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/lit/ - Literature

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15517604 No.15517604 [Reply] [Original]

Where do I start with anarchism?

>> No.15517612
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15517612

>> No.15517614

>>15517604
Anarchism is for niggers who failed at being communists, and communism is for resentful niggers who failed at life. Find a better way.

>> No.15517621

Proudhon' Origins of social order and Fichte's Destiny of Man

>> No.15517636
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15517636

>>15517604

>> No.15517641

>>15517604
Don't. It's dumb

>> No.15517648
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15517648

>>15517604
>anarchism

>> No.15517649

>>15517614
If I do that someone will tell me that's retarded and tell me to go somewhere else. This will continue until I end up back at anarchism and you again direct me elsewhere.
If it is retarded I'll find that out myself.

>> No.15517653

>>15517641
>>15517648
t. Spooked

>> No.15517667
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15517667

>>15517604
By taking a look at these dubs

>> No.15517683
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15517683

>>15517667
Check it

>> No.15517690

>>15517614
>>15517641
>>15517648
Imagine wanting to be governed
Bottom text

>> No.15517698
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15517698

A sampling anthology for the earliest thinkers.
I haven’t looked at the second volume but I could compile a list for you if you want.

>> No.15517768

>>15517698
How is regulation supposed to work without a state? You need tens of thousands of people who aren't involved in the industry in any private way to oversee companies and have authority over them for regulation reasons. How do you do this without a state like structure?

>> No.15517783

>>15517690
better than living in Niggerland where everyone kills, loots and rapes without consequences

>> No.15517792

>>15517698
This looks great. A good entry so I can at least see if it's for me.
>I haven’t looked at the second volume but I could compile a list for you if you want.
Do whatever you feel like. If you did compile one I'd definitely take a look, though.

>>15517621
I'll check these out, as well. Thanks.

>> No.15517805

>>15517698
Butterfly can you give me tips for finding a girlfriend like you?

>> No.15517821

>>15517604
Just read the 19th century anarchists then work back to their republican sources

20th century """"""""""""anarchists""""""""""" are the most pants on head retarded people in the world, and deeply (often knowingly) complicit with the worst aspects of the dominant world order. They're radical liberals. Ignore all of them completely, without exception.

>> No.15517844

>>15517604
The ABC of Anarchism by Berkman

>> No.15517906

>>15517604
Start with Ellul. You can start by reading The Presence of the Kingdom and Anarchy and Christianity before moving on to The Technological Society and Propaganda.

>> No.15517957
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15517957

>>15517768
Direct democracy
-Democracy in the workplace
-Libertarian municipalism
The people of a given district decide the legislation, then elect the representatives to direct it. If they screw up they’re recallable by the people. Without money, the limited power isn’t even corruptible.

>>15517792
I liked Bookchin’s The Next Revolution
And Getting Free by James Herod . They’re next gen revision and fusions you might want to jump to.

>>15517805
Me first!
Volume volume volume. Make lots of friends. I know I’ve slacked off on this real world stuff. We need to escape from here, friend.

>> No.15517986

>>15517604
"The Conquest of Bread", by Peter Kropotkin is probably the most well known anarchist book.

>> No.15517995

>>15517957
>The people of a given district decide the legislation, then elect the representatives to direct it. If they screw up they’re recallable by the people. Without money, the limited power isn’t even corruptible.

That's not how regulation works. You need an outside force for regulation or things are going to get bad quick. The only reason people follow regulations is because of the threat of getting caught breaking them. You can't trust the cooperative to do it's own regulations.

>> No.15518005

>>15517604
1. Put dick in mouth

>> No.15518016

>>15517957
>Volume volume volume. Make lots of friends. I know I’ve slacked off on this real world stuff. We need to escape from here, friend.
It's hard the only place where it's consistent to make friends is school and work but neither of those are working well for me. None of my hobbies are social and everytime I go outside somewhere to meet people it's people are confined to their own friend groups and aren't looking to meet anyone. It doesn't help that I don't drink.

>> No.15518087

>>15517995
That’s ridiculous. Run it through a Scenario.
Local people will naturally know what they want for their region better than some representative government

>>15518016
Me either.

>> No.15518112

>>15518087
>That’s ridiculous. Run it through a Scenario.
>Local people will naturally know what they want for their region better than some representative government
Why and how are the local people going to enforce regulations? They aren't getting paid and they don't have the expertise to regulate industries.

>> No.15518120
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15518120

>> No.15518151

>>15517648
kys

>> No.15518245

>>15517604
Step 1:
Start listening the music of Wagner.

>> No.15518250

>>15518112
>they don't have the expertise to regulate industries.
Yeah, they literally do. And it’s all trainable anyway.
What kind of regulation? Cops in the news, the cop riots of 2020. Cops would not be all that necessary, but they’re from the neighborhoods they patrol and be more careful and compassionate with this arrangement.
Okay, say, food safety. Why wouldn’t they want clean food? I really don’t get your objections

>> No.15518281

>>15518250
>Yeah, they literally do. And it’s all trainable anyway.
Ah yes we are gonna get Aunt betty down the street to get an MA in chemistry so she can test the levels of certain chemicals at the food processing plant whenever she gets some free time.

>What kind of regulation?
Regulation in every industry from nuclear powerplants to car manufacturing

>> No.15518318
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15518318

>>15518281
Aunt Betty is perfectly trainable
Aunt Betty could work an asphalt roller

Unless you can come up with a real objection, you can stop posting.

>> No.15518334

>>15517604
The Conquest of Bread, Property is Theft, and The Ego and Its Own the only things I would read desu

>> No.15518376

>>15518318
If you aren't baiting you are delusional. One this isn't something that's just for fun or at the will of a generous neighbor. Regulation needs to be done on a regular basis and you need oversight of the all the people regulating to make sure everything is up to code. You can't just hope that Aunt Betty is feeling well enough today to pop by the local nuclear powerplant and make sure everything is looking good. There needs to be heavy background checks and constant checking on the regulator. All of this will take an extreme amount of funds to get the point of safety like we have under our current system.

Two we aren't talking about having the neighbors clean the road in their spare time because they want a clean place to live. You can't just pick up random people off the street to regulate a nuclear powerplant. You would have to give them an insane amount of training. This isn't a thing you do as a hobby. This is a full time job. This is why people get paid upwards of 150k to regulate industries. It's not easy.

>> No.15518494

>>15518376
>Regulation needs to be done on a regular basis and you need oversight of the all the people regulating to make sure everything is up to code.
And you think ...people can’t do that. Who do you think is doing it now?
>You can't just hope that Aunt Betty is feeling well enough today
People are trainable. If someone isn’t feeling well, they can call in sick. Like they do now.
> an extreme amount of funds
That’s also a dumb point, but here let me tell you about that other component I mentioned. There’s no accumulative money currency. That shit’s the embodiment of corruption. Replaced with A non accumulative currency, resources and people become the most valuable things in society

Oh, and fuck nuclear. Call me when you can make the waste disappear
>insane amount of training
Still not an argument. People get “insane” training now, they can get them later.

>> No.15518532

>>15518494
>And you think ...people can’t do that. Who do you think is doing it now?
People who are getting paid upwards of 150k by the government given to them from taxes. Along the other organizations (which cost money for salaries too) who focus on the logistics part. They aren't doing this out of goodwill.

>People are trainable.
People are trainable but who is going to do it? This needs to be a full time job. Who is paying these people to regulate industries?

>> No.15518643

>>15518532
>They aren't doing this out of goodwill.
Well they’re unqualified (in post-capitalism) now
> who is going to do it?
In a post-capitalist dwindling state of the future, so many superfluous bullshit jobs would just disappear! So many people would be put out of work. And yet, no one would be impoverished this way. They’d have tons of time on their hands, working a 20 hour /week tops. You aren’t presenting a problem here, anon.

>> No.15518673

>>15518643
You are so delusional it's insane. I want the revolution to come so the economy can collapse and I can laugh in your face for being so retarded Do you think there are hundreds of thousands of people who are just dreaming for the day we have the socialist utopia and they can finally become a regulator for private car manufacturing plant and the are gonna work 60 hours a week for free because again their life dream was to regulate a car manufacturing plant?

>> No.15518716

>>15518673
Your concerns aren’t answered by this repeated question you ask again.
I made book recs ITT

>> No.15518730

>>15518716
Nice job. That's what every socialist says once they lose the debate and can't answer a question "Just read theory bro it's all in there". I'm sure if you weren't busy you would be able to answer all my questions :)

>> No.15518733

>>15517604
dont,
read the communist manifesto and capital
also read state and revolution as well as imperialism the highest stage of capitalism

>> No.15518742
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15518742

>>15517604
“Anarchy, state and Utopia” will stop you being retarded pretty early

>> No.15518748

>>15518733
Op wants to learn about anarchism, not become to biggest bootlicker to rich, well connected politicians

>> No.15518845

>>15518716
Wait let me just ask one question. If a job currently costs the government 150k a year to give out because they can’t anyone to do the work for any less do you think the same job is gonna be done for free under the socialist revolution? If so why?

>> No.15518971

>>15518748
learn what about anarchism, that muh state bad
muh ussr was athoritarian, bash red fash and cooperate with capital nothing really profound there

>biggest boot licker to the rich
nigga you what, communism damaged golbal capitalism so much that we live rent free in the minds of the imperialists to this day, you cant say that about anarchism

>> No.15518980

>>15518971
*global

>> No.15519015
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15519015

>>15517604
The Bread Book

>> No.15519038

>>15518730
That wasn’t a debate. That was me trying to answer a question that was repeated over and over. You wanna try again? Ask a question and try not to counter it with “it take hard training” etc.

>>15518845
There it is. Under a voucher system they’re paid, and they have no worries for want. They don’t have to be there 24/7 or 40per week. If he’s a workaholic sort, he can just take up any number of projects to fill his time. Freedom, anon.

>> No.15519049

>>15519038
Who is paying them

>> No.15519061

>>15519049
Use more intelligent lines of reasoning please. This isn’t /pol/, and I’d like to believe the conservatives here have more intelligence than that :3

>> No.15519068

>>15519061
It's the most important question so far. Who is paying the regulators to regulate if it's not the government from tax dollars?

>> No.15519075
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15519075

>>15519049
They’re working. That pays them.

>> No.15519083

>>15519075
What? Where do the vouchers come from? Do they print their own?

>> No.15519116

>>15519083
No real need for that. It can be all digital. And no one would steal them since they’re your vouchers and only you can use them. All the details in that book.

>> No.15519145

>>15519116
No I mean who is paying for the regulators to regulate. Normally it's a government service paid for by tax dollars since there isn't any profit being made. Who pays for the expensive vouchers for the regulators?

>> No.15519291

>>15519145
It might shock you to know this, but things don’t actually cost money

>> No.15519308

>>15519291
Really that's weird. If that's true why I gotta pay for shit

>> No.15519359

>>15518494
I like your anarchy takes but what would you propose instead of nuclear? My understanding is wind power is highly inefficient and wonky, solar is inefficient and panels are non-recyclable and a huge producer of waste themselves. It seems like every option has big downsides. Nuclear waste containment I thought was relatively well thought out and effective.

>> No.15519411

>>15517683
>>15517667
Heh, check this out

>> No.15519435

>>15519411
based department on hold for you

>> No.15520903

>>15518971
Proudhoun was literally a cuck and ignored Marx, and later called for Nationalized banking system. Just like the Nazis

You’re a massive cuck to banksters and corporate sheep. Deal with it.

>> No.15520929

>>15518673
You've hit the reality block Anarchists have which is normally what turns them into Fascists.

>> No.15520937

>>15517604
>Where do I start with anarchism?
You can start by burning down the house

>> No.15520961

>>15518016
I wish I still drank, but I had to go to rehab and quit or else I would be dead by 30. Now I don't know how to meet people either. I'm hoping that my next work place will offer me some useful social connections.
Currently all I do is move from city to city, from job to job.

>> No.15521037

>>15518376
Is this really how Americans think?

>> No.15521040

>>15521037
They don't

>> No.15521046

>>15519359
Every option has major downsides. Widespread nuclear would be the only way to continue to meet our current energy levels post-fossil fuel but given how long they take to come online (minimum 10 years) and the hilariously impossible amount of them we would need to construct, it's too little, too late.

>> No.15521055
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15521055

>>15517604

>> No.15521121

it seems that the most important distinction between anarchists and communists is that anarchists place the individual as the primary unit of society. the individual's liberty mist be maximized and hierarchies that impede the individual torn down. tearing down the state is perfectly reasonable if your goal is to maximize individual liberty.
where as communists and marxists more generally afford some level of focus to the individual but acknowledge the the individual must at times be secondary to the needs of the collective at large. the collective is sometimes primary in communism whereas it never seems to be in anarchism. a state is useful for determining the will of the collective an enacting it, and this enaction may sometimes be authoritarian because some individuals may not agree with the will of the collective and need to be motivated to do so via some form of coercion.
i look at all of butterflys posts in this thread and think "these are all standard positions of leftcoms/marxists. marxists and anarchists are really not so different. why must there be so much bickering?" because surely when anarchists day that anarchism is based on mutual cooperation like in >>15521055 they are surely appealing to a moment where the collectives health is prioritized over individual disagreements on What Must Be Done. in mutual cooperation you are necessarily submitting yourself to the hierarchy of the local community, your liberty is not primary for that moment. am i stupid? am i missing something? i am an illiterate so i suspect i am.

>> No.15521190

>>15521055
If anarchy became established in society, I would literally enslave people like that.

>> No.15521233

>>15517690
Who said I want to be governed? I'm gonna be the one governing, faggot.

>> No.15521691
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15521691

was he gay?

>> No.15521986

>>15520903
believe what ever makes you feel comfortable anarkiddy

>> No.15522026

>>15521055
This person is a retard. I’m sympathetic to anarchism but let’s not pretend the early 1900s were devoid of anarchists bombing and murdering people lol

>> No.15522047

>>15521055
anarchism has also done nothing significant in destroying capitalism, and they denounce others who tried

>> No.15522261

>>15521233
Every fashoid thinks they'll be at the top of the hierarchy.

>> No.15522273

>>15521055
>anarchists have never killed people because of who they are
They killed tons of people for being rich or elected.
>Anarchism is a philosophy of peace, love
They were the most notorious terrorists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. It took decades of psyops to neuter them into the useless lifestylists of today.

>> No.15522274

>>15522261
Every leftist thinks in words

>> No.15522283

>>15522274
You don't think at all.

>> No.15522416

>>15517636
Stirner is the opposite of an anarchist. You would know that if you read him, but you have clearly only been made familiar with him through secondary sources.

>> No.15522457

>>15522283
Your worldview is spoonfed to you by sociopathic men in suits

>> No.15522469

>>15517604
Bottom-up control doesn't even make sense, but it does help us understand what the anarchists are really after.

>> No.15522633

>>15517768
Blockchain

>> No.15522827

>>15519308
It’s the law. You familiar with Max Stirner?

>>15519359
Improvements on clean energy and a drop in power consumption. There’s too much nuclear waste as it is. If they want it to continue they have to make what waste there is disappear. I think we’d harness fusion before then.
But if there’s a people that decide to go and build nuclear power Plants, what can the rest of us do?
It’s a decision for them if they want to go anarcho-primitivist or futurist or whatever.

>>15521190
You would be taken to a re-education facility
>>15522026
This. The internet is full of weak tweets like this.
>>15522469
It makes perfect sense. Read any of the books.
>>15522416
Stirner spoke of the individual, and lightly mentioned the union of egoists. His philosophy speaks to the basics of anarchism. This is why we bring him up. There is a misunderstood tug of war in anarchist circles between the individualists and the collectivists

>> No.15522948

>>15522827
>You would be taken to a re-education facility
Oh, so you have absolutely no idea what anarchism is, huh? Good to know you retard.

>> No.15523000

>>15522948
Well, if the people that caught you believed in free will, they wouldn’t be as nice as to re-educate you. They might just kill you, I donno. But yeah, no one is going to allow the slave trade in a free world, you villainous twit.

>> No.15523149

>>15519049
heh retard

>> No.15523230

>>15522827
>It’s the law. You familiar with Max Stirner?
Max Stirner says people are going to work jobs for 60 hours a work without getting anything from it? That's really weird. I don't know about you but I wouldn't be working in construction if I wasn't getting paid.

>> No.15523237

>>15523000
>no one is going to allow the slave trade in a free world
Hahaha, low quality bait.

>> No.15523299

>>15517698

Go the fuck back to twitter you ugly tranny

>> No.15523310

>>15523230
Stirner points out the infamous “spook”. Law is a fiction anon. And money is just “legal tender”. Make vouchers the tender and there’s no need for dollars. People will start to realize they don’t even need to take the voucher, they could just give the pair of shoes or whatever. There’s your payment. Goods, services, fellowship. We become wealth to each other.

>>15523237
I’m thinking you’d be killed for trying it. Well fertilizing some roses will put you to some use

>> No.15523324

>>15523310
>I’m thinking you’d be killed for trying it.
I might be killed by a competing slave trader, but the one absolute truth is that the weak will be enslaved if something like Anarchism ever takes off. Do you really not see that?

>> No.15523336

>>15523310
are you sysadmin?

>> No.15523347

>>15517821

1000x this.

>> No.15523354

>>15523324
If “something like anarchism” takes off they are obviously not weak anymore. You imagine we’ll end up in 1820 again. You don’t understand that will never be. Just kill yourself now. Your fantasy will never happen.

>> No.15523369

>>15523310
>Stirner points out the infamous “spook”. Law is a fiction anon. And money is just “legal tender”. Make vouchers the tender and there’s no need for dollars. People will start to realize they don’t even need to take the voucher, they could just give the pair of shoes or whatever. There’s your payment. Goods, services, fellowship. We become wealth to each other.
Alright so I want to create a car manufacturing factory. We are going to need hundreds of workers and be trading with hundreds of countries around the world to get all the materials needed to produce. Under your system this is going to consistent of amazon wishlists instead of money. I'll have to make a wishlist for all my workers. Ok jeff for this months pay you want 12 breadsticks, two pair of boots, and a new pair of speakers alright let me check my dealers.

>> No.15523372

>>15523354
You do realize that the very nature of Anarchism is the rejection of forming a group, and therefore can be no collective strength, right? God you are such a moron.

>> No.15523410

>>15523369
>pay you want 12 breadsticks
Short attention span? They manufacture whatever at their pace for quality and durability, they are paid in vouchers unique to them. It’s spent on necessities fairly quickly because of their non accumulative properties.

>>15523372
What I realize is that you’ve read nothing about anarchism.

>> No.15523425

>>15523410
Who is going to pay the regulators these vouchers?

>> No.15523428

>>15523410
You better pray your free-for-all society never reaches fruition, because if it does, someone just like me will come and make you his property before working you to death and then slaughtering your corpse to sell as meat to feral niggers.

>> No.15523445

>>15523425
I already said. The work itself is what pays them. There’s no need for an HR department, a rich CEO, a bank of any kind, fucking Wall Street and certainly no Federal Reserve to print any damned greenbacks. It’s a cell phone app away. You punch in and punch out. Enjoy your day, enjoy your family, enjoy life.

>> No.15523453

>>15523428
That is the status quo, bitchboy.

>> No.15523455

>>15523445
You are understanding. Regulators are payed by the government from taxes because there is no profit to be made. Who is paying them when it's not from taxes?

>> No.15523461

>>15523453
I wasn't being metaphorical.

>> No.15523467 [DELETED] 

>>15523455
You already asked this and I a already answered.

>> No.15523474

>>15523453

I can't wait untill the free society comes then I can rape women like you.

>> No.15523481

>>15523455
You already asked this and I already answered.

>>15523461
Neither am I. You aren’t scary in the least.

>> No.15523484

>>15523481
>You already asked this and I already answered.
What the fuck where

>> No.15523490

>>15523474
*shoots dick off*

Would you like to help with my rose garden?

>> No.15523500

>>15523490

Leftists don't believe in guns

>> No.15523503

>>15523481
I cannot wait to enslave you and turn you into currency. You weak willed agitating faggots got us into this current mess, and we WILL make you regret the coming aftermath.

>> No.15523518

>>15523481

I hope a pack of niggers rape you

>> No.15523526

>>15523481
>You aren’t scary in the least.
He will be when you finally realize where you stand in the pecking order.

>> No.15523608

>>15523481
>You already asked this and I already answered.
Can you respond where I'm really curious cause I want to understand your system

>> No.15523621

>>15523481

Ironic since women aren't scary in the least

>> No.15523655

How does anarchism reckon with global capitalism? All of your responses so far have been great and I’m gonna get that anarchists reader book but I really don’t know how it would reckon with globalism.

>> No.15523669

>>15523655
It doesn't work. Everything would collapse. It's impossible to have an advanced industrial economy like we have without money and markets at least. Market Socialism is as far as we could go.

>> No.15524016
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15524016

Many of you have a limited understanding of anarchism/libertarian communism even in very basic shit like the difference between police making and management/implementation of policies.
Seriously if you are interested in the subject read some fucking books and then we can discuss them but this shitflinging without a basic understanding of the terms doesn't have any value for either parties (if you are spooked from the A word call it Libertarian Municipalism and read the Next Revolution by Bookchin)

>> No.15524029

>>15524016
Bookchin shit on anarchists and anarchists shit on Bookchin. It's nothing more than market socialism with a state like structure.

>> No.15524063

>>15517604
go join your nearest protest/riot :^)

>> No.15524102

>>15524029
It doesn't really matter for a beginner and it's maybe be better to read something less utopic at first ,but it is true that it's not 100% balls on the wall anarchy

>> No.15524104
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15524104

>>15524029
There’s nothing on economics in The Next Revolution.
He doesn’t “shit” on them in it either. It’s a fair critique of where the Spanish anarchists failed.

>>15524063
The cops make it a riot. This isn’t anarchism

>> No.15524342
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15524342

The Problem of Political Authority by Michael Huemer is unequivocally the best book on anarchism. There’s no question begging, no obscurantism, and no bullet biting. The book begins by pointing out that if a private individual acted like a government, almost everyone would consider his behavior immoral.

>> No.15524518

>>15524342
Is it worth a read as someone who gets allergic reactions at the mere thought of anarcho-capitalism ?(no jokes pls ,it's a serious condition )

>> No.15524643

>>15524518
Yes, there's hardly any embellishment in it. The author speaks to you where you are and makes the case for anarchism using common sense morality to knock all the anticipated arguments. He's always 5 chess moves ahead of his critics.

>> No.15524677

>>15524643
Ok thanks i'll give it a try

>> No.15525375 [DELETED] 
File: 42 KB, 641x482, 1428018147057.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15525375

>>15517604
Remainder that this whore is the one claming that she is stronger than you. Probably never used a gun or ever been into a real fight. She is 46 years old and probably has menopause.

>> No.15525395 [DELETED] 

>>15525375
Also remainder this whore lives in woodland hills. Check the warosu archive and search all info.

>> No.15525401

>>15525395
Was she born there or did she move there later? I remember her saying she was born to an evangelical christian family.