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/lit/ - Literature

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15345895 No.15345895 [Reply] [Original]

What is your opinion on Toni Morrison in general and her first novel in particular?

>> No.15345925

Bump

>> No.15345936

>>15345895

A strong writer, often dismissed as derivative of Faulkner despite having a distinct voice and stories. The Bluest Eye is good, not amazing but poignant and an honest portrayal of black existentialist themes, among others. Also unfairly dismissed as a "race writer" despite her works' tendency to weave many psychological nuances irrelevant to race. But I guess whites see it differently.

>> No.15345946

>>15345936
>weave many psychological nuances irrelevant to race
Which are honestly childish at best.

>But I guess whites see it differently.
Figures those psychological nuances would appeal to black 'intellectuals.'

>> No.15345951

>>15345936
Opinion on Beloved? I studied both at university a long time ago, and I just remember both being hardcore.

>> No.15345965

>>15345946
I knew this would happen. Even literal Nobel prize recipients are considered childish on /lit/.

Humbug.

>Julius Evola and Hitler are the only mature authors a man should read!

>> No.15345996

Well, obviously Toni Morrison has two main problems: she's a woman and an African, so that means she cannot be a serious author. She is subpar and not worth your time, because what would she know about anything? It's YA bullshit full of Reddit memes and SJW tropes and the plot is always bad. It's race-pandering and she can't even spell correctly when her characters are speaking.

>> No.15346006

>>15345895
>Toni Morrison
overrated trash.
her books are pushed bc she's black.
if she was white - male or female nobody would give a fuck.

>> No.15346011

>>15345936
>The Bluest Eye is good, not amazing
>I, anon who isn't good enough to publish anything except 4chan posts, declare that this novel by a Nobel prize winner is just kind of OK, you know?
You guys have healthy egos, yo.

>> No.15346030

>>15345996
>Well, obviously Toni Morrison has two main problems: she's a woman and an African
So was Shakespeare

>> No.15346054

>>15345996
>Well, obviously Toni Morrison has two main problems: she's a woman and an African
You just described Jesus Christ too.

>> No.15346073

>>15346030
>>15346054
Some hilarious autistic hivemind up in this bitch. Do you guys ever get tired of posting in a safe zone and hugbox for the likes if you? Or no?

>> No.15346195

bluest eye was v good. beloved was really bad. i tried jazz but it wasn't that interesting so i dropped it

>> No.15346209

>>15346195
How did you first hear about Morrison?

>> No.15346261

>>15346209
idk she's a pretty famous writer. several years ago i went through the nobel prize list and read all the winners for about last 10-20 years, so maybe there

>> No.15346300

>>15346261
Interesting. Tell me about your list of winners and if it was worth it.

>> No.15346306

i've only read beloved but it was far better than i expected

>> No.15346319

I struggle with rape in general; I'd like to reread The Bluest Eye, but I want to be sure that the homosexual rape scene isn't too hardcore. Is it?

>> No.15346336

>>15345895
Unfairly dismissed as "Oprah's favorite writer". Honestly I think Oprah shilling her did help sales but probably cratered her reputation. She's good.

>> No.15346364

>>15346336
This. Oprah was in the movie for Beloved. When I think of Toni Morrison, I actually picture Oprah. Naked.

>> No.15346528
File: 254 KB, 750x1334, 1516109537235.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15346528

>>15345895
Had to read her for one of my mandatory college courses. What is there to say about a black writer writing about being black? Certainly nothing that hasn't been said before. Tedious was an understatement. We ready both Jazz and Beloved. The only thing that made an impression is how even the vulgarity of her works was characterized by mediocrity. Gratuitous focus on flesh and contrived 'plots' you feel you've read a dozen times before in barely varied tropes or forms. Beloved in particular felt like reading a children's story re-adapted for adults, not an interesting way mind you. In the end I just regurgitated what my professor wanted to hear and was glad to have the ordeal behind me. How someone can think they're underrepresented or oppressed when they are sponsored by the state is quite beyond me.

>> No.15346545

>>15346528
Do you guys ever doubt yourselves rather than the quality of what you read but can't appreciate? Just curious.

>> No.15346552

>>15346545
I read and appreciate plenty. Morrison is only impressive to the impressionable.

>> No.15346557

>>15345965
Yes, trust a committe of modern 'intellectuals' rewarding those who preach tepid inconsequential hypotheticals.

>>Julius Evola and Hitler are the only mature authors a man should read!
Proves my point immediately. "Well, you don't like Toni Morrison unquestionably, then you must love Hitler." Pathtetic.

>> No.15346583

>>15346011
Yes. We can have an opinion irrespective of if we go on a certain website or not, fuck-tard. The tyranny of authority is sickening, think for yourself ffs.

>> No.15346591

>>15346319
I don't recall there being any homosexual rape, just the incestuous kind.

>> No.15346596

>>15346552
All right, name your comparably better authors.

>> No.15346599

>>15345895
I loved it. But I've not read anything else by her.

>> No.15346609

>>15346552
>I read and appreciate plenty.
Don't lie.

>> No.15346612

>>15346300
mixed bag. most of the european ones were bad/mediocre (transtromer, muller, jelinek, modiano, pinter). mo yan is quite impressive, red sorghum especially, probably the only comic writer from what i remember. walcott is also very good.

>> No.15346613

>>15346557
>Yes, trust a committe of modern 'intellectuals' rewarding those who preach tepid inconsequential hypotheticals.
People who have degrees from universities are by definition intellectuals. They may be wrong, stupid, anything you want, but they are intellectuals. The way you say "modern" and "intellectual" suggests you're one of those people who can only appreciate whoever agrees with them.

>>15346557
>Proves my point immediately. "Well, you don't like Toni Morrison unquestionably, then you must love Hitler." Pathtetic.
I touched a nerve. It's OK to like this stupid shit, I don't judge.

>> No.15346624

>>15346583
>The tyranny of authority is sickening, think for yourself ffs.
That's rich.

>anon: we should all think for ourselves!
>also anon: you should like what I like or you're a moron
>also anon: my autist friends and I only like the exact same authors and everyone else is a meme from Reddit

>> No.15346629

>>15346528
>The only thing that made an impression is how even the vulgarity of her works was characterized by mediocrity.
Maybe I should elaborate upon this? Frankly the memory of that course still fills me with nausea and dread. In fact I regret trying to process the particulars again, it made me realize we read the entire trilogy and that I had happily forgotten about one of Morrison's novels, Paradise. It was years ago but I remember one line very clearly from it "As the less-than-ladies welcomes waves of raw horniness provoked by her tight pants and screaming tits". Digging that up makes me think of those Game of Thrones shitposts about "the more she drank the more she shat". Morrison isn't much removed in terms of quality prose.

>> No.15346635

>>15346612
Modiano won a Nobel? I didn't even know.

>> No.15346645

>>15346629
>screaming tits".
You cannot be serious. That said, anons here frequently don't understand the concept of free indirect speech, and think that is the voice of the narrator/author (at worst) rather than that of the character. Anon is not very smart.

>> No.15346670

>>15346624
I just said Toni Morrison wasn't good, clown. Get your head out of your ass.

>>15346613
>People who have degrees from universities are by definition intellectuals. They may be wrong, stupid, anything you want, but they are intellectuals. The way you say "modern" and "intellectual" suggests you're one of those people who can only appreciate whoever agrees with them.
The Noble prize is a political award that you shouldn't takes seriously, grow up. This isn't recent either.

>I touched a nerve. It's OK to like this stupid shit, I don't judge.
If only you had a semblance of wit...

>> No.15346707

>>15346596
Why bother? It's not like you'd believe anything since you ask at all precisely to satisfy some internal defense mechanism that only the ignorant could reject Morrison's legitimacy. See >>15346609

I love Shakespeare above all, but since this is clearly an American thread of sorts Faulkner is good, Melville is better, I love everything by Burroughs, and McCarthy is the only modern author I hold in any esteem...ugh, I suppose I've read Jack London, and would far sooner sit through 19th century equivalent of middling YA fictions than anything by Morrison. Not sure what you want here, do you want me to answer trivia on The Sea Wolf, or Naked Lunch or something? Maybe explain why Fitzgerald is overrated?

>> No.15346710

>>15346670
>I just said Toni Morrison wasn't good, clown.
Clown? Do you think this is a motherfucking game?

>>15346670
>Get your head out of your ass.
I was hoping it would save me from seeing your posts.

>>15346670
>The Noble prize is a political award that you shouldn't takes seriously, grow up. This isn't recent either.
>everything I dislike is a conspiracy
>taking the Nobel seriously is childish, like everything else except what I like: Toni Morrison is childish, the Nobel prize is childish, reading is childish unless you read the authors I personally like (one is curious who those are)
>this isn't recent, the Jews have always owned the Nobel prize and BLACKED your mom too

>>15346670
>If only you had a semblance of wit...
You'll have to do a lot better than that if you want to have a semblance of sick ass burn, faggot.

>> No.15346716

>>15346528
Couldn't have said it better myself

>> No.15346726

>>15346645
No-one ever claimed this was the voice of Morrison. Anon is not very smart indeed. It's still a comically bad line, and not some isolated occurrence either.

>> No.15346727

>>15346612
Pinter is good tho

>> No.15346740

>>15346707
>Why bother? It's not like you'd believe anything since you ask at all precisely to satisfy some internal defense mechanism that only the ignorant could reject Morrison's legitimacy.
I made a bet with myself: every anon who shits on anything isn't able to propose better things than what he shits on. My thesis is that such people don't actually know better or are scared to name what they love because they're terrified that others might do exactly what they do to others.

You seem to confirm my thesis.

>>15346707
>I love Shakespeare above all,
Is it because he was a genius or is it because you think Ye Olden Engliche somehow makes you superior to others?

>>15346707
>since this is clearly an American thread of sorts
I'm Swiss, homo.

>>15346707
>Melville
My nigga.

>>15346707
>Maybe explain why Fitzgerald is overrated?
Not my nigga. SO WE BEAT ON, BOATS AGAINST THE CURRENT, CEASELESSY BORNE BACK INTO THE PAST, MY NIGGA.

>> No.15346741

>>15346710
Shame on me for indulging you. Good day anon.

>> No.15346744

>>15346707
All those authors are fine, great even, but it's like you're trying to be a caricature.
>McCarthy is the only modern author I hold in any esteem
Just listen to yourself.

>> No.15346757

>>15346613
Harold bloom and Nabokov two of the most well read men in history thought the awards were horse shit and always have been. Pynchon Mishima and Leo fucking Tolstoy got snubbed from the award. The current committee have no concept of aesthetic value only political ideology

>> No.15346758

>>15346740
>I'm Swiss, homo.
>discussing American author whose relevance is mostly in America
>proceed to list other American authors
>I'm Swiss
Uhh...ok.

>> No.15346763

>>15346707
What do you think about Kerouac, Salinger, Hemingway, Roth, Bellow, Updike, Pynchon, Hawthorne, Chandler, DFW?

>> No.15346772

>>15346528
>What is there to say about a black writer writing about being black? Certainly nothing that hasn't been said before.


She was one of the first novelists to write about blackness and being black in America. At the time, her stories about blackness were new. You are wrong kiddo

>> No.15346774

>>15346707
Unbelievably based.

>> No.15346781

>>15346726
If you don't think "screaming tits" is obvious Nobel material, then I don't know what to say to you, sir.

>>15346741
I accept your defeat, small mang.

>> No.15346791

>>15346772
>At the time, her stories about blackness were new. You are wrong kiddo
The trouble for your 'argument' here is she's written more than 1 book. Not that they're very distinct from one another.

>> No.15346794

>>15346073
Holy shit how did that bait actually work lmfao
Your actually retarded.

>> No.15346796

>>15346757
>Harold bloom and Nabokov two of the most well read men in history thought the awards were horse shit and always have been.
They're retarded, though. Being well-read doesn't mean having good taste. One is a pedo and the other rapes women. What did you expect?

>Tolstoy got snubbed by the "awards"
I am sure you must be joking.

>> No.15346801
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15346801

This whole thread is awful. I thought /lit/ was one of the good boards

>> No.15346807

>>15346791
>Not that they're very distinct from one another.
Morrison may be open to endless valid criticism, but this claim is simply evidence that you haven't read much of her (if you've read her at all).

>> No.15346810

>>15346758
Discussing American literature does not an American thread make. Homo.

>>15346763
Salinger is God. Hemingway is God. Roth stinks. Bellow I don't know. Pynchon sucks. Hawthorne rules. Chandler is a shit actor. DFW is a Reddit meme who blacked your mom.

>> No.15346821

>>15346794
>Holy shit how did that bait actually work lmfao
>lol i wuz baitin'

>>15346794
>Your actually retarded.
>Your
lol

>> No.15346831

>>15346757
>The current committee have no concept of aesthetic value only political ideology

True and false. First point was false, second point was true. You're deluded

>> No.15346845

>>15346801
What did you think? /lit/ is about retards who think they're smart because they read classics. It's all a joke. People who are truly into literature hate this board more than anything else. Don't go to a board about what you love.

Good boards: /ck/, /out/
Everything else sucks.

>> No.15346846

>>15346791
>The trouble for your 'argument' here is she's written more than 1 book.

What were you even trying to prove by saying this? I'm legit confused . You refuted nothing about my statement and further proved to me that she was, by profession, a novelist

>> No.15346857

>>15346807
I agree with this.

>> No.15346858

>>15346763
Tried to read Wallace repeatedly due to this fucking board, I can stomach his essays but not his books. His long winded style takes a certain amount of tolerance I can only muster for so long, even if it's a gratifying read. I particularly enjoyed the one where he's at some lobster festival and just explores how weird this whole lobster eating thing is. I still eat shellfish.

I've few particular views on the rest of your list, I've read some Salinger in school, seemed apropos for 9th grade, Portnay's Complaint convinced me to never again try Roth, not autistic enough for Pynchon, Hemingway has some short stories I like (Hills Like White Elephants is my favorite), not read Updike or Chandler.

>> No.15346861

>>15346845
>Good boards: /ck/, /out/
>Everything else sucks.

/tv/ is my favourite board. /ck/ is based as well as /fit/. I'd include /lit/ but threads like these bring it down

>> No.15346872

>>15346846
Her stories about blackness can't be new or groundbreaking when they're written over 40 years with the latest only a few years back, now can they? This is a simple logical step anon, tone down the asshurt and read/think.

>> No.15346876

>>15346858
>Tried to read Wallace repeatedly due to this fucking board,
This is the sad thing here: anons read what other anons here think is great and must be read. Meanwhile, these authors are just memes out there. Pynchon, Wallace, and a few others aren't studied seriously out there. It's Reddit-tier garbage and trash.

>> No.15346880
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15346880

>>15346858
>>15346707
Just wanted to use this post to say you have such awful views and taste.

>> No.15346933

>>15346801
That was an unfortunately mistake for you to make. My question is why? This board has always been garbage.

>> No.15346935

>>15346880
Feel free to post why or even volunteer your own superior tastes.

>>15346845
People will still be reading and performing Shakespeare 1,000 years from now. I doubt anyone will mention Morrison ever again after some point in the next 50 years. The classics are classics for a reason, they are the distilled winners from thousands of years of human history with profound depth and enduring qualities. Your contrarianism is laughable in the face of that.

>> No.15346938

>>15346872
>Her stories about blackness can't be new or groundbreaking when they're written over 40 years with the latest only a few years back

The point was she was one of the very first to do it. Everything else just adds to her background . You saying so now that she wrote a great black novel about blackness first that all her other work shouldnt be about themes she explored before? That would just be your opinon, albiet, a boring shitty one. You're literally getting angry and upset because a nobel winning black women writer wrote about topics that she lived through. That's so undeniably stupid

>> No.15346943

>>15346861
>/tv/ is my favourite board.
/tv/ is fucking retarded. It's /pol/ watches movies and series and look for Jews and blacks and hates women. Zero understanding of cinema to any degree.

You must hate cinema.

>> No.15346950

>>15346872
Good luck with that 89 IQ.

>> No.15346953

>>15346943
>It's /pol/ watches movies and series and look for Jews and blacks and hates women
Minus the bit about watching.

>> No.15346954

>>15346943
>/tv/ is fucking retarded


Thats why its good. Its the ultimate board to turn off your brain and just laugh

>> No.15346963

>>15346935
Edgy.

You have no point though. No clue what you're responding to in my post.

>> No.15346972
File: 137 KB, 500x652, le mao.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15346972

>itt: seething redditods who cannot believe people dislike their affirmative action PULITZER PRIZZZEEEE winner repeatedly trying to convince others they're the mad ones

>> No.15346978

>>15346953
lol

>>15346954
>Thats why its good. Its the ultimate board to turn off your brain and just laugh
I think I can't stand /tv/ because I can't take this approach.

>> No.15346983

>>15346876
No it's not, they want an alternative from the horseshit academia thrusts on them. There is nothing wrong with getting reccomendations. Plus that anon said he didn't even like this book. You're a retard, beyond redemption.

>> No.15346992

>>15346972
More like seething poltards who can't believe Morrison is pure fucking genius. U mad, bro? You want BLACKED, bro?

>> No.15346994

>>15345965
The Nobel prize is first and foremost a political prize only partially tied to literary merit.

That being said she stands by herself in spite of the Nobel.

>> No.15346997

>>15346943
Honestly, I love cinema and hate /tv.

>> No.15347001
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15347001

>>15346845
>What did you think? /lit/ is about retards who think they're smart because they read classics. It's all a joke.
Do you realize you're on a literature board?

>> No.15347008

>>15346983
>No it's not, they want an alternative from the horseshit academia thrusts on them.
Except those authors are the horseshit that "academia" "thrusts" on them. How do you not even know this? Is you top silly?

>>15346983
>reccomendations.
Try again.

>>15346983
>You're a retard, beyond redemption.
Projection.

>> No.15347010

>>15345895
>>15345936
It's trash. Good God is it bad.

>> No.15347021

>>15347001
>Do you realize you're on a literature board?
Only in name. Name one anon here who isn't a total tard.

>> No.15347029

>>15347010
>It's trash. Good God is it bad.
>she's a woman
>she's black
>the Jews control the Nobel
Paul, go back.

>> No.15347048

>thread has now devolved into samefaggotry to caricaturize the evil anti-Morrisons
well it was an interesting read for like 5 mins I guess

>> No.15347053

ITT: racist and sexist anons diss a dead woman.

Anon: I am the arbiter of good taste!
Also anon: if the Nobel committee has a taste different from mine, they are wrong and I am right! Because Jews!

This is why you morons never have a degree in literature.

>MUH JEWS, ALL DEGREES ARE FROM AND FOR JEWS

You sadden me, cucks.

>> No.15347078

>>15347048
>thread has now devolved into caricaturising anons who like Morrison

>YOU MOHOFUCKING NIGGER-LOVERS
>YOU DIRTY COMMIES
>YOU FEMINAZIS

This board was always shit. People who love literature don't come here. Trust me on that.

>> No.15347079

>>15347008
>Except those authors are the horseshit that "academia" "thrusts" on them. How do you not even know this? Is you top silly?
Because every anon on this board has read Morrison simply because they read them in school. They then say she's childish, thematically dull, and didn't deserve a nobel. Then you and your herd of redditors are freaking the fuck out. Now you're criticizing people on 4chan for reccomending other books to each other. ffs, you can't be so obtuse you conformist dog.

>> No.15347105

>>15347053
You're a joke. Why does an English degree have any merit? I have a physics degree and know it's completely shit, what r u even getting at. Awards are always geared towards the masses and political, what in the fuck is up your ass?

>> No.15347117

>>15347079
>Because every anon on this board has read Morrison simply because they read them in school.
>every anon is American

>>15347079
>Then you and your herd of redditors are freaking the fuck out.
Yeah, about that... You have a strange perception of what "freaking the fuck out" entails. Are you a communist, anon? Or a homosexual?

>>15347079
>reccomending
Jesus Christ, you didn't get it, smooth brain. It's spelled "recommending", you fucking autist. That's what I was "criticising".

Get real, dumb fuck.

>> No.15347125

>>15346938
>Not even a (You)

You idiots are spineless

>> No.15347126

>>15347078
>ctrl+f
>no-one said anything you claim
embarrassing
you realize people can just like...see...that you're full of shit, right
that things exist and are observable, yeah?

>> No.15347129

>>15347053
>This is why you morons never have a degree in literature.
Well, that's more because the only people attending university on /lit/ are stem kids.

>> No.15347130

>>15347117
>It's spelled "recommending"
You got me. My point is entirely invalid because I mispelled a word. Stop confusing intellegence with pedantry, faggot.

>> No.15347141
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15347141

>>15347117
>>15347078
samefag

>> No.15347144

>>15347105
>You're a joke. Why does an English degree have any merit?
It means you spent years studying literature at a university level with professors who spend their lives studying it. I know, none of that means anything to you because it's not sheer autism. We must trust an anonymous retarded online board over actual universities, because Jews and women and blacks, amirite.

>>15347105
>Awards are always geared towards the masses and political, what in the fuck is up your ass?
That's dumb. Nobel prizes aren't awards the way things actually called awards are, for one, and secondly, the Nobels are always pretty damn good and not "for the masses". They don't need that.

You won't go far believing that everything is a conspiracy, you nutter.

>> No.15347149

>>15346796
>nabokov
>pedo

alright now i know you are just shitposting with this basic normie bitch opinions. Also yeah Leo tolstoy never won the Nobel prize, which was pants on head retarded. You also ignored mishima and pynchon

>>15346831
how is the first point false if the second one is true? if they value politics over aesthetic value does that not in effect mean they have no aesthetic value?

>> No.15347154

>>15347125
You're the only anon I support here. I just gave up on this board and strictly adhere to shitposting now. The less I get involved, the better I feel. I'm 100% about trolling motherfuckers now. No fucks given, and I will never tell anyone what I love to read.

>> No.15347172

>>15347126
>being this new
>>15347129
>Well, that's more because the only people attending university on /lit/ are stem kids.
My kind normally does not indulge in autism. You made a good point.

>>15347130
>You got me. My point is entirely invalid because I mispelled a word. Stop confusing intellegence with pedantry, faggot.
I don't give a shit about your point. I entirely focus on you being a retarded moron who cannot spell simple words. Simpletons don't deserve attention, credit, or even to have me spend 3 seconds about their opinions. Learn to spell like a 10-year-old kid and then maybe I'll waste my time with your shit.

>> No.15347174

>>15347144
>It means you spent years studying literature at a university level with professors who spend their lives studying it. I know, none of that means anything to you because it's not sheer autism. We must trust an anonymous retarded online board over actual universities, because Jews and women and blacks, amirite.
Nobody even said this, you're full of shit and irritating. Getting a bachelor's at anu university is hardly an accomplishment, I'm sorry you're completely worthless and couldn't study something more rigorous and read in your spare time. Plus most classes are bullshit and busy work, all you learn is conformity and safe opinions.

>>15347144
>That's dumb. Nobel prizes aren't awards the way things actually called awards are, for one, and secondly, the Nobels are always pretty damn good and not "for the masses". They don't need that.
Yes, the noble prize is worthless. A muscian won, and majority of the writers are unremarkable or uninteresting, expressing safe opinions. Fuck you.

>> No.15347177

Don’t know a single french reader who actually respect her. Faulkner, yes, ofc. She’s obviously 2nd rate, mediocre stylist. Her themes will always be the main appeal.

>> No.15347179
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15347179

>>15346935
Let this be a lesson to you; never try to engage or argue in good faith with these types, they're like some perverse left version of anti-semites that Sartre cautioned against, at best they will waste your time, at worst they will bring you down to their level.

>> No.15347182

>>15347130
>spelling like an adult is pedantry
The worst losers are those who try to justify their mediocrity.

>> No.15347188

>>15347172
>I don't give a shit about your point. I entirely focus on you being a retarded moron who cannot spell simple words. Simpletons don't deserve attention, credit, or even to have me spend 3 seconds about their opinions. Learn to spell like a 10-year-old kid and then maybe I'll waste my time with your shit.
You're barely a human-being. Stop responding to me and leave this board you parasitic dog. If you think your pedantry makes you anything other than an autistic retard then IDK what to tell you.

>> No.15347204

>>15347182
Yes, now shut the fuck up.

>> No.15347222

>>15347174
>Getting a bachelor's at anu university is hardly an accomplishment,
Funny how it's always faggots who can't get one who say this. Of course it's an accomplishment. You couldn't even do it.

>>15347174
>I'm sorry you're completely worthless and couldn't study something more rigorous and read in your spare time.
I studied biochemistry and then got a literature degree. Literature was more difficult, by far. With science, you just learn, it all makes sense, it's easy. With literature, you have to think critically, on your feet, on your own, and everything is more or less abstract. As I thought: you'd fail literature if you tried. It's not like 4chan, you know.

>>15347174
>all you learn is conformity and safe opinions.
This proves, if that was even needed, that you never set foot in a university for anything artistic. I studied literature for many years, and every class was a fun debating time with plenty of vary different opinions. Nobody cared to conform, we all liked to discuss and argue in a friendly way, which autists can't do because they fail at imagining another point of view. That's why you autards need to rate everything "objectively" and can't accept when someone likes something you don't. It's fucking hilarious.

>>15347174
>Yes, the noble prize is worthless. A muscian won,
Fucking Bob Dylan won, for his lyrics. He earned it.

>>15347174
>expressing safe opinions.
Pray tell what are those safe opinions and what opinions aren't safe? Go ahead, don't dodge like a pussy, this time.

>> No.15347232

>>15347177
>She’s obviously 2nd rate, mediocre stylist.
You've obviously never read her.

>>15347177
>Don’t know a single french reader who actually respect her.
What does this have to do with anything?

>>15347179
Man, this is what chantards do all the time. Excellent image.

>> No.15347243

>>15347188
>he thinks spelling is pedantry
hahahahahahahaha

May your mother get cancer.

>> No.15347253

>>15347222
>Funny how it's always faggots who can't get one who say this. Of course it's an accomplishment. You couldn't even do it.
I got one in physics hahahaha you fucking idiot.

>I studied biochemistry and then got a literature degree. Literature was more difficult, by far. With science, you just learn, it all makes sense, it's easy. With literature, you have to think critically, on your feet, on your own, and everything is more or less abstract. As I thought: you'd fail literature if you tried. It's not like 4chan, you know.
Complete waste of money

>This proves, if that was even needed, that you never set foot in a university for anything artistic. I studied literature for many years, and every class was a fun debating time with plenty of vary different opinions. Nobody cared to conform, we all liked to discuss and argue in a friendly way, which autists can't do because they fail at imagining another point of view. That's why you autards need to rate everything "objectively" and can't accept when someone likes something you don't. It's fucking hilarious.
Pathetic

>Fucking Bob Dylan won, for his lyrics. He earned it.
Hopefully, bait

>Pray tell what are those safe opinions and what opinions aren't safe? Go ahead, don't dodge like a pussy, this time.
Everything you think is acceptable at a dinner conversation. You're a cyncial leftist at worst, and a servile statist at best. I'm done with you, but thanks for the laughs.

>> No.15347256

>>15347144
you are willfully ignorant if you think the humanities are not utterly corrupt take a look at lits top 100 books I guarantee if you show it to a modern lit professor she will say is that its to white and not even bother with the actual quality of the list

>> No.15347272

>>15347243
You're a vile repugnant person, much more so than those who criticize. Unfortunately, that comment would be downvoted on reddit, so get it all out of your system buddy.

>> No.15347277

>>15347232
>Man, this is what chantards do all the time. Excellent image.
It's what you've been spamming the thread with, with your Morrison apologies.

You'll note all of the particulars and specifics that were actually provided itt were against Morrison...which are weighed against shit like 'You've obviously never read her.'. Quality argumentation anon.

>> No.15347293

Dylan is goat btw. Fuck Morrison though (would be regarded as regional if not for her place in the American lit tradition).

>> No.15347319

>>15347256
>you are willfully ignorant if you think the humanities are not utterly corrupt
Maybe in your shithole. All my professors were fucking based as fuck. I learned so much and had a ton of fun. Every class had a gazillion references to other works. It was fucking amazing.

>>15347256
>take a look at lits top 100 books
Are you talking about a best-seller list???

>>15347256
>to a modern lit professor she will say is that its to white
I don't even know what you are trying to communicate here, you ape, but I stopped at
>she
Most literature professors are men. In my university, the ratio was 80% of them being men. Now tell me if you were dumb enough to think the best-seller's list has anything to do with this conversation.

I have excellent taste, but I would hate to be a snob. If people like to read this or that author, all the power to them. I ain't even mad.

>> No.15347331

>>15347272
>You're a vile repugnant person, much more so than those who criticize. Unfortunately, that comment would be downvoted on reddit, so get it all out of your system buddy.
Poor persecuted snowflake. Good thing you're here where nobody can touch you!

Still, I hope your mother suffocates on lung cancer.

>> No.15347337

>>15347319
What country r u from?

>> No.15347342

>>15347277
>It's what you've been spamming the thread with, with your Morrison apologies.
How could I do such a thing without having even read her? Are you retarded? Calling you out on your racism and sexism doesn't mean I defend her. Learn the difference, smooth brain.

>>15347293
Nah, nigga, she's based as fuck.

>> No.15347347

>>15347331
I wouldn’t even consider you worthy of an opinion. Best of luck anon, glad to know I make you feel so strongly, faggot

>> No.15347357

>>15347337
>What country r u from?
A country where spelling like this makes you sound like a child.

>> No.15347392

>>15347347
Shit comeback, mate, I want my money back.

>> No.15347397

>>15347342
With this level of reading comprehension it's no wonder you can appreciate Morrison where others can't.

>> No.15347408

>>15347397
My favourite author is Marcel Proust, in French. Come at me, fucker.

>>15347397
>With this level of reading comprehension
I literally said I had not read her. Are you projecting hard?

>> No.15347435

>>15347408
So ur a Jew, explains a lot

>> No.15347450

>>15347435
How on earth did you get to that conclusion...

>> No.15347455

>>15347408
>I literally said I had not read her. Are you projecting hard?
No-one asked, my dear retard.

>> No.15347457

>>15347450
You like Proust and are defending morrison

>> No.15347464

>>15346613
>People who have degrees from universities are by definition intellectuals.
lol

>> No.15347468

This is one of the worst threads I've seen on /lit/ in months. Really, everyone outdid themselves here, especially the >greentext reply pedant

>> No.15347476

Reading niggers and women are insufferable enough on their own. I can't even imagine how cringe a book written by a nigger woman is.

>> No.15347481

>>15347455
>No-one asked, my dear retard.
Lol, that bad faith bullshit.

>accuses me of bad reading comprehension
>doesn't himself realise I literally said I hadn't read Morrison while accusing me of loving her work because I am dumb
>gets BTFO and now says "MUH NOBODY ASKED YOU ABOUT DAT"

My sides.

>> No.15347501
File: 145 KB, 1155x384, 12048.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15347501

>tfw no matter how down I get I will never be a schizophrenic pretending to accuse himself of being a racist or a jew in order to try and redeem some midwit author by proving the victimization she lacks but upon which I insist and thus I myself enact with threadbare coherence
In the end this thread was encouraging.

>> No.15347504

>>15347457
>You like Proust and are defending morrison
How does liking Proust make me Jewish... How does attacking you make me defend Morrison?

>>15347464
If you have a degree in an intellectual pursuit, you are an intellectual. It's not hard to understand. You probably think writing clever posts on 4chan is what it's all about, eh, kid?

>> No.15347529

>>15347476
Sup, Paul.

>>15347501
>the victimization she lacks
You do realise Ton was born in 1931, yes?

>> No.15347556

True question: why are most people here completely fucking retarded? Is it because they're autists whose field isn't artistic at all and they struggle with abstract concepts? Is that the answer?

Most threads on this board read like my idea of incels being exposed to great literary works.

>> No.15347568

>>15347556

>durr it's hard being a black woman in america
>"great literary work"

>> No.15347575

>>15345951

Not a fan of it, it turned me off from her work actually until I read The Bluest Eye which I found more enjoyable. Beloved is smart and wrenching but it doesn't sing as well as TBE or SoS imo.

>>15346011
I'm a fan of hers, I just think it's good, and certainly not her best.

>> No.15347578

>>15347504
>if the institution says I'm smrt I am smrt
lol

>> No.15347580

>>15347556
You’re definition of retarded is why don’t they think like me. And you’re clearly a woman

>> No.15347589

>>15347568
Lol fucktard. Sure it was hard, nigga. But you can't reduce her talent to that. She's a genius. A single page of her novel should let you know, unless you're an ape.

You clearly have a problem with a black woman writing a novel better than you could ever dream of writing.

Nobody gives a fuck about your prose and you are seething now.

>> No.15347602

>>15347589
She's pop lit meme shit and only got famous because she was shilled by Oprah. No one will know who the fuck she is in 20 years.

>> No.15347609

>>15347578
>lol
>if nobody says im smr im smrt
Based fucktard.

(Also, being an intellectual merely means you deal in ideas, not necessarily that you're smart, but you wouldn't know that: you just want to think universities have no legitimacy because they're more advanced than you are, a common reaction for common people.)

Funny how chantards sound like old whiny people.

>> No.15347610

>>15347609
French fag

>> No.15347615

>>15347568

Not him but lol you haven't read Morrison if you think that's all her novels are about. And besides that, the black woman's condition is obviously unique and provides a wealth of insight into modern societal ailments. Your denial is irrelevant to the matter aside from being a tell of the aforementioned issues.

>> No.15347616

>>15347580
>You’re definition of retarded
>You're retarded
kek

>>15347602
>She's pop lit
Here we go again. Add pop to anything you want to discredit. Based moron. Being popular doesn't always mean being bad, you sikrit club homo.

>> No.15347630

>>15347609
>(Also, being an intellectual merely means you deal in ideas
That would apply to...well literally everybody then, I think gorillas might also qualify.

What exactly is the process you think exists in a university degree that makes someone especially capable of 'dealing in ideas', I'm curious?

>> No.15347632

>>15347610
Thankfully, I am not French.

>>15347615
Based anon.

>> No.15347637

>>15347609
Shut the fuck up frog. Celine was right about you

>> No.15347643

>>15347602

She's already had a 40 year legacy anon, Harlem Renaissance poets with less talent than her have lasted longer. She'll be in the American Canon for some time, you can be bitter without being delusional.

>> No.15347661

>>15346528
>She was one of the first novelists to write about blackness and being black in America.
Wait what? Black novelists before the 1970s didn't write about being black in America?

>> No.15347686

>>15345895
Deeply mediocre and propped up by academia, she's not even especially good among black writers.

>> No.15347714

>>15347630
>That would apply to...well literally everybody then, I think gorillas might also qualify.
When I said "deal in", I meant professionally or at least on an academic level. Anyone who means to study literature on an academic level is on an intellectual venture.

>>15347630
>What exactly is the process you think exists in a university degree that makes someone especially capable of 'dealing in ideas', I'm curious?
- classes in logic, rhetorics
- classes in Latin and Greek
- classes in the history of ideas
- classes in linguistics
- all these classes in a second language as well
- literary history
- philosophy
- classes from foreign professors on a visit
- more than I can list

It's all pretty fucking based if you ask me. You spend your time dealing with ideas, your own and those of primary authors as well as secondary authors. Literally years in dealing with ideas. Hope that satisfied your curiosity.

>> No.15347720

>>15347686
Name better ones, then, don't be shy.

>> No.15347731

>>15347714
Right, your entire concept of the process is based around having a credit from an institution. Just lol

>> No.15347755

>>15345951
I loved Beloved. Studied it as part of a course on Kant's ethics. I think it's a harrowing book that is ripe for digging into.

>> No.15347781

>>15347731
You're not even trying at this point.

>> No.15347842

>4chan thread
>everybody hates everything
It's all so tiresome.

>> No.15348078

>>15346943
I do unironically despise cinema, everything from classic French Noir to the infinite AI-generated sequels shoved down our throats. Film is a disgusting medium and I only ever post on /tv/ to derail the rare serious discussion and to shitpost constantly about race, reddit, and retards.
Sure Im just pissing into an ocean of urine, but pissing feels so good

>> No.15348128

>>15348078
I never actually thought scumbags like you were a real thing. This has been eye-opening. Thank you for that rare moment of honesty.

>> No.15348152

zora neale hurston>>>>>>>>>>>>>toni morrison

>> No.15348197

>>15345895
What’s there to say? She’s a good writer, most of her novels were engaging and compelling enough.

I think its messed up that white professors have turned her into a Messiah-figure but what can you do, she’s pretty much the only black woman author anybody’s ever bothered to read.

>> No.15348280

>>15348197
>white professors have turned her into a Messiah-figure
[citation needed]

>> No.15348582

>>15348128
Not that anon, but I also hate film and TV. They are ephemeral and can barely even be considered art. The best movie ever made is basically on the same level of artistic merit as a Danielle Steele novel.

>> No.15348775

>>15348582
You are completely retarded my poor dear.

>> No.15348796
File: 58 KB, 618x412, x-files-season-11-premire-jeffrey-spender.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15348796

>>15348582
And don't think I don't know where you took that quote, you motherfucking piece of shite.

>> No.15348924

>>15348796
What quote?