/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15519110]

Any good books on subversion? Anything from subversion tactics to the history of subversion in US international relations is what I am interested in. Yuri Bezmenov's lecture on it was very interesting and I was wondering if there are any books that go more in depth on it.

Also, I would be interested in any books that focus on subversion tactics that the US has employed on other countries as well.

[Anonymous No.15520015]

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>>15519110
Subversion isn't real retard, no elite is gonna allow themselves to buy into shit against their own best interests. Bezmenov is a meme.

[Anonymous No.15520416]

>>15519110
bezmenov was a defector selling bromides for neocon bux

[Anonymous No.15520471]

>>15519110
Bezmenov was just an informer, not an agent, he was never in a position to know anything serious about the KGB.

[Anonymous No.15520478]

>>15520364
>>15520416
>>15520471
Nice samefagging. If you actually disagree with Bezmenov then disprove his points instead of just name calling.

As for everyone else, thanks for all the book recommendations!

[Anonymous No.15520520]

>>15520478
Firstly, I can guarantee you that's not all samefagging as at least one of them is me. I don't know about the other two. Secondly, what I said doesn't even entirely discredit Bezmenov's ideas. Even if he wasn't real KGB, he could nevertheless have developed his own ideas of his own volition. They're not exactly entirely original in any case. Still, the fact that he wasn't (contrary to what OP pic would have you believe) an actual former KGB agent certainly somewhat discredits the citation of him and his ideas in the context of some ongoing subversion attempt of which he was a part, particularly a Soviet/Russian one.

[Anonymous No.15520522]

>>15520520
I meant to say only one of them is me.

[Anonymous No.15520533]

>>15520478
>people disagreeing with my /pol/ memes is only one person
Bezmenov is a meme, Soviet influence in the US was always minimal. Read Why Liberalism Failed.

[Anonymous No.15520589]

>>15520533
>Soviet influence in the US was always minimal
This isn't true. Both sides had a cultural war going on and the communists had penetrated a lot of the US either explicitly or through training/recruiting people. See pic related for one of many examples. They had people everywhere. You're as bad as the "cultural marxist" guys if you say this is one-sided and try to minimalize it. Post-Cold War Russian intelligence literature (mostly untranslated) is filled with similar conspiracy theories about their culture being undermined (google the "dulles' plan" for the russian equivalent of "cultural marxist" conspiracy theory). This was the consequence of the ideological war between liberals and communists.

PS

The books above by Bittman and the ones on Munzenberg are better than anything Bezmenov came out with.

[Anonymous No.15520635]

>>15520520
Since there were 3 posts in a row that each were short, similar in tone, and dismissive of Bezmenov I thought it was 1 guy. My bad for the false assumption.

Also I am OP and I just got that pic off the internet because I wanted a picture of him with that quote, I didn't pay attention to the KGB agent part, but you are right he his role was as an informer and the picture is slightly inaccurate in getting that wrong (the quote is correct though).

[Anonymous No.15520640]

>>15520028
Where can I download an epub or pdf of the book. I checked Libgen but it appears they don't have it

[Anonymous No.15520866]

>>15520478
it's impossible to disprove his points because he's not actually saying anything of substance to begin with

[Anonymous No.15520876]

>>15520635
put it this way, if there was some great effort of soviet agents to corrupt the united states from within, why would they keep at it after 1992? the soviet union hasn't existed for almost 30 years and it's not coming back. the only way not to get caught as a sleeper agent is to be diabolically intelligent or idiotically focused. in the former case they'd see the writing on the wall and just be normals, in the latter case they'd eventually out themselves with their autism. to believe that there's an entire army of subversive agents working tirelessly for a country that doesn't exist anymore and who are apparently infinitely more competent than their actual commanders is well and truly retarded

[Anonymous No.15520887]

>>15520589
having people on the inside is a very different beast from exploiting pre-existing dissidents (on both sides)

[Anonymous No.15520936]

>>15520876
It's not that they have been actively subverting the US since 1992, its that by the that point the damage was already done. Most professors at that point identified with leftist views, and a sizable portion of them held Marxist sympathies. Furthermore, at that point the culture had already taken a big shift in the leftist direction. Political correctness for instance first becomes a huge issue in the 90s, and its only gotten worse.

>to believe that there's an entire army of subversive agents working tirelessly for a country that doesn't exist anymore

This is how I know you haven't listened to or read anything Yuri said. He says explicitly "85% of the KJB's efforts were subversion, 15% espionage." There biggest priority was to increase leftist sympathies by having academics, journalists, and other significant figures in public perception increasingly write more positively on those things.

Your thinking about things too much like a James Bond movie, or like Twinkle Tailor Solider Spy, and not focusing on the boring reality which is that subversion is more important then espionage, and that subversion is a slow poison which can take decades to finally manifest.

[Anonymous No.15520958]

>>15520876
Even in his 1984 lecture Bedzemov says that soviet agents only had a secondary importance left in the process of continuous cultural subversion. Although it came from a first/second generations of subversives with soviet ties (from the 1920s to the 1960s), the large majority of it was completely out of their hands by the mid 1980s. It was home grown and could carry on without any further external impulse.

[Anonymous No.15520972]

Imagine being right-wing and being so BTFO by the reality that America and the world hate you and your values that you have to cope by telling yourself that everything is caused by a government that collapsed 30 years ago

[Anonymous No.15521600]

>>15519110
>Bezmenov
he's literally a grifter. Part of his schtick is making dumb americans feel like they're the ones who are informed. He's the one being subversive.

[Anonymous No.15522037]

>>15519110
The word you're looking for is "propaganda". There's a ton of books making claims that the Rockefellers/CIA/KGB/etc have subverted what otherwise would of been otherwise. Most of them are propaganda written by people with some sort of grudge. States engage in propaganda but Putin didn't cause Trump to get elected.

>>15520478
Did Vladimir Putin spread memes to boomers on facebook to discredit Hillary Clinton? Bezmenov claims line up exactly with what Senate reports came concluded under the Reagan administration. Now if some Indian communist newspapers under orders from Moscow spread Kennedy/AIDs conspiracy theories is of any real relevance is up to you.

>>15520589
There was no culture war by the 1950s because the Soviets lost and everything interesting was originating outside the USSR. No one seriously denies that the Soviets had influence on the arts and Western institutions in in the 1930s. The ridiculous claim is that all social developments in the West after the 1950s were some Soviet intelligence operation.

>>15520936
>85% of the KJB's efforts were subversion, 15% espionage
Except that's insanely wrong. The KGB was primarily about domestic oppression (it was CIA+FBI) in the USSR. Their economy by the 1980s was completely dependent on stolen technical information from the West. They couldn't dedicate that much resources to public perception in the West when they badly needed stuff like modern CPU designs to keep things going.

[Anonymous No.15522714]

>>15520936
by that logic we're being subverted by the kaiser via kindergarten. and don't even get me started on those perfidious romans