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15475336 No.15475336 [Reply] [Original]

If morality is subjective, why can't I be a misogynistic homophobe xenophobic racist bigot?

>> No.15475354

>>15475336
>can't
You're not able to?

>> No.15475358

morality is only subjective in the sense that it doesn't exist beyond us. it is a human abstraction but is important nonetheless.

>> No.15475374

>>15475336
You can be, but everyone would think you’re an asshole and no one would help you in whatever your goals are.

>> No.15475375

>>15475354
According to some people, yes.

>> No.15475377

>>15475358
Ok, but all you said here was that it is of import, not that it should be directed in a certain way.

>> No.15475380

>>15475336
if you accepted that morality was subjective you can not at the same time be a bigot, becasue bigotry is a moralism in the sense that it objectively places negative traits onto people arbitrarely

>> No.15475386

>>15475336
Nobody’s stopping you, but nobody has to tolerate you either

>> No.15475388

>>15475377
if morality is important then it's subjectivity alone is not justification for your shitty morals. you have to justify them.

>> No.15475392
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15475392

>>15475380
Yeah... arbitrarely...

>> No.15475403

>>15475386
>nobody is stopping you
>but nobody has to tolerate you either
This is contradictory.

>> No.15475412

>>15475375
You're actually incapable of being all those things?

>> No.15475415

>>15475380
if your bigotry is not based upon normative judgments but is "descriptive", then you must base your prejudice on some observable proof or valid and sound argument, and good luck doing so and not be a brainlet. This is the stance taken by so called racial realists

>> No.15475424

>>15475392

i adressed this here
>>15475415

>> No.15475425

>>15475336
You can, but you also can't be upset when everyone else opposes you.

>> No.15475428

Why this place is full of retards?

Why people aren't creating fake accounts on instagram or something? This is fucking 2020.

>> No.15475434

>>15475336
Morality is not subjective.

>> No.15475438

why is this board so fucking trash. just kys you retard

>> No.15475439

>>15475336
This only proves that morality is subjective. You believe it’s ok to be those things, and other people do not believe so. Did you really think this was an argument? Nazis are so stupid, I swear.

>> No.15475440

You can live a life full of bitterness and hatred in the same way you can roll around in a pile of your own shit, everything has consequences and in a sense this world is what we make of it. You reap what you sow, if you want war you'll get war

>> No.15475447

>>15475403
You wish

>> No.15475481

>>15475425
But he hasn't the right to oppose me, each one of us have our own morality and you have to tolerate that

>> No.15475488

>>15475412
Yes. There are hate crimes. I cannot express my own subjective beliefs besides this anime forum

>> No.15475492

>>15475336
You can be if you'd like.

>> No.15475498

>>15475415
So, if there are observable proofs of things in order to make moral judgements, is morality subjective or not?

>> No.15475509

>>15475481
but what happens when i disagree with you, and not only that but your belief even goes against my interests, so that its erradication would benefit mine, and i have the power and will to do so?

>> No.15475512

>>15475439
My argument is why those people want to delete me if morality is subjective and their moral values don't weight more than mines

>> No.15475525

>>15475509
I don't understand why would you do that if you believe in subjective morality. You're justifying the Nazis, then, because they subjectively hated Jews (as I do) and they were in a situation where they had the power to eradicate them

>> No.15475529

>>15475498
it would not be a moral judgement, it would be a description of reality. In other words, is not the same as being a brainlet saying "you ought not to be black" thus makeing an objective moral judgement, and being equally as brainlet and saying "blacks are dumber becasue of bad genes". This, although biased an completley stupid, is not a moral judgement, is a descriptive observation which CLAIMS objective truth, not objective good

>> No.15475545

>>15475525
i'd say its completely rational to erradicate political enemies, however, the good of your cause (something i dont care) and its beauty can be discussed, either with words or in the battlefield. Thing is, antisemitism is a brainlet idea and not realy moral, but a butthurt ideology of who's the bad guy, so its not something moral but ideological in my opinion.

>> No.15475548

>>15475388
Can you prove this? Personally i subscribe to most moral conventions, but i still do not think its that there is a “more right” morality.

>> No.15475584

>>15475545
for instance, as a communist, i dont hate you because nazis are bad, i dont really hate you desu. we are just enemies and maybe one day when the catastrophe comes you and i will fight, and i will not hesitate, as you wont either. simply, your interests contradict mine, and since morality is subjective, i shall put forth my moral stanpoint above yours, not because im right, but because i think mine is cooler

>> No.15475586

>>15475481
>each of us have our own morality and you have to tolerate that
No I don't.

>> No.15475588

>>15475545
All ideologies are based somewhat in truth and somewhat on "give me shit."
All political ideology, regardless of what they define as moral and good, fall into either anarchism (destroy the government so I can be the new government), reformism (make the government fulfill my agenda), or pure-plays for power (make me the new government).
I fall solidly in the latter category, and Jews are in power, and I'm not, so ideologically it makes sense for me to be anti-semitic.

>> No.15475589

>>15475584
what the fuck, to be honest is changed into desu who the hell is to blame for this

>> No.15475595

>>15475589
enjoy your stay newfriend

>> No.15475617

>>15475529
So are you saying that there can be such scientific facts as blacks being dumber, women being intellectually inferior to men, homosexuality being unhealthy and so on? Could that be scientifically measured and proven? Then why do we hold women and gay rights as a matter of morals?

>> No.15475626

>>15475586
Why should I tolerate you, then? This is a social contract.

>> No.15475631

>>15475548
I don't believe in objective morality either, but I think that we must behave as if there is such a thing a pursue it. this endeavour may be ultimately futile but in our pursuit, we will create robust and stable value systems

>> No.15475639

>>15475588
Though I should note that my anti-semitism isn't helped by the fact that jews think my family and I should die because 2000 years ago some Italians burned down their temple and they still haven't gotten over their blood grudge.
I'm not even Italian.

>> No.15475644

>>15475545
So are you going to war only because some people disagree with you on something that is completely subjective?

>> No.15475671

>>15475631
What justification can you give for something that's subjective more than "because I feel it's like this"? And why would we pursue that thing if it doesn't exist?

>> No.15475678

>>15475588
i agree, although your terminology is too underdeveloped. but you just confirmed why you are a brainlet. Do you really believe, for example, that a poor jew and a rich jew has something to do with one another?
Now you'll gasp >bu-but international jewry!! so many powerfull people in this world are not jews, what makes you believe that a minority like a jewish cabal wouldnt have been overthrown by the much larger pool of non-jew powerful people, since its completely in their interest to do so? Moreover, lets pretend that the majority of powerfull people are jewish, in a determinate system in which power is involved people are of least importance, your focus should be on institutions, mode of production, classes, groups of intersests etc... people come and go, these things remain. Now, nothing in the current system, which is neoliberal (politics) capitalism (economics), nothing is there that ensures that a jewish cabal might be sistemically take control of the system in question. Its true, from medieval times and because of many reasons, many jewish families have got powerfull through banking, but just look around and you'll find many groups not even related to religion or ethnicities which form cabals, such as industries, parties, governments, dissidents etc

the world is not as simple as oh, the joos got it all, lets kill da joos

>> No.15475696

>>15475678
Your words not mine. I never said I was ONLY against Jews.

>> No.15475697 [DELETED] 

>>15475512
>My argument is why those people want to delete me if morality is subjective and their moral values don't weight more than mines
If morality is subjective, then that would mean there is nothing morally wrong with persecuting you for your beliefs either.

>> No.15475701

>>15475336
You can be, who exactly is stopping you?

>> No.15475706

>>15475671
value systems may not be objectively correct or incorrect, but that isn't because they are all equal. the concept of objectivity simply doesn't apply to an abstraction like morality. in the pursuit of an objectively perfect values system, we will inevitably create a pragmatic and functioning (albeit inevitably still subjective) one. we can argue morality by looking at the effect it has on the world around us. while the morality itself can never be objective, the metrics by which we evaluate it certainly can.

>> No.15475712

>>15475697
Because you're giving your agreement on being persecuted for the same reason. The Nazis killed Jews because they subjectively hated Jews (as I do, I subjectively hate Jews). You're doing the same with me, and I can do the same with you. Why would we kill each other because we disagree on something that it's completely a matter of perspective?

>> No.15475721

>>15475701
There are people who say I shouldn't be those things :(
Why?

>> No.15475737

>>15475706
So are you saying there's an objective morality based on the effect of subjective beliefs on people?

>> No.15475745

>>15475721
People say a lot of things, most of them contradictory.
They don't like the things you say because of how it makes them feel.

>> No.15475790

>>15475712
Well, I personally do not believe that morality is subjective at all. Well, maybe it is. But the benefit of a society having an abstract moral code far outweighs what it would look like if it did not exist. So, in a way, the idea of a moral code is imprinted in our psychology for a reason. That’s the real purpose of religion for example. To get the population to believe that morality comes from god, and then have them obey that moral code.

It is wrong to kill because it is bad for society.

>> No.15475808

>>15475737
that's one way of putting it, yes. though I don't know if I would use the word objective.

>> No.15476424

>>15475336
Because morality is not subjective. Read the Republic.

>> No.15476484

>>15475512
Because morality being “subjective” (whatever this means in this context) has no bearing on whether we’re allowed to have moral disagreements.

>> No.15476496

>>15475358
something that doesn’t exist isn’t important. it’s only important in our minds. think how many people have died over muh morality, in reality its all bullshit. any mentally created moral system is autistic abstract bullshit divorced from reality like “utilitarianism”

>> No.15476553

>>15475336
you can, though, in the wild there's always something that's going to eat you

>> No.15476745

>>15476496
How does it’s lack of existence outside of human experience have any bearing on its importance? It exists to us so it is important to us. You sound like a 15 year old who just discovered nihilism