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/lit/ - Literature

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15445594 No.15445594 [Reply] [Original]

What did you think?

>> No.15445668

essential read for any britfag zoomer

>> No.15445684

Interesting ideas but inelegantly written. Overly self-reverential at times, but it's kind of necessary to be taken seriously among the kind of person who takes shit like "Capitalist Realism" seriously.

>> No.15445685

>>15445684
I agree. Fisher likes to use big words for no particular purpose.

>> No.15445688

it's on my reading list for the marxist theory course im taking in the fall. what am i in for?

>> No.15445695

>>15445688
>what am i in for?
Don't. If you wanna read a political pamplet meme this season read Kaczinski instead, he's much more on point than Mah Movies/Bands guy.

>> No.15445756

I really enjoyed it. After I read it I got Ghosts of My Life and was pretty disappointed by the Fisher I saw there.

>> No.15445795

>>15445594
Absolutely based.

Unnecessary reading for those already knowledgeable in marxism, but a fantastic read to whip a pseud out of their delusions

>> No.15445797

>>15445695
Can't tell if ironic or not

>> No.15445978

For the anons in this thread:
What did you get from him? What have stuck to you?

>> No.15446025

>>15445756
>After I read it I got Ghosts of My Life and was pretty disappointed by the Fisher I saw there.
Why?

>> No.15446073

>>15446025
A lot of it is just a bunch of mediocre album/artist reviews with some academia-bait white self-abasement thrown in, the exact kind of divisive shit he talks about toward the end of CR. His buying in to the "scenius" meme in music is weak but I digress.
As a collection it feels very aimless and without a central unifying theme. Some of the essays are good though, but as a straight read it's disappointing, at least to me.

>> No.15446196

>>15446073
>>15445756
I thought it was unfinished which is why it feels like this?

>> No.15446215

I struggled with grasping it because of all the movie analogies as well as references to philosophers I haven't read. At some points when I could follow since I had seen the movie in question (Children of Men), I got the same feeling from reading the book that I do from watching a Adam Curtis documentary like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh2cDKyFdyU

>> No.15446233

>there are people on /lit/ now who can't understand Mark Fisher
Lol what has this board come to

>> No.15446243

>>15446233
>Everything is about understanding or not understanding
>The reason the things other people don't like to agree with the things you like and and agree with must be that they just can't understand it
Based blithe retard living in a fantasy world

>> No.15446249

>>15446243
>he thinks understanding the text=agreeing with it
Lol are you legitimately retarded?

>> No.15446257

>>15446249
Understanding something seems to be an important metric for you, it's the basis of your "lol i trol" shitpost. Why don't you explain to me what you think understanding Fisher has to do with anything in this thread?
>Lol

>> No.15446262

>>15446257
Because there are literally people in this thread saying that Fisher is difficult to understand?

>> No.15446263

>>15446262
Quote one.

>> No.15446268

>>15445685
>>15446215
These two were the ones I had in mind

>> No.15446274

>>15446268
Okay, so you're deriving your sense of superiority from an affinity for needlessly complex language and from having seen Children of Men. Glad we're on the same page now.

>> No.15446279

>>15446274
>sense of superiority
My man they literally are acting like Capitalist Realism is Baudrillard. The point is that /lit/ used to make fun of Fisher for being baby-level social theory and now everyone is like "damn this is too hard to read" when you can literally read and comprehend the entire thing in one day

>> No.15446298

>>15446279
You're reading too much into it. One anon said he didn't like his use of language. You don't need to find someone's use of language difficult to understand to dislike it for being needlessly (and intentionally) obtuse where plainness would have been fine. The second anon you quoted didn't get some of his references to movies and philosophers. There's nothing wrong with that and nobody is lesser for it. Fisher is as much a fag for trying to gatekeep knowledge behind arbitrary barriers as you are for looking down on people who get filtered by it.

>> No.15446309

Low test and carbohydrate binging made him depressed. Lifting and hanging with the right crowd could’ve saved him unironically

>> No.15446310

>>15446298
>reading movie reviews is hard
Lol

>> No.15446313

>>15446310
>hard
Ok retard. I'm not gonna spend another five posts rephrasing myself. I've seen this episode before.

>> No.15446315

leftists should have taken his warnings and built new movements on top of works like these but instead they celebrated when he killed themselves cuz he called them liberals LARPing as leftists (which most are)

>> No.15446320

>>15446313
I'm sorry that Zizek lite and depressed Roger Ebert is too much for neo-/lit/ anons

>> No.15446329

>>15446315
The problem with leftism is that their ideals have been commodified and rebranded as acceptable consumable things for the system. Leftism has run out of options from which they can derive their true revolutionary meaning from. That’s why leftism today is just rebranded liberalism. Real leftism is dead, the rest is just an illusion of progress.

>> No.15446328

>>15446320
>Me no understand wut u sey
>URRRRRRRK UHHHHHHHH
>jeejek n eggbert
>ACK ACK ACK ACK

>> No.15446332

>>15446329
>>15446315
Woah guys I read Houllebecq once too haha

>> No.15446337

>>15446332
I have never read Hollerbeck. What are you talking about?

>> No.15446341

>>15446329
How is 'rightism' any different, any less superficial?
Any meaningful politics is dead. Overt ideological stances are just slogans on mugs and t-shirts.

>> No.15446343

>>15446337
Every idea ITT has been stated since 1999 all of your thoughts are boring and repetitive deviations of shit that AdBusters already made corny 20 years ago get over yourselves

>> No.15446347

>>15445688
read Jameson instead, its the marxist critique of late stage capitalism. If its not on your course already then I'd just drop out of uni if i were you desu

>> No.15446357

>>15446347
>recommending Jameson to zoomers
Lol good luck

>> No.15446359

>>15446343
Lol, just because it’s cliched doesn’t mean it still doesn’t ring true to this day and what it makes it worse is that you still haven’t picked up the message despite having the knowledge.

>> No.15446363

>>15446359
>pretends to be an oldfag
>prefaces every post with "Lol,"

>> No.15446368

>>15446359
>you still haven’t picked up the message despite having the knowledge.
Yeah man if we all just like opened our fricking minds a little bit the establishment wouldn't be able to take it dude wooooah haha anyone who criticizes my stale ideas that have failed to produce any actual change and just served academic charlatans and fuel the very grifters people like Fisher criticize are just fucking close minded fools!!!

>> No.15446372

>>15446363
>Thinks that faggot was me
Lol

>> No.15446385

>>15446363
>>15446368
I suggest binning the HRT and try to convince the doctors to prescribe you TRT instead (you might have to swap clinics so as to avoid the tranny bias of your current one that is more than eager to prescribe you estradiol.)

>> No.15446392

>>15446385
Damn dude you sure know a lot about tranny shit what's with that

>> No.15446398

>>15446392
I have to deal a lot with tranny patients like you on a day-to-day basis

>> No.15446401

>>15446398
Why do trannies always get so defensive when people disagree with them about things

>> No.15446404
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15446404

>>15446385
>oh no, anon called me a tranny, which I'm not!

>> No.15446412

>>15446341
I mean yeah, that goes for the right wing too. There hasn’t been any genuinely new ideas since Fukuyama wrote about history ending. Capitalism has commodified everything into the global hegemony so basically people are stuck performing bullshit ideological identities while the elites stay on top.

>> No.15446422

>>15446404
Nice image dude did you get this from an epic tweet thread lol

>> No.15446428

>>15446412
>end of history was invented by Fukuyama
Jesus christ

>> No.15446439

alright if nothing really new

>> No.15446576

>>15445594
Absolutely based and blackpilled.

>> No.15446688

>>15445978
What I appreciate in Fisher is firstly his willingness to be vulnerable (Good For Nothing), and secondly to point out that life has become unbearably precarious and desperate for a lot of people who don't fit into the hyper-productive, entrepreneurial, career-orientated ideal.

>>15445756
Agree, Ghosts of My Life was underwhelming. The long essays about jungle music just seemed pointless.

>> No.15446921

>>15446332
Lol behold the insecure who can only communicate with people he disagrees with in wounded adolescent snark

>> No.15446923

>>15445594
It just another postmodern critique of modernity or rather 'neoliberalism' as he likes to call it, just with less jargon then you'd expect from post modernist. While diagnosis part is pretty intertaining to read and i'd even say correctly catching malaise of modern times, my main reservation is uninspiring ending - what the 'left' can change. Less beaurocracy? Socialisation of mental health? Self regulation? I would say these advises are contradictory to what left has to propose, they'd have to undergoe painful change, similar to the one described in the book (Brown).

In the end, I think Mark was to scared to tackle what the real solution is, but like most post-martxist/socialist he was scared to named it.

>> No.15446933

>>15445594
Not just essential reading, obligatory.

>> No.15446951

>>15446923
>In the end, I think Mark was to scared to tackle what the real solution is, but like most post-martxist/socialist he was scared to named it.
What’s that

>> No.15447391

It was alright and pretty short. Gets referenced a lot now so worth reading for that reason alone.

>> No.15447395

>>15446923
This

>> No.15447871
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15447871

>>15446951

>> No.15448364

>>15445688
>marxist theory course
post reading list please

>> No.15449943

>>15446951
we have to realise that society of having is a philosophical and economic dead end and revitilise idea of community of Beings.

>> No.15450033

Mark Fisher is the Rob Ager of social and political commentary.

>> No.15450249
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15450249

>>15445594
Starts off pretty good. The attempt to analyse mental health through the lens of dialectical materialism is reaching to say the least and the conclusion 'someone will think of something' is weak.

>> No.15450875

>>15446428
not invented by him but it's certainly the last idea that capitalism assumes is true. everything is built on the premise that we live in a perfect liberal utopia where the system can reach and infect everything

>> No.15451326

>>15445594
Marxist Cope

>> No.15451501

>>15445695
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU
iirc he references this scene in the book (or maybe I'm just imagining it). It's kind of funny, because that scene sums up Kacyznski's view of the human race's future.

>> No.15451516

>>15451326
*marxist blackpill

>> No.15451723

>>15445594
I thought it was good, it's a very good entry point for some concepts in postmodern social theory, but it's not nearly as deep as the classic postmodern works

>> No.15451756

>>15450249
I actually liked his angle on mental health, although it's not practically useful on an individual level

>> No.15451792

>>15451756
it is pretty good because it teaches you to take everything a psychologist says with a cubic meter of salt, they exist to rehabilitate you and make you fit for the meat grinder, they're not there to understand why the world makes you feel the way it does
also he picked that up straight from debord who probably picked it up from someone else, so read that too

>> No.15452226

>>15445594
I own it but I've never read it. I don't read suicides.

>> No.15452250
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15452250

>>15447871

>> No.15452403

>>15451723
>classic postmodern work
what are they

>> No.15452862

>>15446347
>read Jameson instead
This; Fisher doesn't really touch upon art outside of music, whereas Jameson, writing from the position of a literary critic, is able to conjure some really thoughtful analysis of Postmodern art, architecture, and literature. Obviously it shouldn't be babby's first foray into Postmodernism, but it's absolutely doable for any undergrad who puts the time into it

>> No.15452873

>>15448364
There's stuff on the syllabus not in book form, but here's the book list
Mark Fisher - Capitalist Realism
Karl Marx Selected Writings: 2nd Edition - Oxford Press
https://www.amazon.com/Karl-Marx-Selected-Writings-2nd/dp/0198782659
Ellen Meiksin-Woods - Empire of Capital
Roland Barthes - Writing Degree Zero
Edmund Wilson - To the Finland Station
Byung Chul-Han - The Burnout Society
Theodor Adorno - Minima Moralia
Alexander Galloway - Protocol
Fredric Jameson Reader

>> No.15453055

>>15449943
okay Dugin

>> No.15454344

>>15445594
bump

>> No.15455020

>>15451756
>>15451792
I'm hesitant to accept mental health advice from a nigga who killed himself desu.

>> No.15455035

His comments about the anxiety of work in this age were good.
>>15446385
???
Fuck off retard.

>> No.15455094

>>15455020
You'd rather get it from those who only guess at it, worse, only guess at what they barely read about those who guessed at it?

>> No.15455108

>>15455094
Yeah I'd prefer to get mental health advice from a professional and not a penniless nutjob who hanged himself. Sorry for not living up to your TRVE Marxist ideal.

>> No.15455117

>>15445594
A little overhyped. The ideas are interesting but I think they weren't expressed universally enough. The effort of going from managerial technicalities of the NHS to general ideas was a bit of a stretch i wish he had taken the time to expand on. Which i think he does in other places. Worth reading of course.

>> No.15455123

>>15445688
Its short and a bit overwritten, big post-2008 energy.

Its good

>> No.15455129

>>15446951
Anyone who complains about "modernity" is probably talking about the jews.
We're postmodern nowadays, its just capital seeking infinte profit at the helm.

>> No.15455253

>>15455108
>from a professional
KEK

>> No.15455276
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15455276

>>15455253
>atleast I didn't fall for the mental help meme

>> No.15455304

>>15455276
then go to a fucking "professional" and see it for yourself that how much he will give you the "mental help"

>> No.15455308

>>15455304
It's significantly more helpful than hanging yourself.

>> No.15455328

>>15455308
Kek, do you have any experience with a "professional"?

>> No.15455351

>>15455328
Yeah

>> No.15455373

>>15455351
good for you lad.
Mine was pretty bad, getting the "mental help" made me more suicidal, venerable, paranoid and robot like. I know several people who are still miserable even after getting decades of psychiatric help.

>> No.15455383
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15455383

>>15455373
I hope everything works out well for you and the people you know.

>> No.15455392

in CR he references the work of David Harvie, whose writing is interesting to anyone involved in education either as lecturer/teacher or as student, see 'value production and struggle in the classroom'

>> No.15456445

>>15446347
As a big fan of Fisher, I have to admit this is the route to take. Jameson should really be essential

>> No.15457996

>>15445594
it was weak

>> No.15458004

>>15445688
introductory postjamesionism

>> No.15458012
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15458012

I have been trying to get more into Marxist ideas, and I read this, and I don't understand why it's so big. At best, you can turn a blind eye to the clear methodological flaws, and then just enjoy the kooky impishness of his outlandish theories. But you can't defend the actual ideas. It's just full of these bizarre, unsubstantiated, provocative claims. Things like how Kurt Cobain killed himself because he realised he was feeding into MTV's problem (no mention of his failed marriage, heroin addiction, and stomach problems) or how the movie Heat somehow reflects 90s capitalist markets (even it's a remake of LA Takedown from decades earlier) or how he can tell students are depressed just by looking at his own students, who slouch and sometimes wear headphones (oh, yes, because students never slouched and goofed off before 2008). His other work seems full of this kind of stuff, like his Hauntology nonsense. The idea that art has only recently started co-opting the aesthetic of previous generations is nuts, just completely nuts. At best, his stuff is - I don't know - fun or clever, and it gives the same intellectual roller coaster ride of listening to a well thought out conspiracy theory about 9/11 or something, but that's it. If you tried to explain his ideas, in simple and clear language, to someone who isn't already loyal to the material, you wouldn't be able to substantiate the claims, and they'd think you're crazy.

>> No.15458024

>>15452862
>>15456445
>>15458004
what should I read after jamechad?

>> No.15458036

>>15458012
yes he's very conspiratorial in that sense, but I still could agree with the main gist of it
adam curtis is the /tv/ equivalent of fisher and he is the same in that aspect

>> No.15458250

>>15458012
>It's just full of these bizarre, unsubstantiated, provocative claims.
Welcome to the world of leftist theory.

>> No.15458308

>>15458012
>The idea that art has only recently started co-opting the aesthetic of previous generations is nuts
This is one of my biggest issues with Fisher. He comes across as completely out of touch. Weirdly he ends up adopting a conservative attitude of 'things were much better back in my day'.

>> No.15459250

Does K-Punk include this, or is it just unpublished stuff and posts from his blog?

>> No.15459306

>>15459250
It's stuff from his blog, the opening of Acid Communism and a few interviews iirc. Maybe give it a read if you're a real fan of his, otherwise give it a miss. Exiting the Vampire Castle and Terminator vs Avatar are the only things included worth reading.

>> No.15459334

>>15455108
forget hanging yourself, just OD on whatever sedative cuck pills you got prescribed you mental invalid

>> No.15459347
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15459347

>>15459334
You sound very upset. Maybe a (you) will calm your nerves.

>> No.15459355

>>15459334
lol kill yourself tripfag. nobody will ever take you seriously

>> No.15459381

>>15459306
Thanks. Vampire Castle is the only thing I've read of him, was just curious whether K-Punk was a 'best of' or a 'collectors only' kind of thing. I'll pick up Capitalist Realism instead.

>> No.15459487

>>15459250
As post one five four five nine three zero six says K-Punk is a huge book and a massive chunk of it is focused on British television, music and movies. Although some if it was interesting (he talks about Ligotti, for example) I just haven't watched or listened to a lot of the obscure stuff he references, or even some of the mainstream movies like Dark Knight so ended up skipping over it. It's all available online I think in blogform. The book is split into chapters based on focus, with a collection of essays in each one, and the latter chapters on politics and psychology (Vampire's Castle, Good For Nothing) are what I enjoyed most. Anything which is about the lived experience and tying one's own lived experience to wider social changes are really interesting IMO, rather than how some obscure short-lived 80s sitcom about time travel is relevant to Jameson's post-modern theory.

>> No.15459493

>>15459381
I'm not poster one five four five nine three zero six but I wouldn't start with K-Punk, if only because it's more expensive and you'll end up skipping a ton of stuff which when published were just blogposts he would write after work or whatever.