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/lit/ - Literature

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15215208 No.15215208 [Reply] [Original]

How can landlords defend this behavior?

Continued The Wealth of Nations/Adam Smith thread

>> No.15215229

>>15215208
“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”
― Adam Smith
“It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”
― Adam Smith
“The interest of [businessmen] is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public ... The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order ... ought never to be adopted, till after having been long and carefully examined ... with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men ... who have generally an interest to deceive and even oppress the public”
― Adam Smith
“In regards to the price of commodities, the rise of wages operates as simple interest does, the rise of profit operates like compound interest.
Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.”
― Adam Smith
“Consumption is the sole end and purpose of all production; and the interest of the producer ought to be attended to, only so far as it may be necessary for promoting that of the consumer.”
― Adam Smith
Starting off with more based quotes

>> No.15215230

anon doesnt own property his parents do
property values in hick towns are irrelevent
look at major cities to continue this discussion

> $800pw for 3bed 2bath 2carlockupgarage
Justify this

>> No.15215240

>>15215208
Most good landlords already charge fair prices, you envious scum.

>> No.15215252

>>15215240
Wrong. Tons of landlords have mortgaged properties and charge rents much higher than the mortgage costs, effectively raising the cost of living for tenants just for unnatural profit

>> No.15215254

>>15215230
>$800pw
Nvm, I missed this. I thought you meant per month.
Yeah, $800 per week is unfair. You are most likely dealing with a Jew.
I am deleting previous post because I thought you meant 800$ per month.

>> No.15215257

>>15215252
We can only judge it on a case-by-case basis. I agree that $800 per week for a 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car lockup garage is too much.

>> No.15215287

>>15215208
It's justified since the tenet has entered into the contract willingly. If you cannot or are unwilling to pay X, go look for Y, someone who didn't major in the humanities can and will pay X.

>> No.15215305

>>15215252
If you consider profit immoral per se there’s really no argument we can have where we can come to agreement. Capitalist economics is dependent on the idea that profit is desirable and markets are generally non zero sum

>> No.15215311

>>15215254
this is sydney also, aud is worth less than usd

>> No.15215312

>>15215287
Being under threat of homelessness is not entering a contract at will

>> No.15215316

>>15215305
Read Adam Smith, he very explicitly outlines how certain profit is unreasonable and unhealthy

>> No.15215331

>>15215287
>the tenet has entered into the contract willingly
the tenet literally has no power. i swear all libertarians need to be gassed. i am starting to think fascists are better people than them.

>> No.15215352

>>15215331
Why do you assume he is a libertarian just because he thinks being a landlord is not unethical relative to other professions in the capitalist system? You're obnoxious.

>> No.15215387

>>15215316
you don't understand what you're talking about. no one would gain anything if they didn't make income off of it so they can do things such as eating. do you not get how retarded you sound wanting landlords to charge just the upkeep cost of the house and not make anything? the landlord then gets no benefit from the incurred risk. the anon you are replying to is talking about profit as in the landlords cut, his income, which is not the kind of excess profit you are confusing it with, the growth for growth's sake idea you find in corporations.

>> No.15215406

>>15215331
you have other options. you just prefer the increased convenience of renting, or what you probably think you deserve: receiving, over those options because they may involve some level of work or discomfort. you need the rope too.

>> No.15215426

>>15215312
It is.
>>15215331
They do.

If you don't wish to pay the rightful owner what they ask then don't rent from them, find somewhere more affordable, get a roomate, rent a room, live under a bridge or in a van down by the river. What you shouldn't do is think your inability to pay is due to anything more then your shit job, with shit pay, suiting a piece of shit like you.

>> No.15215446

>>15215387
the landlord is better off with money in property at least inflation wont get him then

>>15215406
whats the option if you live in toronto or sydney? work 32 hours a day? live in a hostel?
take the property for your own?(illegal)

>> No.15215457

>>15215426
You can earn 200k a year in sydney and it still isnt enough to buy a house.

>> No.15215461

>>15215387
Have I said anywhere that they should make zero profit from renting? I am referring to unnaturally high profits in comparison to the rates banks give out for mortgages. Landlords can invest a tiny amount of money into a mortgaged property and then rent it out at an excessive rate and have a tenant literally pay off their mortgage for them. This raises the cost of renting unnaturally and exploits the situation of many prospective tenants

>> No.15215463

>>15215426
based
the landlord is asking the price he wants and not accepting less, you should do the same and get a raise or a better job. if you can't then live somewhere you can afford.

>> No.15215465

>>15215457
( X )

>> No.15215475

>>15215446
get 3 roommates and each work 8 hours a day you lazy commie faggot

>> No.15215482

>>15215461
you are complaining about them charging more than the fucking cost of their mortgage payment. yes. buy a house yourself and pay the mortgage if you have a problem with it and take on the risks of owning yourself rather than complain like a grumpy child.

>> No.15215487

>>15215446
a a roommate, commute, or move somewhere cheaper, you lazy faggot.

>> No.15215492

>>15215352
because it is always libertarians make those types of bullshit arguments always looking at things in isolation and not seeing how interconnected relationships (i.e. society) works.

>> No.15215499

>>15215426
Again, Smith addresses this very point when he talks about all members of a trade conspiring to keep prices as high as possible. And with a limited and necessary thing like housing, it is even more acute
>"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices"
-Adam Smith

>> No.15215512

>>15215482
Banks won't grant mortgages if the cost of the mortgage would be ~%40 of the income. Landlords often rent where the cost is %50 of the tenants income

>> No.15215521

>>15215463
>Advocating for tent cities in every single city
Interesting proposal

>> No.15215540

>>15215492
>only libertarians think voluntary agreements exist
You’re going to be shocked at how many “libertarians” you meet after you graduate high school

>> No.15215553

>>15215512
it's your income that's a problem. move somewhere you can afford. or GET A ROOMMATE.
>>15215521
see above^

>> No.15215557

>>15215540
it isn't voluntary you are too stupid to see the power dynamic

>> No.15215592

>>15215557
>tfw to intelligent to just get a job and pay for my house like every functioning adult in the world

>> No.15215604

>>15215426
ah yes pay exorbitant prices or live like an ant. god you people are grotesque. why not just challenge why landlords have the power that they do?

>> No.15215610

>>15215540
Just to clear things up a bit, do you believe that a monopoly on, say oil, violates the liberty of the general public's capacity to acquire what is a naturally occurring resource? In other words, is there any situation at all where a power imbalance effects the liberty of the side in the overpowered position?

>> No.15215621

>>15215604
>why would I get a job when I could just bitch endlessly on the Internet instead?
Insightful commentary as always from our marxoid friends

>> No.15215623

>>15215592
most people are living pay check to pay check and wouldn't be able to handle a surprise five hundred dollar bill

>> No.15215624

>>15215208
They defend it by engaging together in a conspiracy sometimes tacit other times overt to keep prices artificially high.

>> No.15215626

>>15215592
>Believing in the "American Dream" which has been dead for decades
Thats a major cringe, most of the jobs that allow that have either been automated or outsourced

>> No.15215628

>>15215621 see >>15215623
you are obviously baiting or just a sheltered little boy

>> No.15215629

>>15215331
I feel the same way. Libertarians are the most willfully obtuse people on the planet. Like the anon screeching "just move to another city." They act like man was made to serve capital and not capital to serve man. The worst part is they think economics is an actual science and not wild conjecture based on unfalsifiable models which constantly fail to predict the actual behaviour of real economies. Fascists at least understand what human beings actually care about.

>> No.15215637

>>15215512
Why would you pay 50% of your income in rent? Move to a less exclusive neighborhood.
Maybe you shouldn't live in Silicon Valley if you're a Barrista or cleaner?

>> No.15215638

>>15215623
I'm sure our friends in this thread will blame that entirely on the individuals themselves and not, say, the parameters of the economy and the decisions by the government to allow globalization to obliterate the possibility of being middle class

>> No.15215641

>>15215229
wtf no one told me Smith was a socialist cuck

>> No.15215643

>>15215475
3 smelly roommates, no thanks im not a hippy
also need deposit for that 2m dollar home, and what bank will loan that much to someone in their 20s?

>> No.15215648

>>15215487
>commute an extra 4 hours a day you lazy commie!
kys

>> No.15215649

>>15215623
Most people are pretty retarded

>> No.15215651

>>15215604
Why not argue for limits on what landlords can charge instead of saying get rid of landlords altogether?

>> No.15215658
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15215658

>>15215649
t.

>> No.15215660

>>15215626
>having a job is an impossible dream
Major cringe indeed. Yikes bruh, cape

>> No.15215663

>>15215660
ok you are definitely baiting

>> No.15215665

>>15215641
Capitalism always needed socialistic counterbalances from the start, the neolibs have just perverted it beyond recognition these days

>> No.15215666
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15215666

>>15215465

lol

>> No.15215667

>>15215557
like every relationship has? no one is ever going to have completely equal power.

>> No.15215670

>>15215643
>noooooooooooo I don’t want to inconvenience myself in any way mommy give me a $2 million home right nowwwwwww

>> No.15215677

>>15215660
Bud, that might have been a funny thing to say if we weren't literally entering a depression due to the pandemic

>> No.15215684

>>15215638
it can be both. the same people who complain about this shit buy overprice electronics like they're candy.

>> No.15215691

>>15215604
move somewhere else

>> No.15215694

>libertardians literally employing the boomer "le avocado toast" meme

>> No.15215696

>>15215499
>all members of a trade
Then this phenomenon isn't unique to the "trade" of owning property. let's look at the same problem in a different trade. If I want a pizza, but can't afford luigi's, I can go to Mario's, go without pizza, make a pizza, or find an alternative dinner arrangement... I don't demand that society make pizza free, or subsidized. The price set by a landlord is legal and fair; if it isn't legal or economic factors will adjust it, pay it or don't, there is no third option .

>> No.15215702

>>15215670
t. living in mommy's home with tendies cooking in the oven under his covers being comfy shitposting on his phone with blacked open in another tab

>> No.15215708

>>15215691
>people should have to move away from their family, friends and communities just to own a home so landlords can make a bit of extra cash on the side
nice worldview retard
No wonder suicides, depression and drug addiction is sky-rocketing

>> No.15215710

>>15215643
>not willing to do anything slightly inconvenient or discomforting.
typical. a perfect example of the whiny faggots in this thread.

>> No.15215711

>>15215677
As if this marxoid rhetoric is new or contingent upon the current state of the economy in any way

>> No.15215714

>>15215696
I never said to make rent free, just return it to reasonable rates that previous generations enjoyed
See>>15215666

>> No.15215715
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15215715

>>15215696
>housing = buying a pizza

>> No.15215723

>>15215711
Will you even acknowledge that manufacturing jobs have been almost entirely automated or outsourced? Economic prospects for the lower class have been shit for 40 years

>> No.15215731

>>15215702
It’s no surprise that a marxoid literally cannot even imagine a person working for a living

>> No.15215737
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15215737

>>15215643
>3 smelly roommates, no thanks im not a hippy

massive kek
you'll never make it

>> No.15215740
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15215740

>all the “hard workers” ITT

>> No.15215745

>>15215666
because people more and more are trying to live more denly packed in major cities. limited space and high demand means high cost. that plus the clinton ease on banking regulation and the way they line up with action of the population lead to an explosion is costs. immigration too, as they move to cities. retarded zoning restrictions also make it more difficult for construction to keep up with demand of new housing in cities, particularly denser housing and decent apartments.

want cheap cost of living? move outside of major cities. live in a smaller town and support political changing like fixing bank regulations and shit.

>> No.15215746

>>15215604
It's simple, they are in current possession of the land/property. and as the legal owner they can do with it as they wish, within the bounds of the law of God and Man.
The question I pose to you is why Their rights (already regulated at a federal, state, county, and township level if you are an American) deserve to be infringed upon, and furthermore be derided for the simple act of making something they own available to you.

>> No.15215750

ITT a bunch of liveathomewithmom neets justify foreign investors buying up all available property, leaving half of them unoccupied, and charging exorbitant prices for rent
Just because they have been so thoroughly brain fucked by libertarian psyops that they refuse to apply any critical thought to the subject.

Your experiences living in a dead shit hole town arent representative of those who live in civilized areas.

So I ask, why do you think its okay for gooks who have never stepped foot out of their chink nation to buy up property of a nation they arent a citizen of?

>> No.15215753

>>15215252
Yeah they have to eat

>> No.15215754

>>15215666
nope no conspiracy here

>> No.15215758

>>15215426
Based

>> No.15215759

>>15215750
>the solution to the problems of globalism is pretending the nation state is relevant
lewl

>> No.15215761

>>15215745
People move to the city to get a job. What are you supposed to do, hitch hike around rural america until some farmer offers you a job?

>> No.15215762

>>15215638
>capitalists and libertarians approve of the government intervention in the economy that has been taking place

>> No.15215764

>>15215746
This is the exact same argument used in defend of Feudalism by the nobility.

>> No.15215765

>>15215750
>charging exorbitant prices for rent
I agree this is bad, but why are you criticizing landlords as a profession rather than focusing on this issue? You can be fine with landlords while raising concern for this issue. Charging exorbitant prices is bad, I agree, but we have to reach a consensus what is fair. I don't see how to do so beyond pricing monthly rent competitively with other apartments, but maybe there can be another impartial governmental body that oversees and corrects such malpractices?

>> No.15215766

>>15215761
Three shifts at mcdonalds a week and live at home with your mother in the house her father owned.

>> No.15215769

>>15215745
Firstly, this is Australia you dumb faggot.
Secondly, that doesn't explain the graph. How are housing prices rising if wages aren't?Where is the money coming from? Hint: it's from over-leveraged "entrepreneurs" who borrow from the bank, outbid you, and then charge you for the privilege of renting there. It's by definition parasitic behavior.
I hope covid makes all of these people bankrupt.

>> No.15215770

>>15215696
This
>>15215740
Worse than an onions wojak

>> No.15215776

>>15215750
>i want to live in big expensive urban centres and nowhere else is civilized.
this is pure entitlement.

here's the truth. there are structural issues with housing right now, but a lot of people complaining are doing so very disingenuously and themselves have absurd bugman standards. if your landlord should be shot i hope to see you faggots next to him like you deserve.

>> No.15215779

>>15215764
feudalism is pretty based though

>> No.15215780

>>15215765
Landlords are the cause of the issue, idiot.
Apart from the FOREIGN INVESTORS there are also hordes of greedy upper class boomer fucks who pushed for stricter zoning laws meaning less construction meaning more (artificial mind you seeinf as half these properties remain emoty by design) demand.

>> No.15215785 [DELETED] 

I don't see the point in arguing against the morality or ethics of landlords, it's an entirely normative discussion that does't have place if we're claiming to discuss economics. It's not like landlords or the people who protect their property rights give a solitary fuck how people feel about them.

That said, landlords are literally the textbook definition of rent-seekers. No serious economist, mainstream (new neoclassical synthesis) or heterodox (like the Austrian school or Marxians) believes that rent-seeking is net-beneficial, in fact the vast majority believe it should be curtailed whenever possible. In addition, rent-seeking is viewed as a key contributor to market inefficiency and income inequality, along other problems.

>15215638
Globalization has not "obliterated the possibilty of being middle class," it has in fact enabled that possibility for many previously dirt-poor regions. The middle class in America has been shrinking, yes, but that can be attributed far more readily to the obscene rise in healthcare costs and the corresponding stagnation in real wages.

>> No.15215788

>>15215779
you would be a serf

>> No.15215794

>>15215788
and?

>> No.15215795

>>15215714
I put forward to you that it is, always has been, and always will be a reasonable rate, if it wasn't it would remain vacant until the price lowered till filled. A free market doesn't allow for anything less.

>> No.15215799

>>15215780
Both Adam Smith and I agree that not all landlords are the cause of this issue. Yes, some landlords are bad and engage in malpractice, but generalizing them all and criticizing the whole profession is retarded.

>> No.15215800

I don't see the point in arguing against the morality or ethics of landlords, it's an entirely normative discussion that doesn't have place if we're claiming to discuss economics. It's not like landlords or the people who protect their property rights give a solitary fuck how people feel about them.

That said, landlords are literally the textbook definition of rent-seekers. No serious economist, mainstream (new neoclassical synthesis) or heterodox (like the Austrian school or Marxians) believes that rent-seeking is net-beneficial, in fact the vast majority believe it should be curtailed whenever possible. In addition, rent-seeking is viewed as a key contributor to market inefficiency and income inequality, along other problems.

>>15215638
Globalization has not "obliterated the possibilty of being middle class," it has in fact enabled that possibility for many previously dirt-poor regions. The middle class in America has been shrinking, yes, but that can be attributed far more readily to the obscene rise in healthcare costs and the corresponding stagnation in real wages.

>> No.15215801

>>15215765
because gommunoids are all smooth brains
>>15215761
>literally no work exists in rural areas or smaller cities.
the real truth is that the work left with the people. homo bugs moved to cities because they liked the hedonistic conveniences.

>> No.15215803

>>15215779
>>15215788
unironically better to be a serf than a wagie

>> No.15215811

>>15215799
Sure, criticizing a profession doesn't make sense, but criticizing rent-seeking behavior is completely valid.

>> No.15215812

>>15215799
>landlord
>profession
top kek brah

>> No.15215814

>be me
>own land, do no real work, amass currency and more land from those who do via my land
>the governmental edifice that enables this is a legitimate form of indirect violence
>workers try to change edifice
>this is an outrageous and illegitimate form of indirect violence, how dare they

>> No.15215816

>>15215812
>>15215811
It's an investment. It can be handled morally, at least as best as possible, or immorally. That specific example you listed I agreed is immoral.

>> No.15215817

>>15215764
yes?
>>15215788
and?

>> No.15215819

>>15215764
Neat, now are you going to answer my question, or just point out similarities in my thoughts to pre-existing ideology?

>> No.15215821

>>15215208
Has anyone ever been so right about everything the way Smith was?

>> No.15215827

>>15215240
Absolutely wrong. Most landlords are criminals who overcharge the shit out of tenants.
There is no reason an apartment in Flyoverville where I live costs 1400 a month

>> No.15215834

>>15215821
Not since smith. No.

>> No.15215840
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15215840

>>15215821

>> No.15215845

>>15215840
Not even on the same level as Smith

>> No.15215851

>>15215827

And yet you consent to pay in what is objectively a consensual transaction, hm...

>>15215834

One of the more amusing parts is the stuff about the window tax, how a house with so many windows gets taxed more.

>> No.15215858

>>15215851
I don't consent to it. It's either get ripped off or be homeless or find someone to let me live with them for cheaper.

>> No.15215864

>>15215801
>homo bugs moved to cities because they liked the hedonistic conveniences.
>The rural subset of less than 5% of Americans is the driving force behind urbanization
Holy fuck you are retarded.

>>15215816
I'm not the guy you were replying to. Also, analyzing economic activity through a lens of morality is a fool's errand. It is material self-interest which drives all economic activity in market-based economies.

>>15215834
Objectively wrong. Keynes and Samuelson were both right about pretty much everything, and their thought has directly helped the average person to a greater degree.

>>15215840
While I don't have a problem with Marx's critical theory, it's widely accepted among people up-to-date with economics that the LTV is heavily outdated as best. Even Marxian economists have been trying to move past it.

>> No.15215866

>>15215858
>or find someone to let me live with them for cheaper.
oh, the indignity

>> No.15215870

>>15215819
The answer was heavily implied, with all the implications that go with feudalism. There's no meaning to legitimacy in such a society so it's nonsensical to defend it by hiding behind legitimacy. You may as well invoke the divine right of kings while you're at it.

>> No.15215884

>>15215795
>A population could never be homeless with empty properties
Think again

>> No.15215888

>>15215800
>but that can be attributed far more readily to the obscene rise in healthcare costs and the corresponding stagnation in real wages.
housing and banking related aspects are related to them too, though not the cause.

landlords to fundamentally fill a perfectly valid role in the economy. the problem come when other aspects either force or encourage them to do so in a harmful way. hardly something unique to housing, if fact is is relevant to any inelastic market based around basic needs. the acceptable role they have exists because they offer a value. that being that not everyone can or would like to incur the risks of buying or building a home for themselves as they don't exactly pop up like magic and them be completely free.

people screaming about landlords are complaining about the symptoms of symptoms and offer nothing to the discussion. price control are a dog shit answer so that's out, and killing your landlords is not gong to set up a situation where things are suddenly free because almost all of the causes of high rent still exist.

>> No.15215899

>>15215864
imagine being so fucking retarded that you believe the american population was almost almost entirely urban. they all congregated on cities you absolute tard.

>> No.15215903

>>15215888
just build more public housing while also doing rent control

>> No.15215912

two posts filled with replies and barely any one bothering so do anything more productive than complain that their rent is to high, zero attempt to analyse why that may be beyond durr landlord bad hurr. socialism and liberalism are both utterly retarded.

>> No.15215915

>>15215864
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emnYMfjYh1Q

>> No.15215920

>>15215903
price controls being retarded is one of the few things that every type of economist agrees are unproductive. its effectively like treating one bruise by making more bruises so that one doesn't particularly hurt. and you're ignoring all of what goes into building specific types or buildings in a given location. zoning, for example.

>> No.15215922

>>15215920
after agrees ", they"

>> No.15215931

>>15215912
>socialism and liberalism are both utterly retarded.
what else is there

>> No.15215943

>>15215776
ah yes ill just go pursure a telecommunications career in a town of 15,000 people

>> No.15215947

>>15215920
On it's own it is bad sure which is why I said do it while building more public housing

>> No.15215948

>>15215899
Nowhere in my post did I write anything about the proportion of any urban population, nor anything about a specific time period. Learn to read, moron.

>>15215888
The housing market is actually very elastic in the long run, and the main argument against landlords is that they do NOT offer a value and act purely as middlemen. The actual value of the housing was "created" by the construction company and is not consumed by the landlords, only the inhabitants. Again, this is the textbook definition of rent-seeking. I'm not talking about literal landlords seeking rent, I'm talking about economic activity that seeks to accumulate wealth without creating new wealth. This is rightly seen as parasitic by economists and laymen alike.

>> No.15215950

>>15215931
for one stop trying to follow ideologies with policy sets concerned with their own internal consistency and how they logically connect to political philosophy and fag nonsense like that rather than practical effectiveness. there a lot of history of other economic policies from all over the world, even some contemporary to those two.

>> No.15215952

>>15215764
So?

>> No.15215954

>>15215943
work a less retarded job

>> No.15215957

>>15215931
>what else is there
Edgy imageboard autodidacts declaring entire ideologies to be retarded?

>> No.15215960

>>15215950
So you are saying become a socialist gotcha

>> No.15215970

>>15215903
In the United States, rent control has always resulted in the exact opposite of what it was supposed to solve. That’s the thing man. Retarded zoning laws are a major issue, but another issue is that city and town meetings are never attended by the people getting fucked by zoning. It’s always old people who don’t want any change

>> No.15215978

>>15215208
Just here to point out he's talking about landlords in a feudal agricultural context. Not modern urban.

>> No.15215987

>>15215947
public hosing is either price controlled or straight up payed for by the government which is ultimately very similar. its a band aid over the hemorrhage at best.
>>15215948
they do offer a value though. not all value is material. they offer the value of icurring the risks and issues of owning themsleves while enabling you to live there. that is valuable to a lot of people, as an example: people who could be moving in the future. the reson prices can get absurd is becausr they are affected by the same economic situations as you and as the market for buying is, and economic or policy circumstances can encourage or force an increase to rent. i know what rent seeking is dumbass.

>> No.15215991

>>15215978
i think some people pointed that out in the last thread and were promptly ignored.

>> No.15216025

>>15215629

Libertarianism is just another utopian religion and ntheir adherents worship the "market" while understand little of economics and less of human behavior, hence why the vast majority of them are poor.

>> No.15216036

>>15215629
>The worst part is they think economics is an actual science and not wild conjecture based on unfalsifiable models which constantly fail to predict the actual behaviour of real economies
you're thinking of marxoids my dude. economics being impossible to predict is a lolbert thing

>> No.15216092

>>15215978
Yes but the same principles apply. Smith also talks about ground rents and house rents in a similar fashion

>> No.15216481

>>15215240
>Most good landlords already charge fair prices
of course, but there aren't many good landlords

>> No.15216504

>>15215208
>Mum who is landlady puts down rent to help people
>They trash the nice flats
>Puts rent back up
>Flats stay nice

Idiots make a rod for their own back, now she just puts rent down if the tenants are good. But its true that lots of kikes in the business screw people.

>> No.15216582

>>15216481
Kek

>> No.15216770

>>15215208
Burger sheep will of course refute this until the banks & real-estate speculators shear them naked of shelter.
>be burger
>own a trailer
>pay fee for lot in the middle of nowhere that's almost as much as rent
>big corporation buys lot property from mom & pop owner.
>jacks up fees to cover their leverage
Why even have zoning laws and building codes if they're written by and for international investors to get paid for nothing? Not all property is theft, but that kind of it is legal theft pure as it ever gets.

>> No.15216792

>>15215305
>the "capitalist" who hasn't even read Adam Smith

lmao what makes you think you're some great understander of capitalist economics? Or that capitalist economics is the best picture of economic reality?

>> No.15216970

>>15216770
Does this really happen?

>> No.15217171

>>15215426
Cringe, landlords don't ask what they deserve because they are greedy insects.

>> No.15217181

>>15215287
>tenet
>>15215331
>tenet
IT'S FUCKING TENANT YOU ILLITERATES

>> No.15217941

>>15217171
t. tenant

>> No.15217951

>>15217941
Thank you.

>> No.15217956

>>15215426
>If you don't wish to pay the rightful owner what they ask then don't rent from them, find somewhere more affordable, get a roomate, rent a room, live under a bridge or in a van down by the river. What you shouldn't do is think your inability to pay is due to anything more then your shit job, with shit pay, suiting a piece of shit like you.
Or squat.

>> No.15218390

>>15216504
How low did she put them

>> No.15219939

Poorfags mad they can't just live in the big hustle and bustle of the big city lmao why don't you apply for the housing projects like all the other niggers if you like communal housing so much

>> No.15220046

>>15215702
lmao seething boy you should just move in with your parents if you're too incompetent to live by yourself

>> No.15220122

>>15215943
>noooo not my telecommunications careerino not my hecking good job
You just want the world to bend over to you, you're not interested in anything else
You feel entitled to just live wherever you want like the world should cater to your feefees and whims, get real

>> No.15220198

>>15215948
Lmao at this guy, that's like saying supermarkets are parasitic because they accumulate the wealth by interfering between the farmer and the consumer

>> No.15220508

>>15215312
You can either choose to be homeless or simply find some other place to live with a more suitable agreement. Not only do you debase yourself by denying the freedom and personal responsibility that comes with acknowledging your agency to make a choice, you're also fundamentally incorrect.

>> No.15220524

>>15218390
Slightly above median. 10% or so above.

>> No.15220536

>>15215648
There are jobs outside the city faggot. It's your fault for falling for the urban meme.

>> No.15220564

Why doesnt the government have a "war for housing", building warehouses for people to pay minimal amounts is better than foreign investors buying land and sucking wealth away

>> No.15220569

>>15220508
I chose to be homeless and had an aggravated dui within a week

>> No.15220580

>>15220564
>foreign investors buying land and sucking wealth away
I don't know if your gov thinks that's true, like I can buy my way into US citizenship by buying somewhere for a cool $1M

>> No.15220589

>>15220580
The 1% of china is much larger than the 1% of America

If the 1% of china all decides to come to america then you have just added millions of millionaires to an area

The only outcome is the native people starve trying to pay $20 for a bottle of water

>> No.15220972

>>15220508
>ignoring economic factors
>"just pull yourself up by your bootstraps"
This is why a revolution is coming. You can ignore that the economy disenfranchises half the population, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring that.

>> No.15220990
File: 46 KB, 492x492, 1537300084713.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15220990

>>15220972
>This is why a revolution is coming
True, but it's not going to be the one you want

>> No.15221037

>>15215208
Can ANYONE explain to me what's so hard about
1) Learn to program
2) Do leetcode for 2 months
Get 120k job
woooooow so difficult woooow a field where there's more jobs than applicants whoa.......

>> No.15221201

>>15220972
Funny thing about slave revolts is that no matter how successful, they always end in failure... Everything is different but nothing has changed.

>> No.15221234

>>15221037
This isn't actually a solution to anything. Our society still requires these severely underpaid professions. You can tell one guy or a forum of guys "hey, this job over here is easy and it pays well," and for those guys that's great, but when we talk about solving issues in society, we need to talk about fixing the system so that we can substantially improve the living conditions of people in other necessary professions. Telling people to just get a different job is not relevant to this discussion.

>> No.15221273

>>15221234
I understand what you're saying, but my advice and your concern aren't mutually exclusive. Every individual in this thread can very well follow my advice, and we can try to level the playing field during that.
Most of these underpaid professions are temporary-friendly too - people are always going to need part-time or low-skilled jobs while training for higher tiered ones. Even if everyone follows my advice, the jobs won't just go away.

>> No.15221396

>>15215799
Not all landlords are the cause, but most are, and all should be punished for it.

>> No.15221446

>>15215987
Their job could be easily done by a realtor, or an online aggregator. Most places that rent require the renter to pick up the bills and then skip out on maintenance to the point that a renter has to take them to court to get a water heater fixed.

>> No.15221460

>>15221201
Yeah, but at least we'll get to kill some landlords.

>> No.15221491

>>15215208
>2020
>being a rent cuck
Buy private property nigger.

>> No.15221748

>>15221396
Kys, commie subhuman.

>> No.15222327

>>15221201
>Funny thing about slave revolts is that no matter how successful, they always end in failure...
The French Revolution would say otherwise. Plus the Americans are armed with guns which makes it easier

>> No.15222346

>>15221491
>"why don't the poor just buy more money?"

>> No.15222349

>>15222327
>French Revolution
>Slave revolt
You know what class it was who operated the guillotines, right? It werent proles, nor were it slaves.

>> No.15222381

>>15221460
that's great bro, but it's the 28th today hope you have your wagecuck money ready :)

>> No.15222440
File: 33 KB, 600x600, cutie.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15222440

why do rentcucks have to pay rent but then let their landlords live in their heads rent free lmao

>> No.15222468 [DELETED] 

>>15215208
>defend it
Why? I don't have any morals in that regard. As long as I have food, all is good to me. I don't care that you starve.
>t. gonna inherhit multiple rentals, feelsgoodman.

>> No.15222609

>>15215803
this. Imagine working the land with your own hands then catching salmon from an unpolluted river for dinner as part of a caring community.

>> No.15222647

>>15222609
bro feudal times were not like adventure time

>> No.15222759

>>15222647
what were they like then

>> No.15222833

>>15215858
Or move? Why not move?

I shouldn't have to move away because the landlord wants to squeeze the area for profit. However if the area is becoming more expensive because all the landlords are able to find willing buyers then isn't that just natural?

>> No.15222876
File: 56 KB, 777x489, 32fbd1787b826faa7095e39b3ea0d80ec2fc1e15e801fc862c47585d2897dbf6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15222876

>>15220990
If you're anti-capital you're pro-me

>> No.15222880

>>15215696
>food analogies
>comparing an elastic vs a non-elastic asset
Kill yourself.

>> No.15223265

>>15222647
Marginally above subsistence

>> No.15223308

>>15221037
Asking people to work for a living is literally slavery and you’re worse than hitler for suggesting it

>> No.15223340

The landlord bought the house why shouldnt he be allowed to rent it?

>> No.15223348

>>15223340
land shouldn't be a commodity

>> No.15223391

>>15215208
>How can landlords defend this behavior?
Might Makes Right

>> No.15223420

Everyone saying feudal life is better, come live in my shed in the back yard and tend to my garden and house, I'll give you bread crusts and tap water to serve me as your lord

>> No.15223436

Another thread with another severe case of problems with semantics. What they call "Libertarians" I call "economic fundamentalists" who give a bad name to Libertarians who believe in both positive AND negative liberty.

>> No.15223437

>>15223420
they didnt eat just bread and water though

>> No.15223442

>>15223437
You'll eat what your feudal lord leaves for you to eat

>> No.15223459

>>15215665
b-b-b-based

>> No.15223506

>>15223420
>>15223442
t. watched a cartoon about the Middle Ages once

>> No.15223537

>>15223391
Landlords don’t have the might though

>> No.15223545

>>15222349
The intelligentsia will always find a way to co-opt the movement. But french revolution started when the proles started storming buildings

>> No.15223690

>>15223537
They have the might of the government supporting them.

>> No.15223894

>>15223506
This kind of talk back will result in beatings, as is historically my right as feudal lord

>> No.15223932

>>15215637
because in a large city even the less desirable neighborhoods have building priced in the millions. single family homes in the outer buroughs of new york that were built for working class people 60 years ago now sell for $1.8 million. good luck getting a toe hold with those prices

>> No.15223936

>>15223894
well memed

>> No.15223943

>>15215800
high paying manufacturing jobs move from america to shithole countries and magically become low paying jobs. the americans who had those jobs now have to work in the service industries for a fraction of what they used to earn. how is this not killing the middle class?

>> No.15223957

>>15215851
>you consent to pay
vagrancy laws give you no choice smartass

>> No.15223983

>>15222349
MEPHISTOPHELES: Oh! Enough! And keep all the fight,
Of tyranny and slavery, out of sight.
It bores me: they’re scarce done when
They start the whole thing over again: And no one sees:
they’re being re-aligned, By Asmodeus, who works them from behind.
They clash, it’s said, for Freedom’s right:
Seen rightly, slave with slave is all the fight.

>> No.15223996

>>15223308
>You're worse than hitler!!
Yes.

>> No.15224004

>>15215950
based and dengpilled

>> No.15224013

>>15216036
bullshit their first response to everything is "somebody doesn't understand basic economics lol"

>> No.15224022

>>15219939
the waiting lists are too long and favor the disabled and battered women

>> No.15224048

>>15221273
if everyone followed your advice coding jobs would pay minimum wage, which of course is the ultimate goal. people like yourself are useful idiots

>> No.15224135

>>15218390
400 pounds a month, up to 700 a month.

>> No.15225474

>this thread
and then people complain that there are literal commies out there
whole thread reads like some caricature of bloodthirsty capitalism

>> No.15225560

>>15224048
>b-but if I get a high paying job someone later down the line might only be able to get a lower paying job maybe
weird cope, poorfag

>> No.15225572

>>15224013
their idea of “basic economics” is supply and demand (which they only use as a magical incantation to ward off scary ideas) and autstianism (which is literally not predictive by design)

>> No.15225579

>>15225572
>autstianism
meant austrianism* but this is pretty close to autistianism which I think also fits

>> No.15225595

>>15225560
???
this is basics of society
someone has to do shitty jobs and these people need to somehow survive too

>> No.15225740

>>15224048
lmao...
this is why you're poor and I'm not.
cope harder

>> No.15225790
File: 1.29 MB, 498x359, 1586252965068.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15225790

"In reality high profits tend much more to raise the price of work than high wages. If in the linen manufacture, for example, the wages of the different working people, the flax-dressers, the spinners, the weavers, etc., should, all of them, be advanced twopence a day; it would be necessary to heighten the price of a piece of linen only by a number of twopences equal to the number of people that had been employed about it, multiplied by the number of days during which they had been so employed. That part of the price of the commodity which resolved itself into wages would, through all the different stages of the manufacture, rise only in arithmetical proportion to this rise of wages. But if the profits of all the different employers of those working people should be raised five per cent, that part of the price of the commodity which resolved itself into profit would, through all the different stages of the manufacture, rise in geometrical proportion to this rise of profit. The employer of the flaxdressers would in selling his flax require an additional five per cent upon the whole value of the materials and wages which he advanced to his workmen. The employer of the spinners would require an additional five per cent both upon the advanced price of the flax and upon the wages of the spinners. And the employer of the weavers would require a like five per cent both upon the advanced price of the linen yarn and upon the wages of the weavers. In raising the price of commodities the rise of wages operates in the same manner as simple interest does in the accumulation of debt. The rise of profit operates like compound interest. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
(End of Book I Chapter 9)

Can someone explain how this works to me? Is it still applicable today? Why does a rise in profits act like compound interest?

>> No.15225800

>>15225790
>In raising the price of commodities the rise of wages operates in the same manner as simple interest does in the accumulation of debt. The rise of profit operates like compound interest. Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people

Key part of the quote for a TLDR

>> No.15226380

>>15225790
Say there were 5 different stages of laborer in the cultivation, harvesting, and production of a good. Say each gets a raise of 1 dollar per 1 unit of good produced. This translates in a flat rate across the 5 different stages of production to amount to a 5 dollars increase in price. A rise in the profit margins of 5% would compound, where in at each step of the process it would be an added 5% of the previous increased 5% and thus, compound. Each person will want to get their beak wet in terms of profit, and will demand an equivalent rise in profits as others, or they will simply choose to employ their capital elsewhere.

As for modern day, the wealth of our nation is being monopolized by an increasingly small set of the ultra wealthy through the manipulation of the balance of profits and labor. Smith would be absolutely horrified by the current state of affairs

>> No.15226413

>>15226380
>A rise in the profit margins of 5% would compound, where in at each step of the process it would be an added 5% of the previous increased 5% and thus, compound.
But this is what I don't get, why each step of the process adds 5%, 5% of what?

>> No.15226440

>>15226413
Profit is by definition the difference between the amount spent and the amount earned. This equals a percentage of the stock invested. If I invest $100 in flax for my business (simplifying all costs for the sake of clarity) and sell the spun flax for $105 dollars, I've made %5 profit on my investment. This means the person who buys at $105, if he wished to make %5 as well would have to sell at $110.25

>> No.15226452

>>15225790
Jesus Christ this wall of text could be really simply replaced by three lines of equations.

>> No.15226458

>>15226452
post them then

>> No.15226566

>>15223391
I disagree. It just makes, and it just claims.

>> No.15226574

>>15226380
>As for modern day, the wealth of our nation is being monopolized by an increasingly small set of the ultra wealthy through the manipulation of the balance of profits and labor.
You think it's just that? It's the whole grid that's rotten, from FED all the way down.

>> No.15226731

>>15226574
I agree it's more than just that

>> No.15227064

>>15226452
What are they then? You obviously don’t know them

>> No.15227367

>>15224022
Kek

>> No.15227419

>>15222327
>>15223545
erm bro the french revolution was a bourgoeis one

>> No.15227970

>>15223545
No, the French revolution started with bourgeois Enlightenment liberals defying the King in what was essentially an extremely important session of Parliament.

>> No.15228003

>>15223420
Unironically that would be great

>> No.15228053

>>15223943
Anon, I understand that you hear this rhetoric all the time, but it's simply not true. American middle class incomes have not fallen, they have stagnated. This stagnation - as in, a slowdown in the growth of real (adjusted for inflation) wages - began in the 70s, and as I said is far more accurately attributed to ballooning healthcare costs, not the outsourcing and/or automation of manufacturing jobs.

Additionally, in reality, these "high paying manufacturing jobs" that ignorant people love to rave about 1. were not as high-paying as you believe and 2. at their max employment represented less than 5% of the labor force.

>> No.15228083

>>15215208
Tenants lie though.

>> No.15228137

>>15228053
> I said is far more accurately attributed to ballooning healthcare costs, not the outsourcing and/or automation of manufacturing jobs.

Outsourcing jobs, in general -- not just manufacturing --, AND artificially ballooning the labor market via H1 visas and illegal immigration have an impact on wages.

Healthcare costs in the event of it being provided by the employer might affect wages of that company. Labor competition in the marketplace is a larger factor; basic supply and demand.

>> No.15228170

in my country throughout the 20th century the big cities had strict rent controls and landlords couldn't evict tenants very easily, sometimes not at all
the result? all housing was decrepit because there was no incentive to build anything
we are still hurting for it, our capital is in ruins pretty much

>> No.15228220

>>15215753
Then they should work, like an actual job.

>> No.15228256

>>15228170
Which is why we need to build more public housing with rent control in place

>> No.15228268

Communists shouldn't have a right to live.

>> No.15228275

>>15228256
Rent control doesn't work you retarded imbecile.

>> No.15228278

>>15228268
Sorry, buddy; it's either hell or communism.

>> No.15228281

>>15228256
public housing is even more decrepit lmao

>> No.15228376

>>15228137
>h1 visas
A population of ~1 million, ~0.6% of the labor force, does not have a particularly large impact on wages, but that doesn't really matter because 1. H1b jobs are specialized, skilled labor, a sector which is mostly part of the upper-middle class, which has experienced more real wage growth than the rest of the middle class and 2. skilled immigration has a negligible impact on the wages of native skilled workers because of the high demand for these jobs.

>illegal immigration
The vast, VAST majority of illegal immigrants work low-skilled jobs and are definitively not a part of the middle-class. While it is empirically obvious that illegal immigration hurts the wages of low-skilled workers, the effect is limited (something like a ~5% decrease in wage per 10% increase in supply of labor) and becomes even weaker as jobs require more skill/education. Immigration simply does not have a large enough effect to account for the immense disconnect between productivity growth and real wage growth for the middle class.

>Healthcare costs in the event of it being provided by the employer might affect wages of that company
Yes, this is the case for the majority of Americans. Around 55%, in fact.

>Labor competition in the marketplace is a larger factor; basic supply and demand.
Are you fucking serious? Surely you don't think you can boil down one of the most widely-discussed economic problems of modern America into "basic supply and demand?"

Anyway, if you or anyone else care to learn about this issue and the viewpoints of actual economists, I highly recommend this article:
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2008/where-has-all-the-income-gone

>> No.15228494

Oi, it’s not landlords you should have a problem with- it’s banks. They literally make their money by doing nothing but collecting interest. The reason rent is high is because mortgages are expensive and the landlord needs to pay it. The reason houses are so expensive is because the bank will give you three mortgages as long as you’re paying them with rental income.

Here’s a fun fact I learned from being a Realtor: the bank will offer you larger and larger lines of credit and make you think this is great, but they won’t tell you that when you go to apply for a mortgage they use that line of credit against you. Once income and bills are factored, they then factor in the payments you would have to make if you maxed your line of credit because presumably you could do so once your mortgage is solidified and then be unable to make the mortgage payments. Credit is a fucking scam and we should abolish it already. If people can’t live without being on credit, then obviously there needs to be reforms.

Another fun fact, did you know it is haram to accrue interest? In Muslim society you are not allowed to gain profit from money lending because Allah declared it immoral. There’s also such a thing as a “halal mortgage”. Look it up if you’re interested.

>> No.15228523

>>15228494
>Another fun fact, did you know it is haram to accrue interest?
It used to be considered an abomination in European Christianity too.

>> No.15228877

>>15216481
>of course, but there aren't any good landlords

>> No.15228892

>>15228494
Yeah man, the Koran is the word of God, a very wise text.

Usury was also termed illegal by the commandments, but that didn't stop the Jews. Far be it from modern Jews to practice anything in the god damn Tanakh, fucking Satanists is what they are these days.

>> No.15228906

>>15221037
>more jobs than applicants whoa
I'm about to graduate with a cs degree from one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the world. I have friends with masters degrees in cs who were supposed to work at a company in silicon valley, which I won't mention, but I really doubt they're going to since that company is currently laying people off. My prospects for employment are basically nonexistent right now because I am graduating into one of the worst economies the United States has ever seen

>> No.15228915

>>15228494
>The reason rent is high is because mortgages are expensive and the landlord needs to pay it.
I have no mortgage, am a rentier, so I can categorically tell you that the reason my rent is high has nothing to do with my need to pay interest on anything like that. I don't see the point in investing only in real estate through mortgages either, then you're betting on your house going up in value. Plus you get shit rates for buy to let mortgages.

>> No.15228925

>>15228906
It was like that 12 years ago too. There are still jobs about, like it's a good enough area to be in, but I know a lot of people who have been laid off.

>> No.15229037

>>15216481
My favorite utter landlord moment was when I got the contract from him and then he couldn't explain it to me at all. I asked because if a landlord can't explain his own contract in detail, don't fucking rent from him. Because they won't admit that. They'll lie.

So I asked about making an accommodation wrt the term of the lease, I had how long I was gonna be there for the job and it wasn't a year and I needed to know if I should keep shopping around for the weird term on the lease. So I asked: Can I adjust the term of the lease? He said yes, which was weird, so I kept hounding him about it because the terms written down said no. He kept saying yes. I didn't even call back eventually.

>> No.15229216

Profit is amoral. Even I don't hate landlords per se, but I understand that their job requires them to screw me constantly and that to have a functional relationship with them I have to treat them as both malicious and incompetent- Anything else will result in me paying higher for rent or them keeping my security deposit when I should get it back by their own terms.

The thing about all of it is that individual landlords like >>15216504's mum is that they might actually be nice people. But there's no way for me to figure out in advance which landlords are good and which ones are going to act nice to me on the phone and then try to scam me repeatedly. Just by their class, they have the ability to scam me.

>>15215629
>>15216036
Those aren't incompatible bc let's be real the majority of libertarians don't read. I know one guy who's a very loud libertarian and when I asked him what he thought of Mises and Hayek he asked me who they were. So it's possible for them to simultaneously believe the EMH and also !EMH because they aren't interested in building a coherent ideology.

>>15215638
It's not just globalization, that's just a consequence of shipping industries working the way they do and no amount of intervention would reduce the competitive advantage to capitalists of that. This is a multifaceted and very complicated issue because land is hard to develop.

>>15215864
>While I don't have a problem with Marx's critical theory, it's widely accepted among people up-to-date with economics that the LTV is heavily outdated as best
Yeah. LTV is awkward in a lot of ways. The historical framework is the best part of Marxism, but his economics are 200 years out of date. But like they're 200 years old ofc they're 200 years out of date, to throw away all the good work we've had since would be stupid. We can still be interested in advancing past class society without subscribing to ideas that don't make predictions. Clinging to ideas like that makes Marx spin in his grave.

>> No.15229698

>>15229216
I'm not any of the people you replied to
I am a believer of free trade and individual freedom but lately I've been drawn to authors who criticize capitalism with arguments I completely agree with
I haven't read Marx yet but from other books I've read I gathered that Marx thought communism was the consummation and the ultimate form of capitalism, as in capitalism in its development creates the conditions for it's own negation which will emerge as some form of communism
What I don't understand is how the need to conjure forced rebellions fit into all of this. It seems to me capitalism itself will bring forth communism much easier than any power hungry elite fighting for the "people" will

>> No.15230192

>>15228170
Johannesburg? South Africa?

>> No.15230786

>>15229698
>I am a believer of... individual freedom
I'd encourage you to take a look at texts that specifically critique and try to define "freedom". It turns out to be hard to do precisely.
>I haven't read Marx yet
Luckily Marx does this some. I understand that Marx is pretty fucking boring to sit down and read though, it's easier to start with secondary sources (lectures, essays, etc) and then work your way through Marx himself at your leisure.

>capitalism in its development creates the conditions for it's own negation which will emerge as some form of communism
More or less true, although Marx posits a transition under socialism that will involve a state. Lenin revised the understanding of the state as a body by which one class exerts power over another with a concept called the dictatorship of the proletariat, whereby the proletariat will control the bourgeoisie until such time as the two classes are actually abolished. This has been criticized pretty heavily, especially after Perestroika.

>It seems to me capitalism itself will bring forth communism much easier than any power hungry elite fighting for the "people" will
This is also an issue of considerable debate. What "the revolution" will be (or if it will look anything like the French and Russian ones), who will run it, etc are all questions without easy answers. Feudalism certainly wasn't dismantled by capitalism overnight, so imo it's unlikely that we'll be able to mark a single day where before that day there was capitalism and after there was socialism. It may be a complicated situation that could only become truly apparent after the fact. Then again, 7 months ago almost none of us thought there would be a pandemic that destroyed the economies of several powerful nations and left others more or less untouched, so who knows?

TL;DR if you're considering reading Marx, definitely do. Starting with recorded lectures and essays might help.

>> No.15230887

>>15230192
lisbon, portugal

>> No.15230906

>>15215208
not sure if I understood the quote, but the profits for lending out the property is already reflected in the price the landolrd bought the property for, according to microeconomic theory. Market prices of a restaurant building reflects the restaurant market in that area, if expected profits pf running a restaurant rises, then prospective restaurant businesses will bid against eachother and lift the rent.

>> No.15230922

>>15230786
>who will run it, etc are all questions without easy answers
As we've seen it's whoever has enough outside foreign influence, firearms, and dedicated fanatics.

>> No.15230931

>>15230906
at attractive restaurant spots, beeer prices tend to be higher, but it doesnt result in higher margins for the restaurants, it is because the rent is higher they need to charge higher prices.

an investor can buy the property and if the potential rent he can gain increases, the price of the property rises too

>> No.15230936

>>15230786
based
in the society of the spectacle debord lightly touches on how the bourgeoisie defeated the feudal lords as the rising class in the industrial revolution, through constructive means that quite literally outperformed the feudal lords in every aspect, and it made me wonder what kind of revolution we will see in the future
the communists have historically been in favor of disruptive/revolutionary behavior, but I tend to believe the real path to the worker as an independent being is through the manipulation of capitalist means

>> No.15230943

>>15229698
Read Marx but avoid the people who responded to you. They're mostly cultists with no aspirations and very little contribution to anything actual beneficial. Mostly they sit in academia and hyper critique every aspect of european society, identity (e.g. Marxists in the UK want to ban the term Anglo-Saxon for example, totally ridiculous by many measures). Remember that most of what Marx deals with can't even really be applied meaningfully anymore considering most countries are post-industrial to begin with. Anyway these guys read Marx and worship Marx as a religious figure. Just be wary, remember to keep your head.

>> No.15230946

>>15223348
read about the tragedy of commons

>> No.15230952

>>15230936
>the worker as an independent being
Impossible. The entire concept of worker is a dependent concept because it will rely on organization and horizontal organization in large scale operations is a disaster. There is a reason why even "successful" Communist states like Vietnam had to cancel their communal industrial endeavors because they were crippling peoples ability to produce.

>> No.15230975
File: 48 KB, 400x500, med_1551485084_00007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15230975

>>15229698
capitalizm is not perfect but it is still the best solution we have. the alternatives are "even worse". Give me some arguments against capitalism so we can discuss.

>> No.15230987

>>15230975
Why are you falling for false dichotomy to begin with? Marx created the concept "capitalism" in order to pidgeonhole people who were for a free market. That's why they can make sweeping generalizations rapidly without having to deal with reality of free trade and independent living.

>> No.15231019

>>15230987
I know about Marx's capitalism. I'm a foreigner and don't really understand what you're saying

>> No.15231032

>>15231019
btw I'm talking about a market economy where capitalists own capital as private property

>> No.15231066

>>15231019
>>15231032
so you understand what capital is but how can this be logically applied to seriously call the whole system "capitalism" why owning assets to enhance value was done even in primitive economies. my point anon is that its a false dichotomy designed to limit your perspective. Marxists are revolutionaries first and foremost, they are not interested in anything beyond achieving their group ends. This is why they are constantly agitating against any other form of expression or identity that isn't Marxist in character. They want to destroy them. That being said, I reject the entire notion that "capitalism" is even an accurate term to describe, for example, the modern economic situation in the US. Marx was writing during a time of high industry when the connection between product, worker, commodity, owner, etc were very easy to define. It's no longer become this easy. Even in Marxist technics it's still essentially a dice roll because Marxists will always tell you "well, predicting how [x] will look like cannot be done..." so more or less they are just confessing that they actually are completely unsure what the end goal of their objective will even look like. They throw out some vague theories and tell you to "read theory" but where does that really land them beyond creating their own theories like "Anglo-saxon should be banned" etc? Don't fall into their false dichotomy anon. It was designed to trap you more or less.

>> No.15231126

>>15231066
ey man fuck it I'm already bored reading the first sentence

>> No.15231131

>>15231126
kek fair enough mate

>> No.15231134

is there literature about how a post-revolution marxist world would be like? the whole economical aspect of it?
marxists have a plethora of theory and ways to go to revolution, but they don't seem to have much on what they actually expect the world to be after that

>> No.15231139

>>15231126
I was expecting actual arguments against a market economy, not a dictionary

>> No.15231172

>>15231134
1984

>> No.15231265

>>15215765
Being a landlord is not a profession.