The morality of bodybuilding

[Anonymous No.15285360]

Is it wrong for a good man to sexualize his physique? To change his natural body with the intent of appearing more desirable? Will this just feed into narcissism? At the gym I often see guys who stare at themselves in the mirror in a way that seems strange. I am really starting to wonder that I am perverting my body because of my own ego. I don’t dislike my body but I want it to be better and I worry that desire is the same desire behind greed and the general unsatisfactoriness that is common now.

[Anonymous No.15285367]

it's gay, bodybuilding is for gay men that like to fuck and get fucked by other gay men

[Anonymous No.15285370]

>>15285360
Not more wrong than browsing /lit/ instead of sleeping well.

[Anonymous No.15285372]

>>15285360
Focus on the utility of your body. Otherwise you are a faggy pedo.

[Anonymous No.15285489]

Make yourself desirable to whom? If it's girls you're after, being swole isn't really that great. Most girls like "fit" guys, but their idea of fit is quite basic compared to your average autistic /fitlit/izen. Now if it's men you're after, then I suggest you join the nearest YMCA and find a cute buddy to inject steroids and other things into your ass in the locker room.

[Anonymous No.15285502]

>>15285360
just cause this is a relevant thread:

I;m looking for good sources on greek wieghtlifting and fitness, everything i find just mentions the existence of gymnasium and then focuses only on the fact that they were naked. I want to know what they lifted

[Anonymous No.15285649]

>>15285502
this isn’t what you asked for but eugene sandow who many consider the first ‘body builder’ modeled himself after the greek statues. he used dumbbells and barbells which are very efficient for developing muscles. why do you want to know what the greeks used? for personal use or historical knowledge?

[Anonymous No.15285667]

>>15285649
I just love the greeks

[Anonymous No.15285715]

>>15285667
hmm im glad i didn’t start with them :P

[Anonymous No.15285855]

>>15285489
Desirable wasn’t the right word. I was thinking about making my physique be a display of male beauty, because I appreciate male beauty myself and I figure others would as well.. but even saying that sounds narcissistic

[Anonymous No.15285923]

>>15285360
it's gay and shallow in the gymrat sense. better in others.

[Anonymous No.15286783]

>>15285360
Is it any crazier than anything else people do? Racing cars at 200+mph? Fighting in the ring? Getting blasted drunk on a daily basis? It is only one example of taking something to the extreme. What one calls vainglory another calls a desire to stand out among their peers. And what's with narcissism as a negative for that matter at all? It is the same as the Greek "thumos," or the "Anerkennung" of Hegel. Says Jonathan Shay in Odysseus in America, quoting Francis Fukuyama: "modern democracies often fail to recognize honor and the desire for recognition as part of the universal and normal makeup of humans, noticing it only in its pathological and deformed states." We live in a world very different from our biological ancestors. Genetically we are driven to the same social end. But there is not the release felt when killing prey, or the recognition of being a provider for your community. So instead the ego drives us to do all manner of odd things, yet that is no reason to discount that drive or its manifestations outright. Individuals are free to do as they please. It doesn't necessarily make it a negative. It also doesn't mean you should do it if you don't want to. No one is forcing you to go skydiving.

[Anonymous No.15286870]

>>15285502
Cows. They lifted cows.
>>15285855
Most of the argument comes from presuppositions of your inherent value system and virtues. It is also based on what your workout goals are. But we can look to Aristotle's ethics to find balance in activities, as it is an easier analysis for the more material immediacy of the emotions you are grappling with. Are you lifting for health, for accomplishment, beauty for self, or beauty for others? Lifting for health is a generally go idea, many espouse the virtue of keeping a healthy body from working out. Do you workout for accomplishment, as a powerlifter in competition? Do you fin satisfaction from the ability to lift 5lb more pounds on your squat? This should be a good use of goals to continue working out for health while motivating yourself with more short term goals, but when these are pushed to extremes, why would the obsession of more weight truly satisfy you? If you lift for beauty of self, in moderation it can too have positive mental health effects, confidence in ones body can lead to many good things when one feels at one with their own body. One who hates their skinny or overweight body is an ineffective actor in life, but this can quickly turn into narcissism. It is not the appreciation from others you seek anymore, it is the same chase as one who seeks heavier weight, they chase the dragon they can never obtain, if this is the case, again, why does this obsess in your mind when there is a world of things to do beyond it? The same line of reasoning can be applied to beauty for others. It is a helpful tool in a modern society to be beautiful and sculpted. It can help in work and in finding a person to love and to make love to. But just as all things, this can become crippling when ones appearance perceived by others becomes the focus of obsession, at a certain point you are being self aware of things others are not. I am not going to speak to the fundamental query of whether working out is an activity worth pursuing or anything like that. We all gonna make it brah.

[Anonymous No.15286896]

>>15285360
Depends on why you do it. I'd disagree it's narcissistic do it so you look more desirable. We do a lot of things do appear good to other people, we shower, we shave, we put on clean and nice clothes.

Personally, I do it because I like the sensation of lifting heavy things, I like the rush of pleasure after a long run. Not a bad vice if you ask me.

[Anonymous No.15287092]

>>15285360
Aesthetic physiques are a correlated but imperfect indicator of capability. Lifting to increase your strength and endurance will make you more capable of good; this is why we find athletic builds aesthetic in the first place. However, spiraling into looksmaxing to try and game the system is when the narcissism truly enters.

[Anonymous No.15287132]

taking exogenous hormones and parading your naked, oil body for male beauty pageants is not virtuous nor good. doing exercise to better yourself physically and mentally for the greater good seems a more everlasting route

[Anonymous No.15287135]

>>15285360
>To change his natural body with the intent of appearing more desirable?
What? Are you claiming that using your body is unnatural? Or are you saying that people should only change their bodies to become fat and unusable?

[Anonymous No.15287154]

>>15285360
Bodybuilding is incredibly bad for your mental health, however general fitness with strength training is one of the most rewarding things one can do.

[Anonymous No.15288051]

>>15285367
Based
(Not you, the bodybuilders)

[Anonymous No.15288128]

[Anonymous No.15288167]

>>15285360
bodybuilders look into the mirror because visualisation aids muscle activation and they can better understand their weaknesses

[Anonymous No.15288173]

>>15287132
sounds lame

[Anonymous No.15288397]

>>15285360
Y'all really debating the worth of refining your physical form?
There's no fucking debate. Everyone knows the truth. You love the idea of having a perfect body. Socrates - one of the most extreme and anti-materialistic rationalists in history - believed in perfecting the body.
Self actualization is vigor and harmony in all places, and pushing all limits to reach greater heights.
It's a life-denying copout to treat it as if it's insignificant.

[Anonymous No.15288458]

>>15285360
Pride is not evil
Most positive male archetypes are strong enough to guarantee independence, and a lot are strong enough to protect/compensate for others as well
The body is a means; use it towards a noble end rather than a materialist one

[Anonymous No.15288596]

>>15285360
You lift to become stronger and protect your nation

[Anonymous No.15289007]

>>15285360
>ego is bad
all things in their right measure

[Anonymous No.15289290]

>>15285855
>I figure others would as well.
Going from skinnyfat to ottermode will give you a +1/10 increase to women and +3/10 increase to faggots. Anything beyond that will decrease your attractiveness back to skinnyfat levels to women but make faggots actively chase you.

[Anonymous No.15289299]

>>15285360

THE BODY IS THE PHENOMENAL FORM OF THE WILL TO LIVE

SCHOPENHAUER_GROYPER.JPG

[Anonymous No.15289364]

>>15285360

The essence of masculine physicality is FUNCTION.

The essence of feminine physicality is FORM.

This is because all women, within reasonable parameters, can bear children, so they don't have to sweat to be adequate, functionally. They get it for nothing. Their job is to appeal to men and inspire them to kill mammoths, keep the fire going, and invade Poland. It's the men's job to DO those things.

Men do the desiring; women do the "being desired".

Man is Subject. Woman is Object.

When it comes to your body, it's masculine to care about it IF YOUR CONCERN IS FUNCTIONAL. Being strong and healthy is a good thing BECAUSE IT LETS YOU DO STUFF. If you're getting bullied at school and you go to the gym and get strong so you can beat the crap out of your bully, that's masculine.

But when it goes too far and becomes just about appearance, then it's become feminine. It's become RAMPANT FAGGOTRY.

Most modern bodybuilding is RAMPANT FAGGOTRY because it's not functional. These men aren't actually ideally-suited to get shit done. They couldn't work 16-hour-days on a farm or fight a successful campaign against insurgents in Rhodesia despite being outnumbered a hundred to one. They're just posturing twerps.

Learn the difference.

[Anonymous No.15289382]

>>15285360
>Is it wrong for a good man to sexualize his physique?
yes
>To change his natural body with the intent of appearing more desirable?
also yes, lol
>Will this just feed into narcissism?
gay but yeah

>At the gym I often see guys who stare at themselves in the mirror in a way that seems strange. I am really starting to wonder that I am perverting my body because of my own ego. I don’t dislike my body but I want it to be better and I worry that desire is the same desire behind greed and the general unsatisfactoriness that is
JUST LOVE YOURSELF ANON. FUCK YOURSELF. FUCK THE BITCH THAT YOU ARE BY MATCHING WITH A BITCH ON TINDER.

[Anonymous No.15289386]

>>15289364
>Man is Subject. Woman is Object.
i wish. this is dead now. now everybody sexually objectifies everything now. thanks, liberal democracy

[Anonymous No.15289427]

Seneca was against it, describing it as a womanly behavior. There's exercising and training for the sake of performance and health and then there's faggotry. There's two types of people in the gym, those who do facepulls and those who don't.

[Anonymous No.15289443]

>>15285502
Haven't read it yet but probably what you're looking for
http://judo4mma.com/greekwrestling/ancient%20greek%20submission%20wrestling.pdf

[Anonymous No.15289459]

>>15289364
Top kek at the RAMPANT FAGGOTRY with all caps

Tbh after lifting for 4 years now, I can tell you that anyone with serious gains has long given up on the prospect of altering his appearance to be noticed by women. It becomes a game of numbers, of lifting the most, of being the most badass, of smashing your PRs. This includes dudes that take roids.

As in every community, there's definitely some weirdos, and some with unhealthy motivations, but they are far from being the norm.

[Anonymous No.15289464]

To quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 2289:

> If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for it's sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships.

So, yeah it's ok, especially if you're actually doing manual work, but within reason.

[Anonymous No.15289604]

>>15289459

I agree that modern Western society is woefully lacking in productive outlets for healthy masculinity, so bodybuilding has sort of become one. In a perfect world, you go to the gym to get fit *to prepare yourself for other challenges*, but the "other challenges" are missing now, so the preparation itself has to become the goal.

[Anonymous No.15290617]

>>15289427
fuck you ignoramus facepulls are great for shoulder health i'm not some queer bodybuilder.

[Anonymous No.15290671]

>>15290617
That's the point, dipshit.

[Anonymous No.15291572]

>>15289464
>Call me a pedophile to my face and see what happens

[Anonymous No.15291906]

>>15289290
Wrong, many woman actively chase men who have gone beyond ottermode. Especially large thigh and hip women.

[Anonymous No.15293130]

>>15285360
The appropriate motivation for strength is to hunt and kill game and rivals and to rape women if they do not submit to you.

[Anonymous No.15293151]

>>15289459
Interesting than rather than getting strong to smash each other into bits, it becomes like a weird poker game where the size of your bicep is the size of your bet.

[Anonymous No.15293362]

>>15289290
Bro my wife acted like she was into twinky, effeminate guys until she started clearly showing signs of being interested in me at the time I deadlifted lmao5pl8s and squat lmao3.5pl8s. Most people mention my shoulders, back or abs but she compliments my legs over anything else. I feel like it has largely to do with the type of people you’re exposed to over time because her social circle was entirely twinks until I met her and her tastes changed to /fit/ ideals

[Anonymous No.15293383]

It’s a good outlet if done right and brings many other benefits. You’ll experience a much better mood, discipline etc and helps you with other creative endeavors. Also opens up a lot of new social avenues. Just do it from the perspective of wanting to become a stronger and better person. Chase specific goals, like to lift a certain amount of weight while staying healthy in other areas of life and treat it as healthy competition with other people who wanna get strong

[Anonymous No.15293392]

>>15289364
Lmfao

[Anonymous No.15294193]

>>15289604

This is the nub of it. The less charitable interpretation of weightlifting is that it's narcissism, and appeals to narcissists. This is an agreeable interpretation for physically weak people or people who are insecure about their bodies. But, in my experience, this isn't the main reason why guys lift weights.

Weight lifted is an objective standard, it rewards exactly as much effort as you put in. Weights don't discriminate as to your background, job, clout etc. Our society has shed all of the traditional ballast that allowed a man to feel as if he had a role to play (family, religion, community) in favour of empty, vapid liberalism. Empty, vapid liberalism rewards appearances and is, at its core, totally insubstantial. So you can understand why this one remaining objective pursuit, that virtually any man can take up, is so appealing to men looking to scrounge some last scrap of dignity out of their lives.

[Anonymous No.15295184]

>>15288051
I know!!

[Anonymous No.15295205]

>>15289364
you're my new favorite philosopher

[Anonymous No.15295405]

>>15289604
>but the "other challenges" are missing now
has no one on this board heard of sports or fighting?

[Anonymous No.15295783]

>>15289364
I pretty much agree with the idea that this is how it WAS and SHOULD BE. However, the lines have been blurred in the modern world. Everyone’s an object now. Or, maybe everyone a subject. It’s not really that clear. Either way, I think bodybuilding isn’t inherently gay if appropriated the right way. What you see today is mostly extreme commodification and fetishization of fitness and gym culture to a degree that’s revealed as pretty fake and gay if you peel away the glossy and plastic veneer. I don’t know when this obsession with weight rooms started either.

[Anonymous No.15295864]

>>15289364
this anon gets it

[Anonymous No.15295885]

>>15285360
lifting for hoes is gay as fuck. work out because you want to be healthy and strong. it's practical for many things.

[Anonymous No.15296088]

I started working out recently using weights. I'm training strength and flexibility though and not worrying about gains. It feels really good! My mood and focus has increased.