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/lit/ - Literature

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15482182 No.15482182 [Reply] [Original]

How do you teach literature and writing to high school students?

>> No.15482196

>>15482182
in America? step 1 is to buy a kevlar vest to wear to work

>> No.15482197

>>15482182
You give them books to read, and they read them, and then you make them write what they think about it. Then you ask them questions about what they wrote and try to get an engaging discussion among the students, even if they are all retarded.

>> No.15482200

You don't. They'll either be interested enough to dive into the subject on their own, or will only care enough to disrupt class and distract everyone else. Public schools has damaged the institution of learning more than any other factor in the past 2000 years of human history.

>> No.15482209

>>15482197
> You give them books to read,
Yeah.

> and they read them,
You can see where this is—

> and then you make them write what they think about it.
Okay let me stop you right there—

> Then you ask them questions about what they wrote
Uh huh.

> and try to get an engaging discussion among the students,
Have you ever talked to one of them?

> even if they are all retarded.
Yep.

>> No.15482236

>hurr durr what's a one-size-fits-all solution to teaching people something
I fucking hate teachers. Fuck you, OP.

>> No.15482269

>>15482209
Yeah, I know. It's not a real solution. But its just so strange the things teenagers adapt. I know one kid who, after years of seeing and talking to him, the only thing he took away from our conversations about life and meaning was getting into safety razors and boar hair brushes. There's another family friend's kid who, the family puts it on my shoulders to talk to him about certain things because I'm closest in age to him and I know the shitty video games and memes that absorb his life. I've been testing out with him how to get him to read a fuckin' book, as his parents have given up on that and let him play overwatch all day. He's like a cat, he doesn't want to seem engaged or attentive, but he just kinda hovers around. It's really weird trying to navigate a teenagers chemically imbalanced mind.

>> No.15482337

>>15482269
> getting into safety razors and boar hair brushes
What?

>>15482236
Where did I suggest a one-size-fits-all?

>> No.15482343

>>15482337
After all that time talking to him, the one thing he took from our conversations was the one time I told him about shaving with safety razors instead of regular disposables.

>> No.15482351

>>15482337
>Where did I suggest a one-size-fits-all?
Fuck you.

>> No.15482435

>>15482269
>He's like a cat
Why do you insult cats by comparing them to depraved humans?

>> No.15482456

>>15482351
Are you autistic

>> No.15482473

>>15482456
Not more so than anyone else on this board. I just despise the type of person who becomes a teacher. You are a detriment to society and an enduring pillar of mediocrity.

>> No.15482518

>>15482473
I'm having trouble making sense of your point-of-view.

>> No.15482520

>>15482182
force them to read books in class

>> No.15482522

You give all of them pertinent assignments about literature, quiz them on readings and ask them to articulate their own thoughts. The ones that give a shit are rewarded with good grades and get to keep that literary knowledge as a bonus, the ones that don’t get poor grades and generally stay stupid. This is that they do right now, and it generally works. Same principle as an IQ test.

I understand being cynical about education in the US, but to imply that every student can be engaged in such a way that they end up caring about literature and performing well is just sociological mysticism. Society requires for there to be a gradient of performance.

>> No.15482529

>>15482518
A teacher who doesn't understand a different point of view? I'm not surprised. What exactly are you having trouble with?

>> No.15482609

>>15482529
Mainly I'm puzzled about whether your issue is with standardized public education generally, or merely (as you stated) the type of person who tends to become a teacher. The two are distinct, sure, but practically inseparable.

>>15482522
I get that, but English as a core curriculum is great enough that you can certainly attempt to appeal to a broad demographic of students' needs. That is, you can tailor your methods of assessment inclusively toward students who could benefit from learning to craft written arguments, students who need to locate their self-expression, students whose love of literature ought to be nurtured, etc. This is particularly true in multimodal learning environments, where it can include digital projects and presentations.

I guess I'm chiefly concerned with the question of how inclusive a secondary English/writing curriculum can be before it starts getting absurd. I'm asking this on the assumption that /lit/ attracts individuals who tend to spend a lot of time thinking about education.

>> No.15482679

>>15482236
If you are being educated in a public school you shouldn't expect private education

>> No.15482713

>>15482209
Then teach somewhere with rigorous entrance exams that establishes the students have made the decision to try at life.
Public schools are anemic to this concept by design (they are the only insitutions on earth that will entertain openly antagonistic members, besides jails, which I think triggers all the jail comparisons).

There's nothing wrong with the current model of teaching literature. If you're feeling particularly inspired give them one or two impassioned speeches about the noble cause of literature. If they don't take I can't imagine feeling particularly morally obligated to force them to think effort is good.

The vast majority of English teachers I ever had graded on my ability to be their friend/a cute white boy (which I got progressively better at). If you can do better than this you're already way fucking up on most of them.

>> No.15482739

>>15482679
I was educated in a private school (before being expelled for racism and attending a public school) and can safely say that all teachers are indistinguishably mediocre narcissists with superiority complexes. My teachers were also the best these institutions had to offer, considering I was in the advanced placement programs in both institutions.

>> No.15482750

>>15482182
Well for one, figure out what it is you're trying to teach them. What's the endgame? Higher test scores so you can advance in the bureaucracy? Instilling an appreciation for good literature? Giving them skills they can apply in the real world? Exposing them to a wide array of literary works? Making sure the one or two students in the class who show potential get the attention and resources they need?

Not all of these are mutually exclusive, but I'd say given the time and attention constraints (and maybe also given the composition of students in the class), you can really only accomplish one of them in a given school year. Some of these are obviously antithetical, so choose your windmill before you go tilting or you'll be working against yourself.

>> No.15482758

>>15482182
the SJW way. You read a book and you explain how it shows white people are evil.

>> No.15482769

>>15482739
You’re right, someone with your lofty credentials must have a good barometer for judging character

>> No.15482785

>>15482769
As we all know being credentialed by liberal institutions is the best predictor of character evaluation abilities.

>> No.15482809

>>15482785
I mean, compared to being a spoiled kid that pissed away a good opportunity because he couldn’t hide his power level. I’d say unequivocally yes.

>> No.15482876

>>15482809
I'd speak out against the black drug dealing thugs they allowed into my private school on football scholarships, despite not having the grades or temperament for higher learning, again in a heartbeat. I regret nothing. Compromising my beliefs and morals to excel within an institution would have been unforgivable. But hey, I guess I just call a spade a spade.

>> No.15482904

>>15482876
I get it anon, coping is easy

>> No.15482915

>>15482904
"Coping" in what capacity, exactly?

>> No.15482935

>>15482915
You’re such a weak willed faggot that you let factors that had nothing to do with you get you all emotional and fuck you over, now you’re chalking it up as some virtuous display of ethics. In reality you’re just a snowflake that doesn’t know how life works. That’s a cope.

>> No.15482944

Do what you need to do to teach literature/English to students except for high schoolers at a high school level

>> No.15482966

>>15482935
>Dude just compromise your values to get slightly farther ahead in life
Haha, nah. Good luck with that though.

>> No.15482985

>>15482966
The deluded racist dropout is really being smug with me about going far in life. That’s rich

>> No.15482990

>>15482985
>The deluded racist dropout is really being smug with me about going far in life.
Yes.

>> No.15483293

>>15482182
Ask them to pick a book of their own choosing. If they don't know any books, suggest a few, but don't suggest the usual gay shit most HS teachers suggest, give them something that actually appeals to them like Clockwork Orange or American Psycho, if it's been made into a movie they're more likely to be interested. Don't force them to write analysis. If you are going to force them to write a response get them to do a creative response, those are always more fun, unless they're a total nerd and want to do an analysis.
When it comes to writing tell them to write whatever they want, no limits, no "no bad language" rules, no limit to content, if they want to write about fucking midgets with strap-ons let them.

>> No.15483317

>>15483293
A Confederacy of Dunces is another good one for highschoolers. Main point is: Don't suck all the fun out of reading and turn it into a chore that they loathe like most teachers do.

>> No.15483341

>>15482182
Show them that literature is generally edgy and unrestrained compared to the washed-out written-by-committee horseshit they watch every day on their streaming service of choice.

>> No.15483362

>>15483293
>If you are going to force them to write a response get them to do a creative response, those are always more fun
This is just going to end with eighty pudgy emo girls writing fanfiction in greentext format about slobbering on Mr. Darcy's cock.

>> No.15483382 [DELETED] 

>>15482269
Wanna know what’s worse than teenagers who don’t give a shit about reading? Teenagers who DO read. And then their chemically imbalanced mind makes them believe in the most retarded shit, reading books that reinforce their beliefs.

>> No.15483386

>>15483362
At least they'll be writing. If/when that happens you can change things up and give them a prompt. First thing's first, you've gotta get them writing, doesn't matter what it's about.

>> No.15483393

>>15482990

I just watched this whole thread. Fucking please tell me you're joking. You're such a fucking autist reeing at all the nignogs. You need to learn to shut the fuck up and learn that being a retard isn't a virtue.

>> No.15483401

>>15483393
Bootlicker conformist scum.

>> No.15483408

>>15483386
I guess there's some value to that, but I think you need to at least enforce grammar and syntax rules. The overflow of geniuses on social media who genuinely seem to misunderstand capitalization shows a certain need for that.

>> No.15483412
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15483412

>>15483401

At least I got money, nigger.

>> No.15483424

>>15483393
>Dude just ignore the corruption of the educational institution
Haha, fuck off you weak unprincipled piece of shit.

>> No.15483432

>>15483412
And that is all you will ever have. Pathetic.

>> No.15483943

>>15483408
Why would you go out of your way to enforce standard English rules?

>> No.15484219

>>15482876
You type like a fag

>> No.15484325

>>15482182
Teach them a specific structure in detail using examples. Once they have a basic structure, they should find it much easier to fill it. Like a coloring book.

>> No.15484673

I can't because I'd fall in love with some of my precocious teen girl students

>> No.15485354
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15485354

>>15482182
Force an AP Literature/IB English/A-Level curriculum, with several required readings, discussions, and tons, and I mean TONS of analysis and essays.
It may feel as being a hard-ass, but I always felt the quantity of content and the level of evaluation in STEM and even other humanities classes was much much higher than in English. In other words, if you took Chemistry, you learned as much Chemistry as it is necessary to have an overview of the subject and to decide if you like it or not and if you want to delve even more in the topics.
Instead, currently in the US, when you take English you do a great amount of useless projects (presentations, etc), learn an over-simplified part of history (just enough to understand the context of some authors, and only go over the aspect of literary analysis very briefly.

I think it is ridiculous that your typical English/English Honors class in the US has almost nothing in similar to the typical first-year literary courses in college. And it kind of deceives a lot of people; personally I disliked English as I spent hours doing projects or filling charts instead of doing actual essays or having discussions. I loved getting to analyze a book in depth, and I'm pretty sure that even though most people would find it generally boring, if English was taught more rigorously, it would attract more people than it does today.

Also, introduce Philosophy in schools. Fuck, why in the US are there no Intro to Philosophy courses in High School? At least as an elective for the sake of God.

>> No.15486059

>>15484673
Anon...

>> No.15486086

>>15485354
I'm with you on philosophy, anon. But I'd want it to be an into to logic and critical thinking course, truth tables and Boolean logic and shit.

What do you mean by "filling in charts"? I genuinely knew one teacher who gave out scantrons for her English final. Honestly, what makes you think that's a useful evaluation?

>> No.15487071

>>15484325
i don't think you know what you're talking about

>> No.15487191
File: 77 KB, 1439x823, 5AB1B543-3386-4EDD-8BA5-049A9D175FD4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15487191

>>15482182
Thinking back to my experience in English class, I wish we had written less and discussed more. I understand most schools have some minimum amount of writing, but free-form discussion is what first engages someone to contemplate further and write a more complete report on a book. If I had to teach a literature, I would
>let them choose from a selection of books
Give the kids a quick synopsis. Choose exciting but simple stuff, let it include sex and violence. The class my friend was in read The Road in grade 12 and they enjoyed it.
>prompt early discussion
Have everyone read the same book or cluster them into groups based on what they’re reading. Talk in class about it. I know some classes are really quiet because people are shy or embarrassed to express their views. An anonymous class forum in a similar vein to /lit/ would probably work really well.
>let them choose how to do a final report
Short film, presentation, report. Most will probably go for the report

All of this hangs on the class being composed of good faith actors. If they aren’t on your side, it will just fail. Like in math, some people just fall of the learning train in middle or elementary school and will never get back on, so they “hate reading” or “hate math”, it sucks. From media I’ve seen American schools seem especially effective at alienating students who are more energetic and have a harder time learning at a young age, and by the time they hit high school they’re just coasting

>> No.15487918

>>15482182
At least I am honest. When it comes down to it, I don't think very highly of alyssa or brooke or cait or any of them. I just want money and a better job. Honesty counts for something, right?

>> No.15487928

>>15486086
When I was in High School, I remember it was common among English teachers to give us charts that we were supposed to fill out. They were titled "Characters", "Metaphors" and so on and we were supposed to fill those charts with all the information we could get from reading the book.
I felt that, although the idea was good by itself, it was really time consuming and something we students were supposed to do independently (study the book).
I mean, we are tested in whether or not we know about the book with tests and essays anyway.

>> No.15487938

>>15487918
Who?

>> No.15487965

>>15482182
You already know the answer to this

>> No.15489522

>>15487191
good luck doing half that shit in an american public school lmao