/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15338942]

Christians can't appeal to divine mystery or the transcendence of God in order to justify the Trinity since the idea of the Incarnation completely violates God's transcendence.

[Anonymous No.15338953]

>>15338942
Nice word vomit.

[Anonymous No.15338954]

>>15338942

did you attempt to research the conception of trinity and incarnation at all or are you just fishing for responses. the retardation of this posts transcends the flesh and retroactively proves the trinity

[Anonymous No.15338961]

>>15338954
I'm very familiar with the Trinity. Now respond to the argument.

[Anonymous No.15338962]

Yes, listening to music on a radio completely violates the idea the music transcends the radio.

[Anonymous No.15338967]

>>15338961
you obviously are not, and to imply that your "argument" deserves recognition is shameful.

[Anonymous No.15338970]

>>15338967
Cope cope cope.

[Anonymous No.15338977]

>>15338970

seethe more, brainlet

[Anonymous No.15338981]

>tfw the mystery of christ is precisely the mediation between creator/creation his essence allows

[Anonymous No.15338985]

>>15338981
this, immanence is the condition for God's transcendence

[Anonymous No.15339002]

>>15338981
based

[Anonymous No.15339025]

>>15338962
Why do Christians always have to depend on false analogies to prop up their ridiculous theology? No, the transcendent Creator of all things who exists outside of the universe, not undergoing change, and not constrained by anything somehow entering into the temporal universe, becoming flesh, and being constrained by a human body is not made logical by the fact that music plays on a radio.

[Anonymous No.15339040]

The Son pre-incarnation is the transcendent Logos.

[Anonymous No.15339081]

>>15339040
It's impossible to speak of God pre-anything. If something undergoes a change, then it's not the supreme being.

[Anonymous No.15339122]

>>15339025
Music transcends the radio. You are listening to Beethoven's 5th on a radio: you then destroy the radio. Does that mean you somehow harmed, or destroyed Beethoven's 5th? Is Beethoven's 5th somehow confined to the one radio while playing in it? Is it somehow changed by being played on a radio? The answer to all these is obviously no.

In the same way, God can be embodied, while not constrained to one body, or indeed, being changed at all by it.

[Anonymous No.15339179]

>>15338942
"The Trinity" aren't 3 separate beings. It's simply 3 different names for the same God. Muslims have 99 names for God, yet they don't worship 99 gods.

[Anonymous No.15339194]

>>15339025
What if Jesus is like a radio for god though

[Anonymous No.15339201]

>>15339179
That’s MODALISM, Patrick!

[Anonymous No.15339204]

>>15339122
This is bordering on docetism and pantheism. Is Jesus of Nazareth alone fully God and fully man or is he not? It is not a matter of whether God could have incarnated himself in another body or not, but the fact that he is claimed to have been incarnated at all. Anything which exists within something, whether partially or fully, is by definition constrained by it, whether it be the universe, time, or a body. And if he was at one point not embodied and at another point embodied, this constitutes a change, and no amount of mental gymnastics avoids that.

[Anonymous No.15339329]

>>15339204
>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
pretty much sums it up

[Anonymous No.15339379]

>>15339025
>>15339204
>>15339081
>>15339081
>It's impossible to speak of God pre-anything.
Only the false pagan god whose (nonexistent) personhood is identical to his ineffable essence and who cannot freely act in this world without destroying the distinction between creator and creature.
>If something undergoes a change, then it's not the supreme being.
Christ joined human nature to Himself without undergoing any change in His hypostasis or His essence.

>Following, then, the holy Fathers, we all unanimously teach that our Lord Jesus Christ is to us One and the same Son, the Self-same Perfect in Godhead, the Self-same Perfect in Manhood; truly God and truly Man; the Self-same of a rational soul and body; co-essential with the Father according to the Godhead, the Self-same co-essential with us according to the Manhood; like us in all things, sin apart; before the ages begotten of the Father as to the Godhead, but in the last days, the Self-same, for us and for our salvation (born) of Mary the Virgin Theotokos as to the Manhood; One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union, but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into One Person and One Hypostasis; not as though He was parted or divided into Two Persons, but One and the Self-same Son and Only-begotten God, Word, Lord, Jesus Christ; even as from the beginning the prophets have taught concerning Him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself hath taught us, and as the Symbol of the Fathers hath handed down to us.

>>15339204
>This is bordering on docetism and pantheism.
Maybe instead of learning about the names of various heresies on wikipedia you should just read any basic book on Christology...
>Anything which exists within something
Christ does not exist "within" a body. He possesess the body in virtue of His humanity. It's not a cringe gnostic soul trapped in material flesh.
>this constitutes a change
In what way? His nature did not change, neither did His personhood. He is the same Divine Logos and the Son of God from all eternity.
>is by definition constrained by it
He is no way contrained by His body, as He has the same divine omniscience and power the Father has.

[Anonymous No.15339435]

Daily reminder that nature is distinct from personhood. Christ can willingly enter into time by assuming humanity, but the abstract impersonal Divine Essence cannot, as it doesn't even make to say such things and it would be completely absurd. Christ is not the Plotinistic One, we don't mean the same thing as the philosophers and islamists when we say "Christ is God".

[Anonymous No.15339523]

>>15339025
>the transcendent Creator of all things who exists outside of the universe, not undergoing change, and not constrained by anything somehow entering into the temporal universe, becoming flesh, and being constrained by a human body is not made logical by the fact that music plays on a radio.
since we're on the /lit/ board, just read Confessions.
you sound exactly like an early heretic/cultist who is too prideful to admit that the omnipotent God has the power to incarnate as fully human without limiting himself and that matter is not evil.

[Anonymous No.15339556]

>>15339379
>Only the false pagan god whose (nonexistent) personhood is identical to his ineffable essence and who cannot freely act in this world without destroying the distinction between creator and creature.
Christianity is paganism. Plain and simple. It's the worship of a deified human justified ad hoc with pseudo-philosophical mumbo jumbo attempting to reconcile a contradictory set of scriptures which never presented a unified theology in the first place. There is no sophistication to this. You're not solving problems with unitarian theology. These are copes you invented to justify your polytheism. Destroying the distinction between creator and creature? You believe in a Creator who was born of a woman and inhabited a human body.

>Christ joined human nature to Himself without undergoing any change in His hypostasis or His essence.
This statement is nonsense. There was one point when he had no human nature and another point when he had one. Either he was always fully human or he underwent a change.

>Maybe instead of learning about the names of various heresies on wikipedia you should just read any basic book on Christology...
As I've said, I'm very familiar with Christology, but this is the problem with Christians: none of you even understand it and none of you can agree on it. I talk to Christians who think I represent it fairly, and then I go to another who says I don't understand it, but if I alter my perception and speak with another, he says I don't understand it. You want to hide behind "muh divine mystery" without having to actually commit to any particular idea, all the while pretending to understand something which the Church Fathers themselves admitted was an absurdity. When people critique your silly ideas with logic, at one moment, you say that they don't understand it, but at another moment, you say that it's a mystery which no one can understand anyway. Make up your mind or admit your falsehood.

>Christ does not exist "within" a body. He possesess the body in virtue of His humanity.
So was he not actually incarnated? Did he never exist within the universe?

>In what way? His nature did not change, neither did His personhood. He is the same Divine Logos and the Son of God from all eternity.
But he became flesh, entering into the temporal universe, making him subject to change.

>He is no way contrained by His body, as He has the same divine omniscience and power the Father has.
But he doesn't. This is obvious from any reading of the New Testament. The Son does not know the hour (Matt 24:36), he emptied himself (Phil 2:7), etc.

[Anonymous No.15339577]

>>15338942
Nice analytic argument, unfortunately it means nothing if I deny that a dichotomy exists between transcendence and immanence. Arguably nobody has consistently believed God to be transcendent other than Deists.

[Anonymous No.15339592]

>>15339435
>Christ is not the Plotinistic One, we don't mean the same thing as the philosophers and islamists when we say "Christ is God".
And that's why I can't accept your religion. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only rational way of viewing God. For anyone who understands philosophy, it's impossible to believe in Christianity without turning your brain off.

[Anonymous No.15339625]

>>15339592
*farts on your face*

[Anonymous No.15339749]

>>15339556
>Destroying the distinction between creator and creature? You believe in a Creator who was born of a woman and inhabited a human body.
How does being born of a woman make one a creature? He did not begin existing at the moment of conception, as he is truly eternal. Also, we believe that he is fully human (shares all attributes universal to human nature), not a mere inhabitant of a body like a pagan avatar or deified creature or other such nonsense. This means he has a human mind/intellect, human soul (which descended into Hades upon death), human will (Christ has two wills), etc. Show me a single pagan theology which has anything remotely similar.

>There was one point when he had no human nature
Christ's hypostasis does not exist in time, so it does not make sense to speak of any change concerning Christ when he wasn't even incarnate yet and not subject to change in his humanity.

>So was he not actually incarnated? Did he never exist within the universe?
Having a body and being trapped inside it in creation are different things. Christ did enter into the universe, but this does not mean that he "exited" or "vacated" some "place" to enter into here.

>which the Church Fathers themselves admitted was an absurdity
It's "absurd" only in the sense of being a shock for the pagan philosophers and a stumbling block for the Jews. Clearly the incarnation did happen and so is possible, and every single Church Father believed in it.

>making him subject to change
His body and other attributes relating to the human nature changed, but He himself did not undergo any change. Are you saying that you are identical to your body/mind?

>But he doesn't.
You can't say "I am one with the Father" without also possessing the Father's divine knowledge.
>The Son does not know the hour
See above. Christ has two minds, both a human mind (created, obtained from Mary) and the divine mind, existing from all eternity and shared with the Father. It's the same reason he did not go around talking Chinese, because he did not know the language in his humanity, but clearly he hears the prayers of Chinese people even when incarnate because of his divinity.
>he emptied himself
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis
It refers to him humbling himself and fully submitting to God as a human, giving us the ideal model to follow.
>Kenosis in Orthodox theology is the transcending or detaching of oneself from the world or the passions, it is a component of dispassionation. Much of the earliest debates between the Arian and Orthodox Christians were over kenosis. The need for clarification about the human and divine nature of the Christ (see the hypostatic union) were fought over the meaning and example that Christ set, as an example of kenosis or ekkenosis.

[Anonymous No.15339765]

>>15339592
>philosophy
>rational way of viewing God
>As far as I'm concerned

Low-tier cope replacement for direct divine revelation. The arrogant philosophizing you speak of is foolishnes to God.

“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is based on merely human rules they have been taught.
Therefore once more I will astound these people
with wonder upon wonder;
the wisdom of the wise will perish,
he intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.”

- Isaiah:29, 13-14

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

- 1 Cor:1, 18-25

[Anonymous No.15339786]

>>15339592
>it's impossible to believe in Christianity without turning your brain off

[Anonymous No.15339790]

>>15339523
lol he has the power to overcome the split in identity between God and man, but not the power to dissolve the structure of suffering in this world. Your religion is fucking bunk

[Anonymous No.15339853]

>>15339592
>it's impossible to believe in Christianity without turning your brain off
Yes.

>>15339790
>overcome the split in identity between God and man
There was no such dialectical "split" or "division", only a distinction between the creator and his creature. Man was made in the image and likeness of God and was always meant to become god through Divine Grace.
>dissolve the structure of suffering in this world
That is what will happen after Christ returns with His final judgement. God does not break His promises. You should be glad that He isn't coming this very second if you aren't a Christian.

[Anonymous No.15339867]

>>15339853
load of shit, your omnipotent God of Love can't make man a free being whose nature is essentially good (like an angel), so he is not omnipotent and answers to the principle of non-contradiction like a cuck. your God is basically a sentimentalized/personalized Plotinian One

[Anonymous No.15339930]

>>15339867
>sentimentalized/personalized Plotinian One
>"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

The "Plotinian One" does not lay down its life for the flock. It's not in its nature to do so, nor is it even strong enough to.

[Anonymous No.15339946]

>>15339930
That's why I said it is personalized/sentimentalized. It lays down its life for its flock because it is impotent to recall the structure of the world/assign life its determinations without implicating suffering/hunger/sexuality/death. Your god is a creator of the sheep and the wolves. I hate people who make excuses for a god of death. Disingenuous fucking rat.

[Anonymous No.15339948]

>>15339867
>answers to the principle of non-contradiction
God does not answer to fall-induced created dialectics like "true" and "false", especially when "false" has no real existence in the first place. God created man with a good nature, literally says so in Genesis. Pharisees tried this trick of playing philosophical word games with Christ too, look where it ended up for them.

[Anonymous No.15339964]

>>15339948
>look where it ended up for them.
with their descendants ruling the entire world?

[Anonymous No.15339987]

>>15339948
No, he clearly didn't if Adam and Eve were capable of transgressing a divine law. A "good" child does not carry within him the potential to transgress the parental law by definition, he is good precisely because he understands its nature and the ramifications of doing so you fucking git

[Anonymous No.15340006]

>>15339946
>I said it is personalized/sentimentalized.
How is Christ even remotely similar to the Plotinian One if he is somehow a variation on it? To be a "personalized X" you need to bear some strong resemblance to "X" in the first place.
>Your god is a creator of the sheep and the wolves.
Wolves did not eat sheep prior to the fall, which was caused by the free human will erring away from God.
>god of death
Well, he indeed is Lord over death, as he utterly destroyed it in his passion and subsequent resurrection.

[Anonymous No.15340020]

>>15339964
>ruling the entire world
"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done."

[Anonymous No.15340043]

>>15339987
>by definition
Pagan definitions. We aren't pagans. The act of willing is proper to hypostasis/person, not impersonal nature. Good nature does not imply the inability to freely choose contrary to God's will.

[Anonymous No.15340045]

>>15340006
Yes, humanity's flaws are single-handedly responsible for the predatory economy of nature. Sure thing, retard. Why would God create a system whose golden child implicates the death and suffering of creatures that never willed the same mistake? Doesn't the creation pre-exist man, why does his sin pollute the rest of the divine order? Couldn't God find some way to contain man's folly and devise a way to test his character that doesn't involve throwing him into a contingent material universe? It sure is awfully convenient for monkeys stranded in such a universe to believe an omnipotent embodiment of love would place them here, isn't it?

Isn't that ridiculously irrational and short-sighted?

Retarded Abrahamite. You worship a blind and salivating maw. A God of lampreys. Fuck you and your miserable war go.

[Anonymous No.15340068]

>>15340043
Then your enlightened, Christian reasoning would have me believe a nature whose essence is light and goodwill carries within it a potential for the blackest evil imaginable (since fallen angels make the most horrific demons). Monotheism is bullshit. This universe is a battleground between Gods of light and darkness, you want to absorb the function of darkness into a divine teleology which makes no sense to anyone with eyes in their head or a heart in their chests, your God is a rapist of children that buys them ice cream after. Fuck you retard

[Anonymous No.15340073]

>>15340020
>a-actually we WANTED to be slaves
COPE

[Anonymous No.15340136]

>>15340045
>humanity's flaws are single-handedly responsible for the predatory economy of nature
They literally are. Adam was placed as a steward/king and a high priest over the entire cosmos and his sinful action had direct consequences on his domain. Wouldn't a father engaging in major sin (say alcholism) bring the consequences back to his home and his family?
>Doesn't the creation pre-exist man, why does his sin pollute the rest of the divine order?
Humanity has an extremely special place in the created order, as only humans are a direct image of the Logos. No other creature can claim such a high place in creation. So when humanity gets stained, the entirety of creation reflects this. Creation is for man, not the other way around.
>contain man's folly
God freely chooses giving Adam free will over stronghanding Adam into not breaking his commandment. He did ultimately contain Adam's folly though, by incarnating and deifying human nature in preparation for fulfilling His original plan for creation.
>doesn't involve throwing him into a contingent material universe
The entire universe and created order was originally in a deified/divinized state, suitable for someone made in the image of God.
>monkeys stranded in such a universe
Atheistic nonsense.

>>15340073
Unironically this. Do you think the martyrs who were literally given the choice to reject Christ didn't freely die for Him?

[Anonymous No.15340153]

>>15340136
>Creation is for man

lol. Fucking retard demiurgic slave. Kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.15340181]

>>15340068
>carries within it a potential for the blackest evil imaginable
Abstract nature by itself carries no real force when there is no person working out this potential. There is absolutely no evil in human nature or anywhere in existence. But since there is free will due to being created in a divine image, one can fall away from God and refuse to be divinized by His grace.
>battleground between Gods of light and darkness
>Gods
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
>your God is a rapist of children that buys them ice cream after.
God does not force anyone to commit crimes. You are literally crying about there being "evil" when you yourself reject the only path to good.

[Anonymous No.15340197]

>>15340181
>There is absolutely no evil in human nature or anywhere in existence. But since there is free will due to being created in a divine image, one can fall away from God and refuse to be divinized by His grace.

the potential to fall away from divine grace IS evil you fucking mook, you're playing word games

>God does not force anyone to commit crimes.

lol, your God created the literal ontological parameters that make rape and pedophilia possible. you are a satanic apologist. kill yourself

[Anonymous No.15340205]

>>15340153
>demiurgic slave
why yes, I do believe that Christ is the demiurge and is absolutely good, how could you tell?

[Anonymous No.15340238]

>>15339749
>he is fully human (shares all attributes universal to human nature)
This goes as far as you can go to erode the distinction between the Creator and the creation as you can go without directly saying that God is a created being, and it imputes to God contradictory attributes. It makes no more sense for God to possess both human and divine attributes than it does for a line to be both curved and straight at the same time.

>Christ's hypostasis does not exist in time
If he entered into the universe then he entered into time, thereby subjecting himself to change.

>Having a body and being trapped inside it in creation are different things. Christ did enter into the universe, but this does not mean that he "exited" or "vacated" some "place" to enter into here.
A body is not a house. To have a body does not mean to inexplicably 'possess' one. The one who has a body by necessity inhabits it, or else it is a corpse. If he did not leave heaven when he became flesh, then what was the significance of it all in the first place? He did not give anything up. There was no sacrifice. But obviously none of this could have happened in the first place, since it is inconceivable that God should be contained by space and dimension. Yet at the same time you want to say, "Yes, Christ entered the universe," while also maintaining his continued existence outside the universe. You cannot have it both ways. Either God was literally incarnated within a human body or he wasn't; there is no logical middle ground. The prologue of John obviously intends to say the divine logos itself entered into flesh without equivocation.

>His body and other attributes relating to the human nature changed, but He himself did not undergo any change. Are you saying that you are identical to your body/mind?
Are you saying that because I the soul am not my body that I do not change? Christians maintain that Christ is fully human and fully God - to deny the human nature is to deny him entirely - therefore, every change which he underwent, he underwent in his entirety. Every change in his human nature is a change in his nature since the human Christ is no less Christ than the divine Christ.

>he did not know the language in his humanity, but clearly he hears the prayers of Chinese people even when incarnate because of his divinity.
But this is contradictory and reveals another problem. In the Gospels, Christ obviously displays knowledge which a normal human would not know, so how does he know this knowledge in his human nature, and if he knows this knowledge in his human nature why does he not know other things, such as the hour?

[Anonymous No.15340284]

>>15338942
“Change” is a spook for god since he exists entirely in all of time. Since everything in existence is predetermined and exact anyways he isn’t really “changing” when he is incarnated into the flesh

saged

[Anonymous No.15340290]

>>15340197
>IS evil
Where is this evil? Please show me when and how Christ created anything with a positive evil essence?
>reated the literal ontological parameters that make rape and pedophilia possible
Adam's fall is what caused rape to be practiced in reality. God places human free will above material satisfaction in a fallen world, and He only allows it to happen because it is a temporary suffering ultimately meaningless in the world to come.
>you are a satanic apologist.
Satan would try to comfort you with an explanation for how it's actually the goal to live in this current world and how we should be solely focused on how bad it is, forgetting the ultimate goal and perishing in the process.

“But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you."
(2 Cor. 4:7-12)

[Anonymous No.15340309]

>>15340290
>Where is this evil?

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/watchingrobertpickton88015/transcript-of-shirley-lynette-ledford-audio-record-t3312.html

Right here, faggot.

I dare you to read this and pull some moral teleology out of your ass about it. Suffering is never compensated for in this universe. There is no such thing as a divinely guaranteed moral ledger. You're a faggot and a child.

[Anonymous No.15340505]

>>15340238
>s far as you can go to erode the distinction between the Creator and the creation as you can go without directly saying that God is a created being
That's the whole point of creation. To make man (non-divine by essence and always remaning a creature) divine in his works by God's grace.

>It makes no more sense
God doesn't subscribe to created fallen logic.
>possess both human and divine attributes
Human attributes are not by their nature in contradiction or tension with divine attributes.

>If he entered into the universe then he entered into time, thereby subjecting himself to change.
Christ's personhood is entirely non-physical even if he enters into creation in virtue of being human. Show me a point in space which encompasses the Logos.

>Are you saying that because I the soul am not my body that I do not change?
Your human hypostasis is immutable from the moment of creation, otherwise "you" could cease to be "yourself" at some point in time. Your body can interact with creation and get subject to change, but you never get altered in your subsistence, only in your attributes/energies/operations.

>Every change in his human nature is a change in his nature
Nature is distinct from personhood. Any changes Christ undergoes are indeed underwent by a divine person, but without changing either his hypostasis or his divinity. The incarnate Christ is the same Christ who created the world, never undergoing any change that does not directly relate to his human energies obtained in the incarnation.

>But this is contradictory
The only measure for what is true is God himself and his revelation to us. Anything arrived at by fallible human reasoning contradicting revelation needs to be thrown out.

[Anonymous No.15340510]

>>15340238

>why does he not know other things, such as the hour
He clearly knows it in virtue of his divinity, but chooses not to answer the question and does not tell us the hour, pointing to his humanity. Christ does this all the time in the Gospel when the pharisees try to corner him with their tricks by giving an answer demonstrating his clear transcendence over petty word games and philosophizing, contradicting neither his humanity, nor his divinity.

See St. John Chrysostom's commentary on this passage - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/200177.htm

For this intent He tells them not, in order that they may watch, that they may be always ready; therefore He says, When ye look not for it, then He will come, desiring that they should be anxiously waiting, and continually in virtuous action.
But His meaning is like this: if the common sort of men knew when they were to die, they would surely strive earnestly at that hour.
In order therefore that they may strive, not at that hour only, therefore He tells them not either the common hour, or the hour of each, desiring them to be ever looking for this, that they may be always striving. Wherefore He made the end of each man's life also uncertain.
After this, He openly calls Himself Lord, having nowhere spoken so distinctly. But here He seems to me also to put to shame the careless, that not even as much care as they that expect a thief have taken for their money, not even this much do these take for their own soul. For they indeed, when they expect it, watch, and suffer none of the things in their house to be carried off; but you, although knowing that He will come, and come assuredly, continue not watching, says He, and ready so as not to be carried away hence unprepared. So that the day comes unto destruction for them that sleep. For as that man, if he had known, would have escaped, so also ye, if you be ready, escape free.

[Anonymous No.15340514]

>>15340505
God doesn't subscribe to fallen logic but he sure as FUCK answers to it lmao. you're a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15340539]

>>15340309
>Right here, faggot.
I only see a fallen human using his fallen free will to move further away from God. Sex by its nature is not evil, only the mode of willing the criminal used here is "evil" in the sense that it moves away from God.

>Suffering is never compensated for in this universe.
God never promised us any equivalent compensation for suffering in the fallen universe. It's quite the contrary. Just look at Christ's life. If anyone deserves a good life in the world, it's Him.

>There is no such thing as a divinely guaranteed moral ledger.
All the suffering is made meaningless in light of eternity in God's Kingdom. There isn't a need for a bugman rationalistic ledger to tally up points and distribute them to alleviate suffering.

[Anonymous No.15340548]

>>15340539
>All the suffering is made meaningless in light of eternity in God's Kingdom.


I know for a fact you wouldn't have the balls to tell Lynette's parents something like this. fucking disingenuous weasel

[Anonymous No.15340555]

>>15340548
How can you be sure of that? Most christoids are sociopaths

[Anonymous No.15340558]

>>15340548
Why exactly would that by offensive?

[Anonymous No.15340562]

>>15340514
>answers to it
"Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him."

[Anonymous No.15340565]

>t. someone that doesn't understand Christianit

[Anonymous No.15340572]

>>15340548
Denying this truth would be rejecting Christ. I'm sure any good parents would want their daughter to be in eternity with Christ too.

[Anonymous No.15340579]

>>15340562
>bro I'm not a pagan lol I'm a CHRISTIAN
>God is just as capricious and incomprehensible when it's convenient

lol fucking retard

>>15340558
shut the fuck up nigger

[Anonymous No.15340588]

>>15340572
literal sociopathy with a smile. I know your daughter got tortured, raped, and murdered but it was all part of God's plan bro, who was (by the way) responsible for creating the very darkness that consumed her lol. have faith bro.

[Anonymous No.15340597]

>>15340579
Christ just makes you philosophers, pharisees and "wise men" into fools by masterfully not giving into your petty word games and tricks.

[Anonymous No.15340604]

>>15338942
>Christians can't
Anytime I see this sort of statement, it gives me a hearty chuckle, the basis of this faith is purely paradoxes. A virgin that gives birth, a god that becomes human while remaining god, that dies while never dying, that is three beings while being one, and on and on.

[Anonymous No.15340606]

>>15340588
>responsible for creating the very darkness that consumed her lol
He did not create a cringe lesser darkness at any point. There is only one God and he is Good.

[Anonymous No.15340612]

>I demand that the infinite, unknowable creator of all, the one uniting and transcending everything, starts making LOGICAL SENSE to ME

[Anonymous No.15340621]

>>15340597
>explain suffering
>NOOO IT'S JUST WORD GAMES

lol. fuck you.


>>15340606
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Isiah 45:7

read the actual FUCKING BOOK you tell the rest of us to read you FUCKING nigger

[Anonymous No.15340625]

>>15340588
>literal sociopathy with a smile.
as if an atheistic "lol her suffering was to no greater goal and the evil guy who made her suffer had his fun time and will not be punished beyond this temporal plane" is somehow less sociopathic than eternity with God in heaven which wipes away all suffering by its very nature.

[Anonymous No.15340626]

>>15340621
that's the demiurge speaking, brainlet

[Anonymous No.15340633]

>>15340612
uh yeah, if you're demanding unconditional submission to his law most of us like to make sure we're worshipping a god of light and not a ravenous spider from the outer darkness you fucking nigger retard

[Anonymous No.15340640]

>>15340625
i'm not an atheist, you wasted your time posting this

>>15340626
then you're a gnostic christian, not a mainstream christian.

[Anonymous No.15340643]

>>15340625
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15340648]

>>15340579
I guess after 4 hours of you guys saying Christians don't have a logical theology and then getting spoon-fed you have to resort to name calling and fallacious arguments.

[Anonymous No.15340664]

>>15340625
it is the truth, or at least something approximating it, instead of your candy funtime marshmellow heaven where the victims of serial murderers just eat ice cream all eternity lmao

>>15340648
trust me your theology isn't as sophisticated as you think it is

[Anonymous No.15340673]

>>15340633
You're the one consumed by darkness, little megalomaniac spider. Put your feeble reasoning in your pockets and flatten yourself before God.

[Anonymous No.15340675]

>>15340664
>trust me your theology isn't as sophisticated as you think it
Maybe you should have done a better job at showing that then lol

[Anonymous No.15340681]

>>15340621
>I make peace, and create evil
Christ is talking about initiating wars to punish people here. They are in line with his will, so cannot be "evil" in the gnostic sense. The original says "calamity, disaster, bad thing", not "evil" as you silly pagan polytheists understand it.

[Anonymous No.15340682]

>>15340673
>dude just stop trying to fucking think about it so hard and it'll all make sense ok????
lol

[Anonymous No.15340687]

>>15340673
>humiliate yourself before the self-professed creator of evil

abrahamites are cosmic boot lickers.

[Anonymous No.15340691]

>>153406814
>Christ

it's from Isaiah in the OT you fucking retard lol

[Anonymous No.15340693]

>>15340682
The infinite eternal God doesn't have to make sense to you, you're a psychotic megalomaniac to think so.

[Anonymous No.15340696]

>>15340664
>it is the truth
You said it was sociopathic, which I've clearly shown it's not, especially compared to the so-called "truth" you stand for. It turns out to be both true and more compassionate to both the victim and the family, and more just towards the degenerate criminal.

[Anonymous No.15340699]

>>15340693
>I will gladly worship a deity whose motives and essence are incomprehensible to me, shut up and go to work goy

lol you can't make this shit up

[Anonymous No.15340703]

>>15340693
>noooooooooooo it doesn't have to make sense you're stupid for wanting that!!! just listen and believe!!!!!!!!
lol

[Anonymous No.15340708]

>>15340696
see, you are a child who equates compassion with truth. god created the murderer and the demonic energies he was consumed by, you are a fucking fool.

[Anonymous No.15340728]

>>15340687
I only wish to someday be worthy of groveling and worshipping at the feet of God, but none of us can ever be worthy of touching them.

[Anonymous No.15340729]

>>15340696
"your child died in agony and her murderer had the time of his life" -> noooo you can't say that that'll make people feel bad nooo God is good

lol fuck off

[Anonymous No.15340741]

>>15340691
>OT
Yeah, Christ is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That is the Logos speaking in that passage. All actions of God are done through Christ and in the Holy Spirit.

[Anonymous No.15340744]

>>15340728
lol don't worry faggot, your God has 8 legs and sits in a web of stars waiting for cuck niggers like you to buzz on over and get caught. he'll work in mysterious ways right up until the point he's eating your soul

[Anonymous No.15340753]

>>15340741
>Yeah, Christ is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

AHAHAHAAHAHAH a jealous, warmongering god becomes an all-forgiving god of love, who is also impassible and not subject to change except where it's convenient to splice Christian doctrine together with the demiurgic propaganda of the OT. kill yourself my main man

[Anonymous No.15340755]

>>15340728
with each passing day i become more convinced that christianity is just cuckold fetishism sublimated into the form of a religion

[Anonymous No.15340774]

>>15340755
Nah, this is just you projecting your fetishes onto other systems of beliefs. It's okay, we know it's hard to make coherent arguments after you spend all day jerkin your dingy.

[Anonymous No.15340776]

>>15340744
Not my God. What is your god like?
>>15340755
We're all finite and as nothing before the infinite creator; we could never compete so it's not cuckoldry to realize our rightful place as worshippers. He's the father of all, we're all equal before Him.

[Anonymous No.15340785]

>>15340753

>The impassable became passable, remaining impassible.
This angers the larpagan.

[Anonymous No.15340792]

>he denies the divinity of christ
oh no no no no no

[Anonymous No.15340806]

>literally placing reason into a divine status
This is really no better than the materialist worshipping matter as eternal and divine.

[Anonymous No.15340820]

>>15340774
>n-no u
how often do you think about other men masturbating?

[Anonymous No.15340828]

>>15340776
>nnnnngh yes spit on me cosmic daddy i exist to worship you
lol

[Anonymous No.15340838]

>>15340820
Well my religion explicitly rejects this behavior whereas pagans and atheist love and have no reason to reject gay butt sex and cuckolding. So go back to jerkin your dingy little man.

[Anonymous No.15340840]

>>15340828
Your mind is twisted and you reduce everything even to the lower levels of this lower material world, because you can't see any higher.

[Anonymous No.15340851]

>>15340840
you make excuses for a god of evil and call it love

[Anonymous No.15340855]

>>15340838
>Well my religion explicitly rejects this behavior
you probably shouldn't spend so much time thinking about it then
>>15340840
i'm not the one who turned begging to lick boots into a religion

[Anonymous No.15340857]

>>15340729
>"your child died in agony but she's probably in a better place now" -> noooo you can't say that that'll make people feel better nooo the universe is bad.

[Anonymous No.15340866]

>>15340851
God doesn't need to be excused for anything, he is the Lord, it's as simple as that.

[Anonymous No.15340873]

>>15340857
you forgot to mention the fact that the architect of this "better place" is also the architect of the misery and horror of her last moments because adam sinned at some point in the past lol. nice try though

[Anonymous No.15340880]

>>15340828
>only a NIGGER KEK FAGGOT could think that he's not of the same order of being as the Divine Logos
Is it really that hard to admit that you're not literally God?

[Anonymous No.15340881]

>>15340855
>you probably shouldn't spend so much time thinking about it then
You brought it up. This in combination with the fact that it's rejected in my religion is why I claimed you were projecting, so thank you for proving my point with your own words.
Get made a fool dingy jerker.

[Anonymous No.15340884]

>>15340866
>mmmm yes daddy I love this horrific void eating itself where all things slide inevitably towards death and where no creatures are satisfied mmmm omg daddy there's so much

[Anonymous No.15340888]

>>15340881
>You brought it up.
lol, your brain is rotted out and you didn't even coom first. worst of both worlds

[Anonymous No.15340893]

>>15340888
>Dingy jerking intensifies

[Anonymous No.15340899]

>>15340873
So what's your actual opinion. I can't even tell whether you think the existence of evil implies that God doesn't exist, or that he himself is evil.

[Anonymous No.15340920]

>>15340880
yessssss daddy fucking punish me harder, condemn me to eternal damnation you're so FUCKING hot

[Anonymous No.15340967]

>>15340920
The atheist/pagan cannot remove his mind from the copious amounts of gay cuckold porn he enjoys even during an attempt at an intellectual conversation thus his mind subconsciously or consciously (who can say) forces the subject into conversation. Fascinating.

[Anonymous No.15340973]

>>15340899
"he" is evil and you worship him, you basically worship a pillar of the community who rapes and kills children by night, kill yourself faggot

[Anonymous No.15341004]

>>15340973
So what do you consider to be the source of evil in the created universe?

[Anonymous No.15341112]

>>15338942
>Christians can't appeal to divine mystery

[Anonymous No.15341186]

>>15340967
cope

[Anonymous No.15341321]

stop posting lolis you fucking faggots

[Anonymous No.15341350]

>>15341321
>lolis
I don't see any loli in this thread, lolis are 6-12 years old. Are you a normalfag to whom any petite anime girl is a loli?

[Anonymous No.15341385]

>>15341350
this hair-splitting is pretty cringe. stop trying so hard to defend being a disgusting degenerate.

[Anonymous No.15341395]

Cringe ass thread lol.

[Anonymous No.15341431]

>>15341385
It's not hair-splitting, it's a pretty clear and obvious distinction. Maybe you should fuck off somewhere else if you're so bothered by loli or anime in general.

[Anonymous No.15341461]

>>15341431
>lolis are 6-12 years old
>it's a pretty clear and obvious distinction
yeah the exact age of a drawing is pretty clear and obvious, not at all retarded hair-splitting for weirdo NEETs with a total detachment from reality outside their computer screen

[Anonymous No.15341475]

>>15341461
Go back.

[Anonymous No.15341477]

>>15341475
no

[Anonymous No.15342736]

>>15341186
>Jerks dingy

[Anonymous No.15342762]

You have no argument there my man. You are looking at God as a monad that can't do shit but ait there and be. That has nothing to do with the Christian concept of God and that is why your argument does not make sense aginst it.

[Anonymous No.15343986]

>>15340612
So it's been a day and you retards still don't get it. The simple point of this thread was that appealing to God's transcendence and incomprehensibility is hypocritical when the foundation of your religion is God becoming a man and taking on an a form that can be apprehended.

[Anonymous No.15344042]

>>15343986
that's a much better point than anything OP has said