/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1527286]

Ask a card carring socilalst anything

[Anonymous No.1527291]

Ok. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.1527292]

>>1527286
You call that a fundamental party?

Check out my bitchin Trotskyist group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Revolutionary_Party_%28UK%29

I bet you believe in an authoritarian control over the working class while hypocritically giving them the means of production. So now you simply control those who have control the means. You need a workers government you filthy Menshevik separatist scum.

FOURTH INTERNATIONAL FOREVER COMRADES

[Anonymous No.1527293]

Why is your card so shitty?

[Anonymous No.1527298]

How does it feel to pay money to be a member of a party who doesn't really understand what it wants?

[Anonymous No.1527300]

Socialist Party isn't my thing..although I am a socialist..anyway, do you find that they are organized and offer plenty of opportunity for action? Autonomous Left Communist here.

[Anonymous No.1527301]

How does it feel to be on a FBI watchlist?

[Anonymous No.1527314]

>>1527292
LOL

You kidding? Trotsky? That fag turned coats in 1917 from the mainstream Marxists and joined that right-wing deviation, Leninism, in dismantling the worker's councils and opportunistically taking up state power!

Oh, nigga, you don't know shit 'bout socialism.

[Anonymous No.1527323]

>>1527301

[Anonymous No.1527327]

Sup comrade, fellow socialist here. But the SPUSA sucks. Most socialist organizations in the U.S. suck.
PSL matches most of my ideological positions, but they really overestimate their impact on society.
DSA is better organized and more influential, but a little on the conservative side.

[Anonymous No.1527335]

>>1527314
>>1527292
this is why most people a reluctant to take your politics seriously

[Anonymous No.1527338]

>>1527335
*are

[Anonymous No.1527351]

what makes you joint the socialist party above other leftist parties of the UK?

what is you opinion on ireland?

what is you opinion on inmigrants?

[Anonymous No.1527361]

>>1527314
Oh nigga you better be trolling, I have 5 Trotsky biographies and a collection of his speeches right here so get ready for your ass to be reamed.

Firstly a quick quote from Lenin:

>The dictatorship of the proletariat, i.e. the organization of the vanguard of the oppressed as the ruling class for the purpose of suppressing the oppressors, cannot result merely in an expansion of democracy. Simultaneously, with an immense expansion of democracy, which, for the first time, becomes democracy for the poor, democracy for the people, and not democracy for the money-bags, the dictatorship of the proletariat imposes a series of restrictions on the freedom of the oppressors, the exploiters, the capitalists. We must suppress them in order to free humanity from wage slavery, their resistance must be crushed by force; it is clear that there is no freedom and no democracy where there is suppression and where there is violence.

Trotsky considering that his main operation being

"The Provisional government to be done away with and a 'workers' government instituted"

That's from Services of Trotsky i have here. Now either you're just trolling or you don't understand Trotskyism at all. Considering that pre-1917 he wasn't wearing a coat and he stood as an independent against the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks so I don't understand who you thought he was betraying?

Also considering he didn't believe in singular state power and international socialism underlined in his Permanent revolution essays.

[Anonymous No.1527369]

i suspect OP is 14, doesn't really know anything about socialism except that it's somehow considered heterodox, and is reluctant to answer questions that will give this position away.

[Anonymous No.1527376]

>>1527361
It ain't what they say, bitch, it's what they do - and when those worker councils were broken up, it was the breaking up of socialism itself.

Trotskyist ideology may concern socialism, but only if you accept that Trotsky himself wasn't a socialist by his own standards.

Them councils, man.
Them workers councils.

[Anonymous No.1527377]

Op here.
>>1527301
Surprising as im from the uk.
>>1527292
>I bet you believe in an authoritarian control over the working class while hypocritically giving them the means of production.
No I want democracey in the work place and govement.
>>1527327
We have stepped up our action recently. We have been involved in anti cuts campaigns and student fees protests. But most of the party want to spend there time fighting the SWP.

[Anonymous No.1527381]

>>1527377
oh honestly I thought you were in the SPUSA (i'm a 'merifag) So I don't know the first thing about UK socialist party (although I suspect it's a bit better than SPUSA)

[Anonymous No.1527382]

>>1527286

I run a sweatshop in my basement. U Mad?

[Anonymous No.1527392]

Bakunin was here.
Statists are faggots.

[Anonymous No.1527397]

>>1527376
Are you some sort of stoned out hippy?

So you're saying by what he has said is no longer applicable to the field in which he stated them for?

What you have effectively done is decontextualize my statements to entirely fit your critique that doesn't fit. At least if you're going to jump into the argument at least address something first.

All in all I am sure this thread is from a bunch of young idealists who actually haven't looked up or researched the academics behind socialism.

Not going to profess to know everything just maybe a little less ignorant than those who go around screaming about how much they love Marx when they first learn about him. Probably in all honesty now I probably sound like that person.

[Anonymous No.1527398]

>>1527392
>implying all communists and socialists are "statists"
>fullretard.jpg

[Anonymous No.1527400]

>>1527392
hey bakunin!

how is the free organization of the people for a common good going?

[Anonymous No.1527402]

>>1527398
>anarchism or freedom is the aim, while the state and dictatorship is the means, and so, in order to free the masses, they have first to be enslaved
>full_retarded.jpg

Bakunin got your number, faggot.

[Anonymous No.1527405]

Op here again, I am not the most clued up on the theroy and am not an excpert on the history of trotskysim and yes i am quite young sorry for dellays in posts.
>>1527351
On Ireland do you mean the current sitiuation or independace from the uk?
On joining the SP rather than other organsations, I saw them as the most organsied when the EDL came to town and other issues.
On immergrartion i believe in open borders.

[Anonymous No.1527408]

>>1527400
How that's glorious statist utopia, faggot?

I mean, I guess it's fun worshipping the glorious leader in DPRK and under Stalinism, but you faggots take it to a whole new level.

[Anonymous No.1527411]

>>1527405
yes on the separation

so the SP is against the EDL or compared to the EDL?

[Anonymous No.1527412]

>>1527405
Why did you join then if you don't understand simply some of the most basic things about yourself?

Personal politics and opinion are something no one else gives a shit about, so at least have some care when deciding on your own.

[Anonymous No.1527413]

>>1527381
I think we are part of the Committee for a Workers' International so Socialist Alternative in The US.

[Anonymous No.1527414]

>>1527408
is going like the awesomes, enjoy your lifestyleism

[Anonymous No.1527418]

>>1527412
Not OP but this is possibly the least elegant and most spurious troll I've ever seen
0/10

[Anonymous No.1527420]

>>1527408
You wanna asshole?

Speaking of collectivism looks like you certainly collected all the pies. I don't see why you're an anarchist, your a nation all by yourself bitch.

[Anonymous No.1527421]

>>1527408
You wanna go asshole?

Speaking of collectivism looks like you certainly collected all the pies. I don't see why you're an anarchist, your a nation all by yourself bitch.

[Anonymous No.1527425]

>>1527402
lrn2leftcommunism you fuckface. it's not the 19th century anymore.

[Anonymous No.1527427]

>>1527411
"If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs."
Captalim needs to be gotton rid of just as much as impreialsm but I would not mind seeing a complety indepent ireland including the north.

[Anonymous No.1527428]

>>1527408

Hey Bakunin, when was the last time an anarcho-communist society existed continuously for more than 50 years?

[Anonymous No.1527433]

OP what are you opinions on the monarchy?

[Anonymous No.1527440]

>>1527428
Free State Christiania in Denmark..i'm not even the idiot posing as Bakunin but I know that...

[Anonymous No.1527441]

>>1527421
>>1527425
>>1527428
Bakunin always gets picked on...

[Anonymous No.1527442]

>>1527408
Socilalist states only become autheriarian when it fails to inspire an iternational revelution/

[Anonymous No.1527446]

>>1527442
So, always so far?

[Anonymous No.1527451]

>>1527441
I laughed. And now I have to go to the pub and? they'll say "So what have you been up to today", "Uhhh pretending to be russian revolutionary figures on the internet making fat jokes in correlation with their politics".

[Anonymous No.1527456]

Op here
>>1527433
I think its an imbread, outdated, over paid and pointless system. Only usefull as a safeguard againts dictatorship but why does that have to be herdertary and unelected.
>>1527292
I am a trotykist.

[Anonymous No.1527458]

>>1527440

You mean that quasi-independent hippy commune with <1000 members who are currently undergoing the process of re-integrating into the state?

[Anonymous No.1527460]

>>1527451
Only on 4chan

[Anonymous No.1527482]

>>1527458
And also consider that anything outside their community is still managed by the Copenhagen government. So they pretty much decide where they sell their pot and where their deadbeat friends can sleep.

However with actual governmental shit like, roads, plumbing, housing, education, health and lighting they have nothing to do with that as a community.

One of the only big things they do is take a vote over who can set up one of their shabby little stalls on the street.

[Anonymous No.1527488]

>OH MY GOD I LIKE STALIN AND COMMUNISM I AM SO RANDUMB HEHE THEY ARE FUNNY RUSSIAN PEOPLE HEHEHEHE I AM SO RANDUMBBB XDDD

Take off your fedora and go home you faggot.

[Anonymous No.1527498]

Billionaire master race here.

How does it feel to be poor?

[Anonymous No.1527499]

>>1527456

>imbread

[Anonymous No.1527511]

>>1527498
>implying you are actually rich

[Anonymous No.1527512]

>Socialist kiddy thinking he's edgy because he's socialist

Sure is 1900 in here.

The Cold War has, for better or worse, reduced reds to nothing more than a bunch of spoiled, entitled brats that can do nothing more than parrot outdated and failed rhetoric.

They are caricatures now. Socialism is now little more than a stage of puberty.

[Anonymous No.1527513]

>>1527498
Why don't you go back to your iron cross delivering butt buddy Adolf?

[Anonymous No.1527520]

>>1527512
Considering that this thread is pretty much all far leftists in here, what are your thoughts than on the far right?

Or do you believe now political the only spectrum's we can exist in are centrist ones with only certain issues fraying to the center left and correspondingly center right?

[Anonymous No.1527525]

>>1527511
<Rockefeller

[Anonymous No.1527533]

>>1527525
omplying you actually are rockefeller

[Anonymous No.1527538]

>>1527512
>Implying socialism isn't an influential force in Latin America
>Implying east-Europe and Russia aren't moving towards a neo-Strasserite red fascism

[Anonymous No.1527543]

>>1527520

The present far right are also buffoons, I think, though in a middle-aged reactionary way. No straight or cohesive agenda, and the same problems with infighting that the lefties do. Most right wingers I'm aware of are just Daily Mail reading idiots, or skinhead dipshits that think they have a spititual affinity to the old Right.

And no, I'm not necessarily a centrist, though I find it painfult to see how we've reduced ourselves to this attol of centrism in politics, given that variance and difference are fundamental to democracy.

[Anonymous No.1527559]

I am an Libertarian.

[Anonymous No.1527562]

>>1527538

>Latin America
LA is less wealthy than the West proper, remember. Of course there are going to be germinations of socialism there. I bet next you'll tell me that there are socialists in Africa too!

>neo-Strasserite Red Fascism
>left wing

I'll concede this one based on an anticipated rebuttal involving the Nolan Chart.

[Anonymous No.1527563]

I am a Libertarian.

[Anonymous No.1527566]

>>1527559
which one? we have a very big catalogue

[Anonymous No.1527568]

>>1527563
Good for you

[Anonymous No.1527569]

Better red than dead

[Anonymous No.1527571]

Better dead than red

[Anonymous No.1527572]

>>1527563
>realice he wrote "an libertarian" but delated the original post

please be an hero

[Anonymous No.1527601]

>>1527566
Cool to see that /lit/ is on the intellectual level of /new/ but is just more pretentious about it.

[Anonymous No.1527616]

>>1527601

[Anonymous No.1527619]

>>1527571

>better hurr than durr

[Anonymous No.1527630]

>>1527616
Not at all, if I was mad I would have just posted the photoshopped version that attacks "statism" with equivalent tact and intelligence.

[Anonymous No.1527668]

>>1527630

[Anonymous No.1527672]

Where's your utopia? How does it feel to not be making any progress whatsoever and having white nationalists be more popular than you? And how does it feel to be in a party whose hypocritical beliefs have been outed as stupid for the past three fourths of a century?

[Anonymous No.1527679]

>>1527672
Asking where a utopia is reveals mindblowing ignorance..

Anyway..why all the old school socialism? Do you people really not understand post-marxism?

[Anonymous No.1527700]

>>1527679
Why does asking a person involved in a system attempting to achieve a utopia where its utopia is reveal any form of ignorance? If you have nothing to back it up with, then why would you bother saying it?

[Anonymous No.1527709]

>>1527700
a utopia means "no place" and so asking where it is is incredibly stupid..anyway..socialists are not all "utopian socialists" bro..you are being really dumb..

[Anonymous No.1527731]

>>1527709
Well then what is the point of being a socialist? Doesn't it profess economic equality and equal rights for everyone? Isn't that a Utopian ideal?

[Anonymous No.1527759]

>>1527731
Well yes and no..equality is certainly somewhat idealistic..not necessarily utopian..most socialists are willing to concede that our actions are not going to be fully realized at once..that it will be a process and the idea that we will face many challenges in dismantling capitalism is certainly not "utopian" I don't think there are many utopian socialists left..i mean we all realize what happened under stalin..we haven't forgotten the spanish civil war..

[Anonymous No.1529469]

[Anonymous No.1529472]

Why do you think your bourgeois compromise of a system will ever work?

[Anonymous No.1529824]

[Anonymous No.1529851]

too much of a faggot for the communist party?
Why don't you just join the labour. They do have a socialist wing.

[Anonymous No.1529853]

at my college a beautiful hippie girl approached me and asked if I want to join to the Socialist Party. As she was very pretty and I am an idiot, now I'm communist

[Anonymous No.1529863]

Why can't you just have a normal religion like the other kids?

[Anonymous No.1530227]

>>1529863

[Anonymous No.1530233]

[Anonymous No.1530240]

Have you ever taken Econ 101? What do you say to the notion that socialism hinders competition and, thereby, economic efficiency and growth.

[Anonymous No.1530263]

>>1530240

What do you say to the notion that growth takes precedence over human rights and equity?

[Anonymous No.1530643]

bamp

[Anonymous No.1530653]

>>1527292
>Trotskyist
>Menshevik
Pick two.

[Anonymous No.1530665]

>>1530653

[Anonymous No.1530687]

>>But most of the party want to spend there time fighting the SWP.

Yeah that was what put me off joining the SP, that pervasive paranoid sectarianism. I ended up in the SWP and have been a member for 6 years. We do joke about that sort of thing but its never really serious, whereas I got the impression that the people in the SP genuinely hate the SWP. Dunno if that's what its like everywhere. Still if the SP are the people who are active in your area doing the shit and keeping campaigns going work with them, just try not to go nuts and loose your objectivity.

[Anonymous No.1531071]

>>1530687
>>1527286
how exactly are you planning to raise the worker's consciousness and where exactly are you planning an industrial worker this day?

[Anonymous No.1531072]

>>1530687
>>1527286
how exactly are you planning to raise the worker's consciousness and where exactly are you planning to find an industrial worker this day?

[Anonymous No.1531082]

>>1530653
You don't understand fatuous statements do you?

Also, I went out last night got wasted and came back to this thread, is /lit/ so slow now I can leave for 12 hours and still make it back in time to be a dick on the web?

[Anonymous No.1531895]

i bump

[Anonymous No.1532434]

>>1527731
It would be utopian if it assumed everyone had fantastic jobs like making some clean and common item in a bright, shiny factory, but I would say that most Socialists (at least hopefully) realize that no matter how fair we make the system, someone still has to shovel the shit.

I guess you could call it utopian on paper but realized in a less-than-utopian fashion.

I'd be ok with having to shovel shit once-a-whenever if that kept things running.

[Anonymous No.1533146]

la bampa

[Anonymous No.1533149]

do they owe us a living

course they fuckin do..................................................................................................
......

[Anonymous No.1533161]

>>1533149
I don't know who they are, but they owe me a sandwich

[Anonymous No.1533167]

>>1533161
i hate the world since im poor too

[Anonymous No.1533170]

SPUSA? How does it feel to have Brian Moores cock in your mouth
Moderate bourgeois complacent scumbag your head will roll along with the upper class once we overthrow the yoke of oppression!!

[Anonymous No.1533172]

>>1533170
You seem to be taking this very seriously

[Anonymous No.1533184]

>>1531895
>>1533146
why? stop that. this thread is shit

[Anonymous No.1533226]

Socialist Party?

lol. Enjoy being the left wing of the white nationalist movement.

That's what all first-worldist "leftists" are

[Anonymous No.1533365]

>>1533170
SPUK

OP is british