/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15380528]

Was he an anti-natalist ?

[Anonymous No.15380551]

Yes, but he didn't embarass himself like Benatar. He mainly wrote as a form of self-therapy.

[Anonymous No.15380552]

>>15380551
what proves ?

[Anonymous No.15380627]

>>15380552
Benatar sets up this scholarly thesis by which he tries to prove with rational arguments and conclusive evidence that procreation is immoral and that everyone without exception suffers from the consequences of being born. While ultimately sharing these sentiments, Cioran very much scoffed at argumentation and rationalization (any type of rigid thought and philosophical system whose only goal, according to him, is to subjugate one's spirit) which he deemed below him which is why he specialized in aphorisms and greatly resembled Nietzsche in that regard. I would consider Cioran a radical skeptic above all.

[Anonymous No.15380632]

>>15380551
So he was just as retarded and whiny, just in a slightly different way, gotcha.

[Anonymous No.15380671]

>>15380632
Imagine not accepting an idea, a thought.

[Anonymous No.15381213]

>>15380528

Wikipedia says so, so it must be true!

More seriously: yes, he was. For Cioran, the great catastrophe is not death or even the suffering of life, but birth itself, having been thrust (heh) into the world to begin with. He elaborates on this somewhat in Fall into Time, which I want to re-read at some point.

[Anonymous No.15382590]

>>15380627
This, Benatar really fucks up with trying to prove his theory almost mathematically, his whole shit falls down fast when he says Suffering = bad = negative, not suffering = good = positive, good and bad are made up, they dont exist in the real world.

[Anonymous No.15382611]

>>15380528
In the Trouble of being Born he says
>to commit every crime, but that of being a father
maybe these are not his exact words, but that's how I remember

[Anonymous No.15382628]

>>15380528

Why are anti-natalists so deeply moved by moral/ethical abstractions?

Human behavior is mainly dictated by feelings of power, pleasure, fear, awe, and pain. Morality can be motivated by awe, but in general it plays scarcely in role in characterizing human drives.

Morality is just a pragmatic, limiting mode of social behavior that only exists because the individual behaves in consideration of social limits. i.e. a "manner" in the language of Hobbes

[Anonymous No.15382685]

>>15380528

I wonder what his private relationship with Simone Boue was like. They must have enjoyed each other's company, in some sense. Just now, for the very first time, I've looked up pictures of her. Big mid-century hair. Smiling in some photos. A typical, older woman, by appearances. How is it that she took up with him?

Suddenly I realize that the nature of their relationship is a serious question for the humanities/history, and that there may exist articles on the subject. I read some anecdote that she just waded into the sea after he died but I don't know about that.

[Anonymous No.15382737]

>>15382685
It is important to remember that Cioran is not as one-dimensional as his works make him seem sometimes. He was a popular guest at dinner parties, a great conversationist and had a decent number of friends and friendly acquaintances in Paris. He openly admitted that he wrote mostly when he was feeling down, to wrestle with his negative thoughts. That does not mean that he didn't believe what he wrote, but it represents only one aspect of his life.

[Anonymous No.15382753]

>>15382737
I forgot to add that there is an interview with Simone Boue, in French, somewhere on the internet. As far as I remember, she seemed completely normal and down to earth. Maybe she was the much-needed counterpart to the neurotic Cioran.

[Anonymous No.15382782]

>>15382737

Thoughtful post, it's still disappointing that "our boy" was a disgusting normie in this way (ever having a gf at all), but this is how people come down to us through posterity pre-internet, unfortunately. Still, Cioran's nicest remarks have to do with the unthinking quiet, the dumb-ness of the world (in a positive sense): the world passes by, it isn't zen, there's no point, there might even be a nice thing once in a while, unusually. But happily it's pointless. A personal favorite: "my paraphrase): "I love those nations of astronomers: Pre-Columbians, Chaldeans who, for love of the sky, went bankrupt in history." The point being that they just enjoyed life as well as they could. It's cringe to invoke, but the "tears in rain" quote from Blade Runner does suggest a similar notion of the ephemeral.

I wonder how they fucked in that little hovel of his (which does not appear to be the decent bed-couch thing of the photo I picked), if they fucked there. He was even an alpha or ascended Gamma in the sense that he successfully escaped work whereas she had some sort of gig.

[Anonymous No.15382796]

>>15382753

This is legible in the following way: validated maternal instinct, cling to the bad boy/heal the damaged man. All after he got his initial book deals of course, I assume (how did he even get them?)

Unironically, one of my first orders of business after the lockdown lifts will be to order a pack of Cioran books.

[Anonymous No.15382860]

>>15382782
>similar notion of the ephemeral
Yes, those little remarks in his book are quite striking because of their dissonance with the usual themes. There's a beautiful and humorous one in "The Trouble with Being Born" (I think) about a chestnut fruit falling right in front of his feet while on a walk.

>he successfully escaped work
That's what I like about Cioran. Most other writers are very serious about presenting themselves as hard-working people and go on about drafting, research, book tours, even warning aspiring authors of the strenuous lifestyle involved. Cioran simply didn't want to work. He came to Paris on a scholarship grant to write a thesis on Nietzsche or whatever, lived on the grant for seven years and never even handed anything in, as far as I know.

>how did he even get them?
I don't remember, but most likely connections, as always. Meet the right people in the cafes, get smashed on red wine and they in turn will know the right people to publish your stuff. There must be something about this in the Cioran biography (which is "informative", but not well-written and unravels into Cioran's yearly reading lists when it comes to the later life since there simply wasn't much to write about). Compare Beckett, who had to send his early stuff around for years and years in Paris and London before someone agreed to publish it. It might have helped that Cioran was not an "experimentalist" - he has a poignant, lavish style, but within broad literary conventions.

[Anonymous No.15383248]

>>15380528
an other coping faggot and a larping pessimist normalfag.
pessimism peaked(or died idk) with Carlo Michelstaedter, Philipp Mainländer and Albert Caraco.

[Anonymous No.15384878]

>>15380632
grrr this guy writes as a means of catharsis grrrrr

[Anonymous No.15385498]

>>15382782
>disgusting normie in this way (ever having a gf at all)
This is one reason why he’s superior to the other pessimists. You know for certain that his beliefs don’t primarily stem from just being a lonely, embittered virgin.

[Anonymous No.15385656]

>>15384878
grrr this anon writes as a means of catharsis grrr

[Anonymous No.15386324]

>>15385498
>Every misanthrope, however sincere, at times reminds me of that old poet, bedridden and utterly forgotte, who in a rage with his contemporaries declared he would receive none of them. His wife, out of charity, would ring at the door from time to time.

[Anonymous No.15386331]

>>15380528