[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 218 KB, 305x549, baudrillard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15582425 No.15582425 [Reply] [Original]

I don't get it. Signs and the signified are blurred to the point where the distinction can't be made but how does that imply that the truth doesn't exist? The truth is only concealed and we can get it back if we revert back to primordial society since symbols won't be convoluted anymore.

>> No.15582443

>>15582425
French postmodern "thinkers" are all bullshit artists.

>> No.15582476

That requires an acceptance of the existence of some primordial society, and not only that, but a primordial society that can be accessed or reinstated. This is a big assumption to make a priori. Baudrillard just isn't concerned with that, although he would probably entertain it. His fundamental assumption is that cultures are relatively stable systems of signs, but that we have entered into a self-reinforcing gyre in which all stability has become a steady state instability.

He does talk about how to get out of it, and he seems to imply that this would require setting foot on some terra firma again. But he is agnostic about what this might be. So is Heidegger.

>> No.15582524

>>15582425
The truth is concealed but the Idea of truth remains. When we can no longer distinguish between either-or, we suspend belief in our selves until a proper ordering of behavior can emerge from chaos. The best bet is to simply wait it out, acknowledging the guaranteed arrival of the parting of clouds. Of course, if you do understand these basic principles of the psychosocial work, you can accelerate the narrative on your own behalf. Life’s a one dimensional fractal endlessly folded back on itself. We follow a linear path. Know it and abuse it.

>> No.15582673
File: 68 KB, 367x321, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15582673

Baudrillard has such based ideas but is so hard to read

>> No.15582687

He's a pataphysician. Start with Jarry.

>> No.15583246

>>15582425
Guys behind him looks like him but younger...
Probably the big fish mouth.

>> No.15583286

We’ve shared the same thought OP. Deconstruction is totally legit, aside from the notion that there’s nothing beyond delusion. It’s true everything we think of is delusion, but that doesn’t mean that there’s nothing behind that delusion. It may help to acknowledge the idea in Taoism of emptying yourself of all thought so the purest expression can emerge. I think that’s the actual purpose of deconstruction, even if the philosophers didn’t express it

>> No.15583317

Truth and the real are part of the system of signs and significations, not the realm of the symbolic. Truth and the real absolutely exist, but only within signification. There is no truth or the real within the symbolic order and to think that we can recapture them by reverting to the symbolic order is a fantasy of the system of signification.

Bonus: Baudrillard never advocated reverting back to any primordial society, and was skeptical (if you read closely) that they ever actually existed.

>> No.15583324

>>15583246
Frog mouth
because they're french

>> No.15583363

>>15583317
>There is no truth or the real within the symbolic order and to think that we can recapture them by reverting to the symbolic order is a fantasy of the system of signification.
Wrong. If there were no truth in the order, then the order itself would be unintelligible to observing whether or not it contains truth.

>> No.15583388

>>15582687
based Jarry poster
also this is the best take I've ever seen on Baudrillard

>> No.15585307

>>15583363
>the order itself would be unintelligible to observing whether or not it contains truth.
That is precisely the case.

>> No.15585338

>>15582443
How is Derrida and Foucault bullshit? I think they exposed rationality pretty well

>> No.15585364

>>15582425

how is baudrillard different from any other philosopher obsessed with multiplicity of forms? why does it matter that everything is fake?

>> No.15585566

>>15582673
Same for a lot of French postmodernists. The style at the time was "drive people to commit suicide through writing like an asshole" if I remember correctly

>> No.15585635

>>15585364
These people posting here don’t really seem to know Baudrillard’s thought very well. His ideas of reversibility, seduction, and different types of exchange are much more important to his thought than his take in the relationship between signifiers and signified.

>> No.15586343

>>15583317

Right, that's why he was always going on about potlatch.