/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15236875]

Are there any good books criticizing Islam? Not criticism of Muhammad ('he was cruel by the standards of modern morality', etc.) but criticism of the Quran and Islamic dogma, the contradictions that arose among Muslims, something like a critical review of the invariants of Islam.

Are there any books that show that Muhammad was superficially familiar with the Christian and Jewish teachings and made mistakes in understanding this?

[Anonymous No.15236891]

Also a question for Muslims.

Are there any 5-6 theologians accepted by all Sunnis in the world? I would like to know if, besides the Qur'an and Hadith, there are any theological texts that are accepted by EVERY Sunni.

[Anonymous No.15236969]

No books that I know of but christian apologetics online make some valid points amongst all the seethe

[Anonymous No.15237172]

>>15236875

John of Damascus

[Anonymous No.15237205]

>>15236875
Hagarism by crone
Ibn Warraq's books

[Anonymous No.15237219]

>>15236875
https://www.amazon.com/Islamic-Mysticism-Perspective-Ibn-Al-Rawandi/dp/1573927678

[Anonymous No.15237234]

>>15236875
https://www.amazon.com/Ibn-Warraq/e/B001JPADHK%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share

[Anonymous No.15237317]

>>15236875
Answering Islam (Norm Geisler & Abdul Saleeb)
No God But One (Nabeel Qureshi)
The History of Jihad (Robert Spencer)

A start. Or just read the Quran, Sunnah and Sahih hadiths. It's fucking insane.

[Anonymous No.15237333]

>islam bad

[Anonymous No.15237516]

>>15236875
Not books, but here are some Christian videos refuting Islamic "theology" as being a perversion of Christian Orthodoxy.
https://youtu.be/sWZ9Mpjr9mc
https://youtu.be/jCQ6-vnyR-I

>>15237172
also this.

[Anonymous No.15237700]

>>15237333
Positively based

[Anonymous No.15237862]

>>15237333
positively cringed.

[Anonymous No.15237881]

Isn't the Satanic Verses a criticism of cultures in Islam

[Anonymous No.15238361]

bump

[Anonymous No.15238385]

>>15236969
Any examples?

>>15237172
>>15237205
>>15237219
>>15237317
Thank you, guys!

>>15237333
>memes as a way of arguing
You better answer this post >>15236891

>>15237516
Thanks, pretty interesting stuff. By the way, I am an Orthodox Christian.

[Anonymous No.15238391]

>>15237881
One of the best, yes.

[Anonymous No.15238402]

>>15238385
>error, does not compute *beep bop boop* you better answer this post!

[Anonymous No.15238431]

>>15237333
>>islam bad

[Anonymous No.15238436]

https://pastebin.com/2CJrErSe - a selection of strange hadiths that Muslims consider a message from God

[Anonymous No.15238446]

https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/1f0l19/weird_hadith_need_answers_please/
https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/gimld/a_few_weird_hadith_was_looking_for_some_input/

[Anonymous No.15238459]

>>15238402
Do you know Islam too poorly to answer this post? Why then do you think this is something good?

[Anonymous No.15238630]

Islam is no more contradictory (and even violent) than Judeo-Christianity as a whole, especially including the Old Testament. Don’t be a hypocrite!

[Anonymous No.15238948]

>>15238630
You do not understand the main difference. The people mentioned in the Old Testament are not role models, except for their righteous and just deeds. And Muhammad for Muslims is a model of perfect behavior.

[Anonymous No.15239049]

>>15238630
Low quality bait, read the sources. No comparison.

[Anonymous No.15239160]

In the Shadow of the Sword by Tom Holland is a good redpill on the early years of Islam

[Anonymous No.15239167]

>>15239049
>>15238948
t. brainlets

[Anonymous No.15239271]

>>15239160
I read about it now. Holland draws on noteworthy researches by historians and philologists (Wansbrough, Donner, etc.). Something I wanted to find. Thanks!

>>15239167
That is, you could not come up with anything more reasoned than a baseless insult?

[Anonymous No.15239471]

>>15237333
>islam good

[Anonymous No.15239489]

>>15236875
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12376830-in-the-shadow-of-the-sword

iirc this but it's been a while since i read it. basically islam is nothing but a warlord cult obsessed with conquest but hands-off in rule. that's why all the territories they conquered went to shit. it's absolutely brainlet tier. expand expand expand, regardless of quality, like a fucking virus. they destroyed persia, which had a rich and brilliant culture, and ripped off some aspects of it like walking around wearing the skull of a deer pretending you are a deer as well. the islamic world is an amalgamation of rotting corpses of better cultures. the world was distinctly better before its conception and distinctly slowly going to shit wherever it took hold and infested since then. utter garbage.

PERSIA WAS SO FUCKING COOL BEFORE ISLAM RUINED IT, AND NOW IT'S UTTER SHITE. FUCK PISSLAM.
>>15239160
ah. hivemind

[Anonymous No.15240157]

Confessions of an Islamophobe

[Anonymous No.15240169]

The Closing of the Muslim Mind

[Anonymous No.15240180]

>>15237317
>Robert Spencer
This.

[Anonymous No.15240196]

Heretic by Ayaan Hirsi Ali

[Anonymous No.15240206]

>>15236875
Most of it incoherent seething. Just read some books and articles by the scholars who are apart of the revisionist school of Islamic history

[Anonymous No.15240378]

>>15236875
>From Believers to Muslims by Donner
>Muhammad and the Believers by Donner
>The Qur'an in Recent Scholarship by Donner
>The Historian, the believer, and the Qur'an by Donner
>Hagarism by Crone
>Among the Believers by Crone
>God's Caliph by Crone
>Islam as Others Saw It by Hoyland
These should suffice, they convey majority opinions within Islamic and Quranic scholarship.

[Anonymous No.15240409]

>>15240180
This book seems truly insufferable.

[Anonymous No.15240459]

>>15237333
Islam is divine.

[Anonymous No.15240484]

>>15240378
>God's Caliph by Crone
>Islam as Others Saw It by Hoyland
The only decent books in that list

[Anonymous No.15240525]

>>15240378
>Hagarism
>Majority opinions
What on Earth are you talking about

[Anonymous No.15240532]

>>15240459
Divinely stupid.

[Anonymous No.15240564]

>>15237516
I'm kind of interested in Shia Islam now

[Anonymous No.15240879]

>>15236875
I thought you weren't supposed to criticize Islam? If you did, they swore to kill you?

[Anonymous No.15240884]

>>15240378
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.15240913]

"In recent decades there has been much scholarly debate over Islam's origins. The traditional Muslim view has increasingly been found inadequate, but critical scholarship has not been able to reach a consensus on how Islam arose. The present talk surveys the issues at stake and a number of interpretations that have been recently proposed to understand just what happened at the origins of Islam 14 centuries ago."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RFK5u5lkhA

[Anonymous No.15241012]

>>15236875
>he was cruel by the standards of modern morality
Muhammad was cruel by the standards of ancient morality. King Yazdegerd III wrote a letter to him on how disgusted he was with Muhammad's barbarity

[Anonymous No.15241145]

>>15240879
"And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims (in submission) to Him" 29:46

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." 60:8

[Anonymous No.15241161]

>>15241012
kek

[Anonymous No.15241193]

>>15241012
The Torah instructs jews to eliminate Several Arab nations, and the Hittites (European ancestors), and that Jews would be living the North, East South and West

[Anonymous No.15241302]

Islam is the based and will forever be based..

Muhammed is the perfect human being, yes everything he did was righteous.

[Anonymous No.15241698]

>>15241302
Even the cross dressing?

[Anonymous No.15241727]

>>15241698
Shias are not Muslims. They are a satanic cult started by a Jew. They have more in common with Christians than Muslims because they both worship men. It is a long story so I am just going to say something simple: they have 12 imams and they say that each of these 12 imams are infallible and they know everything. Very strange since these are suppose to be attributes of Allah.

>>15236875
Nothing

[Anonymous No.15242343]

>>15241302
>>15236891

[Anonymous No.15242404]

>>15236875
The West and the Rest by Roger Scruton. It focuses mostly on the social and political implications of Islam vs. Christianity.

William Lane Craig did his PhD on comparative theology between Christianity and Islam IIRC, so he possibly has some works on this.

[Anonymous No.15243084]

>>15240409
It's really not bad at all, don't judge it by the cover and title too much.

[Anonymous No.15243527]

>>15236875
Ibn warraq
Ibn Al rawandi
Patricia crone

[Anonymous No.15243541]

>>15236875
>Muhammad was an illiterate paedophile warlord!

[Anonymous No.15243549]

[Anonymous No.15243570]

>>15241727
>Shiism was started by a Jew
Imam Ali was a Jew?

[Anonymous No.15243603]

>>15243570
Ali himself supported Abu Bakr. The first person to denounce the first three caliphs and support Ali was Abdullah ibn Saba', a Jew.

[Anonymous No.15243614]

>>15243603
He was a Ghulat Shia. No Shias alive today actually believe anything that Jew said, about Ali being God

[Anonymous No.15243627]

>>15243549
Based pedophile

[Anonymous No.15243771]

>>15243614
The distinction between ghuluww and 'moderate' Shi'ism is a later one. In early Shi'i literature, such as the Umm al-Kitab, Ibn Saba' was in fact a celebrated figure. A not insignificant amount of early Shi'is held esoteric, mystical, and ghulat beliefs, and it was only later, with people like Shaykh al-Mufid, that Shi'i theology began to be dominated by a more rationalistic paradigm. Mohammad Ali Amir-Moezzi talks about this in his book The Divine Guide in Early Shi'ism. Also, the Alawites still exist, and Ibn Saba' is mentioned positively in their literature.

[Anonymous No.15244302]

>>15243541
Can you read?

>Not criticism of Muhammad ('he was cruel by the standards of modern morality', etc.) but criticism of the Quran and Islamic dogma

[Anonymous No.15244443]

nothing wrong with islam

t. former european christian

[Anonymous No.15244470]

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/popular-writings/christianity-other-faiths/concept-of-god-in-islam-and-christianity/

[Anonymous No.15244475]

>>15244443
>>15236891

[Anonymous No.15244498]

>>15244475
im a shiite

[Anonymous No.15244515]

>>15236875
What went wrong by Bernard Lewis

[Anonymous No.15244526]

>>15243570
Shi'ism started as a cult after the death of Ali.

Before then supporters of Ali were just political. If you read history they created a whole religion after they fucked up in Kufa.

[Anonymous No.15244564]

>>15236875
Henri Lammens and Louis Massignon wrote very interesting critiques of Islam. The latter is much more positive towards Islam but still notes its serious limitations.

[Anonymous No.15244608]

>>15236891
No there isn't. There are maturidi and ashari schools of theology and they disagree. Then there is the Salafi/Wahhabi/athari one which says everyone else is a disbeliever because they don't have the correct idea of allah

[Goyim No.15244695]

>>15244515
Notice how all these books are written by Jews with a neocon/communist background.

Bin Laden: "In the beginning, I say that we have made it clear and stated so many times for over two decades that the cause of the quarrel with you is your support for your Israeli allies, who have occupied our land, Palestine. This position of yours, along with some other grievances, is what prompted us to carry out the 11 September events. Had you known the magnitude of our suffering as a result of the injustice of the Jews against us, with the support of your administrations for them, you would have known that both our nations are victims of the policies of the White House, which is in fact a hostage in the hands of interest groups, especially major corporations and the Israeli lobby."

[Anonymous No.15244725]

Professor Kafir. This is a guy who can read the Quran in its original language.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/username/professor.kafir/results/thread/order/asc/

He said he was going to self publish his research but I don't know if he's gotten around to it yet.

[Anonymous No.15245030]

>>15244564
Thanks a lot! I’m looking for something like that.

>>15244515
>>15244725
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.15245144]

>>15245030
>Are there any books that show that Muhammad was superficially familiar with the Christian and Jewish teachings and made mistakes in understanding this?

And those who disbelieved said, "This [Qur'an] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie.
25:5
And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon." Quran 25:6

"And thus do We diversify the verses so the disbelievers will say, "You have studied," and so We may make the Qur'an clear for a people who know"

"And it was not for this Qur'an to be produced by other than Allah , but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds." Quran 10:37

"And has it not been a sign to them that it is recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel?" Quran 26:197

[Anonymous No.15245364]

>>15245144
>recognized by the scholars of the Children of Israel
Explain this. What Jewish prophecies speak of Muhammad? What Jewish scholars recognized Mohammed?

[Anonymous No.15245380]

>>15245144
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

[Anonymous No.15245481]

>>15245380
>As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

You btfo'd yourself

[Anonymous No.15245528]

>>15245144
What is this supposed to prove? Islam is true because the Quran literally states "Islam is true"?

[Anonymous No.15245635]

>>15245481
No

[Anonymous No.15245700]

>>15244725
One google search and you will learn that female circumcision is prohibited in Islam.

A collection of three brief scholarly treatises on male and female circumcision as viewed in the body of Islamic law. Noting the lack of doubt that male circumcision is a legitimate practice, the papers largely address common misunderstandings about the Islamic ruling in the case of daughters. In publishing these treatises, the WHO Regional Office for the Eastern Mediterranean aims to issue an authoritative and conclusive statement about the practice of female circumcision in Islamic countries. The first treatise proves with sufficient documented evidence that sayings or actions concerning female circumcision ascribed to the Prophet Muhammad have no authenticity. Noting the many risks involved in female circumcision, the scholar concludes that the practice "cannot be legitimate under Islamic law", and further concludes that "female circumcision is neither required nor is it an obligation nor a sunna." The second treatise, on "Pharaonic circumcision", or infibulation. reviews the harmful effects of this practice and concludes that it is "an odious crime". The final treatise confirms these views, concluding that "since female circumcision is not something required and no evidence from religious sources proves that it is either an obligation or a sunna, what remains is that it is an absolute damage that has no benefit"

[Anonymous No.15245728]

>>15245700
Are you Muslim?

[Anonymous No.15245961]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15246314]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15246364]

>>15245700
There are hadiths regarding female circumcision. Female circumcision isn't mandatory but it's not banned either. It's considered noble. Almost all sunni and shia scholars agree upon this.

[Anonymous No.15246438]

>>15243603
He waited six months. His support only came as a result of him not wanting internal division

[Anonymous No.15246466]

No one can think Quran was written by God after reading this book and its second volume.

[Anonymous No.15246965]

>>15246466
Thanks!

[Anonymous No.15247029]

The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran by Luxenberg.

[Anonymous No.15247464]

>>15247029
Thanks a lot. Interesting book.

[Goyim No.15247576]

>>15245364
The Bible says that only Gods true believers would have mastery over the Holy Land. It's the Abrahamic Covenant.
And that the Hebrews would all be faithful and have the Law written on their hearts, without regressing to disbelief (fulfilled when the Mideast converted to Islam)

>>15245380
St. Paul authored that, and he was expelled by James, who was writing doctrines contrary to Paul. Also many New Testament writings have been revovked like the Shepherd of Hermas and Didache.

>>15245528
It says the Quran is true because it confirms the former scriptures e.g. the aforementioned Biblical prophecies

I was just giving examples of contemporary criticisms at the time, to show that the Quran already answers most of them

[Anonymous No.15247608]

Lots of books are haram.
The Abrahamic religions have been holding the human race backwards for THOUSANDS of years.

[Anonymous No.15247676]

>>15247576
>he was expelled by James
What?

[Anonymous No.15247746]

>>15247576
Are there any 5-6 theologians accepted by all Sunnis in the world? I would like to know if, besides the Qur'an and Hadith, there are any theological texts that are accepted by EVERY Sunni.

[Goyim No.15247777]

>>15247608
The Quran instructs Muslims to read the former scriptures as confirmation (which would include any apocryphal works, which themselves include virtually all historical and intellectual information).

The Bible also instructs to test any Prophets if their prophecies come true, which would require comprehensive understanding of their works

>>15247676
St James expelled Paul from Jerusalem

[Goyim No.15247817]

>>15247746
No, the Quran and Authenticated Hadith are the only authority, and God is the only perfect authority.

Anyway, its hard to consolidate Muslim study because of Zionist sanctions

[Anonymous No.15247825]

>>15247777
>St James expelled Paul from Jerusalem
Source

[Anonymous No.15247947]

Start with Saint John of Damascus.

[Goyim No.15248115]

>>15247825

Acts 21
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. 18 The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 19 Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them"

And its clear later on that Paul disavowed the Law, thus contradicinting James' instruction

[Anonymous No.15248269]

>>15248115
Did James expel Paul from Jerusalem?

The New Testament speaks of a gradual transition from law to freedom.

Acts 15:24
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment

Acts 28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

[Goyim No.15248333]

>>15248269
James accepted Paul only if he instructed Hebrews to keep the Law of Moses (Acts 21, Epistle of James).

The Law was never binding on Gentiles, who both James and Paul agreed just had to abstain from blood and pagan meats, immo

[Anonymous No.15248350]

>>15248115
t.muslime who didn't understand what is reading,

[Anonymous No.15248368]

>>15236875
>cube of Saturn worship
Under no circumstances this is a good thing. None.

[Goyim No.15248389]

>>15248350
James and Paul contradicted each other on the matter of the Law, for Hebrews

[Goyim No.15248404]

>>15248368
Consider the Ark of the Covenant

[Anonymous No.15248411]

>>15248333
>only if
Sources?

[Anonymous No.15248451]

>>15248404
Why is the Kaaba not mentioned in the Bible?

[Anonymous No.15248459]

>>15248404
consider kys

[Goyim No.15248485]

>>15248411
Acts 21
The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. 1


They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that You yourself are living in obedience to the Law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

[Anonymous No.15248530]

>>15248485
Did he EXPEL or promise to expel Paul?

[Goyim No.15248531]

>>15248451
The Bible does mention that pilgrimage and sacrifice would continue even after the Second Temple was destroyed, yet no Third Temple until the endtimes. Muslims are the only ones carrying out the will of god thus.

Moses and his followers also lived in the Arab desert using the The Ark of the Covenant as a substitute for the Temple, similar custom.

(Interestingly, Greek Historians also mention an Ancient temple in the region revealed by all Arabians)

[Anonymous No.15248541]

Why are you bothering with this OP? Christian and I assume also Jewish teachings have just as much contradictions as Islam.

[Anonymous No.15249001]

>>15248531
>yet no Third Temple until the endtimes.
>what is “I will build the temple in three days”
Are Muslims so low IQ they cannot understand or do they simply refuse to do it?

[Goyim No.15249150]

>>15249001
>The temple mentioned in Ezekiel.
By third temple I mean a short hand for the end times.

The Bible says there would be pilgrimage and sacrifice until the end times,

[Anonymous No.15249195]

>>15249150
>The Bible says there would be pilgrimage and sacrifice until the end times,

What?

[Anonymous No.15249635]

>>15248531
>The Bible does mention that pilgrimage and sacrifice would continue even after the Second Temple was destroyed, yet no Third Temple until the endtimes
Source

[Anonymous No.15250038]

>>15247576
>I was just giving examples of contemporary criticisms at the time, to show that the Quran already answers most of them

The Quran stating that people will think it's bullshit proves that it's not bullshit? Really?

[Anonymous No.15250189]

Based?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-F4yjuWCfs

[Anonymous No.15250884]

>>15250189
>camel urine bad

[Anonymous No.15251175]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Shadow_of_the_Sword_(book)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam:_The_Untold_Story

[Anonymous No.15251494]

>>15241698
How is it cross dressing? Blankets are unisex.

[Anonymous No.15251512]

>>15251494

[Anonymous No.15251515]

>>15251512
I'm not Shiite so who cares.

[Anonymous No.15252887]

>>15251175
This

[Anonymous No.15253089]

>>15251515
Why aren't you Shiite?

[Anonymous No.15253779]

[Anonymous No.15254142]

>>15253779
>literature
Why does no one know about prominent Islamic writers over the past 200 years?

>beautiful nasheeds
Other music is prohibited.

>highly detailed art
Images of living beings are forbidden (that your picture is haraam), so Muslims had to draw flowers, lines and geometric shapes.

>history of science, math and philosophy
This was made possible thanks to the sect of mutazilites. After their defeat, the golden age of Islamic science ended.

How many Muslims are there among Nobel laureates?

>monogamy
The compiler of the picture does not know Islam well.

>traditionalism
Hundreds of different teachings that contradict each other. From Zomby-Muslims* to Salafi Anthropomorphists. You cannot name at least 10 theologians who would be recognized by all Sunnis of the world.

* - watch this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5goISKPSH8

I don’t even want to talk about Shiites, a whole parallel Islam with its sects.

>health
In hadiths, Muslims are advised to drink camel urine and do bloodletting. This is not a scientific approach to medicine.

>harems
Yes, we know that slavery is approved by Islam and is still practiced. Even a Muslim can be a slave to a Muslim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world

[Anonymous No.15254287]

>>15254142
>literature
wahhabiism

>beautiful nasheeds
no

>highly detailed art
no

>history of science, mayh and philosophy
again, wahhabism

>monogamy
true, but monogamy is encouraged

>traditionalism
any religion goes through balkanisation, a true muslim is independent of sects.

>health
you fucking idiot, how the hell did islam win wars by treating their wounded with piss and bloodletting? there's a hadith where a wounded a soldier had to havw their head wrapped, and he asked others as to how he was going to do his wuduq for prayer(cleaning with water that involves the head before prayer). muhhamads freinds advised him to put water on his open wound, and as a result, he died from that. muhammad condemmed his freinds for a long time for that, saying that "if you don't know, inquire!"

>harems
true, but slavery is discouraged and freeing slaves is a good deed. muhammad hinself freed slaves, example:bilal bin rabbah

[Anonymous No.15254383]

>>15254287
>beautiful nasheeds
>no
>highly detailed art
>no
Lol, nice argumentation.

>wahhabiism
Why is Wahhabism not true Islam?

>a true muslim is independent of sects
Name at least 10 true Muslim teachers of our time who agree with each other on everything about Islam.

>how the hell did islam win wars by treating their wounded with piss and bloodletting?
They had different types of medicine, sometimes based on purely empirical observations, and there is nothing specifically Islamic about it.

You are too dumb to understand that the hadith is a lot of unscientific nonsense. If you reject this hadiths, you will have to reject many foundations of Islamic dogma, which are based on hadiths with the same isnad.

[Anonymous No.15254394]

>>15254383
>that the hadith is a lot of unscientific nonsense
*has

[Anonymous No.15254550]

>>15254383
>>15254383
>Lol, nice arguementation
it's the only thing to say to people who argue about islam forbidding music and images of living things. it's simply not true, if you can't see that, you're either bat fucking blind or purposefully closing your eyes to confirm your sentiment.

>why is wahhabism not true islam
modernity, same way believing the pope to be a pure being with no temptation is not what jesus/god intended christianity to be at all.

>name at least 10 true Muslim teachers of our time who agree with each other on everything about Islam.

whether people agree with each other or not is irrelevant. you're on a fucking literature board, i assume you know a bit of philosophy. no two minds are the same. how the fuck would anyone agree on anything if external influence is flying everywhere from philosophy to nihilist Glarp and Torky cartoons. it's like saying, "name 5 people who completely agree with each other on everything about plato. you can't, omg plato btfo!!!!11!" of course people think differently, what did you expect?

>they had .....medicine.... islamic about it.
congrats, you've just realized that medicine has almost no relation to islam.

>hadith has a lot of uncientific nonsence.
"unscientific" is a huge red flag for me. yikes. go back to r/atheism or /lgbt/ or something.

>if you reject this hadith
i don't

[Anonymous No.15254660]

>>15254550
About Pictures:

https://sunnah.com/muslim/37/148
"Those who paint pictures would be punished on the Day of Resurrection and it would be said to them: Breathe soul into what you have created."

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/78/136
"Such people as paint these pictures will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection ."

https://sunnah.com/muslim/37/153
"He who painted pictures in the world would be compelled to breathe soul in them on the Day of Resurrection, but he would not be able to breathe soul (in them)."

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/34/58
"The angels do not enter a house where there are pictures."

https://sunnah.com/muslim/37/152
"All the painters who make pictures would be in the fire of Hell. The soul will be breathed in every picture prepared by him and it shall punish him in the Hell"

[Anonymous No.15254667]

>>15254550
About Music:

https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/95
“People among my nation will drink wine, calling it by another name, and musical instruments will be played for them and singing girls (will sing for them). Allah will cause the earth to swallow them up, and will turn them into monkeys and pigs.”

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/74/16
"From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

https://sunnah.com/nasai/38/3
"How many will dispute with your father on the Day of Resurrection! How can he be saved who has so many disputants? And your openly allowing musical instruments and wind instruments is an innovation in Islam. I was thinking of sending someone to you who would cut off your evil long hair."

[Anonymous No.15254724]

>>15254550
>it's simply not true
You distort and adapt Islam to yourself and talk about 'true' Muslims. Your 'true Islam' is just your construction based on assumptions and concessions. Typical 'progressive muslim'. Most modern Muslim scholars will anathematize you if you tell them about your views.

>whether people agree with each other or not is irrelevant
What is your aqidah? What understanding of Islam do you follow?

>you've just realized that medicine has almost no relation to islam
In the picture there was the word "health" as something specifically Islamic, while there are hadiths that speak about things dangerous to health.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/59/126
"If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink) and take it out, for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

https://sunnah.com/urn/1275500
“If a fly falls into your drink, dip it into it then throw it away, for on one of its wings is a disease and on the other is a cure.”

>"unscientific" is a huge red flag for me
These are your problems, idiot.

[Anonymous No.15255102]

>>15254724
blow it out your ass, faggot. your 'sources' are nothing. they are heresay. don't even think of calling me negligent to debate due to my response("Wow muslim so dumb, dont even want to think bro xd"), you are unchangable, and so am i. you live for destruction of tradition, you are nothing. do the world a favour, and never reproduce, it's not like you will anyway. fucking redditor

[Anonymous No.15255230]

>>15255102
tl;dr, stay the fuck far away from /lit/ if you have no knowledge of philosophy or humanities, you physicality-obsessed redditor. fuck you.

[Anonymous No.15255249]

>>15255102
>your 'sources' are nothing. they are heresay.
It turns out that you're not a Muslim. Nice.

I quote hadiths that are recognized by all Sunnis. You are too dumb to understand that Islam is based not only on the Qur'an, but also on the Sunnah, which is stated in the hadiths.

>Wow muslim so dumb
You're dumb, but you are not a Muslim.

[Anonymous No.15255268]

>>15255230
Don't cry, please. You act like a hysterical girl.

[Anonymous No.15255311]

>>15241193
And nobody pretends that ancient Jews weren't disgusting theocratic extremists

[Anonymous No.15255312]

>>15255268
reflect upon yourself, maybe you'd get wiser that way instead of resorting to flimsy defense mechanisms :)

[Anonymous No.15255351]

>>15255312
You reject the hadith. You are not a Muslim. It is pointless to argue with you further.

[Anonymous No.15255374]

>>15255351
i don't reject the hadith, it's foolish to say that all haditg are right. it's foolish to assume the infalliability of people other than the prophets. also, you're a science guy right? search: Dunning-Krueger Effect

[Anonymous No.15255397]

>>15255374
>other than the prophets
You do not recognize Muhammad as a prophet? What sources of Islam do you consider reliable?

[Goyim No.15255400]

>>15255351
The Hadith vary in authenticity (you'll easily find some that contradict each other for example).

>>15254724
Flies carry bacteria on the surface and naturally antibiotics and antibodies within themselves. The full hadith says the disease is first and the cure is last. If anything it seeded the idea that disease has a microscopic cause, smaller than a flywing

[Anonymous No.15255412]

>>15255397
hadith are a recollection of memory of the freinds of muhammad. muhammad didn't write his opinions. the freinds of muhammad are far from perfect, even in their own hadith. did i mention, your great grandparents would probably be disappointed of you?

[Anonymous No.15255434]

>blow it out your ass, faggot. your 'sources' are nothing. they are heresay. you are nothing it's not like you will anyway. fucking redditor stay the fuck far away from /lit/ if you have no knowledge of philosophy or humanities, you physicality-obsessed redditor. fuck you.

[Anonymous No.15255440]

>>15255434
that's pretty cheap

[Anonymous No.15255447]

>>15236875
Have you ever actually met a Muslim? Trust me, they'll do more to undermine your view of Islam than any book you could read.

[Anonymous No.15255495]

>>15255400
These are authentic hadiths about music and images. If you reject them, you will have to reject many other things in Islam.

>a fly infects and neutralizes water at the same time
Fucking kek

>>15255412
All Islam is built on the Quran and Hadith. If people refused reliable hadiths that they did not like, then Islam would quickly turn into a kind of new-age liberal sect.

You are not a Muslim.

[Anonymous No.15255512]

>>15255495
there is nothing here. go.

[Anonymous No.15255514]

>that's pretty cheap. blow it out your ass, faggot. your 'sources' are nothing. they are heresay. you are nothing it's not like you will anyway. fucking redditor stay the fuck far away from /lit/ if you have no knowledge of philosophy or humanities, you physicality-obsessed redditor. fuck you.

[Anonymous No.15255533]

>>15255512
>go
Where? I want to talk with people about Islam. Pass by if this thread offends you.

[Anonymous No.15255609]

>>15255495
are you a Muslim?

[Anonymous No.15255711]

>>15255609
No.

[Anonymous No.15255747]

>>15255711
what is your religion?
also what do you think about sufis and shias?

[Goyim No.15255749]

>>15255495
Fully authentic hadith have multiple lines of transmission. One line of transmission can mean someone lied or made a mistake.

[Goyim No.15255962]

>>15255311
>ancient Jews not all Jews

>>15254660
The spoken word and poetry is a better form of expression than images or music, since it requires no training or investment. Music and images require an aristocratic communism of wealth, which doesnt last long. literature like the Quran and the Bible outlasted the idols

[Anonymous No.15256194]

>>15255747
>what is your religion?
Orthodox Christianity.

>also what do you think about sufis and shias?
Sufism is quite interesting, but I read too much of Geydar Dzhemal to take Sufism as truth. He calls the Sufism (and philosophy of Guenon, Schuon, Burckhardt, Lings, etc.) paganism and contrasts the religion of the prophets and the natural religion (doctrine of cosmic cycles). According to Dzhemal, Hayy ibn Yaqdhan (if you don’t know this name, google it) is a pagan. God can only appear in revelation and philosophy/tasawwuf do not lead to God. Islamized Platonism and any form of traditionalism must be rejected.

Dzhemal tries to refute Ibn Arabi through an appeal to Nahj al-Balagha. You can read it here using Google Translate - http://www.kontrudar.com/faq/o-ponimani-doktriny-ibn-arabi

I predict the Shiite renaissance among Muslims in /lit/ when his texts begin to be translated into English.

In fact, this is the Guenonian esotericism in a nutshell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpg6v7ZO60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmM-2rFHyws

(I'm joking, but such forms of Sufism are ubiquitous in the Caucasus)

[Anonymous No.15256295]

>>15256194
thanks for the explanation.

also is it true that orthodox Christianity and Shia Islam have a ton of similarities?

[Anonymous No.15256424]

>>15256295
Perhaps the similarity of eschatologies. The figure of Mahdi and the figure of the hidden King (the Greeks have a text that says about the return of the Orthodox emperor before the end of time).

But Christ said that 'about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father'. Therefore, I am only interested in eschatology, which doesn't go beyond the Orthodox interpretation of the Book of the Apocalypse.

The rest of Orthodox Christianity and Shiism are little similar.

[Anonymous No.15256455]

>>15255447
pretty accurate

[Anonymous No.15256474]

>>15256194
You would like Louis Massignon's The Three Prayers of Abraham (hasn't been translated out of french yet afaik).

He is favourable to Islam but notes its limitations, and interestingly he really hates Ibn Arabi and that style of Sufism, to which he opposes the Sufism of al-Hallaj.

[Anonymous No.15256548]

>>15237333
You shouldn't post images of Muhammad dude.

[Anonymous No.15256921]

>>15256474
Thank you. He is an amazing person.

He was also connected with other interesting people - Charles de Foucauld, Anastas Al-Karmali, Henry Corbin, etc.

[Anonymous No.15257849]

>>15247746
Nothing, not even hadiths are accepted by EVERY sunni. Even textual quranic interpretation of the meaning of certain archaic words differ from scholar to scholar and its why all english translations are radically different unless they copy other translations

[Anonymous No.15258285]

>>15257849
What is the unity of Muslims based on?

[Anonymous No.15258317]

>>15258285
>unity of Muslims

[Anonymous No.15258416]

>polemics


Explain how Muslims btfo Byzantium and the Sassanids. It's almost as if Allah was on their side.

[Anonymous No.15258422]

>>15258285
They all agree on the oneness of god or tawhid and the major prophets, but even prophethood is doubted because the quran says there are thousands and every nation was sent some. Theres actual discussion about alexander the great being a prophet along with buddha zoraster etc. so really only that the quran was sent to muhammad, the bible and torah are divine but corrupted over time and there is only one god are what all muslims believe

[Anonymous No.15258426]

>>15258416
Why are Americans and Europeans economically successful, but not Muslims? Does God stand on the side of the USA and Europe?

[Anonymous No.15258436]

>>15258422
Why do Sunnis and Shiites consider each other kafirs? They have the same Quran.

[Anonymous No.15258457]

>>15236875
>Are there any good books criticizing Islam?
No. All criticism of islam can be easily refuted if you would just read the entire Quran with an open mind and not stubbornly ignore parts of it.

[Anonymous No.15258465]

>>15258457
please read more books

[Anonymous No.15258470]

>>15258436
I'm semi-confused about this topic becuase i'm not a muslim. I'm a religious studies doctorate dropout and the from what I know the kaffir accusations between the two always happened when there was political tension in the region and are based off lying/propaganda about what the other believes

[Anonymous No.15258519]

>>15236891
There's more than 5-6.
There's the four juridical schools: Malik, Shafi'i, Ibn Hanbal, Abu Hanifa.
Tafsir (Exegesis of the Quran): Ibn Kathir, Tabari, Suyuti, Qurtubi
Tarikh (History): Tabari, Ibn Saad, Ibn Athir, Ibn Kathir.
Compilations of hadiths: Bukhari, Muslim, Nasai, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, the Muwattah of Malik, the Musnad of Ibn Hanbal.
Nawawi did a commentary on Sahih Muslim and compiled the 40 essential Hadiths.
Ibn Hajar did a commentary on Sahih Bukhari.
Etc.

[Anonymous No.15258606]

>>15258426
These countries are in debt and have production overseas. Muslims are in debt to noone

[Anonymous No.15258626]

>>15258606
lol

[Goyin No.15258637]

>>15258436
Its just a differencr of opinion on successorship. Sunni are neutral, and Shia maintain it was Ali, and the rivalry sometimes induces differences

[Anonymous No.15259398]

>>15236875
>Islamic
cringe

[Anonymous No.15259462]

>>15236875
Just read the Quran itself, it was revealed over decades and mentions and ripostes many of the contemporary critics of the time

[Anonymous No.15259484]

>>15239167
Oh, fuck off, you cunt. You think you can just type a one word reply and make the people you’ve been replying to seem silly? Explain why they’re wrong. Actually put your arguments to challenge. Cunt.

[Anonymous No.15259745]

>>15252887
Thanks.

[Anonymous No.15260742]

>>15240169
This

[Anonymous No.15260975]

>>15237317
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.15260999]

>>15237317
>Abdul Saleeb
lol, what, hahahaha
>Nabeel Qureshi
oh no, HAHAHA
>Robert Spencer
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.15261184]

>>15260975
>>15260999
Samefagging, I love it

[Anonymous No.15261190]

>>15258606
Be a fucking idiot somewhere else.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/806188/national-debt-of-the-arab-world-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/

[Anonymous No.15261196]

>>15260975
>>15260999
based

[Anonymous No.15261215]

>>15261190
>The source did not provide data for Libya, Syria and Palestine.

People there know how to make their own bread, theyre indebted to noone like China

[Anonymous No.15261235]

>>15261215
It does not provide data of those places because those places are fucking hellholes in which data gathering is fucking impossible due to conflicts & in-fighting. Your head is so fucking up your ass that you can't see such a fucking obvious thing, but judging by the fact that your countries haven't accomplished a single shit for the last 300 years it doesn't surprise me at all.

[Anonymous No.15261285]

>>15261235
>Defeated Soviet communism
>Defeat Jewish neocon/trotskyism
>Save Europe from "Russian" Seven-Banker invasion thru Chechnya

Arabs have the only real practising Christians in the whole world.

The Arab frontier prevents mass genocides like the billions killed and enslaved by communism in the 20th century.

>Be the only economies free from the globalist system NWO, jews kvetching

>Free other countries from jewish trotskyism like Latin America

>Prevent inquisition Spain from tyrannizing Europe, protecting British allies and America

>Publish literature in the 1700s, 1001 Nights, inspiring the whole Gothic genre

>Rescue millions of European Refugees from Russian wars in the 1800s Circassia

[Anonymous No.15261409]

>>15261285
>>Defeated Soviet communism
How? With the CIA's help?

>>Defeat Jewish neocon/Trotskyism
Yet here you are, trapped in the shithole that is the Middle East.

>>Save Europe from "Russian" Seven-Banker invasion thru Chechnya
You haven't saved shit. East Europe still depends on Russian gas to run their kitchens and Chechenia is still Russian. You won nothing. Moreover, you killed innocent civilians just to get media attention so that the Russians could accept your demands. Guess what happened? They leveled Grozni to the damn fucking ground. Now your presence is more hated than ever. Good job.

>The Arab frontier prevents mass genocides like the billions killed and enslaved by communism in the 20th century.
Yet I can't stop hearing how Christians and Muslim minorities are being genocided there. Hmmm, strange...

>>Be the only economies free from the globalist system NWO, jews kvetching.
When oil becomes too expensive to extract and refine, how will you survive? You have nothing of interest besides that. This isn't the Middle Ages, and the Silk Road doesn't exist so you better start learning how to suck cock good because that's what you will do if you want your shitty region to survive.

>>Free other countries from Jewish Trotskyism like Latin America
What?

>>Prevent inquisition Spain from tyrannizing Europe, protecting British allies and America
Hahahahahahaha...Wait, you're serious...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>Publish literature in the 1700s, 1001 Nights, inspiring the whole Gothic genre
Congratulation, you made a single good piece of literature in what? 300 years?

>>Rescue millions of European Refugees from Russian wars in the 1800s Circassia
Oh, wow. Great humanitarian deed from your part. Now explain to me how the fuck does that have anything to do with what we're talking about.

[Anonymous No.15261506]

>>15261409
>CIA's help
Yet afghans managed to bankrupt Jew York into depending on foreign immigration and economies, now being easily upset by coronavirus

The Russian jewish seven-bankers were successfully stood down by the Chechens and have lost significant power

>Oil
The oil doesnt benefit anyone just saudis

>Spain
Spain.was always considered an enemy of Britain, also there was expansionist France at the time that had to be contained

>literature
Bin laden was an exact political thinker who exposed everything going on. Thats superior to any fake literature produced by jews, or their fake jewish physics which offers no theories but holds us back philosophically.

Most platitudes in "modern" literature actually originates with communist Jews ("Win the battle for democracy" - Karl Marx)

And English is a modern language thats the only reason lit is expanding in it, and the American experience is still new. Whereas Arabs have to contend with 4000 years of works in prior history, not a mere 300

[Anonymous No.15261951]

>>15261184
Hey, mister kafir, maybe try washing your ass sometime.

[Anonymous No.15261959]

>>15256548
Kek.

[Anonymous No.15262295]

>>15255962

Idols still exist, and will continue to exist in museums next to the qurans

[Anonymous No.15262472]

>>15258457
Pretty much the opposite. Anyone who reads the Quran with an open mind will see right away that the entire religion is a made up cult used for political gain.
The Quran is unironically the best piece of anti-mohemetism litterature .

[Anonymous No.15262703]

Not a book but I guess it suits what you're looking for, it blackpilled me about shitlslam
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Anonymous No.15262759]

>>15256548
He shouldn't post any images. Islam forbids this.

[Anonymous No.15263073]

>>15262472
>Anyone who reads the Quran with an open mind will see right away that the entire religion is a made up cult used for political gain
Whenever someone makes a claim like this, it is a clear sign you can disregard everything they say. The Prophet (pbuh) was a respected man with a good life before he claimed prophethood, and over the next ten years, he suffered immense trials for it. Whereas he was a merchant with good social status and economy before, he lost his social status, was persecuted, boycotted, harassed, starved, and ultimately exiled from his home. He lost family and friends, and the few people who joined him suffered along with him. No person who seeks political gain would endure 13 years of torture, with no hope of ever getting power. It was completely unrealistic that he would succeed in his mission, and the fact that he did was nothing short of miraculous. But of course, ignorant people back then would bark at him, and ignorant people today are no different, yet there is not a human in history who has been as deserving of praise as he. May God's peace and blessings be upon him.

[Anonymous No.15263142]

>>15263073
Yeah yeah keep your bullshit for yourself. You know damn well these are half-truths commonly used to either trick westerners or brainwash naive potential converts.
He tried to gain power peacedully at first, but it didn't work and then, conveniently, violent verses that contradict the previous peaceful ones were revealed to him and he wasn't so peaceful anymore.
If you're a muslim you know all this but obviously you did not write about it because of the cognitive dissonance. Such is the muslim (or rather Ash'arite) way of (not)thinking.

[Anonymous No.15263223]

>>15263142
Again, you're very clearly ignorant.
>When did the permission to fight come?
After 13 years of persecution, boycots, and exile, when the Muslims were in danger of mass murder.
>Why?
Because they had a right to defend themselves, and despite oppression, they had gained the numbers to fight, by the grace of God.
>How did the Muslims use the permission to fight?
They fought primarily in self defense against a nation that had repeatedly tried to genocide them. The battles of Badr, Uhud, Khandaq, and more are proof of Muslims defending against Quraishi aggression.
>When the Prophet (pbuh) had the power, and came back to Mecca, to the people who tortured him, starved his people, exiled him, and fought multiple battles to kill him, all simply because he said God is One, what did he do to them?
You know what he did.

[Anonymous No.15263277]

>>15263223
Again, more lies and half truths. Do you actually believe all this or is this just bad Taqqiya?

[Anonymous No.15263308]

>>15263277
>muh taqiyyah
I'm fasting, and have better uses for my time. Word of advice, if your only response is going to be "muh taqiyyah" whenever you talk with Muslims, maybe don't bother.

[Anonymous No.15263360]

>>15263308
Yeah keep that stupid bullshit to yourself, the only one here convinced by your lies is yourself.

[Anonymous No.15263594]

>>15263277
>>15263360
>all this seething
What happened? Your sister married a Muslim?

[Anonymous No.15264057]

>>15263594
Even Muslims realize that marrying a Muslim is not very good. Kek.

[Anonymous No.15264086]

i'm surprised none of y'all have mentioned the end of faith or sam harris generally.

[Anonymous No.15264438]

>>15264086
"Fight those who fight you but do not trangress. Indeed Allah does not love the transgressors" 2:190

"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and rely upon Allah" 8:61

"And if any one of the Pagans seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know" 9:6

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly." 60:8

"Nearest in affection to those who believe are those who say 'We are Christians'"- 5:82

[Anonymous No.15264548]

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Just browse the FAQs and articles. Islam is incompatible with the modern world. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.15264549]

>>15264438
bro, didn't you hear? anything and everything that might make islam look good is taqiyyah, even those verses you quote from the quran are taqiyyah. also, every one of those verses is from the meccan period, and all the madinan verses are barbaric and violent. you don't need to know the history of the verses, when and where they came to be, and how the early muslims understood them - you can just assume the worst, and that's plenty academic and scholarly. after all, we're not really interested in understanding islam, just finding excuses to condemn it. :)

[Anonymous No.15264553]

>>15264548
Obviously it is.

[Anonymous No.15264613]

Is there an honest reliable translation of the Quran? I was told by an Arabic speaker knowledgeable about religion that there's none and all of them soften its violent and brutal tone by translating what should be "kill" as "fight" and such things. Is that true?

[Anonymous No.15264819]

>>15264613
Yes that's true. The word for beat your wife is literally beat (daraba) and the words fight is kill (qatala)

[Anonymous No.15265490]

>>15236875
Would you also be interested in pro-Islam books if they were in-depth, or are you just looking around for something to cite (not read) in /pol/ arguments?

[Anonymous No.15265507]

>>15238436
>hadiths
>message from God
Huh?

[Anonymous No.15265640]

>>15246364
Source: trust me bro

[Anonymous No.15265656]

>>15264548
And that's a good thing.

[Anonymous No.15265678]

>>15246466
The Quran was revealed to Mohammad pbuh by the angel Gabriel, the surahs were passed around orally for about 100 years after his death, and finally compiled into one book. Nobody thinks the Quran was written by God.

[Anonymous No.15265797]

>>15258285
Submission to God.

[Anonymous No.15265874]

>>15236875
1. Andrew G. Bannister, An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur'an, Lexington Books, 2014.
2. David S. Powers, Muhammad is Not the Father of Any of Your Men: The Making of the Last Prophet, University of Pennsylvania Press, 2011.
3. Joseph Schacht, The Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence, Oxford University Press, 1950.
4. Keith Small, Textual Criticism and Qur'an Manuscripts, Lexington Books, 2012.

The first explains how the Qur'an was composed orally by Muhammad using standard techniques of oral performers. The second shows how the Qur'an was altered and how early Islamic history was retconned in order to secure Muhammad's status as the last prophet. The third, although flawed, dealt a severe blow to the authenticity of hadith science from which it has never recovered. The fourth falsifies absolute preservation of the Qur'an.

[Anonymous No.15266189]

>>15265874
Thanks a lot! So many good books in this thread.

[Anonymous No.15266420]

>>15264613
In Arabic the words fight and kill are the same (qtl).

Quran 2:190
"Fight in the way of God those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed, God does not like the transgressors."

Quran 8:61
"And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in God."

Quran 4:90
"So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then God has not made for you a cause against them."

Quran 6:108
"And do not insult those they invoke other than God, lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge."

Quran 60:7

"Perhaps God will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And God is mighty. And God is Forgiving and Merciful."

Quran 60:8

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly."

Quran 60:9
"God only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

Quran 41:34
"And not alike are the good deed and the evil deed. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity as though he was a bosom friendm"

Quran 5:82
"You will find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe, those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud."

Quran 29:46
"And do not argue with the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are to Him - Muslims (in submission)."

Quran 22:40
"Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is God - For had it not been for God's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and worship-places, wherein the name of God is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily God helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! God is Strong, Almighty "

Quran 5:48
"To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had God willed, He would have made you one nation, but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To God is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."

Quran 9:6

"And if any one of the pagans seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

[Anonymous No.15266447]

>>15264549
Lol. They just repeat what the Jews tell them, even though most of the peaceful verses are medinan anyway.

The Torah says Jews have to kill everyone in their "promised land, Syeia etc.", and foretells that the jews would be living all around the world.

[Anonymous No.15266514]

>>15236875
they probably have some recommendations

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[Anonymous No.15266539]

>>15236875

>Okay just stay with me on this for a minute. The FIRST time, they had some good ideas and they said some good things, but they got it wrong. And the SECOND time had more of the same, but they still hadn't gotten it perfect. Then, the THIRD time, we COMPLETELY PERFECTED IT FOR ALL TIME and this will never change. So don't you EVER go thinking that FOURTH, FIFTH or SIXTH heresy is valid!

[Anonymous No.15266555]

>>15236875
Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie is such a powerful criticism of Islamic dogma that every muslim nation called for his death and he had to go into hiding.

[Anonymous No.15266576]

>>15266539
The Torah was just for Hebrews, and Islam and Christianity are for Gentiles.

[Anonymous No.15266618]

>>15266514
100% Jewish Media Control:
cnn jeff zucker
fox bob iger
abc bob iger
disney bob iger
cbs sumner rothstein
nbc brian roberts
fb mark zuckerberg
ig mark zuckerberg
google sergei brin
youtube sergei brin

"Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes." - Bin Laden

"The JEWS have taken control of your ECONOMY, through which they have then taken control of your MEDIA, and now control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against." - Bin Laden

[Anonymous No.15267129]

>>15236875
Islam believes that the Quran exists co-eternally with God and is the perfect inerrant word of God
But the Quran also says that Christians believe the Trinity is God, Christ, and Mary, as three deities.
Christianity believes that the Trinity is the Father, Son (Christ), and the Holy Ghost. Which are three persons as one deity. Not three deities, and definitely not with Mary in the Trinity.

This alone should be enough to discredit any idea that the Quran is inerrant, perfect, and co-eternal with God. And that should be enough to discredit Islam as being truth.

[Anonymous No.15267148]

>>15266555
>Salman Rushdie
based trips and sounds /lit/ af

[Anonymous No.15267157]

>>15239489
>PERSIA WAS SO FUCKING COOL BEFORE ISLAM RUINED IT, AND NOW IT'S UTTER SHITE
utter shi’ite

[Anonymous No.15267162]

>>15267129
>But the Quran also says that Christians believe the Trinity is God, Christ, and Mary, as three deities.
The Quran is just stating Christianity's true beliefs

[Anonymous No.15267176]

>>15267129
>Christian says x, Muslim says y
>but I’m Christian so therefore y is wrong

[Anonymous No.15267623]

>>15236875
Read Robert Spencer

[Anonymous No.15267643]

>>15267129
It doesnt say Mary is in the Christian trinity. It just condemns some people for worshipping her and Jesus (Chapter 5). Just like it says "The Jews said, "Ezra is the Son of God", obviously only some jews believe this

[Anonymous No.15267653]

>>15240409
The politically incorrect guide series is hit or miss but mostly miss. A lot of shitty neocon midwit takes.
That being said, Robert Spencer is a very smart guy and a great writer, and his book in the series is one of the hits

[Anonymous No.15267685]

>>15267623
>Read Robert Spencer
Nonononoo

[Anonymous No.15268025]

>>15267685
Wtf he looks like something out of Julius Streichers works

>>15266618
>>15266420
interesting quotes

[Anonymous No.15268240]

>>15267176
Muhammad built his idea of Christianity on rumors.

[Anonymous No.15268482]

>>15267162
>>15267176
Why do muslims just blatantly lie when cornered with actual arguments against their beliefs?

[Anonymous No.15268660]

>>15268482
"And when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen." - Quran

It doesnt say anything about the trinity,

[Anonymous No.15268707]

>>15267685
>>15268025
He’s Greek and Greek Orthodox

[Anonymous No.15269569]

>>15236891
>Hadith
based as fuck.
best part is where it commands the death penalty for those that leave islam

[Anonymous No.15269666]

>>15245700
t. Taqiyya

[Anonymous No.15269670]

>>15248404
What about it?

[Anonymous No.15269677]

>>15248531
>
Moses and his followers also lived in the Arab desert using the The Ark of the Covenant as a substitute for the Temple, similar custom.

No nO NO you dumb retard

[Anonymous No.15269701]

>>15267129
>But the Quran also says that Christians believe the Trinity is God, Christ, and Mary, as three deities.
Literally false. The Quran condemns Christians for worshipping Mary, may God be pleased with her, and that is in fact something Christians do. It does not claim she is part of the trinity, although other verses of the Quran do condemn trinitarian polytheism.

[Anonymous No.15269930]

>>15267643
The jews never believed Ezra was the son of God. It is another fail from Muhammad.

Other terrible mistakes from muhammad:
>Pharaoh was the king of Egypt. I mean, quran says there was a guy called Pharaoh who was the king of Egypt.
>Mary the mother of Jesus was also the sister of Moses (!?)

[Anonymous No.15270105]

>>15269930
It's amazing how kuffar never change. The same accusations the Jews of Medina made are still being made by random kuffar today, despite clear answers from the Prophet and the scholars. There are literally ahadith refuting these claims, yet these sheep keep repeating them a thousand years later.

[Anonymous No.15270120]

>>15270105
>There are literally ahadith refuting these claims

Show me ten (10)

[Anonymous No.15270215]

>>15269569
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them. 4:90

[Anonymous No.15270279]

>>15269930
This.

It was based on erroneous rumors and oral legends that the Arabs had.

[Anonymous No.15270281]

>>15270120
The Quran is only talking about some Jews (The Jews said Ezra is the Son of God). The Gospel also talks about Jews also but it doesnt always apply the term to every single Jew.

>Pharoah as King
The Quran mentions the ruler in Joseph's time as King instead of Pharoah (unlike Moses' time). Egypt was often ruled by foreign rulers like the Hyksos, its valid.

>Chronology
Sister of Aaron is just rhetorical.
The Quran clearly mentions many different prophets between Moses and then - David and Solomon etc. Destruction of the temple many other events.

[Anonymous No.15270480]

>>15270281
>The Quran is only talking about some Jews (The Jews said Ezra is the Son of God). The Gospel also talks about Jews also but it doesnt always apply the term to every single Jew.

Never in the history of judaism a jew believed Ezra was a son of God. Never. If I am wrong show me the historical source.


>The Quran mentions the ruler in Joseph's time as King instead of Pharoah (unlike Moses' time). Egypt was often ruled by foreign rulers like the Hyksos, its valid.

What I'm saying is in the Quran both Pharaoh and king in Moses and Joseph is the very same person.


>Chronology
Sister of Aaron is just rhetorical.
Obviously not, since the very same muslim didn't know how to answer.
Ibn Kathir.
(O sister of Harun!) referring to the brother of Musa, because she was of his descendants. This is similar to the saying, `O brother of Tamim,' to one who is from the Tamimi tribe, and `O brother of Mudar,' to one who is from the Mudari tribe. It has also been said that she was related to a righteous man among them whose name was Harun and she was comparable to him in her abstinence and worship.

When you a lot of reads it means you don't have a proper answer.

>The Quran clearly mentions many different prophets between Moses and then - David and Solomon etc. Destruction of the temple many other events.
So what?, Muhammad knew the basic sacred history as everyone in the old Arabic world.

[Anonymous No.15271383]

>>15270281
Is there historical evidence that there was at least one group of Jews who considered Ezra the son of God?

[Anonymous No.15272088]

>>15267685
he looks like an arab

[Anonymous No.15273569]

>>15258416
Very stupid argument. Any wars are usually won by someone. This doesn't mean that any winner is one who has the truth.