/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15431154]

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[Anonymous No.15431173]

>>15431154

Why are conservatives so obsessed with people's rooms?

[Anonymous No.15431175]

Really don't get the hate for Jordan Peterson. It seems pathological, like a 'Ha! daddy got into a coma, that means he was wrong all along and I don't have to follow his advice!' Literally tell me what's wrong with any of this:
>Be responsible
>Be mature
>Clean your room and take care of yourself
>Be confident
>Don't lie
>Be humble
>Set goals for yourself and work towards them
>Don't procrastinate or spend the majority of your time being unproductive
>etc.
Nothing he says, from what I've seen, is any bad.

[Anonymous No.15431176]

>>15431173
Because it's where people have sex and they don't

[Anonymous No.15431179]

Who says I can't? I just choose not to.

[Anonymous No.15431192]

>>15431175
People are insecure and increasingly intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them. So when the hive-mind says 'Jordan Peterson Bad!' they just jump right in and call him horrible, racist, stupid, wrong, and evil.

(they're only right about a few of those things fwiw).

[Anonymous No.15431201]

>>15431154
Quadriplegics BTFO

[Anonymous No.15431205]

>>15431175
That stuff is fine, it's whenever he tries to talk about literally anything else (especially history) that he turns into a retard.

[Anonymous No.15431218]

>>15431205
Maps of Meaning is a respected work of Jungian psychology. You can disagree, but it's ridiculous to say that it's retarded. Besides, people here attack him for his 'self-help' not for his psychology.

[Anonymous No.15431225]

>>15431176

I never had sex on my room and it is not like I care about any other person room. Unless I'm going to live in the same room.

>>15431175

He is ok, but it is just that this room part is so recurrent. And I've meet messy persons who I would honestly listen to their advice.

[Anonymous No.15431235]

>>15431175
>Literally tell me what's wrong with any of this:
Nothing? The issue is not "be good" self help crap.

[Anonymous No.15431251]

>>15431235

Yes, this too. That "just do the fucking thing approach" coming from a psychologist is a bit strange, but he does tell people how to get there. I think that writing thing he preaches isn't that bad.

[Anonymous No.15431257]

>Every morning in basic SEAL training, my instructors, who at the time were all Vietnam veterans, would show up in my barracks room and the first thing they would inspect was your bed. If you did it right, the corners would be square, the covers pulled tight, the pillow centered just under the headboard and the extra blanket folded neatly at the foot of the rack — that's Navy talk for bed.
>It was a simple task — mundane at best. But every morning we were required to make our bed to perfection. It seemed a little ridiculous at the time, particularly in light of the fact that were aspiring to be real warriors, tough battle-hardened SEALs, but the wisdom of this simple act has been proven to me many times over.
>If you make your bed every morning you will have accomplished the first task of the day. It will give you a small sense of pride, and it will encourage you to do another task and another and another. By the end of the day, that one task completed will have turned into many tasks completed. Making your bed will also reinforce the fact that little things in life matter. If you can't do the little things right, you will never do the big things right.
>And, if by chance you have a miserable day, you will come home to a bed that is made — that you made — and a made bed gives you encouragement that tomorrow will be better.
>If you want to change the world, start off by making your bed.

[Anonymous No.15431258]

>>15431175
He admonishes people to accept the judgement of their peers and take their place in society. At least half of the clowns on here are into some form of extremist political thought precisely to avoid doing that. It's obvious why they would hate him, he is an advocate of 'the system'.

[Anonymous No.15431287]

>>15431258
Well pointed out. All i've met who hate him are snowflakes or pawns of some retarded ideology.

[Anonymous No.15431288]

>>15431257

This, feels like they are just indoctrinated to do that. Why make your bed instead of taking some extra effort to make a better breakfast? Isn't being nourished better than bedroom aesthetics?

[Anonymous No.15431312]

>>15431154

[Anonymous No.15431362]

>>15431175
I don't think the hate is directed toward the advice.
It probably has more to do with his public persona.
>Nothing he says, from what I've seen, is any bad.
It's not, essentially. The problem with giving such advice is that you are bound to miss a point here and there and turn yourself into a preacher.
>Be responsible
This kind of presupposes that I'm not. Why? That's just one example. Why the hell does he not let us figure it out ourselves? Why does he preach? I have serious doubts about anyone who's so directive and prescriptive when it comes to how others should live their lives.

[Anonymous No.15431393]

>>15431173
because we literally live in a society

[Anonymous No.15431400]

>>15431362
>>15431362
>Why the hell does he not let us figure it out ourselves? Why does he preach?
His book and talks are directed towards people that need and are asking for that kind of help, retard.

[Anonymous No.15431411]

>>15431288
Making your bed is more boring and requires more discipline, also because you are supoosed to do it first thing when you wake up
Discipline is the most important thing in a n army

[Anonymous No.15431416]

>>15431218
>respected work of Jungian psychology

[Anonymous No.15431422]

>>15431400
That's not clear at all. While there is a certain segment of his viewers that benefits from this prescriptive approach, he applies the same approach when analysing philosophical and psychological ideas. He's an expert on life. Except he isn't.

[Anonymous No.15431429]

>>15431411
Different anon.
I've been making my bed every morning since I was a child. I'm not stupid enough to be proud of it though..

[Anonymous No.15431437]

>>15431154
>"If you can't even clean your own room, who the hell are you to give advice to the world?"
I disagree. I've gotten good advice from homeless men. It doesn't work that way, Jordon ol' boy.

[Anonymous No.15431492]

>>15431154
there are millions of reasons why i could not want to clean up my room. What does it have to do with me giving advice.
implying i want to give advice. i advise no one. even in the position of a therapist, which is my job, i don't give advice to my patients. i make them reflect on their actions, on their feelings, and occasionally do some evidence-based education on facts and events.
The wrong part about what he says is that there is a judging attitude and a overly confident part-taking on issues that are, arguably, a matter of opinion. This attitude is what brings him discredit. If he were more humble in his ways, he'd be much more well-liked.

[Anonymous No.15431515]

>>15431492
Sounds about right.
I wouldn't want someone like him as a therapist.
What kind of therapy do you do?

[Anonymous No.15431526]

>>15431175
I like the part where he talks about chaos symbols and alpha lobsters

[Anonymous No.15431619]

>>15431515
therapy works for its secondary or aspecific features. most of the theory behind the different schools is imperfect. regardless, what epidemiological data says is that the school of therapy doesn't matter that much. what makes the true difference is the therapist's attitude. for more on the topic, or general culture, i advise everyone to read archaeology of the mind by panksepp for a neuroscience-based take on emotions systems and their problems. rather than clinical insight pre-science approaches, he has good research to build on future and new psychiatry/psychotherapy.

and then there's another issue, which is the fact that most psychologists approach the individual as a mind-body, rather than a man-world phenomenological relationship. in other words the core issues are not identified in the relationship of man-world but rather on man's dealing with his own feelings emotions. and this is bad because maybe the reason some of us feel bad has to do with an aberrant society not built for our mind to adapt to. most psychs, and i myself live this issue, only treat patients as the ones that need adapting, gotta "deal with your own feelings" and "adapt to the system". but oh well now i typed long enough and i don't know the solution myself.

[Anonymous No.15431650]

>>15431179
>>15431225
>>15431251
>>15431429
>>15431437
>>15431492
You are all hopeless.

It's not about literally making your bed. It's about being consistent with your habits, as it is more important than the big thing you are probably imagining to do.

You all do your bed each morning, clean up your rooms regualrly, exercise etc? Fine, stop doing it and like like a NEET if it's uninportant.
Habits, good AND bad ones, are what makes up the persons we are and if you refuse to believe that, just what advice would you give to a NEET?
If you could not see above the do your bed example, unironically consider to stop reading at all since you are clearly dim and unable of objective thought.

[Anonymous No.15431673]

>>15431650
>It's about being consistent with your habits
We are all consistent with some of our habits. Bravo.
I'm waiting for more over-generalisation from personal experience. Let's see if it comes in your next paragraph.

> Fine, stop doing it and like like a NEET if it's uninportant.
Okay, here we're approaching it.
>just what advice would you give to a NEET?
Wait, who said I'm up for giving advice?
>unironically consider to stop reading at all since you are clearly dim and unable of objective thought
Unimpressive, I may add. I'm likely way more educated and intelligent than you. So what?

[Anonymous No.15431684]

>>15431154
You can still deal with the social along side with individual concerns. There's no magic bridge that gets unlocked if your individual habits are in top form. The inter-subjective angle is a stronger one.

[Anonymous No.15431703]

>>15431650
My room is a barrel and your society looks like shit m8, what are you gonna do about it?

[Anonymous No.15431744]

>>15431205
This. Have you ever heard him talk about overpopulation? He goes from outright denying it to subtly pathologizing those who are concerned about it.

[Anonymous No.15431755]

>>15431257
It's because the military takes in manchildren.

[Anonymous No.15431772]

>>15431650
I have a lot of hope lately, actually, and have been putting a lot of effort and consistent energy into what that hope is directed towards. It's just that none of that hope is directed towards cleaning my room, the cleanliness of my room being almost wholly unrelated to what I'm working towards. I'm so consistent in my messiness that I find it worthwhile to hire a housecleaner. I understand what points he's trying to make, I just don't put much stock in them. What a world you must live in if you think he's speaking to some great cosmic truth and that everyone who disagrees with it must misunderstand it.

[Anonymous No.15431842]

Peterson is fine as a psychologist/self-help guru but people take him as an overall “intellectual” and overvalue his takes on subjects he has no place talking out.

I’ve listened to him talk on podcasts about Nazism and the guy was just way out of his depth. Anyone who has studied Nazism just at the undergraduate level would immediately realize the guy has no idea what he’s talking about

[Anonymous No.15431886]

>>15431154
If he's so right then why do I want to fuck his daughter so much?

[Anonymous No.15431900]

>>15431744
Imagine the seething on Elon Musk's and other Silicon Valley nerds' faces if we trained dogs to drive cars real well.

[Anonymous No.15431908]

>>15431201
kek'd

[Anonymous No.15431954]

>>15431257
>>15431288
>>15431411
As someone who's actually been in the military I can tell you its horseshit.

The REAL reason the army does things like this during basic is to stamp your mind into compliance. They make you do these tiny, inane things with such sheer force to get rid of the natural tendency for people to rebel against an abusive sounding leader making you do stupid things. You would not believe how much of the army is dedicated to wasting time. Its the primary output of the army. If soldiers didn't have this tendency it would take fifteen minutes for a rebellion to start.

There's only ONE sort of people who actually espouses this "military training is a profound lesson" bullshit, and that's very successful officers. Because for them, all that led into getting paid six figures and retiring into cushy directorships and public speaking, where they float around in their shiny uniforms feeling important telling crowds about how the military changed them. However the average enlisted soldier leaves with lifelong knee injuries, PTSD and basically a zero chance at any meaningful career (that is if you don't end up unemployed and homeless).

[Anonymous No.15432021]

>>15431154
>you can't change the world unless your personal life is in order!
What a shitty thesis. No one in history who made any significant change had their "rooms clean". Look up Gandhi, MLK, Malcolm X, all the US presidents, or any major historical figure for that matter and do you know what you'll find? They all had dirty room; they all had fucked up personal lives, and it didn't make a single difference when it came time for them to pursue major societal/political change. Who the fuck has time to "master themselves" before trying to seek political change? No one. Cleaning your room as JP means it is a lifelong endeavor, and people don't have time to sit around all day doing self improvement exercises. The world has real problems and many of them need action right here and now. This faggot is such a status quo, neoliberal cocksucker. Fucking drug addict faggot. Fix your drug addiction and your whore daughter before ever uttering a single word of advice. Cunt.

[Anonymous No.15432060]

>>15431257
>feeling this proud about making your bed
Do welfare queens really?

[Anonymous No.15432073]

Idk with normal people taking a slobs advice is probably a bad idea, but you see some academics rooms and theyre fucking pigsties

[Anonymous No.15432087]

>>15431218
>is a respected work
bro what kind of midwit statement is that
if it's good, say it's good, don't say it's "respected"

[Anonymous No.15432144]

>>15432021
He's a self-help guru just shilling his lame takes.

[Anonymous No.15432168]

>>15432087
>respected is midwit bro, not like shallow value judgements like good or bad!

[Anonymous No.15432179]

>>15432168
bro I do not respect your post right now

[Anonymous No.15432237]

>>15431173
Because people are butthurt the prophet is a messy-room having, threesome-engaging in awesome chilled guy

[Anonymous No.15432251]

>>15432179
It was the best of posts, it was the worst of posts...

[Anonymous No.15432623]

>>15431175

[Anonymous No.15432646]

>>15431175
You omitted the part where he uses his fame to broadcast right-wing talking points and conspiracy theories with Dennis Prager, like Global Warming denialism. But yeah, why would anyone hate him am I right?!

[Anonymous No.15432920]

>>15432021
Cringe esl poster, take your meds

[Anonymous No.15432929]

>>15431175

because he's not a humble man, he is an angry drug addict who makes big bucks telling social retards to wash their dick

he tries his hardest to defend a religion that he clearly has lost faith in, and he has a terrible grasp of historical events and postmodern philosophy. he has a silly voice and writes in a way that is intended to mystify. what a cretin

[Anonymous No.15432952]

What Peterson was trying to say it's just to sort yourself out. When people found light in his words they started backfiring at him because the started sorting their self out and started attacking him on small details that wouldn't matter at the end of the day.

If you needed peterson to tell you all this though you were a hard case anyway.

[Anonymous No.15432968]

>>15431154
>Sort yourself out before you try to improve the world
>Tries to improve the world when he's a psychotic mess
Going by his own advice, I shouldn't listen to him

[Anonymous No.15432992]

>>15432952
>If you needed peterson to tell you all this though you were a hard case anyway.

this 100%. to learn anything from JBP you have to be pretty hopelessly backward and fucked up.

[Anonymous No.15433015]

>>15431218
>respected work
>Jungian psychology
Pick one

[Anonymous No.15433017]

>>15431175

when he blamed apple cider on his benzo withdrawal is when i lost faith in the guy. zizek just lowered him into the casket

[Anonymous No.15433030]

>>15433017
NAME THEM JORDAN
>C-Car go v-v-v-v-vvvvrrrrrrooooooooommmmmm

[Anonymous No.15433038]

>>15431175
>Do benzos
Highly recommend anon

[Anonymous No.15433045]

>>15431416
This

[Anonymous No.15433050]

>>15432021
Anon you just don't understand his message!!! Okay?!! You simply have to be near-overdosed with benzos to see the light within his answers, or anything else for that matter. You are just interpreting him the way anyone would, which is totally not cool.

[Anonymous No.15433058]

>>15433017
Zizek went really easy on him too, how did he manage to fuck up so badly?

[Anonymous No.15433065]

>>15431650
>It's about consistently taking your benzos!!!
1 gorillion keks

[Anonymous No.15433066]

>>15431154
Exactly, Jordan. Who the hell are you?

[Anonymous No.15433078]

>>15433058
An established scholar vs some guy who "went" to harvard bro he was an RA there bro!
Yeah I wonder how that happened

[Anonymous No.15433083]

>>15433058

he only knew "of" the marxist literature that he was referencing, he didn't actually interact with it. a fatal mistake if you're at his level of influence

[Anonymous No.15433090]

>>15433017
>when he blamed apple cider on his benzo withdrawa

Dude if a dude talks 90 hours a week in social media and youtube of course he will bullshit once in a while. How do you lose faith over a sentence? Also joe rogan makes you want to larp when you are on his podcast i think its the enviroment. Peterson was ok and i felt bad for the guy i've through severe mental illness and it's hell on earth, hope he is better.

[Anonymous No.15433094]

>>15431154
Well, you know, I’m just not seeing the correlation between having a clean bedroom and being competent enough to share knowledge or wisdom with others.

This statement of pop psychology speaks more to his own neuroticism than it does about the relative untidiness of anyone’s private bedroom.

[Anonymous No.15433140]

>>15433090

if it's obvious to his fans that his touring schedule and his personal life was his downfall, it should have been obvious to him as well. he is dishonest. he tells you to 'clean your room' and submit yourself to false hierarchies as if they actually mean something, as if it is the 'right' thing to do. yet he was deliberately lying about his addiction to cope, as he took patreon money from his fans. that money was spent on touring, partying, and drugs. you can only abuse adderall and benzos for so long. then as his wife is dying of cancer, and he's only just waking up out of being brain dead in russia, he gives his opinion that all countries should open back up and start digging more graves for virus deaths. he is a self help salesman pretending to be a philosopher, suckering in weak men with no direction in life

[Anonymous No.15433153]

>>15433078
It's a shame, if you read about his time at Harvard it's like he could have been a lot like a mirror of Zizek but publishing fewer books.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1995/4/26/jordan-peterson-pharvard-students-may-know/

[Anonymous No.15433160]

>>15432646
Indeed why?
I listened to that talk of his about global warming and he raised many sensible and valid points.

[Anonymous No.15433272]

>>15431673
>Wait, who said I'm up for giving advice?
How retarded can you be? What do you expect to give someone who is buying a book called 12 rules for life?
>>15431772
>. What a world you must live in if you think he's speaking to some great cosmic truth and that everyone who disagrees with it must misunderstand it.
It's really not like that and it's not what he has been trying to do. He is specifically talking to people who are depressed and have some sort of major difficulty in their lives and telling them to start small from heir haibts.
>>15432021
>Look up Gandhi, MLK, Malcolm X, all the US presidents, or any major historical figure for that matter
Because these major historical figures would totally buy a book telling them to fix their lifes.

[Anonymous No.15433273]

>>15433090
>>15433140

and my previous post doesn't get into his peddling of psychoactive drugs that are poorly understood. the most famous psychologist who constantly recommended solutions from big pharma as a way to improve yourself didn't know about benzo withdrawal? really? his fans are the type of people in the same breath that will admonish you for drinking too much or smoking weed, but will tell you to hop on an ssri if you feel sad for a few years. it is pathetic

[Anonymous No.15433307]

>>15431416
>>15433045
100 years and still unrefuted

[Anonymous No.15433320]

>>15431154
I would take this advice, but I've seen this guy's room. Hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.15433353]

>>15433307
When you make unfalsifiable claims it's pretty hard to refute other than to point out it's baseless. Jung has the same tendency as JBP, be purposely vague but sprinkle in a bunch of intuitive things that make people buy it. Perhaps unrelated, but that is legitimately how cult leaders form a following

[Anonymous No.15433384]

>>15431175
It's a smokescreen.
Yeah those are his stated points if you glance at the back of his book but he was perfectly willing to prescribe the opposite of those things to the tradrightists who paid his bills. For that special class of citizen all Peterson would hand out was reassurance that the world would/could soon be corrected.

>Any social issue
Looks like you didn't clean your room bucko. Why are you criticizing the world before making your bed huh
>Right wing social issue
Well obviously we shouldn't allow [atraditional lifestyle choice]. They owe us all. Our collective well being is contingent on people not [atraditional lifestyle choice] and they are obligated to make that sacrifice for us. Thank you for your money

He did this all the time, I don't know if he was consciously aware of it but he did very little to conceal it anywhere that wasn't the book
The enforced monogamy comment and his various explanations about it (which were only slightly less openly hypocritical) were probably the rawest distillation of what I'm talking about

[Anonymous No.15434136]

>>15431175
no need to defend him he will never be your father anon

[Anonymous No.15434449]

>>15432623
Requiescat in pace sweet prince

[Anonymous No.15434622]

>>15432623
Powerful

[Anonymous No.15434706]

>>15431154
>if you have a personality flaw you aren't allowed to participate in public dialogues
>public dialogues should be monopolized by people who have concealed all flaws
>Also I have major personality flaws that I'm going to conceal until i implode spectacularly
brilliant

[Anonymous No.15434777]

>>15431437

>anecdote
>exception disproves the rule

[Anonymous No.15434792]

>>15431176

Fuck off libertarian scumbag

[Anonymous No.15434819]

>>15431154
what if i'm advicing the world to NOT clean their rooms?

[Anonymous No.15434864]

>>15432646

This post stinks of projection

[Anonymous No.15435251]

>>15431175
those are just surface level advices that were well-known way before this hack got his attention (though the clean your room thing became a trademark meme). It's not bad advice, but it's pretty basic and the only reason why people love him is because he ties these things to politics, which is basically the biggest reason why people hate this guy. His political (and philosophical) takes are so fucking retard. In terms of large scale issues like climate change, literally his only advice is to clean your room and change yourself first instead of going after corporations who have been abusing resources for decades. And I don't think I need to elaborate on him not knowing shit about postmodernism and marxism. It's the same bullshit rethoric recycled from other neo-cons but tied to his social-darwinistic narrative that he loves to push. Also he uses "the left" - whatever the hell that actually means - as a scapegoat for most people's problems, especially for those of young men.

[Anonymous No.15435833]

>if you can't even raise your daughter to not be a slut, who the hell are you to give advice to anything ne at all?
It really works.

[Anonymous No.15435981]

>>15431175
https://youtu.be/UGDVTUB_GrY

[Anonymous No.15436102]

>>15432646
reddit

[Anonymous No.15436128]

>>15435833
someone needs to ask him this at a live q&a.

(if he ever gets enough brain cells spinning to do one ever again, that is.)

[Anonymous No.15436132]

>>15431154
If you can't even function without SSRIs, who the hell are you to give advice to the world?

[Anonymous No.15436358]

I actually prefer to keep my house very clean and ordered and let my bedroom get moderate clutter. Helps having a contained mess

[Anonymous No.15436366]

>>15431173

>conservative

Nice dead binary you got there.

[Anonymous No.15436373]

>>15431154
I just watched that documentary about him called The Rise of Jordan Peterson and all I can say is that learning about him and his movement restored my faith in humanity.

[Anonymous No.15436394]

>>15435251

>it's pretty basic

The majority of Millennials, especially men, don't even have the wherewithal to put toilet paper back onto the hanger. We are in an era where basic is advanced.

[Anonymous No.15436547]

>>15435981
Thanks. That was an interesting video. He summarised it quite well.

[Anonymous No.15436666]

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPof3taFRto
cant believe im just now seeing this

[Anonymous No.15436761]

>>15433017
>>15433090
People are retarded and lose it over little things they disagree with.
I don't even like Peterson but if you have any sort of food problems shit can mess you up. In this case he may have some sort of sensitivity, perhaps nutmeg which can give you an insane high/bad trip. I've had similar experiences where you get a sense of impending doom that can last for days or even weeks. You feel like you are dying, even entering another world. When you try to sleep it feels like you are dying, and if you sleep at all you will wake up panicking, sweating, and it's like you taste blood and heavy metals.
That would fuck up a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.15436800]

It's great that Jung, who was thought of as a pseud who didn't give good enough reasons for his arguments even among the pseud field of psycho-analysis, is now one of the main figures in conservatism due to this guy.

[Anonymous No.15436813]

>>15431173
Cleanliness not rooms and probably because they feel dirty

[Anonymous No.15436825]

People really spend the whole day talking about room cleanliness. You guys are f hopeless. You all are definitely going straight to hell for this.

[Anonymous No.15437961]

>>15431173
Peterson is a marxist. He built his career around it. He only went /pol/tard recently and the whole of this reeks of sham. He literally spent a good part of his life working for the UN stumping for marxist causes.

[Anonymous No.15437986]

>>15436800
Lol? Are you retarded, no one gives a shit about Jung, especially not conservatives. Get out more idiot.

[Anonymous No.15437993]

>>15436800
Jung is a pseud who purposely cloaks his theories in mysticism because they have no basis

[Anonymous No.15438343]

>>15431744
>Have you ever heard him talk about overpopulation?
Ok yeah, this is pretty retarded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfZZLSWbY3g

He also said some retarded stuff when criticizing ethno-nationalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyoTGmhczcY


The key is to not be a fanboy or a hater and just take what's good. I think he does have some good takes too.

[Anonymous No.15438345]

>>15433017
You know that consuming alcohol on benzos is pretty fucking bad, right?

[Anonymous No.15438384]

>>15431173
why are lefties so obsessed with purposefully misunderstanding things for your own benefit?

[Anonymous No.15438428]

Fuck outta the way, kino coming through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXYuqrO8LLo

[Anonymous No.15438445]

>>15431175
I don't hate him, it's more that I hate the fact that just like simping we've allowed a commodification of the father figure because parents today don't teach anything at all.