/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15560583]

What makes people who are supported by major banks and corporations think they are against the system?

[Anonymous No.15560606]

you are mistaking the average citizen for a sentient adult who has been misled by bad ideas into a stable but deranged worldview

you are not realizing that the derangement is primary and the vast majority of your fellow "citizens" have the minds of children and can't think beyond waiting for associations (learned from movies and the internet) to fly together in their brain in preprogrammed ways, mingled with emotions

we're trapped in an insane asylum, we're mentally ill too, but the people you're referring to are the ones who are hopelessly insane and babbling about their delusions. there is no cure for what these people have, the most you can do is restore order, make them comfortable, and allow for a new generation of healthy people to grow from scratch. you're not going to deprogram childless forty year old hipsters and their polyamorous tattooed "fuckbuddies" from collecting funco pops and thinking tweets are political activism. sometimes the kindest thing you can do is give them a nice free range farm to run around on, carefully sequestered from anything important so that you can clean up the mess they made when they were in charge

[Anonymous No.15560611]

>>15560583
Not lit related
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.15560617]

>>15560583
>We should improve society somewhat
>Yet you participate in society. Curious! I am very intelligent
.JPG

[Anonymous No.15560621]

>>15560606
Good post

[Anonymous No.15560626]

>>15560583
Liberalism functions by authorities promoting riots/protests by marginal elements in society to expand the power of said authorities in the name of protecting them.

[Anonymous No.15560639]

>>15560617
>We should improve society somewhat
>Yet the metric by which you assess societal improvements has been constructed by the very system you claim to oppose
Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous No.15560641]

>>15560606
Very well put
>>15560583
You should read some Frankfurt school people. Benjamin's work of art in the age of its mechanical reproducability and Theses on the philosophy of history. Marcuse's Repressive tolerance and affirmative character of culture. Horkheimer and Adorno's Dialectic of Enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.15560648]

>>15560639
>He didn't understand the other anon
Kek, read barthes

[Anonymous No.15560652]

>>15560617
Reveling in its excesses isn't the same as mere participation.

[Anonymous No.15560653]

>>15560583
404 this lazy redundant bait thread.

[Anonymous No.15560668]

>>15560648
>Barthes
Brainlet alert! Read Derrida

[Anonymous No.15560706]

>>15560583
Read the first few chapters of Industrial society and its future. Once you understand the characteristics of the modern left you will understand why they do what they do. Spoiler alert, they were over-socialized as children and now can't exercise any autonomy over their lives and/or power process without feelings of immense guilt.

[Anonymous No.15560728]

>>15560606
This
>>15560617
But also this.

[Anonymous No.15560743]

>>15560617

[Anonymous No.15560908]

>>15560617
That comic is the biggest cope. It's like "anprims" on here who somehow spend hours a day chatting about how based Uncle Ted is while apparently still using their computer all day.

[Anonymous No.15560932]

>>15560583
McAnarchy

[Anonymous No.15560938]

>>15560617
That's not at all what he's saying, retard,

[Anonymous No.15560952]

>>15560908
"It would be hopeless for revolutionaries to try to attack the system without using SOME modern technology. If nothing else they must use the communications media to spread their message." -Theodore J Kaczynski "Industrial society and its future" paragraph 202.

[Anonymous No.15560974]

>>15560952
Yeah they're definitely spreading his message by acting autistic on 4chan. Ironically it actually wasn't them but one of his critics that convinced me to read his book.

[Anonymous No.15560986]

>>15560974
Ok techophile

[Anonymous No.15560999]

>>15560986
Cringe. I don't think I've "talked tech" with someone since 2015.

[Anonymous No.15561011]

>>15560583
It's the thing I've always wanted to understand: why would an anti-system movement present in most stratas of society, financially supported by some of the elite, rarely derided or fought against, be the major threat to the system while its so called tools (far right) get assraped at every corner?

[Anonymous No.15561027]

>>15561011
"The revolution will be sponsored"

[Anonymous No.15561062]

>>15560617
lmao based

[Anonymous No.15561072]

>>15561011
We’re living in an ever-repeating simulation of 1960’s social and economic reterritorialization, and that social breakdown and reformation only happens in ways amenable to the interests of Capital.

It would take forever to explain here, but when you look at stuff like George Floyd and the 1619 Project, it is glaringly apparent that corporate interests, represented through their media outlets, see the spectacle of perpetual race-war, a white man whipping his black slave forever, as a more valuable paradigm of social conflict than anything (Heaven forbid) rooted in class or economic struggle.

So we are saturated by this race-war spectacle and encouraged to act on it in peculiar ways. Here, we are told that the only way to stay the slave master’s hand is to abolish police departments. What this means in practice is the reterritorialization of law enforcement on grounds amenable to the professional-managerial class (out with working-class brutes, in with humanitarians with college degrees), eliminating one of the few high-paying public-sector jobs from the grasp of high school graduates, and securing sinecures for otherwise unemployed failsons.

Amazon rules everyone’s mind. Neat to see it in action.

[Anonymous No.15561080]

What are you supposed to do? inmediately cease any activism or abandon any ideology that gets positive mentions by a brand?

[Anonymous No.15561093]

>>15561072
I hate knowing this. I wonder if I would be happier just being the typical NPC liberal type. Because knowing that our true issues will never actually be solved and that any attempt at class revolution will be scorned and put down by the entrenched ruling elite is just so disheartening.
So yeah, I really do wonder if I'd be happier watching The Office and liking black squares on Twitter.

[Anonymous No.15561098]

>>15561080
Not necessarily, but if the King of France starts buying you guillotines, that may present a moment for serious re-assessment of what you’re actually up to.

[Anonymous No.15561108]

>>15561072
Any reading recommendations for this critique of "spectacle" control by elites?

[Anonymous No.15561110]

>>15561093
Nah. That’s gay.
We must always be jolly Cossacks writing letters to the Sultan, never his grim Janissaries.

[Anonymous No.15561118]

>>15561108
Baudrillard is the best by far. Debord does some good stuff too. But those are the two definitive commentators on this narrative fuckery.

[Anonymous No.15561123]

>>15561011
it's theatre

>>15561080
learn to identify astroturf and recuperation
this might have sprung up spontaneously but it was quelled by social peace activists and government officials within a matter of days

[Anonymous No.15561124]

>>15560583
>/lit/

[Anonymous No.15561129]

>>15560611
>>15561124
We’re talking Baudrillard in here, take a chill pill.

[Anonymous No.15561131]

>>15561123
>identify astroturf and recuperation
what?

[Anonymous No.15561145]

>>15561011
No one has claimed the far right is the main tool of the elite. Liberalism is.

[Anonymous No.15561152]

>>15561110
I know but like...what's the point? Seeing the Idpol shit online and the obvious chess board for the ruling class that these riots have been has been a major blackpill.
People don't actually want change, they probably don't know they even could have ACTUAL change. They think they're doing something by doing what's in reality nothing. Why should I waste time thinking about what will never come when I could just assimilate into society again? I don't want to but I think current events have destroyed my will to want any change. The other people it would help apparently don't even want it. They just like thinking they're changing the world by doing the road laid out for them by the people who profit.

[Anonymous No.15561159]

>>15560583
"supported by"? I had no idea that corporate greed for my sweaty faggot dollars was a form of support, thanks for enlightening me

[Anonymous No.15561169]

>>15561152
Since I can tell you’re a leftist, you read actual leftist theory on race because no one claims it’s some epistemological thing as opposed to a “material relation” in the same way class is.

[Anonymous No.15561182]

>>15561131
fake grassroots movements and the process in which a radical movement or idea is culturally normalized and neutralized
you just saw the latter happen in real time

[Anonymous No.15561196]

>>15561152
These are big questions, anon, and too big for me. I wonder about the dissidents in the Soviet Union. Did they really hope their samizdat would collapse the system, or did they get some kind of sick pleasure out of being rabbits chased by foxes all the time?
But I will say that this despair was put in you on purpose. That’s what all the cancellations are about.
>>15561169
Lmao, give me a break. Nobody claims it because they’re rightfully too embarrassed to. But they sure believe it. Better just to clumsily graft class conflict onto 18th century race science and call it theory.

[Anonymous No.15561202]

>>15561196
>Lmao, give me a break. Nobody claims it because they’re rightfully too embarrassed to. But they sure believe it.
No, they don’t. Exactly what Leftist stuff on race have you read to come to this conclusion? The mainstream liberals certainly treat it as something that’s epistemological (to more or less a degree) but that’s certainly not in Leftist theory on it.

[Anonymous No.15561207]

>>15560606
Just kill them. We're dealing with overpopulation, and also using such people in macabre scientific experiments can also help gain a lot of new medical knowledge. I feel invasive experiments on such people is far less bad than using noble animals like rats.

[Anonymous No.15561225]

>>15561207
I hate to say that I sort of agree with you. Are these people even human? I don't want to kill them but it's truly depressing seeing that these people have been conditioned so hard. Not a single unique thought in their body, no critical thinking skills, no purpose in life, they have no God apart from the dollar sign..

[Anonymous No.15561228]

>>15561202
That might be true, but Leftists have been so subsumed into the radlib hivemind on the issue of race that I see any distinctions on the issue as more postural (“no, no, I’m not a liberal, my stance is certainly more refined...”) than substantive. I’d love to see one that doesn’t ultimately concede the dynamic to the liberal geist of white supremacy, but I haven’t found one.

[Anonymous No.15561243]

>>15561225
I would gladly kill them because they are getting in my way. They corrupt and contaminate anything they touch with their endless simple-minded narratives. Is it okay if you tell me your opinion on this video? Please listen to the whole thing before giving constructive criticisms:
https://youtu.be/OkiqFBH2Qoo
It is tangentially related to the topic at hand.

[Anonymous No.15561247]

>>15561228
Right so like I thought you haven’t read any of this stuff and you have this straw man set up where white supremacy is some sort of epistemological error. To start you can check out David R. Roediger for labour history or Franz Fanon for colonial theory.

[Anonymous No.15561277]

>>15561207
>>15561225
This is what elites want. Population reduction will be the next big meme they push, after "eat bugs it's good for the environment," "dont have kids, it's good for the environment," and "let barely literate immigrants take over your country, its moral." Of course, the elites don't have to do any of this stuff. This is for phasing out the rubes, and reducing any remaining rubes to mixed-race cattle who can be exterminated at will.

Always do the opposite of what mainstream journalism and its corporate owners tell you.

[Anonymous No.15561284]

>>15560606
>>15561207
>>15561225
Suburbanite predisposition to violence in action.

[Anonymous No.15561292]

>>15561277
Well, it seems they want to kill the wrong people like educated white men. It would make more sense to sterilize or kill the unruly Muslim refugees, niggers, and kikes (oh God please).

[Anonymous No.15561307]

>>15561247
LMAO. Roediger and Fanon literally drew the map for the radlib understanding of race, they use the metaphysical concept of “whiteness” in every fucking tract they write.
Scratch the surface of every Very Serious Theoretical Leftist, and there’s an idpol liberal right underneath. Exactly as I said.

[Anonymous No.15561310]

>>15561277
>This is what elites want. Population reduction will be the next big meme they push,
I don't want population reduction, I was just reflecting on how sad these people are.
>>15561292
>Muh nigs
Fuck off, you're literally just as bad as the people you're railing against. If they killed the blacks and Jews you'd probably be completely fine with them running your life. I see no difference between you and the "bugman consumer" apart from the fact you think you're some sort of enlightened realist

[Anonymous No.15561327]

>>15561310
Wait, I said to kill the Muslims, blacks, and Jews. It means I can finally go camping without fear of being murdered. Japan is a relatively homogeneous society and people camp there all the time.
I've had to decapitate noble rats for my neurobiology lab. It traumatized me. I don't see the issue of doing this with niggers like George Floyd though. It can also help me vent my frustrations. Imagine being able to find a cure to Alzheimer's disease by cracking the skulls of niggers?

[Anonymous No.15561332]

>>15560583
many people do not realize that money is controlled by banks
ask them where they think money comes from
it will make them angry

[Anonymous No.15561333]

>>15560583
Why are you so gullible that token PR campaign gestures read to you as identical to clandestine institutional political backing?
Do you just believe everything you see on the commercial breaks?
>>15561080
No, you're meant to see through their performance and drive harder bargains. The public relations stunts are meant to gloss over actual discontent, and paint substantive action as unreasonable overreach
>>15561098
PR statements are not guillotines. In fact, I'd say if the king is coming out of the castle to awkwardly try to laugh and pretend we were actually friends the whole time that's just damage control
>>15561011
Because they're a captured base to rile up based on the promise that there should always be at least somebody that is below them. If they don't ask for more, why give it to them?
Also people tend to forget that most Western Countries have had real political purges of anti-capitalists within the last few generations, so the only real opposition is a class of middle-managing consultants, who more conservative poor people correctly understand won't offer them anything either, so they'll stick with the people who at least pretend to share their aesthetics.
Please understand though, that when they elites voice support for social and labor justice causes they too are just pretending to share the aesthetics

[Anonymous No.15561348]

>>15561327
>I've spent so much time online consuming propaganda that I actually think negroes and muslims will behead me the second I step outside. God, why is big business siding with them? Why not me!! I'd be perfectly happy living as a zombie to their interests as long as they kill the Jewws!

[Anonymous No.15561359]

>>15561333
The right wing conception of "the system" is a vague network of unnamable (mostly jewish) "elites" who hoard all of the power as if it's material rather than a system of economic relationships

[Anonymous No.15561379]

>>15561348
He's right that black communities are dangerous for people who don't belong there, and even for those who do, and that Muslims are violent and worse, invasive with no intention of integrating. He's not wrong about wanting a restoration of order in locations where these communities are causing problems either through random violence or erratic terrorism. He's wrong that the solution is to genocide them. They're just retards being used by the system to keep people divided. You can fix things without genocide.

Just let things take their natural course and people will naturally create healthy communities. Nobody wanted Muslims here. It was business interests and governments in cahoots with eachother that brought them over, knowing full well it was to the detriment of the local populations. Just stop those faggots from reverse engineering "their" societies into autonomous labor/consumerism zones and the problem will fix itself.

Black communities were doing fine for a good while before this shit weaponized them. Muslims would naturally drift back to their home countries if there were actual standards on their conduct and productivity to stay in western countries.

[Anonymous No.15561389]

>>15561159
You're not actively being deplatformed, that is support.

[Anonymous No.15561390]

>>15561379
>Just let things take their natural course and people will naturally create healthy communities. Nobody wanted Muslims here. It was business interests and governments in cahoots with eachother that brought them over
Economic convenience is the reason any social relation developed. In fact it's basically the reason anybody moves anywhere. Whatever your conception of a "healthy" society is was created because it was economically beneficial.

[Anonymous No.15561403]

>>15561389
Because there would be actual consequences for deplatforming people who can organize protests

[Anonymous No.15561412]

>>15561390
Social relations develop because human beings want them to develop, which means they come from values. Values are not subject to economic or utilitarian "logic." Economic and utilitarian "logic" are systems of values favored by some people. If you come into a community of people with different values, let's say Poland, and start telling them about what's really "economically convenient" or really "healthy" according to you, and how it conflicts with their ethnic solidarity or Catholic identity, they would ask you to leave. If you didn't leave, they would make you leave. That's how social relations develop.

People have been trying to ask you to leave for a long time. Eventually they stop asking.

[Anonymous No.15561413]

>>15561403
Does he...not know? Honestly Anon, leave this site while you still can. It'll be better for your mental health in the long run.

[Anonymous No.15561419]

BLM is the biggest union buster of all time, it's practically criminal how much power they hold just because some nigger got his feelings hurt.

[Anonymous No.15561422]

>>15561403
>>15561419
Rightoids and liberals are so unenlightened it's actually kind of funny. Still though I agree with >>15561413

[Anonymous No.15561428]

Corporations are the ones appropriating the "rebellion"

[Anonymous No.15561438]

>>15561412
If someone offered every pollock a million dollars and a mansion to live in in Texas most of them would probably take it. I'm sure some wouldnt, but most people's "strong ethnic solidarity" has a price.

[Anonymous No.15561440]

>>15561428
What book is that? Would like to read it.

[Anonymous No.15561443]

>people feel strongly about x? I guess we should incorporate it into our ads so people will think better of us and buy our products

Its not like you'll see amazon supporting communism or even socialism or something. Its all just issues surrounding identity politics

[Anonymous No.15561452]

>>15561443
>Its not like you'll see amazon supporting communism or even socialism or something
I genuinely wonder if they will. It would completely de-legitimize American socialists and solidify Amazon's reign over all people. It could completely backfire of course but I could see it working.

[Anonymous No.15561458]

>>15561440
Probably Capitalist Realism

[Anonymous No.15561462]

>>15561333
>PR statements are not guillotines
They’re effectors towards end in an information society, anon, same as guillotines used to be. Don’t be a goose.

>>15561359
>economic relationships aren’t material
Hmmm. You’ve got me doing an awfully big think here.
Also, they’re eminently nameable. I often hear Jeffrey Bezos’ thrown around. CEO of Amazon, maybe you’ve heard of the guy.

[Anonymous No.15561464]

>>15561428
Corporations can't appropriate what they created. The "rebellion" was always-already captured by the system.

[Anonymous No.15561474]

>>15561464
Explain. How was "the system" behind counter-culture before complete neolib dominance?

[Anonymous No.15561475]

>>15560583
Leftists don't have enough brain power to even formulate your question.
They are already part of a cult that is completely hermetic to any real data and real struggle analysis.
Pack it all up, it's over.

[Anonymous No.15561476]

>>15561464
This one gets it.

[Anonymous No.15561483]

>>15561475
>Muh leftists
Stop referring to idpol libshits as leftists, I fucking beg you.

[Anonymous No.15561491]

>>15561462
If you killed Bezos right now, Amazon would have another CEO in the morning. Bezos isn't the CEO of capitalism, nor does he control it, nor did he invent it, his obscene wealth is a result of him creating the best way to sell and ship books over the internet and eventually expanding to sell more than books. He's an overpaid bookseller and executing him wouldn't destroy capitalism any more than killing the president destroys the united states.

[Anonymous No.15561494]

>>15561474
Because there is no such thing as spontaneous organisation. Ontologically, all human interactions are top-down.

[Anonymous No.15561495]

I don't see what's wrong with ethnic cleansing of nigger hooligans, Muslim savages, and subversive kikes. Also, this is a very /lit/ post and banning me over it means censorship!

[Anonymous No.15561500]

>>15561474
Plenty of professors, the guys acting as the philosophical engines for the 60’s and post-60’s counter-culture, were literal employees of intelligence agencies (Marcuse is one good example). Corporate media drew up the spectacle and marketed the cultural trinkets. Also, shit like pic related.
A better question would be to what degree the system wasn’t involved.

[Anonymous No.15561508]

>>15561464
That's kind of the point of the book

[Anonymous No.15561510]

>>15561491
>elites are unnameable
>here’s a named elite
>b-b-but he’s not the king of all capitalism
Yes, elites circulate, as they always have. What the fuck are you on about?

[Anonymous No.15561520]

>>15561483
So which term would you think is more appropriate? As far as I'm concerned, we're seeing the convergence of the corporate elite and the social justice leftists demanding strict equality by taking action and slowly mutate into a weird cult-like mentality. With its dogmas, its faith, its priests and preachers, its proselytists (propagandists) etc.
I can distinguish the historical Left from "leftists" but that's a really nuance distinction that is irrelevant today anyway.

[Anonymous No.15561521]

>>15561494
>>15561500
Yeah you guys seem to be approaching this from a distinctly exclusively 20th/21st century mindset.
How did "the system" create say, socialism? Or street gangs? Both are counter-culture to varying degrees and I see no argument as to how "the system" created them.

[Anonymous No.15561523]

>>15561483
Makes the situation confusing when 98% of self-proclaimed “leftists” are idpol libshits. It’s a distinction only a tiny minority of either side draws, so what good is it?

[Anonymous No.15561528]

>>15561464
This, although corporations are not ones creating these movements, its the social engineers who work with corporations.

[Anonymous No.15561531]

>>15561520
>So which term would you think is more appropriate?
Neo-liberals.

[Anonymous No.15561538]

>>15561521
Because we’re living in a 20/21st century paradigm? Saturation of mass media seems to be having some sort of an effect on politics. Television and social media are relatively new phenomena, no? Would you rather we talk about this from a 17th century mindset?

[Anonymous No.15561549]

>>15561538
You said this:
>Corporations can't appropriate what they created. The "rebellion" was always-already captured by the system.
You could've just said the modern rebellion or whatever and I would have agreed but the 1800s are still relevant politically. "Always" means always, not just the past 70~ years.

[Anonymous No.15561558]

>>15561549
Okay, then if you wanna get picky, 19th century revolutions were merely circulation of the bourgeois elite into positions of power, replacing feudal and agrarian nobility, rather than absolute and total “revolutions,” as advertised. This happened as capitalism, and especially industrial capitalism, became a dominant organizing force in European society. That help?

[Anonymous No.15561563]

>>15561474
Conceptualize society as stratified into three layers -- a top, a middle, and a bottom. The middle, by definition, vies for the power of the top, lest it fall into the low. How does the top therefore secure its position against the middle? Contrary to popular belief, it does not form a coalition with its competitor, but rather foments dissent in the low against the middle -- mobilizes the former against the latter, in the name of an infringement of freedoms, rights, etc.

[Anonymous No.15561567]

>>15561558
>>15561549
Not the guy you were replying to, by the way.

[Anonymous No.15561593]

>>15561510
The point is that reducing the entire system of capitalism to a shadowy group of "elites" who plot and control everything is puerile nonsense. You can nuke bohemian grove, guillotine bezos, and send trump to exile on elba but it won't destroy the "system" or even make a meaningful change to it as long as wage labor and property still exist there will still be elites.

[Anonymous No.15561597]

>>15561563
>>15561474
Should have added that this fomented dissent takes the form of accordingly manufactured counter-cultural movements. "Counter-cultural" just means "anti-middle".

[Anonymous No.15561613]

>>15560583
Ignorance. Most of them don't know for example that Converse are owned by Nike.

[Anonymous No.15561618]

>>15561593
But the elites do have some degree of agency. You’re splitting hairs. Yes, they are limited by the constraints of the system, nobody’s denying that, but there are still individuals at the helm, and us right-wingers have a point there. Look at Epstein. Did market logic dictate half the shit he did?

Unless you’ve gone full Nick Land and the system is sentient, which is wacky but interesting enough that I like it enough just to concede for now and give you a friendly pat on the rump.

[Anonymous No.15561636]

>>15561182
Happened very fast too. In days.

[Anonymous No.15561640]

>>15561618
/leftypol/ fags like to show how above attacking concrete bad actors they are by saying "IT'S THE DIALECTIC!!!"

[Anonymous No.15561652]

>>15561593
The terms of any system of production must be represented (in language) before they exist. Consequently, capitalism is a human-mediated process.