Aztec Philosophy: "okay, this slaps" edition

[Anonymous No.15257190]

>Malinalli motion-change plays a vital and indispensable role in the becoming and processing of the Fifth Sun, Fifth Age, and all inhabitants of the Fifth Age. If olin motion-change constitutes the biorhythm of the Fifth Sun, Fifth Age, and all inhabitants of the Fifth Age, then malinalli motion-change constitutes the shape of the conveyance, circulation, and recycling of vital energies that initiate, nourish, fortify, and complete these olin-defined biorhythms.

>Olin-defined processes need nourishing and malinalli processes supply them with such nourishment. If we think of olin as the beating heart of the Fifth Age, then we should think of malinalli as the twisting arteries, veins, and entrails through which circulates the energy that nourishes that beating heart. These twisting and gyrating paths of circulating energy function as the energy-conveying and life-sustaining bloodstream/foodstream of the Fifth Age. Malinalli motion-change figures prominently in Aztec rituals because it makes possible humankind’s active participation in the regeneration and continuation of the Fifth Age.

[Anonymous No.15257332]

>there will never be Aztec Buddhism
>there will never be Aztec Fascism
>there will never be Aztec Idealism
>There will never be again, a people of the sun
I HATE THIS TIMELINE

[Anonymous No.15257354]

>>15257190
>malinalli
>olin
These are not real words and makes your entire post nonsensical.

[Anonymous No.15257471]

>>15257354
Yeah they are, ignorant hick.

[Anonymous No.15257516]

Just one word.
Teotl

[Anonymous No.15257639]

>>15257332
Why not?
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD.

You now have a Philosophy to synthesize, friend, go blow people's minds

[Anonymous No.15257646]

>>15257332
Read Bataille and Deleuze... The Solar Empire never ended... The autarch shall restart the sun!

[Anonymous No.15257776]

Aztec Idealism seems weird at first because of Process Monism, but actually it makes perfect sense if you consider the inamichuan

[Anonymous No.15258154]

>>15257354
What fuck are you doing here, you brainless shiteater prick?

[Anonymous No.15258181]

>>15257190
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST HOW MANY FUCKING REFORMULATIONS DO YOU NEED OF THE WILL, THE DIONYSIAN, THE WILL TO POWER, THE HERACLITEAN, THE PARMENIDEAN, BEING QUA BEING, TO APEIRON, THE ABSOLUTE

WE GET IT, WE FUCKING GET IT, IT DISSOLVES DUALISMS, IT DISSOLVES BOUNDARIES, WE GET IT, CONCEPTS ARE FINITE BUBBLES IN AN INFINITE MEDIUM AND THE MEDIUM HAS PRIORITY, WE FUCKING GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S AN INTERESTING METAPHOR, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITH MORE ORIENTAL PHILOSOPHIES LIKE THE DAO AND THE SACRED FIRE OF PING PANG PONGO, THEY'RE LITERALLY MINING FUCKING AZTEC PHILOSOPHY NOW TO RECAPITULATE WHAT NIETZSCHE WAS ALREADY JUST CRIBBING FROM HEINE SCHOPENHAUER AND GOETHE?!?!?! WHY?????????? WHY CAN'T THESE FUCKING WORTHLESS HACKS EVER DO SOMETHING INTERESTING FOR A CHANGE?

IS THIS REALLY WHAT YOUR WHOLE SAD PISS LIFE IS SPENT ON? BECOMING A FUCKING SHITDICK ANTHROPOLOGIST OF MESOAMERICA JUST SO YOU CAN PROVE THAT THE TEN THOUSAND DERIVATIVE REFORMULATIONS OF HEIDEGGER'S CLEANED-UP REFORMULATION OF NIETZSCHE'S INVERTED REFORMULATION OF SCHOPENHAUER'S AESTHETICIZED REFORMULATION OF A VITALISTIC OR TATKRAFTIG NOUMENON IS [[[[ALSO ADUMBRATED OR CONFIRMED BY YET ANOTHER OOGA BOOGA SPIRIT JUNGLE RELIGION]]]]????????????? HOW DOES THE STALE AIR EMANATING FROM THIS CLICHE SINCE SOMEONE FIRST THOUGHT OF SYSTEMATICALLY ORIENTALIZING HEIDEGGER IN THE FUCKING 1940S NOT GET DETECTED BY THE NOSTRILS OF THESE FUCKING ACADEMICS

ALL OF THIS WORK, ALL THOSE YEARS SPENT PORING OVER ANOTHER CULTURE, JUST SO THAT YOU CAN CONFIRM YOUR LAZY PRECONCEPTIONS OF QUIETIST POST-PLATONIST FUCKING "LOOK MOM, IT'S STILL 1968! I BOUGHT A TURTLENECK JUST LIKE FOUCAULT!" NEOLIBERAL BOHEMIAN IDEOLOGY ANYWAY? WHY NOT JUST SKIP ALL THAT GO STRAIGHT TO THE BATHHOUSE??

HOW DO THEY NOT REALIZE THAT THIS IS THE WORST "ORIENTALISM" OF ALL? IT'S NOT THE ETHICAL CONSEQUENCES OF ORIENTALISM THAT ARE DISTURBING, IT'S THE EPISTEMOLOGICAL BIAS!!! THE PREMISE IS THAT THE EPISTEMOLOGICAL BIAS ALWAYS GENERATES NEGATIVE ETHICAL CONSEQUENCES! THE PROBLEM WITH ORIENTALISM WASN'T THAT IT WAS PLATONIST, SO IT'S FINE FOR YOU TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU'RE NEOPLATONIST. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT YOU'RE DOING IT AT ALL. WHY NOT TRY TO EXPERIENCE ACTUAL ALTERITY? DOESNT IT BOTHER YOU THAT YOU'RE AGREEING WITH THE TAOIST EAST ASIAN STUDIES GUY DESPITE WORKING ON THE AZTECS LITERALLY SEVERAL "WORLDS" AWAY?

WHY AM I CONSTANTLY ASSAULTED BY BAD PHILOSOPHIES. WHY DOES EVERYBODY THINK THEY'RE A FUCKING GENIUS FOR LASHING LEVINAS TO DELEUZE AND GOING "OMG WITH THIS I CAN ***REALLY*** OVERCOME CARTESIANISM." WOW! YOU DID IT! LIKE ALL YOUR OTHER EUNUCH COLLEAGUES WHO PLAYED THE SAME MAD LIBS GAME TOO!! NOW YOU'RE A FUCKING COOL GUY!

[Anonymous No.15258231]

>>15258181

[Anonymous No.15258278]

>>15258181
Is this it? Is this what /lit/ is coming to? Is this the final culmination and product of this board, or will it proceed from here?

[Anonymous No.15258318]

>>15258278
He doesn't even have a coherent concept of the epistemologies he's talking about.
There's a god damn big difference between how knowledge is determined just between Madhvacharya and Shankaracharya. And they both accept Samkhya.
So fuck you.
Also, what level of retarded do you have to be to think a substance ontology like Platonism is identical to a process ontology like Taoism?
Jesus Christ already

[Anonymous No.15258320]

>>15257332
>there will never be Aztec Buddhism
Not with that attitude.

[Anonymous No.15258331]

>>15258181
Alright this was based

[Anonymous No.15258345]

>>15258318
>Also, what level of retarded do you have to be to think a substance ontology like Platonism is identical to a process ontology like Taoism?
Wabi sabi level.

[Anonymous No.15258354]

>>15258318
It's a copypasta, dude.

[Anonymous No.15258364]

It's up on libgen.

[Anonymous No.15258371]

>>15258354
>>/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=JESUS+FUCKING+CHRIST+HOW+MANY+FUCKING+REFORMULATIONS+DO+YOU+NEED+OF+THE+WILL%2C+THE+DIONYSIAN%2C+THE+WILL+TO+POWER%2C+THE+HERACLITEAN%2C+THE+PARMENIDEAN%2C+BEING+QUA+BEING%2C+TO+APEIRON%2C+THE+ABSOLUTE
Typically copypastas get posted more than 4 times in 2 years, force your epic maymays somewhere else lad.

[Anonymous No.15258372]

It's also up on libgen.

[Anonymous No.15258377]

>>15258181
This is the final nail in the coffin of the (((perennialists))). Their long dream of scrubbing clean all that "nasty" diversity in human thought have finally been thoroughly ended.

[Anonymous No.15258446]

>>15258372
Haven't dug into this'n yet, how is it being ontologically presented?
I was reading Marc Bloch's Feudal Society and the stuff about the way Europeans thought about and experienced time differently from both the ancient and the post-enlightenment worlds was fascinating

[Anonymous No.15258584]

>>15258446
Read PotAM after Aztec Philosophy. Half the book is McLeod engaging with other scholars of MesoAmerica in rather arcane arguments about sources and language, but the other half is taking the ideas from Aztec Philosophy and essentially asking the question:
>Because everything is made of teotl teotling teotl that was teotled to make teotl that will teotl teotl, meaning everything can only exist by interacting with other things ala Indra's Net, then a thing can only be by interacting with another thing in mutual change...
>so how do things interact through time? Does that mean that by interacting with something in the past, you're actually changing the past? And by interacting with something in the future, you're changing the future?
The answer to that is: Yes. Similarly to Aztec Philosophy, PotAM explores the Mayans and their culture as a means of conveying the philosophical ideas. In particular, how the Mayans viewed identity (with the identity of the king being the most important).

The notable idea in regards to identity, is that the Maya did not view their rulers as dying a transporter-death and reincarnating (so King X is King Y in another body), in the sense that the King is a ghost inhabiting repeated bodies, but rather that through ritual the New King actually fuses himself (!) with the Old King, merging with and becoming him. An individual can thus be the continuation of multiple individuals (!), share their continuation with other individuals (!), and is defined by who they are continuing (!). The Maya made a HUGE deal about their history because of this, as you were literally defined as a person by the history of your people and their past.

It's not as mindblowing as Aztec Philosophy, but it's still pretty interesting.

[Anonymous No.15258636]

>>15258584
I forgot to mention, McLeod agrees with Maffie's statement that the whole Process Theology Ontological Monism thing is a pan-American thing (I would say "Pan-Paleo-Siberian", as all "Red Men" appear to operate under this schema, but the Inuit do not)

[Anonymous No.15258686]

>>15258636
I've had a fucking impossible time finding any english language lit on Tengri, if you have, would you say that Finno-Ugric Turks/Mongols share that process monism with their cousins in America?
Most stuff I've seen is as shallow as the encyclopedia articles acting on the assumption that the apparent polytheism of mesoamerica is the entire story: that the Tengrists are simply Animists and Spiritists, which smells funny to me.

[Anonymous No.15258712]

>>15258686
Sadly, I can't comment on that. That's really fucking interesting, however, I haven't actually thought about Tengrism in that light. When I was reading through Aztec Philosophy I repeatedly had moments of "This is basically Buddhism, but with the focus on metaphysics instead of soteriology", so I think a problem would be that if you did manage to find stuff on this, you might end up largescale influence of Buddhism or Islam. On the other hand, China has parallels (as both Maffie and McLeod note; McLeod outright uses comparisons to China in several instances), so it might be that this stuff is just sort of floating around Asia and the Paleosiberians got it from, well, having originated in Asia a long time ago. So my answer is, I can't confirm, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I've also been interested in African Philosophy, and like your problem with Central America, have found fuck all of worth.

[Anonymous No.15258736]

>tfw I'll never have a strong aztec woman by my side as I rip a wh*te man's heart out and offer it to Huitzilopochtli

[Anonymous No.15258788]

>>15258712
I was considering ideology in context of drugs as well.
Both how the drugs inform the ideology and how the ideology informs the drug experience.
This reminds me of two essays from Michael Harner's Hallucinogens And Shamanism, one about why Apaches have a totally neutral concept of powers, except for when they encountered and tried to use peyote, which due to their particular social mores and ideology (both pre and post contact with europe into modernity) caused massive social problems, which led peyote to be the only power classified as Evil outright.
The second is about Lycanthropy in europe being a product of the two most common drugs available there: amanita and most commonly Datura, and further how the European view has shamanism/witchcraft in this sinister category even pre-christian-contact.

More interesting to me than the African black hole is the Negrito and Indigenous peoples of Island Southeast Asia, and if they are in line ideologically with their relatives in Australia and South India.

[Anonymous No.15258794]

>>15258736
Here's your indian princess, bro

[Anonymous No.15258852]

>>15258712
>>15258788
A further note on this subject, that of Mazdayasna (Zoroastrianism) vs Vedism and how Soma and Haoma could have been two different strains of a drug, like Indica vs Sativa.
Now, with this theory, the general consensus has been Amanita. (I feel based on description of pressing the plants for their milk, it's opium) If one side went to a tropical location like India, they would find psilocybin instead, and this would indeed make for a radically different vision of the Mythology.
Of course, Zoroaster reformed Vedism not the other way, so perhaps it was he that got the wrong kind of mushroom one day after performing Agnihotra.

The vision of Zoroaster, of a radical abstraction and simplification of Vedism matches with an Amanita trip, versus the convolution and fractal nature of Vedism, especially Upanishadic traditions.
Two radically different takes painted from the same Mythological Palette

[Anonymous No.15258893]

>>15257516
Does "Teotl" ethimology has similar implications like "Allah", "Brahma" or "YHWH"?

[Anonymous No.15258911]

>>15258794
post moar

[Anonymous No.15258912]

>>15258893
>At the heart of Nahua philosophy stands the thesis that there exists a single, dynamic, vivifying, eternally self-generating and self-regenerating sacred power, energy or force: what the Nahuas called teotl (see Boone 1994; Burkhart 1989; Klor de Alva 1979; Monaghan 2000; H.B. Nicholson 1971; Read 1998; Townsend 1972). Elizabeth Boone (1994:105) writes, “The real meaning of [teotl] is spirit — a concentration of power as a sacred and impersonal force”. >According to Jorge Klor de Alva (1979:7), “Teotl …implies something more than the idea of the divine manifested in the form of a god or gods; instead it signifies the sacred in more general terms”. The multiplicity of gods in official, state sanctioned Aztec religion does not gainsay this claim, for this multiplicity was merely the sacred, merely teotl, “separated, as it were by the prism of human sight, into its many attributes” (I. Nicholson 1959:63f).
https://www.iep.utm.edu/aztec/#H2

[Anonymous No.15258932]

>>15258911

[Anonymous No.15258956]

>>15258893
Allah, God, Brahma, and Yahweh all refer to an individual (a god) that has been empowered above just "big guy in the sky who does stuff". Teotl is not a person, it's not an individual, it's closer to a substance. It's the stuff that everything is made of. Teotl is not, however, a noun, but a verb. Teotl is a process. It's better understood as teotling. "Teotling is" is improper, as "is-ing" is just a form of teotling. Teotl interacts with itself so that everything can be. Teotling. That's all everything is. Teotling. We humans, with our minds (the gods EXPLICITLY made us with minds capable of arbitrarily divvying up Teotl, but not seeing it as it is; in the Maya myth, the gods outright wiped out proto-humans that couldn't do this), put artificial boundaries, this and that, on things. It's all teotl. The universe is-ing is teotl. Teotling is all that is. Teotling teotls teotl. If you're aware of the Buddhist concept of Emptiness, that's sort of how this works, as even teotl is ultimately empty, being teotl is just teotling. To describe teotling as "the universe becoming" is approximate. A verb, not a noun.

In Nahuatl, it's stuck on various other words, but those names derive from teotl, teotl doesn't derive from those names. Mana, or numa, is roughly similar. It's for this reason that Aztec architecture didn't believe in boundaries. You can have concentrations of stuff that fade out, but there are no real discrete lines or borders. Sacred places are places that concentrate certain energies that are potent concentrations of teotl (there's three of them, bounciness, twistiness, and weaviness). This is where Mesoamerican "Shamanism" comes from; the Shaman must excite and gather energies.

[Anonymous No.15259019]

>>15258956
I would disagree in that I would say if you were to make an Indian Philosophy example, it would be Prakriti or Shakti.
The concept of Shakti in Devi-Bhagavata Purana and the concept of Prakriti in Samkhya are much more like the Gerund you're describing.

Prakriti minus Purusha, Shakti minus Shiva

[Anonymous No.15259025]

>>15258956
>We humans, with our minds (the gods EXPLICITLY made us with minds capable of arbitrarily divvying up Teotl, but not seeing it as it is; in the Maya myth, the gods outright wiped out proto-humans that couldn't do this), put artificial boundaries, this and that, on things
You should REALLY take a few days for picrel.

[Anonymous No.15259046]

>>15258956
That's interesting because the ethimological roots of the words "Allah", "Brahma" and "YHWH" in each one of their language is the equivalent of "I am" indicating unity.
By the concept you explain "Teotl" coud be a close equivallence with the old world concepts.

[Anonymous No.15259052]

Isnt Aztec a fancy word for Mexican?

[Anonymous No.15259099]

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN, BRING THE SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!

[Anonymous No.15259117]

>>15259052
Do you mean Aztlan? Some Mexicans say it

[Anonymous No.15259138]

>>15258181
reddit moment

[Anonymous No.15259163]

>>15257332
>some adored the sun as their god, that during the night they might, in the absence of the sun, do what they pleased, without fear of divine chastisement. “Some regarded the sun as their God, that, after the setting of the sun, they might be without a God.” (Catech. iv.) The conduct of these miserable dupes was very criminal; but they were careful not to sin in presence of their god. But Christians know that God is present in all places, and that he sees all things. ”Do not I fill Heaven and Earth? saith the Lord,” (Jer. xxiii. 24); and still they do not abstain from insulting him, and from provoking his wrath in his very presence: “A people that continually provoke me to anger before my face.” (Isa. Ixv. 3.) Hence, by sinning before him who is their judge, they even make God a witness of their iniquities: ”I am the judge and the witness, saith the Lord.” (Jer. xxix. 23.)

[Anonymous No.15259193]

>>15259052
Aztlan was the mythical homeland, the Mexica weren't Mexica until they actually settled at Tenochtitlan.
They're Nahuas.

Modern Mexicans are a variety of Mesoamerican tribes mixed heavily with the Spanish.

[Anonymous No.15259199]

>>15259163
Teotl literally is everything everywhere, so like, check and mate

[Anonymous No.15259210]

>>15259193
Had no idea, thanks for clarifying.

[Anonymous No.15259330]

>>15259210
Read PicRel, fun but highly accurate historical novel on this subject.
His book on Marco Polo is fucking based too.

[Anonymous No.15259810]

>>15257332
Wait this is based

[Anonymous No.15260027]

>>15258956
Just say Tao bro.

[Anonymous No.15260048]

>>15260027
>saying the eternal Tao

[Anonymous No.15260351]

>Shiva-Shakti is therefore Consciousness and Its Power. This then is the doctrine of dual aspects of the one Brahman acting through Its Trinity of Powers (Iccha, Will; Jñana, Knowledge; Kriya, Action). In the static transcendent aspect (Shiva) the one Brahman does not change and in the kinetic immanent aspect (Shivé or Shakti) It does. >There is thus changelessness in change. The individual or embodied Spirit (Jivatma) is one with the transcendent spirit (Paramatma). >The former is a part (Amsha) of the latter, and the enveloping mind and body are manifestations of Supreme Power. Shakta Darshana is therefore a form of Monism (Advaitavada). In creation, an effect is produced without change in the Producer. In creation, the Power (Shakti)“goes forth”(Prasharati) in a series of emanations or transformations, which are called, in the Shaiva and Shakta Tantras, the 36 Tattvas. >These mark the various stages through which Shiva, the Supreme Consciousness, as Shakti, presents Itself as object to Itself as subject, the latter at first experiencing the former as part of the Self, and then through the operations of Maya Shakti as different from the Self. This is the final stage in which every Self (Purusha) is mutually exclusive of every other. Maya, which achieves this, is one of the Powers of the Mother or Devi. The Will-to-become-many (Bahu syam prajayeya) is the creative impulse which not only creates but reproduces an eternal order. The Lord remembers the diversities latent in His own Maya Shakti due to the previous Karmas of Jivas and allows them to unfold themselves by His volition. It is that Power by which infinite formless Consciousness veils Itself to Itself and negates and limits Itself in order that it may experience Itself as Form.
(Shakti And Shakta, Avalon)

[Anonymous No.15260375]

So to me the primary difference at this level are in that there is no Purusha/Shiva or Jivatman.
Still emanations though, emanative fluctuations at any rate.

[Anonymous No.15260380]

>ITT: what the fuck am I reading

[Anonymous No.15260394]

>>15258181
Beautiful. Unironically thank you.

[Anonymous No.15260512]

>>15260048
>not calling it The Word , Logos or Way

[Anonymous No.15260678]

>>15260512
>if they can be said.....

[Anonymous No.15260929]

>>15257190
i tried reading a book claiming to be aztec philosophy once and in ten pages all i got was a less nuanced tao te ching with noble savages

[Anonymous No.15260931]

>>15258956
>spinoza for dummies

[Anonymous No.15260941]

>>15258181
Dear collegue,
Your application for the position of the head of the Faculty's Based department is granted.
Congratulations.
Signed, Anon.

[Anonymous No.15261003]

>>15258318
>A GOD DAMN BIG DIFFERENCE MAN
Can't you just *get* the gist of anon's post? Do you need me to read you a koan and draw parallels between Wittgensteins philosophy of language and Dogen Shobogenzo's intuitive zen to illustrate my point further?

[Anonymous No.15261661]

>>15258956
>(there's three of them, bounciness, twistiness, and weaviness).
Touching on this, pic related is where the Aztec Heart Sacrifice comes from. It's basically cosmic recycling.

Other Mesoamerican, and Paleosiberian, peoples operated under similar philosophical underpinnings, but the Aztec, even among the Nahuatl, were noted as being particularly bloodthirsty. Mayan blood sacrifice was like, one criminal a year and the sacrifice of actual human blood obtained by pricking the tongue, fingers, or genitals with pins to acquire droplets. The Aztec practice of hundreds of people per year was unique to them.

>>15259019
Sounds about right. My point is that Teotl cannot be understood AT ALL as an entity; you cannot have a conversation with it.

[Anonymous No.15261675]

>>15261661
what an evil race of people

[Anonymous No.15261736]

>>15261675
>t. christcuck

[Anonymous No.15261737]

>>15259199
Not the same anon. But sun god isn't everywhere it appears, although its better take christian sources on pagan religions with a pinch of salt. Teotl is everywhere, but teotl is not god. Or so I understood it.

[Anonymous No.15262043]

>>15258181
Decent post

[Anonymous No.15263148]

>>15258181
love this pasta

[Anonymous No.15263189]

>>15258181
This is based, but only if you were actually booty blasted when writing it

[Anonymous No.15263286]

>>15258181
clicked on the thread just for this

[Anonymous No.15263395]

>>15259052
yes, and mexican is a fancy word for spic

[Anonymous No.15263526]

>>15257516
>>15258893
>Tlalochian shinto

>>15258181
It really is all so tiresome, beneath contempt -- Setian circumambulations over a dead race horse -- He is risen, and all we ichthys have to do is imbibe His golden member, retrieve the lightening lost to Neptune's crushing depths, and the Fiend's butchery above

>>15258278
The ride never ends

>>15258377
>(((perennialists)))
Ontological coprophages have had their time.

>>15258584
Aztecs are Northern interlopers, with greater affinity cosmologically with their Northern brothers and ought to be compared more closely with and to them -- it's the difference between them, and the lunar/water (jade)/subterranean beyond and afterlife of the coastal and jungle Maya.

>you were literally defined as a person by the history of your people and their past
Ancestral blockchain

>>15258686
>would you say that Finno-Ugric Turks/Mongols share that process monism with their cousins in America?
This seems likely, and distinguishes a second southern/southwestern (or Antarctic/'Lemurian' ~ Polynesian) strain coming up from the southern hemisphere of the continent

>>15258852
>of Mazdayasna (Zoroastrianism) vs Vedism and how Soma and Haoma could have been two different strains of a drug, like Indica vs Sativa.
Blue Nile Lotus infusions in Egypt

>>15261661
>where the Aztec Heart Sacrifice comes from. It's basically cosmic recycling
Contradistinction to Egyptian funerary rites, with the seat of personhood-soul in the torso/belly, and the heart in particular

[Anonymous No.15263580]

>>15263526
>the seat of personhood-soul in the torso/belly
This was a Chinese thing as well iirc, but the interesting thing is that gut biome is a major influence on decision making.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6287679/

[Anonymous No.15263649]

First the O9A thread, now this... why is /lit/ so based and interesting all of a sudden?

[Anonymous No.15263673]

>>15263526
>This seems likely, and distinguishes a second southern/southwestern (or Antarctic/'Lemurian' ~ Polynesian) strain coming up from the southern hemisphere of the continent
Tell me more, and/or about the other overarching currents

[Anonymous No.15264041]

watch RahXephon

[Anonymous No.15264060]

so is this an actual coherent system of philosophy or just some curio for /lit/ people to feel cool about knowing?

[Anonymous No.15264074]

>>15264060
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

[Anonymous No.15264132]

>>15264060
It's basically people hearing "there are no things, only processes" and thinking it sounds cool

[Anonymous No.15264436]

>>15263673
Read Star.Ships by White, it's on Libgen
He's a woke liberal and that comes through but his analysis is overwhelmingly sound wrt Sundaland as Lemuria.
A similar but opposite hypothesis from the Indo-European side is Arctic Home In The Vedas which is also strongly researched, though 100 years old.

[Anonymous No.15264467]

>>15264060
Read the book (Aztec Philosophy: Understanding A World In Motion by Maffie). It's not even obscurant or long.
It's also more unique than we're making it sound.

[Anonymous No.15264497]

>>15264467
How about some original texts, do those exist? I don't want to read somebody's neo-aztec western interpretation.

[Anonymous No.15264499]

>>15263673
PicRel was a lush landmass during the last glacial maximum

[Anonymous No.15264508]

>>15264497
You can check Maffie's assertions yourself in PicRel

[Anonymous No.15264528]

>>15264508
now that's more like it

[Anonymous No.15264557]

>>15264528
I understand your impulse to make your own interpretation first, but he does actually quote relevant examples regularly in the text unlike some authors.
I'm interested to hear what you think of Cantares Mexicanos on your own before you take on Maffie, just to see if Maffie colored my perspective

[Anonymous No.15264584]

>>15264436
Atlantis and Lemuria exist.
>>15257646

[Anonymous No.15264832]

>>15264584
>Cantares Mexicanos
They don't. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.15265084]

>>15264584
>Atlantis and Lemuria exist.
They don't. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.15265158]

>>15264436
Thanks, I'm familiar with Tilak (not read though), this should be interesting. If you have more recommendations, keep em coming.

[Anonymous No.15265180]

>>15265158
Can't afford PicRel and it's seemingly not online. It's a large part of the framework of White's arguments, def want it

[Anonymous No.15265968]

>>15265180
This looks even more interesting, I've been thinking about this subject a lot and will definitely try to get my hands on it. Thanks for the recommendations anon

[Anonymous No.15266120]

>>15265968
I've been meaning to get to picrel for a looong while, maybe now's the time.
Link for that too
https://b-ok.cc/book/2617171/8f3e6f

[Anonymous No.15266143]

>>15265968
For something about the history of ideologies wrt myth and religion from Prehistory to present, a really awesome book (that uses a lot of Mircea Eliade among others as sources) is The Ecology Of Freedom by Bookchin

[Anonymous No.15266475]

Putos esquizos

[Anonymous No.15266529]

>>15266475
>Fucking schizo
Seriously dude? come on...

[Anonymous No.15266544]

>>15266120
Will put this on the list, I'm more interested in the mythological/metaphysical stuff for now but still something I'd like to get into as well eventually
>>15266143
Never read Bookchin, only vaguely familiar with him and not someone I'd thought about of checking out but since you mentioned Eliade I'll give it a try, thanks

What's your background if you don't mind me asking? Books/authors that shaped your views?

[Anonymous No.15266628]

>>15266544
>What's your background if you don't mind me asking? Books/authors that shaped your views?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking me, are you trying to see if I'm leftist because I like a Bookchin book?
I actually think Dugin's Fourth Political Theory and Last War Of The World Island should be read with EoF.
I'm a Pragmatist some days and a Fatalist on others.
The question doesn't mean anything.

If you mean what did I read as a young man that made me a certain way today, I read so many amazing things. If I had to name three from when I was a late teen, it'd be Psychedelic Shamanism by DeKorne, Master Game by DeRopp, and Bhagavata Purana/Isho Upanishad/Bhagavad Gita.
I'm not who I was in 1997-01

[Anonymous No.15266690]

Isha Upanishad is the best and shortest imo, to this day.

My dad had the Sanskrit of the opening invocation tattooed on his arm.
>Invocation: The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.

He was a centrist-libertarian fwiw

[Anonymous No.15266706]

I only worship aztec gods that make my penis the big penis

[Anonymous No.15266718]

>>15266544
I suppose in that light I ran into The Holographic Universe in the library somewhere in there and that had an effect too.
Nowadays I'm into the Reality of Reality and how consciousness is the part that's making the illusion of how we experience it.
For that you'd need Michael Graziano and Madhvacharya.

[Anonymous No.15266780]

>>15266544
>>15266690
My dad ate meat as well. If you read the Ramayana and so on without commentary, you see that ahimsa is a Nastika/Shramana influence from Jainism.

>>15266706
You'd like La Reina Del Sur, I watched with eng subs

[Anonymous No.15266829]

>>15266628
>are you trying to see if I'm leftist because I like a Bookchin book?
No not even, you just seem very well read in different varying subjects and I'm always on the lookout for interesting stuff. Dugin has also been on my to read-list for a while.
>I'm not sure I understand what you're asking me
Maybe it was a bit broad but you don't come across as the average /lit/izen, I was just curious how one gets into these waters, but you've done a decent job of giving me some impressions and new rabbit holes to dive into, I appreciate it

[Anonymous No.15266872]

>>15266829
My method has always been to write down the people mentioned in books I like and look into those authors, then also look into what the opposite position might be, and so on.
This became easier with wikipedia, archive.org, libgen/b-ok and Gutenberg.

Looking up stuff you read about on Wikipedia is great. You never find those source texts online, BUT it helps you know what to search.
How I found out about Susan Wise Bauer and Marc Bloch

[Anonymous No.15266891]

>>15266829
>average /lit/izen
I come and go. I've been coming in for a few weeks a year since like 2014.
I haven't had any kind of social media for a few years now, it gives me time to read and live life, to draw et c.
I check in on /x/ now and then too.

PicRel is one of my recent drawings.
I don't do a lot of them anymore. The internal drama needed for art is out of me these days. I just want to feed the squirrels lol

[Anonymous No.15268228]

>>15258956
>the gods EXPLICITLY made us with minds capable of arbitrarily divvying up Teotl, but not seeing it as it is; in the Maya myth, the gods outright wiped out proto-humans that couldn't do this
Consider how consciousness functions as caricature Artist. How it makes simple inaccurate sketches to keep us alive.
Consider evolution selecting for that as opposed to more accurate modelng that reveals the beauty of physics but lets you get eaten easier.

[Anonymous No.15268245]

>>15268228
Forgot pic, from Master Game by DeRopp.

[Anonymous No.15268892]

>>15257190
Olin?

[Anonymous No.15269576]

>>15266872
Yes I do it that way too but I think I'm a lot younger than you are and have only been reading the deeper stuff for 2 years now, so still much to discover.
You mean Bauer's self-education stuff? I read one of her history books a few years ago and thought it was...average, to be honest.

>>15266891
>I haven't had any kind of social media for a few years now, it gives me time to read and live life, to draw et c.
I deleted my stuff about a year ago as well, one of the better decisions I've made, it's such a time/energy sink.

>I just want to feed the squirrels lol
Life goals my man

[Anonymous No.15270979]

bump

[Anonymous No.15271006]

>>15264060
It's a coherent system. If you're a smoothbrain you might get mad when you see that this system is completely incompatible with Abrahamism, but again if you're not a smoothbrain you're not an Abrahamic anyways so the point is moot.

[Anonymous No.15271035]

>>15271006
>If you're a smoothbrain you might get mad when you see that this system is completely incompatible with Abrahamism
WTF I LOVE HUMAN SACRIFICE NOW

[Anonymous No.15271037]

>>15271035
ABRAHAM!!!

[Anonymous No.15271075]

>>15271037
I was being unironically bro

[Anonymous No.15271086]

>>15271075
Kierkegaard argues Abraham was too.

Do you think he was like "yeah it was just a prank Isaac, it's just mad lad bantz broooo" after though?

[Anonymous No.15271390]

>>15258181
Transcendent shit-for-brains post

[Anonymous No.15271423]

>>15260380
brainlet

[DoctorGreen !DRgReeNusk No.15271812]

>>15263526
>>15263580
interesting

[Anonymous No.15272063]

>>15258736
this is all i fucking need.

[Anonymous No.15272094]

>>15264497
nahuatl is a dead language

[Anonymous No.15272959]

>>15269576
>thought it was...average
Games and aims, Anon. (See Master Game for this ref).
I wasn't hunting for redpills with Bauer or Bloch or Peter Heather, even though Bloch and Heather sure have them.
Bauer does what it says on the tin, a very general overview. Sometimes that's what you're needing.

[Anonymous No.15273020]

>>15264497
the originals were translated and perverted by e*ropean "missionaries"/ideologues, twisting the system of beliefs to make it seem as if it was compatible with christianity and thus make the process of conversion a mere task of cultural synthesis and replace the old idols with the one true "god"

[Anonymous No.15273077]

>>15272959
True, it was useful in giving me some historical background, but it was a bit of a slog at times. I wasn't implying that if there's no redpills it can't be interesting.

[Anonymous No.15273191]

>>15272094
Nahuatl is still spoken by the Nahuatl people to this day.

>>15273020
No they weren't. At all. This was actually a big problem for the preservation of Aztec writing, as Christian Missionaries came upon this stuff and quickly realized (the Aztec, and Mesoamericans, had their own philosophers and scholars, I believe called "tlatlinime") that it was completely and utterly incompatible with Christianity. This is something Maffie goes over several times.

The only people who disagree with this are Anglophone Chicanx Aztlan types, ironically.

[Anonymous No.15274159]

>>15273191
>as Christian Missionaries came upon this stuff and quickly realized that it was completely and utterly incompatible with Christianity.
Interesting, do you know of any other religions that were/are incompatible with Christianity?

[Anonymous No.15274203]

>>15274159
The only one I can think of that can possibly intersect with Christianity without major metaphysical or doctrinal differences is Confucianism, and even that's a stretch. Taoism, Shinto, Buddhism, and Hinduism all have major metaphysical, ontological, epistemological, etc etc etc problems such that Yahweh physically cannot exist as described by Christianity if, say, the Taoists are right. Islam and Judaism both have doctrinal differences. I'm ignoring religions that are dead, such as Greco-Roman Polytheism.

It's worth noting that Judaism and Islam can be replaced with "Christianity" here and in the last post, the difference is merely historical (Islam didn't make it to the New World before Christianity).

[Anonymous No.15274264]

>>15274203
Sorry, "Christianity" can be replaced with Islam and Judaism, excuse me.

[Anonymous No.15274306]

>>15258584
>rather that through ritual the New King actually fuses himself (!) with the Old King, merging with and becoming him. An individual can thus be the continuation of multiple individuals (!), share their continuation with other individuals (!), and is defined by who they are continuing (!)
That's just fucking wrong though, like those idiots who thought that having a bunch of dudes jizz in the same woman at once would make them all biologically the father of the resulting child.

[Anonymous No.15274544]

>>15274306
Of course, biologically it is, but then personhood is bigger than just the body. The Maya weren't retards thinking that they could merge bodies or whatever. Rather, if you suddenly became an X, you not only had to demonstrate your continuity with the previous X, but had to finish their work. Rulers would have monuments and depictions of previous rulers altered to establish their continuity, and would make a great deal of effort to make it clear that they were just like their predecessor. Other societies do this, the Mesoamericans just did it on steroids.

The problem you're running into is that you're assuming that these people thought like you: they didn't. A person was (and still is) seen as more than just a body, or a mind, they were a decentralized collective whole that extended beyond the bounds of their body. A persons relations, their religious activity, their family, their occupation, even their place of residence. The space a man's body occupied was just as much a part of him as his actual biological body.

Think of Catholic Transubstantiation, which is the example McLeod uses (I don't like that he does, because while the metaphor works, the specific usage of Transubstantiation opens up other cans of worms) as an example of this. Ritual changes the nature of X into that of Y, even though physically X is still X. Now imagine that you can do this with more than just Bread, Wine, and the Body and Blood of Jesus.

[Anonymous No.15274657]

>>15274306
>That's just fucking wrong though,
>like those idiots who thought that having a bunch of dudes jizz in the same woman at once would make them all biologically the father of the resulting child.
Haha, yeah, haha, who would be stupid enough to believe that haha

[Anonymous No.15275031]

Basically the only thread worth reading on the whole board at the moment.

[Anonymous No.15275252]

>>15274203
You must not know much of non-advaita hinduism.

[Anonymous No.15275326]

>>15274306
>>15274544
>What is genetic heritage?
It's absolutely biologically true, and it's reinforced by the passing on of culture.

[Anonymous No.15276071]

>>15259330
Found this book in hardcover at my local library bookstore. Bought it for a buck. Huge fucking book too. Haven't read it, should I give it a go anon?

[Anonymous No.15276256]

>>15276071
Absolutely, same author did a brick of a book on Marco Polo too

[Anonymous No.15277830]

i hate this thread but will bump it because other faggots are enjoying it and it's on the edge of page 10

you're welcome faggots

[Anonymous No.15277888]

>>15261003
according to our resident Zen master Dogen was a fraud with a fake dharma transmission who started his own cult that has no real connection to actual Chinese Chan Buddhism

[Anonymous No.15277944]

>>15277830
Very Teotll of you.

[Anonymous No.15278131]

>>15257190
Is there a literary movement dedicated to Aztec aesthetics? Has there ever been one since their fall?

[Anonymous No.15278156]

>>15278131
I'm not sure what you mean by aesthetics here.
There is contemporary lit in nahua languages. A million people speak nahuatl.
https://www.ozy.com/the-new-and-the-next/why-these-mexican-writers-are-ditching-spanish-for-indigenous-languages/75743/

Try to clarify