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/lit/ - Literature

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15329804 No.15329804 [Reply] [Original]

>Heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects
>Everything is made up of four elements
>Men have more teeth than women

How do these and his other false claims about the material world not throw all of Aristotle's philosophy into doubt? Presumably he used the same logical reasoning for all of his thoughts, and if this leads him to such wildly incorrect ideas in natural physics then why should his metaphysical conclusions not also be equally wrong?

>> No.15329818

>>15329804
Aristotle’s philosophy didn’t gift us with the objective view of the universe, he gifted us with the method at which we could acquire the objective view.

>> No.15329825

>Heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects

That's something that Copernicus thought too, buddy. The theories of gravity were a very recent development in physics, you're criticizing Aristotle for not being aware of something that came almost two millennia after he wrote.

>> No.15330124

>>15329804
>Men have more teeth than women
this is true if you punch them like i do

>> No.15330143

>>15330124
Holy based

>> No.15330156

Bro, Greeks would throw out ridiculous theories just for the sake of argument. They didn't always literally believe what they were saying, but they did belief debates would bring you closer to the truth of the matter

>> No.15330177

>>15330124

you owe me a cup of cofee and a keyboard you bastard, kek

>> No.15330180

>>15329804

>Heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects

They don't?

>> No.15330189
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15330189

>>15330124

>> No.15330197

>>15329804

>Heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects

Literally how is this wrong? If I drop a feather and a rock out the window at the same time the rock will hit the ground first no?

Let me guess if they are in a vacuum and the autism conditions are just perfect (which they obviously would never ever be in ancient Greece) they fall at the same speed or some bullshit like that? God I hate STEMcels so much.

>> No.15330201

>>15330124
lol

>> No.15330206

>>15330197
>this is what humanities majors actually believe
LMAO

>> No.15330213

>>15330197
They hit the ground at the same time. Crumple up a piece of paper and drop it at the same height as a book. There's your answer

>> No.15330217

>>15330180
speed of objects falling depends on wind resistance, weight is not really a factor. we did an experiment on this in high school

>> No.15330221

>>15330213
how

>> No.15330225

>>15330180
no. Were you not taught this in ninth grade?
I'm no scientist but I recall it's because something like things that fall have no force being pushed on them but only gravity pulling it down. so everything falls as fast. Obviously a feather doesn't fall as fast because of the wind and stuff, but in a vacuum like on the moon a feather would fall as fast as an elephant.
I think.

>> No.15330228

>>15330221
Please tell me you aren't this dumb

>> No.15330234

>>15330197
this must be bait.

>> No.15330235

>>15330225
gravitational acceleration is a constant based on the mass of the object generating the gravity.

in practice lighter objects often fall slower because they do not beat air resistance as well as more massive, better shaped objects.

but if you drop a 1 ton cannonball and a 10 ton cannonball from 20k feet they will hit the ground at the same time, just about.

>> No.15330240

>>15330213
Just did it and it wasn't close? How are STEMs this

>> No.15330241

>>15330228
heavier objects DO fall faster than lighter objects because of stronger gravitational pull

>> No.15330242

>>15330213

Wtf obviously they don't? Why are STEMcels so fucking autistic? Their professor tells them something once and they just take it to be gospel.

>b-b-but under the right condushions

Fuck you and fuck your laboratory

>> No.15330243
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15330243

>>15330221
you're literally using the internet right now, a system that allows you to attain any knowledge you desire.

>> No.15330245

>>15329804
>How do these and his other false claims about the material world not throw all of Aristotle's philosophy into doubt? Presumably he used the same logical reasoning for all of his thoughts,
Your presumption is wrong.

>> No.15330252

>>15330197
Good job derailing the thread. Can't believe so many people fell for this.

>> No.15330287

>>15330197
Genius IQ tier anon, you could unironically become a Nobel tier scientist
>>15330206
>>15330213
>>15330252
>>15330234
Low test, yeast bugmales

Daily reminder that the point of science is to offer a praxis that allows you to interpret reality and in Aristotle's case it did, since lighter objects do fall slower in our planet due to air resistance
Don't believe me?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Rovelli
https://arxiv.org/abs/1312.4057
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-american-philosophical-association/article/aristotles-physics-a-physicists-look/60964532EE56BA65655971A314FD9717
>I show that Aristotelian physics is a correct and nonintuitive approximation of Newtonian physics in the suitable domain (motion in fluids) in the same technical sense in which Newton's theory is an approximation of Einstein's theory. Aristotelian physics lasted long not because it became dogma, but because it is a very good, empirically grounded theory. This observation suggests some general considerations on intertheoretical relationships.

How are /lit/cels going to recover?
Aristotle still mogs you 2500 years later.
>inb4 adhoms, shitposts, basedjaks, "but it's wrong because I said so!" Incoming

>> No.15330308

>>15330287
>head pseud of Loop Quantum Gravity defending Aristotelian physics
Why am I not surprised...

>> No.15330315

>>15330308
Ad hom 1 done
Let's check the others now

>> No.15330325

>>15330287
All of you are wrong. Newton was originally right with his concept of the Aether and its relationship with gravity. You won't hear about the Aether anywhere since it's been suppressed by (((them))) and ayys. This post might even be deleted by them

>> No.15330335

Metaphysical arguments are based on deductive reasoning and empirical claims are based on inductive reasoning. They are two completely different things, and being wrong in one has nothing whatsoever to do with being right in the other.

>> No.15330344

>>15330197
Other people are mocking you and calling it bait but you're actually right. That conclusion is a perfectly logical one without underlying knowledge of gravity and air resistance, which Aristotle obviously didn't have.

>> No.15330367

>>15330344
Yeah but that poster SHOULD have prior knowledge of gravity and air resistance.

>> No.15330376

>>15330367
Read this >>15330287
If Aristotle is incorrect also Newton is incorrect according to your own logic
The fact is that you're a low iq pseud who doesn't understand science

>> No.15330379

>>15330376
Newton's theory literally is "incorrect" though, it's just less incorrect than Aristotle's.

>> No.15330386

>>15330379
Also Einstein's theory is "incorrect", just less incorrect than whatever string theory turns out to be right.

>> No.15330389

>>15329825
how about the teeth stuff

>> No.15330397
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15330397

>>15329825
>you're criticizing Aristotle for not being aware of something that is self evident

>> No.15330402

>>15330367
And so what?

>> No.15330404

>>15330386
Aristotle's claims can be experimentally tested, string theory's can't.

>> No.15330414

>>15330404
That's not true in principle, humans just can't build a large enough collider at the moment.

>> No.15330468

>>15330397
Heavier objects have higher terminal velocities. A stone falls faster than a feather, and a 2 gram coin falls faster in water than a 1 gram coin.

>> No.15330551

100kg's of stone is heaver that 100kg's of feathers

>> No.15330848

>>15329804
Dunno about the teeth but I can explain the other two.

You're imposing terms upon him that did not yet exist. You don't know what he means by elements, you assume it has something to do with the recent table of elements built atop theories but that just steals the name from the cultural background and like anything else is a flimsy (but pragmatically powerful) model discretising arbitrarily. How about you understand what he means? Various conceptions of elements exist too, look at Indian and Chinese ones for some different takes intertwined with their philosophy/religion. Pro tip: they are more fundamental than your thinking and not limited to some discipline or material reality. The concept of states of matter is uncritically copy-pasted from classical elements too, though much more limited in scope obviously.

Earth (solid), Water (liquid), Air (gas), fire (plasma). Understand that ancient people used words in highly abstract ways that simply translating them doesn't capture. The abstract words we have today, though mostly now specialised, came about in the same way.

Do you know what he means by heavier and lighter? Not what modern physics means obviously because such a thing did not exist (though actually heavily based in Aristotelian physics because it too was powerful).

>> No.15330857

>>15330397
>self evident
It literally isn't. Intuitively we are lead to believe heavier > lighter for fall heights.

>> No.15330912
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15330912

>>15330551

>> No.15330919

>>15330225
>>15330397
>ignoring real-life conditions that Aristotle couldn't possibly have controlled for, everything falls at the same rate
Excessively criticising "heavier objects fall faster than slower objects" as some evidence of Aristotle being stupid is pretty nitpicky.

>> No.15330936

>>15329804
Four Elements = Four States of Matter

>> No.15330948

>>15330344
>>15330367
Shouldnt air resistance be known? I mean, they were aware that air is a fluid. you can feel air resistance by moving your arm fast, and sails literally use the concept.

>> No.15332019

>>15330180
It has to do more with density of the object. Look up the Leaning Tower of Pisa Experiment.

>> No.15332051

>>15330197
>I share this board with people who have literally not learned anything in 2300 years

>> No.15332057

>>15330936
That’s wrong and there’s also (at least) 5 states of matter

>> No.15332062

explain heavy ball vs feather

>> No.15332089

>>15332062
>drop two objects who differ in more ways than weight
>explain different results solely with weight

>> No.15332101

>>15329818
No it didn't. That'd be Galileo.

>> No.15332110

>>15330197
Everything on earth falls at 9.8ms^-2

The only difference in fall speed is air resistance on an object which doesn't have anything to do with weight.

>> No.15332113

He was right with the 4 elements tho.

>> No.15332115

>>15332101
Cringe. This is an Anti-Galilean board.

>> No.15332122

>>15332115
That explains all the tards

>> No.15332131

>>15332113
no he wasn’t

>> No.15332149

>>15330197
>doesn't understand physics
>comments in threads about physics
Good contribution.

>> No.15332163

>>15332115
Ok retard

>> No.15332165

>>15332113
There are at least 48

>> No.15332168
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15332168

>>15329804
>Men have more teeth than women
did he actually think this? why? lmao

>> No.15332180
File: 62 KB, 395x600, Aristotle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15332180

>>15330197
>this post

>> No.15332190

>>15332163
The Church was right, btw.

>> No.15332227

>>15330197
high quality bait, good job anon

>> No.15332238

>>15329804
Heavier objects do in fact fall faster in air beacuse of air resistance

>> No.15332267

Are you aware Aristotle is no longer a scientific or philosophic authority, OP, and he is notable merely for the inlfuence his methods and ideas had on subsequent thinkers who improved on him?

>> No.15332300

Two bowling balls placed a certain distance apart in an otherwise empty universe, and two feathers likewise placed, would result in the bowling balls touching first.

>> No.15332317

>>15332300
That's because of mass, not weight.

>> No.15332324

Two objects with the same shape but different mass will fall at different speeds in anything but vacuum. Solve the nonlinear differential balance equation:

du/dt = - 0.5*(rho_fluid*C_drag*A)/m* u^2 + g

the solution to u will still contain the mass of the object

>> No.15332332

>>15330287
Thanks for the paper, good read.

>> No.15332350

>>15332131
>>15332165
Proton (water), electron (fire), neutron (earth) and void (air)

>> No.15332356

>>15330936
>>15332057
States of matter are arbitrarily delimited.

>> No.15332470

>>15329804
Atistotle repeats like 363738377 times in his texts that his physics an biology is only correct if it fits observation, and without it all science is empty dialectics. Basically, those mistakes don't harm Aristotle's philosopy in the slightest

>> No.15332579
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15332579

good grief
this fucking thread

>> No.15332589

>>15330180
>>15330197
It isn't wrong. A heavy thing pulls on the Earth more, sucking it towards itself. The force the Earth pulls with is the same though.

Aristotle was right.

>> No.15332627

lmaoing at triggered STEMtards ITT who've probably never read Aristotle
>b-but in the vacuum they fall in equal time
irrelevant, Aristotle didn't believe in the existence of the vacuum and rightly so as no one could demonstrate its existence at that time. Aristotelian physics is based on the notion of natural position of matter and as such it must abhorr the vacuum because inside the vacuum there is no reason for matter to travel in one way rather than the other.
>b-but muh engineering
Aristotle differentiated between practical and pure sciences, surely you wouldn't be able to build a plane applying laws so crude as "stone tends towards the Earth because it is its natural state", that wasn't the point. the point was to construct a harmonious picture of the universe and its workings

>> No.15332640

>>15332627
>b-but in the vacuum they fall in equal time
They don't, though? The heavier objects pulls on Earth more.

>> No.15332653

>>15330124
Nice.

>> No.15332658

>>15332640
I'm generally on your side when it comes to triggering STEMfags and defending Aristotle (pbuh) but you're seriously misinformed when it comes to physics
>They don't, though? The heavier objects pulls on Earth more.
yeah, but it has more mass so its harder to accelerate and the two factors (bigger force but harder to accelerate) even each other out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDp1tiUsZw8

>> No.15332661

>>15332627
There's literally nothing to gain from reading a charlatan.

>> No.15332664

>>15332350
Retardation (you)

>> No.15332668

>>15332664
t. never read Aristotle and thinks water is literal water

>> No.15332671

>>15332658
Now, instead of picking a hammer and a feather, pick a Sun. I'm not talking about the force acting on the thing dropped, I'm talking about the force acting on Earth.

>> No.15332675

>>15332661
>There's literally nothing to gain from reading a charlatan.
cope, virtually all scientific terminology is due to Aristotle and the Greeks and the notion of natural harmony of the universe which originated in his writings remains in Newtonian physics

>> No.15332677

>>15332113
>what is the periodic table?

>> No.15332678

>>15330197
kek

>> No.15332691

>>15332671
I'm not sure I understand, Earth doesn't fall towards the Sun because it has a stable orbit, whether or not an object in a gravitational field will simply tend towards the field's source or revolve around it will depend on the initial velocity vector it has as soon as it comes under the influence of said field

>> No.15332693

>>15329825
It's something that can be easily demonstrated though. Aristotle's physics was seriously deficient in empirical terms.

>> No.15332711

>>15332691
The moon is orbiting Earth, or rather they are both orbiting their common center of gravity. If you dropped it like you drop a feather (i.e. start stationary) it would pull the Earth towards itself, but the Earth would pull it 81 times more. This happens with all two objects that have mass, obviously a feather is many orders of magnitude lighter than the Earth, but the effect remains. So, technically, heavier objects do fall faster.

>> No.15332842
File: 1.90 MB, 1080x1218, 20200420_123135.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15332842

>>15330848
>no response to the right answer

>> No.15332847

>>15332677
has nothing to do with Aristotles' elements

>> No.15332851

>>15332661
Aristotle postulated the first systematic way to identify charlatans.

>> No.15332855
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15332855

>>15330197

>> No.15332859

>>15332693
It's not easy. The only way to study it is to figure out the inclined angles trick. You don't actually believe it was discovered by throwing stuff from a tower, do you?

>> No.15332874
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15332874

>>15330397
if it was self-evident why did it take thousands of years for it to become physically proven

>> No.15333140

>>15332842
That picture is extremely based. Are there any similar ones?

>> No.15333177

>>15330213
holy shit, mind blown

>> No.15333198

>>15332874
I literally proved it myself when I was a kid with no prior knowledge of any of this.

>> No.15333216

>>15333198
The difference in weight with the stuff you tried is not significant compared to the Earth.

>> No.15333237

>>15333198
it's literally false on earth though. A heavier object is going to fall faster inside a medium than a lighter one with the same shape. The velocity is going to be nearly identical and linear for the first 3 seconds of falling, but the heavier object will accelerate to a higher peak velocity.

>> No.15333380

>>15329804
>Heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects

this is literally TRUE on Earth though because of air resistance.

>> No.15333397

>>15333380
Yeah because a big ball of lead has less air resistance than a small ball of lead. Think for a second.

>> No.15333416

>>15330197
Two words: inertia.

>> No.15333424

>>15333416
One word: Earth is pulled as well.

>> No.15333430

>>15333397
no, it's also true for a big ball of lead and a big ball of plastic

>> No.15333443

>>15333424
Oh fuck true

>> No.15333619

>>15332165
>>15332131
>>15332677
Water=Fluid
Earth=Solid
Air=Gas
Fire=Plasma

Learn some highschool science before posting here again, retards

>> No.15333625

>>15333619
Did Aristotle ever say that you can change one element into another?

>> No.15333682

>>15333619
>Fire=Plasma
The absolute state of you retards.
It's tragicomic seeing you people try to fit outdated cringe-tier scientific theories of famous philosophers by grasping at straws like this.
How about you defend Plato's "Timaeus" next?

>> No.15333701
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15333701

>>15333682
>How about you defend Plato's "Timaeus" next?
No need, it speaks for itself.

>> No.15333702

>>15333682
Fire literaly is plasma you retard.

>> No.15333714

>>15333701
It definitely speaks for itself - it's an extremely outdated work in light of modern medicine and physics.
>le demiurge meme image
You have to go back.