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/lit/ - Literature

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15484993 No.15484993 [Reply] [Original]

Am I allowed to love God even if I was a homosexual in the past? I heard that shit's unforgivable but luckily I didn't have any literal gay sex with anyone, but I feel lost without God so I'm going to assume he will save me even if he won't, because otherwise I wouldn't last long in this world.

>> No.15485010 [DELETED] 

>>15484993
As long as you're trying to normalize homosexuality in the culture, then I don't see the issue. What I mean is to "stay in the closet". Plenty of greater writers were homos, but typically, they stayed in the closet and didn't make it a fundamental part of their being. They also didn't try to change cultural norms to encourage other men to "explore their sexuality" and try out being homo.

>> No.15485015

>>15484993
As long as you're *not* trying to normalize homosexuality in the culture, then I don't see the issue. What I mean is to "stay in the closet". Plenty of greater writers were homos, but typically, they stayed in the closet and didn't make it a fundamental part of their being. They also didn't try to change cultural norms to encourage other men to "explore their sexuality" and try out being homo

>> No.15485150

>>15484993
Yes, and even if homosexuality were a sin, it's not the unforgivable sin. If you had committed the unforgivable sin, you wouldn't even want to repent, so you're fine.

>> No.15485165

>>15484993
The point of christianity is you have sinned in much the same way you've had to learn to read. It wasn't given to you and you naturally get pleasure in and of itself in this regard.

>> No.15485168

“ I never knew you”
Matthew 7:21-23

>> No.15485175

>>15484993
The Bible does not describe homosexuality as a greater sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, all have sinned and are outside the kingdom of God in their own merit (Romans 3:23; 6:23). No one is good enough. But God’s offer of forgiveness is through Jesus Christ is extended to all people; anyone who puts his faith in Jesus can be forgiven of all his sin and become God’s child (John 1:12; 3:16–18; Ephesians 2:1–10). God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, fornicator, idol worshipper, thief, greedy person, etc.—it is equally available to all sinners, which is all human beings. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (2 Corinthians 5:17). First Corinthians 6:11 says, “And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (emphasis added).

Does God approve of homosexuality? No. Can a person truly be a Christian and at the same time a practicing homosexual? According to 1 Corinthians 6:9, no. While Christians should stand firm in the biblically based conviction that homosexuality is sin, we must also keep the tone of the message biblically based. Ephesians 4:15 instructs us to “speak the truth...in love.” First Peter 3:15 teaches us to proclaim the truth, but to do so with “gentleness and respect.” Our message should be focused on the forgiveness and freedom from sin that are available through the Lord Jesus Christ.

>> No.15485184

>>15484993
god's love is not reserved for the righteous; it's for every sinner. jesus didnt preach to the morally pure. a sinner reformed is worth more than a lifelong saint.

>> No.15485196

>>15485184
ok but it has to be more complicated than just that because there's this idea of god being just or even angry so it can't just be automatic forgiveness no matter how badly you fucked up right
is there a consensus on how forgiveness works or does it differ between schools of thought

>> No.15485205

>>15485196
Trust me, you won't notice it, but God has been angry.

Once you receive God's love, you look back on what you did without him, and what life was like without him, and you are forever grateful for his protection.

>> No.15485206

When examining what the Bible says about homosexuality, it is important to distinguish between homosexual behavior and homosexual inclinations or attractions. It is the difference between active sin and the passive condition of being tempted. Homosexual behavior is sinful, but the Bible never says it is a sin to be tempted. Simply stated, a struggle with temptation may lead to sin, but the struggle itself is not a sin.

Romans 1:26–27 teaches that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. One of the fruits of rebellion against God is homosexuality. First Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that those who practice homosexuality, and therefore transgress God’s created order, are not saved.

A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. Just because a person is born with a greater susceptibility to fits of rage, that doesn’t make it right for him to give in to those desires and explode at every provocation. The same is true with a susceptibility to homosexuality.

No matter our proclivities or attractions, we cannot continue to define ourselves by the very sins that crucified Jesus—and at the same time assume we are right with God. Paul lists many of the sins that the Corinthians once practiced (homosexuality is on the list). But in 1 Corinthians 6:11, he reminds them, “That is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (emphasis added). In other words, some of the Corinthians, before they were saved, lived homosexual lifestyles; but no sin is too great for the cleansing power of Jesus. Once cleansed, we are no longer defined by sin.

The problem with homosexual attraction is that it is an attraction to something God has forbidden, and any desire for something sinful ultimately has its roots in sin. The pervasive nature of sin causes us to see the world and our own actions through a warped perspective. Our thoughts, desires, and dispositions are all affected. So, homosexual attraction does not always result in active, willful sin—there may not be a conscious choice to sin—but it springs from the sinful nature. Same-sex attraction is always, on some basic level, an expression of the fallen nature.

As sinful human beings living in a sinful world (Romans 3:23), we are beset with weaknesses, temptations, and inducements to sin. Our world is filled with lures and entrapments, including the enticement to practice homosexuality.

>> No.15485208

>>15484993
New testament forgives everything.
>>15485015
Don't listen to this closet faggot he's literally projecting all his fears.

>> No.15485211

>>15485015
>in the past
Who are you fooling?

>> No.15485218

>>15485211
op is literally admitting his homosexuality you fucking genius detective

>> No.15485221

>>15485196
>it has to be more complicated than just that
Why? Jesus was crucified for us, what extra punishment is needed? Suggesting that something else is necessary comes dangerously close to suggesting that Christ's sacrifice wasn't sufficient.
>inb4 someone tries pulling "muh Heaven" or "muh Hell"
They're the same "thing", just in one your soul is so mired in sin that the presence of God, the fount of all Goodness, is painful.

>> No.15485225

>>15485184
>a sinner reformed is worth more than a lifelong saint
No they are equal only the later has no regrets

>> No.15485228

>>15485205
yeah i don't really know what you mean i just want to understand the basics
i'm not op

>> No.15485232

>>15485184
God is too good to us mortals. To him and the Lamb, is the dominion and power and glory, forever and ever.

>> No.15485240
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15485240

>>15485205
>Once you receive God's love, you look back on what you did without him, and what life was like without him, and you are forever grateful for his protection.

>> No.15485261

>>15485221
ok so what is meant when god is "just", if by justice we mean "that which is due" and also, there is no punishment or reward that is due? that seems like a deadlock to me, what's the solution? i don't want some lame answer where god being "just" simply means something like "god is a really accurate calculator and never makes mistakes in judgment"

>> No.15485280

>>15484993
The only truly unforgivable sin is to believe that you are beyond forgiveness. God loves you and will forgive everything if you come to Him with an open heart.

>> No.15485285

>repress your sexuality to please jewgod

What a bunch of miserable cunts christcucks are

>> No.15485289

>>15485261
Fundamentally, God is Love, not Just. The entire point of Christianity is that sense of "gift", that sense of being given something freely. For some examples:
>Do not call God just, for His justice is not manifest in the things concerning you. And if David calls Him just and upright, His Son revealed to us that He is good and kind. ‘He is good,’ He says, ‘to the evil and to the impious’ (Luke 6:35). How can you call God just when you come across the Scriptural passage on the wage given to the workers? ‘Friend, I do thee no wrong: I will give unto this last even as unto thee. Is thine eye evil because I am good?’ (Matt. 20:12-15).

>How can a man call God just when he comes across the passage on the prodigal son who wasted his wealth with riotous living, how for the compunction alone which he showed, the father ran and fell upon his neck and gave him authority over all his wealth? (Luke 15:11-32). None other but His very Son said these things concerning Him, lest we doubt it; and thus He bare witness concerning Him. Where, then, is God’s justice, for whilst we are sinners Christ died for us!
That's just a tiny little bit from Isaac the Syrian. Similar concepts are conveyed in other Fathers of the Church.
Though that's somewhat strong and intentionally inflammatory language, so I'm sure someone on 4chan will lose their shit and try to fight--the justice of God isn't against people, but against sin, just as a doctor isn't against his patients, but their diseases. Even if someone goes and intentionally does things that get them sick, the doctor never kills them, only treats the disease.

>> No.15485292

>>15485285
Obligatory "not all Christians", though this is 4chan, so most people here are either LARPing Caths, LARPing Orthodox, or (hopefully LARPing) historically revisionist Baptists. I have talked with a few laid-back Orthodox people and one "normal" Reformed person here, though the norm is not a good look, especially with the prevalence of racism, or worse, converting to justify their racism.

>> No.15485329

>>15485289
>he justice of God isn't against people, but against sin
so it is as i feared, the only way to reconcile god's justice with the way forgiveness works is by defining justice in such a way that a doctor is "just" for prosecuting disease and a civil engineer is "just" for prosecuting structural defects. "justice" against impersonal objects is no justice at all my by lights, it's not even an analogy.

>> No.15485332
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15485332

>>15485292
>converting to [Christianity, a Hebrew faith] to justify their racism

>> No.15485348

>>15485329
Then view God as not being just; that's unimportant. Especially since it can be said that evil doesn't exist, it's just a privation of good. I certainly don't think the point of Christianity is some sort of cosmic "justice" and anyone who expects a religion about the Son dying without sin and giving Himself freely to be about justice of all things is in the wrong place. That doesn't mean we should just go out and sin freely (as it's not loving) and even in orthodox universalist thought you'll still go to Hell [for some amount of time] and it'll be worse than literally anything you can imagine, but I'd heavily suggest against looking into Christianity for justice.
>>15485332
At no point did I say that it was a sensible outlook, but it's a view I've seen represented here. Though, in the defense of this board, I think that was on /his/ and not /lit/.

>> No.15485365

>>15485348
i don't mind whether you apply the label "just" to god and mean by it something i would not call just. my goal isn't to prevent anyone from glorifying god by preventing them from giving him compliments. i just want to understand how forgiveness works because i don't understand the basics. the only reason i bring up justice is because i remember from my background experience that this an important feature for many christians. you clearly do not belong to their type but i still want to have a balanced view instead of entrusting my opinion to one person.

>> No.15485391

>>15485365
It's a somewhat fringe view nowadays, I will admit that. At the very least, even if it's the commonly held view in some denominations (such as possibly amongst Orthodox clergy and some Episcopal clergy, to speak from frames of reference that I possess) it's not likely to be commonly talked about, because it makes people uncomfortable at times. On top of that, it starts making people think they have free license to do whatever, it's not a pastorally responsible thing to say.
Basically, forgiveness is automatically not tied to justice, it's outside of it. Justice is in some form of punishment, be it punitive or restorative, and any punishment that God does provide is restorative (as it provides a higher good than just punitive punishments) such as in a purgative Hell.
However, the vast majority of Western Christians (and I don't know if it started with the Roman Catholics or with more Reformed groups) have a view of God as being necessarily just.
Fundamentally though, "go and sin no more", just keep trying. Pray, attend church (when the quarantine is lifted) and live a Christian life. There may be theological quibbles that some people like to argue about (homosexuality being the most common one of our day) but at the end of the day, we won't know for sure until it's "too late", so just find what church seems to be the closest to the Truth, be with them, and trust that God is Love and forgiving, even of those things where we weren't aware we were wrong.

>> No.15485409

>>15484993
>in the past
That's not how it works.
>I'm going to assume he will save me even if he won't
He won't.

>> No.15485419

>>15485150
All sins are unforgivable.

>> No.15485421

>>15485409
I'm assuming you're of the belief that being a homosexual (in orientation) is a sin, and that you can't change sexual orientation?

>> No.15485423

Unforgivable sins don't exist, they're prot garbage. God is mighty and merciful and can forgive any sin, as long as you open your heart towards him.

>> No.15485428

>>15485421
I was pretty plain about it.

>> No.15485429

>>15485423
Thank you, I wish more people would adress the sin of homosexuality so there won't be as many people doing it, I could have avoided it like I avoided many things thinking "ok but if God is real I will burn for this", but all christians do is say no you can't be a gay christian you will burn forever for your perversion, that doesn't really make sense considering some people are just born that way.

>> No.15485433

>>15485419
You what?
>>15485423
I mean, in Scripture we're directly told of the unforgivable sin, but it's commonly understood to be "unrepentance" so I guess you're technically right.
>>15485428
That's basically saying that a temptation is a sin, in which case Christ sinned, as He was tempted in the desert by Satan.

>> No.15485438

>>15485409
But I literally don't feel any lust when I look at a man, are you saying there's literally nothing I can do? No matter how much I cry out to God he won't listen? Do you belive it's worse than murder?

>> No.15485442

>>15485348
also,
>Then view God as not being just; that's unimportant.
this is a very good semicolon.

>> No.15485445

>>15485442
I don't know if that's sarcasm or not, Anon.

>> No.15485447

>>15485433
>That's basically saying that a temptation is a sin
It is.

>> No.15485450

>>15485447
So then Christ sinned, which is incongruent with orthodoxy. What denomination are you?

>> No.15485455

>>15485450
>expecting logic
That's your first mistake.

>> No.15485456

>>15485447
This is not about temptation, I don't feel any lust when I look at a man's face or body. I stuck some things in my ass such as my fingers or my dick and a pencil once, tried to achieve prostate orgasm and couldn't, didn't even like it, also fapped to a tranny webm once, felt TERRIBLE after, and now you're saying I'm screwed because of temptation? What temptation, there was none.

>> No.15485457

>>15485015
I like how homosexuals drive conservatards mad, homosexuality is hilarious and subversive in a good way

>> No.15485474

>>15485456
Kek, I'm bi and that's not homosexuality, that's just wondering how anal feels (and heterosexual anal does exist). The tranny thing is similar "exploration of sexuality", relax, you're not a fag you're just easily startled.
>>15485457
Nailed it. So much of "orthodoxy" for conservatives tends to be focused on sex rather than anything in the Creeds. It's almost hilarious how lost to the culture war they are, though it's also sad, because a lot of liberals are the same way.

>> No.15485486

>>15485456
>there was none
Sure. You're also damned for sodomy, masturbation, and looking at pornography.

>> No.15485513

>>15485455
What do you mean?

>> No.15485526
File: 9 KB, 200x283, 65cf6e235a9ec853e855b1c643b0ecbc--carl-johnson-the-ghetto.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15485526

>>15485486
Cool, might as well go live my life however I want and stop serving God, hell will be just as hot even if I spent the rest of my life sinless, instead of killing, drugging and fucking, right?

>> No.15485531

>>15485513
I mean what I said. Stop trying to obfuscate things.

>> No.15485532

>>15485445
not sarcasm. the semicolon is legal and musical. a rare luxury.
"Then view God as not being just" and "that's unimportant" are independent clauses, so a comma would combine them to form a run-on sentence; displeasing to the ear.
>Then view God as not being just, that's unimportant.
however, separating them with a period would be too abrupt. the second clause is too short.
>Then view God as not being just. That's unimportant.
the semicolon buys you just enough tempo for the second clause, and the periodic ending is pleasing. it felt nice so i had to praise it.

>> No.15485537

>>15485526
Don't take the bait, they're either a theologically illiterate fuckwit, a troll, or a non-Christian. Save your breath and your time.

>> No.15485541

>>15485526
You can always make your punishment worse.
>>15485537
>being this mad at the truth.

>> No.15485549

>>15485532
Huh, interesting. There's lots of stylistic things that I use—probably too frequently, given what everyone that reads what I write says—and it's rare for me to get praised. I abuse semicolons, parentheses, and em dashes. For example, I'd probably have rendered your first three sentences as:
>Not sarcasm. The semicolon is legal and musical—a rare luxury.
Absolutely mind-blowing to find out people actually enjoy "weird" punctuation.

>> No.15485558

>>15485541
Prove to me sodomy is unforgivable you fucking calvinistic piece of shit, I was fucking 11 and you're saying I'm doomed for eternity for taking what I could get (couldn't look at porn back then, fapped to what I could get)

>> No.15485560

>>15485558
>fapping
>sodomy
>pornography
>all of this as a child
Your soul is absolutely rotten with sin.

>> No.15485563

>>15485558
take a chill pill anon, if it makes you feel better that guy who's calling you out is probably going to hell too

>> No.15485565

>>15485563
Absolutely, but I'm not in denial about it.

>> No.15485567

>>15485560
I bet you have never did not even at least one of those things, am I right?

>> No.15485571

>>15485563
What about you?

>> No.15485573

>>15485567
Like I said here >>15485565, I know I'm going to hell. My own wickedness has no bearing on this conversation.

>> No.15485578

>>15485549
i agree with your critics on the topic of abusive punctuation. the semicolon alone was the object of my praise.

>> No.15485586

>>15485578
Damn. Guess I got lucky and it wasn't a mark of talent. Still, I'll take a "You got lucky, well done."

>> No.15485620

>>15485573
So you don't belive you can be saved?

>> No.15485623

>>15485620
Obviously.

>> No.15485641

>>15485586
>>15485578
On that note, how do I become good with punctuation and stylistic choices?

>> No.15485645

>>15485586
i don't count myself talented either. it's just nice to enjoy those little things. semicolon critique is also a powerful tool when shitposting.

>> No.15485652

>>15485645
>Semicolon critique is also a powerful tool when shitposting?
How so?

>> No.15485653

>>15485641
i know the correct answer to this question. strunk and white's "elements of style", third edition. it will change your life.

>> No.15485657

>>15485653
Why the third and not a more recent edition?

>> No.15485692

>>15485657
the fourth edition attempted to "modernize" aspects of the book against the spirit of the author. strunk was opinionated and assertive. he could not have posthumously changed his mind, because everything he said is correct. also because he is dead.