/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15518891]

A good psychedelic trip on acid or psilocybin is a far more rewarding experience and can expose your mind to the nature of existence and human thought as much if not more than reading a philosophic text can

agree or disagree

[Anonymous No.15518895]

>>15518891
>>15518891
Why not both? Reading philosophy and then taking psychedelics will lead to better trips

[Anonymous No.15518897]

>>15518891
you should read philosophical texts in order to have material to trip on

[Anonymous No.15518901]

>>15518895
also true. good counterpoint

[Anonymous No.15518902]

you should be doing both. experience the lsd trip, expose yourself to the though and then begin reading philosophy.

[Anonymous No.15518908]

>>15518902
reading whilst tripping is a waste of a trip for me though

[Anonymous No.15518912]

apples and oranges

[Anonymous No.15519018]

I would disagree some month ago, but after Salvia I know no book will ever be able to replicate such experience.

[Anonymous No.15519041]

>>15518891
4-HO-MiPT and 4-HO-MET are also worth doing

[Anonymous No.15519065]

>>15518891
I did almost every drug that i thought was interesting including many psychedellics and plato was deeper than all of that shit. Psychedellic philosophy is weak (muh uroboros, muh monism) BUT for personal growth it is better than philosophy. Fixed many of my issues. The problem is the less you know the more psychotic it can make you. In fact I used plato to fix my psychosis. Before that I had no concept of logic and drifted into insanity. The issue I have now is I understand philosophy on a level that I believe only few people can. I can now feel what the people who wrote philosophy were like personally and it helps me understand them on a deeper level. I got a panic attack reading nietzsche and my inner eye was so strong that I saw him in his room dancing maniacally. This image helped me understand him better. I could not do that before drugs. Before psychedellics I had very naive surface level interpretations. I learned to have a unique take on everything I read but the cost is that I am on the verge of insanity. When I thought about the will in terms of schopenhauer an image on my inner eye appeared of a spere that was absolutely empty on the inside but attracted layers on the outside. It presented itself as my subconscious and suddenly I understood schopenhauer. It was purely virtual which I believe is an understanding of the subconscious only few people have. What makes humans human is that they can have a virtual representation of the will (the inner pseudo dialectic when you think) which in turn also explained "cogito ergo sum", obviously. This thought gave me a small panic attack. Btw in the moment of deep contemplation I have deeper takes that transcend what I write here by a long shot, but I forget them afterwards

Be careful with psychedellics

[Anonymous No.15519096]

>>15519065
wtf

[Anonymous No.15519115]

>>15518891

Insight gained through revelation is inferior to insight gained through study, because for the supposed 'wisdom' you gain through revelation I'll just have to take your word. If you however gain insight through study you can teach me, even if I'm uninitiated.

[Anonymous No.15519167]

>Osho,
>Even though I did not understand what was happening, I have had enlightening experiences through the use of hallucinogenic drugs. I know that LSD is false, but what is, if any, the truth about mushrooms?

LSD is not false; LSD is as real as anything else. But the experience that is created by LSD is a false samadhi. Remember the distinction that I am making: LSD is not false, but the experience that is created under the impact of LSD is a false experience.

You say, "I have had enlightening experiences_" They were not enlightening experiences. They may have been lightning experiences, but not enlightening. They are flashes; you are not enlightened through them, you don't become a buddha through them. In fact, you become more of a mess out of them. LSD changes your body chemistry, as do mushrooms. It changes your body chemistry, it does not change you. It changes your body, just as food changes your body, air changes your body, the climate changes your body, the moon, the full moon changes your body. But you are not being changed by it. All those changes happen in the body; all those changes are chemical changes - not alchemical but only chemical.

[Anonymous No.15519222]

>>15519115
It is very unlikely that your trip will ammount to anything deeper than naive takes on eternity, uroboros images and non-duality. There is a reason why trip ideas match old mayan or ancient asian or whatever ancient cultures images and concepts. It is because these concepts are the lowest hanging fruits. Real philosophy transcends this naive spirituality. Even ancient philosophers take these thoughts further than any schmuck on acid could on his own. I would rather trust the cumulative wisdom of human history than myself on drugs. It is the only humble take and I hate those neo-jungians and "muh archetype" idiots (fuck you russel brand). Even ancient philosophers like plato produced more sophisticated thoughts than this let alone somebody like kant or nietzsche. If you believe psychedellic insights > philosophy than you are absolutely full of yourself. Sure buddy your trip beats thousands of years of cumulative study...

[Anonymous No.15519307]

People who view psychedelics as the road to greatness or spirituality are absolutely insufferable.

People have already posted it. While psychedelics might give people the sense of being "born-again", may give them some meaning to their lives, the problem is that these drug experiences don't offer logic. It's purely visceral. It can't solve everything in your life because you can't repurpose the information you're given. It's basically a false sense of enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.15519332]

>>15518891
A guy I know took philosophy as a major in college, ate a shitload of mushrooms on spring break, and decided to change to religious studies

[Anonymous No.15519334]

A good acid trip is like tilling the soil, if you dont plant any seeds later its useless

[Anonymous No.15519349]

>>15518895
Pretty much this.

You get more out of your trips the more you learn and engage in humanistic and introspective thought - before, during, and afterward.

[Anonymous No.15519377]

>>15519167
>creepy sex cult leader
>was addicted to nitrous oxide and valium
stop quoting this hack. LSD satori experiences are directly equivalent to the lightning flash experiences described in zen teachings. they're not any less enlightening, but the idea is to take it further so you are aware of it always, not just when you are tripping. over the wall and through the wall, you can still reach the same awareness.

[Anonymous No.15519387]

>>15518912
This.

For me personally, I find that tripping was a good way for me to become very, VERY in touch with my personality and to start observing myself more easily.

But it's far from enlightening. Literature has helped me to make sense of my reality a great deal more than tripping ever did. But I am fortunate for my experiences with LSD and psilocybin-- they were formative experiences that really did open my eyes to understanding how absolutely clueless everyone (myself included) really is about reality.

[Anonymous No.15519403]

no, a good psychedelic trip is completely experiential. you forget it after you've experienced it, it leaves no trace. it's amazing and wonderful for what it is.

a good philosophic text will leave some lasting impression on you (hopefully) and shape the way you think and feel about the world.

[Anonymous No.15519415]

Okay then, druggies, tell me what the meaning of life is? Thrill us all with your psychotic insights

[Anonymous No.15519445]

>>15519403
this

>>15519415
and fuck you, nigger. you have a lot to learn if you actually thinking riding a person off as a druggie will somehow make their experiences any less substantial than your own.

[Anonymous No.15519551]

>>15519445
Well if the bong fits, sweetie. Of course druggie fairy tales are less substantial than my own. I have the entire weight of science behind me, you have delusions created by ingesting harmful chemicals. You have a huge hurdle to clear before you can convince ME that you are worthy of my acknowledgment!

[Anonymous No.15519599]

>>15519551
and you have an itty bitty peepee! lmaooooooo the itsy bitsy spider came to laugh at your itsy bitsy, teenie weenie, peepee poopoo LOL!

[Anonymous No.15519605]

>>15519065
Oh my op it is so rare to see someone that understands this
All I have done are mushrooms around 6 or 7 times however iv'e experienced some very bad and good trips after the bad trips I find myself in a state of extreme anxiety everyday however with that comes the insight that you have been saying I found before theese trips i could dance around and play with ideas and it was a fun game thag didn't leave any earth shattering mark on me however after theese experiences the idea's and though have immeasurably came to life to the point where they can haunt me and smash me to the ground unable to move paralyzed I find when reading nietzsche and yung and other psychologists/philosophers i become inflamed in powerful emotion that I cannot explain when I think the beast of culture and the devil in man the the inevitable death and meaninglessness of everything it is as though as shadow posses me and extreme emotion torments me as i experience the death of all and the death of my self if that makes any sense I understand and feel theese insight on a level other people can't perceive it torrments me to the point where i faintly wish I could return the blissfull ignorance. I understand you

[Anonymous No.15519610]

>>15519551
Science is based on axioms that you cannot prove

[Anonymous No.15519646]

>>15519605
it's not that you've gone too far, you haven't gone far enough. great effort and great doubt precedes great understanding. you're not wrong, all things must come to an end, but this should point you in the direction that all attachment is suffering, because eventually there will be nothing to hang on to. once you realize that everything is meaningless and death is inevitable you are free to live in complete authenticity in the eternal present

[Anonymous No.15519648]

>>15518891
OP, how do i find LSD? or shrooms?

[Anonymous No.15519685]

>>15518912
oranges on shrooms are the best thing i've ever tasted second only to a chicken salad sandwich made on a croissant with coffee the first time i took LSD. I fucking hate chicken salad but on LSD it was godly.

[Anonymous No.15519781]

A good, thorough look at psychedelic drugs, their effects, but most importantly their nature and meaning from a philosophical/literary standpoint needs to be made. I might try after I experiment with them some more, however what really needs to be examined is... what are the possibilities of these experiences actually being, and what can we derive from them?

I take the stance that they aren't worthless for philosophical insight and understanding, but they aren't 'physically' anything more than hallucinations.

Anybody who babbles off about meeting god (in a literal sense) on psychedelics, or talks about "le aura", "le connection", or some crack theory about how we're all little pitter-patter vibrations, deviations from the one, the void, lalallalalalala is just more than likely just a quack. I don't like Terence McKenna for this reason, although admittedly I haven't done a deep dive into his ideas, but surface-level they're kind of silly.

But, if we look at the nature of the experiences as hallucinations so extreme that they make it seem like reality itself has been distorted, I don't think that cheapens the insight one can gain. Does the suspension of normal consciousness in such an extreme manner not help denote the limits of our consciousness and sense of being? The lasting effects of happiness and feelings of connectedness might be a result of the hallucinations rather than any understanding of a true underlying order (empirical, transcendental, or otherwise), but is it not healthy to try and integrate those feelings as long as you keep them in context from their origins? The experience itself I think is enough to shed new light on corners of the human condition.

I think the 'danger' of psychedelics (aside from the obvious risk of insanity or mental instability- which after a bad LSD trip I had I'm convinced are real and possible for everyone, or maybe I'm just latent schizo) is the ability to 'fool' yourself with them. At best, you get a pseudointellectual smug sense of superiority because you've 'figured' it out, and at worst you become one of the quacks I mentioned, blabbering about the great order and degrees of god, who speaks to you in color and the vibrations beneath the computer screens.

Maybe psychedelics do show a transcendent order or something, but until there is some convincing external evidence is it not best to take the view of a skeptic? I've never taken a truly reality-shattering dive (yet), but it seems those that do reach some revelation where they are convinced of some underlying order or property. This seems scary, because you're getting your 'proof' not from logic or empiricism, but from a drug.

Just food for thought. Maybe the hippies are right, we're all in a simulation run by alien geometric squares that want to tell us how to transcend our body and join them in the mandalaverse and emit musical-orbs made of pearlescence from our third eye for all eternity, separate from the void and earthly desire. Who knows?

[Anonymous No.15519944]

>>15518891
I don't know, I think it is true only for your first trips, and even then they expose you (although with MUCH more intensity) to philosophical views that have been often debated for thousands of years. It doesnt seem to me that LSD actually presents you new, original philosophical ideas, at best it can show you why some of them might be interesting.

[Anonymous No.15520367]

>>15519065
I think you underestimate philosophy on its own. The stuff you read, once you comprehend it, changes your entire perception of things. I've had some very clear turning points with some ideas where once I fully grasped them they become part of my body and the lense with which I see things. I remember when reading Wittgenstein I literally saw myself as sphere looking inwards. I also had a similar experience with Nietzsche, more than just 'getting' it I 'felt' it. He made me aware of so much that was already there, and it's not even on his writing but on the way he writes, there was such a deep understanding of the way mind and body interact with each other. He never put it into words but he was pointing at it through his usual critiques.

[Anonymous No.15520407]

There is not a single meaningful or coherent thought that any 'psychonaut' can share from their trips. NOTHING. I think there is some therapeutic value in psychedelic drugs when it comes to behavior but this mostly stems from the different perspective psyches give you (and the realization that it is even possible to have a different perspective) rather than any grand epiphany or spiritual event during the trip itself.

I admire the effort for enlightening but the fact is a cat will never be able to look beyond its cat world and no amount of DMT is going to change that

[Anonymous No.15520448]

>>15519781
>>15519944
>>15520407
Only materialists value psychedelics.

[Anonymous No.15520455]

>>15519307
behold the most spooked man on this website currently. imagine believing enlightenment or anything related to it could be anything but experiential

[Anonymous No.15520803]

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

[Anonymous No.15520815]

>>15518891
Disagree. It can make you feel like that's true but actually once the feeling recedes nothing of value is retained.