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/lit/ - Literature


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15466199 No.15466199[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Any literature that deals with choosing between the lesser of two evils?

>> No.15466215

>>15466199
How the fuck does America ALWAYS choose 2 retards for the general election? I'm not hating, I'm genuinely curious

>> No.15466226
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15466226

>>15466215
They don’t.
The donor class has always chosen them.
You cannot have a functional democracy under capitalism

>> No.15466233

>>15466199
Nichomacean ethics

>> No.15466237

>>15466215
I ask myself this but then I remember that the president of my country is Bolsonaro
FUCK

>> No.15466240

Honestly the greater evil is voting for either candidate. Ethically speaking you're on higher ground if you draw dicks and swastikas onto the ballot rather than casting an actual vote. Technically you have more impact too.

>> No.15466247

>>15466226
on point

>> No.15466248

>>15466237
Do ponto de vista de Portugal todos vos achamos uns autistas, embora voces tbm só tinham 2 opções de merda

>> No.15466255

>>15466237
>https://youtu.be/cvnrs8GIG1E
Hail

>> No.15466259

>>15466226
>functional
>democracy

>> No.15466260

>>15466248
Vergonha demais da minha republiqueta, esse país é uma vergonha mundial. Tínhamos várias opções mas os retardados dessa terra acham que só tinha duas, inclusive escolheram a pior

>> No.15466279

>>15466199
Yeah, it's called life

>> No.15466290

>>15466259
Lets see a democracy without capitalism someday

>> No.15466321
File: 5 KB, 275x183, glass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15466321

Reply to this post if you're ridin' with Biden this November

>> No.15466325

>>15466290
If I decide to do so then I will

>> No.15466333
File: 25 KB, 480x481, mosley.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15466333

>>15466290
based but not in the way you think

>> No.15466336

why is the new butters so fucking retarded? i miss mommy milkers

>> No.15466516

>>15466240
That's not very materialist of you

>> No.15466526

>>15466290
Rojava is kinda a step in that direction

>> No.15466574
File: 81 KB, 1280x720, joe patriot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15466574

>>15466215
OP here.
Honestly my whole life has had two retards running for the executive chair.

I honestly go numb when people say, "this election is the most important one.." when I have heard it my entire life. Right now I am currently inclined to stop voting for presidential candidates and focus on legislative and state offices.

The silver lining of all this is seeing the Democrats
destroy there own party to elect a moron and burn themselves to ashes.

Anyways, does anyone have any lit about lesser of two evils?

>> No.15466615

They are replacing him right? I am leaning heavily towards not voting for a corporate candidate.

>> No.15466632

>>15466615
We’ve never had a choice. There are only corporate candidates.
And I’m no longer sure who will win. Aren’t the donors deciding on Biden now? With so many scared and disgruntled voters I can’t tell who might win now.
Doesn’t really matter though. Screwed either way.

>> No.15466640

>>15466615
I think the DNC is composed of psychotically loyal careerists who are going to back Biden even during Corona/his mental decline.

>> No.15466646

>>15466526
>American aid is socialism

>> No.15466654

>>15466632
The donors simply did not want a Sanders presidency because they'd have to pay taxes, now that he's out it doesn't really matter who wins the election to them.
It's either tax cuts or more tax cuts

>> No.15466685

>>15466646
He’s referring to their form of governance of course. They’re highly organized and would have been doing the same without the whole faux-civil war fiasco the CIA wedged in there.

>>15466654
Yeah. I hope more of his fans start to wake up to how much of a loser he is.

>> No.15466708

>>15466226
And yet we do

>> No.15466712
File: 39 KB, 700x394, 1583200561382.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15466712

>>15466321
That's right, Jack. If you vote for Trump then you ain't black.

>> No.15466714

>>15466516
Correct

>> No.15466717
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15466717

>>15466708
Clearly not.

>> No.15466722

>>15466199
It's a major theme in the Witcher series.

>> No.15466723

Pic unrelated

>> No.15466724

>>15466215
jews. i'm not hating, it's the genuine answer

>> No.15467414

>>15466237
>Bolsonaro
He is based. Go vote for pervert retard opposition.

>> No.15467434

>>15466226
Perhaps you can if you muster up enough political will to vote in an outsider who wants to add transparency and legislation to take money out of politics. Capitalism is meant to be government's bitch, and all the instances in which it isn't is corruption, plain and simple.
Especially now that the monopoly of mainstream media is dying (though not quite dead) it should be more possible than ever.

>> No.15467450

>>15466226
Kill yourself bug

>> No.15467459 [SPOILER] 
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15467459

>>15467414

>> No.15467489

>>15467434
>Capitalism is meant to be government's bitch, and all the instances in which it isn't is corruption
That’s just what happens. Press a magical reset and it will go right back to oligarchy every time.
Online media is reaching more people getting turned off from the fake MSM, but it’s still fooling most the masses.
I still doubt a “political revolution” but it’s a piece of the puzzle we need to eventually seize.
Currently I favour introducing a voucher system as a duel income and winning over at least an audience that way

>> No.15467513
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15467513

Only NEETBUX man can save America in 2024 after Trump inevitably wins re-election because democrats nominated a senile rapist.

>> No.15467528
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15467528

>>15467513
Boop-a-boo

>> No.15467534

What are not retarded legit points against trump?

>> No.15467554

>>15467534
Idk dude is pretty retarded

>> No.15467582

>>15467534
no wall
re-negotiating NAFTA was a bust, he's done nothing to actually bring jobs back
he said he would raise taxes on the top 1% then immediately filled his cabinet with Wall Street executives and caved to Mitch McConnell
the pee tape is probably real

>> No.15467601

>>15467534
He's fat

>> No.15467608

>>15467528
people who identify as socialists should unironically shut the fuck up about socialism and never use that word in public discourse in the United States ever again, most people support medicare for all but trying to get people to accept an abstract word that barely even means anything in the current year is a much steeper hill to climb for very little in practical results

>> No.15467679

>>15467608
You rant about this as your system collapses around us all.
Fool. Hang your head in shame.

>> No.15467725

>>15467679
why do you care more about a word than about medicare for all, a $15 minimum age, UBI, green new deal, free college and federal jobs guarantee?

>> No.15467822

>>15467725
I hear conservatives cry about those being socialism before anyone even mentions socialism.

They are indoctrinated or something.

>> No.15467879

>>15467414
Kill yourself

>> No.15467913

Joe Biden shit his pants during an interview todah

>> No.15467928
File: 54 KB, 1024x576, Master-and-Commander-The-Lesser-of-Two-Weevils-1024x576.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15467928

>>15466199

>> No.15467975

>>15467725
I don’t actually care about a word. I’m an anarcho-whateverthehellworksist. What’re you afraid of?

>>15467822
They sure are.
Everyone has bought into the system. Even the littlest nest egg is enough to corrupt. This new wave of poverty coming will wake more people up though. Be gentle.

>> No.15467999

Luke 18
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

>> No.15468041

>>15467975
>What are you afraid of?
I am merely pointing out that it's more effective to get people on board with something that is based on reality than with an abstract trigger word. Bernie's undying loyalty to a word, among other things, hurt his political campaign twice.

>> No.15468106

>>15468041
Absolutely. How can you take down the cost-inflating corruption in healthcare and education, for instance, when your opponents can reduce you to the soundbyte of "free education and healthcare", which without the first step would only exacerbate the problem.

First let the free market work as it was meant to and reduce costs before you start socialising it. Socialising a corrupt system is pure retardation. And yet he welcomes/doesnt work to prevent the trivialisation of his platform, because he's controlled opposition or naive.

>>15467489
>Press a magical reset and it will go right back to oligarchy every time
Uh? When has reforming lobbying ever been tried? Or any method to stop corrupt regulations from being passed when they are being paid for by special interests. Butterfly the real liberal status quo shill for insisting capitalism is unfixable.
>voucher system as a duel income
Like yang's neetbux? how did that work out for him. he wanted to fix edu/healthcare and was called a libertarian, because it's retarded millenials and old trannies who espouse the emotional virtue of "socialism" that doom bernie from winning in the mainstream and any genuine reform that could benefit the people from coming to pass

>> No.15468110

>>15467534
He filled his administration with smoothbrain Bush-tier neoconservatives instead of anti-establishment populists as he promised. He fires or threatens to fire people who disagree with him.
He bends to media demand even if he says otherwise. He's shown no propensity towards gun rights and instructed the ATF to act extra-legislatively to ban bump stocks. He let Mitch 'Turtle' McConnell (who has big connections to Chinese interests through his wife) sneak Tobacco 21 into a spending omnibus bill. He banned closed-system flavored vapes and has done nothing to stop the FDA from crushing the vape industry by the now Sept. deadline, in addition to saying nothing about state restrictions (long story short, NIH and their grant dependents and state gvmts benefit immensely from the tobacco industry and have a vested interest in crushing the vape industry).
He is admittedly a 70 year old but his thoughts aren't well-collected and he's regularly misinformed (his circle consists of incompetent yes-men). He doesn't seem to have a clear agenda at any time. His schedule consists mostly of unorganized "executive" time. Either no one looks over what he is going to say at speeches or on Twitter or he just ignores them.
His response to the pandemic has been too little, too late (although in fairness, his successors cut pandemic-preparedness funding). Same with the economy.
All in all, I will probably end up voting for him again because I hate democrats and I want to make sure he finishes loading the judiciary.

>> No.15468216

>>15468041
Absolutely not. Bernie lost his campaign’s because the DNC cheated him. Ever hear of wikileaks? But he’s also feckless and does actually try. Imagine if Eugene Debs had come back from the dead. It would become extremely obvious to even you how ready people are to embrace these MILD social-democrat policIes. Even Republicans want medicare for all. The wealthy won’t allow it

>>15468106
>When has reforming lobbying ever been tried?
The Great Depression. The New Deal. The most popular president in US history taxed the rich at 95% to pit people to work. He didn’t do half as much as Keynes recommended, not till a war economy got underway of course. All government jobs.
Some unbought progressives rail against capitalism, but what they want is European style refomism. Michael Moore for one. Fake progressives, AOC, will never mention it again (or I doubt she will)
Vouchers aren’t money, so not neetbux (or “the doll” as Roosevelt called it)
Again, the MSM depict the old cold war kids hating the “S” word, but most the country is actually ready for it, whether they know it or not.

>> No.15468227

>>15468216
>But he’s also feckless and DOESN'T actually try.

>> No.15468260

>>15466574
It didn't destroy them last time. Both parties benefit from their retarded system and neither wants to change shit. "At least we're not the other guy" is sadly also a legitimately good reason to vote for a horrible candidate, when the opposition is even worse.

>> No.15468272

>>15467513
>1k
>neetbucks
More like gig economy man who wants you to run from uber to some burger delivery to afford your own crappy meal.

>> No.15468292

>>15468216
> Bernie lost his campaign’s because the DNC cheated him
They didn't this time. At worst you can say they teamed up and threw away other candidates (which was most likely their genuine decision for political capital later) and that just isn't cheating. If he had more support, he'd get more votes than the centrist snakes. He didn't get more votes because the electorate mainly consists of doom-er tier boomers and kids who don't bother to vote. That's not even something muh revolution would solve anytime soon.

>> No.15468331

>>15468292
He won the Iowa caucus. But Bootygig had his silicone valley connections wedged in their and they almost got away with it. Bernie declared victory, because they places left uncounted favored him. Later I think they gave Bootygig the win. After this he kept pulling punches at the debates, it’s been confirmed he had moles in his campaign and he always deferred to their judgment. He was just as spineless but he was winning Despite it all.
Infuriating that he would get all that money and keep calling Biden his friend. “Yeah, he can beat Trump” such bs.
Again, my point is that the momentum is very much there now, but the system and the candidate are not going to allow it.

>> No.15468379

>>15468331
It was a close win (mainly due the idiotic system in place) and Bootygig just used the uncertainty like the opportunist it is.

Besides the shit was irrelevant either way. Biden had zero momentum until the south joined.
> he always deferred to their judgment.
Would be his failure as a leader then.

He's stuck between horrible options, pushing Biden is realistically the least bad choice at this point.

> Again, my point is that the momentum is very much there now
Even in Cali the difference between Biden and Sanders wasn't stark enough. He could have a chance with a perfect PR campaign and would probably win vs Trump but in the primary he is always at a huge disadvantage due the amount of conservative democrats among the votes, not just muh donors. He's selling modern centrist politics in a country that had two right wing parties through its history. Bernie always needed a wonder to win most democratic voters.

>> No.15468399

>>15466226
I get that but at the same time Communism doesn't have a great track record when it comes to tyranny vs democracy. I don't know if true democracy has ever existed or will ever exist so long as control exists

>> No.15468402

>>15467534
HE'S A DANG CHEETO

>> No.15468418

>>15468216
>The Great Depression. The New Deal.
Not talking about goverment intervention in the economy broadly, which ofc has been done for good in the past, but specifically lobbying, which is where corporations bribe their way into politics and hasn't been touched.

Take the recent net neutrality case for instance. If it weren't for a bunch of big companies like Google supporting a lawsuit and appeal, AT&T and co would have easily passed their corrupt legislation without a second glance. Apply this to healthcare and education, where is the people's advocate? No shit socialists think capitalism is irredeemable if we can't even manage enough political will in a "democracy" to fix something like this

>> No.15468423

>>15468379
>idiotic system
Specially new system set up to “fail” just the way it did. It was more than him being an opportunist. His people were in on it.
>Would be his failure as a leader then.
Agreed.
> pushing Biden is realistically the least bad choice at this point.
He was pushing him during his campaign though. “independent” my ass.
Anything after the pandemic hit we can just ignore. California went full Sanders in 2016, no fucking reason we should expect it to be any different against another Obama era war criminal

Hey what do you think of this Independent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tqgb6hPcmk
Another guy that will excite easily 80% of the country, but the system will never allow in.

>> No.15468429

>>15468399
>control
Capitalism. GET CAPITALISM OUT

>> No.15468450

Why nominate a candidate with dementia? It is very disturbing.

>> No.15468452

>>15466199
>lesser evil
>100% puppet ruling class who is also senile
>90% puppet capitalist class global media has a 6 year long hateboner for
i'd go with the latter just to make failed elites like journalists and academics seethe forever

>> No.15468461

>>15468423
Exciting people just isn't enough. (Besides, not wearing a suit in the shit probably already scared 50% of boomers away) They have to see you as a viable candidate, specially these days. The electability narrative might've been pushed by the DNC but this meme became so ingrained, maybe losing again against Donald could do the trick but even that seems unlikely.

The pandemic could introduce some sort of hope and desire for a real change but bribing the electorate with another round of trumpbucks would probably keep things calm.

>> No.15468462

>>15466226
what a braindead definition of fascism. popular control or not, democracy in any conceived incarnation thus far will be exactly as he describes whether the people are elected according to the population or not.

>> No.15468466

Fuck Americans and fuck American politics. The lesser evil would be for everyone to nuke you stupid fucks off the planet. Get fucked, burgers.

>> No.15468474

>>15468466
Might be more humane for them too.

>> No.15468486

>>15468429
God you're hopeless. If all power/control is a manifestation of latent capitalism, even when we're talking about the lust for power/control that led to tyrannical (un-democratic) communist states, then you'll just have to admit "capitalism" is built into the human psyche

>> No.15468510

>>15467414
Retard

>> No.15468540

>>15468461
It’s not the boomers, it’s the donors. They decide.

>>15468486
The wealthy BUY anything and everything with their riches. Capitalism is corruption itself. Money has indeed been around a very long time. It breeds sociopaths as religion breeds schizos. Been around a while, I know.

>> No.15468604

>>15468110
A non-shitpost answer deserves a (you)

>> No.15468660

>>15467582
>>15468110
thanks for the actual answers

>> No.15468726

>>15466226
>authoritarianism is fascism lol
Room temperature IQ, authority is far from the only requisite for Fascism. Here's a guy who actually understands what he's talking about when it comes to Fascism:
https://pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

>> No.15468741

>>15466199
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-kEw6mYa-I

>> No.15468763

>ITT: literal children
When you're actually old enough to register to vote, I hope you're not this fucking stupid.

>> No.15468773

>>15468423
>A literal professional wrestler

The absolute state of /lit/

>> No.15468800

>>15468726
>fascism isn’t authoritarianism bros! Ha-ha
Not when it’s totalitarianism.

>>15468773
He’s an entertainer ex-marine. Not going to even get elected, but he’s at least not a feckless loser like Bernie.
Like I keep saying, we’re not getting a political revolution.

>> No.15469067

>>15468726
>UR FASCISM REEEEE
or you could just read Mussolini

>> No.15469160

You shouldn't compromise your ideals so easily, especially if the choice is Trump is Biden. Picking the lesser of two evils leads to poorly reasoned rationalizations that you otherwise wouldn't make and corrupts your ideology. Look no further then the string of op-eds from feminists last week saying that even if Biden did rape Tara Reade you should vote for him. Or social conservatives who've defended Trump vigorously. I highly recommend "The Treason of the Intellectuals."

Anyways America's problem is there's to much democracy. We're one of the few countries that has primaries to pick candidates to represent their parties instead of the parties choosing them. Trump won 30%~ of the Republican vote in the primaries but ultimately got the nomination, nobody in the party's upper echelon wanted him (and 70% of the average conservative voter). Similarly in the Dem primary this past year, you had successful governor's like Inslee who gained zero traction while a 30 something year old mayor of a small city managed to be one of the finalists simply because he checked the right intersectional boxes and was charismatic. And in the end the you have an incoherent 77 year old as the parties nomination whom everyone can tell has lost significant mental faculties, but hey it's democracy.

>> No.15469187

>>15469160
>that even if Biden did rape Tara Reade you should vote for him
Are they wrong though? If there are two sexual pests, you might as well vote for the one who pretends to act like a decent person and isn't going against your right to choose.

>> No.15469250

>>15467928
infinitely based

>> No.15469252

>>15466215
We have selections, not elections.

>> No.15469259
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15469259

>>15467928

>> No.15469292

>>15469187
As a purely utilitarian argument it's defensible but I think it's in incredibly corrupting in a lot of ways. Any feminist (or reasonable person) would automatically disqualify a candidate whose committed sexual assault (whether this pertains to Biden I don't know and I won't speculate, I'm using the hypothetical that I've seen feminists make, there was an article a few weeks ago in the NYTs from a feminist professor who made the argument) but when you get rid of this as a moral to aim for and you decide that the election is deciding the fate of the country then your reducing it simply power politics with no ideals left and it's became a zero sum game where you simply want your side to win at all costs. This is the exact argument the right made for Trump, a lot of people gritted their teeth and voted for him because they were scared of what a Hillary presidency would look like. And whether you agree with that or not you can't argue the effect it's had. Tons of people on the right have now just given in to Trump's game of power politics and back him because he's pissing off the left. And I think this is one of the biggest problem in politics right now, both sides want to claim moral/ideological superiority but feel they can violate them because the other side is worse and we're just left with us vs them power politics which I think we can all agree is unhealthy.

>> No.15469324

>>15469292
Compromising is generally corrupting but still objectively the better call sometimes.

> then your reducing it simply power politics with no ideals left and it's became a zero sum game where you simply want your side to win at all costs
It is, and generally is bound to be a case in a country with so little political room. But what does she suggests to do in a specific situation like that? Observing and pointing things out is easy. But when the impact from evil vs lesser evil is actually real for you, avoiding a nasty choice isn't much of an option.> This is the exact argument the right made for Trump,
And now they are in the legislature and make laws; and pick judges with a president who gave them the promised tax cuts, trade wars and anti abortion regulations.

Sure, he isn't THE pick for most but generally still does the job to push the agenda forward.

Now obviously people shouldn't be in a constant loop of making the least bad choice, but outside of unrealistic shit like mass organisation; the most likely solution would be at least organizing on smaller levels and getting the parting enough diversity of thought to split them in pieces.

>> No.15469378

>>15469292
The fight should have played out in the primary
Even ignoring Tara Reade which was a late development, Biden was threatening to get into fistfights with voters, lied about being in prison alongside Nelson Mandela, and was having issues speaking and remembering things, and MSNBC actively covered up for him while calling Bernie, a Jewish guy with family members who died in the holocaust, a Nazi without any trace of irony. They also called Yang a white nationalist because retards on /pol/ made meme threads about him and Tulsi Gabbard a Russian spy for literally no reason other than she challenged the establishment.

Fucking hell, if Obama hadn't forced Pete out of the race, Pete, despite being a corporate centrist, would have been a million times better than Biden.

But in a general election, you're forced to make a utilitarian choice and about 94% of the country makes that choice based on a general set of beliefs each party claims to have.

>> No.15469492

>>15469324
This is my last response for the night because I'm off to sleep but I'd be happy to respond in the morning if you do.

>It is, and generally is bound to be a case in a country with so little political room

Your view of US politics is distorted by the current moment, up until the 80s for example supreme court justice nomination was a nonpartisan issue where you voted for the others side judge even if you disagreed with them. Also take the most signature legislation of the recent decade, Obamacare, it was voted entirely along ideological grounds because there was no concession back and forth and Trump repealed what he could by executive decision because of the unpopularity with his constituency.

>But when the impact from evil vs lesser evil is actually real for you, avoiding a nasty choice isn't much of an option

In the choice between two rapists? I dont know what the "real evil" is then. I'd say the choice of voting for either of two people you think are legitimate rapists is evil. Picking between them while acknowledging it would still be evil but making a utilitarian calculation.

>And now they are in the legislature and make laws

But they don't. There's been very little actual legislation because of the political polirzation. Tax cuts aside Trumps does the majority of his presidency, like Obama, through executive order because of the unwillingness to work together (and like Obama he lost his legislative advantage in mid-terms and there's total stasis)

>Trade wars

This is exactly the issue with what is wrong with power politics and not having ideological grounds you believe in to stand on. Republicans prior to Trump were the free trade party and are now trending toward protectionism while Dems have traditionally been anti free trade while being pro-protectionist. Free trade among Dems has never been more popular then it is now. Peoples support of issues is now being determined by whether the person they like or hate is in power, how is this healthy? I'll concede the judges and anti-abortion stuff since those were and are important to Republicans.

>Now obviously people shouldn't be in a constant loop of making the least bad choice, but outside of unrealistic shit like mass organisation

But this is the problem, you aren't going to get out of the loop if the cycle continues like this and I seriously can't see it stopping. Polarization is getting worse in this country and theres just so many forces working against a return to same politics.

> most likely solution would be at least organizing on smaller levels and getting the parting enough diversity of thought to split them in pieces

Yes I would like to see this. I think what's contributed to the current problems is the nationalization of politics through tv/internet. You previously wouldn't care about whether a baker baked a cake for a gay couple of what bathroom a transgender can use because you simply wouldn't have been aware of it but now any story can become national.

>> No.15469544

>>15469492
Going to sleep soon too so cba with a response now ... though I'm not even sure what to object. Seem all fair points.

Maybe the two rapist thing. Though even then, choice for lesser evil is still choice for evil, so you're right.

>> No.15469659

Witcher series for fantasy. Basically, not choosing is still a choice and reality's a bitch.