/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15532958]

Did he ruin or save conservatism?

[Anonymous No.15533196]

He turned it into something completely antithetical to what it ought to be about. It became a vehicle for his own pet concerns, all because he was the 60s equivalent of a campus conservative.

[Anonymous No.15533229]

>>15532958
considering modern American "Conservatism" is an incoherent dumpster fire ideology, I'd say he couldn't have been such a great influence.

[Anonymous No.15533245]

>>15532958
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.15533251]

>>15533229
this

[Anonymous No.15533354]

He had a gr8 voice and that's it

He did Jack shit for conservatism otherwise

[Anonymous No.15533685]

>>15532958
OP is a queer

[Anonymous No.15533698]

>>15532958
He cleared out the antisemitic conspiratard trash.

[Anonymous No.15533712]

>>15533245
Quit linking /pol/, I'm never going back.

[Anonymous No.15533722]

>>15532958
Who this?

[Anonymous No.15533965]

Ruined. Whatever you want to say about Buckley, he basically made a big list of conservatives and divided them into two groups: those whose raised issues that could actually provoke change or alter the existing fabric of society, and those who wanted to pose as "old fashioned types" to no effect. Then he evicted the former.

[Anonymous No.15534007]

>>15533698
>he wasn't an absolute lunatic
if this is the nicest thing you can say about him...

[Anonymous No.15534022]

>>15534007
Well, I've never heard him say anything insightful or thought-provoking.

[Anonymous No.15534072]

>>15533698
Yeah, glad we got rid of those fringe weirdos so that conservatism could really flourish in the last 30-40 years.

[Anonymous No.15534183]

>all these Seething over Based Buckley

He saved Western conservatives by retaining their classical image but weeding out the radicals who would NOT survive in today's world.

Also, unlike the dinosaur conservatives who would avoid confrontation, he actually went head to head with Liberals.

[Anonymous No.15534189]

>>15534183
>he actually went head to head with Liberals
an excellent strategy

[Anonymous No.15534211]

>>15534183

Those conservative "radicals" would not survive today precisely because the left won every single ideological battle since Buckley's time. That's as much a proof that Buckley-style conservatism totally failed.

[Anonymous No.15534214]

>>15534183
>he actually went head to head with Liberals

yeah, losing a debate to a fucking nigger like James Baldwin and humiliating yourself in YOUR OWN SHOW to Chomsky must feel pretty great.

pathetic

[Anonymous No.15534220]

>>15532958

well if he saved it he didn't do a very good job

[Anonymous No.15534222]

He did offer a forum for showcasing rising stars like Sowell. Forever grateful for that.

[Anonymous No.15534240]

>>15532958
>>15533196

what would you say was the essential definition of conservatism that he ruined? what would you say was his essential definition of conservatism?

really interested in this but sorta new, sorry.

[Anonymous No.15534269]

>>15534072
ROGERU YAMERO

[Anonymous No.15534297]

>>15534240
Read Paul Gottfried's books The Conservative Movement and The Great Purge (which is about Buckley specifically) if you are interested.
https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/blog/how-buckleys-anti-communism-morphed-into-neoconservatism/

Mel Bradford once said something like, to be an authentic conservative today you have to be a reactionary, because merely being "conservative" isn't enough to conserve the things we're trying to conserve anymore, the processes of degeneration and overturn are too rapid and the enemies too numerous and well-organized.

Neoconservatism is a joke, it's neoliberals and lunatics who are just in it to be career politicians. It is hard to see how effectively real conservatism was crushed and replaced with this astroturf movement and not suspect intentional conspiracy.

[Anonymous No.15534421]

>>15534240
Buckley did his part in defaming and purging anyone who opposed mass immigration or slavery to Israel.

[Anonymous No.15534438]

>>15533698
So he's a bad guy?

[Anonymous No.15534445]

>>15532958
He ruived it.
Though others disagree and say he merely sained it.

[Anonymous No.15534533]

>>15534183
>he actually went head to head with Liberals.
I liked the fact that on firing line he would take conservatives to task too, he never really gave them a free ride.

>>15534214
the fact that he lost some debates actually proves the anon you're replying to's point

[Anonymous No.15534550]

>>15534072
>be white
>toil away at great sacrifice to btter the world for your people and country
>it was literally all for nothing because all the savages you fought to better mankind just moved into your country anyway and outbred your progeny like 3rd world animals
I would rather watch the world my ancestors built burn to the ground than let non-whites inherit it.

[Anonymous No.15534595]

>>15534214
>>15534183
>>15534533
I'm half convinced that Fuckley's entire purpose *was* to lose.

Imagine you're the American intelligence community, fresh with tons of cash and a whole playground of a planet to dip your grubby fingers into. You have radical elements on the right that could potentially foil your plans for American hegemony, so you have to deal with that somehow. Easiest way is to lead the opposition yourself. You set up a figurehead for conservatism (Buck obv), remove all his opponents by blackmail or blackballing, gradually reroute the public's political views toward the sort of GDP-first Zionist war-hawk neoconservatism *you* want, then sit back and reap the benefits.

The same thing happened to the left. Defense of the native worker was transformed into harmless idpol. Remember the WTO riots of the 90s? Neither does the left.

In the end, you channel the right and left into groups that flail about harmlessly but still end up doing what you want even if they do rebel. It's a brilliant "heads I win, tails you lose" strategy.

[Anonymous No.15534622]

>>15534595
Yep, good post. We've been fucked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdiVHtW1axs

https://www.johnderbyshire.com/Reviews/HumanSciences/cultureofcritique.html

"One evening early on in my career as an opinion journalist in the U.S.A., I found myself in a roomful of mainstream conservative types, standing around in groups and gossiping. Because I was new to the scene, a lot of the names they were tossing about were unknown to me, so I could not take much part in the conversation. Then I caught one name that I recognized. I had just recently read and admired a piece published in Chronicles under that name. I gathered from the conversation that the owner of the name had once been a regular contributor to much more widely read conservative publications, the kind that have salaried congressional correspondents and full-service LexisNexis accounts, but that he was welcome at those august portals no longer. In all innocence, I asked why this was so. "Oh," explained one of my companions, "he got the Jew thing." The others in our group all nodded their understanding. Apparently no further explanation was required. The Jew thing. It was said in the kind of tone you might use of an automobile with a cracked engine block, or a house with subsiding foundations. Nothing to be done with him, poor fellow. No use to anybody now. Got the Jew thing. They shoot horses, don't they?

Plainly, getting the Jew thing was a sort of occupational hazard of conservative journalism in the United States, an exceptionally lethal one, which the career-wise writer should strive to avoid. I resolved that I would do my best, so far as personal integrity allowed, not to get the Jew thing. I had better make it clear to the reader that at the time of writing, I have not yet got the Jew thing — that I am in fact a philosemite and a well-wisher of Israel, for reasons I have explained in various places, none of them difficult for the nimble web surfer to find."

>>15534240
Read Samuel Francis, Leviathan and its Enemies.

[Anonymous No.15534626]

Buckley refused to obey the Catholic Church when push came to shove, so fuck him. "Mater si, magister no." Fuck that. Bend the knee to Rome or get fucked. Catholics in the United States should never have joined up with the conservatives, it's brought us nothing but trouble. We should have spurned both political parties and gone independent.

[Anonymous No.15534655]

>>15534626
not Catholic or conservative, but you might be right. American-style conservatives who are also Catholic are some of the most embarrassing people you'll ever come across.

[Anonymous No.15534662]

>>15534655
Catholic conservatives in the US are often so smug about their "rock" (the church) that they don't do anything fucking else

Not much point in having a rock when you let everything else burn down around it

[Anonymous No.15534788]

>>15534622
That entire passage perfectly explains the nervous cognitive dissonance bubbling underneath every American pseudocon.

[Anonymous No.15534790]

>>15534662
Who gives a shit about anything that isn't the Church? Every time Catholics in this country have tried to play nice with other religions, other groups, and other elements, we've been burned. We've been used, derided, taken advantage of, and betrayed.

So fuck all the rest of you, frankly. Fuck all American non-Catholics. Fuck all American Protestants, fuck all American Jews, fuck all American Muslims, fuck all American atheists. Every last one of them can get fucked. The Church should look out for the Church, especially in a country that is as anti-Catholic at its foundations as the United States is.

The Orthodox are okay, I guess, but there's not a lot of them.

[Anonymous No.15535595]

bump

[Anonymous No.15536361]

>>15534550
The Sampson Option will soon become viable to all "white" countries

[Anonymous No.15536371]

>>15533196
I read this in his voice for some reason. Probably because you said “ought” which is a word he overuses in every single interview I’ve seen with him

[Anonymous No.15536378]

>>15532958
He ruined it. He helped enable the Globalist Zionist Republican "conservative" party and policies we see today. Also contributed to Neoliberalism. Fuck that lisping jew receiver

[Anonymous No.15536394]

>>15534595
This is all you need to understand. And it doesn't even have to be that conspiratorial. It could just have been money-power steering the narrative from both sides.

[Anonymous No.15536437]

>>15534550
people make fun of "we waz kangs" and then post shit like this

[Anonymous No.15536757]

>>15536437
>we were workers
hardly compares to
>we wuz kangs

[Anonymous No.15536807]

>>15534183
>no no no it's actually GOOD that he was fucking shite
you guys

[Anonymous No.15536822]

>>15534072
imagine the smell

[Anonymous No.15536982]

>>15532958
>did it ruin or save dogshit?

[Anonymous No.15536990]

>>15536822
looks like >>15536982 just did

[Anonymous No.15537532]

>>15532958
"Conservatism is Progressivism driving the speed limit"

Conservatism as an ideology seeks to maintain the status quo. The status quo in American and the UK being Progressivism since the earlier 20th Century.

A better question would be: "did he ruin or save The Right?" The answer is ruined.

Buckley and Neocons were rebels of the Progressive Elite. Their aim was not to dismantle Progressivism, but to reform it and make it more efficient. This is why the Rands and Rothbards were purged.

The Neocons achieved this in the 80s. Same thing happened in the UK with Thatcherism.

As someone else has mentioned, Samuel T. Francis covers this in Leviathan and Its Enemies

[Anonymous No.15538090]

queer

[Anonymous No.15538165]

>>15534790
>Amerimutts larping as catholics

[Anonymous No.15538432]

>>15538165
Where are you from?

[Anonymous No.15538449]

>>15537532
This

[Anonymous No.15538454]

>>15532958
More Like Cuckley

[Anonymous No.15538642]

>>15538454
BASED

[Anonymous No.15539548]

>>15533229
/thread