Liz Harman, PhD

[Anonymous No.15292721]

This woman is a professor of philosophy at Princeton University, one of the most prestigious educational institutions in the United States. She attended Harvard University for her undergraduate degree and Massachusetts Institute of Technology for her PhD. One could hardly pick a combination of three universities in all the world that would give the appearance of a more impressive academic pedigree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SQnQjryzI

So why is she such a fucking retard? These are the people teaching at HYP? What the fuck is happening?

[Anonymous No.15292726]

(((harman)))

[Anonymous No.15292735]

Oh, you didn’t know? Academia is cancelled!!!

[Anonymous No.15292739]

>this qualified person disagrees with me, therefore she must be retarded

[Anonymous No.15292744]

Don't forget that she got a tenure track job at a surprisingly young age at Princeton, one of the most sought-after Philosophy departments in the entire world, while her famous father was head of the department and her mother employed elsewhere in the university!

It seems like you might be waking up to how academia works, OP! Don't worry though, success and distinction in today's world are all about having "gumption!" HAHAHAHA!

[Anonymous No.15292749]

>>15292721
True geniuses, unlike Dr. Harman, will struggle to conform to academic bureaucracies. These people are hardly the cream of the crop, just the people who have "played the game" the best. That's how life works.

[Anonymous No.15292757]

being a Phd in phil means that you can tell what 2 words mean in the most obscure thinker you know. That's it

[Anonymous No.15292758]

When was the written word all about star fucking and "facebook friends"?

[Anonymous No.15292791]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15292801]

>>15292739
Watch the video, her argument is nonsensical. At best it's a brutal utilitarianism
As for OP, prestigious isn't indicative of educational. A university as massively important as Harvard is an institution before its a school. Look up its endowment. That doesn't mean there aren't smart people there

[Anonymous No.15292838]

she's saying that since the future is unknowable, a non-conscious being cannot be determined to be alive except in retrospect. i think it's reasonable. she mentions non-abortive early fetus deaths in pregnancy to establish that there actually is no real knowable causal path -- it's logically fallacious to say that a fetus will 100% grow into a human being if not aborted because if you can find literally just one example of a genuine miscarriage, you have objectively determined that line of reasoning to be false.

just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Anonymous No.15292840]

>>15292721
Oh honey, Ivy universities are prestigious because they have money and lawyers, politicians, and entrepreneurs as their alumni. Humanities research at most of them are some of the most subpar work in American academia. Honestly, only Yale and U. Penn produce work that is still actually discussed.

[Anonymous No.15292870]

>>15292721
>Harvard
>MIT

It just so happens they are analytic powerhouses as well, throw in Princeton too where she works.

This is pretty meh philosophy at best and is just reinventing the wheel.

[Anonymous No.15292874]

>>15292721
To the uninitiated listener it will seem like she has answered the moral questions about abortion forever and anyone who attempts to disagree with her is a religious fundamentalist and a fossilized relic of history, someone who will not accept reasoning and arguments. Of course anyone who is even superficially acquainted with academia will know that this solves nothing, that her work probably received both enthusiastic acclaim as well as thoughtful criticism so the issue is far from being closed. This has been the continuous trend in moral philosophy for 2500 years and Nietzsche already refuted any attempts at """rationa""" moral philosophy. If you feel like you disagree with her on the issue of abortion (either because of religion or moral intuition) but can't really point to any flaws in her argumentationthen worry not - reason is just a post-Enlightenment manifestation of the Will to Power but we've been tricked into thinking that it's somehow more "civilized" and less "barbaric" than raw force and it is this stealthiness that makes it even more disgusting than raw force. Fundamentally there isn't any difference between being physically attacked and being disagreed with so feel free to kill her and facefuck her dead body, Nietzsche advocated doing just that with Socrates but unfortunately Socrates' ideas survived his corporal life.
>>15292749
based

[Anonymous No.15292878]

>>15292838
You, too, have a proficiency in saying a lot of nothing.

[Anonymous No.15292880]

>>15292721
>listening to women
lol what a waste of a life

[Anonymous No.15292900]

>>15292878
just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it's nothing

[Anonymous No.15292911]

>>15292874
>Fundamentally there isn't any difference between being physically attacked and being disagreed with
kek imagine being enough of a neurotic incel to believe this

[Anonymous No.15292912]

>>15292838
All she's saying is that a foetus will only be allowed to live if the mother deems it worthy of having a future; in this scenario the mother is nothing more than a roman emperor passing judgement on which gladiator gets to live and which one doesn't. Has absolutely nothing to do with ethics.

[Anonymous No.15292918]

>>15292721
>The elite universities disdain honest intellectual inquiry, which is by its nature distrustful of authority, fiercely independent, and often subversive. They organize learning around minutely specialized disciplines, narrow answers, and rigid structures designed to produce such answers.... Too many students and professors are distracted, specialized, atomized, and timid. They follow trends, prestige, and money, and so rarely act outside the box.
>Education, at least an education that challenges assumptions and teaches students to be self-critical, has been sacrificed in a Faustian bargain. Charles Schwartz, an emeritus professor of physics, drew up a chart that showed that in the last fourteen years, from 1993 to 2007, management staffs increased 259 percent. The total of employees increased 24 percent. Fulltime faculty increased by 1 percent.

Read Hedges's Empire of Illusion.

[Anonymous No.15292925]

>>15292838
>technically anyone could have a heart attack and die at any time
>so it’s okay for me to kill anyone because they might have died anyway
based retard

[Anonymous No.15292943]

>>15292874
Based. Nietzsche would vanquish this lady to the shadow realm.

[Anonymous No.15292955]

>>15292721
the thing is that this is (accidentally?) a pretty good refutation of the idea that abortion is in any way equal to killing a baby.

[Anonymous No.15292962]

>>15292838
She presupposes the very thing her entire argument is aimed at proving. Yes, it makes sense to say
>A fetus does not have the property "alive" until a certain threshold; if we destroy it before it reaches that threshold, it cannot pass the threshold and become "alive"

It's just that this a) is fucking meaningless and tautological, and b) it PRESUPPOSES that "a fetus is not alive before a certain threshold," when the entire point of the discussion is to demonstrate that "fetuses should not be treated as if they have the rights afforded to 'alive' things, because they're not alive."

She's so wrapped up in this little brain teaser she thinks is clever, of retroactive determination of temporally mediated concepts ("we won't know if something is analytically part of something's concept until it demonstrates that it is part of that concept, at which point it becomes true that it was always part of its concept," a confused and derivative play on problems of temporality and determinacy discussed in depth by medieval Thomists and Leibniz, to name just two huge bodies of literature she could have consulted) that she gets trapped in it and forgets why she had to open it up in the fucking first place.

The relatively normal humans talking to her are actually protected by their lack of "philosophical training," here understood, apparently, as a willingness to wade so far into self-reference and tautology that you forget the reason why you did so in the first place. They keep trying to do what a normal human mind does and ask her to terminate her free-floating self-suspended nonsensical meandering in some actual payoff, a point where it resumes contact with reality. Unfortunately the only point where she's trying to come into contact with reality is "see? fetus not alive" but the fucking point of departure, the one thing the relatively normal humans she's talking to are likely to remember, was "I'm gonna show you that fetuses ain't alive," so they intuitively go "what? but you didn't do anything!"

Your instinct to be contrarian is healthy insofar as it spurred you to do more than jump on the bandwagon against this fat cunt but you need to go beyond that and actually achieve the level of philosophical self-consciousness where you look for the truth in any given situation rather than merely locating the biggest crowd and standing apart from it.

[Anonymous No.15292965]

>>15292721
Glad Bishop Barron BTFO this thot

[Anonymous No.15292968]

>>15292955
There are things other than babies that are bad to kill, anon, like fetuses, which turn into babies

[Anonymous No.15292972]

>>15292918
>Charles Schwartz, an emeritus professor of physics, drew up a chart that showed that in the last fourteen years, from 1993 to 2007, management staffs increased 259 percent. The total of employees increased 24 percent. Fulltime faculty increased by 1 percent.
That’s dark.
However that webm is completely acceptable. She’s in some boring stem lab probably research something niche and useless, it’s probably more wife-affirming and intellectual to strip.

[Anonymous No.15292977]

>>15292721
>If mothers drown their new born babies in the tub it's not immoral because that baby was always destined to be drowned in the tub and therefore didn't have moral standing
Yeah, this bitch retarded

[Anonymous No.15292980]

>academia
lmao

[Anonymous No.15292992]

>>15292965
Link lol

[Anonymous No.15293006]

>>15292992
it's in the comments section, literally the most upvoted comment

[Anonymous No.15293009]

>>15292721
You sound assblasted. Did you have an actual argument, or are you just here to whine like a bitch?

[Anonymous No.15293018]

>>15292838
If you do everything you can to save a fetus, and it dies, then defacto it had no future but miscarriage. However, abortion is the decision to actively deny the potential of a future. "Moral status" is meaningless in retrospect, because we use "moral status" as a guide on how to act now. Either the potential of a future is enough or the concept itself is useless

[Anonymous No.15293023]

>>15293009
Sounds like you didn’t even watch the video lol

[Anonymous No.15293029]

>>15292801
It's actually a really interesting idea that she's explaining in very simple terms. I would recommend picking up Nagel's The View From Nowhere. I think this is a specific line of thought from or around that, but I cannot find the paper I'm thinking of.

[Anonymous No.15293034]

>>15292918
>from 1993 to 2007
I wonder if there were any demographic shifts going on in education over this time :thinking:

[Anonymous No.15293036]

>>15293023
You never even gave an argument, faggot.

[Anonymous No.15293039]

>>15292874
based
>>15292911
cringe

[Anonymous No.15293047]

>>15292838
Taking false steps based on an unknowable future in no way separates one from a moral judgement of their action,
cope better next time, tryhard faggot

[Anonymous No.15293050]

>>15292972
>She’s in some boring stem lab probably research something niche and useless
It seems like that because you're boring.

[Anonymous No.15293059]

>>15293036
(You)

[Anonymous No.15293061]

>>15293034
Yeah, massive closure of STEM departments and an increase in business crap at universities.

[Anonymous No.15293072]

>>15292968
>fetuses
>bad to kill
citation needed

[Anonymous No.15293079]

>>15293072
Nice argument

[Anonymous No.15293087]

>>15292874
Thanks for your comment about Nietzsche, it works in perfectly into my book.

[Anonymous No.15293089]

>>15292721
This video convinced me to become pro-life.

[Anonymous No.15293090]

>>15293079
I will accept that with no sense of irony. I win again.

[Anonymous No.15293096]

>>15293087
what book are you writing? and how are you going to cite a poster on an anonymous imageboard there?

[Anonymous No.15293097]

>>15292965
But all he said was that it was stupid? I thought there would be more desu.

[Anonymous No.15293098]

>>15292962
Good post

[Anonymous No.15293100]

>>15292721
Moral/political philosophy has always been a weak and squishy field, but it's popular with the plebby undergrads because it's easy to understand and everyone has an opinion. Of course, Elizabeth Harmon only got where she is through nepotism. But departments have to hire these people to meet consumer demand.

[Anonymous No.15293101]

>>15292721
This is not a sincere attempt at investigating ethical questions. It is just coming up with the best way to defend a political position.

[Anonymous No.15293102]

>>15293079
i didn't have an argument to respond to. it has no consciousness. explain why it's wrong to kill something without consciousness and then i'll argue.

[Anonymous No.15293104]

Good. People should see this; even on the highest intellectual levels abortion is ultimately a bunch of men-hating retards who just want to kill nigger babies to prove they’re smarter than any man and fix the worlds problems somehow. Death to eugenicists, death to the antinatalists

[Anonymous No.15293111]

>>15293102
Becomes it is going to be a human in a few months if you don’t kill it, unlike humans in comas or the elderly and demented. How about start with them if your point is terminating that which is ultimately lifeless, then maybe you’d have a point

[Anonymous No.15293117]

>>15292721
>kill a baby before it's done therefore it has no future so it's bad
Doesn't this justify all murder? I can kill you now because you clearly aren't existing now so it doesn't matter that I killed you then.

Also how in tf is that liberal? There's no justification of the individual or pluralism. It's in fact a devil may care darwinism hierarchy.

[Anonymous No.15293118]

>>15293096
>how are you going to cite a poster on an anonymous imageboard
Hahahaha, although we have been put as academic authors before.

[Anonymous No.15293123]

Daily reminder that the problem of abortion could be solved in single day if every heterosexual couple engaging in recreational sex stuck only to oral and anal sex acts, but nobody will do this because Christians are too butthurt about "oh no muh morals you can't have sex for fun" while roasties will get butthurt by the implication that sexual liberties can have limits.

[Anonymous No.15293125]

Why do we allow anyone to advocate for abortion— isn’t this just an argument from privilege? If someone is born how are they supposed to speak to any trauma associated with having your life terminated in the womb?

[Anonymous No.15293127]

>>15292721
>pro abortion
>looks like an evil demon
every single time.

[Anonymous No.15293134]

>>15292721
>Harman earned her bachelor’s degree summa cum laude from Harvard and her PhD from MIT.

HOW???? How???? I meet smarter people at the CVS checkout counter.

[Anonymous No.15293137]

>>15292838
Then why does this not permit murder? That's a terrible ethics system and nobody can justify any laws using this. It contradicts itself. It's an interesting ontology but it dies on an ethical ground

[Anonymous No.15293139]

>>15293096
I'm not going to cite anybody, I'm just going to work in that poster's line of thought into my book somewhere.
My protagonist's position is pretty much that evolution is the only thing that decides "right" and "wrong". Morality is just a set of rules which enabled humans to survive to him. "Good" things survive, "bad" things die. Therefore, ethics can only be decided retroactively.

[Anonymous No.15293140]

>>15293127
Your meds m80.

[Anonymous No.15293141]

>>15292721
1. This is bait 2. It is well known her father got her into undergrad, grad, and that job. She grew up in academia.

[Anonymous No.15293146]

>>15293009
Tbqh with you anon the level of retardation is so high that I'm having trouble with knowing where to start. So you got me there.

[Anonymous No.15293149]

>>15293134
Because classes are designed to be passed. If you bother our professor enough and do all your assigned study prep you get the A, regardless of how much actual critical thinking put into it

[Anonymous No.15293150]

>>15293118
you mean the /sci/posters combinatorics theorem? that was pretty based, not gonna lie

[Anonymous No.15293153]

>>15293111
>Becomes it is going to be a human in a few months if you don't kill it

could the same not be said for making the decision not to have sex?

[Anonymous No.15293154]

>>15293137
Only first years care about ethics mate

[Anonymous No.15293158]

>>15293123
Automatic birth control for males and females and they can get it removed when ready or forced sterilization of everyone and we reproduce by taking skin cells and turning them into a sperm cell and traditional birth that way

[Anonymous No.15293160]

>>15292874
If you feel like you disagree with her but can't point to any flaws in her argumentation you're a brainlet. Nietzsche's psychology didn't stop him from being able to be a critic.

[Anonymous No.15293163]

>>15293153
This, all non-pregnant females should be constantly fucking.

[Anonymous No.15293166]

Just when I thought I wasn't an incel, they pull me back in.

[Anonymous No.15293167]

>>15293153
?
no, really, ?

[Anonymous No.15293170]

>>15293150
Yes, I choose to bask in their glory even if I call them faggots 90% of the time. New anonymous publishing is an interesting area, it'd be nice if we could do more.

[Anonymous No.15293171]

>>15293154
I mean then they can't talk about this being admittable in any legal sense. Ethics is derivative but this ethics has implications for stealing, murder, rape. It contradicts itself everywhere

[Anonymous No.15293175]

>>15292721
>if I kill you, you wont be alive in the future, therefore it is morally justified for me to kill you.

[Anonymous No.15293179]

>>15293153
Are you trying to say we should forbid sex because it generally leads to babies?
You know you cum IN the pussy to make bb, OUT to not. Also they sell these things at gas stations that let you cum inside, but not really. Science is pretty incredible you know?

[Anonymous No.15293181]

>>15293100
hey stop, political philosophy is based, if someone misuses the field for their cause then that's Machiavellian as fuck

[Anonymous No.15293185]

Here's the longer version of this video:
http://www.princeton.edu/~eharman/creationethics.pdf

[Anonymous No.15293190]

>>15293167
if your argument is that taking this action will prevent a baby from being created, where do you draw the line between that and just not creating a baby?

(confusion isn't a refutation by the way)

[Anonymous No.15293192]

So it’s a semantic point, unless she can prove conferrence of objective morality outside others’ judgement, which I doubt she believes in, all she’s really saying is “I call X moral because I want to”

[Anonymous No.15293208]

>>15292838
Do people actually think like this? Is it a consequence of trauma of a rabbi painfully cutting your foreskin off, and then sucking the blood out?

[Anonymous No.15293212]

>>15293190
How about the formation of a fetus?
I’ll even grant you zygote and fertilization are gray areas, but she brought up fetuses not me

Also being a retard isn’t advisable ever anon

[Anonymous No.15293220]

>>15292721
Jew...

[Anonymous No.15293223]

>>15293185
>the early fetus that becomes a person has some moral status
What decides the quantification of moral status?

[Anonymous No.15293224]

I’m convinced pro-abortionists are largely just agit-propping for the other side, it’s hard to believe people are this stupid...

[Anonymous No.15293225]

>>15292721
>/lit/ butthurt because of nepotism

if she argued for the opposite position, you guys would still be mad

[Anonymous No.15293231]

>>15293181
Yes, but not at the undergraduate level. Undergraduate philosophy should be focused on metaphysics, epistemology, philosophy of science, philosophy of mind, and logic. Classes that touch on concrete social issues are like magnets for the worst kind of mouthbreathers.

[Anonymous No.15293247]

>>15293181
Go read Machiavelli.

[Anonymous No.15293253]

>>15293212
why is that not a gray area? like it or not this argument is about the value of unconscious life, and that's not very gray.

(if you find a definite or even speculative mark where consciousness forms, I'll give you that as a "line")

[Anonymous No.15293273]

>>15292965
>>15293006
DIVINELY BASED

[Anonymous No.15293278]

>>15292965
Based Bishop

[Anonymous No.15293282]

>>15293039
this post is an act of violence
t. Neetch

[Anonymous No.15293286]

>>15293253
I mean, the “definite” line would be fertilization— I only granted you the gray area to give you an easy out and shut the fuck up. Rationally speaking as soon as you cum bareback in a fertile woman’s pussy you should be dealing with it as if it were life as all the pieces are in play to natural bring about life. To stop the process is then an action in the interest of knowingly killing a person.
Now it’s your turn, I’m interested to hear what your actual argument since you’ve avoided giving one for so long

[Anonymous No.15293285]

>>15292721
Princeton is infamous for being a hellhole of nepotism.

[Anonymous No.15293295]

>>15292965
How can you be a Bishop and a Baron at the same time? What the fuck america?

[Anonymous No.15293297]

>>15293160
>If you feel like you disagree with her but can't point to any flaws in her argumentation you're a brainlet
The only refutations I saw of her in the comments were of the form
>Harman's reasoning would also imply that X is good and X is universally considered to be bad (and Harman would probably agree) therefore her argument doesn't hold up
which isn't really a refutation as it implies a belief in a broader and more "consistent" moral system which upon closer scrutiny would probably suffer from flaws of no lesser caliber than the fallacy that Harman commited, this whole situation would launch us into an infinite descent of moral critique where no moral principle is safe from criticism which is clearly inconsistent with a society that NEEDS some form of moral compass that is universally agreed upon to function. You can refute a mathematical assertion (on account of being inconsistent with axioms), a scientific theory (on account of being inconsistent with observable reality), you cannot "refute" a moral principle in the literal sense. This is why Nietzsche had a much bigger problem with people like Harman than with warrior-poets.Harman operates within a fundamentally flawed paradigm of "rational" moral system but is (because of sense of duty to fellow women or moral intution) still compelled to stand for right to abort a fetus, she diguises this compellence in clothes of "rationality" instead of admitting that her position is just as contingent as any other position in the world and is an expression of her own feelings and not the decree of supreme Reason.

[Anonymous No.15293307]

>>15292801
>brutal utilitarianism
Nothing wrong with utilitarianism

[Anonymous No.15293312]

>>15293050
It seems like that because it is like that. Few scientists are actually working in anything interesting. Half the research that exists isn’t meaningful to anyone except the small niche of autist who decided on their career in grad school. It’s done and supported on the basis that one day someone will use it to yield actually valuable research. Which is true, but that doesn’t make all the boring stepping stones any more interesting. It’s the difference between some astronomer charting the changes in shape of the moon and one using those charts to discover the moon revolves around the earth. Although both are still stupid and pointless for life, one is by far more useful and interesting. Yet neither will make a difference when your wife leaves you for a stock broker and you’re get mugged and shot going to the convenience in your prius.

[Anonymous No.15293315]

>>15293295
And they say they have no gentry and monarchy and separation of church and state.

[Anonymous No.15293321]

>>15293139
Very based, glad to be an inspiration anon.

[Anonymous No.15293322]

>>15293307
post utility

[Anonymous No.15293327]

>>15293312
Very boring post

[Anonymous No.15293329]

>>15293312
>Yet neither will make a difference when your wife leaves you for a stock broker and you’re get mugged and shot going to the convenience in your prius.
I feel your line of reasoning is based in some sort of experience you had.

[Anonymous No.15293332]

>>15293247
you know books can have multiple interpretations? if I decided to use the literal one doesn't mean that I haven't read him or that don't understand at least some of his implications

some argued that he's pretty much useless and a high schooler can write the prince

but ok, please explain him to me

[Anonymous No.15293334]

All philosophy is just brain bending to justify what you already believed before learning philosophy.

[Anonymous No.15293336]

>>15292721
The Jews have really been slipping academically.

[Anonymous No.15293337]

>>15293322

[Anonymous No.15293339]

>>15293253
>concious life
that's a nice cop-out word you've got there
care to define "concious" before using it as the rigid standard you likely don't adhere to in any situation other than abortion?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » mxvabIoSIE No.15293340]

>>15293307
>Nothing wrong with utilitarianism

it's the ultimate bugbrain """philosophy"""

[Anonymous No.15293352]

>>15293307
>is a NEET
>loves utilitarianism
:thinking:

[Anonymous No.15293353]

>>15293332
No, seriously, go read him. I'm not sure why you decided to meander around with the comment, he has read other books than The Prince, since you seem to claim to have read that try one of the others.

[Anonymous No.15293366]

>>15293329
Yes, it’s called being alive and realizing that a cure for cancer is not as valuable as you may think when you realize every other person is clinically depressed and depends on pills to stay alive. Material and technologcal progress is maya.

[Anonymous No.15293382]

>>15293366
So she left you for a stock broker, you'll get over it.

[Anonymous No.15293390]

>>15293336
The time is ripe for chinks to replace them

[Anonymous No.15293393]

>>15292918
>distrustful of authority, fiercely independent and subversive, thanks to my grant from the Tides Foundation
kek

[Anonymous No.15293394]

>>15292721
>Princeton
>prestigious
You get into Princeton based on who you know and how much money you have, not based on merit.

Also, yea, she's a fucking retard. There are many good arguments you can make in defense of abortion; this is possibly one of the worst, and would imply that making abortion completely illegal or impossible dictates that all early fetuses have moral value, and therefore it's immoral to kill them. Does this not also imply that if I were to murder someone, then in hindsight their death is 'predetermined', for lack of a better word? Therefore, murder is moral in all cases. This would also mean that everything is technically moral. What a fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.15293398]

>>15293286

your point seems to be that killing a fetus is wrong because the mechanism to bring about life has been set into place, and therefore preventing that mechanism is an unnatural action to stop life from coming into being. Makes sense.

Where you should pay more attention is your last sentence. To connect the termination of a hypothetical person to the killing of a conscious human being is exactly the root of this argument, and you just stepped over it as if it was a given.

In my view on that argument, the fetus, having no consciousness or awareness of even being alive, cannot be seen to be alive in the same way that a fully conscious person or even a person coming into consciousness can.

[Anonymous No.15293405]

>>15292918
>from 1993 to 2007, management staffs increased 259 percent. The total of employees increased 24 percent. Fulltime faculty increased by 1 percent.
Jesus Christ. Manages are a literal cancer

[Anonymous No.15293416]

>>15293394
You don't understand her argument.

[Anonymous No.15293423]

>>15292721
There is objectively nothing wrong with abortion. This bitch stupid tho I agree

[Anonymous No.15293428]

>>15293416
she doesn't understand her argument.

[Anonymous No.15293429]

>>15293382
Enjoy slipping into obscurity researching the “trifold fromulations of curved space in hypergravity” or whatever nonsense, watching life pass you by as you try to edge other weak-wristed academics for funding, wondering why just dont have the same energy to read fiction like you used to.

[Anonymous No.15293430]

>>15293398
conciousness is either your requirement, or hers (but I don't recall her using that specification-- merely that it is a fetus) it is not mine. the honus is therefore on you (or her) to determine conciousness-- are animals concious? are mentally ill people? are really dumb people? are really ignorant people?

this is just an excuse. unless you're willing to go around and take away life where you can't definitively prove conciousness this is just dishonest.

[Anonymous No.15293431]

>>15293416
You must, apparently. Can you restate it?

[Anonymous No.15293432]

>>15293423
*aborts you*

[Anonymous No.15293437]

>>15293416
You didn't say anything with this post, and so I'm not going to bother responding. Maybe if you explain how I don't understand her argument I could.

[Anonymous No.15293448]

>>15293416
I understand that she relies on the presumption of a definitive 'morality' without explaining it or her reasoning for assuming it outside of her need to get what she wants

but go ahead and ignore this post, see if I care

[Anonymous No.15293450]

>>15293432
If my parents wanted to abort me when they had the chance, I would 100% respect their decision to do so (Not that I would be alive to respect it, but you know what I'm saying). Dogmatism is the most disgusting aberration of human society, regardless of the values it is dogmatic about

[Anonymous No.15293455]

>>15293450
>I give my respect to something = it is moral
look at this DUDE

[Anonymous No.15293456]

>>15293137
non-consciousness is emphasized as a precondition of the argument friendo.

[Anonymous No.15293467]

>>15293456
does she define conciousness in any sense, or is it just because she doesn't have to look it in it's eyes that it is presumed unconcious?

[Anonymous No.15293470]

>>15293429
>seething this hard over people that you allegedly deem inconsequential
lol

[Anonymous No.15293473]

>>15293455
Where did I say it was moral? I said there was objectively nothing wrong with it. morality doesn't even come into it. we r well beyond good and evil now nigga 4 real

[Anonymous No.15293478]

>>15293473
objectively nothing wrong in what sense? the techincal sense? the physical sense? what do you mean by this if not the 'moral' sense? what the hell are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.15293481]

>>15293473
>Where did I say it was moral? I said there was objectively nothing wrong with it.
absolutely based retard

[Anonymous No.15293486]

>>15292838
>defending this level of mental gymnastics to justify abortion
Big yikes

[Anonymous No.15293502]

god damn, the amount of unadressed rebuttals in this fucking thread...

can anyone delpoying this retarded recourse to 'muh consciousness' explain what they mean by that? how are we defining consciousness? is something with a preformed brain supposed to function at the level of a college student, or can it just repond to stimuli or exhibit autonomic life functions? what are your standards?

[Anonymous No.15293504]

>>15293473
morality, noun - principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong

[Anonymous No.15293512]

>>15292721
Is James Franco /ourchad/?

[Anonymous No.15293513]

>>15293473
>>15293456
>>15293450
>>15293416
>>15293398
>>15293307
guarantee you this is the same fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.15293538]

>>15293430
at this point, you have given human life an innate good separate from all other life, and to defend it you've merely thrown me a bunch of questions and a slippery slope.

>are animals?
many are.
>mentally ill people?
mostly.
>are really dumb people?
at a certain point of retardation, probably not, but killing retards is well out of the scope of this argument.
>are really ignorant people?
of course, stop talking out of your ass.

and finally, the fetus. at best, its mental capacity is limited to simple reflexes. the cortex is actually the last area to mature in the baby's brain. by most definitions, it is not conscious.

[Anonymous No.15293545]

>>15293512
god I hate james franco..

[Anonymous No.15293547]

>>15293478
In the sense that it objectively doesn't fucking matter whether or not a foetus dies. It's not "right", but its not "wrong" either. it simply "is" (or in the foetus's case, "is not" lol)

>>15293481
t. slave morality

>>15293504
pssh, morality schmorality. You're probably new kid, but in case you didn't know, I run things around here. what I sez, goez.

[Anonymous No.15293561]

>>15293502
Fetuses are subhuman trash and you know it.

[Anonymous No.15293571]

>>15293502
Disregard anyone who is trying to make an moral argument in favour of OR against abortion by falling back on the "at what point is it conscious" bullshit. Both are dumb as fuck and are playing the wrong language game

[Anonymous No.15293577]

>>15293571
BASED

[Anonymous No.15293578]

>>15293513

[Anonymous No.15293583]

>>15293538
>you have given human life an innate good separate from all other life
lol, no
>you've merely thrown me a bunch of questions and a slippery slope.
jfc, no again
I've asked you to define where the standard for consciousness is and why (presumably) you don't uphold it in any situation other than abortions. this level of evasion is just fucking embarassing.

also you've made not even an attempt to connect these dots to a principle-- also, wer're talking about morality, how the fuck is killing someone outside of the scope of this argument? this is what I mean: you're employiong an excuse. unless you are willing to advocate the way you want to treat fetuses as unconscious life tyo treating ALL unconscious life this way then you're just pulling something out of your ass to avoid having to raise a kid. if you want an abortion and you want to just accept it is amoral, then fine-- you and the OP bitch have been mentioning morality, that's probably your problem, topo big of a concept for your little brain

[Anonymous No.15293586]

This thread proves once again that anti-abortion = anti-woman.

[Anonymous No.15293591]

>>15293586

[Anonymous No.15293593]

>>15293547
>In the sense that it objectively doesn't fucking matter whether or not a foetus dies. It's not "right", but its not "wrong" either. it simply "is" (or in the foetus's case, "is not" lol)
go watch the OP again; we are having a discussion on morality. your claim that "I don't even recognize that shit bro" is not only irrelevant, it doesn't remove you from the stakes of this argument (i.e. youre determination of the irrelevance of morals will not stop things deemed as 'bad,' essentially 'amoral' by your heuristic standards, from happening to you)

[Anonymous No.15293594]

>>15293538
>but killing retards is well out of the scope of this argument.
Why?

[Anonymous No.15293602]

>>15293578
fine
still waiting on the rest of you...

[Anonymous No.15293603]

>>15293586
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15293611]

>>15292721
>this is your academia when it is for-profit
Let me guess, american publications staffed by Princeton alumni ranked Princeton University #1 in the entire fucking universe on all known and unknown metrics and definitely recommended that you should pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars for a syllabus with their stamp on it, right?

[Anonymous No.15293613]

>>15293502
Google defines it as "the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world." I would personally say that it is cognition beyond simple reflexes. Fetuses fail both. You indicate that you are moralizing this issue, but please try to define a consciousness that fetuses satisfy. I'm all ears.

[Anonymous No.15293619]

>>15293029
Haven't read Nagel. Is he able to justify what she can't, ie the decision of a mother or couple to deliberately disallow their fetus from having moral status (using her terms)?
>>15293297
The refutation is that her reasoning is sloppy. See a comment like>>15292962
I understand where you're coming from on a broader level, though. Hume reaches a similar conclusion about morals IIRC, just not so polemical

[Anonymous No.15293620]

>>15292721
This is just hella unnecessary. JJ Thomson already gave us what we need from this area of argumentation.

[Anonymous No.15293632]

>>15292721
The fact you're still awestruck by how judaic this bitch is proves y'all need to get the fuck out of you room someday. It's still time to post-birth-abortion yourselves now.

[Anonymous No.15293633]

>>15293513
>>15293578
Listen to the woman, you look like quite the fool now dude.

[Anonymous No.15293649]

>>15293593
>we are having a discussion on morality
Yes, and I'm saying that any question of morality in relation to abortion is inherently dogmatic and overbearing. I'm not removing myself from the stakes of the argument, I'm suggesting that to call it an issue of "morality" only ever confuses the issue further. All it does is lead to retarded and irrelevant discussions like "at what point does life start" or "what if you killed baby einstein!!!1!!!". It devolves into a squabble about meaningless definitions or speculative utility that doesn't go anywhere.

[Anonymous No.15293655]

>>15293632
Yes, we should be desensitized by now to the fact that jews have thoroughly subverted and infected all of our institutions.

[Anonymous No.15293660]

>>15293613
>fetuses fail both
fetuses respond to esternal stimuli (with what limited nervous responses they do have), and I don't think you can determine the 'awareness' of something with a predeveloped brain, so it's really at least 1, but possibly 2 counts there. consider that an animal is aware of stimuli in some but cannot articulate this is any way we recognize, I thnk it's fair to presume a nascient consciousness of this sort inf etuses that respond to stimuli already

[Anonymous No.15293667]

>>15293470
Im not allowed to voice my opinion in a basket weaving forum without it beeing a seeth? Take it or leave it, fag. But you’ve been warned.

[Anonymous No.15293669]

>>15293649
>I'm saying that any question of morality in relation to abortion is inherently dogmatic and overbearing.
and this point is irrelevant. thanks for playing :)

[Anonymous No.15293677]

Bishop Barron roasting her in the comments is the best part of the video

[Anonymous No.15293681]

>>15293649
>yo, watch me completely negate morality, bro
I remember when I was 14...

[Anonymous No.15293685]

>>15293677
His name is Bishop Bob Baron.

[Anonymous No.15293690]

>>15293681
Fucking slave.

[Anonymous No.15293692]

>>15292721
>tfw philosophy professor
>tfw all I wanted to do was apply Baudrillard's ideas to contemporary problems
>tfw I have to politick with people like her every day

fuck man there's maybe 2-3 pieces of respite here

[Anonymous No.15293693]

>>15293669
>>15293681
Neither of these are arguments, come on fellas, at least give me a bit of a challenge to work against

[Anonymous No.15293705]

If she just ended her argument at "early fetuses don't have consciousness so there is nothing wrong with aborting them" that'd be fine but she had to say the dumbest circular shit afterward

[Anonymous No.15293706]

>>15293692
oh oh OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH splurt splurt splurt

[Anonymous No.15293707]

>>15293307
Nozick absolutely destroyed utilitarianism eternally in a footnote inspired by the cookie monster, everything is wrong with utilitarianism.

[Anonymous No.15293709]

>>15293692
>philosophy professor
>allowed to study Baudrillard
what the fuck? I honestly thought most academic opinion of him was fairly critical.

[Anonymous No.15293711]

>>15292838
you could use the same line of reasoning to argue that abortions should be limited to whatever the average percentage of pregnancies end in miscarriage are

[Anonymous No.15293714]

>>15293707
sauce?

[Anonymous No.15293716]

>>15293693
that is an argument: you can't negate the need for system of qualification we're discussing just because it stops you from personal freedoms. no one here is contending any sort of individually centered morality.

[Anonymous No.15293719]

>>15293709
I got full funding for my masters + PhD too.

[Anonymous No.15293728]

>>15293705
t. dumb roastie

[Anonymous No.15293733]

>>15293728
Seethe incel
SEETHE

[Anonymous No.15293735]

>>15293705
A fetus is not a person. It only has rights retrospectively in case it survives to personhood.

[Anonymous No.15293737]

>>15293709
Oh no, he's mentioned all over the place especially in utilitarian theory/arguments of the 80s.

[Anonymous No.15293744]

>>15293583
>>15293613

The principle I'm working towards is understanding. I would like to understand the value of life, and abortion is the obvious tool for that. I also want to establish a clear moral line for abortion, same as you.

I didn't want to talk about killing retards because it's a tangent that's not worth going off on. I personally disagree with it because as a societal standard it's utilitarian, and the same line of thinking would lead to class exploitation. However, if legal guardians of (medically confirmed) near-vegetables wanted to off them, I would have no problem as long as it was done humanely.

I have linked a definition of consciousness. It seemed obvious enough that I could talk about something more important.

I don't want to raise children because of my own views on fatherhood, but I don't plan on having unprotected sex anytime soon. I have also never had an abortion, don't care about the feminist side of this issue, and generally don't think that self-justification is a good reason to philosophize. Therefore, I don't see how i could be selfish in my understanding of this issue.

now that I have answered all your questions, define a consciousness that fetuses satisfy or, if you can't, tell me another of your concepts which is topo big for my little brain. I'm all ears.

[Anonymous No.15293749]

>>15293705
>muh consciousness
pls read the thread you stupid idiot

[Anonymous No.15293750]

>>15293061
>STEM isn't business crap
lol

[Anonymous No.15293752]

>>15292721
Because of appeal to authority and blind faith in institutions filled with retarded ideologues to the brim.
It is pathetic how she uses the most blatant psychological coping mechanism by saying "well some fetuses die anyway" to justify killing one when she acknowledges that is the start of human life. Under the same logic it is ok to kill any person you come across because they may come to an early death tomorrow anyway.


Sociopathic lack of responsibility towards action and consequence. They want to act freely without thinking about the consequences of their actions and believe that there are enough artificial barriers that you can place between engaging in the act of reproduction and the event of reproduction itself when you are a young fertile person. It is the ruthless relativism of the value of a fetus, in which a mother may kill one out of convenience but nurture and raise another in a time where it's the most convenient for her, which shows that her convenience and logistic comfort are more important than the existence of the fetus that she would otherwise choose to bear, lacking the naturally self-sacrificial nature of a parent, which exposes the inability to gauge said logistic inconvenience in the bearing of a child BEFORE engaging in the mechanisms of reproduction.

It's Sophism of such a level that they think that shallow attempts at logical-positivism (from those that refuse to admit that science is not on anybody's side ever) such as claiming that a fetus is a clump of cells as if every living creature was not effectively just an overgrown clump of cells that form tissues that form organs that form systems that forms the organism, will justify their disregard towards the budding human life they interrupt.

Another thing is that the "my body my choice" narrative is entirely incorrect since the body of the fetus is external to this of its mother, and its genetic code may share her DNA but is an entirely original genetic code born from the junction between the mother's and father's, and even if somehow the fetus were entirely 100% his mother's DNA, they would still have an originally generated genetic code.

tl;dr: Irresponsible, inconsequent, sociopathic, relativist and ignorant

>>15292918
>generate more economic value by whoring than by pursuing stem
The modern world told you it values women in STEM and sexually liberated women, maybe it values one of those more than the other.

[Anonymous No.15293761]

>>15293749
I'm not reading dumb incel or jesus freak shit
Consciousness is the only thing that matters

[Anonymous No.15293765]

>>15293733
Cope tranny
COPE

[Anonymous No.15293771]

>>15293716
>you can't negate the need for system of qualification we're discussing
Yes. Yes I can. I'm rejecting your silly confused language games because they obfuscate what is actually a very clear-cut issue.

[Anonymous No.15293773]

>>15293735
But at the point it stops being a fetus and becomes a baby it has rights imo

[Anonymous No.15293776]

>>15293737
I mainly apply his ideas to modern mass idea, like insta/youtube/4chan/reddit and show how his ideas allow a better analysis of these things than anyone else

[Anonymous No.15293777]

>>15293744
you have answered, truly, none of my questions
congratulations, your autism pairs sublimely with your stupidity.
you say you want to establish a line, but do nothing but muddy the water when I give you one. I guess you've got a bright future in 4chan posting.

[Anonymous No.15293778]

>>15293765
Listen pal, just fuck a prost. You'll be less uptight.

[Anonymous No.15293779]

>>15293750
Not in the 90s, it was the rise in business crap that led to including management, econ and business crap in STEM degrees.

[Anonymous No.15293780]

>>15293714
The utility monster on page 41 of Anarchy, State and Utopia, a book that is awful and retarded in every single aspect apart from that one thought experiment.

[Anonymous No.15293787]

>>15293761
>I'm not reading
clearly.
stopped there; go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.15293790]

>>15293778
>prost
you just outed yourself as either underage, or horribly out of touch NEET by that use of "slang"

[Anonymous No.15293791]

>>15293660
their lack of a developed cortex for the majority of their time in the womb leads me to believe otherwise, but I admit I'm not personally a fetus. A reflex does not indicate self awareness, though i understand where you're coming from.

[Anonymous No.15293795]

>>15293773
weird how for liberals these conditional human rights works for fetuses but not for rapists, murderers or any other criminals
really makes you think...

[Anonymous No.15293798]

>>15293777
bruh what the fuck are you talking

[Anonymous No.15293805]

>>15293776
He fitted in well with the plastic trees and astroturf argument that started in the 70s.

[Anonymous No.15293809]

>>15293776
Bro how the fuck can you be doing youtube philosopy and be paid by an institution instead of a pittance by patreon-patrons?
Gratz, you made it.

[Anonymous No.15293810]

>>15293795
You're retarded. Those things have consciousness and fetuses don't.

[Anonymous No.15293811]

>>15293791
>A reflex does not indicate self awareness
but then why are we considering it a failure of conciousness test when it clearly doesn't yet have the faculties for it?
if a toddler can't articulate awareness of other (which is actually the case in early years) they aren't unconcscious, they are approriately conscious

[Anonymous No.15293812]

>>15293709
He probably works at a spep university or one friendly to continental philosophy. They seem pretty flexible in what faculty research on and actually do what's typically thought of as philosophy instead of what's typical in the Anglo world.

Maybe he'll confirm this is true

[Anonymous No.15293817]

>>15293810
>consciousness
not gonna tell you again to read the thread you worthless faggot

[Anonymous No.15293820]

This is awful.
<<<She's>>> dumb as fuck.

[Anonymous No.15293821]

>>15293776
What do you think about his late-ish works? I just finished Impossible Exchange and thought it was pretty good, I really liked all the stuff about aleatory/chance operations and how to beat a chess AI.

Also there are some batshit quotes in there:
"Rape is not forcing your pleasure on a woman but forcing a woman to have pleasure"

[Anonymous No.15293824]

>>15293810
yeah, they HAVE consciousness and still committed atrocities

why is consciousness such a big deal for you again? what does it confer that is inherently good?

[Anonymous No.15293826]

>>15293776
Based. Wish I could read your work anon.

[Anonymous No.15293843]

This thread is actually interesting and stimulating.

[Anonymous No.15293844]

>>15292721
Wait, so a child that is aborted looses its moral value because it was "going to be" aborted? But has moral value otherwise?

This is some high-level bullshit.

[Anonymous No.15293846]

>>15293817
I don't care about anything except consciousness and literally no argument will persuade me otherwise so there is no point in me reading that shit. Before you reply with "B-BUT HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHAT IS CONSCIOUS REEE!" Let me preemptively tell you I'm not going to engage with any fucktarded bad faith arguments like that and you have a room temperature IQ

[Anonymous No.15293851]

>>15293805
>>15293809
I published a paper that used a mix of semiotics/simulacra/denial of reversibility/circulation as it applies to different forms of memes ("High circulation content") across all those platforms.
I also teach a film studies class where people complained about my lack of queer cinema so I now make people watch Hellraiser.

>>15293821
Imo his late is his best. Check out The Transparency of Evil next. That quote is peak Baudrillard; it's not that you are literally forcing her to take pleasure, but that you (as a rapist) believe that your actions force her to take pleasure. The model of your actions, the perception of what you did becomes so separate from what the woman experienced that it becomes a separate hyperreality. I love his later works most of all. The Perfect Crime is his most opaque work, but also my favorite.

[Anonymous No.15293853]

>>15293846
>still not reading
Try again sweetie

[Anonymous No.15293860]

>>15293826
do a google search for the journal of baudrillard studies.

[Anonymous No.15293866]

>>15293824
I think that consciousness has inherent dignity as well as utility. If you want to argue about what should be done with conscious entities who commit atrocities thats a different thread kiddo.

[Anonymous No.15293874]

Holy shit, he actually commented

[Anonymous No.15293882]

>>15292878
There's a clear argument there. You're allowed to disagree with it, or you can continue being a cunt.

[Anonymous No.15293883]

>>15293866
>I think that consciousness has inherent dignity as well as utility.
How do you make the logical leap from this to consciousness determining whether or not a being has rights?

[Anonymous No.15293889]

>>15293866
My point is that consciousness is an excuse, kiddo. You have no means by which to adequately determine some thing with the brain development of a fetus to be correspondingly unconscious.

[Anonymous No.15293894]

>>15293874
>Christcuck calling other people stupid
Wew

[Anonymous No.15293909]

>>15292721

It's not about what she's saying, it's about how she says it.
Aborshun, doodoo (instead of due to). The inflection, at the end of every sentence.

[Anonymous No.15293926]

>>15292918
>They follow trends, prestige, and money, and so rarely act outside the box.
Thumb twiddling, while anything pushing the envelope is copywritten, mothballed and memory holed into private hands and research.
Does anyone really believe the state of space travel hasn't moved beyond upscaled German Rockets from WWII?

[Anonymous No.15293935]

>>15292918
>>15292972
>>15293405
Glory to the New Class

[Anonymous No.15293948]

>>15293860
Latest issue?

[Anonymous No.15293959]

>>15293752
>the fetus is external to this of its mother, and its genetic code may share her DNA but is an entirely original genetic code born from the junction between the mother's and father's, and even if somehow the fetus were entirely 100% his mother's DNA, they would still have an originally generated genetic code
This is radically under emphasized in counter to that -- cosmetic amputations are clearly aberrant [transitioning is unique by requiring the surgeon to share the delusion] and unjustifiable Hippocratically

[Anonymous No.15293960]

>>15293545
Fuck off Liz

[Anonymous No.15293976]

>>15293948
read them all anon

[Anonymous No.15293977]

>>15293125
underrated post

[Anonymous No.15293982]

Abortion should be mandatory unless it's proven that the couple want the kid, and can sustain it

It'd be the most effective way of diminishing poverty in the first world

[Anonymous No.15293992]

>>15293851
>The Transparency of Evil
Will do. I read the ecstasy of communication too and was less impressed with that one, but the general idea of obscenity (everything raw, immediate and exposed) resonated with me a lot and judging by the title I would imagine what you've recommended ties in to that, no?

[Anonymous No.15294014]

>>15293976
Okay I don't mind. I just see International Journal of Baudrillard Studies so I'll take a crack at it.

[Anonymous No.15294046]

anyone else find her voice fucking irritating?
>>15293089
her secret plan

[Anonymous No.15294058]

>>15292721
lmaooo
who gives a fuck if some roastie kills a leech in her womb?
it's her body ffs, kys cocksuker.
she's actually doing the little fucker a favor by cancelling his/her whole life of suffering.

[Anonymous No.15294060]

>>15292721
academics are only legitimate in certain fields. philosophy is not one of them

[Anonymous No.15294093]

>>15293992
Yeah EoC is a good read after you've read a large amount of his works, the best part is the chapter on Seduction, it's one of his better explanations of that concept. Most of his other texts that deal with seduction as an aside aren't as good. As for obscenity, another idea of it is that you're so zoomed in on the minute detail that you've lost the overall idea of everything around you. A good example of that is instagram, where you have this content that people look at for 2 seconds at most, yet still get a solid limbic response from it. That's obscenity in action. ToE ties in well to that. Screened Out is also a good choice. Obscenity pops up in his works after symbolic exchange and death. Check out the youtube channels Plastic Pills and Cuck Philosophy, they have good Baudrillard videos. Did Impossible Exchange end with a section on photography? His aphoristic/rambling style about photography is a good demonstration of his concepts applied.

>>15294014
I'm glad that I could give you something to read.

[Anonymous No.15294103]

>>15294058
>lul man who cares, let people do whatever they want
>lul man, life is le suffering, I wish I was ded
Spiritually cowardly princess, infantile vermin who reduces all of life to one experience, which is suffering. Fucking your mother is an experience, maybe we can release a philosophical platitude such as "Life is fuicking >>15294058's mom"

[Anonymous No.15294104]

>>15292721
Hahahahah wtf, I referenced Harman in my anti-natalism essay earlier this year. Fully expected she was an old white blonde woman with short hair for some reason

[Anonymous No.15294115]

>>15293655
Everything dies. The Jews are just maggots feasting on a corpse. The boogaloo starts when there's no more corpse left.

[Anonymous No.15294143]

>>15293707
Prove a system is better than utilitarianism without appealing to utilitarianism, protip: you can't

[Anonymous No.15294163]

>>15294143
Utility is contingent— utilitarianism for its own sake often prioritizes present utilities and prefails future ‘utility tests’

[Anonymous No.15294168]

>>15294103
>>lul man who cares, let people do whatever they want
it's her body so fuck you
>>lul man, life is le suffering, I wish I was ded
i really fucking enjoy making christcucks seeth. life's actually good mate g.

[Anonymous No.15294180]

>>15292721
ivy league schools are a meme at this point

[Anonymous No.15294181]

>>15294143
You can have happiness without taking any actions. Utilitarianism starts from the axiom that happiness is something obtained from acts.

[Anonymous No.15294213]

>>15294168
>it's her body so fuck you
The fetus' body is not her body, it is an entirely new body composed of 50% new DNA and 100% genetic code that does not equate to this of the mother. Her spit, shit and piss has her DNA in its entirety, which might as well make it considered her body, but a fetus is not.

>christcucks seeth
Being a tik tok normie fag with boutique depression has what to do with christcucks?

[Anonymous No.15294220]

>>15294143
My nigga, Benthamism was destroyed by Bentham's own successors, most notably Sidgwick.

[Anonymous No.15294267]

>The offence is what is improperly called the death of an infant, who has ceased to be, before knowing what existence is, a result of a nature not to give the slightest inquietude to the most timid imagination; and which can cause no regrets but to the very person who, through a sentiment of shame and pity, has refused to prolong a life begun under the auspices of misery.
Is there anything he can't do?

[Anonymous No.15294284]

>>15294213
How is a body growing in her bod not her body?

[Anonymous No.15294301]

>>15294284
The same way a dick inside your asshole is not part of your body

[Anonymous No.15294309]

>>15294301
Holy kek

[Anonymous No.15294317]

>>15294213
>The fetus' body is not her body, it is an entirely new body composed of 50% new DNA and 100% genetic code that does not equate to this of the mother. Her spit, shit and piss has her DNA in its entirety, which might as well make it considered her body, but a fetus is not.
it's a part of her body if you don't wanna accept this then go suck a dick about. abortion is the right of a women.

>Being a tik tok normie fag with boutique depression has what to do with christcucks?
keep projecting and seeth more chirstcuck

[Anonymous No.15294330]

>>15294317
Since my seed is inside of you, I have the right to push you down a flight of stairs.

[Anonymous No.15294354]

>>15294317
You can throw a hissy fit all you want, you have nothing but an emotional response, your sinapses were kidnapped the second you saw the thread and you had to act high and mighty with your pseudo-irony because you do not have true arguments and you had to mask your anger somehow. Your emotional response lead you to excercise induction, jump from a conclusion towards the arguments, but you do not even have an argument to begin with, merely a bunch of "fuck you" this and "fuck you" that, because all you have into you is the fee-fees hurt about the reality around you, that the fetus is not part of the body of its mother.

You speak about projection but you are the one that started talking about "life being suffering", there is no projection here other than your own, as you claim that someone is seething when you are clearly foaming at the mouth, but incapable to spit the foam out and speak coherently because you have nothing to say that I can't counter in infinite ways that show to you that your attempts are futile.

Emote more.

Princess.

[Anonymous No.15294358]

>it's not that your mother would have been doing something wrong if she aborted you
interdasting

[Anonymous No.15294383]

>>15294330
no my homosexual anon-kun i just took a shit.

[Anonymous No.15294389]

>>15294213
Most of one's body by weight consists of foreign DNA, dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.15294400]

>>15294301
KEK

[Anonymous No.15294406]

>>15294354
everything is a construction of ego. i don't a shit if some leech gets aborted.

[Anonymous No.15294415]

>>15294301
>>15294309
>>15294400
That's an argument FOR abortion, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15294428]

>>15294406
No one cares what you don't care about.

[Anonymous No.15294434]

>>15294415
The dude being penetrated in the argument is, for all intents and purposes, assumed a priori by his interlocutor, to ENJOY having his anus penetrated, thus, he would like to keep it in there for as long as possible, as opposed to removing it.

[Anonymous No.15294442]

>>15294434
Aquinas, is that you?

[Anonymous No.15294444]

>>15294428
yeah that's my point. no one cares what you think about abortion. it's the concern of the women because it's her body.

[Anonymous No.15294448]

>>15294389
If you acknowledge it is foreign DNA you acknowledge it is external to the body, you MONG

Besides bacteria and viruses and other external pieces of cells and DNA that you find within you are good for your health, and should thus be kept in place

[Anonymous No.15294456]

>>15294389
What the fuck are you talking about? If you mean bacteria, it's like 2-6 pounds you dumb midget. Nobody cares about killing bacteria anyway.

[Anonymous No.15294459]

>>15294444
>quadruple 4 quads
>death death death death

The universe is communicating anon

[Anonymous No.15294479]

>>15294444
I dunno man, something tells me that ethics is an equal opportunity endeavor.
I also get the feeling that the entire public has an interest in the laws they live under as well as any social and demographic consequences that may accrue as a result of those laws.

[Anonymous No.15294496]

>>15294434
>projecting this hard
Wew lad

[Anonymous No.15294497]

>if i get the abortion, the abortion will have been moral
>if i don't get the abortion, the abortion would have been immoral
Interesting.

[Anonymous No.15294510]

>>15294448
Are you literally retarded? Most of you body does not have your dna.

[Anonymous No.15294515]

>>15294497
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.15294519]

>>15294510
[citation needed]

[Anonymous No.15294523]

>>15294479
i mean majority of people support abortion. only braindead retards and christcucks have a problem with it.

[Anonymous No.15294536]

>>15294523
It is supported by the majority in these pockets of vehemently leftist cultures therefore it is moral.

[Anonymous No.15294538]

>>15294523
I mean majority of people support [thing I support]. Only [people I dislike] have a problem with it.
Fantastic argument. You have demonstrated in the most articulate and irrefutable manner that I have no right to engage in debate concerning the question of abortion. I stand in awe of your intellectual prowess. In which philosophy or rhetoric department do you work?

[Anonymous No.15294539]

>>15294523
I agree. America needs less black babies

[Anonymous No.15294540]

>>15292757
This.
I'm 18, but in yurotrash land we have hs till 18+ and this teacher hasnt read shit and is the dumbest cunt I know despite supposedly having a masters degree.

Asked her about propositions once and she answered by explaining predicates. Asked her about hegel, hasn't read him.
Hasn't read the Banality of Evil either.
Jewish teacher a few years back knew all that shit on top of his head.

I think men learn for knowledge while women simply follow curriculum. They will never unless particularly gifted read on their own initiative something dense. Women are retarded, but academia pander to retarded people.

[Anonymous No.15294566]

>>15294536
yeah because left is actually educated.

>>15294538
yeah you have no right because it's the concern of women. there is no harm in abortion. it's just a simple process.

[Anonymous No.15294571]

>>15292744
How is this blatant nepotism just accepted?

[Anonymous No.15294582]

>>15294536
how did you do that black bar thing anon

[Anonymous No.15294583]

>>15292721
You're projecting. She's explaining it to an A-lister she finds attractive and also trying to dumb it down, thus her voice wavers and she seems unintelligent. Her point's reasonable.

[Anonymous No.15294591]

>>15294582
select the text and press Ctrl+S

[Anonymous No.15294605]

>>15294571
The same way any other unfair system is accepted. Nobody talks about it. If you do, people will accuse you of being bitter/jealous/[insert mindless insult]. At best, you can expect to be dismissed with an absurd rationalization of the system.
And in the end, unless you're willing to revolt against the entire system and start a war within academia, or break the law, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous No.15294614]

>>15294583
Read the thread.

[Anonymous No.15294653]

>>15294614
The thread is full of retards who didn't understand the argument.

[Anonymous No.15294658]

>>15294653
explain it

[Anonymous No.15294674]

>>15294583
>disregards entire discussion, refusing to acclimate or adjust to the norms of the people already discussing it
>still wants to "have a voice" anyway, despite making no effort to fit in or meet the standards of the local community
>says something retarded, unjustified and off the cuff, expects to be immediately taken seriously anyway
>only does this as a pretext to talking about how "being retarded isn't her fault, because she was looking at a pretty boy~"

You broke my roastie detector. Women truly are worthless.

[Anonymous No.15294680]

Did she really just say it's okay to abort a fetus because some fetuses have different futures than other fetuses like being aborted?


>>15292739

No, literally just think about what she's saying logically. It's fucking retarded right off the bat.

[Anonymous No.15294683]

>>15294653
"If I'm going to kill it then it was going to die anyway so it's not immoral to kill it"

the ultimate cope

[Anonymous No.15294684]

>>15294163
So you are appealing to future utility? If it is truly of superior value then real Utilitarianism would opt in favor of it. We do not have absolute knowledge, so your point still falls under the philosophy of Utilitarianism
>>15294181
If you gain more utility from non-action, then Utilitarianism would dictate non-action
>>15294220
Would you care to present his actual position instead of simply name dropping?

[Anonymous No.15294691]

>>15294683
That's not the argument, moron.

[Anonymous No.15294704]

>>15294691
>doesn't even attempt to tell me what the argument is instead
>because it is that and you just can't deal with it

[Anonymous No.15294705]

>>15292721
look at dem milkers

[Anonymous No.15294713]

>>15294704
Watch the fucking video.

[Anonymous No.15294714]

I can't think of a larger non-argument than utility monsters. There is not a single thing wrong with them. Just let the monster eat the utility it clearly fucking needs it because that's the PREMISE OF THE THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.

[Anonymous No.15294733]

>>15294704
Think about who you're talking to. This person stated "other people don't get it." One person told her "so explain it, then." You then gave her an easier target, a provisional explanation. She repeats "you don't get it."

Do what the other person did. Tell her to explain herself or fuck off.

>>15294691
>>15294713
Kill yourself, tourist whore. You will never be wanted here and it will always irritate you to visit this website more than it makes you feel good. Get a boyfriend.

[Anonymous No.15294753]

>>15294733
Watch the video, dumbshit. It's quite clear.

[not that anon No.15294771]

>>15294753
hey, you're an abysmal cunt, you should slit your own throat, just FYI

[Anonymous No.15294928]

>>15294284
>How is a body growing in her bod not her body?
based retard

[Anonymous No.15295043]

>>15292962
Excellent way at clearing up that grabbled nonsense

[Anonymous No.15295056]

>>15293125
Best argument yet.

[Anonymous No.15295057]

it's not that her argument is wrong per se, it's just that she misses the point that the debate on abortion is about deciding the value of human life relative to other values such as freedom (not to bear a rapist's child) or comfort (to be a fucking thot).
t. still has a few neurons working

[Anonymous No.15295071]

>>15295057
(and not about making up convoluted arguments about some spooky moral imperative that you sum up as 'bad' to movie stars)

[Anonymous No.15295087]

>>15295057
oh ok i finished the video, the argument is also wrong per se, and also misses the point

[Anonymous No.15295116]

It's possible that maybe she's just a very bad communicator/poorly spoken? Someone in the youtube comment found her thesis on the same topic if anyone wants to try to figure out whether there's a coherent logic motivating the verbal diarrhea we all just experienced. The whole thing is available free here: https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/17645/54909207-MIT.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

[Anonymous No.15295136]

>>15295116
Possibly. Writing and speaking are two different skills.

[Anonymous No.15295153]

>>15292962
Strong.

[Anonymous No.15295175]

>>15295116
>Why Ethics Doesn't Even Exist, but Murdering Babies is Ethically The Rightest Thing You Can Do
>A Thesis by ((Elizabeth Harman))
>go to p. 3
Thesis Supervisor: Joshua Cohen
Title: Goldberg Professor of the Humanities

[Anonymous No.15295182]

>>15292874
holy-based zarathustra-kun...

[Anonymous No.15295222]

>>15293123
Daily reminder that the problem of abortion could be solved in single day if recreational sex stopped, but non-Christians are too butthurt about "oh no muh liberties you can use your reproductive system for hacking your dopamine receptors and get pleasure like a monkey without caring about the consequences"

[Anonymous No.15295332]

>>15293571
exactly. that's just relativism. if you don't set any boundaries at the end there are no limits.

[Anonymous No.15295395]

>>15292721
Murdering a thing with moral status is wrong.
An early fetus may or may not have moral status contingent on whether or not it has a future.
If the early fetus does not have a future it is not wrong to murder the early fetus.
If the early fetus does have a future it is wrong to murder the early fetus.

But to murder the early fetus is to deprive it of a future, which is to deprive it of moral status; which is to say the the act of murdering the early fetus is not wrong because you murdered the early fetus, depriving it of a future and thus of moral status.

Put another way: the future is unknown, and to condition the moral status of a thing on an unknown is to make the moral status of the thing unknown. So the only way the moral status of a thing is known is retrospectively (or conditioned on the past and NOT the future). So your moral status is contingent on whether or not your mother (in the present) has decided to murder (abort) you or not, since the present decision fixes the future and thus the retrospective (or past) moral status of the early fetus.

Her argument basically boils down to murdering a fetus is not wrong because you decided to murder the fetus. This honestly pisses me off. Rather than just state plainly what it is you want to say so its comprehensible, they engage in all this empty-headed blather that's disguised to make you think they're some kind of subtly about it, and you are forced to go through it piece by piece, only to end up with something that is almost pathetically stupid.

[Anonymous No.15295409]

>>15294301
good one

[Anonymous No.15295437]

>>15294434
the same for having sex. Yes, babies are a consequence of sex. Yes, you were validating the consequences of sex when you chose to have sex. Next time read the small print.

[Anonymous No.15295450]

>>15295395
should say "because you DECIDED to murder the early fetus, depriving it of a future and thus of moral status"

[Anonymous No.15295452]

>>15294591
thank you sir

[Anonymous No.15296311]

https://philosophy.princeton.edu/content/gilbert-harman

Mfw miscarriages aren't tragedies bc the baby would have never existed anyways

[Anonymous No.15296588]

>>15292721
>So why is she such a fucking retard?
will > intelligence