Zen master books

[Anonymous No.15288422]

Anyone here read books by zen masters?

Such as:
>Sayings of Zen Master Joshu
>Zen Teaching of Huang Po
There are many more.

Basically anyone here trying to find the way to enlightenment?

[Anonymous No.15288445]

>>15288422
Why do you assume that Zen, rather than any other school of Buddhism, is correct?

[Anonymous No.15288526]

>>15288422
>what did i think about it
fuck off

>>15288445
shut up bitch

[Anonymous No.15288569]

>>15288445
I don't think taking an interest in zen is an attack on the rest of Buddhism

[Anonymous No.15289329]

>>15288422
>Basically anyone here trying to find the way to enlightenment?

[Anonymous No.15289351]

Enlightenment is but the first step.

Now sit your ass down and look at the wall, son.

[Anonymous No.15289355]

>>15288445

Zen is just a lense to look at Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.15289369]

I don't think you'll find a book that can kick you in the chest.

[Anonymous No.15289371]

>>15288422
>Basically anyone here trying to find the way to enlightenment?
What do you mean by enlightenment and why do you think reading Zen sayings would be conductive to achieving it?

[Anonymous No.15289374]

>>15288422
>Zen Teaching of Huang Po
>Translated by John Blofeld

[Anonymous No.15289429]

>>15288445
fucking loser

[Anonymous No.15289591]

>>15288422
I've been reading Dogen's Shobogenzo since I'm particularly interested in Soto Zen

[Anonymous No.15289644]

>>15288422
Blue Cliff Record, Book of Serenity, Dahui’s OG Shobogenzo
>>15288445
Zen isn’t Buddhism.
>>15289591
Dogen invented his own religion, stole the title from his book from a Zen Master, and is well known for being unable to tie any of that with anything a Zen Master ever said.

[Anonymous No.15289688]

>>15289644
What is Buddhism?

[Anonymous No.15289704]

>>15289644
>zen master zen master zen master zen master zen master zen master zen master
Here we go, he's back!

[Anonymous No.15289727]

>>15289688
A fraudulent category invented by colonizers to lump in basically anything they didn’t care enough to investigate further.

There have been numerous attempts over the years to “reclaim” Buddhism as something rooted in a common doctrinal or authoritative basis.

None of those can include Zen due to its rejection “scriptural and doctrinal basis” and religious/spiritual authority more generally.

[Anonymous No.15290747]

>>15289727
That is funny because you've turned Blue Cliff Record, Book of Serenity, Dahui’s OG Shobogenzo etc into scriptures and religious/spiritual authorities.

Zen masters would slice you open.

[Anonymous No.15290987]

>>15288422
Bump

Thoughts on Zen Mind, Beginners Mind? Hows the Zazen treating you all? I dropped the ball yesterday and just got drunk and shitposted all fucking day.

[Anonymous No.15291088]

do you guys have digital copies of gateless gate and blue cliff record?

[Anonymous No.15291781]

>>15288445
>>15288526
?

>>15289329
no

>>15289351
>look at the wall, son
you're lost

>>15289371
I can't say what it is, I don't have the authority.
Because it's the closest thing to it I can have.

>>15289374
Translations are okay.

>>15289591
Dogen is a fraud.

>>15289727
What's your authority on all of this?

>>15290987
>Zen Mind, Beginners Mind
Great place to start.

>>15291088
Should be easy to find online

[Anonymous No.15292066]

>>15291781
>>Zen Mind, Beginners Mind
>Great place to start
You know Suzuki has a lot of respect for Dogen and quotes him as an authority regularly right?

[Anonymous No.15292092]

> staring at a wall until you go crazy is called being "enlightened"
lul

[Anonymous No.15292108]

Is Zen even alive in Japan anymore besides for the ceremonial part? It seems like no Japanese people care about religion anymore and its just western hippies that are into Zen.

Even in Dazai's and Mishima's novels it seems like none of the japanese cared about religion 70 years ago.

[Anonymous No.15292142]

I read the poems of Ryokan and found them quite moving. Poetry appears to me to be the best vehicle for Zen.

[Anonymous No.15292153]

>>15290987
Shunryu was a buddhist priest; Zen Masters reject “zazen” as a bogus religious practice that has nothing to do with enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.15292188]

>>15292066
I take that back. Made a mistake.

[Anonymous No.15292291]

>>15292108
>It seems like no Japanese people care about religion anymore
Doesn't seem true to me. Japan have about the same levels of atheism/agnosticism as many western European countries but while those European countries have a weekly attendance to churches at like 2% in Japan it is around 30% to shrines/temples.

[Anonymous No.15292303]

>>15292153
Source?

[Anonymous No.15292348]

>>15292303
For? Zazen specifically rejected?

See Linji, Huangbo, Yunmen, Bankei

[Anonymous No.15292447]

>>15292142
interesting, what'd you recommend from him? any particular collection?

[Anonymous No.15292555]

>>15292348
Seems to be plenty of zen Masters out there who also accept Zazen. Are you sure your not just being sectarian?

[Anonymous No.15292612]

>>15288422
Zen is a trash tradition, and its adherents are equally going to hell.

[Anonymous No.15292629]

>>15292612
>t. christcuck

[Anonymous No.15292640]

>>15292612
Unironically through prayer I realized the only way I could serve Jesus was through Zen practice. Not even kidding.

[Anonymous No.15292647]

>>15292640
That only strikes me as strange in the sense of it being a weird combination. Some Sufi traditions involve Emptiness, and the traditional Sunni criticism of this is that it's just Crypto-Buddhism, so I can totally see someone whose willing to go full-heretic mashing Zen and another religious tradition together.

[Anonymous No.15292655]

>>15292629
>>15292640
All monotheism, monism, and nondualism are trash. Jesus and Muhammad are both eating shit in hell. You will join them soon.

[Anonymous No.15292660]

>>15292655
What religion do you adhere to?

[Anonymous No.15292666]

Which one is the funniest?

[Anonymous No.15292703]

>>15292640
Christians should be killed for trying to follow other traditions alongside Christianity. If Christianity hadn't completely collapsed and no longer have any power they would be tearing down all Zen temples, killing all the monks and burning their poems. When the religion is weak, it subverts. Once it gains enough power it destroys. This is the cyclical nature of Christianity, and until it has been rooted out completely this will continue. It is in the process of being utterly destroyed so these sorts of ecumenical copes should be thoroughly exposed for what they are.

If Christians like you are successful in your subversion of Zen then this is what happens and therefore it is everyone duty to slaughter any Christian that attempts this.

[Anonymous No.15292714]

>>15292447

I read The Zen Poems of Ryokan, translated by Nobuyuki Yuasa

can't comment on other editions/translations

[Anonymous No.15292738]

>>15288422
Stop trying to be a hedonistic fuck and read the bible, be what you need to be and follow in the steps of Jesus.

[Anonymous No.15292773]

>>15292738
Jesus and Muhammad are in hell, and you will join them.

[Anonymous No.15292837]

>>15292714
oh nice, i'll check it out. thank you!!

>>15292738
calm down anon. some aspects of christianity are reconcilable with some aspects of zen

>>15292773
the fire of hell is the fire of god's love; technically jesus is there, yes but through his operations, energies :)
stop being so toxic though

[Anonymous No.15292884]

>>15292837
Every single Christian, Muslim, and Jew deserves to die without exception. I am being unironic. I would slaughter all of you, including your children and women, without a moment's hesitation.

[Anonymous No.15292930]

>>15292884
are you a buddhist?

[Anonymous No.15292931]

>>15292884
based but you're not a Zoroastrian you just larp as one

[Anonymous No.15292948]

>>15292931
Reading scriptures and understanding its dialectic is sufficient. Also, some aspects of Zoroastrianism have to be reformed while retaining its dualist spirit. Modern Parsi are not true to its roots and are incapable of disentangling superstition from the philosophy.

[Anonymous No.15293003]

>>15292348
Are you sure you're not talking about shikantaza specifically?

[Anonymous No.15293005]

>>15292647
Stranger still, in my foray into Zen Buddhism, I have found Christianity to be also a perfect expression of Buddhanature. It's quite difficult to articulate and I recognize some of the huge contradictions (maybe not as many as one would first think however), but I'm not bullshitting and am being honest here. I may be spiritually confused, but I walk a path and I don't feel alone at all.

[Anonymous No.15293012]

>>15292948
How do you deal with that supposedly 3/4th of the scriptures have been lost though?

[Anonymous No.15293037]

>>15293012
Gathas, Mardānfarrox's Škand gumānīg wizār, Bundashihn, and so forth are a enough to understand the basic metaphysical claim of radical dualism. I also write new scriptures.
Mardānfarrox did a good job critiquing monotheism and monism.

[Anonymous No.15293043]

>>15292738
How is Zen hedonistic?

[Anonymous No.15293099]

>>15293003
They reject meditation as a conduit to some higher truth or enlightenment the same way they reject all spiritual disciplines and “practices”.

I’m not “hip” to what Dogen buddhists call it besides zazen.

[Anonymous No.15293120]

>>15293099
Then what is their conduit to higher truth?

[Anonymous No.15293186]

>>15293120
They talk about “conduits to higher truth” as being chains people create to shackle and bind themselves.

If you’re interested in Zen, the OP mentioned a couple books by Zen Masters. There’s also Wumen’s Gateless Gate which is like the most famous instruction text written by a Zen Master like ever.

Linji and Dongshan both smack talk the obsession religious zealots have with putting themselves in stupors via. meditation and how, Enlightenment has nothing to do with lobotomizing yourself in such a manner.

[Anonymous No.15293277]

>>15293037
> I would slaughter all of you without a hesistation
> Jesus and Muhammad are in hell, and you will join them.
> I also write new scriptures.
have sex

[Anonymous No.15293305]

>>15292948
>>15293037
how can there be two absolutes

[Anonymous No.15293344]

>>15293186
What do you think zazen is? As far as I know, all Zen masters and sects practice some form of it. Shikantaza means "just sitting" and is the form practiced in Soto and has no object of meditation. How is meditation lobotomizing yourself? I know meditation is not something you should cling to as a path to enlightenment, as you should not be seeking enlightenment in the first place, but why should it not be practiced? Why read the the sayings of a Zen master but not practice zazen?

[Anonymous No.15293466]

>>15293344
“As far as you know” is dead wrong. No way around that, no need to mince words. You were lied to by a cult that had a vested interest in cultivating illiteracy, has banned texts written by Zen Masters, whose founder fraudulently lies about his life experiences, plagiarized other texts wholesale and fundamentally could not link his messianic claims and doctrine of “ritualized seated prayer-meditation is the dharma gate of bliss/enlightenment/true form of Buddha” to a single thing a single Zen Master ever said.

If you want to see just how spectacularly fraudulent the Dogen church is about its claims about Zen and its magic-meditation, why not read the Zen Masters they fraudulently advertise as: Soto aka CaoDong aka Caoshan & Dongshan.

These texts are translated and available for free online.

At this point, no one takes me up on that offer to see how Zen has nothing to do with Dogen & Hakuin’s respective cults.

[Anonymous No.15293537]

>>15293466
>no one takes me up on that offer to see how Zen has nothing to do with Dogen & Hakuin’s respective cults.
Because you never say what Zen is. Only what it isn't.

Provide us with the ontology, epistemology and ethics of the Zen masters. And yes I know your response will be *something something Zen masters are not interested....* but mostly posting this for the sake of everyone else in this thread.

[Anonymous No.15293606]

>>15293537
Dude...I provide like books on demand for people to investigate for themselves what Zen is all about and how it isn't any of the things (illiterate) people go around claiming it is unable to cite to them.

Since you asked so kindly, here's a bit from grade-A Buddhist ass kicker Shiqi Xinyue:

>An inconsequential monk, I ascend to this precious seat. Using empty space as a mouth, and the myriad forms as a tongue, I lecture on the Chapter on Lifespan of the Benevolent King. I am afraid the lecturing masters will hear of this and think I am infringing on their trade and stealing their business."

>"But for now, let me explain the title."

>Shiqi hit the meditation bench with the whisk and said:

>A snap of the fingers: Zen has no private tune

>All are sounds for a thousand autumns,

>for ten thousand years

[Anonymous No.15293641]

>>15293466
>ritualized seated prayer-meditation is the dharma gate of bliss/enlightenment/true form of Buddha
But doesn't Soto absolutely reject this? That Zazen with the purpose of gaining something isn't actual Zazen?

[Anonymous No.15293664]

>>15288445
actually the only correct school of buddhism is dark buddhism (zen buddhism + ayn rand)

[Anonymous No.15293673]

>>15293606
For all the supposed books you've read you still can't provide anything of worth. Reading what you've read seems to be akin to some sort of lobotomy. Or was that from before?

All you've gotten is the sense of pride that comes from thinking you're spiritually superior to the fake Zen people. Yes dude you've transcended all that nonsense.
>heh those guys just don't get it broo
>*bashes forehead into desk*
>Flowers on a mountaintop
>Dwindle in a spring

Provide us with the ontology, epistemology and ethics of the Zen masters.

[Anonymous No.15293729]

>>15293641
"Soto"(Dogen's misnomered religion) talks about "just sitting" as being the highest expression of the Buddha(Zen) Dharma and something that Bodhidharma and his lineage transmitted.

Soto aka. Caoshan & Dongshan reject that nonsense entirely.

Here's a case:
>Dongshan was asked by a monk, "Which of the three bodies expounds the teaching?" Dongshan said, "I am always keen on this." The monk later asked Caoshan, "What is the meaning of Dongshan’s saying ‘I am always keen on this’?" Caoshan said, "If you want my head, go ahead and chop it off and take it away." The monk also asked Xuefeng. Xuefeng immediately hit him with a staff and said, "I’ve been to Dongshan too."

Look at that! No zazen mirror polishing; what a (not) shocker.
>>15293673
Zen Masters aren't interested in teaching any of those things or giving people "anything of worth". Really, they actually spit in people's faces who demand such a thing from them. It's pretty insulting that you'd go around and demand things you pretend are valuable from someone who never claimed they could offer that.

Since you can't help but have a weird public meltdown when this is pointed out to you, why continue posting in this thread?

[Anonymous No.15293828]

>>15293729
Zen Masters aren't interested in giving anything of worth, and neither is zazen intended to give anything of worth. So why why read the sayings of the Zen Masters but not practice zazen?

[Anonymous No.15293855]

>>15293466
Can you give a source on any of those claims about Dogen and Soto Zen? How is shikantaza "ritualized seated prayer meditation," and what makes it magic? Have you ever practiced zazen? Do you even know what it is?

[Anonymous No.15293872]

>>15293828
"Zazen" is a cultivation-of-enlightenment practice involving sitting for long periods "like the Buddha totally did" taught by a cult that fraudulently claims a connection to Zen.

Zen Masters aren't interested. They make fun of these people as drooling zombies.

[Anonymous No.15293875]

>>15293664
Ayn Rand is dumb as fuck. Get the fuck outta here.

[Anonymous No.15293887]

>>15288422
Zen is just short thought-exercises created with a Buddhist lens. It's not necessarily profound unless you're a student of Buddhism proper.

[Anonymous No.15293905]

>>15293855
Dogen's book "Fukanzanengi" tells you the basic outline of his fraud about zazen and how it is supposed to be the "Dharma gate of bliss/enlightenment/whatever". It's a supernatural faith-based practice since it claims this is "how the Buddha sat" and that it is the secret teaching Zen Masters passed down to Dogen.

Contrast that with Soto(Caoshan, Dongshan; no relation to Dogen) or any other Zen Master you want to pick out of a hat and notice either them never once advocating such a practice as well as regularly ragging on people who believe meditation is a spiritual practice or that the Buddha has any fixed form.

"The Record of Tung-shan" is a source for Dongshan/Caoshan.

[Anonymous No.15293913]

>>15292108
Mate, Japanese people affiliate with whatever Buddhist sect is closest to their hometown. Those who are serious Buddhists have tons of different schools to choose from. Zen is just one small school that happens to have achieved prominence in the West.

[Anonymous No.15294055]

>>15293872
Zazen is not intended to cultivate enlightenment. Dogen never describes it as this. How does practicing zazen, with no goal in mind and with no attachment, just sitting in complete awareness, make you a drooling zombie?

[Anonymous No.15294105]

>>15293537
I can tell you everything you need to know: ontology, epistemology, and ethics of Zen and Zen masters. But as you might imagine, this knowledge is quite dangerous to just give out willy nilly. So in order to judge if you're worthy of such magnificent knowledge you must answer one very simple question. What is the sound of one hand?

[Anonymous No.15294149]

>>15288445
Are you baiting here, or actually serious?

[Anonymous No.15294152]

>>15294055
>Zazen is the ultimate practice. This is indeed the True Self. The Buddhadharma is not to be sought outside of this. Just practice good, do good for others, without thinking of making yourself known so that you may gain reward.
>Dogen

Why lie? Dogen talks about this practice as **the** highest, ultimate, and best thing you can do and something that Zen Masters all secretly taught and practiced.

Zen Masters, in contrast, don't teach that the "true self" is ultimately realized sitting in rapt in meditation anymore than it is flipping through the channels on TV or vomiting into a bucket after a night of drinking. They talk about people who go around preaching meditation as the practice of the Buddha as drooling idiots who will waste ten thousand years and not get enlightened.

Zombies, ghouls, eaters-of-other-peoples-boogers is a common meme among Zen Masters when commenting on how they are onlyable to say stuff like "sit down, shut up" or "meditation will help you penetrate Joshu's 'No!'" when confronted with questions about Zen.

[Anonymous No.15294218]

>>15294152
>Why lie? Dogen talks about this practice as **the** highest, ultimate, and best thing you can do and something that Zen Masters all secretly taught and practiced.
My experience in reading about Soto is that this is never claimed. In fact, I can only think of the opposite being claimed. Maybe posers in the West think this but I think you just have a hate boner right now.

[Anonymous No.15294296]

>>15294218
You've never read Soto(Caoshan, Dongshan); the fact that you fraudulently refer to the church started by Dogen by that name indicates your illiteracy on the subject.

Why would I hate people meditating themselves in a stupor and trying to sell people on some "magical mystical experience" they deluded themselves was somehow "Zen"? Literally, why? Bad gas after eating beans is more a cause for concern. They come forward, repeat some words they heard a priest tell them, and plead with me that these are the teachings of Soto(Caoshan, Dongshan) and then get schooled when I challenge them to produce any such examples from them.

Here's the entirety of my challenge:
What Zen Master said anything even remotely resembling what Dogen there said about anything, much less highly ritualized and choreographed "magic" meditation?
Since you established "Soto" as the criterea, why not go see what Dongshan & Caoshan and their eponymous lineage said about this?

[Anonymous No.15294367]

>>15294296
I have no idea where you are getting the idea that shikantaza is highly ritualized and choreographed magic. Where does Dogen ever say that practicing shikantaza leads to some sort of mystical experience?

[Anonymous No.15294457]

>>15294367
I literally just post a quote from him.
>"Zazen is the ultimate practice"
>"Just practice good, do good for others [...] that you may gain reward."
Zen Masters talk about this stuff as being rooted in exactly the same stuff as "propitiating mountain spirits with animal sacrifices" or "polish brick to make mirror" which is, to say, rooted in fantasy and perpetuated by the self delusion of people afraid to recognize their inherent freedom.
Here's a bit of Linji babbling on and on about this:
>Followers of the Way, there is no Buddha to be gained, and the Three Vehicles, the five natures, the teachings of the perfect and immediate enlightenment are all simply medicines to cure diseases of the moment. None have any true reality.
>Followers of the Way, there are certain bald-heads who turn all their efforts inward, seeking in this way to find some otherworldly truth. But they are completely mistaken! Seek the Buddha and you'll lose the Buddha. Seek the Way and you'll lose the Way. Seek the patriarchs and you'll lose the patriarchs.
>Fellow believers, don't mistake me! I don't care whether you understand the sutras and treatises.

[Anonymous No.15294561]

>>15294457
i have seen some qutoes from linji and he seems very interesting, does he believe in some kind of ''self-emptying'', negation of oneself in order to live patiently and compassionately? what would you recommend from him to me having in mind i dont care about buddhism

[Anonymous No.15294604]

>>15294561
No. "Self-emptying" isn't what he is interested. He also wasn't a very patient guy given he kicked people and punched them if they couldn't answer his questions.

Compassion? That's an interesting one. Zen Masters talk about compassion as conceiving of "no one needing salvation". Linji was a like an old grandmother in that regard.

If you're interested in what he had to say Burton Watson's "The Zen Teachings of Lin-chi" has a fair amount translated. He's also the kind of firecracker that gets posted on /r/zen to send Buddhists running to the hills like once a week at least.

[Anonymous No.15294924]

>>15294604
>He also wasn't a very patient guy given he kicked people and punched them if they couldn't answer his questions.
oh yeah lmao but by patiently i merely meant being able to deal with the ups and downs inherent in life, spiritual life, managing to remain focused while aware of the despondency looming over.

i'll check the book out, thanks

[Anonymous No.15295086]

>>15294105
*Thrusts one hand forward*

[Anonymous No.15295126]

>>15294105
It's the sound of my laughter thinking about niggas moving their hands in the air like retards

[Anonymous No.15295747]

>>15288422
There is no enlighenment. You expect to sit in zazen until some big wave of enlightenment comes and saves you from yourself. That will never happen. As long as you believe there is something for you to gain, you will suffer.

[Anonymous No.15296712]

>>15294924
>being able to deal with the ups and downs inherent in life, spiritual life, managing to remain focused while aware of the despondency looming over

Go read a self-help book or go see a psychologist.

Don't look for it in Zen.

[Anonymous No.15296726]

>>15295747
>saves you from yourself
No I didn't say that. But I'am trying to be on "the way"

[Anonymous No.15296752]

>>15295086
No, I'm afraid that is not it.
>>15295126
Ha, no I'm afraid that is not it either. Try again.

[Anonymous No.15296959]

>>15296726
why do you want to be on the way?

[Anonymous No.15297064]

>>15296959
To be see the real reality.

[Anonymous No.15297298]

"Outside of poetry there is no Zen"

[Anonymous No.15297417]

After his demise, Archbishop Jien appeared in someone's dream and declared:

>Studying exoteric and esoteric teachings has served no purpose. Only contemplation of emptiness and saying the nembutsu have stood me in good stead for the world beyond.

[Anonymous No.15297485]

My wish is to be wisdomless
-------- Myohen

[Anonymous No.15297531]

>>15288422
Zen is nothing, nothing to get, nothing to achieve, yet you still practice, you do your daily zazen, you get no where, you waste years, your whole life even. Zen is a stupid waste of time.
>buuut you have to pract---
Nope, shut up retard you ruined the one chance you had, but have fun LARPING, have fun with all those mystical experiences that come and go. You will get no where but further illusion

[Anonymous No.15297546]

>>15297531
>Zen is nothing, nothing to get, nothing to achieve, yet you still practice, you do your daily zazen, you get no where, you waste years, your whole life even
didn't know it was THIS based

[Anonymous No.15297553]

>>15297531
Why is Zen practice a waste of time? What could you do instead that isn't a waste of time?

[Anonymous No.15297571]

>>15297553
"I" want Zen, "I" want zazen, "I" want peace, "I" want enlightenment. The "I" is still there cementing itself, anything "you" do to free yourself is only adding momentum, "you" are the impediment. Give up

[Anonymous No.15297666]

>>15297485
The only actual Zen post in the whole thread.

[Anonymous No.15297682]

>>15297064
Any knowledge of real reality is impermanent. If you want mystical experiences, go do psychedelics. But all that will cause is more attachment. As long as you believe you need something more than you already have, you suffer.

[Anonymous No.15297715]

>>15297064
>real reality
Oh my dear dear blossom festival child. There is no real reality.

[Anonymous No.15297750]

>>15297485
>Myohen
Who is this dude? Sounds like a dope person.

>>15297682
I understand it's a slippery slope saying "I" want to become enlightened. I would like to reach the ranks of bhuddha, Foyan, Baizhang, Bodhidharma, and all the others zen masters. I'd like to see what they saw.

I don't want mystical experiences. I don't peace from zen.

Why Zen masters? Well one strong point is almost all the zen masters didn't gain anything from promoting zen. They didn't get power, wealth or pussy.. Unlike all the other old and new religions.

The zen masters came from all sorts of lifestyles. They were regular dudes.
>Woman who was married
>a regular "Layman" pang
>Zen master who visited brothels everyday and drank


My dream is to follow whatever "the way" is. To become "enlightened" whatever that is. To see the world with the eyes of the bhuddha.

I can't say much else because I'am far far far away from the path. Zen masters got a hold on me and I can't shake it off. So am trying to learn and follow the path as much as I can. Am not sure where it will lead. Maybe nowhere...

[Anonymous No.15297754]

>>15297715
>There is no real reality.
How did you know that?

[Anonymous No.15297765]

>>15292738
Christcucks are without a doubt the dumbest people on this board by a very long shot. Sometimes I believe you guys are beeing paid by the Saudis to make Christianity look like shit.

[Anonymous No.15297799]

>>15297765
>Sometimes I believe you guys are beeing paid by the Saudis to make Christianity look like shit.

You really think this? You really think with the money the saudis have that they will pay some dudes to write in 4chan to make Christianity look bad? Instead of actually influencing large media corporations with the money they have?

[Anonymous No.15297805]

>>15297754
Perception. And the Pali Canon said so. I checked it out. Yep, it's all illusory.

[Anonymous No.15297826]

>>15297805
It is only illusory if we're not enlightened.

[Anonymous No.15297856]

>>15297826
We are not enlightened. I assure you. And thus all we have is the perceptions of illusions.

[Anonymous No.15297865]

>>15297750
You have this idea of enlightenment or the way that you are chasing. You believe you need to find it, and you suffer in a small way for it. The only reason you need these things is because you tell yourself you need them. If you stopped needing them, there would be peace because you are no longer searching. These things don't exist, they are all just thoughts. It's as if you said I have lost my head, help me find it.

[Anonymous No.15297928]

>>15297750
zen is not buddhism

[Anonymous No.15297961]

>>15288445
>Why do you assume that Zen, rather than any other school of Buddhism, is correct?
what a stupid fucking question lol

[Anonymous No.15298002]

>>15297928
Zen could be a fucking carrot. Zen could be a pile of horse shit. Zen could be a fly on that horse shit. Zen could, for some, be Buddhism. You need to unfuck yourself with trying to put Zen in your little box that you can define.

[Anonymous No.15298038]

>>15298002
they cling to form, hopeless cases

[Anonymous No.15298060]

>...fearless bodhisattvas should get rid of all perceptions in giving birth to the thought of unexcelled, perfect enlightenment. They should not give birth to a thought attached to a sight, nor should they give birth to a thought attached to a sound, a smell, a taste, a touch, or a dharma. They should not give birth to a thought attached to a dharma, nor should they give birth to a thought attached to no dharma. They should not give birth to a thought attached to anything

[Anonymous No.15298072]

>>15297928
Go back to r/Zen

[Anonymous No.15298087]

>>15297928
Zen isn't not Buddhism

[Anonymous No.15298107]

>>15297750
>Myohen
>Who is this dude? Sounds like a dope person.

Wandering monk from medieval Japan

[Anonymous No.15298194]

>>15297750
Who's the guy who drank and went to brothels?

[Anonymous No.15298220]

>>15291781
>>15293664
>>15294149
>>15297961
Did any of you bother to investigate the other schools of Japanese Buddhism before settling on Zen, or did you simply pick it because it's the most well-known form of Buddhism in the West?

[Anonymous No.15298688]

>>15298194
'Ikkyu' probably. Likely wasn't a Zen Master since all we've got his poems from him talking about his wiener and his alcoholism.
There's this crazy Zen Master named Zhenzhou Puhua that people sometimes confuse him with.
Here's an excerpt:
>When Banzan (Panshan) was about to die, he asked his monks to bring him his portrait, but he was not satisfied with any of them. At that time Fuke (Puhua) had one.
>Banzan said, "Why don't you show it to me then?" Fuke turned a somersault and went out.
>Banzan said, "This lunatic will pervert the true Way from now on."

[Anonymous No.15298819]

>>15294152
>>15294296
>>15294457


hello ewk

[Anonymous No.15298858]

>>15298819
Is that the boogeyman that keeps you afraid of disturbing your church induced stupor by telling you to read a book?

[Anonymous No.15298892]

>>15296712
is this what zen turns you into?

[Anonymous No.15298982]

>Ancient sages left their works behind, not to let us know about themselves, but to help us understand our own stamp. Had we wisdom deep enough to know ourselves single-handed, No benefits would result from the works of ancient saints.

>A wise man learns the mystery of his existence in a flash and climbs in a leap beyond the world of hollow phenomena, Whereas a foolish man holds wilfully to facts and details, To drown himself in subtle differences of words and lines.

[Anonymous No.15299033]

>>15298982
Ryokan wasn't a Zen Master.

He was an proto-typical Buddhist hermit of rural Japan.

[Anonymous No.15299071]

>>15299033
>The foolish man holds wilfully to facts and details, To drown himself in subtle differences of words and lines

He was talking about (you)

[Anonymous No.15299096]

>>Look at the preacher, interpreting passages of holy sutras. Such is his fluency, a river runs not so fast as his words. On the Five Mystical Stages and the Eight Blissful Methods he can comment so well, no one can exceed him in eloquence. He recognizes himself as a learned man, wise in everything, And the world raises no objection to this self-borne title. Nonetheless, search him for the secret mystery of our life. Not a word of just reply will leak out of his silent mouth.

[Anonymous No.15299118]

>>15299071
Yeah, I'm not interested in what some Buddhist priest tells me about how I should "just let go of facts and swallow his stinking BS".

Scientologists, Young Earth creationists, and that wacko trying to sell me CBD oil do the same thing. Not particularly novel or insightful; since Zen Masters make fun of these people on the daily...why post them in this thread?

[Anonymous No.15299124]

>>15297531
>you get no where, you waste years
anon... the aim of zen is to remove this poisonous thinking so you can stop suffering so you can enjoy the world for what it is!

[Anonymous No.15299145]

>>15299118
>Zen master is a somewhat vague English term that arose in the first half of the 20th century

Obsessed with names and categories, clinging desperately to form...a hopeless case.

[Anonymous No.15299152]

>>15298220
>or did you simply pick it because it's the most well-known form of Buddhism in the West
I know its hard to not be an edgy faggot who can't do anything mainstream. But, from my personal experience, your ego is stopping you
enjoying zen buddhism. Just let go with it brotha :)

[Anonymous No.15299181]

>>15298982
>>15299096
thank you for posting ryokan, anon

[Anonymous No.15299185]

>>15299145
Nope, try reading, you know, any book any Zen Master wrote instead of bogus Wikipedia headliners based on the claims of an aggressively proselytizing Japanese cult which openly cultivates illiteracy in its followers.
Newsflash: Troll can't quote Linji, Dongshan, Bodhidharma or any Zen Master affirming his "facts are obstructions" or "Zen Masters aren't real" BS.

[Anonymous No.15299273]

>Followers of the Way, you seize upon words from the mouths of those old masters and take them to be the true Way. You think, ‘These good teachers are wonderful, and I, simple-minded fellow that I am, don’t dare measure such old worthies.’ Blind idiots! You go through your entire life holding such views, betraying your own two eyes.

[Anonymous No.15299291]

>>15299185
>MANY roads lead to the Path, but basically there are only two: reason and practice. To enter by reason means to realize the essence through instruction and to believe that all living things share the same true nature, which isn’t apparent because it’s shrouded by sensation and delusion. Those who turn from delusion back to reality, who meditate on walls, the absence of self and other, the oneness of mortal and sage, and who remain unmoved even by scriptures are in complete and unspoken agreement with reason. Without moving, without effort, they enter, we say, by reason.
There, I did it.
Now stop talking shit about Zazen.

[Anonymous No.15299319]

>>15298220
Could you enlighten us on some of the differences? My pleb tier efforts thus far seem to indicate that there's more or less three broad groups in Japan
>Zen and dude-it's-not-Zen-but-might-as-well-be
>Shingon and other assorted esoteric schools
>An amorphous group that is basically LMFAO DUDE JUST PRAY TO THE BUDDHA FOR A CAR
Show me the way, anon.

[Anonymous No.15299336]

If you got it, you just KNOW you’ve got it. You don’t have to debate over a bunch of theological traditions, although reading in various theological traditions can be a great supplement to or enjoyable addition to your own state.

I’m not trying to find the way to enlightenment, I AM enlightenment. I am the way, the truth and the life.

Soham, “I am he”. — Hindu Sanskrit mantra

“All is He” (Ibn Arabi, 13th c Sufi theologian).

“The eye with which I see God is the eye with which God sees me” - (Meister Eckhart, 13th c. Catholic theologian)

[Anonymous No.15299396]

so much ego in a zen thread, how can it be?

[Anonymous No.15299427]

>>15299291
Note how you quoted, out of any semblance of a context, a likely fraudulent text not a single Zen Master ever cites or references to...what a shocker, right?

They do talk plenty about "zazen" as imagined by followers of Dogen:
>Master Zhenjing said to an assembly, The Buddha Dharma does not go along with human sentiments. Elders everywhere talk big, all saying, ‘I know how to meditate, I know the Way!’ But tell me, do they understand or not? For no reason they sit in pits of crap fooling spirits and ghosts. When people are like this, what crime is there is killing them by the thousands and feeding them to the dogs? There is also a kind of Chan follower who is charmed by those foxes, even with eyes open, not even realizing it themselves. They wouldn’t object even if they poured piss over their heads. You are all individuals; why should you accept this kind of treatment? How should you be yourself?
"No crime in killing the thousands of meditation worshipers and feeding them to the dogs."
Zhenjing is comparatively kinder in his treatment than other Zen Masters.
>>15299319
Why not, instead of soliciting doctrines from internet strangers for you to suck on, see what Zen Masters had to say for themselves?

[Anonymous No.15299447]

>>15299319
Jesus Haiku Loving Christ man. All that shit will just bog you down. You don't need any of it. Have you gained nothing from your study? You are more likely to find "The Way" staring at your shoelaces than obsessing about schools and ways and enlightenment. This whole fucking thread man. LOOK AT YOUR GOD DAMNED SHOES!

[Anonymous No.15299522]

>>15299152
>I know its hard to not be an edgy faggot who can't do anything mainstream. But, from my personal experience, your ego is stopping you
that's hinduism

[Anonymous No.15299556]

>>15288422
discord . gg/ukt4Reg

[Anonymous No.15299627]

>>15298220
My first interest was Therevada. Still interested too.

[Anonymous No.15299753]

>>15299124
Me on the bottom left

[Anonymous No.15299791]

>>15297531
>Nope, shut up retard you ruined the one chance you had
That doesn't sound like a very Buddhist perspective.

[Anonymous No.15299819]

>>15299427
>>15299427
I'm curious. What is zen practice then? I'd like to understand your perspective

[Anonymous No.15299823]

>>15299753
You know that Pepe just grabs that little frog and violently fucks it to death. You just know. See you in the next spin.

[Anonymous No.15299824]

>>15293664
I just cronged so hard my dick splonged

[Anonymous No.15299889]

>>15299819
Not departing from ordinary activities, not tying oneself to Buddhas.
Here's Yunmen's rant:
>All of you who come and go for no reason: What are you looking for in here? I only know how to eat and drink and shit. What else would I be good for?
>You're making pilgrimages all over the place, studying zen and asking about the way. Let me ask you: What have you managed to learn in all those places? Try presenting that!
>Again, he said: "In the meantime, you cheat the Master in your own house. Is that all right? When you manage to find a little slime on my ass, you lick it off, take it to be your own self, and say: 'I understand Zen, I understand the way!' Even if you manage to read the whole Buddhist canon -- so what?!
Going around looking for something to "practice" to become Buddha/enlightened/whatever is just cheating the Master in your own house. Setting up doctrines based on **anyone's** written word and saying that this amounts to something is just licking slime off their ass.

[Anonymous No.15299927]

>>15299889
And if you have ate, and if you have slept and shat, and even brushed the dust off your house, and do not need to do so again for some time, do you not just sit?

[Anonymous No.15299932]

>>15299889
This guy did the reading.

[Anonymous No.15299944]

>>15288422
Doesn't "master" presuppose an initiation into? Like would I read the Summa Theologica to enhance my understanding of God before reading the Bible?

[Anonymous No.15299953]

>>15299927
No, you walk to the next town to get your dongle fonggled by the blind prostitute who lives in a shed.

[Anonymous No.15300018]

>>15299927
Sitting is over-rated and generally unhealthy. Try somersaults or crouching like a tiger.

[Anonymous No.15300034]

>>15300018
I thought that said "shitting" at first, implying that you had transcended physical limitations to the point that you could just absorb it back into your body.

[Anonymous No.15300097]

>>15300034
DUDE! That reminds me.
>But now if you seek Buddha, seek enlightenment, or seek anything existent, nonexistent, or otherwise, this is called carrying excrement in, not carrying excrement out. Now if you create an idea of Buddha, interpretation of Buddha, as long as there is anything envisioned, anything sought, it's all called the excrement of fabricated conceptualization. It's also called rough speech, and it is called dead words.
Buddhists are constipated and (literally) anal-retentive according to Baizhang. Furiously seeking Buddha and enlightenment is just voluntarily avoiding a toilet and squeezing those butt muscles together for no reason at all.

[Anonymous No.15300117]

>>15299944
Checked

[Anonymous No.15300287]

>>15299522
>hinduism
i dont poop on street

[Anonymous No.15300326]

https://www.reddit.com/user/ewk/
turns out this is the zen masters guy

[Anonymous No.15300365]

>>15300097
>Buddhists are constipated and (literally) anal-retentive according to Baizhang
that must be why so many of them on /lit/ are irritable, passive-aggressive and hypersenstivie wrecks

[Anonymous No.15300709]

>>15296712
What's the point of zen then?

[Anonymous No.15300781]

all I've gathered from this thread is that zen is kinda cringe

[Anonymous No.15300787]

>>15300709
Holy cherry blossom cunt. There is no point. That's the point. You either zen or you can't.

[Anonymous No.15300794]

>>15300781
It's the meme Lord school of Buddhism yes.

[Anonymous No.15300817]

>>15300787
Aren't we all in zen whether we know it or not? Why even bother talking about it?

[Anonymous No.15300840]

[Anonymous No.15301066]

>A monk asked, "What about it when I seek to be Buddha?'
>The Master said, "What a tremendous waste of energy"
>The monk said, "What about it when I'm not wasting any energy?"
>The Master said, "In that case, you are Buddha"

>Without relying on words and writings,
>A special transmission outside the scriptures;
>Pointing directly to the human mind,
>See your own nature and become Buddha

[Anonymous No.15301484]

>>15300817
By all means talk about it if you feel compelled. But I don't see how that gets you where you want to go when you could be dipping your dick in a honey sweet, watching space balls, eating succulent meal, laughing at your own jokes, and throwing pie in gods cosmic face.

[Anonymous No.15301785]

>>15299336
>“The eye with which I see God is the eye with which God sees me”
FIREEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! Damn can't wait to reach that!

>>15300709
To become enlightened and to see the true reality.
Damn it! I can't say that. Please next time don't ask this question.

[Anonymous No.15302230]

>>15300781
Yeah, basically. Complete waste of time, turns you into a petulant redditor lol.

[Anonymous No.15302581]

I have read a bit here and there, but reading should be secondary to practice. I try to recite nianfo daily as well as Silent Illumination in the style of the Chan lineage.