his war communism policies.

[Anonymous No.15593082]

>>15593073
you are stupid autist. lenin did not kill anyone. talk to his lawyer. stop spreading mainstream degenerate propaganda.

[Anonymous No.15593089]

>>15593012
>he cites the the black book of communism
>unironically
Every year approximately 20 million people die of preventable causes. From hunger, when there's a global surplus of food; from thirst, when both the technology and industrial capacity exists to supply water; preventable disease, to which there are cures. These deaths are avoidable, but haven't been solved due to there not being profit to be made in solving them.
Capitalism surpasses the century-long questionable toll of the Black Book very five years. Amazing, is it not!?
After all, if "people who could've been born, but didn't" can be counted as "victims of communism", surely the 20 million annual deaths I mentioned, directly caused by capitalist (dis-)incentives can easily be tolled, too.

[Anonymous No.15593098]

>>15592690
>Unironically using a TPUSA Post as your defense of capitalism

You could’ve just said you’re retarded

[Anonymous No.15593100]

>>15593089
>every death that happens in a world where capitalism exists is the fault of capitalism
>people directly murdered by communist regimes are not the fault of communism
lol

[Anonymous No.15593101]

>>15593082
He even ordered to murder prostitutes lmao

[Anonymous No.15593102]

>>15593030
I'm no American. I live on the other side of the ocean.
>>15593035
https://economics21.org/how-socialism-destroyed-venezuela
Just check this out.
I'm not an unreasonable man. Marx was right about many things and he of course probably had a genius level IQ. He predicted that one day monopolies could dominate the market and he predicted the Boom and Bust cycle. Two things which are today highly problematic. But I think if he was around today to see how awful communism is and if he could read the proofs denouncing his ideas he'd surely repudiate his ideas on communism and end any Utopian visions that he had.

[Anonymous No.15593104]

>>15593062
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_sector

[Anonymous No.15593107]

>>15593089
le per capita face

[Anonymous No.15593111]

>>15593052
Hell yeah

[Anonymous No.15593118]

>>15593100
>Nazis killed by soviets as "victims of communism"
>Soviets killed by the Nazis as "victims of communism"
>plus people who could've been born, but didn't
Great counting.
Also:
>Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"[19] and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries.[6][20]:194[21]:123

lel

[Anonymous No.15593124]

>>15593104
Yeah that means jack shit when your economy rank is Exactly the same as North Korea and Cuba
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

[Anonymous No.15593130]

>>15593118
>>15593101
>>15593073
We are here to philosophically end communism. If you want to talk history go somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.15593133]

>>15593065
true, those communes (if they existed) were eschatological motivated and not made to last.
Especially since we are talking about a pre-capitalist society

i focused on the "each according to his needs"-point. according to some christian conservatives this "marxist rule" is evil... although it is basicly copied from scripture.

[Anonymous No.15593134]

>>15593101
ordered, not killed.

[Anonymous No.15593137]

>>15592922
Whenever someone cites rhetorical devices they've got no clue what they're talking about

[Anonymous No.15593138]

>>15593130
>We are here to philosophically end communism
No we're not.

[Anonymous No.15593142]

>>15593052
Now they either enter in full denial or try to say is all because of the US sanctions, same old shit as Cuba

[Anonymous No.15593143]

>>15593124
Do you by any chance think war economies are "communist", or even "socialist"?

[Anonymous No.15593144]

>>15593137
brainlet

[Anonymous No.15593146]

>>15593134
I know. Just like Hitler.

[Anonymous No.15593148]

>>15593130
to end communism you need to end people out of job market, not in real economy sector, those who do not create value.

[Anonymous No.15593154]

>>15593133
>Especially since we are talking about a pre-capitalist society
Proto-capitalist would be a better and more accurate term.

[Anonymous No.15593159]

>>15593146
yes. millions of people wanted to kill each other, hitler was responsible for directing destructive force of hungry uneducated people.

[Anonymous No.15593162]

>>15593062
>>15593124
>he thinks "economic freedom" is synonymous with capitalism
>he doesn't know of Yugoslavia and market socialism
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.15593165]

>>15593143
I do actually. Since they happen to centralize and intervine more with the economy in times of crisis/special situations. And that's exactly what Socialism is, central planning.

[Anonymous No.15593170]

>>15593146
Godwin's Law has been achieved again! Thanks for keeping this thread high quality you nonce.
>>15593148
>to end communism you need to end people out of job market, not in real economy sector, those who do not create value.
You mean unemployment will create the communist Utopia?

[Anonymous No.15593181]

>>15593162
Look the list and tell me who has more free market the ones at the top or the bottom. Then you can actually your drooling retard mouth.

[Anonymous No.15593183]

>>15593170
communism is an opium for the masses to make them think they are victims and oppressed, not losers.

[Anonymous No.15593186]

>>15593124
>>15593162 (me)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
>ranking created in 1995 by The Heritage Foundation
>The Heritage Foundation
kekium

[Anonymous No.15593198]

Can you fucking faggots take this bullshit to /pol/

[Anonymous No.15593200]

>>15593186
Ad hominem fallacy

[Anonymous No.15593204]

>>15593165
So you unironically believe that "the more a government does, the more socialist it is"? I though it was a strawman and nobody believed in bullshit like that.

[Anonymous No.15593215]

>>15593204
government is people not in real economy sector.

[Anonymous No.15593218]

>>15593200
>don't point out that my source is a literal propaganda machine that pushes reaganomics
fallacy fallacy

[Anonymous No.15593221]

>>15593154
thanks for correcting me.
i am not a native speaker

[Anonymous No.15593225]

>>15593198
see>>15592800 and >>15592654

[Anonymous No.15593229]

Communist cucks have been successfully eradicated by CHAD liberals, keep fucking seething failures.

[Anonymous No.15593233]

>>15592890
>>15592853
>>15592741
>>15592662
>>15592639
>unironically arguing about communism, a Judaic conception
Really?
>unironically supporting it
Perhaps you deserve the same fate as those unfortunate enough to perish en masse in the Bolshevik era.

[Anonymous No.15593237]

>>15593218
>fallacy fallacy
one for you and two for me

[Anonymous No.15593242]

>>15593218
Ad infinitum

[Anonymous No.15593250]

>>15593229
Communist cucks have been successfully eradicated by communist cucks.

[Anonymous No.15593255]

>>15593250
historically accurate ngl.

[Anonymous No.15593305]

>>15593204
Read Mises Socialism book.

[Anonymous No.15593333]

If Marx lived in the modern day he would unironically and undoubtedly be a Nazbol. Ergo Nazbol is the only true form of Marxism.

[Anonymous No.15593334]

>>15593035
Big if true

[Anonymous No.15593692]

>posts in favor of communism tackle arguments in a sincere manner
>posts against communism are meme propaganda and bad faith

[Anonymous No.15593701]

>>15592608
not least, communism is flawed because of corruption

[Anonymous No.15593747]

>>15592590
>entitled to the product of someone else's labor for nothing
that's literal capitalism

[Anonymous No.15593757]

>>15592714
>That's how I understand it.
well you understand it wrong. tried reading about it?

[Anonymous No.15593760]

>>15592545
First, thanks for the publicity.
>lived a degenerate lifestyle
Wrong. Stay married, His daughters and wife loved him. Studied and wrote a lot.
>most of his ideas were refuted
By people who don't understand the concept of surplus value, and think "risk taking", justifies owning half the planet, when in fact they hardly take any "risks".
>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
Communism is not Marx's invention. It existed before Marx, exist currently for those who are capable of doing some reseaches, and will exist on the future.
>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain
He had the balls to do such a critique. You know why mainstream economists are unable to critique Capitalism? Because they are financed by big dollar think tanks, or are professor at universities which won't tolerate or publish authentic Marxists. Those who are published are tone down Marxist, who have kept some of the critique of Capitalism, but who have expurgated Marx's critique on the State, political economy or immigration.

[Anonymous No.15593780]

>>15592965
venezuela is not communism. it's state capitalism. they literally let the foreign powers extrat their oil in exchange of a few dimes.

not a single field or company is owned by its workers.

[Anonymous No.15593781]

>>15592960
good response you absolutely btfo him! posting on my subleddit, care if i tag your name on it? :)

[Anonymous No.15593793]

>>15593043
No they aren't. Chavez was a soldier and Maduro was a bus driver.

[Anonymous No.15593794]

>>15592590
>Has not read Critique of the Gotha program, 100% probability.

[Anonymous No.15593808]

>>15593794
heh yes, if only he had also read more! they just havent read all these texts. no, no, no applications or anything tangible just more of these texts. did you read the texts?

[Anonymous No.15593822]

>>15592714
>Communism
>When the State owns everything
>Marx
Sorry it was too easy. Those who have read Marx will understand.

[Anonymous No.15593839]

>>15593822
OP has never read read Marx. His only knowledge comes from Peterson and Saphiro youtube videos.

[Anonymous No.15593842]

>>15593822
le wither face

[Anonymous No.15593850]

>>15593808
> no, no, no applications or anything tangible
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2803264?seq=1
Open source and P2P (torrents), are also application of it.

[Anonymous No.15593869]

>>15593839
In a way, like a said, they are welcome. Collective consciousness only advance thought debates. Also, what these retards don't understand, is that they think we were born Marxists, or have been indoctrinated. What they completely miss, is that, many, and probably most of us, are former nationalists, who understood that Marx is not about USSR, and that nationalism is nothing more than State Capitalism. So no, we are not lagging behind them in our understanding of reality, they are lagging behind us.

[Anonymous No.15593886]

I wonder who's more indoctrinated

A marxist living a capitalist country
Or a capitalist living in a capitalist country

The answer will shock you

[Anonymous No.15593895]

>>15593886
I think most doctors are centrist

[Anonymous No.15593979]

There's only capitalism. Enterprises, businesses, competition among them. But there's no competition inside enterprise. Soviet Union was one big enterprise, one big labour camp, an autonomous colony of the West, larping as country, superpower, villain, to boost economy via cold war arms race.

[Anonymous No.15594020]

>>15592590
>The idea that you are entitled to the product of someone else's labour
literally the opposite of communism lol

[Anonymous No.15594027]

>>15594020
in communism if you don't work, you starve?

[Anonymous No.15594098]

Don't you people ever get bored of making and posting in these threads? It's just the same arguments literally every time. What is the point of this shit?

[Anonymous No.15594177]

>>15594027
in capitalism if you don't work, you starve?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » No.15594219]

>>15592545
>lived a degenerate lifestyle
The lit lifestyle is considered “degenerate” to you? What are you, Christian?
>most of his ideas were refuted In my mind
>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
Do you know how hilarious this is? Is this just a troll?

Nm. I forget about you now, OP

[Anonymous No.15594261]

>>15594027
In Critique of the Gotha Program Marx states early stages of communism are stamped with the “birthmarks” of the old society. Therefore, the worker only receives back what he gives.

[Anonymous No.15594501]

>>15592571
>didn't pay his house maid.
sounds based

[Anonymous No.15594505]

>>15593979
It's pretty obvious. But the far right of inceldom is trapped into old memes. First they are trapped into goebbels State Capitalist propaganda, 80 years after the fact, then they are trapped into Mccartyism, and even USSR propaganda ("we are communist"), decades after the fact.

[Anonymous No.15594513]

>>15594501
And fucked her, even more based.

[Anonymous No.15594523]

>>15592590
nice description of capitalism

[Anonymous No.15594528]

>>15592571
>He also stole much of his work from his fellow thinkers
He explicitly quote Adam Smith and Ricardo a lot. It's not theft if you are honest and quote the authors you base your work on.

[Anonymous No.15594546]

>>15594513
The child was taken care off by Engels. In the end, this house maid was lucky.

[Anonymous No.15594646]

>>15594177
if you don't work you starve everywhere. in soviet union prolonged unemployment was criminally prosecuted (tuneyadstvo).

[Anonymous No.15594650]

Wah wah comminism no food xD
I'm funny guys, please give me upvotes

[Anonymous No.15594667]

>>15592590
>The idea that you are entitled to the product of someone else's labour for nothing has to be one of the most simple but retarded things that has ever come into being.
LMFAO THIS ONLY CAN BE A BAIT
BRO...

[Anonymous No.15594763]

>>15592618
Nice job revealing the depth of your ineptitude and projection lmfao

[Anonymous No.15594877]

>>15592871
you're right, the capitalist allows his workers to exchange their labor for a few of the things they made while working

[Anonymous No.15594903]

>>15592902
this isn't counterintuitive, the modern nation-state isn't even that old. the first ones in europe appeared as a response to the chaos of the wars of religion and existed to keep catholics and protestants from slaughtering each other. because the state mediates between different forms of life but isn't an expression of either it has the second and more useful function of mediating between classes, specifically the owning class and the servile class with the owning class naturally in control of the state apparatus

[Anonymous No.15595113]

>>15593060
>no. responsible are scientists and engineers who invented machines, which replaced humans, mostly peasants
>Mr. Ding, we are confiscating your foundry for the good of the party, and sending you to work in agriculture. Someone from central command will arrive shortly to take direction of the metalwork, so that iron can be smelted for the people
>Mr. Zhang, we are confiscating your farm for the good of the party, and sending you to work in the iron foundry. Someone from central command will arrive shortly to assume direction of the crops, so that grain can be harvested for the people
>millions starve to death suddenly
>look at what these damn scientists have done! This never would have happened if it weren't for those machines replacing everyone! Execute the scientists!

[Anonymous No.15595149]

>>15593060
>>15593082

Also why is this guy typing in a Chinese accent

[Anonymous No.15595236]

>>15592610
>that's what capitalism is though.
No, you ignoramus. It isn't.

[Anonymous No.15595248]

>>15595236
actually it literally is

[Anonymous No.15595270]

>>15595248
That is completely and utterly wrong. How many times does Smith have to talk about the importance of the people working in self-interest, being taken care of and happy, and the fundamentals of human nature surrounding the concept of bargaining, in order for you to realize this? Capitalism is based around a simple idea: people want to enjoy their slice of independence, they want to trade, they want to work, and they want to consume their fill. Deny them this, and the system falls apart. At no point was the system devised as one where a certain class takes all the products from the workers with nothing in exchange.

[Anonymous No.15595274]

>>15592610
labor doesn't exist, it's a social construct

[Anonymous No.15595279]

>>15595270
>At no point was the system devised as one where a certain class takes all the products from the workers with nothing in exchange.
and yet it naturally evolves into this every time by necessity

doesn't matter if it was intended or not

[Anonymous No.15595283]

>>15595279
>and yet it naturally evolves into this every time by necessity
Not under a constitutional monarchy it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.15596039]

>>15592902
No, that statement is so true that it practically approaches tautology. But you need to understand what unalienated labour is in the first place.

>>15595270
>At no point was the system devised as one where a certain class takes all the products from the workers with nothing in exchange.
I don't know what you mean by "devised", but it is a fact that capitalism came about through the negation of personal (or ancient communal) property and the creation of a mass of propertyless workers on the one side and of the mass of means of production they have been freed from on the other.

[Anonymous No.15596049]

>>15592545
>>lived a degenerate lifestyle
>>most of his ideas were refuted
>>his masterpiece, communism, is a dismal failure in practice
>>only his predictions and critiques of capitalism remain
none of this is true

[Anonymous No.15596055]

>>15592569
post invalidated by your ridiculous pic which promotes bourgeois fake politics

[Anonymous No.15596073]

>>15592690
I have a 16000% return in 2 years from the stock market and i still hate capitalism yeah its easy to suceed but whats the point if people suffer? Capitalism is the worst thing that happened to humanity. Dont use yourself as an excuse. Some of us have morals. Also i live in a social democratic country and i payed 40% tax and I dont bother because I know Its for the greater good. Tax the rich and feed the poor.

[Anonymous No.15596113]

>>15593780
> they literally let the foreign powers extrat their oil in exchange of a few dimes.
I mean if they go full communism they will all starve to death so

[Anonymous No.15596121]

>>15593793
>Chavez was a soldier and Maduro was a bus driver.
And Marx never ran a company and never worked in his life lmao, what does this has to with being Marxists

[Anonymous No.15596128]

>>15593822
Marx required a strong State centralization to Communism even being a thing. So it is still accurate.

[Anonymous No.15596134]

>>15594650
>>15594667
Samefag

[Anonymous No.15596139]

>>15594219
>most of his ideas were refuted In my mind
Yes, Mises, Menger, Hayek, Hoppe refuted his ideas.
Mises alone refuted Das Kapital. Communism only relies in the labour theory which is refuted by subjectivity.

[Anonymous No.15596141]

>>15594219
I'm an atheist. But when you look into what he wrote and actually contemplate what he meant by it, you figure out that it doesn't work.

Also his lifestyle wasn't /lit/; it was retarded and full of bitterness.

[Anonymous No.15596145]

>>15594098
>It's just the same arguments literally every time.
No it's not.

[Anonymous No.15596153]

>>15593822
Communism is when the State owns everything. Can you actually not understand that I'm referring to Marx's magical utopia when I say State?

[Anonymous No.15596160]

>>15593692
Commie detected

[Anonymous No.15596172]

>>15593043
No, they're social-democrats using select Marxist phraseology.

>>15596073
The money you made on the stock market ultimately comes from the workers. The tax you pay amounts to giving back to the workers a portion of what had been taken from them, but only as much as will make them keep agreeing to being cucked. So it's not at all for a greater good, but for maintenance of the system of poverty (and for making you feel morally virtuous).

>>15596113
No they won't. There's plenty of capacity for food production around the world.

>>15596128
State centralization is the prerequisite for transformation into communism, not communism itself.

>>15596153
Yes, I think he understood that you don't know what state is. That was his point.

[Anonymous No.15596178]

>>15596172
>No they won't. There's plenty of capacity for food production around the world.
The world is not venezuela.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_refugee_crisis
6+ Million venezuelan got tired already of being hungry.
>State centralization is the prerequisite for transformation into communism,
Yes, wonder why every communist attempt turned into a one party state dictatorship hmmm.

[Anonymous No.15596194]

>>15593048
Communism relies on people to be poor and oppressed or else no-one will care about it. Marx never predicted that capitalism had the ability to reform itself. It has and now people can earn more money like never before.
The fact that one person has made it in the system shows that with some skill you are able to rise above and bring in more money.

[Anonymous No.15596209]

>Why yes, I have read Marx and think a good definition of communism is when the State owns everything, how could you tell?

[Anonymous No.15596210]

>>15596178
>The world is not venezuela.
So? Communism won't have a rule that says food has to be produced within areas corresponding to old state borders and can't ever leave them. This sounds extremely retarded so I would probably trace the idea to your own imagination.
>Yes, wonder why every communist attempt turned into a one party state dictatorship hmmm.
That's not even true. The first one didn't because it hasn't gotten to that stage. The second one did because a dictatorship of the proletariat is a necessary form of the transformation into communism, and because proletariat needs a central organ in order to be able to exercise its dictatorship properly.
Though I have no idea how your comment is supposed to address state centralization being the prerequisite for the transformation into communism. It's probably your retardation flaring up again.

>>15596194
>Marx never predicted that capitalism had the ability to reform itself.

>The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production

12:20 CET. Is this the retarded euros invasion time? Time to leave the thread I guess.

[Anonymous No.15596244]

>>15596210
>Time to leave the thread I guess.
Alright.

[Anonymous No.15596278]

>>15596210
>The first one didn't because it hasn't gotten to that stage
I think it also had to with the fact that the War Communism policies of Lenin killed more people of starvation than hundred of years of Tsars prior.

[Anonymous No.15596280]

Definition of communism is when the workers own the means of production. Everything else is irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.15596288]

>>15596280
>muh communism has never been tried
It always ends in a dictatorship, since it has to go through socialism first.

[Anonymous No.15596307]

>>15596280
Communism is a shitty idea and morally selfish.
See >>15592590

>>15596280 see>>15596209

[Anonymous No.15596323]

>>15592618
the most retarded pic in this thread

[Anonymous No.15596383]

>>15596172
>No, they're social-democrats using select Marxist phraseology.
They're Marxists desu

[Anonymous No.15596401]

>>15596153
>when i am talking about State i am talking about something else, which is not sState but State.

>you don´t understand my big brain thoughts

[Anonymous No.15596409]

>>15593869
>former nationalists

mfw i actually had been a nationalist in my teens

[Anonymous No.15596421]

>>15596401
It's not that hard. Just think about it.
>>15593869
Cope.

[Anonymous No.15596715]

>>15596139
Yeah right, labor has nothing to do in the final price of a factory produced item. Nothing at all. :s Seriously if labor has nothing to do with value and even price, why do the Capitalists push constantly for mass immigration? If value really is subjective, they would more likely concentrate of quality of production, but everywhere in the west, those Capitalist push for mass immigration. I tell you why: it's because cost of production, thus value and consequently price, are directly correlated to labor, the amount of labor.
Honestly, labor theory, even imperfect, is a better explanation of value, even exchange value than supply and demand, which is not even an explanation in the first place.
Nobody can publish without consequences a full theory on the origin of value, probably because it wouldn't be welcomed by the establishment.

[Anonymous No.15596747]

>>15596715
The amount of work you put into something has nothing to do with it's value. If only it were that easy.

[Anonymous No.15596755]

>>15596715
>Yeah right, labor has nothing to do in the final price
Correct. pic related, though I agree the people who bought that in that case are idiots.
>why do the Capitalists push constantly for mass immigration
It is inevitable in a globalized world, see how many flights happen per year, everything is in constant movement, it is inevitable.

[Anonymous No.15596872]

>>15592662
Not that anon but how has Great Man History been refuted? Who refuted it? Genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.15596888]

>>15596747
And thank god for that. I don't want to have to pay for every shitty indie game some nerd whips up in RPG Maker.

[Anonymous No.15596920]

>>15592545
>Oh, look at me guys. I am such a intelectual. I endlessly repeat that Marx is irrelevant while ignoring the clear double standard that also several other classical authors are just as contested or even more than Marx; also, ignoring the historical and theoretical value that marxism brought to the social sciences, oh wow, I am such a intelectual guys, just, fucking, LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!!!

[Anonymous No.15596934]

>>15596897
They don't give a shit about diversity and skin color.
They promot mass immigration in order to dump wages and break class struggle.
>>15596755
About pic related, you don't know the application field of the law of value.

"The field of application of the law of value is limited to new output by producers of traded, reproducible labour-products,[18] although it might indirectly influence trade in other goods or assets (for example, the value of a second-hand good may be related to a newly produced good of the same type). Thus, the law does not apply to all goods, services or assets in an economy, and it does not rule the whole economy. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_value#Field_of_application

[Anonymous No.15596953]

>>15596747
If only you knew how stupid you are. Labor time constitute the major part of the value of a specific item. The market influence is only a small part of it's end exchange value. You got your thought process reversed. Either because you repeat things that you learned like a parrot, or because your spirit got contaminated by commodity fetishism.

[Anonymous No.15596959]

Listen, labor theory of value isn't even the root of it. To get to the bottom of the economy you have have to go back to the physiocrats. All value comes not from labor, but from the land because the land is what feeds the labor that creates the secondary products. Physiocrats been criminally overlooked for centuries.

[Anonymous No.15596963]

>>15592545
Dialectical materialism completely and utterly eviscerated Plato and Aristotle's metaphysical linguistic fuckery that got every philosopher's panties in a bunch for 2000 years

[Anonymous No.15596977]

>>15592608
In capitalism you can be communist if you want, but in communism you can't be a capitalist. Capitalism with free market = freedom.

[Anonymous No.15597014]

>>15596934
>you don't know the application field of the law of value.

Belle Delphine released the water she bathed in in one of her videos. The little jars were posted on their page for $ 30 each and quickly sold out.
If for Marx, the exchange value of a commodity depends on the socially necessary work that they have incorporated, how can we explain the ridiculous and absurd exchange value of Delphine jars, with these having practically no incorporated work? Being the price for Marxists, the apparent representation of the exchange value, which in turn, ultimately depends on work, is there a solution?
The reason why a small bottle of Delphine "bath water" is priced relative to half a tank of gas is because value and prices have nothing to do with work.
Belle Delphine and the theory of subjective value seem to bury the theory of labor value and the theoretical core of Marx.

[Anonymous No.15597025]

>>15597014
Imagine basing your life around an ideology so flimsy it gets blown out by an ethot selling bathwater.

[Anonymous No.15597029]

>>15597025
Imagine basing your life around an ideology

[Anonymous No.15597032]

>>15597025
Is how pathetic communism/socialism is.

[Anonymous No.15597064]

Soviet Union fell, USA did not.
There's no more need for proof, communism could not survive or withstand political pressure.
They were ideological imperialist nonetheless the same way the US were trading freedom for economic slavery, the soviet union was trading freedom for ideological slavery.
Communism/Socialism and other leftist ideologies all require hard indoctrination to properly function.
Also the only nation that literally had to disappear was commie, lol.

[Anonymous No.15597073]

I don't know much about communism but when an ideology has a fanbase that looks like this it's a red flag.

[Anonymous No.15597087]

>>15597014
>>15597025
>reproducible labour-products
Are you really stupid or are you only pretending not to understand? Do you even know what a field of application is? I don't think so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_value#Field_of_application

[Anonymous No.15597129]

>>15596039
>I don't know what you mean by "devised", but it is a fact that capitalism came about through the negation of personal (or ancient communal) property and the creation of a mass of propertyless workers on the one side and of the mass of means of production they have been freed from on the other.
What book are you getting this from?

[Anonymous No.15597148]

>>15597129
Not him, but Das Kapital, Vol.1.
The concept he talks about is primitive accumulation of Capital.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital
Maybe it's time to read the book?

[Anonymous No.15597151]

>>15597087
Couldn't care less, Value is Subjective either way.

[Anonymous No.15597181]

what I like about /lit/ is that there are clearly both Marxist and critics of Marx here. Literally every other website I visit is either dominated by the blind left (reddit being the prime example, but also major newspapers like the Guardian) or by alt-right or conservatives types who reject anything left of centre. I feel like I actually learn a thing or two here. Based.

[Anonymous No.15597187]

>>15597151
Okay, i'll remember this tomorrow, at the supermarket, i'll tell the cashier that i won't paid $4 for the toothbrush, because in my subjective opinion, it's only worth $3.80.

[Anonymous No.15597216]

>>15596959
Alright you got me interested. Any reading recs for these guys?

[Anonymous No.15597232]

>>15596920

[Anonymous No.15597233]

>>15597148
So you are/he is getting information on capitalism from Das Kapital? Makes sense why his post sounds confused then. That's like trying to learn about Nietzsche through a Christian author lol.

>Maybe it's time to read the book?
I think you all should finally read The Wealth of Nations instead.

[Anonymous No.15597238]

>>15596959
The Physiocrats, the men.

[Anonymous No.15597240]

>>15597187
You are really twisting your straw man terribly. Don't like the price? Don't buy it, is up to you, not the seller's.

[Anonymous No.15597248]

>>15597233
Holy shit you are the dumb kind.
Marx based his work on Adam Smith and Ricardo. He even corrected them on their errors in the volumes of Das Kapital.

[Anonymous No.15597250]

>>15596953
>Labor time constitute the major part of the value of a specific item.
So if I spend three days working endlessly working on a wittled statue, but it looks shit it should still sell for a big price because I worked really hard on it?

[Anonymous No.15597264]

>>15597250
Marxists get around it by saying that's not "social necessary labor" or some shit, which is to say you created something the market doesn't want. But in communism, there's no market, so how do we find out what labor is socially necessary or not?

[Anonymous No.15597277]

>>15592713
yeah right just like the genesis was a metaphor...

[Anonymous No.15597284]

>>15597187
If you go to a bodega and make that argument, they'll probably give you the 20 cents off. Price tags increase efficiency for buyer and seller, but if you really want to haggle over a tooth brush, you can probably find someone willing to engage.

[Anonymous No.15597288]

>>15597248
>Marx based his work on Adam Smith and Ricardo. He even corrected them on their errors in the volumes of Das Kapital.
Only a druggie degenerate like Marx could believe in the labour theory of value

[Anonymous No.15597290]

>>15597181
Is both a blessing and a curse, use what you learned wisely anon.

[Anonymous No.15597294]

>>15597248
A Christian can base his work on Nietzsche all he wants. It doesn't mean he's going to understand it or not resort to developing a confirmation bias at every turn.

The point is that the ideas presented by Adam Smith were not intended for just any system of government. Failing the system of government he had in mind, another economic system must be implemented. But the idea that capitalism is intentionally designed to cause a rift between classes is false.

[Anonymous No.15597296]

>>15597240
I really wonder why a toothbrush price is $4 and a car $20000.
Is it because the car contains around 5000 times the amount of work of the toothbrush, from the work required to extract and transform the raw material to the assembly, or is it because the magical market, or supply and demand, determined straight from nowhere that the car is worth 5000 times the price of the toothbrush. The price increasing with the amount of labor required to produce a good must be a coincidence...

[Anonymous No.15597310]

>>15597181
Most of social media websites are bad for political discussion because of the like/vote systems, the astroturfing, and the various algorithms which encourage ad viewing by creating echo chambers. That's why reddit is liberal. Imageboard are unironically better even if /lit/ is something of a safe haven on 4chan given the influence of /pol/. Reddit or newspapers like guardian aren't really leftist sites, if you are curious of what a not too bad leftist community is like you can visit bunkerchan.

[Anonymous No.15597322]

>>15597250
Do you even understand the term reproducible goods you dumb fuck? Labor theory of value doesn't apply to you piece of shit work of art. Literal quote from wikipedia:
"Marx does not treat the value of products which 'cannot be reproduced by labor, such as antiques and works of art by certain masters, etc.'"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_value#cite_note-26

[Anonymous No.15597336]

>>15592752
Holy based and pbuh.

Marx] leads the existence of a Bohemian intellectual. Washing, grooming and changing his linen are things he does rarely, and he is often drunk. Though he is frequently idle for days on end, he will work day and night with tireless endurance when he has much work to do.

He has no fixed time for going to sleep or waking up. He often stays up all night and then lies down fully clothed on the sofa at midday, and sleeps till evening, untroubled by the whole world coming or going through [his room] ...

There is not one clean and solid piece of furniture. Everything is broken, tattered and torn, with half an inch of dust over everything and the greatest disorder everywhere ...

When you enter Marx’s room smoke and tobacco fumes make your eyes water ... Everything is dirty and covered with dust, so that to sit down becomes a hazardous business. Here is a chair with three legs. On another chair the children are playing cooking. This chair happens to have four legs. This is the one that is offered to the visitor, but the children’s cooking has not been wiped away and if you sit down you risk a pair of trousers.

[Anonymous No.15597345]

>>15597294
if capitalism unintentionally creates a rift between classes then repairing said rift wouldn't necessarily be anti-capitalist now would it?

[Anonymous No.15597365]

>>15592545
Are you dumb, stupid, or dumb?
You're big mad

[Anonymous No.15597368]

>>15597296
>I really wonder why a toothbrush price is $4 and a car $20000.
I know because is subjective. I know someone who sells bath water jars for the same price as half a tank of gas(trust me, making gas is not an easy task At All).
Again, if I told you a car is actually worth jack shit to me, it loses all of its value, that other people buys it at that price is because of the aforementioned bath water jars reason. Subjectivity.

[Anonymous No.15597369]

>>15597345
It depends on what you think repairing it means. In most cases it means throwing the socialist anarchists i.e. communists out of the kingdom and re-establishing the constitutional monarchy.

[Anonymous No.15597370]

>>15597322
LTOV is accepted by big brains and dummies, never midwits.

[Anonymous No.15597386]

>>15597294
>Failing the system of government he had in mind, another economic system must be implemented.
Still believing in political economy, not gonna make it.
>>15597233
>So you are/he is getting information on capitalism from Das Kapital? Makes sense why his post sounds confused then. That's like trying to learn about Nietzsche through a Christian author lol.
Marx is not the only one who talked about primitive accumulation. There are even some modern authors who wrote about it. It's one of the biggest misunderstanding of Capitalism by the way, thinking that Capitalism appeared in a totally consensual way, when it was often throught dispossession, even violent ones like the the 16th century in England, that the condition for it to work were put into place.

[Anonymous No.15597400]

>>15597386
Capitalism is an economic theory, not a political theory. If you don't believe in political theory, you don't know what capitalism is at all.

[Anonymous No.15597419]

>>15597322
Settle down there. Now my sculpture wasn't just a work of art, it has practical purposes too. It's a little thing you can put scissors in so they don't get lost or end up cutting anyone.

[Anonymous No.15597425]

>>15597400
I didn't meant believing, as something that is real or not. Of course political economy is real. The thing is, people who still believe in political economy as a way to better their life in 2020 are retards. Political economy, in all it's forms, is just a way to organize Capitalism. And with the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, political economy have less and less room for maneuver.

[Anonymous No.15597427]

>>15597336
Maybe if he could think straight he would've been able to see how shit his ideas were.

[Anonymous No.15597429]

>>15597368
Shit arguement

[Anonymous No.15597432]

>>15597368
Maybe you drank too much of this bath water. Stop smoking or drinking in the day.

[Anonymous No.15597439]

>>15597432
>Stop smoking or drinking in the day.
Someone should have told that to Karl Marx too

[Anonymous No.15597443]

>>15597429
>>15597432
>non-arguments
Seething refuted marxist rats.

[Anonymous No.15597445]

>>15597439
He smoked big brain tobacco not brainlet weed.

[Anonymous No.15597461]

>>15597425
>The thing is, people who still believe in political economy as a way to better their life in 2020 are retards.
But that's literally the point of creating political economy. How can the kingdom thrive best? The only ones that it doesn't try to benefit are the nihilists and naysayers, the enemies of the kingdom, obviously. At which point, if you had any sense, you would throw such people out of the kingdom.

[Anonymous No.15597463]

>>15597445
>tobacco
smoking is still a sign of closeted homosexuality though. That's all I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.15597466]

>>15597419
What you are doing with your example of shit sculpture, is called over-generalization. Same for the example of the guy who spend a lot of work digging a hole on the ground, expecting for the price of the land to increase. You are taking an exceptional retarded example, and using it to criticize a theory, the labor theory of value, which by the way was honest to delimit it's field of application to new output by producers of tradable, reproducible goods.
https://www.klearminds.com/blog/cognitive-distortions-thinking-errors-can-cbt-help/

[Anonymous No.15597479]

Why are marxoids the easiest to bait? Is it the compulsion to simp?

[Anonymous No.15597487]

>>15597443
>my subjective anecdote based on my own mental illness that predisposes me to pay for filthy bath water is true for everything, check mate I win.
Marx like Smith assumed people act in their own self interest, ie rational man. There were insane asylums back then, many filled with onanists like you, with people who made retarded value assessments and justified them as dude subjective bro.

[Anonymous No.15597516]

>>15597479
Oh we know that you simp for Capitalism. You have been doing it for 12000 years. Guess your ancestor were the first one to accept private property of the means of production through intimidation and coercion. Or maybe they didn't, in that case, they would split your face in half with an axe, if they knew what kind of lackey their ancestor has become.

[Anonymous No.15597532]

>>15597487
> dude subjective bro.
Yes.
>my own mental illness
>There were insane asylums back then, many filled with onanists like you
Now that's just ad hominem, it doesn't negate any of my statements, but I know what you are getting at, the inevitable totalitarian side of marxism.

[Anonymous No.15597548]

>>15597487
>implies placing people in a gulag
lmao can you go 5 seconds without living the stereotype of “re education camps”

[Anonymous No.15597553]

>>15597516
Oriental despotism, which is the first type of state to emerge, didn't have private property. Everything was owned by the state by way of a divine king.

[Anonymous No.15597601]

>>15597553
Now that's a good argument for a change. So it was class based, and State owned means of production, not communal.

[Anonymous No.15597635]

>>15597553
>Oriental despotism
Tell me more about this shit, what does it imply?

[Anonymous No.15597663]

>>15597635
It implies that private property isn't a trick some conman played 9000 years ago and we've just been stuck with it ever since. Private property might actually be progressive because it means the government and/or your neighbors can't just have their way with you.

[Anonymous No.15597665]

>>15597368
Bath water jars, does it qualify to enter in the field of application of the labor theory of value from Karl Marx?
Field of application: The field of application of the law of value is limited to new output by producers of traded, reproducible labour-products,

Let's check:
>new output by producers
Yes
>traded
Yes
>reproducible labour-products
No.

You cannot criticize a theory, outside of it's field of application, especially if the field of application was clearly established.

[Anonymous No.15597688]

>>15597663
Yeah I'm just checking it, is this thing I suppose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Despotism
I'll now study it, thanks for bringing this up anon.

[Anonymous No.15597695]

>>15597663
Private property of the means of production benefits more the owners of those means of production than it benefits the average guy who want to be left alone in his little house.

[Anonymous No.15597707]

>>15597665
Bathwater jars are reproducible. Actually, bro! I'm going to apply to next years Y-Combinator batch by pitching a bathwater startup where we pay people in South Asia to sit in baths in 8 hours shifts, and then automate the jar creation and sealing. It'll be like factory farming, but for bathwater. Belle Delphine definitely found product-market-fit, but failed to scale up. With an infusion of capital from Y-Combinator, I'll scale up and start seeing hockey stick growth within 18 months.

[Anonymous No.15597714]

>>15597695
If there's no private property, I'll just take the average guy's stuff, you know, like a despotic god king, aaand now we're back to the beginning.

[Anonymous No.15597723]

>>15597688
You seriously never heard of oriental despotism before? When did you get into Marxism? Last semester?

[Anonymous No.15597751]

>>15597723
I'm not marxist, I just want to counter marxism.

[Anonymous No.15597796]

>>15597707
If you did this, it would actually have the value of water. Or maybe even less, since the water would be soiled by Belle Delphine's body. Some monopolies like Belle Delphine business, operate on the fact that they are monopolies. Artificial scarcity. If you multiply Picasso paintings at milliions of copies, hand made in factories, the original one will keep it's value. The monopoly creates the price of the product in itself. In any case, if you did this, the Belle Delphine water won't be tradable anymore, since there is not mass scale markets for Belle delphine products for normal people. So you will gain the reproductible aspect, but loose the tradable one.
It's because Belle Delphine products are qualified as work of art, and thus are not in the field of the labor theory of value. You cannot have a product which is both a work of art and factory produced. It's one or the other.

[Anonymous No.15597813]

>>15597751
Lol good luck. I didn't became Marxist by choice, but because it was the most plausible explanation of the shit we are in. Perhaps it's a paid job for you?

[Anonymous No.15597831]

>>15597813
> I didn't became Marxist by choice, but because it was the most plausible explanation of the shit we are in
Did you skip the entire Austrian school by chance?

[Anonymous No.15597840]

>>15597466
So you're saying that he LTOV applies to everyone but me, just because you don't like my sculpture which I worked really hard on? Thanks a lot faggot.

[Anonymous No.15597844]

>>15597695
and yet you want to take away what little the second guy has just because you're jealous of the first

[Anonymous No.15597852]

>>15597840
You didn't make it with a machine. If you buy a machine that makes shitty sculptures and pay a guy to run it then labor theory of value applies. In fact, that gives me an idea!

1) buy machine that makes shitty sculptures
2) pay guy to run it day and night
3) ????
4) PROFIT!

Boom!

[Anonymous No.15597857]

>>15597796
>>15597707
>>15597665
This has gotten way to out of hand, let's just say Belle Delphine brings marxist theory to its knees, the end.

[Anonymous No.15597863]

>>15597813
What "shit are we in" exactly? A world of abundance and rising standards of living? Damn it, if only there was a way to stop this exploitation!

[Anonymous No.15597876]

>>15597796
I'll call it Waifu Water and pay chicks in Philippines to make it. Google was not the first search engine. Belle Delphine is the "Ask Jeeves!" to my Google. Bring it.

[Anonymous No.15597894]

>>15597857
Hell yeah. The Belle Delphine Hypothesis destroys Marxism.

[Anonymous No.15597896]

>>15597840
Sculptur done by retard anon, let's test if it enters into the field of application of the labor theory of value:
Definition: The field of application of the law of value is limited to new output by producers of traded, reproducible labour-products

Acpplication to retard anon sculpture:
>New output by producers.
No. Retarded anon is not a producers, his item is a work of art, handcrafted.
>Traded
No. Sculpture looks like shit, according to his own maker. Shit products are not tradable.
>reproducible labour-products
No. His product is handmade. Not factory made. No reproductible.

Rejected from the application field of labor theory of value.

[Anonymous No.15597911]

>>15597896
What if I made a machine that made copies of it? I wouldn't be doing any work so would the LTOV still apply? No.
3D printing is going to further rape and end the communist idea.

[Anonymous No.15597914]

>>15597894
Marx already had those debates with the retards of his era who were 100 more read than you. Don't worry, those retarded example have been taken into consideration when the labor theory of value has been put into form. Same for Adam Smith and Ricardo. I guess they already had to deal with the retards of their era.

[Anonymous No.15597922]

The virgin western capitalism "invisible hand theory" vs the chad Middle Eastern haggle bazaars

[Anonymous No.15597924]

>>15597796
>Belle Delphine water won't be tradable anymore, since there is not mass scale markets for Belle delphine products for normal people

How do you know how many people want to buy the bathwater? Whether it should be artisan-crafted by belle herself like art, as it currently is, or if it justifies building a swimming pool factory for her to swim in?
You don't, wannabe dictator dumbass. are you gonna poll your citizens on how much Belle-water they want produced? what happens to your factories when she gets old and demand dries up? Maybe stick to the staples and let people decide themselves what they want

[Anonymous No.15597931]

>>15597863
>Financial crisis is striking currently
>A world of abundance and rising standards of living.
Capital apologists have no shame. Chutzpah!

[Anonymous No.15597944]

>>15597840
Now I hate to defend some old Marxian bullshit, but suppose LTOV follows a "natural law" for wages that doesn't respect "living wages" or "minimum wages" or other moral shit etc. If a guy buys your statue for 5 bucks after you spend 40 hours on it, that doesn't disprove LTV, it just means your labor is only worth 12 cents an hour.

[Anonymous No.15597948]

>>15597863
exactly. this world is purposeless. you must be someones property, a fag.

[Anonymous No.15597955]

>>15597931
Uh yes? Extreme poverty just keeps getting lowered, people is way, way richer than they were hundred of years ago.

[Anonymous No.15597958]

>>15597695
yes, your wife benefits you more than other people.

[Anonymous No.15597959]

>>15597931
>Financial crisis caused by governments making running a business illegal

Capitalism has failed!

[Anonymous No.15597966]

>>15597924
>How do you know how many people want to buy the bathwater? Whether it should be artisan-crafted by belle herself like art, as it currently is, or if it justifies building a swimming pool factory for her to swim in?
Common sense, which you seem to lack obviously.
>You don't, wannabe dictator dumbass. are you gonna poll your citizens on how much Belle-water they want produced? what happens to your factories when she gets old and demand dries up? Maybe stick to the staples and let people decide themselves what they want

Classic impugning motives.

[Anonymous No.15597970]

>>15597944
>If a guy buys your statue for 5 bucks after you spend 40 hours on it, that doesn't disprove LTV, it just means your labor is only worth 12 cents an hour.
Oh now I get you

[Anonymous No.15597980]

>A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain, or but a very insignificant one; and however high it may shoot up in the course of civilization, if the neighboring palace rises in equal or even in greater measure, the occupant of the relatively little house will always find himself more uncomfortable, more dissatisfied, more cramped within his four walls.
>An appreciable rise in wages presupposes a rapid growth of productive capital. Rapid growth of productive capital calls forth just as rapid a growth of wealth, of luxury, of social needs and social pleasures. Therefore, although the pleasures of the labourer have increased, the social gratification which they afford has fallen in comparison with the increased pleasures of the capitalist, which are inaccessible to the worker, in comparison with the stage of development of society in general. Our wants and pleasures have their origin in society; we therefore measure them in relation to society; we do not measure them in relation to the objects which serve for their gratification. Since they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature.
Wage, Labour, & Capital. Ch. VI

Daily reminder that Marxism at its core is simply jealously and resentment.

[Anonymous No.15597981]

>>15597296
seething is also labour. you waste your time and energy. lol

[Anonymous No.15597985]

>>15597944
Obviously, but in industrial society, factory labor value is standardized.
>>15597955
What is the rate of exploitation?

[Anonymous No.15597986]

>>15597663
>It means the government can't just have their way with you.

But the state enforces the right to private property anon.

[Anonymous No.15597996]

>>15597959
Causality reversal. Corona didn't create the economical crisis. The economical crisis created corona virus, as a cover up. Late 2019 negative interest rates. Mid march 2020 suppresion of fractional reserves by the Fed. What does it feel to be dumb as fuck?

[Anonymous No.15598009]

>>15595113
blah blah. what exactly do you complain about?

[Anonymous No.15598013]

>>15597980
>Daily reminder that Marxism at its core is simply jealously and resentment.
Daily reminder that Capitalism at it's core is submission and slave mentality.

[Anonymous No.15598025]

>>15595149
probably because americans thinking they are on the top spiritually are below the bottom.

[Anonymous No.15598028]

>>15597996
It comes from China. It was started in China by Wet Markets. Why is it the virus was in Wuhan but never went to any other place in China? Yet it went to every other place in the world.

[Anonymous No.15598032]

>>15597986
Yes, a state that isn't despotic has laws that stop it from seizing your property. Think of it like a social contract. If only someone had written about all this shit before.

[Anonymous No.15598035]

>>15597985
>What is the rate of exploitation?
Matters little, when people have been objectively getting richer in general ever since the industrial revolution.

[Anonymous No.15598041]

>>15597996
Feels good, since my Apple stock is at an all time high. Suck it commie.

[Anonymous No.15598048]

>>15598013
yes. communism is for free people, they are free to come to you and take from you, justifying robbery by victimizing themselves.

[Anonymous No.15598049]

Socialism does not work.

Marxism does not work.

Communism does not work.

[Anonymous No.15598051]

>>15597911
3D printing is going to rape Capitalism. You would know this if you had studied the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. But since you are an unread brainlet, you only talked out of your ass, and out of youtube vids.

[Anonymous No.15598059]

>>15598028
Holy shit he thinks there is an health crisis for real. That makes sense now.

[Anonymous No.15598066]

>>15598013
Cope

[Anonymous No.15598075]

>>15598041
We will see it if is at an all time high in a few month. In any case super retard, it doesn't matter if it's an all time high in fake dollars. Money printing. You just prove you are dumb.

[Anonymous No.15598083]

>>15597996
How did an economical crisis create a virus? Are you saying interest groups funded labs to develop the virus and spread it into certain populations?

[Anonymous No.15598088]

>>15598041
time will come and demand for apple shit will start dropping. we face end of innovation. after inventing realistic sex robots people won't need each other at all.

[Anonymous No.15598102]

>>15598083
why spread the virus, idiot? spread the talk about virus. how many cells in your brain? 1-2?

[Anonymous No.15598106]

>>15598083
That's a psy op for you. Read Guy Debord, the society of spectacle.

[Anonymous No.15598113]

Capitalism literally does not work.

[Anonymous No.15598116]

>>15598059
mental health crisis is certainly real. JLM!

[Anonymous No.15598143]

>>15598102
>>15598106
But a virus actually did spread around, because I caught it, and tested for it, and had all the symptoms attributed to it, and it felt nothing like other illnesses I've had.

[Anonymous No.15598147]

>>15598113
it works. but not for scum. when your dad coom into your moms vagina, did they think about job market in future, demand in future?

planned economy is good? planned economy, real communism starts with planned production of producers, workers, planned birth control. now you understand why you are stupid faggot?

[Anonymous No.15598153]

>>15598143
yes. you have been TOLD that. probably you have 1 cell in your brain.

[Anonymous No.15598156]

>>15598147
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma

This is unironically what happens with modern day capitalism

[Anonymous No.15598166]

>>15598153
I was told that I was sick for weeks with symptoms I've never had with any other illness I caught at work, like nerve pain?

[Anonymous No.15598174]

>>15597665
>>15597707
>>15597796
>>15597857
>>15597876
>>15597894
>>15597924
>>15597966
Sex always win baby, Marxism forever BTFO.

[Anonymous No.15598223]

>>15598116
Yes it's called alienation.

[Anonymous No.15598238]

>>15598166
zero cells. NPC. you did not have covid.

[Anonymous No.15598261]

>>15598238
So why did I have nerve pain along with a fever, an aggressive cough, loss of taste and smell, and inflammation for weeks after?

[Anonymous No.15598281]

>>15598261
because you are weak stupid faggot. also in this reality I suspect you are glowfaggot larping as covid victim. it is soo bad you are alive yet. please, kys.

[Anonymous No.15598291]

>>15597852
4/Get bankrupt

[Anonymous No.15598300]

>>15598261
You know that there is a lot of reasons you could have those symptoms, many of which don't imply the germ theory to be something real.

[Anonymous No.15598304]

>>15598281
>because you are weak stupid faggot.
What kind of an answer is this? It's a non-answer, that's what.

I also had a blood test for the antibodies which turned up positive. I didn't inform the blood lab that I had any symptoms in the past. I live in NYC and was one of the first to get it, unfortunately. I personally know people who lost people to the virus, including a friend's girlfriend.

You are just another retard who tries to build theory off of your ignorance. Your idiocy is more dangerous to society than the virus itself.

[Anonymous No.15598356]

>>15598304
>(((the virus)))
Yeah right.

[Anonymous No.15598377]

>>15598356
I hope you get it, or someone close to you gets it, full blown, so you can see how ignorant you are. And I hope you/they make it through it, of course. Me and my family didn't suffer through that garbage just to hear bullshit from clueless people like you.

[Anonymous No.15598379]

>>15597955
>the extreme poverty line is defined as the purchasing power of 2 USD
>Basically a couple loaves of bread a day
<But it doesn't matter where the bar is, just that the numbers go down!
>The bar just so happens to be set such that there are more people who don't get enough calories to work than there are in extreme poverty.
>If you set the number to something more reasonable (7 dollars, the US food insecurity guidelines) the number in poverty has increased since the 1980s, and the absolute percentage has only fallen from 80% to 60%.

Now granted, more objective hard metrics like infant mortality have improved, but the entire conclusion seems to be that Neoliberalism and modern globalisation have actually done almost nothing to improve the economic freedom of the destitute, despite the economy growing massively during this period.
Instead the driver of socioeconomic development for the poor in the neoliberal third world seems to be philanthropy, much like that of the American robber barons and Industrialist British upper class of old.

The greatest Irony is that the country to improve the wages of it's workers the most in real terms seems to be China, in spite of the cries of authoritarianism, economic injustice and slavery from western liberals. Infact If you remove China's population from the chart, the picture becomes much more dire, with the total proportion in poverty actually stagnant since 1980.
This isn't a defence or endorsement of Deng Xiaoping's economic reformist ideas, I'm just pointing out the hypocritical shell game that liberals do with these fudged statistics in order to launder their ideology.

https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty

[Anonymous No.15598387]

>>15592572
t. Never read Marx

[Anonymous No.15598509]

>>15598300
Like what reasons?

[Anonymous No.15598549]

>>15598379
>something more reasonable
You don't get say what's reasonable or not. 2$ per day is sufficient to live, as compared nothing at all in the first place.
>Infact If you remove China's population from the chart, the picture becomes much more dire, with the total proportion in poverty actually stagnant since 1980.
This is an outright lie.

>We see that the reduction of global poverty was very substantial even when we do not take into account the poverty reduction in China. In 1981 almost one third (29%) of the non-Chinese world population was living in extreme poverty. By 2013 this share had fallen to 12%.
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty#how-much-does-the-reduction-of-falling-poverty-in-china-matter-for-the-reduction-of-global-poverty

[Anonymous No.15598672]

>>15598174
Der Coomer

[Anonymous No.15598683]

>>15598113
Give one example of when capitalism hasn't worked. That's right you can't.
>>15598059
Your tinfoil hat is glinting in my eyes, could you dim it please?

[Anonymous No.15598727]

>>15597985
Can you explain that graph please?

[Anonymous No.15598741]

>>15598013
Yikes. Communism is a classic example of Nietzsche's slave morality and herd mentality.
'If I can't have it then no one can'

[Anonymous No.15598759]

>>15598013
Daily reminder that slaves prefer slavery over freedom. Respect towards slaves is inherent to capitalism.

[Anonymous No.15598760]

>>15598051
Ugh. When the first machines were brought in at the beginning of the industrial revolution a bunch of workers came in and smashed the machines that had replaced them. They were called the Luddites. They thought they were going to be forever unemployed but they eventually got jobs again and moved on from when they were replaced by machines. The same thing will happen with capitalism.

>pic related is what communism will look like in 2030

[Anonymous No.15598784]

>>15598377
Strange because around here almost nobody got it, and those who supposedly got it and die from it were 90+. Still Covid killed 250000 people (fake statistic taking all people who died in elderly homes as Covid victims), yet the 2017-2018 flu killed 1.6 M people.

[Anonymous No.15598813]

>>15598760
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall

[Anonymous No.15598824]

>>15598784
It's not strange that you somehow didn't happen to come in contact with a virus on a planet with 8 billion people that also went on lockdown for months.

[Anonymous No.15598844]

>>15598824
I know people who were tested for it and got it.

[Anonymous No.15598879]

>>15598813
dumb it down for me doc

[Anonymous No.15599246]

>>15592545
>Can we just forget about this old fucker?
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15599340]

>>15599246
>Can we just forget about this old fucker?
>Make a thread about him.
If i was into psychology, i would say there are some subconscious mechanisms at work. This or it was the usual Marx's thread, because those threads generates a lot of posts.

[Anonymous No.15599494]

>>15598549
>You don't get say what's reasonable or not.

According to the UN there are more people living at calorie levels below the threshold for basic human activity than there are people making $2 a day.
Almost three times as many are malnourished.
How is this the standard for poverty?
The people at this income level are generally going to be subsistence farmers, because that level of income is unlivable otherwise.

>This is an outright lie.

At $7.40, sorry I wasn't clear enough, but I did provide a graph.
When you lower the bar to $2 China makes much less of an impact, this is because most in China were already paid above $2 a day in 1980. 2 dollars is chosen specifically because it's an easy bar to cross and because it obfuscates the actual meaningful changes in income shown by a more realistic meter.

[Anonymous No.15599500]

>>15599494
"Living on two dollars a day" is problematic because it fails to account for things like inflation and local pricing for goods.

[Anonymous No.15599526]

>>15599500
It's purchasing power, it does account for that.

[Anonymous No.15599656]

>>15598377
drivel