/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15264326]

What does he mean by technique? I honestly can't understand The Technological Society. What would a world with less obsession with technique look like?

[Anonymous No.15264406]

>>15264326
>What would a world with less obsession with technique look like?
like this.

but seriously an other anon summarized it nicely in a previous thread: 'Techniqur has a broader scope than technology and is basically the drive towards efficiency, rationalization and ordering principles at a given stage of development. This isn’t exclusively modern and existed even among ancient humans but with the Industrial Revolution technique has exploded and dominated the planet. Even stuff like standardized time and clocks are technical'

[Anonymous No.15264458]

>>15264406
Ok, but what does that really mean?

[Anonymous No.15264907]

>>15264458
Reign of quantity

[Anonymous No.15264911]

>>15264406
jesus christ. does this land whale actually make money?

[Anonymous No.15265719]

>>15264907
What?

[Anonymous No.15265745]

>>15264406
call me ishmael

[Anonymous No.15265759]

>>15265719
it's a process of alienation bro
it's optimization at the cost of humans
basically humans sacrificing themselves for the perfection and optimization of a task is the consummation of technique

[Anonymous No.15265774]

>>15265759
What kind of system would not do this though? It seems like it's inevitable unless you want to die out. How can you compete any other way?

[Anonymous No.15265837]

>>15265774
well that's exactly the point he's trying to make
compete towards what exactly? your alienation
the economy today takes primacy over humans, that's his entire point, and the fact that you're worried about materialist competition proves exactly that

[Anonymous No.15265975]

>>15265837
But how would another system function? That's what I'm wondering because I don't see any alternative.

[Anonymous No.15266018]

>>15265975
"it is easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism"

[Anonymous No.15266032]

>>15265975
it's okay, nobody does either, but it always starts by noticing the flaws of the system
read capitalist realism by mark fisher, he talks precisely about the fact that we can't see an alternative to this

[Anonymous No.15267554]

>>15266032
So just bitch about it for nothing then?

[Anonymous No.15269044]

I see none of you anti-tech LARPers can provide a coherent answer.

[Anonymous No.15269218]

>>15265975
Angloid bugman detected.

[Anonymous No.15269225]

>>15266032
People who can't see alternatives tend to be morons.

[Anonymous No.15270662]

>>15269225
state one alternative dipshit

[Anonymous No.15271521]

>>15265837
>>the economy today takes primacy over humans
I'm getting tired of this charlatanism.
The 'economy' or the 'technique' doesn't magically take primacy by itself. It is decided by men. Men decide to do these things, and by this very fact they are putting their aims first. It is always primacy of the minds doing it.
What you and Ellul are trying to say is that there are very specific aims and objectives that you consider to be the 'real' human and they do not correspond to what is chosen by men. With some conservative leftist like Ellul, the ideal would be some sort of vaguely intellectualized version of those women-with-children-in-wheat-fields pictures that some morons tried (and failed) to hype on /pol/.

[Anonymous No.15271558]

>>15265975
>I don't see any alternative.
You need Jesus

[Anonymous No.15271585]

>>15271521
It’s power and fear of immediate death that keeps capitalism in power. We can’t wind back anything without war and death

[Anonymous No.15271602]

>>15265745
From hell's heart I stab at thee...

[Anonymous No.15271605]

>>15271521
>says the man on the transmitting his message to the internet with his chinese electronics

which part of this did you choose?

[Anonymous No.15271614]

>>15271585
We can't wind anything back. War is won with technology.

[Anonymous No.15271619]

>I describe a world with no exit, convinced that God accompanies man throughout his history.

[Anonymous No.15271652]

>>15271585
>fear of immediate death that keeps capitalism in power.
Well, that's also true, but probably not in the sense you were going for.

>>15271605
I chose my computer, indeed. Even made some autistic comparisons of processors before settling.
I like the capability of sending these messages to stupid anonymous from halfway around the world. I chose doing that too.

[Anonymous No.15271688]

>>15265975
Instead of maximizing consumption via optimal production, we might instead try to maximize human satisfaction via optimal consumption. An alternative system would want minimize consumption to prevent over-production which has rapidly begun to exhaust our capital (natural resources). We would want to build things that last, we would want to be self-reliant, we would want to eat seasonally, we would want to be part of small nations, even city states instead of massive countries, etc.

read E.F Schumacher's Small is Beautiful

[Anonymous No.15271708]

>>15271652
You chose that instead of becoming a subsistence farmer? Did you ever have an alternative? Did you choose to go to school? To learn to write?

[Anonymous No.15271713]

>>15271688
What problem does this solve?

[Anonymous No.15271822]

>>15264406
>tfw someone thought my post was good enough to post in another thread a few days later
Feels good

[Anonymous No.15271838]

>>15271708
>>You chose that instead of becoming a subsistence farmer?
I chose to be a researcher in material science if my life is bothering you. I didn't consider farming, but had other, very different opportunities I strongly considered. Shitposting is probably better than farming in my opinion.
>Did you ever have an alternative?
Yes. Other jobs, other countries, neetdom, etc.
>Did you choose to go to school?
It's indeed mandatory up to age 16 where I grew up, and I happen to have disliked most of it. I chose to go to post secondary education though.
>To learn to write?
It's indeed part of the mandatory curriculum. I'm far enough down into lolbergtarianism to think any state mandated curriculum is communism but learning to write is quite honestly not far fetched. I wouldn't go on rants about lack of control because I was told to have basic literacy as a small child. If you allow an imaginary scenario, I think I would definitely learn to read/write as an adult had I not already. I can't say if I chose here but I immediately liked reading upon learning.
You could however say the same thing about any activity you are made to do as a child. Will the anti-capitalist covenant magically make people adult at birth?

[Anonymous No.15271839]

>>15265975
Is it that hard to imagine a world less efficiently ordered at the cost of everything else, a world which allows some spontaneity or irrationality to creep in? That’s most of history.

[Anonymous No.15271847]

>>15265745
>call me ishmael
Kek

[Anonymous No.15271894]

>>15271838
If you were a kid say a few thousand years ago, what were your alternatives? Are they different? Why is that?

>Will the anti-capitalist covenant magically make people adult at birth?
The whole question is flawed. Ellul is not anti-capitalist.

>Jesus finds the same mistake in both the Saducees and the Pharisees, both those who collaborate with the Romans and those who oppose them.

[Anonymous No.15271933]

>>15271894
>>If you were a kid say a few thousand years ago, what were your alternatives?
Whatever is available at the time you describe.
>Are they different?
Yes.
>Why is that?
Let's just technique since it's the topic. Technique (by that I also mean the men doing it) oversaw an enormous opening of opportunities.
>The whole question is flawed. Ellul is not anti-capitalist.
Make that the great anti-tech covenant then.
Don't Jesus me, especially in a thread about a c*lvinist.

[Anonymous No.15272377]

>>15271894
>Ellul is not anti-capitalist.
I wouldn’t say he was exactly pro-capitalist either

[Anonymous No.15272439]

>>15271713
Some sense of meaning beyond what is simply materialistic? Modern architecture is so finely tuned that there is nothing left in it.
This can be shown by the fact that throughout the world, across culture, we can see the same kind of modern building being erected everywhere. Something is lost.