You shouldn't read/buy contemporary translations. Daily reminder.

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Anonymous Sat May 2 11:05:10 2020 No.15253724 [Reply] [Original]

You shouldn't read/buy contemporary translations. Daily reminder.

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:09:43 2020 No.15253758

>>15253724
Is this really that common? I remember that new translation of The Odyssey, but are there more cases?
Considering there are many people in academia like Zuckerberg's sister, I don't doubt it.
Up to which point are translations reliable? 1960?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:16:10 2020 No.15253795 File: 80 KB, 306x306, 1587791978811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253724 >Not learning the language yourself >Not reading renaissance translations of the ancient classics in multiple Romance languages

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:17:14 2020 No.15253809 >>15253758 Prior to the 60s is a good rule of thumb, but I wouldn't be absolute about it. Not every modern translation is bad and some works simply aren't available otherwise. But if possible, prefer a translation that has stood the test of time.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:17:26 2020 No.15253811 >>15253724 I’ll trust contemporary translations because standards have changed

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:17:31 2020 No.15253813

>>15253758
>Is this really that common? I remember that new translation of The Odyssey, but are there more cases?
The question is, how can we trust these people? Who even has the time to check every translation up to the smallest detail? I mean, I used to check if the translation was closer to the original and compare it to others but I simply don't have the time to see if the """"translator"""" has perverted or not the text just to push her/his shit. No one has that time so what I'll do from now is not to buy contemporary translations.
>Up to which point are translations reliable? 1960?
If you want to be strict, yes. If you want to be a bit more flexible, 1990 seems like a safe point. Bloom started talking about academia's School of Resentment in the 90s, I believe.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:18:33 2020 No.15253820 >>15253811 What do you mean?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:18:55 2020 No.15253824 >>15253811 The standard has changed to "purposefully mistranslate the text in order to promote your personal political objectives."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:20:34 2020 No.15253832 >>15253758 >Considering there are many people in academia like Zuckerberg's sister, I don't doubt it. can i please get a quick rundown

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:21:17 2020 No.15253837 This has been a thing in biblical translations for decades, in which translators do their best to remove the text from its patriarchal context in order to promote feminism.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:22:18 2020 No.15253846 File: 65 KB, 667x1000, 61skwV7+4WL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253832

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:22:38 2020 No.15253849

>>15253820
Translation is an art; it’s largely an interpretation of the work and its intent, and I’m led to believe that contemporary translators tend to understand this better than those who believe things can be done 1:1 without any localization whatsoever. One common example is the translations of Dazai and Soseki’s works, which don’t hold up if you ask anyone that knows Japanese

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:23:56 2020 No.15253857 >>15253849 I'll take someone who wants to do their best to communicate the author's ideas rather than someone who spits on them and wants to replace them with their own politics.

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:24:08 2020 No.15253860

>>15253824
Would love to see that in action, but thinking a few individuals who would actually do this somehow represents all translators is purposely being obtuse. Also, you’re free to learn the original language if you’re so concerned about an agenda.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:25:15 2020 No.15253867 >>15253860 >Would love to see that in action, See >>15253837, NRSV for example.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:25:37 2020 No.15253871 >>15253857 Luckily I’ve never run into that because the people who claim so usually take issue with the translator’s political beliefs and not the translation itself

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:26:44 2020 No.15253879 >>15253867 Imagine being against bible translations not being used to justify patriarchal ideals instead of promoting morals for everyone to follow regardless of identity

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:26:46 2020 No.15253880 >>15253837 Even in Gnostic texts as well. Harper Collins' edition of the Nag Hammadi Library changes Son of Man to "Child of Humanity" or Father to "Parent", or He to "It." This a fucking disgrace.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:27:38 2020 No.15253884 >Leftist agenda suppressing free speech!!! >Stop reading leftist translations!!! >Fear the modern world!!!

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:28:24 2020 No.15253887

>>15253849
A translator's job is to translate. Not to pervert. Not to bring in accordance with current ideas, values, or prejudices. Not to make choppy style clean. Not to make complex ideas (allegedly) simple. A translator's job is to present a text as accurately as possible in the target language. I realize that there are other approaches to translation - but this is the one that I feel best serves both the original author and the reader.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:28:43 2020 No.15253891 >>15253832 https://www.unz.com/isteve/donna-zuckerberg-the-alt-right-menace-from-ancient-greece-and-rome/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:29:58 2020 No.15253899 >>15253879 A Christian would likely prefer an accurate translation to one that follows your preferred ideology.

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:30:18 2020 No.15253901

>>15253724

An even bigger issue in contemporary translation is the lack of editor's/translator's notes. Today's translated books will switch the language but do nothing to alert the foreign reader about all the cultural references that only a compatriot/contemporary of the author could possibly know about. It's fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:30:18 2020 No.15253902 >>15253887 Wonder if you’d keep saying that if it were made clear to you that writers have political opinions too

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:30:35 2020 No.15253908 >>15253887 >Not to make choppy style clean. I agree with everything but that. I don't mind translations doing this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:30:39 2020 No.15253909 >>15253887 I have noticed that the English translations I have read are much, much more interpretative than the translations in my own language.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:31:33 2020 No.15253911 >>15253899 Yeah, and a Christian would agree with me too because they’re not all the same

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:31:41 2020 No.15253913 >>15253884 Do you think there is anything wrong with preferring accurate translations to ones which infuse modern political ideologies?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:31:42 2020 No.15253914 >>15253902 What do you mean by this?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:31:48 2020 No.15253916 >>15253879 I'm pretty sure the people making these translations have no interest in promoting many of the morals found in the Bible.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:31:58 2020 No.15253918 >>15253902 >writers have political opinions too you mean the ones writing the original books that get translated? no shit, we want to hear their political opinions, not the translator's

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:32:11 2020 No.15253919

>>15253884
They're not even actually leftist. I don't even know how to call these cunts. "Liberal progressives"? Who gives a shit. But this goes beyond simply suppressing free speech. This is revisionism and propaganda disguising itself as accuracy and quality.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:32:52 2020 No.15253923 >>15253884 This but unironically.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:33:27 2020 No.15253930 >>15253911 >Yeah, and a Christian would agree with me too because they’re not all the same Christians are interested in the "Word of God", not in the word of a modern ideologue.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:33:48 2020 No.15253933 >>15253901 If there are no notes in the original text for references or cultural phenomena, why would there be any in the translation?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:33:48 2020 No.15253934 File: 13 KB, 1623x85, based.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:34:02 2020 No.15253936 >>15253902 I don't care. They should translate those opinions but translate them as accurately as possible. That's their job.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:35:02 2020 No.15253941 >>15253901 Not sure about this one. I see lots of notes in Penguin Classics.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:35:27 2020 No.15253943 >>15253813 who checks new printings of original works?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:35:32 2020 No.15253944 File: 138 KB, 752x524, 1570909950418.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Ah, I love modern translations. Like this rendering of Ovid's Metamorphoses from the Norton Classics edition.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:36:04 2020 No.15253945 File: 19 KB, 301x338, ldzu5p6gjol31.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253884

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:36:07 2020 No.15253946 >>15253918 Fantastic, most quality translations try already! You can however learn the target language because at the end of the day you’re still reading an interpretation.

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:36:21 2020 No.15253947

>>15253902
>Wonder if you’d keep saying that if it were made clear to you that writers have political opinions too
If I'm reading Epictetus, I want HIS political opinions. Not the political opinions of a modern progressive who wants to change his text to try to promote his own ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:36:34 2020 No.15253950 File: 171 KB, 774x598, 1570910031264.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253944 More of this brilliant work of poetry, faithfully rendered into English.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:37:34 2020 No.15253958 >>15253914 I’m willing to bet the anon obsessed with “accuracy” would get upset if the translation presented the writer’s opinions and they didn’t like them

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:38:19 2020 No.15253967 >>15253944 >>15253950 what the fuck

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:38:40 2020 No.15253969 >>15253724 So maybe this is why I found Oxford-translated books to be faggy and dull?? Maybe this is why they felt weak and lifeless?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:38:56 2020 No.15253971 >>15253947 The spook you’re worried about is still a spook

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:39:27 2020 No.15253977 >>15253946 >You can however learn the target language because at the end of the day you’re still reading an interpretation. unrealistic to think non-autists will learn a new language specifically to avoid reading translations.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:39:47 2020 No.15253979 >>15253944 >>15253950 >fuggeabout apollo >let the nymphs be the judges of our poetry slam This can't be real.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:39:54 2020 No.15253980 >>15253944 What Latin words were translated into "homey" and "fuggedabout" ?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:40:24 2020 No.15253985 >>15253958 Not really. I'm not a Marxist. If I wanted to read the Communist Manifesto, I would want to read his ideas, not >Capitalism, Ho

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:40:41 2020 No.15253990 >>15253958 ????

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:40:55 2020 No.15253991 >>15253979 It's real. Google Books preview: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Metamorphoses_Norton_Critical_Editions/gggqYlbD5t8C?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=homey

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:41:05 2020 No.15253995 >>15253884 We coming for u schlomo

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:41:14 2020 No.15253996 >>15253977 Most people don’t question or even think about translation accuracy to begin with, but I don’t understand why those that do think it’s not something to consider if it bothers them so much

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:41:39 2020 No.15254002 >>15253971 This is not an answer to my post.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:42:32 2020 No.15254009 >>15253958 But this makes no sense at all. He is reading the book for the writer's work in the first place. How could he be dissatisfied for getting what he wanted?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:42:49 2020 No.15254013 >>15254002 Because you’re worried about something that isn’t widespread in the slightest and already has a solution

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:43:13 2020 No.15254020 >>15253846 >that emily wilson blurb Haha. Chilling!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:43:14 2020 No.15254019 >>15253958 https://vocaroo.com/8kCHt4ELkj0

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:43:15 2020 No.15254021 If one desires to shrink something, one must indefinitely expand it; If one desires to weaken something, one must indefinitely strengthen it; Just let the prog trash have their day in the sun. Being the boss is the surest way to look the fool.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:44:00 2020 No.15254025 >>15254009 Because they assume the translation is wrong for bringing up topics they wouldn’t expect from the writer. This is pretty common in game localization, so I’m not surprised people do it with books as well.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:45:01 2020 No.15254037 >>15254019 Now post your own voice

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:45:36 2020 No.15254042 >>15254013 You are trying to change topics. You were defending infusing the ideology of the translator in the text.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:46:49 2020 No.15254052 >>15254042 where?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:47:50 2020 No.15254056 >>15254042 Where?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:49:27 2020 No.15254069 >>15254052 Here >>15253902 >>15253879

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:50:28 2020 No.15254076

>>15253933

>If there are no notes in the original text for references or cultural phenomena, why would there be any in the translation?

The original text is meant to be read by a different public, often members of the author's own cultural group. Language is only one aspect of this. Anybody who is not part of the originally intended readership is likely to miss out on some aspect of the text unless they devote their life to figuring out that culture. In the vast majority of cases, if you don't even know the language, you almost certainly won't know enough about the culture.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:50:42 2020 No.15254079 >>15254069 >15253902 I don't see such a defense

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:52:36 2020 No.15254090

>>15254069
The first quoted post doesn’t even mention the translator. As for the Bible post, I’m talking about the interpretation that comes from the translation. The Bible was used to defend ideology of the past, and now there are translations that don’t have that goal.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:53:30 2020 No.15254092 >>15254079 You were clearly trying to. Don't be dishonest. People were saying they want accurate translations and you were disagreeing with them.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:54:59 2020 No.15254104 >>15254092 >You not me >People were saying they want accurate translations and you were disagreeing I see no such disagreement

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:56:50 2020 No.15254122 >>15254079 >I don't want the translator to pervert and intentionally mistranslate the author's text >B-but writers have political opionions, too! Doesn't even make sense, tranny.

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:56:55 2020 No.15254124

>>15253758
The most egregious example I can think of is the Abe Foxman translation of Mein Kampf, which adds multiple paragraphs (supposedly in Hitler's own words) to each chapter, and removes multiple paragraphs from each chapter. Foxman's explanation of this is that he is adding what Hitler really meant to say, and removing what Hitler did not mean to say. This is in addition to some unusual (that is, comically ideologically charged) choices of translations of certain words and phrases.

It's worth noting that the Foxman translation is the only one accepted in academia, to the point where I've seen some historians argue that the Ford translation does not exist, and if one were to provide evidence of it that it would be a forgery anyways.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:58:25 2020 No.15254139 >>15254122 If you want a more rational argument: learn the language

Anonymous Sat May 2 11:58:26 2020 No.15254140

>>15254090
People were criticizing
>This has been a thing in biblical translations for decades, in which translators do their best to remove the text from its patriarchal context in order to promote feminism.

And you defended it by saying
>Imagine being against bible translations not being used to justify patriarchal ideals instead of promoting morals for everyone to follow regardless of identity

When it was said that Christians prefer accurate translations, you said:

>Yeah, and a Christian would agree with me too because they’re not all the same

Implying that some Christians would prefer a subverted translation to an accurate one. That they would prefer the word of a feminist to the World of God.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:59:50 2020 No.15254150 >>15254139 unrealistic.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 11:59:55 2020 No.15254151 >>15254139 Nah, I can just buy older translations.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:00:19 2020 No.15254153 >>15254140 Not all Christians are the same, right? Is that not a concept that makes sense to you, given the existence of Protestants?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:01:25 2020 No.15254158 >>15254122 >Doesn't even make sense he was assuming things about you, similarly to what you like you're doing to me >tranny obsessed

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:01:53 2020 No.15254164 >>15253944 That obviously isn't faithful at all, but it is hilarious. When will Classicist Hiphop emerge as a genre?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:01:55 2020 No.15254165 >>15254151 Which aren’t necessarily more “accurate”, they’re products of their time

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:02:00 2020 No.15254166

>>15254139
In your opinion not only there is nothing wrong with infusing your personal politics in a translation.
And it is wrong to want accurate translations? That if you want something without modern politics you should learn Koine Greek, Latin, Russian, Ancient Japanese, old German, etc?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:04:26 2020 No.15254190 File: 106 KB, 720x754, 1588409779575.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254020 Wilson is peak School of Resentment

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:05:45 2020 No.15254198 >>15254165 They tend to be more aesthetically pleasing and without perverting progressive nonsense, which is a better deal.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:06:01 2020 No.15254199

>>15254166
>In your opinion not only there is nothing wrong with infusing your personal politics in a translation.
Not my opinion at all, I take issue with the claim being used to justify not reading modern translations

>And it is wrong to want accurate translations? That if you want something without modern politics
Nothing wrong with that at all, but now I have to ask why the possibility of “modern politics” bothers you and not the “politics” that mire past translations

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:07:36 2020 No.15254215 >>15254198 I would disagree, they seem more concerned with a literal meaning than decent writing

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:08:15 2020 No.15254222 >>15254153 This might come as a surprise to you, but Christians worship Jesus Christ. They don't worship modern feminists. They want to hear what Jesus said, not what some modern feminist said.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:08:25 2020 No.15254225

>>15254164
In Fagles' Odyssey, at one point the phrase "cramping my style" is used (when he refuses to sail between Scylla and Charybdis unarmored). I remember reading it and laughing out loud. It makes perfect sense in context, but I've always wanted to see commentary by him going into autistic detail about why he chose that.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:08:42 2020 No.15254228

>>15254158
>he was assuming things about you, similarly to what you like you're doing to me
He assumed wrong. I was talking about the translator and his schemes, not about whether or not the author had political opinions.
>obsessed
More like a cringe mentality than an actual transexual.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:09:25 2020 No.15254234 >>15253724 Only modern translation that has been worth anything is Emily Wilson’s Odyssey

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:09:27 2020 No.15254236 >>15254222 Wasn’t Jesus a communist though? He’d probably support listening to feminists if he were still alive

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:10:10 2020 No.15254238 >>15254228 >He assumed wrong yes again similar to you

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:10:13 2020 No.15254240 >>15254165 >>15254199 Someone trying to the best of his ability to bring the most accurate possible translation of a work will likely do a better job than someone who wants to infuse modern politics in translation to subvert the text's meaning.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:11:24 2020 No.15254252

>>15253724
>You shouldn't read/buy contemporary translations.
you're very naive if you think the old ones were different. they were just altering the text to fit a christian dogma instead of a liberal one. sexual references were being censored out of ancient greek and roman texts as recently as last century and i'm talking about respectable scholarly publishers like loeb. this idea of the good old days when you could trust to "just be told the truth" is a complete delusion because every generation seeks to rewrite history to fit their dogma and you will have to be on your toes always, reading anything by anyone. treat this as an opportunity to stop being such a gullible idiot.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:11:43 2020 No.15254254 >>15254240 I’m not arguing otherwise

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:12:02 2020 No.15254257 >>15254236 This is what happens when you don't get accurate depictions of the Bible.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:12:56 2020 No.15254260

>>15254215
Quite the opposite. They were concerned with both aesthetic writing (Pope's Homer) and literal meaning (Lattimore's Homer). So you have many options to choose from, a vast catalogue of translations, all pre-1990. Contemporary translations are both shit in accuracy and writing.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:12:58 2020 No.15254261 >>15254257 Love too rail against the diversification of Christian thought in the modern world

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:14:00 2020 No.15254267 >>15254254 Then why in the hell are you defending translations like Emily Wilson's?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:14:11 2020 No.15254269 File: 14 KB, 255x247, 1587788980228.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254234 nice bait

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:14:36 2020 No.15254274 >>15254254 the problem is we have no idea what you are arguing

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:14:52 2020 No.15254276 >>15254225 That's amazingly out of place in a brilliant way. I really do wonder what made him choose that phrase.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:16:53 2020 No.15254291 >>15254267 Because her translation isn’t doing what you think it’s doing

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:17:32 2020 No.15254295 >>15254291 >>15254190

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:18:16 2020 No.15254298

>>15254252
>sexual references were being censored out of ancient greek and roman texts as recently as last century and i'm talking about respectable scholarly publishers like loeb.
Could you post examples?
I'm a philosophy reader and I didn't notice pre-20th century translations doing this compared to 20th century ones.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:19:12 2020 No.15254307 >>15254274 The idea that you should avoid modern translations because translators are entering ideology into the text (which isn’t a widespread issue at all)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:19:25 2020 No.15254309 >>15254291 In your opinion, her translation is accurate and is not trying to infuse modern politics?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:20:19 2020 No.15254318 >>15254295 You posted that screencap in the other thread and people already told you it doesn't mean what you think it means

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:20:21 2020 No.15254319 >>15254295 I don’t disagree with her definition of classics at all

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:22:36 2020 No.15254334 >>15254319 So you believe it's fine to pervert them just to push your progressive agenda?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:23:38 2020 No.15254344 >>15254318 No one replied such shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:24:38 2020 No.15254351 >>15254309 Yeah, and she definitely has the background to trust her expertise and decisions. I don’t think upholding past translations as the standard is a good idea at all given how much translation has changed in just the last century.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:25:51 2020 No.15254362 >>15254334 That doesn’t seem to be happening either in my eyes, care to explain why you see it that way?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:26:51 2020 No.15254370 >>15253901 Only if you get shitty editions. If anything i think notes go way too far a lot of the time instead of there being a lack.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:28:30 2020 No.15254376

>>15254351
>Yeah
lol you're delusional. She perverts lost of passages.
>she definitely has the background to trust her expertise and decisions.
So you're a shallow credentialist faggot?
>. I don’t think upholding past translations as the standard is a good idea at all given how much translation has changed in just the last century.
It hasn't fundamentally changed. All that's changed is the resent-infested academia mentality and the proliferation of toxic politics disguised as progressivism.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:29:50 2020 No.15254382

>>15254362
To quote myself from the other thread: She uses Southern American slang out of nowhere, blames Odysseus for everything, perverts the term "Greek from another city" to simply "Mr Foreigner" and transforms a passage into some open borders propaganda nonsensem and that's only for starters. It's pure undiluted shit. Anachronistic, revisionist, resentful. The shittiest translation of the Odyssey that you can possibly read these days.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:32:22 2020 No.15254400

>>15254298
i don't have any philosophy examples handy but you can look at out-of-copyright old editions of things like the comedies of aristophanes or the satyricon. iirc the old loeb satyricon just straight up omits vulgar lines from the translation, and the aristophanes ones will just obfuscate the language so that you'd never know that there used to be a joke about assfucking in there. bits to check include, for example, the part in "clouds" where the personification of bad argument is like "who are all our lawyers? faggots! who are all our actors? faggots!" and so on, or the extremely vulgar joke from the beginning of "peace" where two slaves are mashing shit to feed to the giant dung beetle and one wishes they were using the shit of gay men because it would have already been mashed by dicks.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:32:40 2020 No.15254404 >>15254376 Feel free to post comparisons of said perversions to other translations or even the source text.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:34:50 2020 No.15254419 >>15254382 So she used aspects of localization and brought up a political issue you don’t agree with? What does the original text say?

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:35:04 2020 No.15254421
File: 62 KB, 660x525, 1544417298831.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15254400
>where two slaves are mashing shit to feed to the giant dung beetle and one wishes they were using the shit of gay men because it would have already been mashed by dicks.
jesus

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:35:47 2020 No.15254428

>>15254276
I know, right? It perfectly describes what Odysseus is feeling in a succinct manner (he is not the type of man to attempt to engage in guile without also being prepared for a fight), but the phrase has a colloquial meaning that's also influenced by the fact that it is, in fact, old fashioned in a sense, in a "hip and with it as the kids these days say" manner.

>>15254298
This was a bigger thing in the Victorian period, and it definitely began to wane in its closing. A Latin example: The words Criso, crisare, and ceveo, cevere, were both listed in many dictionaries and translations as "to buck and jive ones hips akin to a faun in spring time". The Romans used these terms in a far more technical and vulgar manner, as crisare means "to actively fuck a penis with a vagina", and cevere means "to actively fuck a penis with an anus". There isn't really a 1:1 English translation of criso, crisare, as "fuck" is generally viewed as something men do (whereas only a woman could engage in crisans), but "to powerbottom" is a roughly good enough translation of cevere. Horace remained untranslated, I believe by law, for many decades because of his vulgarity.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:39:04 2020 No.15254443

>>15254139
The thing is, you don’t have to just learn the language, but learn the nuance of what the author means in the language. It’s hard enough sometimes to get that out of the same language you speak, especially if from a different time/place, doubly so for learning a whole new Lang.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:41:22 2020 No.15254453
File: 24 KB, 474x456, 28924172741.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15254400
>where two slaves are mashing shit to feed to the giant dung beetle and one wishes they were using the shit of gay men because it would have already been mashed by dicks.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:41:41 2020 No.15254457

>>15254419
Equating Odysseus seeking refuge from the Phaecians as being at all akin to demographic replacement and equating citizenship in a Greek City State as being at all similar to citizenship in an EU Member State are both so disingenuous as to be unworthy of argumentation. It's blatantly distorting the text to support a political agenda completely divorced from literally anything to do with the actual text.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:44:23 2020 No.15254475 File: 271 KB, 753x980, female circumcision deceit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253724

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:44:52 2020 No.15254479 >>15254457 Post the actual text, your commentary means nothing

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:45:41 2020 No.15254485 File: 509 KB, 1064x1211, 1562432944161.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254457 this

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:46:47 2020 No.15254494

>>15254421
>>15254453
aristophanes is amazing, one moment there's talking animals singing a funny song and the next it's gay jokes, then maybe a serious conversation about the purpose of art or an extended joke about selling small children into sex slavery based on a pun between the greek words for "piglet" and "underage vagina". it's a wild ride.

Anonymous Sat May 2 12:46:57 2020 No.15254497

>>15253724
>Benjamin's Task Of The Translator asserts that the best translations are those which are as faithful and transparent to the original as possible, regardless of any imported grammatical errors or clumsy phrasing
>Despite being one of the most important figures in the (((Frankfurt))) School, the left says "fuck that" and starts taking huge creative liberties with translations of past texts

What did (((they))) mean by this?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:47:56 2020 No.15254508 File: 118 KB, 883x240, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Here's the opening of Book 22, Wilson translation on the left. >playtime is over

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:48:10 2020 No.15254509 >>15254497 What are (((You))) trying to imply?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:48:48 2020 No.15254513 >>15254497 Subversion. Plain and simple. Revisionism leads to cultural genocide eventually, and it's within their goals to undermine the West.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:49:51 2020 No.15254522 >>15254508 how can anyone defend this hack? TOP KEK

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:50:38 2020 No.15254528 >>15254508 a la vista baby

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:51:31 2020 No.15254534 >>15254508 The horror, how will I ever recover from the use of English colloquialisms

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:55:04 2020 No.15254558 >>15254534 We'll do just fine, because no one is buying her book, and no one cares about nor wants her commentary. We read Homer to read Homer, not Emily Wilson.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:57:02 2020 No.15254567 >>15253813 >The question is, how can we trust these people? No you cant.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:58:23 2020 No.15254577 File: 1.14 MB, 1242x2127, 1569175419000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Do you guys want to read some proper comedy? Here you go. https://lithub.com/why-i-gave-homer-a-contemporary-voice-in-the-odyssey/

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:59:14 2020 No.15254585 I'm a fan of Stoicism. One thing I notice is that some people do want to change Stoicism to make it more progressive. For example, by saying that in Stoicism, casual sex is not necessarily not virtuous (from very basic assumptions, it is).

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:59:27 2020 No.15254587 >>15254558 https://el.wikisource.org/wiki/Οδύσσεια This is reading Homer for Homer.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 12:59:41 2020 No.15254590 File: 8 KB, 241x209, 423423423434234234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254508 what is this shit?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:00:31 2020 No.15254596 File: 49 KB, 322x480, 3379228488_6d8e703298.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254508 >Playtime is over.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:00:42 2020 No.15254601 >>15254577 She got BTFO in the comments.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:02:05 2020 No.15254610 File: 15 KB, 655x138, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254534 It is objectively worse

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:02:54 2020 No.15254616 >>15254291 lol you fucking piece of shit

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:03:50 2020 No.15254624

>>15254610
In an interview she explicitly stated she disagreed politically with Homer and made little jabs like this at him throughout her translation. She thinks the Cyclops being a monster is an example of racist "colonial attitudes" rather than an actual fucking mythological monster.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:04:55 2020 No.15254634 File: 18 KB, 474x395, 417592781.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254624 >women scholars

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:04:56 2020 No.15254633 >>15254351 Imagine being a rancid little lying coward like this

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:05:08 2020 No.15254637 >>15254577 >American, British and European policies towards immigrants and refugees is the reason to dumb down The Odyssey My brain really hurts right now.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:06:23 2020 No.15254647 File: 29 KB, 450x418, 1539899747360.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254577 >decide i want to at least hear her justifications >first sentence literally mentions Trump i am hesitant to bother reading on

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:06:40 2020 No.15254649

>>15254497
>retard reads a screenshot of a shitpost on /lit/, takes it as his new fundamental paradigm and unconditioned principle of reality
What did the terminally online and alienated posturing 20 year old undergraduate anon mean by this, and why didn't he spend his time reading Plato instead?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:09:46 2020 No.15254669 >>15254649 Nah, he's right. Bloom was an insider in academia and he was talking about this kind of shit since the early 1990s.

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:11:36 2020 No.15254675

>>15253724
With a few books I actually enjoying reading a variety of translations instead of just one. I’ve read Homer in 3 different translations over the past 5 years and the next time I reread him I plan on selecting a different translation again. Same with Flaubert. But most of the translations I read are pre 60s, except one of the Homeric translations. If you don’t read the language, I think you get more out of varying the translator with each reread, as different translators get at different parts of the original text.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:12:42 2020 No.15254681 >>15254508 >NOOOOOOO! YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE JOLLITY AND COLLOQUIALISM OF THE ORIGINAL ORAL TRADITION! HOW AM I TO KNOW THAT IT IS SERIOUS ANCIENT GREEK LITERATURE IF IT ISN'T WRITTEN IN ANACHRONISTIC 19TH CENTURY ENGLISH?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:13:51 2020 No.15254685 >>15254681 This but unironically.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:14:44 2020 No.15254694 >>15254494 Aristophanes go on cum town

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:15:09 2020 No.15254697 >>15254681 Which words are anachronistic, anon? Which words were difficult for you?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:16:29 2020 No.15254706 >>15254494 Man, and this entire time I've only known him through tame translations. Thanks anon

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:16:40 2020 No.15254707 >>15254697 Things like "bristling" and "thundering" when you could just SAY whatever is you're trying to say instead of dress it up with bullshit language to make it look 2DEEP4U

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:18:41 2020 No.15254720 >>15253724 Or old ones, they're just as bad if not worse. Translate them yourself from the original.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:19:18 2020 No.15254727 >>15254707 They are saying what they are trying to say.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:19:20 2020 No.15254728 >>15254707 >"bristling" and "thundering" It's called poetry, anon. The language contained within a stanza tends to not explicitly say things in simple terms.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:19:54 2020 No.15254730 File: 1.22 MB, 871x867, 769.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254707

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:20:45 2020 No.15254734 >>15254728 Here's the thing, if an idea is good it will stand on its own. When you have to hide it? It immediately means you're insecure and dressing it up the avoid criticism

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:21:13 2020 No.15254739

>>15253758
of course it's true but it's neglecting to mention that the reason this is os popular with modern students is because a lot of classical translations are already undebatably still standard guideposts.
the feminist revisionists do exist but it will be a long time before their schlock is delivered to students as introductory or broadly accepted, it's just part of the discourse of academics

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:22:26 2020 No.15254750 >>15253813 just google the translator and check the hair color

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:22:53 2020 No.15254753

>>15254624
>She thinks the Cyclops being a monster is an example of racist "colonial attitudes" rather than an actual fucking mythological monster.
but that's literally true and not even controversial. the greeks were colonizing the whole mediterranean and encountering other cultures that they considered barbaric and polyphemus is a caricature of these cultures, following a barbaric anti-xenia where he not only doesn't feed his guests but in fact eats them. he's not some generic monster from a video game, it's a specific cultural joke.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:23:38 2020 No.15254759 >>15254124 They're hysterical to the point of religious psychosis on Hitler, not surprising.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:24:56 2020 No.15254772 >>15253846 >a chilling account of trolling misogyny, racism, and bad history proliferated online by the alt-right hey, that's me!

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:24:58 2020 No.15254773 >>15254734 Do yourself a favor and look up the difference between poetry and prose.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:25:08 2020 No.15254775 >>15254753 do the Greeks themselves ever talk about Cyclopes being a reference to foreigners or is this just your fat ugly dyke professors

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:25:40 2020 No.15254780 >>15254707 nice bait, here's your (you)

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:26:43 2020 No.15254788 >>15254318 >it doesn't mean what it is literally saying You are a pathetic whining faggot

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:27:37 2020 No.15254797

>>15254728
Dude "bristling" and "thundering" are both explicit. Arrows bristling just means they're sticking out in a bunch from the quiver. Thundering means he yelled in a booming voice. It's barely poetic language, you could easily see these being used in a prose translation.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:28:41 2020 No.15254803 >>15254707 What's the greek like? It's pointless to discuss this without comparison to the original

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:31:52 2020 No.15254826

>>15254697
It's not so much that I find the words difficult to parse, as it is the general feel of the right-hand side translation. In order to give an example, which will hopefully lead to our discussion being something other than thinly veiled insults towards each others intellect, the particular line
"flashing shafts before him" sounds totally gay, like there is a parade of cocks in front of him, in much the same way that all 19th century english sounds gay. Hence my characterization, which I do believe is accurate, and will remain believing is accurate until you provide compelling counterpoints.

>>15254727
Is Odysseus gay?

>>15254728
But those are simple terms.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:38:43 2020 No.15254857 >>15254775 yes, homer does. nobody needs to explain the reference, it's explicit in the text already when he says the cyclopes reject greek religion and custom.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:40:15 2020 No.15254866 >>15254857 She still avoided calling the cyclopes brutes or violent.

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:41:37 2020 No.15254877

From a modern perspective, focus on predominantly Causcausian, male fantasy dominated, and wealthy stories "the Greeks" are racist, sexist, classist, ableist, violent, preemphatic, lacking in empathy, irrational, and ultimately useless. No reason to read, no reason to give credence. Put it back on the shelf with the rest of your "classics

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:42:44 2020 No.15254887 >>15253724 >>15253758 Just hope everyone reading this thread has noticed that not a single person could give this guy a clear, practical answer has to whether or not this had happened outside of that Odyssey translation.

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:43:44 2020 No.15254892

>>15254866
It is good towards its sheep, which mirrors the Odysseus/Argos passage, which, within the work itself, gives the Cyclop a more nuanced character. Giving a less genre-fictionally retarded version of the Cyclop, where it isn't just le bad monster killed by le epic Geralt of Ithaca xD shows profound artistic sensitivity.

Wilson confirmed for best translator of all time.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:44:27 2020 No.15254898 >>15254877 Who should replace the Greeks and Romans?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:46:56 2020 No.15254909 >>15254898 Toni Morrison

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:47:15 2020 No.15254911 >>15254857 >the cyclopes reject greek religion and custom. That doesn't make it a foreigner instead of a mythical monster

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:49:30 2020 No.15254928 >>15254892 The idea of a bad monster is about 100 times more interesting than the idea that 'le foreigners arent bad just different'. That's not artistic sensitivity, that's mindless procedural repetition of pseudo-religious dogma.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:50:47 2020 No.15254943 File: 6 KB, 208x249, 1562440844276.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254892 >She perverts the text to absurd levels >Wilson confirmed for best translator of all time. You baitfags never cease to amaze me.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:52:21 2020 No.15254954 >>15254928 The concept of LE EPIC GOOD WARRIOR vs TEH EVIL BAD GUY is about is low-brow as it gets. Are you really defending this? Would you be defending this if it wasn't MUH SACRED GREEKS. MUH ANCIENT TEXTS

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:54:20 2020 No.15254966 >>15254954 Yes. It's pure and sacred because they were the first to do it. Seethe more, faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:54:26 2020 No.15254967 >>15254866 i don't care about what she did, i don't plan on reading her translation. i just think you're a pseud for getting outraged at obvious and uncontroversial interpretations of books you probably haven't even read.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:55:50 2020 No.15254981 File: 46 KB, 588x328, f6c2808d54cf1242b9ca9d220c2c5581.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15254877 >Causcausian

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:55:55 2020 No.15254985

>>15254509
It's (((satire))), but you probably wouldn't get it.

>>15254513
oh wow, he actually went for the bait.

>>15254649
I graduated years ago, punk. And I literally took a linguistics course in translation in university and this was one of the big debates in the field , IE. revising "problematic" aspects of texts to ensure people can still read them for the valuable parts of their texts without being offended, or preserving every aspect of the text's meaning and then figuring out after the fact whether or not their racism/sexism/whatever alters the meaning in any serious way.

Also, sounds like you got told to start with the greeks and never graduated lmao. Reply to me when you're aware of current trends in academic thought rather than merely deferring to stale antiquities like your average hivemind /lit/ loser.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:56:14 2020 No.15254987 >>15254954 Are you a fan of Game of Thrones and The Last Jedi?

Anonymous Sat May 2 13:56:54 2020 No.15254993

>>15254928
You primarily read genre fiction, mostly sci-fi and fantasy. Your opinions, therefore, are of no consequence. Think upon the Argos point I made, and see if you can come up with something to counteract it. Until then:
Me: 1
You: 0 (-2 actually, for reading sci-fi and fantasy).

>>15254943
>maybe if I use the words "perverts to absurd levels" he wont notice the lack of argument

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:57:16 2020 No.15254995 >>15254985 Off yourself, you're wasting the oxygen my houseplants need.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:57:17 2020 No.15254996 >>15254985 That's an obvious troll post

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:57:41 2020 No.15254999 >>15254967 I wouldn't even care about her perverting the text if I hadn't read the book in the first place, nigger.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:57:54 2020 No.15255000 >>15253724 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KqkyNnm7Bc Here is an example of how Aristotle was changed completely. Not OP.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 13:58:59 2020 No.15255008 >>15254993 Take your meds, Emily. You got BTFO numerous times.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:01:07 2020 No.15255019 File: 839 KB, 450x402, 1367258246351.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Im in STEM academia and we've got our own problems, but are things really this bad over at the humanities? Should we just go full Pol Pot and start over?

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:01:21 2020 No.15255020

>>15254985
>I graduated years ago, punk. And I literally took a linguistics course in translation in university and this was one of the big debates in the field , IE. revising "problematic" aspects of texts to ensure people can still read them for the valuable parts of their texts without being offended, or preserving every aspect of the text's meaning and then figuring out after the fact whether or not their racism/sexism/whatever alters the meaning in any serious way.

My dad works at the translation department at Yale, he said that it is not true, so GG I guess, you just got SERVED.

No but honestly, name 5 examples of woketard translations, and Wilson's Odyssey is already taken.

>Also, sounds like you got told to start with the greeks and never graduated lmao. Reply to me when you're aware of current trends in academic thought rather than merely deferring to stale antiquities like your average hivemind /lit/ loser.

Holy fuck, sorry for hitting that nerve, I was just messing around.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:01:46 2020 No.15255027 >>15254995 houseplants are not a substitute for companionship, anon. get some friends. >>15254996 yeah, and so was mine. It's very easy for things on here to get... lost in translation boo hiss

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:02:16 2020 No.15255035 >>15255020 >My dad works at the translation department at Yale My Dad works for the translation department at Harvard and he said your Dad is gay and loves sucking undergrad cock.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:02:23 2020 No.15255036 >>15255008 No.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:02:59 2020 No.15255046 >>15255020 >No but honestly, name 5 examples of woketard translations Have you ever heard of something called "the bible"? it's pretty obscure so you probably won't know it desu

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:03:37 2020 No.15255050 >>15254993 lol. My point was that repeating prog boilerplate is so fucking inane that a monster written straight as a horrifying creature is much more interesting than it.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:05:23 2020 No.15255062 >>15254911 when you're a greek, and you sail far away from home and meet someone who don't share your religion and custom, you've just met a foreigner. that's what a foreigner is.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:06:32 2020 No.15255076 >>15255035 FUCK. >>15255046 No, I haven't heard of woketard translations of that, which one is that?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:07:56 2020 No.15255085 >>15255062 No it's actually just a monster, and the monster not sharing your customs adds to its monstrosity.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:08:03 2020 No.15255087
File: 13 KB, 657x527, Apu.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Does anyone have the translation of the autobiography of a female saint, which sought to 'modernize' it and actually translate 'God' as something else to make it less religious?
I forgot what it was called.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:09:11 2020 No.15255093 >>15254508 which translation is right from?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:09:44 2020 No.15255099 >>15254999 then why are you getting comically outraged at basic observations about the characters? i can't believe "polyphemos is a foreign barbarian" would be a controversial take to anyone who actually read the odyssey. are you illiterate?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:11:17 2020 No.15255112 >>15255099 >I can't believe people would think things other than what I've been instructed You are the most tedious people in existence

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:12:28 2020 No.15255122 >>15254139 Yeah why do people spend a decade in school learning these ancient languages and the nuanced historical contexts required to frame them in order to translate ancient works as their job, when I can just do that myself at home?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:12:32 2020 No.15255123 >>15255076 The good news bible for one is an overtly simplified translation meant for ESL tards that massively softens the hardass-edge of god, especially in the old testament.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:13:04 2020 No.15255129 >>15255000 I wonder how Aristotle would react to this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:13:20 2020 No.15255130 >>15255000 based and check'd. Fuck revisionists.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:14:22 2020 No.15255136 >>15255019 >but are things really this bad over at the humanities? Yes. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:15:05 2020 No.15255143 >>15255085 that would just make it a foreign monster. looking weird just adds to his foreignness. there is no contradiction between "foreign" and "inhuman".

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:15:19 2020 No.15255146 Sounds like a butthurt /pol/cel

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:16:23 2020 No.15255158 >>15255019 Yeah. Some decades ago, there was something called the "Canon Wars". The wrong side won and this is the result of that. >>15255087 Lol Why would someone do this? Saints are mega religious people who lead their life for God.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:16:28 2020 No.15255159

>>15254775
Of course they are foreigners. That is literally what they are in the text: a monstrous foreign race, with their own society and culture (pastoralists who drink milk not wine, don't work the land, and don't honor guests).

It doesn't have to be some sort of allegory: they are literally foreigners. (They could at some point have been presumed to actually exist--the greeks didn't have modern HBD denial)

Perhaps you are so caught up in political discourse that you think it would be "racist" to depict a foreign race as monstrous man-eaters, and you want to prove that they were just thoughtless monsters, rather than a strange race of monstrous men. The Greeks evidently didn't think about this at all. E.g. they jsut assumed, of course, there are dangerous monster-people out there that you don't want to encounter. They are foreign monsters, it's not a dichotomy.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:16:33 2020 No.15255160 File: 197 KB, 810x1080, 1569179650961.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15255087 kek you mean this one? These fucks are insane.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:18:11 2020 No.15255175 >>15255087 Nevermind, i found it. It's the Interior Castle by St. Teresa of Avilla, and the translation is by Mirabai Starr. >>15255160 Yeah that one

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:18:41 2020 No.15255182

>>15255112
you don't need special instruction to understand that a guy saying "hey dude from far away, over here we don't do that greek shit" is a foreigner. it's just normal reading. and you don't "think things other" than me - you haven't thought about this book at all.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:20:23 2020 No.15255192 File: 74 KB, 1120x1043, 1588312812510.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15255160 why is this legal?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:21:37 2020 No.15255205 >>15255182 But the point is that Wilson avoided calling the monster a violent brute. She removed that part because it didn't fit with her agenda.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:21:37 2020 No.15255207 >>15255143 >>15255159 It is a monster first and a foreigner second. The Greeks depicted foreigners, this is a monster.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:22:13 2020 No.15255213 Walter Kauffmann's translations of Nietzsche are regarded as pretty good, but he cant help but shove his own retarded opinions in the footnotes, trying desperately to sanitize and liberalize an author that is blatantly hostile to liberalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:22:26 2020 No.15255215 >>15255160 Kek. They make money off of this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:22:39 2020 No.15255219 >>15255182 You will never think a single thing that hasn't been vetted for you

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:23:37 2020 No.15255224
File: 7 KB, 239x211, 1559546849679.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15255160
why? how fucking hard is it to translate the literal meaning? why call it translation if you're changing the literal meaning of the text? what the fuck is wrong with these people?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:23:59 2020 No.15255229 >>15255160 lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:24:46 2020 No.15255236 File: 586 KB, 996x820, emilywilson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15253724 Also remember to not read translations made by women.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:25:25 2020 No.15255242 >>15255160 Jesus Christ became the Cool Hippie

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:25:41 2020 No.15255245 >>15253724 the worst is the version of mein kampf where he saves the jews

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:25:51 2020 No.15255251 >>15255219 you are yet to think a thing at all, retard that got pleb filtered by an old fairy tale.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:26:47 2020 No.15255262 File: 39 KB, 750x751, Fate sealed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I used to mock the Christians and Muslims who beat children for getting recitations in ancient languages wrong, but now i truly see how necessary it was.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:26:52 2020 No.15255263

reading a translation that was translated by a contemporary of the original writer is probably the best option imo. it gives you a flavour of how that writer was read by his contemporaries and how the language felt like at that time. part of what a translation needs to convey is that this was written both by a foreign culture and in a foreign time (with its own language). a lot of translators nowadays forego one or both.

that's part of the reason why garnett's translations are timeliness. she captured them as they are in that time. whatever her minor mistakes were (which have been corrected with revised editions). florio's montaigne has the necessary flavour of that baroque renaissance atmosphere. moncrieff's proust. etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:27:28 2020 No.15255267 AVOID OXFORD. THEY ARE LIKE THIS.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:27:39 2020 No.15255272 >>15255251 Wrack your mind for a belief that isn't specifically condoned by Harvard

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:27:55 2020 No.15255277

>>15255175
>The 2006 book Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert recognizes St. Teresa as "that most mystical of Catholic figures" and alludes to St. Teresa's Interior Castle as the "mansions of her being" and her journey as one of "divine meditative bliss". Gilbert was raised a Protestant Christian, but her book describes her path to God through yoga.
I... Wonder what the saint would think of this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:28:57 2020 No.15255290 >>15255277 Given how she was an Inquisition-era Spanish nun, she'd probably form a crucifix and scream heresy. Then she'd immediately go to a confessional to purge her soul.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:29:52 2020 No.15255300

>>15255160
Now for the part that I'm sure will shock you :

>Daughter of the counter-culture, Starr was born in New York in 1961 to secular Jewish parents who challenged institutionalized religion and were active in the anti-war protest movement of the Vietnam era. In 1972, the family embarked on an extended road trip that led them to settle in the mountains of Taos, New Mexico. There, they embraced an alternative, "back-to-the-land" lifestyle, in a communal effort to live simply and sustainably, values that remain important to Starr to this day.

But it doesn't end here.

>Mirabai Starr, MA, is an author, translator of the mystics, and a leading voice in the emerging interspiritual movement, using fresh, lyrical language to help make timeless wisdom accessible to a contemporary circle of seekers.

>She has received critical acclaim for her revolutionary new translations of Dark Night of the Soul, by 16th-century Spanish mystic St. John of the Cross; The Interior Castle and The Book of My Life, by St. Teresa of Avila; and The Showings of Julian of Norwich.

>Formerly an adjunct professor of philosophy and world religions at the University of New Mexico for 20 years, Starr is a certified grief counselor and speaks and teaches nationally and internationally on the teachings of the mystics, contemplative practice, and grief as a spiritual practice. Her talks and retreats incorporate silent meditation, interspiritual chanting, sacred poetry, and deep dialog. She blogs for the Huffington Post.

>She blogs for the Huffington Post.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:31:32 2020 No.15255318 >>15255300 baka wonder what Guenon (pbuh) would've thought of her

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:32:36 2020 No.15255331 >>15255160 >loaded religious vocabulary Jesus Christ... I mean, uhhh son of Palestine? I dunno.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:33:49 2020 No.15255341 >>15255300 > Starr was born in New York in 1961 to secular Jewish parents Every. Damn. Time.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:35:53 2020 No.15255362

>>15255207
no. the whole problem with polyphemus is not that he has one eye or whatever, but that he refuses to follow greek custom. that's why there's an elaborate scene of odysseus performing the traditional greek plea for hospitality only for polyphemus to go "we don't do that zeus shit here". it's not about being chased by a weird monster, it's about a failed social interaction with some dude who they expected to be civilized (he's just a shepherd, remember?) but who turns out to be a barbarian. the charybdis is a monster, this is a savage.

>>15255205
i'm not defending the translation, i haven't read it. i'm defending that interpretation of the scene.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:36:20 2020 No.15255366 File: 123 KB, 1080x1012, Crying Soyjack.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>15255331 >Read book by a Catholic Saint >It's full of Catholic language what the fuck man

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:36:58 2020 No.15255371 >>15255272 here's one: mass literacy is a failed project, as evidenced by you

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:38:02 2020 No.15255386 >>15253913 >>15253919 Pure ideology. Show me the works in question. >>15254610 The left translation is better. "Storm tossed great odysseus?" Really?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:38:24 2020 No.15255389 Didn't Plato advocate for teaching schoolchildren censored/altered versions of Homer's poems?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:39:12 2020 No.15255396 >>15255371 Cliche'd pseudo-elitism typical of midwit academics, you'd drop it as soon as it were applied to a nigger

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:39:52 2020 No.15255403 >>15255389 Yeah Just one more sign that (((Plato))) is the father of totalitarianism

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:39:52 2020 No.15255404 >>15255389 I hate Plato.

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:40:01 2020 No.15255405

It seems to me that most of these modern translators wish to make a commentary on a work, but because no one would bother to read it (how many people would read a 20-something literally who's opinion on plato?), they simply insert their own views and opinions into the work and call it translation.
This begs the question of course, how do we fix this problem? Perhaps some sort of peer-review system of translations, similiar to works of science? I honestly don't know where to begin with this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:40:28 2020 No.15255407 >>15255389 These aren't versions for kids, though. These are taken seriously, taught in universities and sold as quality items.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:40:54 2020 No.15255415 >>15255405 We fix it by burning down every university in the world and starting over

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:41:13 2020 No.15255420 >>15255396 no i wouldn't. the education system has failed the niggers, and you.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:41:35 2020 No.15255424 >>15255386 >t. insufferable low IQ nigger.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:41:43 2020 No.15255426 >>15255407 I'm pretty sure in the republic the citizens were never supposed to read the originals.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:42:31 2020 No.15255435 >>15255420 Your concept of education is applying tepid progressive concepts to ancient texts, your mind is not only useless, but a sort of ridiculous swamp of idiocy.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:42:49 2020 No.15255439 >>15255405 >This begs the question of course, how do we fix this problem? We read older translations.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:44:56 2020 No.15255465 >>15255439 What happens when new works are discovered?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:45:30 2020 No.15255471 >>15255465 Then we leave them untranslated until the Apocalypse destroys modern academia.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:46:24 2020 No.15255479 >>15253860 >Would love to see that in action why are you even on a literature board?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:47:04 2020 No.15255486 >>15255415 No, we must have our own march through the institutions, and subvert the subversives from within.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:49:12 2020 No.15255504 >>15255435 >tepid progressive concepts >like opposition to mass literacy Not him but you seem retarded

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:49:31 2020 No.15255508 >>15255435 and your mind is completely blank as you slowly move your eyes across classics that 4chan told you to read. the perfectly illiterate fan of the abstract idea of reading.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:50:13 2020 No.15255513 >>15253837 The promotion of homosexuality in recent translations is far less defensible than stuff like de-gendering certain terms.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:50:19 2020 No.15255515 >>15255504 If you could follow the conversation you'd understand what progressive concept is being referred to

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:54:02 2020 No.15255544

>>15255508
Unlike you I can actually read something and try to understand what it means, my mind isn't completely routed through paths that dictate what I am allowed to think. You will never understand this, it is already too late, you're not even really human, you just react like some vaguely sentient organism to impulses. You feel a dull sense of accomplishment when you manage to paraphrase an opinion your mind has registered as prestigious, and that is the extent of your ability to think.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:55:50 2020 No.15255557 >>15255513 >The promotion of homosexuality in recent translations What?

Anonymous Sat May 2 14:58:20 2020 No.15255569

>>15255396
Not that guy but I think you are caught up in modern racial politics. It's a complete ignorance of this ideology that allows Homer to write about the Cyclopes without thinking at all about whether they are a caricature of foreigners. They are a weird mythical race who share some characteristics with actual foreigners the Greeks had encountered.

>>15255435
Even if you read it as representing foreign people the Greek were encountering through colonization or exploration, that is not even a progressive view until you place a value judgement on it. It's progressive if you say "the Greeks were BAD because they depicted milk drinking foreigners as giant one-eyed cannibals." You could also read it as "wow, the Greeks were totally redpilled on human biodiversity." It sort of reminds me of Hanno the Navigator supposedly encountering gorillas and calling them "a rude race of people."

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 14:59:47 2020 No.15255579 >>15255515 nah i read it and you definitely still seem like a tard

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:01:05 2020 No.15255594 >>15255569 I think the people saying the cyclop is not a monster are trolling

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:03:02 2020 No.15255606 >>15255569 The entire notion that the monster is a caricature of foreigners is unfounded. A monster having some attributes of foreigners does not indicate that it is supposed to represent them in any way.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:04:27 2020 No.15255619 >>15255579 In reality you made a mistake and are now doubling down, I'm sure you'll continue to do so in your ebin unpunctuated affectation of aloofness.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:07:10 2020 No.15255645 >>15255267 are they??

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:07:14 2020 No.15255647 >>15253880 Which translation do you recommend? That's fucking putrid.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:09:58 2020 No.15255673

>>15255544
>Unlike you I can actually read something and try to understand what it means
and that's why you failed to parse some basic passages of the odyssey, as evidenced by your earlier posts? that's why your only opinion on what a scene means is "i dunno but it's not what the sjws say"?

like, your really desperate attempts to hurt me can't really work. it doesn't really do anything to me when you tell me i'm some generic sjw liberal, because i actually disagree with those people on like 90% of shit, so the insult is just factually inaccurate. you, on the other hand, actually are struggling with literacy, you actually do feel ashamed that you read books and don't really seem to remember or understand them, that you miss things that are obvious to others, that you can't talk about them as articulately as others do and so on. the constant insecure jabs at "academia'" are a dead giveaway. this is a real anxiety of yours and it's why you're so upset.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:11:35 2020 No.15255691 >>15255673 There is no evidence in the text to support the idea that the mythical monster is meant to represent foreigners. And you don't have a single opinion that actually contradicts the progressives, you just dither about and equivocate.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:15:41 2020 No.15255730 >>15253846 She also has a website where resenters send their trash essays.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:16:35 2020 No.15255741 File: 189 KB, 884x1166, nag hammadi review.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I reallly wish op was wrong

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:17:19 2020 No.15255752
File: 173 KB, 1007x508, 3123132132213.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15255647
The one I'm referring to was edited by Marvin Meyer (with some advisary board including James Robinson Wolf-Peter Funk, et al) but there's one edition that was edited by Robinson alone and that is the better version. See my pic related.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:17:50 2020 No.15255756

>>15253813
Honestly it shouldn't be that hard to learn a foreign language nowadays - just put some vocab into Anki and get a grammar book. It should be "good enough". If autists can learn Japanese to read anime powerpoints, you can do it to learn Latin or Greek.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:18:27 2020 No.15255760

>>15255606
>A monster having some attributes of foreigners does not indicate that it is supposed to represent them in any way.
the entire scenario is built around his being a foreign savage. i explained it already and you ignored that post. why would there be a whole scene of polyphemos responding to a greek ritual with "we don't do this here" if not to establish that he is foreign? that's not what an interaction with a monster looks like.

>>15255691
>There is no evidence in the text
i posted it several times now and you just pretend not to see it.

>And you don't have a single opinion that actually contradicts the progressives
i posted one and you claimed rejection of mass literacy is a cliched progressive idea, because, like the other guy said, you're a bit of a moron.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:19:24 2020 No.15255770 >>15253724 Because of this questionable story about an Italian lecturer? I doubt every single modern translator shares these views even if the story was real

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:20:26 2020 No.15255779 >>15255741 What does this random good reads review have to do with anything

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:21:17 2020 No.15255785 >>15253879 Why shouldn't a Christian be against patriarchal morals? After all, assuming you're an atheist and leftist of some sort, moral facts don't exist in the first place, so why is promoting patriarchy worse than egalitarianism?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:21:24 2020 No.15255786 >>15255770 Emily Wilson certainly follows it.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:21:26 2020 No.15255787

>>15255760
You have poor reading comprehension. I called your (insincere) jab about mass literacy an affectation of academic elitism. The progressivism is the reading of the cyclops as foreign. The cyclops having foreign attributes serves to make it more monstrous to the reader, it is not meant to represent foreigners, it is a monster.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:22:28 2020 No.15255798 >>15255300 >brought to you by the same people that killed christmas no surprise there

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:22:35 2020 No.15255802 >>15255779 >>15253880 We're talking about SJW/faux-progressive/doctored translations, mate.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:23:38 2020 No.15255814 >>15255341 kek

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:25:01 2020 No.15255831 >>15255730 I remember someone saying something like "we have to fight against the idea that there was anything special about Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome". If someone thinks they were not special, why study them?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:25:30 2020 No.15255834 >>15255019 yes, unironically burn every book written after 1611, with extremely few exceptions, and prevent the democratization of culture

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:26:13 2020 No.15255842 >>15255786 So one notable translator that no one here was going to read anyway

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:26:22 2020 No.15255844 >>15255760 Why didn't they make the Trojans to be monsters?

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:27:42 2020 No.15255856

>>15255834
>democratization
How many plebs do you think would vote for "inclusive language" in Homer or the Bible lel, this is upper-class moralism, it's a consequence of the Left occupying the moral center in our society post-WW2 - everything needs to be viewed in light of racism, the Holocaust, etc.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:28:12 2020 No.15255863 >>15255786 Emily Wilson wasn't wrong in how she translated it, she tried to capture things as true to the actual Greek. The problem is that it doesn't usually make for the best reads. Homer obviously wouldn't have used "bitch"

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:28:32 2020 No.15255865 >>15255831 One classicist guy in the other thread says these frauds were nothing but opportunistic careerists.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:30:51 2020 No.15255891 >>15255863 He also wouldn't have used "scalawag", but Wilson didn't care. She didn't try to capture the Greek. She tried to capture her doctored interpretation of the Greek seen through cringe 21st century progressive lenses.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:32:14 2020 No.15255907 >>15255891 I got some news for you. Every translator interpreted the work through the lens of their own times.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:32:56 2020 No.15255912

>>15253724
This is why e-books are Terminator tier threats. The day is coming when there will no such thing as a text that isn't amended like in OP pic, and physical copies will be scarce and/or out of production because muh carbon emissions has shuttered the physical book medium. To say nothing of the nepotism within publishing and the generally nonexistent requirement to be capable of composition oneself, at least while translating literature.

>>15253880
>changes Son of Man to "Child of Humanity" or Father to "Parent", or He to "It." This a fucking disgrace.
Tikkun olam, anon. Get with the program

>>15254190
>no gods, no masters
This is the enemy

>>15254508
A fucking abomination

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:32:58 2020 No.15255913

>>15255787
>The cyclops having foreign attributes serves to make it more monstrous to the reader, it is not meant to represent foreigners, it is a monster.
nonsense. that's not how you represent "monstrosity". actual monsters like charybdis do not talk. this guy has a conversation with odysseus and says "we don't follow your gods, stranger". if a dragon, instead of breathing fire, opened his mouth and said "i don't follow your religion" this would obviously make him less monstrous, not more. actual monsters are bestial, not people who disagree with you on proper custom.

working as a shepherd is not a monstrous attribute. speaking coherently is not a monstrous attribute. rejecting a religion is not a monstrous attribute. those are the attributes of a godless savage. you are really bad at this.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:33:13 2020 No.15255918 >>15255856 good point, ban leftists then

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:35:15 2020 No.15255940 >>15255918 True, but easier said than done.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:36:38 2020 No.15255951 >>15255913 He is a monster who has been given attributes of a godless savage to make him more disturbing. You can continue to ignore this if you want.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:36:44 2020 No.15255954
File: 89 KB, 435x353, 324324324324324.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>15255907
>In United States history, scalawags (sometimes spelled scallawags or scallywags) were white Southerners who supported Reconstruction after the American Civil War.
I fail to see how that has anything to do with Homer. It's perverted anachronism coming from a place of recent. Wilson tranforms Odysseus into this "patriarchal white male" for which she has an intense hatred for. You can read this garbage all you want but teaching this at university is dishonest and evil.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:40:21 2020 No.15255984 >>15255856 ultraliberals have convinced every man that they are capable of becoming God demagogues appealing to a growing non-european descended demographic facilitate cultural decline

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:41:10 2020 No.15255990

>>15255863
>Emily Wilson wasn't wrong in how she translated it, she tried to capture things as true to the actual Greek. The problem is that it doesn't usually make for the best reads. Homer obviously wouldn't have used "bitch"
>I got some news for you. Every translator interpreted the work through the lens of their own times.
"It's okay when my faggot side does it, sweety!" - That's all I read.

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:42:38 2020 No.15256008

>>15255940
>>15255918
>>15255856
Another view I've come around to is that in our time, leftists are in many ways close to a mirror of throne-and-altar conservatives of the past. Contrary to some historiography, they aren't really using Reason to undermine faith or whatever, they're using largely irrationalist, moralist, or particularist arguments to defend the sacred (anti-racism), as without Progressive Education and Managerial State, society will fall into Racism. Some people frame modern leftism as "the inevitable consequence of the Enlightenment" but compare autonomous Reason with e.g. standpoint epistemology. I unironically believe that the Right has to promote a view based on science and reason against this sort of thing. Just my opinion though.

>>15255984
I don't think this is accurate, modern ultraliberals hardly even talk about "every man" at all, everything is about being part of a community usually based on race, or sexuality and religion (which they really just view as generalized forms of race).

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:43:40 2020 No.15256024 >>15255990 If every side translates works according to their biases why don't we just translate Homer according to a bias fundamentally opposed to Wilson then? It's just another bias, after all.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:44:02 2020 No.15256029 >>15255913 What about centaurs? Were they mute?

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:45:18 2020 No.15256037

>>15255951
>He is a monster who has been given attributes of a godless savage to make him more disturbing.
monsters do not become more disturbing when they stop acting monstrous. making him less of a monster does not make him more of a monster. you're legit arguing that up is down at this point.

also, if he was given the attributes of a godless savage, then a greek hearing the story will see in him a godless savage, which means that he represents a godless savage, which is what i'm arguing. thank you for your time.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:46:35 2020 No.15256049 >>15256024 You change your tune at literally every fucking response to accommodate your loss. Get it straight.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:46:38 2020 No.15256050 >>15255300 She should translate Mein Kampf for a change.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:47:04 2020 No.15256054 >>15256049 I'm a different person than the one you were replying to mate.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 15:48:09 2020 No.15256061 ITT: materialists and transcendentalists argue over whether there is inherent meaning in the universe the materialists deny meaning, and then attempt to convince everyone else to cease existing the transcendentalists continue taking the bait

Anonymous Sat May 2 15:48:37 2020 No.15256067

>>15256029
centaurs are also barbarian tribals, not monsters. the whole point of mixing human and animal parts is that you're half-bestial ie a wild savage. same with satyrs. there are many stories about those creatures where they're portrayed as unable to live in proper society because they're too wild to follow the rules.

Anonymous Sat May 2 16:46:31 2020 No.15256571

>>15254753
>but that's literally true and not even controversial. the greeks were colonizing the whole mediterranean

Except that's wrong. You're thinking of a much later Greek expansion. The Mycenaean civilization during which the story takes place was restricted to the Greek mainland and a few islands and the main foreign power they were dealing with was the Minoan civilization which they considered civilized enough to copy the writing and order art pieces from.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 17:19:31 2020 No.15256836 Slightly out of contest: does someone have an english edition of Dogra Magra (or Dogura Magura) by Yumeno Kyosaku?

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 17:23:15 2020 No.15256859 >Translator injects his own opinions and views in the footnotes >Tries to sanitize the more dangerous or radical views of an author Fuck Kaufmann for doing this with Nietzsche

Anonymous Sat May 2 17:28:16 2020 No.15256894

>>15255913
>this guy has a conversation with odysseus and says "we don't follow your gods, stranger"

You are completely missing the point because you are ignorant of the subtext. Of course a Cyclope wouldn't follow the Greek gods. While Polyphemus is the son of Poseidon, the race of the cyclopes as a whole used to be enemies of the gods. Although they made peace with the gods there is no reason they should worship their former rivals as mortals do.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 17:34:25 2020 No.15256940 >>15256836 As far as I know it does not exist. There appears to be a translation into French, though.

Anonymous Sat May 2 17:49:01 2020 No.15257051

After getting my stimulus, I was thinking about getting the 3-volume unabridged Rig Veda, but after finding put the translator also wrote this:
>https://www.amazon.com/Sacrificed-Wife-Sacrificers-Hospitality-Christian/dp/0195096630/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&qid=1588456115&refinements=p_27%3AStephanie+W.+Jamison&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Stephanie+W.+Jamison
I just don't know.

Anonymous Sat May 2 17:53:34 2020 No.15257087

>>15256571
sorry dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. homeric poems contain some ancestral memories of the mycenaean period but they cannot be in any real way "set" in that era because they were not composed until the early archaic period (ie the era of greek colonization), after a dark age that wiped out almost all memory of mycenaean greece, including not just the ability to write but even the idea that there used to be writing. in terms of the level of technology, economic structure, the pantheon etc the odyssey reflects this post-dark age greece and not anything mycenaean.

like, how could you possibly take the odyssey to be anything but a story by people who do a bunch of sailing and exploring? why else would it have all these nautical adventures, sea monsters, strange tribes like the lotus eaters and so on? it even contains accurate information on navigating around the mediterranean, because it was composed by people who knew that shit from firsthand experience.

>>15256894
another fucking expert. there was no war between the cyclopes and the olympian gods, you're thinking of the titans. the cyclopes were allies of zeus in the war and crafted his thunderbolt. this backstory isn't even relevant because the odyssey ignores it anyway and reinvents them as simple shepherds and not craftsmen.

>>	Anonymous Sat May 2 18:41:31 2020 No.15257460 >>15256049 Yeah there's a lot of people posting retard, different people sound different. KYS

Anonymous Sat May 2 18:53:49 2020 No.15257546

My god these "everything is subjective" people here are impossible. But then at the same time think everything that's produced today is good/better because it's produced... today? It's all so tiresome.

>>15255267
Not all, I think Waterfield did a few more recent translations and he's actually supposed to be pretty decent. But I haven't compared, so feel free to enlighten me if there's something about Oxford's translations I should know.

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/lit/ - Literature