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15429106 No.15429106[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>> No.15429117

bruhh, look at this dood

>> No.15429119

Why believe in Christianity

>> No.15429121

Obey GOD.

>> No.15429132

>>15429106
I love you Christian bros. Gaythiests are CRINGE.

>> No.15429140

>>15429132
> I love you Christian bros
are you buddhist or something?

>> No.15429145

>>15429106
Why can't all of the denominations of Christianity get along with eachother when they agree 99.99% of the time?

>> No.15429149

I wish I could believe
I just can't. But I want to
Do you think Christians, Jews and muslims worship the same god?

>> No.15429152

>>15429119
Why believe in God or why believe in Christianity?

I'll assume you're asking the latter. Our metaphysical "proofs" of the existence of God, especially the cosmological, necessitate monotheism. From there you're left, more or less, with the big three and deism. It certainly requires faith in divine revelation to take the big three over deism. But once you have decided on the big three, and this is no small issue, Christianity is by far the most compelling.

>> No.15429161

>>15429145
We do disagree on a lot of things. But some church denominations have styles that fit different personality types, too; for example one person may gravitate towards a Pentecostal church while someone else may join a Baptist church

>> No.15429171

>>15429152
It's compelling because it has an overarching narrative to its story.

>> No.15429176

>sees pic
>"Ugh another Ted Kaczynski thread"

>> No.15429182

>>15429145
Are you a Christian? Not trying to patronize you, but I doubt you'd say this if you were.

As you get deeper into Christianity it becomes very clear that denominations don't agree with each other a majority of the time. You see that people shop for denominations like they shop for clothes, and they pick the one that best suits what they already wanted. If you want God to serve you and not vice versa, you go to Joel Osteen and his ilk. If you want no one to have authority over you, you go *generally* to protestantism. If you see value in authority and hierarchy, you go to Catholicism. If you see value in some aspects of religion, but feel even more strongly about the progressive agenda, then you join a pro-LGBT etc. church.

I hope you see my point. And I say this with humility as a protestant that will likely convert to Catholicism. I think the best way to seek the truth is to *shop* for a denomination by making God's pleasure the end goal, and not your own. If he is an all-powerful all-loving creator, He deserves no less.

>> No.15429226

>>15429149
I've been there friend. Spent most my life as an atheist, then agnostic. I'll answer your question, then I have a question for you.

Not the same God. I've read all three holy books. I'll give you a meme example. The English translation of the New Testament describes God as many things, but only identifies Him with one thing. "God *is* love" (1 John 4:8). Allah is never described as loving. He seeks different things in a different way.

I find it plausible to say that Jews worship the same God as Christians, they just know Him less because they stopped listening part way through His revelation of His character ... but even then, our God is triune and that has tremendous implications that I won't dive into unless you ask. From the inside, it's apparent that this is not true. When I was on the outside, it seemed more tenable.

Now to my question for you. I'm a firm believer that everyone either wants God to exist or they do not and they rationalize whether or not he exists based on this desire. So, why do you want Him to exist?

>> No.15429240

>>15429226
>Allah is never described as loving
we're off to a great start, here's a question for you, is it a christians thing to misrepresent your opponents views and build straw men? I notice it happen in christian/buddhist discussions as well.

>> No.15429251

>>15429171
In part, but that sells it short.

As an example of something I'd say is more compelling than that: Christianity rings of truth in that it is not intuitive to our nature. If the afterlife exists, we *need* to earn it. We feel it with every fiber of our being. Islam gives you that avenue to earn it. It allows you to feed that craving of earning. As does Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, many sects of Judaism, and many distortions of Christianity. Christianity rings of truth in that it says "You are broken, but desire is for perfection. You cannot achieve this perfection, or earn your way to a perfect God. But, I can do it for you. All you need to do, and all you can do, is accept my offer."

Depending on your familiarity with the gospel, this may not stand out to you. But just think about how counter that runs to the narrative of other religions and how counter it runs to your desire to earn.

>> No.15429275

>>15429240
I don't believe I am, though I admit that I'm subject to biases. To be clear, I'm not implying that Allah is all fire and brimstone throughout the Quran. I'm merely saying that the holy books describe FUNDAMENTALLY different gods. This is not intended as a demonization of Allah so much as a response to that claim.

I wish I knew buddhism better. Can you give me an example of how this happens in such discussions?

>> No.15429277

>>15429145
Some of the problems we are faced with today as we look at denominationalism and its more recent history:

1. Denominations are based on disagreements over the interpretation of Scripture. An example would be the meaning and purpose of baptism. Is baptism a requirement for salvation or is it symbolic of the salvation process? There are denominations on both sides of this issue. In fact, baptism – its meaning, its mode, who can receive it, etc. – has been a central issue in the separation of churches and forming of new denominations.

2. Disagreements over the interpretation of Scripture are taken personally and become points of contention. This leads to arguments which can and have done much to destroy the witness of the church.

3. The church should be able to resolve its differences inside the body, but once again, history tells us that this doesn’t happen. Today the media uses our differences against us to demonstrate that we are not unified in thought or purpose.

4. Denominations are used by man out of self-interest. There are denominations today that are in a state of self-destruction as they are being led into apostasy by those who are promoting their personal agendas.

5. The value of unity is found in the ability to pool our gifts and resources to promote the Kingdom to a lost world. This runs contrary to divisions caused by denominationalism.

What is a believer to do? Should we ignore denominations? Should we just not go to church and worship on our own at home? The answer to both questions is no. What we should be seeking is a body of believers where the Gospel of Christ is preached, where you as an individual can have a personal relationship with the Lord, where you can join in biblical ministries that are spreading the Gospel and glorifying God. Church is important, and all believers need to belong to a body that fits the above criteria. We need relationships that can only be found in the body of believers, we need the support that only the church can offer, and we need to serve God in community as well as individually. Pick a church on the basis of its relationship to Christ and how well it is serving the community. Pick a church where the pastor is preaching the Gospel without fear and is encouraged to do so. As believers, there are certain basic doctrines that we must believe, but beyond that there is latitude on how we can serve and worship; it is this latitude that is the only good reason for denominations. This is diversity and not disunity. The first allows us to be individuals in Christ; the latter divides and destroys.

>> No.15429283

Any good books on prayer/faith during a crisis?

>> No.15429300

Could you be friends with a Theistic Satanist?

>> No.15429301

>>15429106
Should women be pastors and elders?

>> No.15429303

>>15429283
Bible books? I'd point to James. It's written to Jewish Christians living under harsh persecution and encouraging them and instructing them on how to remain steadfast through hardship.

Outside the Bible? I've always found this book touching. Lewis wrote it after his wife died of terminal illness. He also wrote the book "Problem of Pain" which covers the issue in a much more abstract way, but I believe this one is much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Grief_Observed

>> No.15429328

>>15429226
Thank you for the response, anon.
I grew up in an atheist household, in a mostly atheist country. But I was always curious about Christianity, and recently started reading the Bible again.
Like a lot of people, I think I'm mainly searching for some sort of purpose, and answers to big questions. Life as a non-believer feels very meaningless. There are moments where I'm convinced, but doubt seeps back eventually. Maybe finding a good church could help.

>> No.15429331

>>15429300
Jesus was friends with all types.
>>15429301
Probably not. I know this view runs counter to our proclivity these days to not limit women in any way that men are not themselves limited ... but there are some Bible verses that are pretty difficult to explain your way out of to make that case.
>but when NT messages on women's role in the church are specific to the context in which they wrote
In 1 Timothy 2 Paul says that women should not teach and reasons back to creation and the fall as to the reason. In other words, his reasoning was not bound by his epoch.

I know, it's tough to grapple with. I think part of the consolation is that Paul reasons this partly from the fall. As in, this is not the intention, it is an adaptation to the fall of man. Galatians 3:28 indicates that we'll do away with these differences in authority when we get to the other side. And in any real sense, eternal roles are far more important thatn ~80 year roles.

>> No.15429340

>>15429149
The Muslim and Christian views of God have some similarities. Christians believe in one eternal God Who created the universe, and Muslims apply these attributes to Allah. Both view God as all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-present.

A vital difference between the Islamic and Christian views of God is the biblical concept of the Trinity. In the Bible, God has revealed Himself as one God in three Persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. While each Person of the Trinity is fully God, God is not three gods but three in one.

God’s Son came in the form of man, a truth called the incarnation (Luke 1:30-35; John 1:14; Colossians 2:9; 1 John 4:1-3). The Lord Jesus Christ conquered the penalty and power of sin by dying on the cross (Romans 6:23). After rising from the dead, Jesus went back to heaven to be with His Father and sent the Holy Spirit to believers (Acts 1:8-11). One day, Christ will return to judge and rule (Acts 10:42, 43). Those who have trusted in the Lord Jesus will live with Him, but those who refuse to follow Him must be separated in hell from the holy God.

“The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him” (John 3:35-36). Either Jesus bears the wrath of God for your sin on the cross or you bear the wrath of God for your sin in hell (1 Peter 2:24).

The Trinity is essential to the Christian faith. Without the Trinity, there would be no incarnation of God’s Son in the Person of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ, there would be no salvation from sin. Without salvation, sin would condemn all to an eternal hell.

So, do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? A better question is, “Do Christians and Muslims both have a correct understanding of who God is?” To this question, the answer is definitely no. Because of crucial differences between the Christian and Muslim concepts of God, the two faiths cannot both be true. The biblical God alone addresses and solves the problem of sin by giving His Son.

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son” (John 3:16-18).

>> No.15429341

>>15429328
I've been there too. Can I ask you another question ... are there any reasons why you might want God to not exist?

>> No.15429347

>>15429106
do you masturbate?

>> No.15429365

>>15429347
You're probably joking, but here goes ... I did for the first ~6 months of being a Christian. Not because I thought it was ok, but because it was very, very hard for me to quit. I praise God that I have found freedom from that. The further from pornography and masturbation I get, the more clear it is that it is freedom.

>> No.15429450

>>15429106
Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?

>> No.15429455

The protestants have fallen into ruin (perhaps they were doomed from the start), the catholics seem to be desperate to imitate the protestants’ descent, and the orthodox seem to be an ethnic club (and may also be falling into ruin I don’t really know). Where should the seeker turn?

>> No.15429480

>>15429455
First turn to God's divine revelation to learn the truth from Him directly. Next turn to a church which you think prioritizes God over man's agenda. As a protestant, I'd say the Catholic church does this best. If I knew where you were I may be able to recommend a protty church. We also have access to some excellent preachers online .. I often listen to this pastor from California
https://www.cclc.org/bible-studies?sapurl=LytmMTFhL2xiL2xpLys3ZmU0MmZiP2JyYW5kaW5nPXRydWUmZW1iZWQ9dHJ1ZQ==

>> No.15429529

>>15429328
It's me OP again. I'm going to bed since it's quite late here. Maybe this thread will still be up in the morning and we can continue a bit. For now, I'm praying for you and know that if you
- come to believe that you are broken, and
- accept that there's nothing you can do to fix that, but
- trust that God in His grace gave His son to provide a way for you to be made perfect in Him AND spend eternity with Him, then the rest will come naturally.

The problem is getting to that point. If you're still struggling with belief, Feser's "5 Proofs of the Existence of God" and "New Superstition" should suffice to convince you that Christianity is rational.

If the problem is flipping your perspective such your end goal of seeking God is to glorify your loving creator, not to improve your life (though finding meaning and seeing an improvement in your life will be a by-product of seeking to bring Him glory), I'd say that's a much more difficult process.

Finding a church wouldn't just help, I'd say it's necessary. The church is one of God's great gifts to us, and if you find one with a good pastor you can seek his mentorship.

If you do read this, I'd love to hear what you have read in the Bible and what particular things you read that you found valuable enough to keep you reading.

>> No.15429534

>>15429450
>Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?
The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

>> No.15429560

>>15429149
>Do you think Christians, Jews and muslims worship the same god?
Yes, but the Muslims' and the Jews' understanding of Him is rather defective. The defect is particularly egregious in the Jews' case.

>> No.15429572

>>15429106
Should the Church be involved in politics?

>> No.15429574

>>15429301
Agree with >>15429331 that the answer is "probably not" given the multiple Scriptural injunctions against it. Even on top of that, some churches have tried it and have had extremely poor results.