/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sat May 23 10:40:41 2020 No.15431642 [Reply] [Original]

>Religion is cringe bro, God is dead
>Proceeds to follow two thousand year old Christian values imbedded in their culture and way of living
Why do normies do this, are these people, as Nietzsche would put it, subhuman?

>muh human rights
>all humans are equal in dignity
ask a normie why and witness how his brain short circuits before desperately appealing to the UN declaration as some sort of cosmic justification for these beliefs

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 11:51:04 2020 No.15432075 File: 124 KB, 750x1000, 1590089889659.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15431642 >Why do normies do this, are these people, as Nietzsche would put it, subhuman? Yes

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 13:31:16 2020 No.15432683 File: 100 KB, 768x1024, EOWEGB6XsAACwIo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15432075 wtf I hate subhumans now

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 13:49:51 2020 No.15432787 Megacringe bro. Just because religion had the first widely organized movement towards virtue, doesn't mean that they are inherent and exclusive to said religion.

Anonymous Sat May 23 13:50:20 2020 No.15432791

>>15431642
>why do normies
because they're retarded and don't think. Nietzsche said "this is what morality actually is", and leftists interpreted it as "all morality is equal and relative". the curse of Nietzsche is that he was pithy and clever so you can pull a line or two from his philosophy that is in direct conflict with his thought when it's interpreted outside the context of all of his work

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 13:52:01 2020 No.15432797 >>15431642 you don’t need religion to know that treating people nicely is the right thing to do lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 13:53:22 2020 No.15432810 >>15431642 The so-called "golden rule" is millennia old, exists across many cultures, and wasn't always justified with religion

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 13:55:59 2020 No.15432820 >>15432810 Cringe most of the ancients had a morality that basically boils down to do good to my friends to harm to my enemies.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 14:00:54 2020 No.15432843 >>15431642 >>Proceeds to follow two thousand year old Christian values imbedded in their culture and way of living god still doesn't exist tho

Anonymous Sat May 23 14:24:10 2020 No.15432967

>>15431642
It's perfectly compatible, they attack Christianity from a viewpoint of not being "Christian" enough.

>"Umm, excuse me? Mr. Christ, sir? It looks like there are some deeply homophobic passages in this book it says you've inspired. Care to explain?"
>"..."
>"Well, look, do they have a Human Resources department up where you came from? We're going to need to give them a call to ask them if they really want to be seen as representing such regressive values in the current year. Thanks."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:25:31 2020 No.15433334 >>15431642 >muh human rights >all humans are equal in dignity What the fuck. Are you telling me the left embodies christian values? Is there no way to escape christian influence in the western political spectrum?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:39:09 2020 No.15433419 >>15431642 >Claiming the fundamental social dynamics that evolution has selected for as "Christian values" cringe

Anonymous Sat May 23 15:43:38 2020 No.15433445
File: 177 KB, 800x1202, Nietzsche.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15432797
>>15432810
>>15433419
You failed Nietzsche's test. You're doing exactly what the OP accuses normalfags of doing. You assume that we can have morality independent of Christianity that still LOOKS like the mostly-Christian morality we have now. We can't, and Nietzsche knew it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:45:29 2020 No.15433463 >>15433445 >implying you need a religious authority to be moral This is false unless you're a sociopath or psychopath, which I suspect is the case of anyone who seriously advances that case

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:47:35 2020 No.15433483 >>15432843 You don't exist, there's no point in acting like a random collection of atoms has sentience.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:47:35 2020 No.15433484 >>15433334 "Western" is "Christian". It's the same fucking shit. You can't escape it. Join Islam/Buddhism/Hinduism whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:51:09 2020 No.15433513 >>15433484 Religion truly does poison everything

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 15:59:09 2020 No.15433570 >>15431642 >>>Proceeds to follow two thousand year old Christian values imbedded in their culture and way of living >Lawlessness and immorality was the norm before Christians came around Why do Christian bugmen do this?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:04:04 2020 No.15433606 >>15433484 Western culture existed before Jesus and it still exists now that Jesus is dying.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:05:24 2020 No.15433613 >>15433570 People used to kill small babies, small children, the old, and the crippled when they ceased to be useful. The ancient world wasn't as nice a place as you think it is.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:06:44 2020 No.15433616 >>15433484 >"Western" is "Christian". Really, then explain why the majority of our foundations came from the Greeks.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:11:04 2020 No.15433647 >>15431642 Just because the god is made up doesnt mean the values are wrong or not beneficial to civilized society. The origins of those values is a topic for another discussion, but they sure didnt come from a sky daddy.

Anonymous Sat May 23 16:19:36 2020 No.15433694

>>15433606
You do realize how different our culture from Roman or Greek? Do we have anything similar to patria potestas?

>>15433606
>majority of our foundations came from the Greeks.

You mean from interpretations of Plato and Aristotle by Aquinas (or rather, the Aquinas's interpretations of Averroes's interpretations of Plato and Aristotle.)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:21:41 2020 No.15433706 >>15433484 Yes, yes throw away your slave morality for a new slave morality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:27:25 2020 No.15433740 >>15433463 Ask me how I know you're on SSRIs

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:28:27 2020 No.15433746 >>15433613 The whole ancient world wasn't Sparta retard

Anonymous Sat May 23 16:29:06 2020 No.15433753

>>15433694
I don't honour the Sabbath, I don't sacrifice children. I don't stone people to death for any reason at all. I don't think it's immoral to create artistic representations of living things. I don't think poverty is a good thing. I don't think sex is a bad thing. I don't think the Earth is flat. I don't think the Earth is 4000 years old. I don't think prayer cures illness. Shall I go on or have I made my meaning plain? You ask "What have the Romans ever done for us?" which is a question so absurd that it's literally the introduction to a joke. I'm asking: "What have the Christians ever done for us?" and the answer is notable by it's absence.
>"You mean from interpretations.."
This wasn't even directed at me and I'm still going to answer it, Plato and Aristotle are still taught in Philosophy classes. Christian Theology is only ever taught in Philosophy classes as a historical footnote. Plato speaks for himself, he needs no interpreter, unlike the Bible which is so divorced from Western Civilisation that we need an army of "re-interpreters" to twist the meaning of every single word, if we didn't do this, it wouldn't even be possible to be a Christian in the modern world,

Anonymous Sat May 23 16:52:43 2020 No.15433913

>>15433753
>I don't honour the Sabbath, I don't sacrifice children. I don't stone people to death for any reason at all. I don't think it's immoral to create artistic representations of living things. I don't think poverty is a good thing. I don't think sex is a bad thing. I don't think the Earth is flat. I don't think the Earth is 4000 years old. I don't think prayer cures illness

Half of these have nothing to do with Christianity. Do you believe humans possess individual soul? What about individual consciousness? Non-Christian readers of Aristotle had curious opinions on this subject, ex,: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes%27_theory_of_the_unity_of_the_intellect

>Plato and Aristotle are still taught in Philosophy classes

So what? Do these philosophy classes have serious impact on the modern culture? Have you ever wondered, why the theory about perfect state with shared children and eugenics seems so alien to most recent readers of Plato?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 16:54:48 2020 No.15433937 >>15433740 how do you know

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:06:02 2020 No.15434029 >>15433753 I’m no Christcuck, but half of what you said is from the Old Testament. Which is secondary to the New.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:10:32 2020 No.15434061 >>15433706 The book of Manu is part of the Hindu canon. That's the opposite of slave morality.

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:10:58 2020 No.15434062

>>15433913
>Half of these have nothing to do with Christianity
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
At this point, you're going to play language games and pretend that when Jesus claimed to be preserving the Old Testament laws, he somehow meant that he was abolishing them. You may even point to some instances where Jesus violated the laws of Leviticus, of course, the real reason for all this contradiction is the fact that each "Gospel" was written by a completely different sect of Christianity with a completely different view of Jesus and what he was doing, it was a mistake to combine four of these Gospels into a single book so that they can be cross-referenced. Of course, in practice churches around the world have no problem treating the Old Testament of the valid word of God when it suits them and declaring it "obsolete" when it doesn't.
>Do you believe humans possess individual soul
Yes I do actually, as the Greeks and Egyptians did, there is nothing in the Old Testament about immortal souls, however. If you want to dispute this we can get into the actual Hebrew words and their meanings.
>What about individual consciousness?
Yes, this is philosophy, not Christianity.
>Non-Christian readers of Aristotle had curious opinions on this subject
And by "Non-Christians" you are referring to Islam, otherwise known as: "Christianity: The Next Generation" of course they had some funny ideas. they had to square everything with that funny book of theirs, just as the Christians do, albeit, Christians are much more adept at ignoring their god then Muslims are: "God didn't really mean that! he was drunk when he wrote that passage, what he really meant was.."
>So what? Do these philosophy classes have serious impact on the modern culture?
Far more so then the actual, fundamental, tenets of Christianity, yes.
>"Have you ever wondered, why the theory about perfect state with shared children and eugenics seems so alien.."
Because it's not natural. It was a thought experiment. Christianity isn't natural, either, but it's also not a thought experiment so it's caused a lot more damage.

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:25:55 2020 No.15434196

>>15434062
You are understanding "Christianity" too literally. Your worldview is built on centuries of Christian thinkers, and before that Greek and Roman thinkers as well. They did not delineate between religion and philosophy and their ideas are inseparable from their belief in God.
If you reject truly reject religion, you have the fun task of rebuilding your worldview from scratch. Otherwise, you're just some heretic Christian.

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:26:55 2020 No.15434204

>>15433445
dont bother bro. this is gonna sound faggy but to really understand what nietzsche is saying it takes a shift in consciousness and re-evaluation of everything you take for granted. 99% of people wont pass the test. nietzsche himself says this too.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:30:06 2020 No.15434232 File: 56 KB, 917x276, postchristianity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434062 Liberalism is Christian or "Post-Christian" (still Christian) morality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:31:10 2020 No.15434243 Is Kantianism a good answer to Nietzsche? Kant was religious but he was explicitly trying to create a philosophy independent of God, built on human rationalism

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:35:49 2020 No.15434289 >>15434243 no. Nietzsche's overman is no autistic rationalist

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:39:03 2020 No.15434310

>>15434196
>"You are understanding "Christianity" too literally."
I forgot that the 11th Commandment was: "Thou shalt not take this bilge too seriously".
>"Your worldview is built on centuries of Christian thinkers"
You can't prove that Christianity is important so you're going to diffuse the definition of it until it's meaningless? Seems appropriate, that's what happened to the Christian god, he used to be literally real and looking down on us, now that that's untenable he's just some kind of vague spirit who lives outside our universe and only expresses himself though coincidence.
>"and before that Greek and Roman thinkers as well"
And what have heathens to do with Christianity?
>"They did not delineate between religion and philosophy and their ideas are inseparable from their belief in God"
And they produced nothing but Biblical fan fiction intended to explain away the faults of the infallible god, then the power of the church started to wane and genuine philosophy started to reappear.
>"If you reject truly reject religion"
"This peculiar kind of storm deity from an unremarkable part of the Middle East is the only valid religion, reject him and you are an atheist." he said with a straight face.
>"Otherwise, you're just some heretic Christian."
"I repeat" he iterated "There is only one kind of divinity, God is real and he's Mesopotamian."
>>15434232
Agreed. That's why it's intellectual poison.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:41:33 2020 No.15434332 >>15434310 are you capable of reading comprehension because nothing you say is correlating

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:47:43 2020 No.15434374

>>15434062
I don't really care about what Jesus said (was he even real?). Most Christian theology is stolen from Plotinus anyway.

And why do you keep bringing up Old Testament? Of course there's nothing in Judaism about immortal souls.

What relevant to the foundation of Western culture is the Medieval philosophy, which was 100% Christian theologians. There wouldn't be any Descartes and Gallileo nor Hobbes and Rousseau without it.

>And by "Non-Christians" you are referring to Islam, otherwise known as: "Christianity: The Next Generation"

Every person who read Aristotle from the Fall of Rome until at least about XIX century was either Christian or Muslim.
Western culture didn't start with some atheist US college professor.
There was no "Greek philosophy" revival a couple of hundred years ago, to which you could attribute the raise of a brand new "Christianity-free" Western culture.

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:48:29 2020 No.15434378

>>15434332
Forgive me, oh Bride of Christ. I am but a lowly heathen who has yet to hear the Good News. All I ask is that you tell me how the Bible has had any positive impact on Western Civilisation. Don't defend religion in general. Don't appeal to the precepts of someone else's religion. Don't appeal to the various concessions the church has had to make because their religion is indefensible. Give me some of that old time religion, the kind that was good enough for the Hebrew children.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:49:57 2020 No.15434391 >>15434289 I think it's worth separating Nietzsche's problem from Nietzsche's solution. At this point, the Overman seems as unattainable as True Communism.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:54:55 2020 No.15434426 >>15433740 I am not, I eat well and exercise regularly

Anonymous Sat May 23 17:57:10 2020 No.15434440

>>15434374
>What relevant to the foundation of Western culture is the Medieval philosophy, which was 100% Christian theologians

You know and I know that Medieval philosophy was nothing but Christians trying to twist Classical philosophy into a Christian framework and that consequently, it had little value. We also both know I can't prove it. I can't prove that Medieval folk songs were irrelevant to philosophy either, but we both know it's true.
>
Every person who read Aristotle from the Fall of Rome until at least about XIX century was either Christian or Muslim.
And he probably wore hose instead of trousers, that was just the way things were back then, there's no significance in it.
>Western culture didn't start with some atheist US college professor.
No, but i'd say it started in Classical Greece.
>There was no "Greek philosophy" revival a couple of hundred years ago,
There was a comprehensive revival of Classical Greek culture in the 18th century.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:58:05 2020 No.15434446 >>15434378 No one here is defending Christianity you brainlet. Do you have any idea what we're talking about? We are disgusted with Christianity, and we are saying that you are blindly following Christian morals while thinking yourself an atheist

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 17:59:38 2020 No.15434455 >>15433753 >Theologians on suicide watch

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:00:44 2020 No.15434461 >>15434446 Outline exactly what "Christian morals" are or you are just making ridiculous baseless claims

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:01:20 2020 No.15434467 >>15434440 Classic Greece was also destroyed by the death of God, you think the boyfuckers didn't have god as well?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:02:33 2020 No.15434472 >>15434461 See >>15434232

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:05:25 2020 No.15434494

>>15434472
Bro, you can't lay claim to "There is a good and a bad" and say anyone who uses that is stealing your "Christian morals", that is beyond asinine. All the points about the fundamentals of "Christian morals" were there with the Greeks, so if anything, "Christian morals" stole from the Greeks, and so if I adopt them I am using "Greek morals", not "Christian morals"

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:05:38 2020 No.15434495

>>15434446
All, I'm saying is that "Christianity" is not endemic to Western Civilisation, it is an outside influence, and it's been on it's way out for a long time. I don't think "Western" and "Christian" are equivalent, I think Christianity has had to tear large parts of itself away over the years because they are anathema to Western society. And I'm attempting to prove this by showing how much of "Cultural Christianity" as you might call it, has nothing to do with the actual tenets of the religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:07:16 2020 No.15434505 >>15434467 Are you saying that Zeus was real, but he's dead? What about the others?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:07:28 2020 No.15434509 >>15434472 Also, I reject moral absolutism, because it is infinitely interpreted by the individual, so that doesn't even apply

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:07:38 2020 No.15434510 >>15434440 Seems like you have your own view on the history of philosophy, could you name a few 18th century atheist thinkers, who completely reinterpreted Classical Greek writings free of any Christian influence?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:07:48 2020 No.15434513 File: 84 KB, 850x400, n5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15432797 You actually do retard

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:09:41 2020 No.15434523 >>15434446 >and we are saying that you are blindly following Christian morals while thinking yourself an atheist this Jordan Peterson is unironically right when he says that atheists are lying self denying Christians

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:10:52 2020 No.15434536

>>15434513
Evolution gave us an intrinsic sense of fairness and empathy necessary for the synergistic benefits of group living and combined directed force. The only people who need a divine authority to get them to be socially well adjusted are sociopaths and psychopaths

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:13:52 2020 No.15434553 File: 159 KB, 1242x1429, EIjDid6XkAIR7sy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434536 >Evolution gave us an intrinsic sense of fairness and empathy prove it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:15:56 2020 No.15434567 File: 59 KB, 960x882, comeonnow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434553 >He doesn't understand evolution

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:18:33 2020 No.15434587 >>15434523 >If you have morals based on fairness and maximizing human flourishing you are adopting morals unique to Christianity even though Christianity stole them from previous traditions try harder christcuck

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:19:10 2020 No.15434595 >>15434536 What is this retarded appeal to nature? Just because a group gets evolutionary benefit from a trait doesnt make trait itself good or bad. What you are saying is just outdated utilitarianism mixed with evolutionary psychology

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:20:01 2020 No.15434604 >>15434595 How could you possibly advocate for a moral system without appealing to it's utility?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:20:33 2020 No.15434609 File: 102 KB, 400x429, 400px-Kodeks_tudela_21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434567 Does evolution only work on whites?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:22:09 2020 No.15434620 >>15434604 define utility, utility for whom?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:23:07 2020 No.15434624 >>15434609 It operates where ever there is an exchange of labor or goods within a group. Unironically the only deviation from this is with religious mandates

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:23:11 2020 No.15434625 >>15434536 >The only people who need a divine authority to get them to be socially well adjusted are sociopaths and psychopaths Cool it with the antisemitic remarks, anon.

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:23:44 2020 No.15434628

>>15434510
I can't prove anything, Christianity has happened, anything that came afterwards could have been caused partially or entirely by it. I think the waning power of the Church after the Reformation was the reason Philosophical works attained a higher quality then was attained from the Dark Ages to the Medieval Period when the Church was at the height of it's influence, that's my understanding of it.
>>15434523
I am not an Atheist, it is possible to believe in immortal souls and gods without subscribing to Christianity, I don't subscribe to Christianity/Judaism or Islam because the Bible is quite obviously a book written by men, and not a very good one at that. It's possible to deny the authority of this particular book without being a materialist.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:23:47 2020 No.15434630 >>15434587 what "previous" tradition has had more influence on Western culture and its people than Christianity, I'm patiently waiting

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:25:07 2020 No.15434646 >>15434604 Yes but from evolutionory perspective utility is just what increases fitness of species. I dont see that correlating with morality

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:25:27 2020 No.15434649 >>15434630 English Common Law.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:26:54 2020 No.15434658 File: 61 KB, 800x450, large.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434649 >English Common Law. >Has nothing to do with Christianity I hope this post was ironic

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:28:14 2020 No.15434665

>>15434513
Well whats stopping us from just adopting christian values and remove the whole "man in the sky" concept? Why can't we take the things we like in religion, expand on that, and remove the things we don't like? For example let's take homos as an example. They are clearly treated unjust in most religions, why don't we remove parts like that so that we can achieve a "just" society?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:28:46 2020 No.15434670 why has no one in this thread been able to point to a christian value? seems kinda suspicious...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:28:48 2020 No.15434672 >>15434628 I never accused you of being a materialist, and I find it strange how you would feel obliged to reply to my post when I was clearly speaking to atheists

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:29:13 2020 No.15434677

>>15434620
Utility within utilitarianism is what ever promotes happiness, pleasure or what is desirable. This extends into the future and within social groups where there are a lot of uncertain factors, meaning generally moral systems that promote the cooperation of an individual with his neighbors is valuable. If you were to exist solely for your own interests you may think it maximizes your own happiness ect, but a full examination shows that is not the best model to adopt as we are dependent on our group, culture society for many of the things we deem necessary or desirable

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:30:15 2020 No.15434685 >>15434630 >T H E G R E E K S

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:30:16 2020 No.15434687 File: 309 KB, 1620x1080, 20181106PHT18308_original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434670 here you go, literally Christian theology in secular form

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:31:25 2020 No.15434696

>>15434536
The assumption being that religion itself isn't an evolutionary construct of culture which might have been developed to extend the reach of empathy beyond say the borders of the family. And of course you have no notion of what a world without religion even looks like. Your entire perception of the world is formed by religious thought. A few years of local edgelord atheism isn't enough to wash away thousands of years of cultural programming and you don't know what a fellow human being will look like to you when that is gone.

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:31:41 2020 No.15434697

>>15434685
Christian theologians influenced early Church fathers, so what's your point? Point me to ONE philosophical position of the Greeks that goes against Christianity, but still had a enormous impact on Western culture and its people for the past 2000 years

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:32:12 2020 No.15434702 >>15433445 Greek ethical philosophy predates Christianity and has nothing to do with it, asshat.

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:32:26 2020 No.15434704

>>15434646
define what you do consider correlating with morality and I can guarantee it has some sort of utilitarianism in that it seeks to maximize some perceived good which is almost certainly related to pleasure, happiness, or some kind of alignment with what is deemed a desirable state

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:32:32 2020 No.15434705

>>15434658
The Bible's position on murder, theft or rape, is quite vague, it's good when the right sort of people are doing it. Jesus, for his part didn't have much to say on the topic. There's a lot of stuff in the bible about animal sacrifice and neurotic dietary laws though.
>>15434672
I wrote the post, that promoted the reply, that promoted your agreement, so I assumed that was directed at me.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:32:44 2020 No.15434707 >>15434697 >>15434685 edit: I mean that Greek philosophers influenced early Church fathers

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:33:43 2020 No.15434711 >>15434697 >The parts of Greek philosophy that were good were co-opted by Christianity so now its no longer Greek but Christian Thats not how it works anon

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:34:16 2020 No.15434715 >>15434687 meaningless international diplomatic text is a christian value? how so?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:34:47 2020 No.15434718 >>15434677 >happiness, pleasure I don't agree that these things are what's most desirable, I think humans have much higher needs than that. I literally disagree with your axioms

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:34:49 2020 No.15434719 >>15433484 That's the dumbest post I've ever read.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:34:55 2020 No.15434720 File: 422 KB, 840x472, sam har.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >proves objective morality without religious superstition >has still never been refuted

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:34:56 2020 No.15434721 >>15434697 The concept of self-governance. The Bible dictates that Kings rule by divine favour and are therefore their authority is absolute.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:36:12 2020 No.15434728 >>15434697 greek philosophy influenced christian theology but I wouldnt go that far. Greek philosophers wouldnt have been Christian

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:36:34 2020 No.15434732 >>15434718 Higher needs in service of what?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:36:44 2020 No.15434733 >>15434718 Your personal views are irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:37:41 2020 No.15434737 >>15434720 Shhh, the christcucks will just come out with ad homs

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:37:59 2020 No.15434742 >>15434733 prove it

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:38:08 2020 No.15434744 >>15434705 >the bible about animal sacrifice and neurotic dietary laws though. I love it when uncultured atheists conflate the OT with the NT. Christ literally did away with the dietary laws in the gospels

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:38:43 2020 No.15434749 >>15434742 Expound on what those "higher needs" are in service of

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:39:03 2020 No.15434753 >>15434744 you're on a real hair trigger and you totally missed the actual substance of his post because you were so eager to jump on a quick "gotcha"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:39:11 2020 No.15434755 >>15434711 strawman. Please respond to my argument instead.15434715

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:39:48 2020 No.15434759 >>15434744 >I come not to abolish the old laws but to fulfill them Ahh I know, he meant he was abolishing them! Thanks for interpreting for us

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:40:16 2020 No.15434763 >>15434721 It does?

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:40:45 2020 No.15434767

>>15434744
And he, himself, had nothing to say about substantial to say about mortality, which is why Christians is need of moral authority appeal to the Old Testament when it serves their turn, but when it doesn't they'll argue that it's been abrogated by divine order.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:41:09 2020 No.15434771 >>15434755 >When Christians co-opt a philosophy, it ceases to be the previous philosophy, but when I happen to have similar concepts to Christianity, I am using Christian morals Your position is incoherent due to it's self refutation

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:41:20 2020 No.15434775 >>15434715 Secular liberal morality is completely based on the idea of Man being created in the imagine of God. That "meaningless" piece of paper forms the basis for all of normie morality in the year 2020.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:42:55 2020 No.15434788 >>15434733 so are yours

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:43:10 2020 No.15434793 >>15434775 In your dreams, wingnut.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:43:28 2020 No.15434798 >>15434775 It's based on the intrinsic worth of every individual which dates back to the Greeks and even farther, Christians who lay claim to this as uniquely Christian are beyond dishonest

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:43:29 2020 No.15434799

>>15434759
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body. He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:43:52 2020 No.15434802

>>15434763
It does indeed, there are a lot of stories in the Old Testament about Yaweh declaring that the current king is corrupt and his brother/cousin/son must replace him. This is ancient propaganda, rulers in the ancient world would commonly justify their reign by ordering scribes to write stories declaring it an appointment by divine order. The New Testament says nothing about governance, other then Jesus reminding us to pay our taxes.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:44:00 2020 No.15434805 >>15434665 Who gets to decide what we like and what we dont? You can easily find large groups of people in history or even to day who will say to you that in just society homosexuals shouldnt get the same treatment as the rest.

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:44:35 2020 No.15434811

>>15434775
>Secular liberal morality is completely based on the idea of Man being created in the imagine of God.
please help me not see this as schizo talk

>That "meaningless" piece of paper forms the basis for all of normie morality in the year 2020.
no one actually does what the un says anon, it really is meaningless

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:45:55 2020 No.15434821

>>15434771
Strawman, again. I never claimed it ceased to be the previous philosophy, I simply say that Christianity incorporated parts of Greek philosophy that was in line with Christian theology, hence it's you can't point me to a single example of a greek philosophical position that contradicts Christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:46:40 2020 No.15434831 ok ok retard here. what's baby's first steps into nietzsche?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:47:22 2020 No.15434834 >>15432797 You're taking a lot of foundational stuff for granted man.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:47:30 2020 No.15434837 >>15434799 Ah I see, he says contradictory things so people can pick and choose parts to support literally any position they want. I wonder why it could possibly be that modern day Christians and so divided

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:47:34 2020 No.15434838 >>15434805 Isn't that more of a discussion regarding the state or rulers? I mean the government tells us what not to like (things that are against the law) and what to like (vice versa naturally).

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:47:44 2020 No.15434840 >>15434821 Most of Epicureanism contradicts Christian theology.

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:47:54 2020 No.15434842

>>15434798
You people are so autistic, God! WHO cares if the Greeks came up with the idea of inartistic worth of every individual first?! It's still part of Christianity AND, most importantly, can't be defended on materialist grounds.

This is what I'm talking about, you're all fake atheists, LARPing materialist subhumans

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:48:09 2020 No.15434843 >>15434798 >he intrinsic worth of every individual which dates back to the Greeks ??? which ones

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:48:22 2020 No.15434844 Even if Western morality truly comes from Greeks or whatever, Greek philosophy was also tightly integrated with their religious beliefs. Are you slaying lambs for Zeus yet?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:48:36 2020 No.15434847 >>15434821 I don't have to show that, I simply have to show my positions have roots in Greek philosophy to prove they are not "Christian morals", which I have done

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:49:06 2020 No.15434854 >>15434802 "Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:50:18 2020 No.15434861 >>15434494 >you can't lay claim to "There is a good and a bad" Sure I can, this is literally Zoroastrianism.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:50:37 2020 No.15434863 >>15434840 And what part of his Philosophy has, even, had an iota of the same impact on Western people as Christianity has had for the last 2000 years?

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:51:21 2020 No.15434869

>>15434842
so if a christian believes something, it becomes a christian value
and if other people believe the same thing, they are appropriating christian values?
hmmmm... sounds retarded
is there anyone here who actually believes there is a christian value in western culture?

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:53:33 2020 No.15434893

>>15434842
It absolutely can be defended on materialist grounds. It is specific organizations of material parts that form individuals who have worth. Subjective experience arises from material components in certain formulations and as each person has access to that form of subjective experience they can not only understand that phenomenon in other individuals but also realize that the reality of group dynamics mean that there are optimal moral systems to maximize positive states of subjective experience and that they are synergistic, meaning acts of kindness between two people have a greater effect than if those two people had done selfish acts instead

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:54:03 2020 No.15434896 >>15434854 Quite vague, could be interpreted as an argument for anarchy, theocracy or just good-old fashioned anti-social behaviour. I'd need to see which original Hebrew word was translated as "prince" to actually know what they were advocating for.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:55:06 2020 No.15434904 >>15434861 >western values are based on "Zoroastrian values" I think you're getting somewhere with this, anon

Anonymous Sat May 23 18:55:13 2020 No.15434907

>>15434798
>intrinsic worth of every individual which dates back to the Greeks

Sounds like bullshit actually. What Greeks have came up with this? Why do you even treat Greeks as a single entity? Philosophers contradicted each other all the time, and Spartan culture is vastly different from the one of Athens.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:55:51 2020 No.15434912 >>15434811 Tell me this honestly, and I swear on my life I will, I will conceded this argument and call you a winner: On what basis is it wrong to believe that other races should be treated as my peoples property and killed on sight?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:56:15 2020 No.15434918 >>15434837 You might want to read the NT, Jesus is a straightforward guy. It seems quite unfair to accuse a man of such things when he chose torture and execution over retraction.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:57:41 2020 No.15434927 >>15434918 To be fair, being resurrected take a bit away from the sacrifice of dying

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:58:09 2020 No.15434930 >>15434704 The point of morality is that it should point you to some "desirable state" as you said. But it isnt self evident if that should be maximizing pleasure while reducing suffering or Nietzschean overman or something different

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:58:16 2020 No.15434931 >>15434893 Answer this: >>15434912

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:58:33 2020 No.15434933 >>15434918 >Jesus is a straightforward guy. bruh what he literally speaks in parables all the time

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 18:59:01 2020 No.15434935 >>15434904 Nah, it's just you've accidental uttered a gnostic point. Happens every time. Heresy's a widespread. Canon Christianity doesn't say "there's a bad", this would be a blasphemy.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:01:55 2020 No.15434961

>>15434927
But that part is an invention according to the opposition. Also there might be some extra pain involved in the whole getting tortured and murdered by your children situation and where this will lead them. Not that we can know what all this means through the eyes of God.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:03:42 2020 No.15434971

>>15434912
Well, first and foremost, slavery was largely abolished because freemen are literally a better labor force than slave labor as explained by Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations, but second is because that mindset is a mindset of war, which not only obviously decreases the prosperity of those you kill, but also decreases your own potential in a number of ways, perhaps the most obvious is the damage it does to the possibility of trade. Trade can only occur on large scales when there is peace.

TL;DR, trade, freedom, and cooperation are better strategies then war, tyranny, and domination

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:03:48 2020 No.15434972 >>15434933 Which generally are easy enough to understand that they're used to teach children.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:05:16 2020 No.15434985 >>15434961 I mean, supposing you are actually an aspect of the creator of the universe, it's a bit self sadistic when you could have created things differently or changed them at any time

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:07:06 2020 No.15435006 >>15434972 not really desu people still argue about them

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:08:01 2020 No.15435014 >>15434985 You don't know if it was possible to achieve a more optimal outcome. If you believe in an allmighty God the answer is a definite no. For whatever purpose this was created the formulation we are living in is the most perfect possible.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:08:12 2020 No.15435016

>>15434971
your axiom = capital over people. Also, your idea of freedom is completely in opposition to mine. I don't believe that freedom is the pursuit of happiness.

I don't buy it dude, and neither did the Nazis, which is why Liberals never deploy this economic argument but always resort to "we are all equal" when trying to argue against racism

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:08:18 2020 No.15435017

>>15434933
About a century after Jesus supposedly died, there were about a hundred different groups each trying to sell their own particular Jesus story, each one wildly different from the last, most of these were considered to be heretical by the early Church because they openly conflicted with some of the ideas the church was trying to push. The Four gospels that make up the New Testament were chosen because they didn't openly defy the church's positions, they were not, however, in agreement with each other. This is why Jesus says contradictory things. This is also why the parables seem obtuse, each book makes sense on it's own, but as a quadrilogy Jesus ends up looking like a rambling schizo,

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:08:45 2020 No.15435022

>>15434912
>On what basis is it wrong to believe that other races should be treated as my peoples property and killed on sight?
pseudo question asking multiple things at once, but I'll answer a few for you
Why don't I want to kill other people?:
Because you are a healthy social mammal without anti-social predilections, you understand reciprocity
Why shouldn't I kill other people?:
Because it would be very bad for you, in terms of how society would treat you and how your own inbuilt empathy would turn on you
Obvious response from you:
So there is nothing objective about refraining from murder?
Answer: You are just begging further questions that inevitably lead to some grandiose claim of dharma/salvation/etc

Feel free to rage in your desire for objective morality, none of this has anything to do with establishing
>Man being created in the image of God
being the basis of law protecting individual freedom, which I still want an explanation for

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:10:13 2020 No.15435031 >>15435022 I'm not talking about individual murder dude, I'm specifically speaking about Racial supremacy.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:10:20 2020 No.15435033 >>15434838 Only if you think that your ruler is some divine pharon like figure. If not then the laws they make can differ from the things you believe are good/true

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:10:34 2020 No.15435034 >>15435006 People argue about everything.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:10:45 2020 No.15435037 >>15432791 Well the idea is that morality is relative if not tied down to an absolute justification; hence why we would deem moral statements as irrelevant as they don't subscribe to reality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:11:05 2020 No.15435039 >>15435022 Curious, could you give an argument against pedophilia, the one Greeks would agree with?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:11:36 2020 No.15435043 >>15434863 Are you even listening to yourself? What are you trying to say?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:11:37 2020 No.15435045 >>15435034 no they don't

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:11:58 2020 No.15435047 Is this another one of those threads in which humanists try in vain to rescue Nietzsche from his comically edgy actual position

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:12:26 2020 No.15435053

>>15435022
>Man being created in the image of God
>being the basis of law protecting individual freedom, which I still want an explanation for

what is human rights? what is equal before the law? what is equal human dignity? what is sanctity of human liberty?

Are you literally denying that the classical Liberals didn't use the Bible as a justification for these moral claims?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:12:36 2020 No.15435054 >>15435031 Then you're putting words in my mouth, because I don't feel (nor did most people throughout history, especially the torah authors) any need to argue against "racial supremacy" The objectionable part of your statement is murdering people

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:13:00 2020 No.15435055 >>15435045 Yes they do. (example 1)

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:13:12 2020 No.15435057

>>15435016
I believe that the free employment of people's capital leads to the proliferation of capital to a point, but that the end goal of production is consumption, and that producers interests should only be attended to in so far as they serve the consumers.

Freedom, in my view, is the lack of an oppressive force directing your action. This is why governments should be watched closely so they don't become too invasive, but also corporate power should be limited so they don't tyrannize the market

What is your idea of "freedom", and also, whatever you do pursue, is it not in some sense to move closer to a state you find desirable? Is it not splitting hairs to avoid calling this "the pursuit of happiness"?

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:16:26 2020 No.15435073

>>15435022
Not that anon
>Man being created in the image of God
To assert that humans are created in the image of God may mean to recognize some special qualities of human nature which allow God to be made manifest in humans. For humans to have a conscious recognition of having been made in the image of God may mean that they are aware of being that part of the creation through whom God's plans and purposes best can be expressed and actualized; humans, in this way, can interact creatively with the rest of creation. The moral implications of the doctrine of Imago Dei are apparent in the fact that, if humans are to love God, then humans must love other humans whom God has created (cf. John 13:35), as each is an expression of God. The human likeness to God can also be understood by contrasting it with that which does not image God, i.e., beings who, as far as we know, are without this spiritual self-awareness and the capacity for spiritual / moral reflection and growth. We may say that humans differ from all other creatures because of the self-reflective, rational nature of their thought processes - their capacity for abstract, symbolic as well as concrete deliberation and decision-making. This capacity gives the human a centeredness and completeness which allows the possibility for self-actualization and participation in a sacred reality (cf. Acts 17:28). However, despite the fact that according to this concept the human is created in God's image, the Creator granted the first true humans a freedom to reject a relationship with the Creator that manifested itself in estrangement from God, as the narrative of the Fall (Adam and Eve) exemplifies, thereby rejecting or repressing their spiritual and moral likeness to God. The ability and desire to love one's self and others, and therefore God, can become neglected and even opposed. The desire to repair the Imago Dei in one's life can be seen as a quest for a wholeness, or one's "essential" self, as described and exemplified in Christ's life and teachings. According to Christian doctrine, Jesus acted to repair the relationship with the Creator and freely offers the resulting reconciliation as a gift.
I think he was refferring to that

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:18:44 2020 No.15435087

>>15435057
I believe in a more classic sense of freedom, freedom from my own vices for one. I believe it's the states job to minimize the risk of my animalistic urges to trick me into pursuing my immediately gratifying wants, rather than abstaining from such behavior in favor of my long term needs.

Pornography (& other drugs) is a perfect example, as I believe that such medium should be banned, because it might lead me to commit a vice that's going to do harm to me.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:20:08 2020 No.15435097

>>15435053
Some used the Bible for it, other denounced the Bible for being harmful to human rights
Some people cited the Vedas, other Gathas, Hammurabi portrayed himself getting laws from Shamash
It might surprise you to learn everyone, everywhere, has made laws and advocated for charity, empathy, and how things should be

>>15435073
Sure, I'm not saying you can't use the Bible or any other text that touches on human behavior to codify a law
I want(ed) to know specifically, a value I or anyone I know holds, that is Christian. A Christian doing something does not make it Christian. A declaration on the way things should be is absolutely not Christian, the assertion is laughable

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:21:29 2020 No.15435105

>>15435073
Did you know that line about men and women being created in the image of God, was slipped in at a later date? In the original, Adam is explicitly identified as one of the animals. This bit of trivia has no relevance to the discussion about Liberalism that's going on, I just thought everybody should know.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:22:10 2020 No.15435107

>>15435097
>Some used the Bible for it, other denounced the Bible for being harmful to human rights
>Some people cited the Vedas, other Gathas, Hammurabi portrayed himself getting laws from Shamash
None of which is on the basis of Materialism, but please try again

you completely missed my point

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:23:10 2020 No.15435115

>>15435033
I think we have strayed away from our discussion. As to who gets to decide what's right and wrong, like Christians believe in what god deems right or wrong, the atheist should decide for themselves. Well how are you going to implement that? Well the rational and wise of the atheist get to decide.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:23:14 2020 No.15435116 >>15435087 Ah, you are so weak willed you cry out for an authority to domineer you, I understand

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:24:55 2020 No.15435129 >>15435116 funny. I hope your boy turns into a tranny after witnessing who faggots fucking each other in the broad public daylight in San Francisco

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:25:44 2020 No.15435136

>>15435107
>None of which is on the basis of Materialism
>Are you literally denying that the classical Liberals didn't use the Bible as a justification for these moral claims?
Are you schizo, or do you really think you can just pretend you asked a different question?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:27:03 2020 No.15435149 >>15435136 Why did I ask that question? My original question (read the OP) is this: "Human Rights" cannot be defended on materialist grounds.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:30:21 2020 No.15435173

>>15435149
Human rights are defended with the 2nd amendment and vigilance
So yes, they absolutely are defended on materialist grounds, but by all means clutch your Bible while some dunecoon tries to cut your head off for being an infidel
And no, none of this has come close to establishing that liberty comes from Christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:30:41 2020 No.15435177 >>15435129 Careful there anon, the government you wish for won't take too kindly to you using naughty words

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:32:31 2020 No.15435188 >>15435173 >might makes right Every. Single. Time. All materialists I have ever argued with come to this point, once pushed into a corner

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:34:08 2020 No.15435197 >>15435188 >defending a set of rights is the same as power making it right try again, and this time try to actually understand his position

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:34:14 2020 No.15435198 >>15435188 christoids do the same thing though

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:35:00 2020 No.15435206 >>15435188 >laws don't come from force yea your bible sure is protecting all those little christian girls from being abducted and raped in egypt wonder why your objective morality seems to fail within certain borders...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:40:26 2020 No.15435232 >>15435188 Job would like to have a word with you.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:41:41 2020 No.15435239 >>15435206 Laws don't come from force you fucking illiterate subhuman. Laws are enforced (see it's in the word) with force. There's a difference, being that those who enforce laws don't make them.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:41:52 2020 No.15435241 >>15435197 >>15435198 >>15435206 >Put three materialists in a room and get three different arguments absolute state of relativism

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:42:48 2020 No.15435247 >>15435241 >Original thought bad The absolute state of whatever you believe in.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:44:42 2020 No.15435266

>>15435239
>Laws don't come from force you fucking illiterate subhuman
Do I really need to start providing examples, or are you already embarrassed?
>There's a difference, being that those who enforce laws don't make them.
That is a very modern development

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:44:48 2020 No.15435268 >>15435247 >Originality for the sake of originality is actually good the absolute state of philosophical progressivism

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:46:02 2020 No.15435279 >>15434702 Well, Christianity is a "Platonism for the masses" for a reason, you know...

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:46:31 2020 No.15435283 >>15435266 >That is a very modern development No it fucking isn't. You think the pharaohs patrolled the streets for the B/C equivalent of crack dealers?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:47:43 2020 No.15435290 >>15435241 Because no three theists ever had different arguments....

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:49:14 2020 No.15435302 >>15435283 Anon, Egypt wasn't patrolled by ancient batman vigilantes There exists the authority and very real use of force down chains of command

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:49:20 2020 No.15435305 >>15435279 Platonism is equally retarded, so that fits.

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:50:49 2020 No.15435314

>>15435268
You just stated that you see diversity in your opponents as being "for the sake of originality", did you ever pause to consider that each person is arguing from a specific viewpoint and as such has something to offer to the debate? Adherence to groupthink doesn't make you right anon, try entertaining other viewpoints in an honest manner, you may learn something

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:54:59 2020 No.15435346 File: 124 KB, 945x1020, 136.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435302 >egypt wasn't patrolled by ancient batman vigilantes Then how do you explain all those depictions of people wearing animal masks? Batman has nothing on pic related.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 19:57:10 2020 No.15435362 File: 115 KB, 340x507, Yakub.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435346 it's.... real?

Anonymous Sat May 23 19:57:41 2020 No.15435366

>>15435302
Ancient Egypt had a police force, they were called the 'Medjay', But their jurisdiction was rather limited. Mob justice, however was a major part of law enforcement for most of human history, so whilst legislation may have existed, day-to-day law enforcement was mostly handled by ordinary citizens until the 19th century.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:09:41 2020 No.15435424 >>15435362 >mfw Anubis and Yakub were the ancient batman and joker Dogman died protecting the black race. F

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:16:37 2020 No.15435459 >>15435424 lol

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:18:14 2020 No.15435471 File: 25 KB, 474x474, 17845941789478.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435346 >people wearing animal masks? those weren't masks

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:20:21 2020 No.15435490 >>15434720 He couldn't even win an argument with a fat Scottish man.

Anonymous Sat May 23 20:23:01 2020 No.15435518

>>15435366
>Mob justice, however was a major part of law enforcement for most of human history, so whilst legislation may have existed, day-to-day law enforcement was mostly handled by ordinary citizens until the 19th century.
materialists btfo
based villagers stoning whores in the name of god f*ck the pharaoh

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:25:29 2020 No.15435536 >>15435518 Put the brakes on that brain-train, man. I'm taking about the Hue and Cry, not Sharia law.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:30:10 2020 No.15435570 >>15435471 animals... in people suits?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:30:36 2020 No.15435577 >>15435536 the mob doesn't care what you're talking about

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:41:18 2020 No.15435641 >>15435577 I'm not saying mob justice is a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily have to lead to barbarity, there were, for example, severe penalties for raising the alarm frivolously,

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:48:06 2020 No.15435670 File: 21 KB, 675x422, lara-logan-assaulted-in-egypt-1080x675.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435366 >ywn dispense justice as part of an egyptian mob it is truly a travesty to be born white

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:50:20 2020 No.15435684 >>15434767 You're out of your fucking mind if you think the OT and Jesus himself had "nothing substantial to say about morality" get your head out of your ass.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:51:57 2020 No.15435695 >>15435684 what did jesus say about morality?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:55:09 2020 No.15435710 >>15434971 >Its only bad because it hurts trade This is your brain on Atheism, and they claim people who do good because god told them are psychopaths.

Anonymous Sat May 23 20:55:24 2020 No.15435713

Neitziche is the ultimate cuckold. It's not out of any particular dislike of his works I say that, it's just that pop culture has completely cucked his philosophy and interpreted it as the exact opposite of what he intended.
Neitziche said "god is dead", then he tried to find a way to create a Moral foundation for a post-religion world, Neitziche wasn't (or at least, didn't want to be) a Nihilist, he wanted a foundation for bettering himself spiritually without religion, which he mostly failed to find.

Meanwhile pop culture has turned all of his philosophy into "lol god isn't real life doesn't matter act like a total degenerate it doesn't matter bro. Hedonism and materialism good, spirituality bad".
Poor guy must be rolling in his grave.

Anonymous Sat May 23 20:56:12 2020 No.15435721

>>15435670
>“Whoever kills a cat in Egypt is condemned to death, whether he committed this crime deliberately or not. The people gather and kill him. An unfortunate Roman, who accidentally killed a cat, could not be saved, either by King Ptolemy of Egypt or by the fear which Rome inspired.”

Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'till it's gone?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 20:58:55 2020 No.15435735 File: 50 KB, 604x516, 88f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435721 >get a good kick in while you and your bros beat an imperialist roman to death for hurting a kitty >get some free poon on the way home god i wish i was egyptian

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:03:23 2020 No.15435757 >>15432683 Yes you do

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:04:12 2020 No.15435763

>>15435695
He reiterated the ten commandments during the sermon on the mount. Pointed to "do onto others" and "love your god" as the most important and the "golden rule". He taught forgiveness to a fault. I honestly don't see how you can read the gospels and come to the conclusion Christ said nothing about morality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:05:46 2020 No.15435772 File: 398 KB, 1600x1000, CranialDeformation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435362 The head, yes. The Akhenaten line of the Egyptian royals had it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:07:26 2020 No.15435783 >>15431642 >Haha, what's a Kant A world in which people could negate God without being chastised could exist only after someone created a system of metaphysics not dependent on any kind of God. Kant did that, and so religion was unneeded for ethics.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:11:36 2020 No.15435817

>>15435763
>He reiterated the ten commandments during the sermon on the mount
so that seems to be a point in favor of the person you're responding to, that the OT has the "moral teachings"

>Pointed to "do onto others"
>the "golden rule"
agreed, jesus said these things that every culture ever has affirmed

>"love your god"
not a very interesting "moral" point in a conversation about the alleged moral origins of secular western culture
and, as if I need to say this, not a very unique teaching

>He taught forgiveness to a fault
example?

>I honestly don't see how you can read the gospels and come to the conclusion Christ said nothing about morality.
I'm not that other guy, and I don't have a problem with Jesus, but he really didn't say much on morality IMO. He was very evasive in general, basically denying worldly authority using magic to help people

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:14:09 2020 No.15435835 File: 213 KB, 1660x1140, 1589040086991.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434536 t. conjectures

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:15:25 2020 No.15435846 File: 115 KB, 400x528, 1586637717441.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434609

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:16:27 2020 No.15435851

>>15435817
He was the god from the old testament. Its the same moral teachings just a more personalized form.

I'm not arguing from a "who did it first" perspective, I'm simply saying that Christians having to go to the OT because jesus said nothing about morality is pants on head retarded.

as for forgiveness to a fault, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, give someone who robs you the coat off your back, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:17:21 2020 No.15435857 File: 37 KB, 474x244, 0046_17.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435835 >evolution doesn't exist >but god does

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:20:17 2020 No.15435882 >>15435846 >a man being martyd is the same as sacrifice

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:21:02 2020 No.15435888

>>15435851
ah ok
>as for forgiveness to a fault, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, give someone who robs you the coat off your back, etc.
yea I'd agree these are fairly "unique" christian moral teachings, and more positive than negative overall to boot
but for the context of the conversation happening earlier, these are certainly not western values
a christian in this sense would have much more in common with a jain than most westerners

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:22:06 2020 No.15435898 >>15435888 Meh, I find Islamic morality to be far more empowering than Christian.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:22:36 2020 No.15435905 >>15435882 you sound like theres a difference

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:23:24 2020 No.15435912 File: 25 KB, 333x500, unnamed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15434536 If so it is manifested in religiosity

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:23:40 2020 No.15435914 >>15435857 you don't need to pick any, evolution is not the substitute for god (or is it?)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:23:52 2020 No.15435917 >>15435905 Yes, there is. One is done to appease god the other is done by the enemy of god. Christianity hinges on the fact god made himself a sacrifice so man wouldn't have to. Its night and day.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:25:54 2020 No.15435935
File: 23 KB, 450x450, Blackadder.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15435851
Those moral teachings can all be summed up as "When I tell you to do it, it's fine", the Bible never condemns killing or rape or even polyamory or incest, as long as God's people are doing it, it's fine. And there's also some pedantic stuff about how to kill an animal in such a way as to cause maximal suffering. Jesus preached tolerance and understanding, both ideas contradict each other and neither is consistent and complete enough to be a moral system on it's own.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:26:41 2020 No.15435942

>>15435888
I'll agree with you on it not being very western, but I'm also of the belief that humans can't make a society that fully embraces Christian values. Its kind of against scripture to even think it will ever happen, its stated in the bible itself that shit will get really bad and only be made whole when Christ comes back to reign.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:28:25 2020 No.15435950

>>15435851
Jesus gave instructions on how to attain eternal life. To attain eternal life you must fulfill the father's will, which involves avoiding various worldly temptations -- judging other people, committing violence, failing to forgive the sins of others, greed/avarice, etc.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:30:18 2020 No.15435968

>>15435935
>the Bible never condemns killing or rape or even polyamory or incest, as long as God's people are doing it
Incorrect. Even David was told to fuck off by god when he asked to make him a temple because he shed too much blood. Jesus also said certain things were allowable like divorce because mens hearts were stone back then. To my knowledge god allowed humanity to be a controlled disaster with intent of redemption later through the son and none of that is allowed anymore as the new covenant has been made.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:32:37 2020 No.15435985 >>15435917 >Christianity hinges on the fact god made himself a sacrifice so man wouldn't have to. That doesn't make any sense. God is omnipotent. He could simply ordain that "man doesn't have" to sacrifice to him any more.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:33:38 2020 No.15435993 >>15435985 Not really no, I'm not going to go into it but you know its not that simple and I suggest you read up on the early church fathers writings about that subject.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:36:38 2020 No.15436009

>>15435968
I'm sure you can find examples of God being merciful, because each book was written by a different guy, sometimes centuries later; but in general God isn't the God of all mankind, he's the God of Israel, he fights for Israel, he doesn't care about anybody else, at best, they're tools, at worst they're obstructions to be swept aside with overwhelming force. Jesus, of course, seems like a nice fellow and it's really not possible to hate him, but the problem is that he wasn't around long enough to really write a full moral code, so Christians have to fall back on the Old Testament, which is a very different sort of book.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:39:25 2020 No.15436026

>>15436009
>he doesn't care about anybody else,
Except the rest of civilization afterwards up until today's time who have used his commandments as the bedrock of civilization.

Yeah... he doesn't care about 'anybody else'. Fucking Nietzschtards I swear.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:45:42 2020 No.15436056

>>15435993
It really is that simple, though. The church father invented all these 'rules' about why God had to send his son to be killed in order to 'save' people, but none of it makes any sense. He could have cut the bullshit and simply 'saved' people outright.

Anonymous Sat May 23 21:47:57 2020 No.15436069

>>15436026
Now there's no need for name-calling, least of all German name calling. The commandments of God, as I have said, are not the bedrock of anybody's civilisation, today. They were the bedrock of Ancient Israel's moral code (to an extent, inconvenient passages were sometimes changed) but nowhere else. There are similarities between Mosiac law and modern law, but prohibitions against unlawful killing and the like have been part of every legal code since time began, the Bible did not invent them. Furthermore, the Bible does not even follow these rules consistently, prohibitions about killing, stealing and raping are ignored when it comes to enemies of the Israel. The only parts of the legal code which are unique to the Bible are the parts that few care to respect anymore such as: "Thou shalt not make any graven images" or the bizarre rules about washing crockery.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:48:41 2020 No.15436074 >>15435993 >i d-don't need to prove i'm right you already know i am if this isn't an admission of defeat i don't know what is desu

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:51:01 2020 No.15436084 >>15434702 >has nothing to do with it lmao greek philosophy has everything to do with christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:51:16 2020 No.15436086 >>15436009 >Jesus, of course, seems like a nice fellow and it's really not possible to hate him He was a piece of shit Jew. I absolutely hate him. Both Jesus and Muhammad were disgusting Semitic hypocrites.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:54:24 2020 No.15436098 >>15436084 In much the same way that the music of Queen has everything to do with Weird Al Yankovic. >>15436086 You know he wasn't real, don't you? I was talking about the Hippy Jesus who exists in the popular imagination.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 21:58:28 2020 No.15436125 >>15436084 Time travel isn't real, brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:02:42 2020 No.15436157 >>15436098 >>15436125 platonic thought is a precursor to christianity. if you can't see that then you've read neither the bible nor plato and your opinion is therefore invalid on this topic

Anonymous Sat May 23 22:08:48 2020 No.15436194

>>15436157
The best explanations are the one's that involve clairvoyance. I'd like to try that trick, myself: "Shakespeare wrote 'Hamlet' because he had visions of 'The Lion King'! He wanted to ensure it happened! Hamlet is but one long prelude to 'The Lion King' you fools!"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:09:16 2020 No.15436198 >>15436157 In other words, Greek ethical philosophy predates Christianity. Thanks for playing.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:14:45 2020 No.15436224 >>15436194 >>15436198 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Hellenistic_philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity read up little guys, not gonna argue with the uneducated

Anonymous Sat May 23 22:17:08 2020 No.15436239

>>15436074
Not at all what I said, I just know he's aware there's arguments against that idea but are fairly long and require a shit ton of prefacing that I don't wish to do through text. He's free to consider the argument for why that was needed as bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:31:11 2020 No.15436326 >>15436224 Yes. Christianity is a parody/satire of serious thought, that is what I said.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:33:45 2020 No.15436342 >>15435710 Your reading comprehension is trash, I explicitly said "a number of ways", not "only trade"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:45:32 2020 No.15436412 >>15436342 what are the other ways

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:48:49 2020 No.15436431 >>15436326 if you're >>15436098 then strong influence =/= parody. if we're speaking of plato and early christians then they're both nearly identical in their faith-based moral absolutism. christianity just had better marketing

>>	Anonymous Sat May 23 22:52:21 2020 No.15436457 >>15436431 I call it parody because there is a lot of reinterpretation involved to the point where they're twisting Greek philosophy to fit their beliefs more then twisting their beliefs to fit Greek philosophy.

Anonymous Sun May 24 00:13:50 2020 No.15436879

>>15436412
If you read my first post you would know that literally the first thing I wrote was it ends the prosperity of the person you are killing, which, if you have a conscience, you know is a bad thing.

It's the idea of reciprocity, if you refrain from killing someone, they can refrain from killing you, and it results in the best outcome for both. You don't want to be killed, so don't kill other people.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 00:21:35 2020 No.15436915 >>15436879 >which, if you have a conscience, you know is a bad thing. ???? what does bad mean

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 00:48:53 2020 No.15437047 >>15436915 Bad means the outcome is less desirable. Life is generally preferable to death, and if you disagree, the fact that you haven't killed yourself proves you don't truly believe your own position

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 00:50:24 2020 No.15437058 https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 00:54:38 2020 No.15437087 >>15437047 >Life is generally preferable to death what does that mean >the fact that you haven't killed yourself proves you don't truly believe your own position ???????? i can value my own life and not value someone else's. that's not a contradiction

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 01:26:00 2020 No.15437191 >>15437087 Why would your life have value and not another?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 01:29:27 2020 No.15437203 >>15431642 >BRO JUST BUILD YOUR OWN SET OF RULES AND PREROGATIVES STOP FOLLOWING SHIT LOL LMAO >W-wait you can't beat that horse that's wrong AAAA I'M LITERALLY SHAKING

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 01:30:47 2020 No.15437209 >>15437191 because it's mine duh

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 01:43:49 2020 No.15437262 File: 62 KB, 867x766, 1589325395293.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >mfw support human rights and the inviolable value of human life purely due to rational egoism

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 03:21:18 2020 No.15437592 >>15434513 Nietzsche is fucking stupid

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 03:33:09 2020 No.15437632 >>15434831 Birth of Tragedy

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 03:36:21 2020 No.15437649 >>15433445 >he thinks people read Thus Spoke Zarathustra and understood any of it I'm so tired of hanging out with corpses, Anon.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 04:29:24 2020 No.15437831 >>15434536 Then we don't need law too

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 04:40:37 2020 No.15437863 >>15437831 Did you not read the part about sociopaths and psychopaths?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 04:41:32 2020 No.15437867 Just read icycalm ffs

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 04:43:14 2020 No.15437872 >>15432797 >is the right thing to do Why?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 04:47:02 2020 No.15437891 >>15437191 Can you prove that value exists?

Anonymous Sun May 24 05:06:34 2020 No.15437960

>>15437891
First outline what you would accept as "proof". I am more interested in what structure of morality produces the best results in regards to things that are desirable, namely the maximization of happiness/positive states of being and the minimization of pain/starvation/undesirable states. On that basis alone I can justify treating each individual as valuable

Anonymous Sun May 24 05:20:07 2020 No.15438021

>>15431642
>Why do normies do this, are these people, as Nietzsche would put it, subhuman?
Because they can't figure out the genealogy of morality. To them, morality and religion are completely separate, and they can "feel" morality so they don't question it at all.

>ask a normie why and witness how his brain short circuits before desperately appealing to the UN declaration as some sort of cosmic justification for these beliefs
heh heh
fuck the cult of human life

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 05:26:15 2020 No.15438045 File: 28 KB, 332x499, 41UuFCgpbEL._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15438021 read this before you get too smug

Anonymous Sun May 24 05:34:56 2020 No.15438090

>>15431642
Imagine appealing to an entirely made up entity, with entirely mysterious qualities, which just so happens to supply exactly what you need for your argument. Deriving morals from divinity is beyond retarded and if you do so you immediately out yourself as a brainlet

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 08:00:01 2020 No.15438840 >>15432843 Yes, it does.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 12:20:33 2020 No.15440331 >>15432787 >he didn't start with the greeks

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 12:33:42 2020 No.15440378 Is there any point to arguing with christcucks? They just spin their hamster wheels and only listen selectively; it's like feminism for unattractive men.

Anonymous Sun May 24 15:56:04 2020 No.15441768

>>15440378
They have the power of an unfalsifiable, infinitely malleable premise which has the gravity of being something people made up a long long time ago. The only real progress you can make is pointing out those beliefs put them and their country at a disadvantage on the global scale when it causes them to deny evolution or something similarly fundamental to entire fields of science

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 16:03:46 2020 No.15441825 >>15431642 Christians dont own those values They came about because of european genetic behaviour

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 16:04:17 2020 No.15441829 >>15436239 >require a shit ton of prefacing Sounds like a truckload of bullshit axioms to me.

Anonymous Sun May 24 16:10:37 2020 No.15441870

>>15441768
>The only real progress you can make is pointing out those beliefs put them and their country at a disadvantage on the global scale when it causes them to deny evolution or something similarly fundamental to entire fields of science

Doesn't work. Whenever you point out that the Bible says something can be falsified and has been falsified, they'll say "It's allegorical/metaphorical, the people who wrote the Bible didn't really believe that." Then as soon as you're out of the room they'll just go back to treating it as literal.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 16:12:17 2020 No.15441881 >>15437632 Ok, thanks anon.

Anonymous Sun May 24 16:13:36 2020 No.15441886

America, England, atheist iceland, non Christian japan all have these "values"
Christian countries in africa are shit holes even if they have Christianity

These "values" correlate with genetics, genetic empathy and intelligence, not a certain religion

Anonymous Sun May 24 17:44:16 2020 No.15442639

>>15435882
" Here reigns a great
necessity: drainages and their clean, cleansing waters are needed also for
the spiritual refuse; swift streams of love are needed, and strong,
humble, pure hearts who prepare and sacrifice themselves for such an
office of non-public health care - for it is a sacrifice; a priest is and
remains a human sacrifice .."
TGS 351

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 17:50:47 2020 No.15442703 >>15433483 so? What's your point? Does that prove god? lol >>15438840 sos?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 17:55:23 2020 No.15442742 >>15432787 The Moral Landscape was a massive failure.

Anonymous Sun May 24 20:37:58 2020 No.15443991

>>15434971
>trade, freedom, and cooperation are better strategies then war, tyranny, and domination
Better for what? Achieving more trade, freedom, and cooperation? You still haven't proved that trade, freedom, and cooperation being valued are more than axioms.

Anonymous Sun May 24 20:48:50 2020 No.15444072

>>15435097
>I want(ed) to know specifically, a value I or anyone I know holds, that is Christian
Not that guy but If valuing all people as equal as a result of Imago Dei doesn't count as a value I'm not really sure what your criteria for something to be a value is. Would you give an example of a value you do hold?

Anonymous Sun May 24 20:50:38 2020 No.15444092

>>15434854
Quoting single verses is major cringe since you can justify literally anything by taking a verse out of context. The Bible has a shitload of text in it, there's bound to be some line somewhere in there for anything and everything you wanted to support. At least provide a brief explanation of the context of a quote if all you're going to quote is a single sentence.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 22:53:00 2020 No.15444867 >>15434893 >Subjective experience arises from material components Can't be proven.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 22:57:05 2020 No.15444894 File: 223 KB, 278x500, bugs bunny fat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15435772 >one on the left is literally called Chongus

Anonymous Sun May 24 23:13:07 2020 No.15444995

>>15435037
Nietzsche doesn't think morality needs absolute justification. He criticises that we currently believe our morality has absolute justification. He also shows his disdain for the "belief in unbelief in saint petersburg". Nietzsche's message in Zarathustra is that we need to give man a goal, and not because there's "absolute justification" for it.

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 23:31:02 2020 No.15445112 >>15442742 the Harris book?

>>	Anonymous Sun May 24 23:38:49 2020 No.15445153 >>15434604 My friend, you are not informed enough to participate in this discussion.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:18:04 2020 No.15445347 >>15445153 Whereas you have amazing contributions to add, like not answering the question and instead just insulting the poster

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:19:39 2020 No.15445353 >>15444867 Nothing can be "proven" yet all possible evidence points to that being the case and all hypothesized alternatives have zero evidence

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:24:50 2020 No.15445378 >>15445353 >but... uhh... u can't prove evidence either

Anonymous Mon May 25 00:32:41 2020 No.15445412

>>15445347
1. Others have already answered the question.
2. The question itself is a reflection of the poster's stupidity. If he cannot think of even a single moral system that does not appeal to utility, whether it's that of Kant, Plato, Aristotle, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or any of the variety of moral systems that vastly outnumber Benthamism and its bastard children, on this forum of all the forums in the world, then one can only assume that he is either completely brain-dead or trolling.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:38:37 2020 No.15445435 >>15445412 The irony is that, in the process of name dropping everyone and everything you could think of, you actually originally misunderstood what that he was saying.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:40:38 2020 No.15445444 >>15445435 No. Where is the utility in "God said so?"

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 00:57:35 2020 No.15445537 >>15445444 You believe it is better to adhere to God's commandment than not to, if you thought God did not have your best interest at heart, would you still obey him?

Anonymous Mon May 25 01:02:57 2020 No.15445565

>>15445537
>if you thought God did not have your best interest at heart, would you still obey him?
If I legitimately believed that the alternative was hellfire, yes I would. If I believed that hellfire was the result of disobedience to god, there would be nothing I wouldn't do in order to obey god.

I don't actually believe that of course, because I'm not a christian. But that is a necessary part of christianity.

Anonymous Mon May 25 01:06:29 2020 No.15445582

>>15445537
>You believe it is better to adhere to God's commandment than not to
Yes, because God's word is the Truth and the Law. He has legislated what is good and what is bad, and adhering to his Law is defined as good.
>if you thought God did not have your best interest at heart, would you still obey him?
1. No one has ever argued that we should obey God's laws because he has our best interests at heart. We should obey him because he is our Lord.
2. A central tenet of the monotheistic religions is the ineffability of God and his intentions. We have no idea what his intentions are. We accept His commands because they are commands, not requests or advice. He is our Lord, and it is our duty to follow him.
A more extreme version of this is found in Islām, wherein in it held that Man is but the servant of God. By obeying Him and His commands, we are literally obeying our master.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:09:48 2020 No.15445600 >>15441886 >some races have a superior genotypic predisposition should the other subhumans be given any quarter?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:09:57 2020 No.15445601 >>15445582 What's god commanding you to do right now?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:10:57 2020 No.15445606 >>15445601 Call you a fucking retard for asking such an irrelevant question.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:15:50 2020 No.15445627 >>15445582 Why fulfill duty? As the other person who replied stated, it is to avoid hellfire/God's wrath

Anonymous Mon May 25 01:21:17 2020 No.15445647

>>15445627
>As the other person who replied stated, it is to avoid hellfire/God's wrath
No. Hell does not exist in pre-medieval Judaism, Islam does not contain such stories of eternal separation from God, and even in Christianity, Hell is not actually a place of fire and brimstone. The reason to obey God is that God is our master and has enjoined us to obey him. The consequences of not obeying him are completely irrelevant. You will nowhere find a theological tract in which obedience to the moral law is defended primarily in terms of utility.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:21:55 2020 No.15445650 >>15432797 Tell that to the chinks driving over each other in the streets and carving out each other's organs

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:22:15 2020 No.15445653 >>15445606 That God of yours is an absolute troglodyte, tell him to mind his language, their could be ladies present.

Anonymous Mon May 25 01:23:12 2020 No.15445658

>>15445647
>The reason to obey God is that God is our master and has enjoined us to obey him.
I appreciate your honesty. Few christians are willing to plainly state their axioms and follow them to their logical conclusion. I think you are wrong but I respect you.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:23:33 2020 No.15445661 File: 41 KB, 640x640, 1588955367611.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15445653 BLUH BLUH BLOO, "THEIR COULD BE LADIES PRESENT"

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:24:45 2020 No.15445664 >>15445658 >Few christians are willing to plainly state their axioms and follow them to their logical conclusion. Like a wise man once said, God is dead, and even those who claim he's not think and behave as if he is.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:25:44 2020 No.15445671 >>15445661 Who's saying that? Is it you or it the God?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:27:23 2020 No.15445673 File: 5 KB, 222x227, 1589417747200.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15445671 It's me.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:29:17 2020 No.15445680 >>15445673 based

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:29:23 2020 No.15445681 >>15445673 Well that's fair enough, if it was God I was going to go down to the cathedral and give his son a good kicking.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:44:57 2020 No.15445725 >>15445647 Why respect his authority? If you are being honest, it is because when you were being indoctrinated as a child you would have received punishment for deviating from your duty

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 01:50:45 2020 No.15445745 >>15445725 Because I believe in his authority. Why? Faith. How? I was taught by my mother, just like you were taught by your mother not to chew with your mouth open.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 25 05:16:03 2020 No.15446632 https://discord.gg/eHPyAc3

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