/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Tue May 26 14:07:59 2020 No.15457809 [Reply] [Original]

I used to be into Sam Harris. I got bored of it, and I got into Jordan Peterson, because he made the world seem more exciting. Then I realised Peterson was probably bullshit, and was having a negative effect on my mental health. Then I got into Contrapoints and PhilosophyTube, which seemed amazing at the time. Now, I'm realising they're only good when they're deconstructing someone like Peterson. I can't actually retain their ideas. I couldn't explain the ideas in a conversation to someone.

Now, I'm thinking that Sam, and someone like Steven Pinker, was probably just right all along.

Anyone else been on a similar journey since about 2016ish?

Also, if you think I sound like an idiot, you're right. I'm just trying to be honest, and to see if anyone feels the same way.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:12:34 2020 No.15457837 I know what you mean. Life makes no sense, basically

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:41:18 2020 No.15458023 >>15457809 !!!

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:45:42 2020 No.15458049 >>15457809 Sam Harris is something of a simpleton. Stop reading and paying attention to meme "thinkers" on youtube and educate yourself properly.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:48:56 2020 No.15458070 >>15458049 I don't understand. How would you recommend I start this process, on a practical level?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:49:30 2020 No.15458076 Some people are just really upset that you can solve ethics with secularism

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:50:34 2020 No.15458081 >>15458049 He is definitely not a simpleton. Fame tends to bring out all the contrarians.

Anonymous Tue May 26 14:51:15 2020 No.15458085

>>15457809
>le meme thinker
Dude just read some of the books these fucking socialites read. All Peterson does is misquote Solzhenitsyn, fucking read some of these classic yourself.

I'd recommend Jay Dyer if you like just idolizing "le smart person" he is an Orthodox thinker and tackles a lot of conspiracy theories.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:51:28 2020 No.15458087 >>15457809 Read Sean Carroll's "The Big Picture".

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:52:28 2020 No.15458091 >PhilosophyTube His video defending Antifa was embarrassing and intellectually dishonest. Also >We need to think less about Kant because he was a racist!

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:53:23 2020 No.15458098 >>15458070 With the Greeks. No great good without great exertion.

Anonymous Tue May 26 14:53:54 2020 No.15458104

>>15457809

Dunno, I like Jordan Peterson. Mainly because he makes sense, I kinda get now why people like him think like him. Have you read that book maps of meaning? It is not an easy read not too hard either, definitely worth checking out the first 3 chapters. Would definitely make my relationship with older people throughout my life easier if I had read that sooner.

I need to read Sam Harris books, I mainly read some random stuff and listened to his podcast.

Need to read that Steven Pinker book about writing and get back into writing.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 14:58:09 2020 No.15458142 File: 263 KB, 720x671, 1590134736700.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15458104 Your comment made me angry as hell. Read serious works, not Peterson, Harris, Pinker.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:01:54 2020 No.15458169 >>15457809 Over time everyone becomes boring because you know their take on everything before it comes out of their mouth. Keep moving anon. Never settle.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:03:02 2020 No.15458179 >>15457809 This is the average lit poster.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:04:04 2020 No.15458190 >>15457809 >I used to be into Sam Harris. I got bored of it, and I got into Jordan Peterson >Contrapoints and PhilosophyTube Kill yourself

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:04:48 2020 No.15458198 >>15457809 imagine reading contemporary hacks

Anonymous Tue May 26 15:04:48 2020 No.15458199

>>15457809
Sam Harris, among his other problems, just keeps bringing up the same points over and over. Doesn't matter who is the guest, he's going to bring the cessation back to one of his favorite hobby horses, like Islam is most evil or one of the others.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:05:37 2020 No.15458207 >>15457809 stop watching youtube. stop watching youtube celebrities. start reading books.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:06:05 2020 No.15458210 >>15458199 bring the conversation Sorry, for being phoneposter.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:06:15 2020 No.15458213 Please leave this board

Anonymous Tue May 26 15:07:11 2020 No.15458220

>>15457809
I did go from science-oriented liberalism to gradually more far out right wing and reactionary ideas, and now I'm pretty much back to where I started ideologically. I was never into leftism. And I started in 2014 when I realized that the media and the mainstream had been completely lying about islam.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:08:00 2020 No.15458224 >>15458220 Liberalism is leftism. You motherfuckers don't know anything.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:10:21 2020 No.15458245 >>15458224 there's a big difference between chapo people and someone like sam harris.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:12:19 2020 No.15458258 >>15458081 He is a complete idiot. Even his discussions on Neuroscience are pleb-tiered and wrong. He doesn't have a proper understanding of how to frame brain activity.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:14:00 2020 No.15458274 >>15458245 When it comes to first principles, no there really isn't. These are liberals with different conceptions of liberty.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:15:04 2020 No.15458286 File: 938 KB, 3445x2454, Pseudo-intellectuals.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15457809 Stop

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:17:07 2020 No.15458305 If you can make the jump from jbp to contrapoints that easily, you probably don't have anything you actually believe.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:17:32 2020 No.15458309 >>15458142 You are not the first person who gets triggered when I say something like that. Tell me then, which book should your drug addict f crazy degenerate read to understand the motivations behind the conservative mind?

Anonymous Tue May 26 15:18:12 2020 No.15458318

>>15458245
"leftists" like to talk about how they're socialist or anarchist or communist or whatever the fuck, but at the end of the day they act exactly like middle of the road liberals. they don't rebel against the system in any meaningful way; all they do is show up on election day and vote for which ever faggot has a D next to their name. Its the same thing as the "far right nationalists" and "neo nazis" who do nothing other than vote for Trump. You've been duped if you think that the political spectrum in American politics is a wide array of different beliefs. Everyone is, pragmatically speaking, one of a few different shades of neoliberal.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:20:49 2020 No.15458345 >>15458104 Read some actual books. Read Plato and the Organon by Aristotle. At least read How to read a book by Adler. Stop filling yourself up with nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:21:12 2020 No.15458351 >>15458286 Take Slavoj and Bloom off that list, they're not psuds. Also take Alex Jones off; he's a performance artist who doesn't pretend to be intelligent. Everyone else can stay.

Anonymous Tue May 26 15:27:46 2020 No.15458403

>>15458309
I would say Bergson's Essay on the immediate data of consciousness. It is accessible to a layman and quite interesting, although it is not really an introduction to philosophy. And, it is classic to start with Parmenides, Heraclites and then read Plato's dialogues.
Or you could try starting with Spinoza's Ethics, if you can collect the effort.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:28:43 2020 No.15458414 >>15458318 so everyone is the same because there are two parties in america, cool, deep insight dude.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 15:29:09 2020 No.15458418 >>15458091 I'm glad he's stretching his wings, but he still has a lot of growing to do.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:17:41 2020 No.15458492 You’re getting bogged down in the minutiae, anon. Be intellectually honest with yourself and really dig into the bedrock of scientism.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:20:19 2020 No.15458512 >>15458286 >>15458351 alex jones was right about atrazine and to this day the critics are silent.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:24:01 2020 No.15458543 >>15458414 No, what I said is that in practice most radicals act exactly like the moderates that they despise. Why don't you learn to read, you brain dead fucking nigger?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:25:27 2020 No.15458554 >>15458403 Bergson and Spinoza are just Peterson and Harris for trannies

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:26:47 2020 No.15458564 File: 172 KB, 565x396, flat3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15458554 You would have said that for any two people I listed. How embarrassing.

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:41:01 2020 No.15458678

>>15457809
your main problem is, as others have outlined in this thread, you are relying on e-celebs and bouncing around between modern "intellectuals" to decide your view.

There was a poster about a week or few weeks ago who talked about having gone from atheist, christian, buddhist, egoist, some more bs and back around again in the last few years because each time he read a book he agreed with it, then got disillusioned and moved to next book etc. Which seems a lot like whats going on with you.

Turns out he didn't follow any reading order or put any effort outside of just reading/watching the big meme book of whoever then bouncing to the next.

The answer is to unironically start with the goddam Greeks, do things in order and understand them, write your own thoughts about it (in the margins for ex) before moving on. Also, Adler's how to read a book has good advice in regards to categorizing what you read in your head, aka think about what kind of book it is, what its saying, and where those things fall in relation to other books.

>>15458070
that's how you start on a practical level. (use charts they're helpful)

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:42:07 2020 No.15458687 >>15458678 tl;dr don't just read Peterson when you can read Jung and Campbell

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:45:13 2020 No.15458710

>>15458678
you won't gain anything special by reading people who didn't know you thought with your brain, or that the earth went around the sun. historical reading order is a massive fucking meme, so is start with the greeks. it's funny when retards like yourself actually take it seriously.

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:50:07 2020 No.15458744

>>15458710
Just because Plato didn't understand the finest points of modern physics or some nerd thought the earth was flat doesn't mean they have nothing to contribute to ethics, at the very least it will help this anon learn how to formulate an opinion that he won't lose five minutes later when someone more "based" and less "cringe" comes along. Besides plenty of people with totally incorrect ideas about w/e bullshit have contributed to science.

If you're such a genius for ignoring any thinker/writer/scientist who didn't agree with everything you already agree with about science what is your suggestion to stop OP from latching on to every e-celeb he hears about?

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:50:47 2020 No.15458747

>>15457809
Same but I never went back. I just enjoy what I'm reading, stay out of politics, develop my career. I do still watch Contrapoint videos when they come out because they're interesting and check up on Sam, Joe Rogan, and JBP from time to time. I should stop doing this.

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:52:26 2020 No.15458759

>>15458286
Glad to see George Carlin here.
>i’m a cranky old man who swears and by the way america is run by corporations fuck the system this has never been said before
No shit. Fuck you and your retarded seal audiences who lapped that shit up like it was so profound.

Anonymous Tue May 26 16:55:04 2020 No.15458781

>>15458104
>I need to read Sam Harris books, I mainly read some random stuff and listened to his podcast.
Don't fucking bother. I read Letter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Waking Up, and Lying. They're all garbage. Lying was probably the best, but only because it's short and unambiguously just like his opinion man.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 16:55:42 2020 No.15458784 >>15457809 >>15458747 >Contrapoints Yeah, you’re retarded. >inb4 go Bach 2 pole

Anonymous Tue May 26 17:22:03 2020 No.15458972

>>15457809
I honesty always thought that Harris and Pinker are smarter and more tactful than Jordan Peterson. I don't know what Contrapoints or PhilosophyTube are.

>>15458070
Just to add to what others have said: I don't think you need to start with the Greeks but just recognize that hearing Sam Harris debate or discuss something with someone isn't the same as becoming informed on something. On the one had, you're becoming more informed (and likely better informed than a lot of the mouth-breathers roaming the streets). It's also the beginning or part of a process of learning about a topic. I don't think his book The Moral Landscape (one my least favorites and one where I disagree with him a good deal) is a bad book. I would just sincerely hope if you're going to read it, you're going to study more about ethics before you start confidently saying what moral ideology who identify with. It's like the difference between considering Joe Rogan an expert on nutrition because he talked to scientists who study nutrition for a few hours and considering Dr. Rhonda Patrick an expert on nutrition. One's an expert. One's just an intellectually curious dude.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 17:34:06 2020 No.15459064 >>15457809 I tried listening to one episode of his podcast and gave up because he spent 80% of the time blabbering meaningless conjecture and never making a point while also being annoying to his guest. So yeah fuck this guy.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 17:39:36 2020 No.15459112 File: 39 KB, 640x640, 1590490741174.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15457837

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 17:50:57 2020 No.15459200 >>15457809 the only bearable """philosophy""" youtube channel is cuck philosophy

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:29:10 2020 No.15459467 >>15457809 Um maybe look into other philosophers? If you found Harris and Peterson to be boring you're probably smart enough for real philosophers. What areas or topics are you into?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:46:03 2020 No.15459575 Why do you insist on basing your life on the prescriptions of these glorified e-celebs Read a lot of shit and come to your own conclusions, like every “philosopher “ or modern charlatan that claims to be one

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:46:24 2020 No.15459581 >>15458049 This. Think for yourself or you'll end up clutching their books in a signature line on opening day while having no actual perspective of your own.

>>	chr21328 Tue May 26 18:51:08 2020 No.15459619 >>15458309 >motivations Natural Motivation. Like desire to protect Kin, Reproduce, be with Kin, umm.. Not be stomped out by the state all the time.

>>	chr21328 Tue May 26 18:52:17 2020 No.15459630 >>15458972 >Greeks Start with Anekantavada

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:52:19 2020 No.15459633 >>15457809 The live conversation between Sam Harris and Sean Carroll is all the evidence you need that no, Harris was not "right all along"

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:52:37 2020 No.15459637 >>15457809 You're now ready for the works of David Bentley Hart. That's the next and final phase of your development.

Anonymous Tue May 26 18:52:59 2020 No.15459640

>>15457809
>Then I realised Peterson was probably bullshit, and was having a negative effect on my mental health.
Correct
>Now, I'm thinking that Sam, and someone like Steven Pinker, was probably just right all along.
Nope. Read Vox Day, he BTFO out of both Harris and JBP
https://www.amazon.com/Irrational-Atheist-Dissecting-Trinity-Hitchens/dp/1941631622
https://www.amazon.com/Jordanetics-Journey-Humanitys-Greatest-Thinker-ebook/dp/B07JY9XV38/

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:53:48 2020 No.15459649 >>15459633 Elaborate. I haven't heard the conversation.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:54:01 2020 No.15459651 >>15458081 >>15458049 He's a midwit

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:55:33 2020 No.15459658 >>15459633 >live conversation between Sam Harris and Sean Carroll Link? I'd like to watch that.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:56:13 2020 No.15459661 >>15459640 I might be an idiot, but I'm not brain damaged enough to buy into racism and sexism, what a waste of time

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:57:37 2020 No.15459670 >>15457809 Stop reading garbage.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 18:59:18 2020 No.15459682 >>15457809 >still trusting le fedora jews

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:03:12 2020 No.15459705 >>15459661 Based 2013-style /lit/poster not falling for that shit

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:04:34 2020 No.15459719 >>15459661 He's tri-racial (Mexican, Injun, & Anglo/Irish). And neither of those books discuss race or women.

Anonymous Tue May 26 19:09:49 2020 No.15459759

>>15457809
>Also, if you think I sound like an idiot, you're right. I'm just trying to be honest, and to see if anyone feels the same way.
at least you got one thing right op
>A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:10:48 2020 No.15459769 >>15459759 You are a fool indeed.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:13:21 2020 No.15459795 >>15459769 >this anon gets it

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:16:56 2020 No.15459806 >>15458286 Take Piero off this list. He is not a psuedo-intellectual but a professional list-maker. I love the man. Also, Harold Bloom, Slavoj, and Chomsky deserve better than this.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:20:31 2020 No.15459828 >>15458286 Remove Bane

Anonymous Tue May 26 19:20:31 2020 No.15459829

>>15457809
What specifically are you looking for? An author of pop science books that don't suck? A philosopher that writes in an accessible way? A political theorist? A social commentator? An ethicist?

The popular jack-of-all-trades types with simplistic, all-encompassing worldviews tend not to be worth listening to -- a truth which it sounds like you are discovering.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:23:49 2020 No.15459851 You really think there are no gods? I have bad news for you.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:24:44 2020 No.15459853 >>15459851 It's Xenu, isn't it? FUCK !!!

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:46:37 2020 No.15460011 >>15458286 Take mike off, now.

Anonymous Tue May 26 19:55:33 2020 No.15460068

I watched Sargon and Peterson from maybe 2016, dropping Sargon (and adjacents) around 2017 and finally Peterson in 2018. I read 12 Rules for Life at some point, realized it's basically the same as his lectures and not really applicable to 16-17 year old me, and after than I basically stopped watching.
Never got into lefties like you, just basically dropped all political YouTube. Continued to watch Styx and Tim Pool for a while because they seem sane but I haven't really watched them in ages now.
Found /lit/ end of last year having lurked /mu/ and /g/ for years and gotten bored. Already had some interest in philosophy due to Peterson but no idea where to start or look. Now I've finally started reading properly I feel like for the first time I'm moving out of pseudhood. Wish I had started earlier.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 19:58:47 2020 No.15460086 Stop focusing on these celebrities and read dead people instead.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:00:16 2020 No.15460092 >>15458199 "our ignorant ancestors" is my favourite line.

Anonymous Tue May 26 20:04:37 2020 No.15460119

>>15458744
he should keep reading, but also learn concrete knowledge and not just speculation. changing ones mind is good. the only way that "starting with the greeks" would "help" with this "problem" is that it would make him stuck up and think he's wiser than he really is just for having read lots of old stuff.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:10:27 2020 No.15460161 >>15459200 >muh marxism

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:16:17 2020 No.15460193 >>15459806 Have you ever read his stuff on politics? Scaruffi is a cringe hack

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:19:02 2020 No.15460213 >>15459200 Watch this and then tell me if you still think he's bearable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MRKwlTZkfo

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:20:26 2020 No.15460229 >>15457809 I followed a similar journey from the right wing. I'd recommend reading some feser. He gives a more of less coherent view of the world.

Anonymous Tue May 26 20:37:16 2020 No.15460320
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>>15457809
I get what you mean, I used to be really into Shapiro, read Pure Allegiance and The Right Side of History, thought it was the shit. But I started watching more Tucker Carlson and reading some Peterson, some Dawkins and started to see flaws in Shapiro's thinking, specifically in terms of religious belief. Now I have turned full circle, you could say the Petersonian thought overcame my Dawkinsian skepticism, and I am quite the firm believer in Judeo-Christian tradition.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:42:34 2020 No.15460352 File: 969 KB, 1097x800, Steven Pinker Epstein.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15457809 >Steven Pinker Reconsider his motivations and then reconsider his argument. Then read Carl Schmitt.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 20:43:41 2020 No.15460358 >>15460320 I hope this post is satire. Hard to tell these days.

Anonymous Tue May 26 20:50:43 2020 No.15460402
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>>15457809
>I used to like atheist brainlet
>then I moved to benzo brainlet
>then I got to tranny brainlet
>now I'm thinking brainlet and someone like brainlet was right all along

Just read the classics, OP. Amongst our contemporaries, only read people like Bloom and Steiner, or erudites like Taleb, or genuine scientist and philosophers like Francis Crick, Roger Penrose, or John Searle.
Ignore all the rest, outside of literature.

Anonymous Tue May 26 20:56:28 2020 No.15460441
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I wish I didn't have such monstrous levels of testosterone, maybe then nofap would be easier. Is there a compromise between the emasculated basedcuck and the Michelangelo-jawline gigachad? Perhaps this is the final question men must pose to themselves. Is it worth sacrificing some of your manliness in exchange of not being a sex machine?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:51:54 2020 No.15460817 >>15457809 Sam Harris is an intuition-let and as a result can never be a good philosopher.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:52:59 2020 No.15460825 >>15457809 >because he made the world seem more exciting You're a fucking plen chasing plen sensations.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 21:54:01 2020 No.15460829 >>15458972 >I don't think you need to start with the Greeks Fuck you.

Anonymous Tue May 26 21:57:55 2020 No.15460867

>>15458070
DONT READ. There is nothing you have to do. Just learn to exist naturally. You can’t “get” this from an outside source. You must experience life for yourself, not through the lens of other people’s thoughts and beliefs. Stop looking for other people’s answers. Nobody became great from “reading the Greeks”. It’s just some bullshit repeated by people who want to feel superior for doing “smart things”

Anonymous Tue May 26 21:59:24 2020 No.15460879

>>15460441
>“Which is recorded of Socrates, that he was able both to abstain from, and to enjoy, those things which many are too weak to abstain from, and cannot enjoy without excess. But to be strong enough both to bear the one and to be sober in the other is the mark of a man who has a perfect and invincible soul.”
- Marcus Aurelius
Everything in moderation.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:14:40 2020 No.15460972 >>15460320 >Petersonian thought fuck

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:16:28 2020 No.15460981 >>15460867 >DONT READ. So I guess the first step is leaving /lit/ and never coming back.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:38:39 2020 No.15461099 Modern day Candide

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:50:41 2020 No.15461175 File: 338 KB, 1496x1880, Taylor-Swift-Feet-1139043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Whenever I think of Sam Harris and start feeling that there is no God, I just think of Taylor Swift's feet.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 22:59:53 2020 No.15461216 >>15461175 Did this anon finally crack the code? Is this the answer we've been searching for since the dawn of man?

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 23:03:23 2020 No.15461232 >>15458286 take Hyde, Peter Hitchens, yuri, that ortho guy RLM off there. Better take Alex Jones, h3h3, icke, syrian girl, the gamergate girls, mrrepzion, that TV presenter and Lindy off of there as no one thinks they are intellectuals.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 26 23:07:19 2020 No.15461254 >>15461175 Dunno, bro. I honestly embraced the doubt. Feels fucking crazy, but at least I'm legit with myself.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 00:02:11 2020 No.15461545 Why don’t you just read books and source material instead of fellating public Intellectuals so you feel good about yourself

Anonymous Wed May 27 00:10:10 2020 No.15461589

>>15461545
exactly, whats so hard about admitting that Sam, Peterson, Dostoevsky, Einstein, etc etc are wrong about something and right about something else? Whats important is their ideas. If my dog suddenly reveals to me the reality of the universe, does that make it wrong?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 00:11:42 2020 No.15461602 >>15458070 stanford encyclopedia of philosophy

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 00:58:01 2020 No.15461895 >>15457809 true knowledge comes from experience, not the second-hand bullshit you're trying to get it through with these meme masters.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 06:46:05 2020 No.15463226 >>15460320 So retarded it's funny

Anonymous Wed May 27 06:51:40 2020 No.15463243

Sam Harris -> Jordan Peterson -> Contrapoints -> PhilosophyTube

Yes, I've been there, it's the midwit journey to Mount Stupid. Here's the rest

Stephen Pinker -> Ben Shaprio -> Eric Weinstein -> Zizek -> etc etc

Just stop now. This is the male equivalent of reading gossip magazines and posting selfies on Instagram. Go read a serious book.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 06:54:44 2020 No.15463250 >>15463243 nased

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 07:03:38 2020 No.15463273 >>15458081 I’m sure Sam has a high IQ, but if someone comes at him from an odd angle he breaks down. He spent two hours trying to wrap his head around basic bitch utilitarianism during a talk with Peterson.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 09:16:58 2020 No.15463686 >>15460867 Based and God-pilled

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 09:22:18 2020 No.15463708 Sam Harris' clash with Chomsky is still a hilarious read: https://samharris.org/the-limits-of-discourse/

Anonymous Wed May 27 10:46:26 2020 No.15464055
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>>15457809
I don't think there is any better way to spot a Reddit dimwit simpleton than asking if they read Sam Harris. What a poor, shallow, low resolution thinker he is. There is a reason why Lucifer cast down from Heaven was the smartest of all the Angels.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:21:11 2020 No.15464229 File: 317 KB, 1195x960, 1524739820990.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15458351 >Take Slavoj and Bloom off that list, they're not psuds.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:32:21 2020 No.15464274 >>15457809 it sounds like your problem is that you're kind of dumb. I'd suggest learning a useful skill and practicing it in exchange for money. You might also take up model shipbuilding.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:40:20 2020 No.15464311 >>15458286 Take Sam Hyde off

Anonymous Wed May 27 11:41:27 2020 No.15464316

>>15457809
I can respect what both Peterson and Contrapoints do in that they seem to act as voices of reason to the right and left extremes respectively. I think people who're radicalised can use them as stepping stones to deradicalisation.
They have a purpose, essentially.

I just found myself really bored by the whole...deconstructing somebody elses argument for an hour while they're not able to respond shtick. All these types feel like they thrive when talking to themselves, or people who aren't as educated.
The ideas they put forth also never seem to go anywhere, they just linger. I don't know, there's a lot of minor issues that you'd need to make a whole fucking video essay on if you want to get the whole point across, and I'm so fucking tired of video essays.

I'm not the intended audience, I guess.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:43:03 2020 No.15464324 >>15458345 but what if i don't want to be a pompous asshole?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:50:31 2020 No.15464359 >>15458286 Take Bloom off there.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 11:56:17 2020 No.15464383 >>15464316 >I think people who're radicalised can use them as stepping stones to deradicalisation. Pretty sure it mostly works the other way around.

Anonymous Wed May 27 12:05:06 2020 No.15464427

>>15458190
This. OP just moved from one cringe farm to another.
>>15458220
If you're moving from one extreme of beliefs to another, you really ought to question your mental stability. It's entirely natural and good for beliefs to shift over time, but if you're just flailing all over the place, you need to educate yourself a little more and be more patient.
>>15458286
Yuri and Hitchens. Get fucked.

Anonymous Wed May 27 12:05:37 2020 No.15464428

>>15464383
Nah. I have seen people use these video essays to support their own bullshit, but when I've seen it happen it's because they've missed the point entirely. A lot of those people are too far gone.

Contrapoints has gotten worse over time, but going down this rabbit hole doesn't seem worth it approximately 5 seconds after I start going down it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:09:19 2020 No.15464453 >>15463708 Why did Sam publish that? Was he really that upset by a 30 second aside directed at the new-atheist scene in general?

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:12:21 2020 No.15464470 Fuck it, while eveybody's here what do you think Of Sam Harris' book Free Will? It looks like a load of minimalistic, cherry picked studies were provided to make his point so I stopped half way.

Anonymous Wed May 27 12:16:08 2020 No.15464489

>>15460867
There is some truth to this. I have met some elders who were certainly not educated or well read, but that possessed extraordinary wisdom based upon experience.
This does not imply that experience automatically equal wisdom. You need to possess the critical thought, introspection and memory to create a coherent worldview and see connections between pieces of data.

I said coherent intentionally - as a younger man in my 30's, my worldview continues to evolve slowly, but my largest issue is that some of those views are somewhat incoherent. Over time I believe they will resolve themselves.

So yes, experience is crucial, assuming you have enough intelligence to absorb it.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:24:22 2020 No.15464530 >>15464316 >I think people who're radicalised can use them as stepping stones to deradicalisation. why would anyone want that.

Anonymous Wed May 27 12:30:12 2020 No.15464565

>>15464428
Admittedly, I don't know much about Contrapoints besides watching Alt-Hype vids on her/him, but I'm pretty sure that everybody who got involved with JBP as an impressionable apolitical/libertarian teenager has either moved further to the right or dropped politics alltogether. He has very milquetoast centrist takes that you might find profound at first but quickly get bored of and start exploring other viewpoints. And anybody who still considers him a wise intellectual after the benzo addiction thing is either completely clueless or some weird cultist.

>>15464470
Haven't read it, but this takedown was fun to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxalrwPNkNI

>>15464530
Politics are bad for your mental health.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:37:14 2020 No.15464628 >>15464565 >Politics are bad for your mental health. Quite possibly yes, but radicalization does not necessarily have to be political.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 12:38:00 2020 No.15464633 >>15458286 Put Destiny on there

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 13:48:06 2020 No.15465013 >>15464324 sad that this is what most people think about the canonical texts. we deserve everything coming to us

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 13:54:49 2020 No.15465050 File: 4 KB, 219x239, 1587304340968.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15460320 >Petersonian thought overcame my Dawkinsian skepticism, and I am quite the firm believer in Judeo-Christian tradition.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 14:39:02 2020 No.15465337 >>15458286 Lmao why is Mike from RLM there? He only talks about movies.

Anonymous Wed May 27 14:52:55 2020 No.15465445
File: 12 KB, 188x273, pyrrho.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You don't sound like an idiot. You're exploring, and beyond anything else, that's good.

I like Sam. He's a bit of a bugman (in that he really likes rationality and science), and I don't like his views on religion, but he has interesting people on his podcast and I appreciate his views on secular Buddhism / rational Buddhism / mindfulness / whatever we're calling it. I was raised Catholic and I've done an OK amount of studies in philosophy and at the current moment, some sort of Buddhism / Buddhist ideals seems to be the way to go - assuming the goal is personal contentment / spiritual enlightenment, etc.

My worry is like the worry of many here (some of whom seem to be pushing Christianity hard). Science just can't explain it all, and there's a deep and strong need, at least within my personally, to get at some spiritual capital-T Truths. I know I will never get to them but it's always good to strive towards them. Dare I say it but that's like VERY rewarding and human thing to do. And science just seems like such a dead end in that domain. I'm sure I'm contradicting myself here cus Sam would say "Well secular Buddhism is great and we're all atoms and chemicals and there no-self according to science and that totally coincides with what the Buddha said so just meditate and experience ego death and eat your veggies". For a while, and maybe on my death bed, I may resubscribe to Catholicism or something of that sort, admittedly on the grounds of psychological comfort.

And I know next to nothing about Peterson other than he says to clean your room and that he is or was addicted to benzos. I'm not trying to be dismissive or funny here - that's just all I know about the guy. Oh and he's from Canada.

Anywho. If you think you know something, you probably don't.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 15:04:39 2020 No.15465520 >>15464453 He's a classic and extremely dangerous narcissist.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 15:42:30 2020 No.15465769 >>15458286 >whaaah, the people I don't like are dumb dumb poo poo heads! cringe

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 15:46:45 2020 No.15465800 >>15465769 they are though

Anonymous Wed May 27 15:53:31 2020 No.15465858

>>15465520
I get that, but all of Sam's emails are identical:
>I didn't misrepresent you, please address this short aside that may not even have been directed at me.
>P.S. Stop speaking in such an aggressive tone it'll look bad for you when I publish all this.
It's like he couldn't read the shit Chomsky wrote. And while I disagree with Chomsky on many things I can't see how Sam can ignore Chomsky's point that maybe the government is lying about why they dropped a bomb, and hey here's some FOIA docs that show they were lying.

Anonymous Wed May 27 16:01:14 2020 No.15465905

>>15457809

These guys, and 99.9% of pop thinkers are entry level by definition. They have large followings because they're easily digestible, usually somewhat agreeable, and most importantly you don't have to come in knowing anything. Read books by real intellectuals and challenge yourself. You'll still be a know-nothing faggot at the end of the day but you'll be somewhat more erudite.

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 16:18:48 2020 No.15466043 >>15465800 no u

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 16:34:46 2020 No.15466144 >>15460320 Lol fan of the quiz boi

>>	Anonymous Wed May 27 16:56:55 2020 No.15466313 >>15460068 oh hey it's me

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