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/lit/ - Literature

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1524408 No.1524408 [Reply] [Original]

il/lit/erates:

About Lolita,

what the fuck was nabokov's intention?

I can't see it as anything but a pedophiliac manifesto. a bloody good one at that...i don't see anything else underlying the perverse yet beatiful wordplay coming from the mind of a closeted pedophile( can't be that fucking good at writing about pedophilia unless you are one...maybe not.)
whatever. what did you think?
what meaning did you guys get out of it?

>> No.1524412

Humbert was disgusting Europe defiling innocent USA.

>> No.1524414

I got the portrayal of a man with an uncontrollable urge that was not as perverted as many people assume, constantly paranoid about acting on his desires or other people finding out about them.

I think it's good to dis spell some myths about paedophillia.

>> No.1524417

It's all about metamorphosis.

>> No.1524415

It was attempting to show the perverse nature of the pedophiles mind. It was certainly not pro-pedophilia. The author himself has disputed this claim many times.

The novel does not portray the pedophile as an absolute monster, but as a human with a perverse mind. He is still the "bad guy". It is just a more human take on the bad guy.

In short, its intention was against both pedophilia and against the inhuman view people take against those who carry it out. It is very interesting to study for that reason.

>> No.1524420

I read it as a pedophile doing his damndest to rationalize and justify what he internally views as horrible failings of character and willpower all while going into a condescending narrative about America to somehow edify a sense of superiority about himself.
It's one massive inferiority complex spilling out of a man waiting to die and not wanting to.

>> No.1524421

>>1524412

this coming from a russian?

i can't see the motive...

>> No.1524424

I just think of it as a book which doesn't praise people who do seemingly reprehensible things, but suggests we not dehumanize them..

>> No.1524432

>>1524415
can't get any more pro-pedophile than this. i got enough hard ons reading the shit i had to serial fap to about 30 women to convince myself i'm not one myself.


>>1524417

oh word?

>> No.1524453

I saw Humbert as a tragic character, evil but not unlikable. Lolita as an almost-intelligent, manipulative agent of lust.

The whole thing was pretty sad. We have Humbert, who is painfully aware of his own perversion and it's origin, Lolita, who is herself aware of Humbert's obsession for her and is not morally opposed to using it to her advantage and their ensuing "relationship". It's not pro-pedophile. It's not really pro-anything.

>> No.1524467

Kind of boring and rambling..I guess the intent was to bamboozle the moralistic audience at that time into buying a copy and indulging themselves in sanitized filth.

>> No.1524469

I must admit I got erections several times during the book. But that was my penis still trapped in its teenage shell, turned on by the mere description of naked skin.

Still, I think it is meant to be slightly sexual as it's meant to accurately portray how Humbert feels. If it avoided that then it wouldn't be true to the character.

>> No.1524472

gave me a particular taste...
lets leave it at that

captcha sickened laserge

>> No.1524476

>>1524453
That's the same way I saw it. It's almost like you can't help but feel sorry for their perversion. The book was an excellent perspective on the psyche of a pedophile, i've heard of pedos actually learning and using Lolita as a tool to get over their own demons

>> No.1524481
File: 325 KB, 604x648, 1259623181884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1524481

>>1524467
>lolita
>kind of boring
>mvq

>> No.1524483

I saw it as a personification of mental illness and instability, Humbert being all too aware of his illness but having no way to cure it but to satisfy his cravings, and Lolita being the personification of the illness, toying with Humbert's psyche as a mental illness does to the mentally ill. Their travels across the country represent Humbert's seclusion from the rest of the world in the face of his illness.

>> No.1524482

>>1524453
Nah dude, nah. Lolita used what little power she had over Humbert to gain a small bit of independence and agency. But she was in no way a temptress preying on poor Humbert.

>> No.1524489

It *was* boring..the way H.H. affects poetry is really just a droll laugh..i could hardly finish it the thing..

>> No.1524493

>>1524482
That's what I meant with almost-intelligent. She was hedonistic and impulsive and didn't care much about anything as long as her immediate requests were fulfilled.

PS: I just realized I described a child.

>> No.1524498

>>1524483
>imokaywiththis.jpeg

>> No.1524502

plunged deep into HH's thoughts, one can leave behind society's criticism and feel the same urges he does, elaborate webs of passion and hate.
this pro-pedophile manifesto has single handededly provided Chris Hansen more targets than anything else.

>> No.1524507
File: 17 KB, 308x306, 1296015317356.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1524507

>>1524489
>he thinks his "almost" inability to finish the book is a reflection on the book and not him

>> No.1524510

>>1524502

I'm with this guy

>> No.1524513

>>1524432

Don't project. Simply because some literature involving pedophilia made you horny does not classify it as "pro-pedophilia."

Also it is about metamorphosis. Lolita becomes her mother, Humbert and Quilty are interchangeable, and Humbert tries to forcibly morph Lolita into another Annabell. It wouldn't surprise me that Lolita is about metamorphosis when you consider Nabokov's career as a lepidopterist.

>> No.1524521

You all like to throw the word "pedophile" around too easily.

In the novel, Lolita is fourteen years old, at or past the age of puberty, and she wants Humbert sexually, and he wants her sexually.

Now, is it wrong to want to have sex with another person that is capable of bearing children? No.

Is it wrong to fuck an 7 year old? Probably.

There is a line.

I wouldn't necessarily call Lolita a tale of pedophilia, but of an older man with someone who was "underage".

It is lecherous, which is somewhat morally contemptible, but it is not child-rape when the girls is past puberty and fourteen years old and it is consensual.

The book, in my opinion, is probably more about the control of sexual impulses, the power a woman can have over a man, despite age disparity, and how society effects our interactions involving sex.

>> No.1524533

>>1524521
>Lolita is fourteen years old
No
>she wants Humbert sexually
...Oh wow, you think Humbert was a reliable narrator? Really?

>> No.1524541
File: 38 KB, 400x648, pedobear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1524541

>>1524521

yes.
pedophilia isn't really that bad,
when rape is not involved.

>> No.1524549

>>1524507
I have read longer books with more dense content..lolita really bored me because the lead character was written as a bore..what can i say it was too successful..i think Nabokov was writing about posh lust and he nailed it somewhat, but unfortunately those kind of people actually turn me off so reading page after page of their inner monologue really isn't something I enjoy..

>> No.1524558
File: 90 KB, 500x642, 1271728039902.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1524558

"BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAAAAAAAAAAAAAN?!?!?!"

>> No.1524565

>>1524502

still convernting people around the world as we speak...

>>1524549

danielle steele fan

>> No.1524576

OP, ever read any other Nabokov? One of his big themes is love troubled by taboo. You won't see this in the text, but my opinion is that he wanted you to feel sick for liking Humbert. That's drama.

>> No.1524578

>>1524412
That's pretty reductionist...

>> No.1524580

>>1524533
Lolita's age is 12 when he book ends, 15 when she leaves Humbert, and I think 18 or 19 at the end. A pedophile could be attracted to a 12 year old if she hasn't reached puberty yet. Humbert is also a hebephile because he is attracted to girls of early puberty. He does mention that nymphets can be as young as 9, so this does still fully classify him as a pedophile.

>> No.1524582

>>1524453
>it's origin, Lolita
Nope. He had a childhood sweetheart, who died. Lolita came later.

>> No.1524586

It's about being yourself

>> No.1524593

>>1524483
Nabokov and his wife were on a cross-country butterfly sightseeing tour. He put it in the book. Good idea though, maybe both are true.

>> No.1524596

Pedo here

You'd have to be retarded or something to think Lolita is a pro-pedophilia book.

It's well-written and manages to make Humbert semi-likable despite him being an evil twat, but at know point are you supposed to think that Humbert is some kinda pro-pedo role model are something

>> No.1524603

op here

>>1524576

>love

thats another word for it i guess...

>> No.1524605

>>1524596
For one thing, he was caught.

>> No.1524618

>>1524582
>We have Humbert, who is painfully aware of his own perversion and it's origin, Lolita
>We have Humbert, who is painfully aware of his own perversion and the origin of his pervesion. Lolita

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't implying that Lolita was the origin to his perversion or that she replaced anabell in any way.

>> No.1524620

>>1524596

ENGLISH motherfucker...

also.
humanizing the pedophile... making all his urges more than palatable.

PRO PEDOPHILE MANIPHESTIVAL!!!!!

and everybody's celebrating

>> No.1524627

>>1524605
oh u

Also, wow I has some stupid typos.

But anywho, I think the book is basically seeing how someone can go from being an unfeeling sociopath, to being shamefilled and repentant too late to really do anything.

Probably my favortie parts of the book are those that break from the straight narration and feel more like the Humbert at the end of the story.

It went something like "I was traveling the country with my loli slave and all was sunshine and lollipos. Oh, wait know it wasn't, she was a twelve year old child who cried herself to sleep every night that I was holding as my prisoner"

>> No.1524635

>>1524620
Then Pale Fire was a homosexual manifesto? Ada was an incestuous manifesto?
>your mom is an incestuous manifesto
I think it's more likely that VN liked to spice up his romantic plots with taboos to get his readers squirming.

>> No.1524642

>>1524620
Umm, humanizing a pedophile isn't necessarily a bad thing, though obviously I'm biased. If society was willing to acknowledge the humanity of pedophile it'd be easier to prevent offenses in the first place.

I'm lucky enough to have a low-stress carefree life. But some less well-adjusted pedophile would have been in a world of good if he could tell people without being afraid of being lynched or something

>> No.1524644

>>1524635

havent read any of his other works.
good call about my mom.
and no,
it wasn't just about spice
you fuckhead

>> No.1524651

>>1524576
my opinion:
>>1524644

>> No.1524678

Besides being the only living, breathing character I think I've ever come across in a story, Humbert Humbert is Larry Talbot. Lolita is, at its heart, a werewolf story; everything is tragedy.

>> No.1524689

>>1524678
If Humbert ages in wolf years, I don't see a problem.

Seriously though, good observation. I'm with you.