/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15389676]

How to write good?

>practice a lot
Almost every professional writer does so, and very few of them are good

>read a lot
See above

[Anonymous No.15389687]

Very true

[Anonymous No.15389758]

>>15389676
pro writer here. and yes, i am a very good writer.
first, know the rules. punctuation, grammar, spelling. without these you are not going to get anywhere. sure there are a few people like e e cummings etc who can get away with breaking a rule or two but you are not them.
next, know the structures. for whatever you want to write there will be certain templates that are used again and again. an example is the "hero's journey". get used to writing using one of the templates before you start trying to make your own.
next, find a style. there are many supposed rules to writing. don't use adverbs, etc etc. but know that these are actually only guidelines. if you want to put adverbs in every sentence, sure go ahead and see what it looks like. it will likely be a mess. but one learns from one's mistakes.
pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.15389773]

>>15389758
What do you write

[Anonymous No.15389783]

>>15389676
Learn the rules and craft, develop taste and have a high IQ. But why write good? There's no money in that. The stuff that sells reads as if written by teenagers so really I have no idea why some writers are successful and others are not, obviously talent isn't a variable. I'm not a writer so don't read that as jealousy, just bewilderment. Maybe it has something to do with idiots being better able to connect with the thought of other idiots.

[Anonymous No.15389803]

>>15389676
You need to have the fundamentals of the language mastered but also high intelligence, a vivid imagination, and drive for curiosity. According to DFW, "a writer is someone who is interested in everything."
Writing that stands out is not just because of the language, it is because a beautiful thought or perception is presented handsomely.

[Anonymous No.15389812]

>>15389803
>"a writer is someone who is interested in everything''
Absolute pseud quote. Why do you even quote this hack

[Anonymous No.15389824]

>>15389676
Just playing devil’s advocate, but if every professional writer reads/writes a lot, yet few of them are good, doesn’t that suggest that this isn’t what you need to be a good writer?

[Anonymous No.15389833]

>>15389812
Not that guy but it reminds me of a story about Nabokov also, who when asked if a student could be a good writer, he pointed to a tree and asked him what type of tree it was. And when he didn’t know, he said “you’ll never be a good writer”.
Paraphrased, but seemingly in line with DFW here. An avid interest in everything, not necessarily a liking of everything though, gives you your world, your subjects and your direction far more easily than a narrow minded person who has only focused on their little slither of life.

[Anonymous No.15389834]

have talent

[Anonymous No.15389839]

>>15389824
No it just means they aren't good

[Anonymous No.15389848]

>>15389839
Yet they read/write a lot? Well then there is another factor.

[Anonymous No.15389877]

>>15389783
>and have a high IQ
>>15389803
>also high intelligence
lol no

>>15389824
but all good writers read and write a lot too

>>15389833
wow nabokov sounds like an idiot

[Anonymous No.15389934]

>>15389877
>but all good writers read and write a lot too
Which just means it's a necessary but not sufficient condition for good writing.

[Anonymous No.15390003]

>>15389758
what do you have against adverbs?

[Anonymous No.15390051]

>>15389758
No that's now how you become a good writer.

>I'm a good writer
Doubt

>>15389676
Talent. Either you are, or you aren't. You don't have to read or know anything to be a good writer, you just need to have the spark

[Anonymous No.15390063]

>>15389758
>don't use adverbs
You're writing nonsensically. I rather see people write adverbially by getting bogged down lengthily into pain-drying-on-wall-boringly-and-repetively over-descriptioning

[Anonymous No.15390065]

>>15390063
>by
>*Than
The abject misery of writing phonally

[Anonymous No.15390073]

>>15389803
>Writing that stands out is not just because of the language, it is because a beautiful thought or perception is presented handsomely.
Bingo

[Anonymous No.15390078]

>>15389833
Hardly. A good writer would invent his own description of the tree

[Anonymous No.15390084]

>>15389676
Write a lot and throw out whatever isn’t good.

[Anonymous No.15390086]

>>15389676
learn another language

[Anonymous No.15390088]

*How to write well

[Anonymous No.15390089]

>>15389676

You don't have to be a good writer to be a successful one.

Other than that, it's different for everybody. Reading and writing a lot helps. You keep screwing around with it until you find your particular way of doing things. (Warning, there is no guarantee that you actually HAVE your own way of doing things, this is why writers are like a very tiny percentage of the population)

[Anonymous No.15390094]

>>15389758
No posting porn on this board.

[Anonymous No.15390171]

>>15390063
>You're writing nonsensically. I rather see people write adverbially by getting bogged down lengthily into pain-drying-on-wall-boringly-and-repetively over-descriptioning
Correct. Verbs and adverbs is what turns that catalogue of nouns and adjectives into an actualy story. While nouns and adjectives therefore are quite replacable, the author must weigh each choice of verbs and adverbs carefully, becuase it is these that sets the tone and pace of his story

[Anonymous No.15390251]

>>15390003
>>15390063
jesus. is this some sort of pavlovian conditioning? i was clearly quoting that as an example of a frequently stated rule of writing, not stating it as a rule in itself. please learn how to read.

>>15390051
>No that's now how you become a good writer.
those are steps on a journey. i don't have the time or inclination to teach a whole writing course on a cartoon porn board.

>>I'm a good writer
>Doubt
i'm also not posting my cv here. i apply different standards to my professional work and my shitposting.

[Anonymous No.15390512]

>>15389676
Is this what a trad wife looks like?

[Anonymous No.15391001]

>>15390094
>choglid
>porn
I'm going to kick your face in you dumb cunt of a woman.

[Anonymous No.15391006]

>>15389676
Depends of what you’re shooting for anon. You’re gonna get that advice every time because it is the only advice applicable in every situation. also there’s a good chance your usage of “good” deals in shit that has nothing to do with writing

[Anonymous No.15391326]

>>15389676
where's his toes?

[Anonymous No.15391360]

>>15391326
lost in a tangle with a wuzel weasel

[Anonymous No.15391466]

>>15389758
Give us an example of your writing. From the way you talk about yourself I suspect it will be shit.

[Anonymous No.15391586]

>>15390051
Talent only gets you so far. Hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard

[Anonymous No.15391603]

>>15391466
you wouldn't understand it, anon.

[Anonymous No.15391609]

>>15391001
does talking like this make you feel like a man anon?

[Anonymous No.15391724]

>>15391603
So it's shit. Thanks for letting us know. Pussy.

[Anonymous No.15391750]

>>15391724
do you think that kind of attitude is going to make it more likely that i'm going to do what you say? idiot.
also it's true, you probably wouldn't understand it. most of the work i do is highly specialised and without context it would be meaningless to you.

[Anonymous No.15391767]

>>15389676
Be easily inspired but firm with your belief. Most work, even the bad shit, has some merit

[Anonymous No.15391774]

>>15389676
>tfw no latina gf to dote over me

[Anonymous No.15391788]

why does everyone on /lit/ want to be a writer? is it sort of like where people that are really really into movies want to be actors? cross-sected with vanity. its sort of depressing. nobody here will ever be a good writer. or rather the one successful writer to come from here is irrelevant, since if you are a writer and on /lit/ you are almost guaranteed to be a failure.

[Anonymous No.15391806]

>>15390251
>i was clearly quoting that as an example of a frequently stated rule of writing, not stating it as a rule in itself.
there was nothing "clear" about that at all.
You are terrible at conveying information through writing.

[Anonymous No.15391811]

>>15391724
Fuck you I'm not a pussy
https://pastebin.com/ZkQCg19C

[Anonymous No.15391815]

>>15391806
oh no, my career is in ruins. how will i ever recover? oh wait, you're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.15391848]

>>15391788
It's better this way. If /lit/ were /tv/ every thread would be about Nabakov's mentions of feet.

[Anonymous No.15391850]

>>15391788
>since if you are a writer and on /lit/ you are almost guaranteed to be a failure.
what do you think it means to be "on /lit/"? this is just an anonymous cartoon porn forum. i'm basically here procrastinating.
there are at least a couple of pro writers who come here. writing comes in many forms.

[Anonymous No.15391869]

>>15391850
"on /lit/": a person that putz's around on a mongolian basket weaving forum instead of living life. me. you too.

[Anonymous No.15391872]

>>15389676
She should tickle him haha

[Anonymous No.15391887]

you prepare yourself, so you can meet inspiration halfway, when it comes, if it comes.

[Anonymous No.15391906]

>>15389676
Follow T.S Elliot's advice: There's no method, you just have to be very intelligent".

The good news is intelligence can be cultivated to an extent.

[Anonymous No.15391935]

>>15391811
>I could feel the sunshine spilling onto my bed. I sighed and rolled over. I wasn’t particularly eager to begin the day.

Jesus... kys fucking loser. Absolute dogshit.

[Anonymous No.15392051]

>>15391811
Lol this sucks dude

[Anonymous No.15392573]

>>15392051
Nah bro dat shit highly specialised y'all smoothies just in't get it

[Anonymous No.15392579]

>>15389676
tfw no qt arab gf to rub my hairy foot

[Anonymous No.15392589]

The traditional advice is: Read more. Write more.
>Read more.
What this means is expose your subconscious to good work, interesting work, work outside your comfort zone. A lawyer is going to write differently before and after law school simply from the large swaths of legal casebooks he reads. A good writer will read a vast amount of books outside of his target genre to expose themselves to conventions, tropes, linguistics, phrases, character dispositions, and other things. To develop the [[Mind's Eye]]
>Write more.
What this means is fundamentally understand your own writing process and adopt those tactics others use that are beneficial to your product. Some people have complex setups to avoid distraction and force themselves to write. If this is a problem for you, then look that information up. Next is the process of writing. Another big issue many people have is that they edit as they go. This distracts from the actual creative process and flow. Figure out how to edit last. Next, with those edits, actually examine what you believe you are doing wrong. Find books or information on writing conventions, self grade and self test your own editing abilities, both in technical editing and in the content of the message. There are many ways to write "The sun rose in the east" but only YOU know how you want the reader to understand how the sun rose and what descriptors about the sun you want them to imagine. Next is to go through a volume of work. Finish things. Writing is about starting a project and finishing it. Even if it lays there dead on arrival. Complete the draft. Edit it. Revise it. Finish something.

[Anonymous No.15392718]

>>15390251
>i'm also not posting my cv here
That's fine, but don't make unsubstantiated claims then

[Anonymous No.15392729]

>>15391750
>most of the work i do is highly specialised and without context
Then you are not a good writer. Good writers can explain anything

[Anonymous No.15392761]

>>15391811
>Writes in first person
And it's crap

[Anonymous No.15392962]

>>15392718
jesus fuck how did you people get to be so painfully autistic?

>>15392729
ok anon you're quite right. but unfortunately that's not my job. so how much do you actually know about railways? it's kind of a precondition that you have at least an NVQ level 3 in rail engineering track maintenance. preferably one of the telecommunications certs as well (or at least a working knowledge of GSM-R) and if you have any exposure to ERTMS so much the better. i'm sure for a clever person like you it shouldn't take more than a few months. then you'll need at least 3-4 years of practical experience. you go away and get those then i'll show you some of the stuff i've been working on recently. it's good stuff anon, a real page turner.

[Anonymous No.15393004]

https://allpoetry.com/Liberalintent

Spent my high school years to 28~ish not writing. I've always had the 'lol I'll write harry potter and get rich' dream and it haunts me to this day.

Eventually I started journaling everyday. I have about 4 years of typed journals, and I moved to handwritten and podcasts as well because I read this improves your brain, and I use mine with the words.

Journaling is vital because it helps you rediscover your connection to the words. The reason most are mediocre when it comes to writing is they have no individual connection to the words. They didn't have the page time voicing their own emotion freely, trying to express it to themselves, so when it comes to speaking to others they aren't going to be as good as those who journal. Benjamin Franklin taught himself how to write and speak through copying text, converting the text to poetry, then converting it back to prose a few days later.

I have little respect for poetry as it doesn't sell like harry potter and I love money because I am jewish. However, after over a year of writing a poem a day I began to see the merit in the freewriting aspect. It's not so much the poetry medium as the freewriting, getting away from the rules implicit in language. Rhetoric.

I didn't think I read a book about rhetoric, but I ended up doing so anyways.
The Brilliance Breakthrough by Eugene Schwartz

"Editing is a debate."

After reading that book and doing the exercises, my stories started making more sense. I also gained more courage and began writing a story a day.

During all this I was also writing tons on royalroadlegends and still do. Most of it is trash, some more embarrassing than others, most of it will never, and should never, be read.

Hemingway said that only one out of ten of his writing was any good. I think that's a major part of 'becoming a writer.' Lots of page time putting down words that look awful to you. I think this is avoidable, but only if you make a decision to not beat yourself up over poor writing. I doubt most who choose to write will do this.

I'm currently going through a book by this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q07y1JFeEE

It's been difficult for me to understand story and how to structure it. What Truby brings to the table for me is structure— I hate outlining, and I didn't know what to shoot for in scene before reading his book.

In my experience with myself, the greed I've had as a writer is infinite. I dream up a lot of success far quicker than I can bring it into being. This is why I didn't write until 28, my imagination was satisfying, writing was painful.

These days, writing is less painful. I hate the idea of calling myself good in any respect, as the more I've grown as a writer the more flaws I've been able to see in my work. I've also been able to appreciate the depths of others writing more, upping the perception of difficulty as I grow.

Like a mountain, it's more about how you climb than reaching the top.

[Anonymous No.15393591]

>>15389676
Have talent.

[Anonymous No.15393647]

>>15392962
So you write track-laying manuals, but you consider yourself the next Lovecraft? Ok this is off the rails

>>15393004
Every sentence you write starts with "I" and you use reddit spacing. You have any idea how annoying to read that is?

[Anonymous No.15393675]

>>15389676
>>practice a lot
>Almost every professional writer does so
Most professional writers I hear say they write maybe 3-10 pages a day. If you wrote 20 pages a day you would quickly eclipse them and still have time for half a job. Writers are fuckin lazy

[Anonymous No.15393807]

>>15393675
20 pages a day (assuming 250 words/page on average) is 5000 words per day. The average person types 40 words/minute which means this would take the writer 125 minutes or about 2 hours.

Surprisingly doable but I imagine writing at the speed would come back to bite you in editing. Then again, maybe the editing time remains constant regardless, in which case the draft time is the bottleneck. Worth experimenting with at any rate.

I know that a lot of self-publishers have this level of output, but their work reflects their speed in a lot of ways. Seems like good and bad authors are delineated chiefly by their editorial judgement and endurance.

While on the topic, any good books on editing? (I already know about the Self-Editing one)

[Anonymous No.15393836]

>>15390512
Yes

[Anonymous No.15393871]

you have to have posession of expression and imagination of visualisation of patterns

[Anonymous No.15393981]

>>15389848
It depends on what they read mostly, which will influence how they write. If they read a lot of Shakespeare, and write a lot in a way inspired by Shakespeare, the results can't possibly be too bad. Also you need to have a certain level of perception to identify what makes a piece of literature good, you need a creative disposition, be willing to experiment, learn and try new things, and finally, and most importantly, have something to say, which can either be an entire philosophy, critique of society or even just pointing out the simple beauties of the world, the magnitude of it doesn't really matter.

So I guess in the end, more than reading and writing and even intelligence and natural talent it's the personality the more important aspect, because it will tie all these things together.

[Anonymous No.15394216]

>>15391811
Zzzzz, even I can do better than that

>Like a blackened corpse, the night sky hung above her. The stars reaching for her, like a thousand yellowish worms piercing through a discoloured hide. If she stretched out her hand a little further, the star-worms would feast on her soft skin as well. Yes, they certainly would. Basking in the glorious decay of the universe above, she let go of her inhibitions and gazed further than she had ever dared to do before. As if dry crumbling skin, the blackness above fell away before her very eyes and revealed the endless abyss beyond. Lifeless worlds and dying stars writhed and flickered in agony as she beheld the cosmic dance macabre. Then they came. Carried gently upon black winds; across the chasms of primordial darkness between stars; adrift and unheard for untold aeons, and now, they had finally arrived. When the voices of the universe entered her ears, they filled them with deafening cries of inexorable agony. The death cry of an entire universe only grew in intensity, as more and more voices were added in an unending crescendo of undiluted despair. Curious about how the unwashed masses would receive the cosmic gift, she looked down on the street below, finding nothing but weakness and abject displays of ingratitude. The filthy rabble lay sprawled along the road, vainly clasping their ears, as if the symphony of suffering could be silenced by mortal hands. Soon they would be tearing out their eardrums, and then they would hear nothing but wails. Glorious.

[Anonymous No.15394248]

>>15393675
>>15393807
Are you retarded? Writing speed has nothing to do with the pace of writing, since when writing a serious piece you re-evaluate and re-arrange every sentence

[Anonymous No.15394552]

>>15391935
>>15392051
>>15392761
>>15394216
You never let me down /lit/.

[Anonymous No.15394577]

have a mental illness and get lucky

[Anonymous No.15394602]

>>15393836
nice stock photo you dumb bitch

[Anonymous No.15394734]

>>15394248
That's one workflow. Another is to get a draft down as quickly as possible and then edit it extensively through multiple drafts. The question is whether the first method is slower/faster than the second and whether it has any bearing on the final quality of the work. Considering that great writers have used both methods, both are probably equally viable.

[Anonymous No.15394808]

>>15394552
This time they're right. His prose is stilted relying more on stunted metaphors that are highly conditional in their structure in order to advance an idea. It doesn't feel truthful, a very pseud-take I know but stay with me here. His writing is not in accordance with his ideas, they're too opulent in their design so they have a hard time pining towards something material, the writing is too vague to do the reader any good so any invitation to engage is outright rejected. In a way it reminds me of David Copperfield, especially Mr Micawber. Despite all his verbiage he manages to say nothing of any particular relevance. The sequence of his sentences incurs displeasure in the reader because we know that he labours to make them sound rich and high-flown so that attention is diverted from the unfortunate position he finds himself in. The anon who posted that excerpt is smarter than him since he doesn't pepper his sentences with too many difficult words but he needs to work on his metaphors and try to sterilize the havoc they cause on his writing.

[Anonymous No.15394820]

write for yourself and simultaneously with your audience in mind. Recognize what it is that resonates with both of you. For personal writing you don't have to worry about good or bad, though you may. Ultimately the most personal work may be your best work.

[Anonymous No.15394896]

>>15393591

You don't need any level of talent to make it in writing, or anything in general.

I mean, if you want to be the next Faulkner, yeah, but you can still be a successful writer without it. Most of the best selling books out there are poorly to mediocrely written. Most journalist and bloggers and reviewers and editors and and columnists all that are pretty bad at it as well.

What do all working writers have in common though? They all worked their asses off at it. Even the talented people have to buckle down and work like a maniac to make it, and if they don't then some bad to mediocre writer who actually did is going to overtake them every single time.

They always say hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. It's very very true, and happens all the time.

[Anonymous No.15394907]

Is 22/23 too late to start getting good at writing? I've been a STEM cuck all my life and don't like doing STEM stuff for fun

[Anonymous No.15394936]

>>15394216
Purple as fuck but I can take it in small doses

[Anonymous No.15394962]

>>15394907
based on this post, it'd be a wasted effort. start a garden or buy a bicycle if you want a hobby.

[Anonymous No.15394975]

>>15394962
>based on this post
???

[Anonymous No.15395069]

>>15394975
go ahead and prove me wrong.
anyone who tells you there is an age restriction on becoming great is an idiot

[Anonymous No.15395510]

>>15394936
Hence why it's a short story

[Anonymous No.15395738]

>>15390078
this! That story is so often misinterpreted as simply being about knowing what species it is, yes important, but how can you identify the species of the Tree unless you're observant enough to it's particulars, it's details - what distinguishes it from other tress.
>>15389833
Nabokov was tutored as a boy by a painter who was a distant cousin of Peter Ustinov (who would later hang out with Nabokov in Switzerland).
This painter taught Nabokov how to recall gestures, slats of light dancing across floors, the arrangements of flower petals. He taught Nabokov how to recall details.
Nabokov insisted his literature students do the reverse when they read novels. He insisted his students know the specific arrangement of the position of doors and furniture and rooms in the Sarnsa Apartment.
As the man himself said of Mansfield Park
>"We must see things and hear things, we must visualize the rooms, the clothes , the manners of an author's people," The color of Fanny Price's eyes in 'Mansfield Park' and the furnishing of her cold little room are important."
When Nabokov pointed to that tree, he was testing the student's power's of observation and description more than anything. The student's shrug and admission of defeat was evidence that his eyes weren't open enough.

[Anonymous No.15395765]

>>15389676
Holy... I want more

[Anonymous No.15395900]

jesus is this thread still going
>>15393647
>So you write track-laying manuals
no. people already know how to lay railway tracks. there is already documentation about it. i am sure there is someone who maintains that documentation, but it's not in my department.
>but you consider yourself the next Lovecraft?
er, no. mobile telecoms is not horror fiction, although there is a certain amount of dread in reading ETSI documentation.

[Anonymous No.15396171]

>>15393004
when i saw this post from a distance i was sure i would hate it. but on reading it, i fully agree

[Anonymous No.15396183]

>>15394248
Am I retarded? Absolutely. Does "speed" have nothing to do with "pace?" No. I am afraid you are also retarded, like me.

[Anonymous No.15396227]

>>15389676
Big demon,
Sucking on my semen.

[Anonymous No.15396278]

The keys to writing well are understanding rhythm, aesthetics, wit, psychology, and being sincere. Most novice writers undermine the necessities of rhythm and sincerity and end up fumbling their work as a result. It's important that one gets a decent understanding of poetry and how to write it decently themselves before attempting to become an adequate prose stylist, not to mention a builder of atmosphere and innovator of abstraction. A common mistake that budding writers make is recognizing their capacity for style but not understanding that the only worthwhile style comes from the soul and cannot be forged by any means. For example, if you like Joyce or Wilde's style, you will need to either be lucky enough to have had a similar soul to theirs or content yourself to be drastically different from their aesthetics if you want to produce anything of real aesthetic value. Style cannot be imitated successfully, style is whatever beauty lives in your soul and how well you can communicate it.

[Anonymous No.15396348]

>>15396278
People often do learn by imitation, though.

[Anonymous No.15396413]

>>15391788
>he doesn't want to participate in his favorite art form
What are you, some kind of fucking faggot consoomer?

[Anonymous No.15396476]

>>15394907
Writing is one of the few areas where age is no barrier. You can keep writing right up until the day you die, assuming your mind is in good condition.

[Anonymous No.15396492]

>>15396476
>assuming your mind is in good condition.
...and even if it isn't, sometimes. terry pratchett continued writing even after his alzheimers diagnosis.

[Anonymous No.15396685]

>>15393836
This image will haunt me till i die

[Anonymous No.15396776]

>>15393836
based kitschoid

[Anonymous No.15397052]

>>15389676
Another pro writer here. Cookie-posting faggot isn't far off the mark.

Learning the fundamentals of writing is something most people overlook. I don't wanna see your sloppy shit coming across my desk. I'll just chuck it.

Beyond that, you're going to have to use your instincts and develop your own voice. It's up to as to which route you go. Some sell out right away. Others try their best to write fancy literary shit.

The best piece of advice I can give you: mimic the greats, but only until you master the mechanics. From there, you absolutely must create your own style.

Best of luck, boys.

[Anonymous No.15397097]

>>15389758
>I know the rules of grammar.

Are you kidding me. The worst advice anyone could ever possibly give you is to abide by the "standards" of grammar.

"Pleasurable" writing has two parts to it:
1. The grammar, it has to be understood by the reader. So, yes.
2. But also a destruction of language—a complete invention of destroying the customs in order to create something new and fresh, without eliminating grammatical clarity.

It's all about modernity: destroy to create/create to destroy. This is what calls for enjoyable reading—it's what all of your favorite writers did. By repeating the same customs over and over and circle-jerking around grammar, you will get nowhere but text books and instruction manuals.

Adverbs I do have a slight distaste with—I think in a way they are lazy solutions, but adverbs are also amazing devices and nearly impossible to avoid completely unless you are deliberately avoiding adverbs—which I don't recommend because it's not necessary to. How the hell can the use of an adverb determine the quality of the sentence? It can't.

Put your money where you mouth is. I hope this is copypasta.

[Anonymous No.15397106]

>>15397052
>Pro-writer.
Please explain to me what that means.
Good advice. But I reproach the term "pro-writer."
I reproach anyone who calls themselves a "writer." It's disgusting. Stay in your lane.

[Anonymous No.15397112]

"I'm one of the few people who's written more books than he's read."

[Anonymous No.15397132]

>>15389803
>>15390086
>>15391586
>>15392589
>>15393004
>>15394820
>>15396278
The only good advice in this thread. The only sincere people in this thread. Take notes from these posts.

[Anonymous No.15397134]

>>15397097
I reject the second premise of your argument. To think that all writing has to necessarily destroy (why, for example, would you expect a commercial Humour work to destroy anything linguistically?) is, in its own sense, the same kind of dogma you seemingly disapprove of. If we're talking about the highest form of literature, then it makes a bit more sense -- but your argument, though you haven't exactly provided one, fails to convince. Are you writing that kind of work? I highly doubt it, but I'd love to read it if you are.
Also, I mentioned nothing of adverbs. Use them; don't use them -- whatever you fancy. If your instincts are good, you'll be able to tell what's right.

>>15397106
The term means that I've been in multiple professional publications, have been paid for my work, have taught others how to write, and have written books people actually buy.

[Anonymous No.15397138]

>>15397112
The most /lit/ thing to appear on television. Fucking all of you are Garth Marenghi

[Anonymous No.15397149]

>>15397134
I understand where I may have been miscommunicated. I don't mean literally destroy, but reinvent and produce new conventions and present new solutions to "the workings of language." Move your predicates around, use nouns and verbs, even ignore capitalization (in the case of Donald Barthelme, I mean. A man who brought in great examples of "destroying" these so conventions of grammar in literature.) Or even experiment with form—as Thomas Bernhard was extraordinary with his entire books contained within one single paragraph and his constant repetition to keep the reader locked into place. Also experimenting with discourse and challenging modest conventions—Allan Ginsberg really rustled some people the wrong way. This is what I mean by destroying to create, in the sense of modernity.

If you want to exchange work and give feedback I'd love to—genuinely. It gives me great joy to talk with others about their work.
Otherwise I could post it here, but I'm on the fence about that.

[Anonymous No.15397197]

>>15397149
I see where you're coming from, because I used to think the same way, always prizing innovation over all else. It's an interesting way to approach writing, but it's been taken as gospel by contemporary writers, which I find, at best, tedious. If you want to know what I'm talking about, go ahead and swing by your local B&N, or Chapters, or wherever once things open up again. Go to the literary magazine section. Pick a random volume up off the shelf and give it a read. You'll see nothing but "destroyers," all trying their damndest to write something "new." The legacy of people like (((Ginsberg))) is the current crop of directionless fuckheads.

I don't mind exchanging work with people. Problem is, I write a great deal of commercial fiction these days. It's likely not what you're looking for.

[Anonymous No.15397228]

>>15397197
I believe it's impossible in these contemporary times to create something "new." I don't think people should focus on creating something new, you're right—I see it a lot in lit mags, and a lot of those who submit to the lit mag I help run are just those types. It's kind of surprising what you see accepted, on the basis that it isn't anything new. Kind of puts a damper on it all.

Commercial fiction or not, all writing deserves a chance and a look by others in pursuit to help out. The hope is to point the writer in the right direction in hopes to accomplish what they are aiming for.

vj.kitchinger07 at gmail dot com

[Anonymous No.15397239]

>>15397138
>Fucking all of you are Garth Marenghi
Fucking spot on.

[Anonymous No.15397246]

>>15389758
LARPing faggot.

[Anonymous No.15397258]

>>15389783
it's essentially a lottery. any sort of stratospheric success in any creative medium is almost completely arbitrary. it's a combination of networking and having the right material at the right time. it's impossible to predict or capture on purpose. trying to do so will just drive you insane and drive all the soul out of your creative process.

write whatever the fuck you want. be as offensive as possible. chances are no one will ever care anyway and that's fucking awesome. you're totally free. and if the stars align and you do win the lottery, fucking great.

[Anonymous No.15397263]

>>15397228
>>15397197

mind if i get in on that? I'm a writer, too.

[Anonymous No.15397265]

>>15397263
Of course. Just specify which anon you are for clarify. I was the one who posted the e-mail

It'd be really nice to make a feedback group

[Anonymous No.15397269]

>>15397132
nice summation

[Anonymous No.15397285]

>>15397197
>>15397263
I do hope you do get in touch

[Anonymous No.15397358]

>>15397097
you utter nincompoop

[Anonymous No.15397502]

>>15397097
Observe, finally some good advice from a true professional

[Anonymous No.15397573]

>>15397228

I may not be able to show you any of the things I'm working on (due to professional constraints), but I'll definitely be able to show you things of mine that have already been published. I'll try to reach out in the next couple of days.
>>15397263

You're welcome, too, bucko.

[Anonymous No.15399220]

>writing as a "skill"

imagine still believing this in 2020 (admittedly I used to be such a faggot, sad so many zoomers especially fall for this trap)

broke: thinking writing is some kind of trade that you can just work at via learning gay shit like literary devices, practicing, and working hard

woke: realizing good writing comes from the soul and is just people liking the cut of your jib by being an intelligent and thoughtful person, not any practical bullshit you exercised. writing is inextricable from the zeitgeist and thus has little to do with the writer himself, so while great prose stylists might be notable for their wordsmith autism, that will always play second fiddle to the cultural relevance meme. also you will literally never make it if you don't know PMC white bitches and jews in new york.

maybe if you got lucky in nerd circles you could write genre shit but what a sad and horrible lottery to win (more like lose). thankfully the "serious" novel is dying, like it should.