Books about Sex being the same as Gender

[Anonymous No.15206217]

I need a book on this subject. Twitter says it is the same, but 4chan says it isn't. Every side pretty much just says "muh science" and pastes some rando science journal that no one cares about.

What book settles this debate for real?

[Anonymous No.15206242]

Mmm boys in dresses

[Anonymous No.15206264]

>>15206217
There is no answer because the entire argument is just two groups of idiots arguing about the definition of gender.

If you define gender as being your inherent biological traits then it's the same.

If you define it as what you personally identify as then it's not the same.

If you really want a book to resolve it just read a fucking dictionary with a definition you like.

[Anonymous No.15206274]

>>15206217
Read Paul Cockshott's scholarly articles on the subject.

https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/12/13/genders-or-sex-stereotypes-part-2/amp/

> In a material analysis, the sexed body is vital to the reproduction of life and, therefore, society. As Engels wrote in 1890, ‘According to the materialistic conception of history, the production and reproduction of real life constitutes in the last instance the determining factor of history. Neither Marx nor I ever maintained more.’ Engels, [] The ‘reproduction of real life’ demands that we recognize the universal categories of men and women, and evaluate how the individuals within these social groups are socialized to fulfill the roles that a given society demands of them.

[Anonymous No.15206281]

>>15206264
>If you define gender as being your inherent biological traits then it's the same.
>If you define it as what you personally identify as then it's not the same.
If you're speaking of social groups, sure. If you're speaking of people researching and publishing reports, they're separate.

>If you really want a book to resolve it just read a fucking dictionary with a definition you like.
Dictionaries document how society uses words. You'll get both.

[Anonymous No.15206298]

>>15206281
1/2: Adding how Webster's Dictionary addressed this:

Are gender and sex the same? Usage Guide
Noun

The words sex and gender have a long and intertwined history. In the 15th century gender expanded from its use as a term for a grammatical subclass to join sex in referring to either of the two primary biological forms of a species, a meaning sex has had since the 14th century; phrases like "the male sex" and "the female gender" are both grounded in uses established for more than five centuries. In the 20th century sex and gender each acquired new uses. Sex developed its "sexual intercourse" meaning in the early part of the century (now its more common meaning), and a few decades later gender gained a meaning referring to the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex, as in "gender roles." Later in the century, gender also came to have application in two closely related compound terms: gender identity refers to a person's internal sense of being male, female, some combination of male and female, or neither male nor female; gender expression refers to the physical and behavioral manifestations of one's gender identity. By the end of the century gender by itself was being used as a synonym of gender identity. Among those who study gender and sexuality, a clear delineation between sex and gender is typically prescribed, with sex as the preferred term for biological forms, and gender limited to its meanings involving behavioral, cultural, and psychological traits. In this dichotomy, the terms male and female relate only to biological forms (sex), while the terms masculine/masculinity, feminine/femininity, woman/girl, and man/boy relate only to psychological and sociocultural traits (gender). This delineation also tends to be observed in technical and medical contexts, with the term sex referring to biological forms in such phrases as sex hormones, sex organs, and biological sex. But in nonmedical and nontechnical contexts, there is no clear delineation, and the status of the words remains complicated. Often when comparisons explicitly between male and female people are made, we see the term gender employed, with that term dominating in such collocations as gender differences, gender gap, gender equality, gender bias, and gender relations. It is likely that gender is applied in such contexts because of its psychological and sociocultural meanings, the word's duality making it dually useful. The fact remains that it is often applied in such cases against the prescribed use. Usage of sex and gender is by no means settled. For example, while discrimination was far more often paired with sex from the 1960s through the 20th century and into the 21st, the phrase gender discrimination has been steadily increasing in use since the 1980s and is on track to become the dominant collocation.

[Anonymous No.15206300]

>>15206298
Currently both terms are sometimes employed with their intended synonymy made explicit: sex/gender discrimination, gender (sex) discrimination.

[Anonymous No.15206306]

>>15206217
Gender is just a word, historically it was used in the context as synonymous with sex. The problem with a lot of post modern debates is they think words dictate reality, they think that music for example was created with a definition and we have been trying to make stuff that fit that definition, so if you are able to take something like 4 33 and fit it into the definition voila I DISCOVERED A NEW FORM OF MUSIC I HAVE CHANGED REALITY!!!
No, because music is just a word we have traditionally used to refer to something in our life, historically it was the practise of instruments and singing, you using that word to refer to something that historically is inappropriate does not change reality it just means you are calling something by a word, silence is still not what we traditionally refer to as music.

Anyone sorry for going off topic but it relates to gender and sex. Gender is just a word we use to refer to the sexes historically, its traditionally used a bit flexibly than the word sex, for example when referring to objects like boats as female. But the point is if post modern stretch these words to their max so they can refer whatever they want by whatever words they want, good for them but they look silly because all they are doing is calling stuff by names they're not changing reality, and they're using words that are inappropriate from historical practise, so they are just making it awkward for other people.

Tldr: its a pretentious debate by people who have nothing better to do and want to feel smart or want to validate certain mental illnesses.

[Anonymous No.15206337]

>>15206306
This argument just boils down to being mad that the definitions of words shift over time. Which they do. If enough people think that Gender refers to your self identified identity, then that's just gonna be the new definition of the word.

If a new term, or heck just self-identified gender, was used over the phenomenon of people identifying their gender as something that is different from their biological sex, would you still argue against said word?

[Anonymous No.15206345]

>>15206217
They're objectively different things though. Sex is biological, and gender is a social construct. You don't have to think trans people are valid to recognize this. When you're talking about sex, you're talking about the physical body. When you're talking about gender, you're talking about social norms.

[Anonymous No.15206357]

>>15206345
That's an interesting take. That gender isn't about personal identity but about what roles you fill in society.

[Anonymous No.15206368]

>>15206345
gender and sex were the same thing until jews said they weren't in the 50s.

[Anonymous No.15206377]

>>15206368
How about you get an actual argument instead of just screaming about the jews

[Anonymous No.15206380]

>>15206377
that is an argument. go research the history of "gender."

[Anonymous No.15206381]

look up a biology textbook or something about chromosomes.

[Anonymous No.15206387]

can someone tell me what the fuck "trans rights are human rights" actually means

[Anonymous No.15206407]

>>15206381
The problem with using chromosomes is that some diseases like Androgen insensitivity syndrome lead to very strange things like people who have looked female since birth but actually have a Y chromosome.

[Anonymous No.15206417]

>It's another recommend me books I'll never read that validate my thoughts thread

[Anonymous No.15206427]

>>15206387
it means "pay attention to me"

[Anonymous No.15206493]

>>15206337
I dont care lol I'm not mad I just see it as idiotic and a pretentious debate, your post also reeks of "you just are mad about the changing times, look at me I'm ahead and advanced" no you're probably just another pretentious idiot but whatever.
>If enough people think that Gender refers to your self identified identity, then that's just gonna be the new definition of the word.
Maybe in some circles but people "identifying" like this are just too rare to change the usage in everyday contexts.

>If a new term, or heck just self-identified gender, was used over the phenomenon of people identifying their gender as something that is different from their biological sex, would you still argue against said word?
What do you mean exactly? People can call themselves by whatever words they want if their goal is too confuse others, "hahaha you use male to refer to a human with a penis but I'm using it to refer to something completely different" ok good for you but you're still what I was using male to refer to. The question should be why someone wants to call themselves by these words, probably mental illnesses, or low intelligence and brainwashed by a media source or just attention seeking or delusion.

[Anonymous No.15206495]

>>15206380
It's not a serious argument just because you claim it. It ignores just about everything to do with the subject.

[Anonymous No.15206501]

You are either male or female according to your chromosomes.
There is no element of choice, period.
Stop complicating thing.

[Anonymous No.15206513]

>>15206407
>this 1 in a 100 million anomaly should dictate the consensus on this issue
Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.15206602]

>>15206493
Wow anon it must be real easy to win arguments when everyone who disagrees with you is a brainwashed idiot. Truly your intellect towers above the brainwashed masses.

[Anonymous No.15206638]

>>15206602
You sound like a dumb sheep with no independent thoughts.

[Anonymous No.15206748]

>>15206217
for most of history they were synonymous. but it was normal to use the term 'sex' as a category. then jew tranny activists decided to enforce the notion that one's gender was distinct from one's biological sex, allowing them to be whatever they claimed. but in drawing attention to the biological reality they sought to negate, this distinction in itself became problematic. their solution, after all of this? say 'gender' when you mean 'sex'.

[Anonymous No.15206762]

>>15206306
>The problem with a lot of post modern debates is they think words dictate reality
This is literally the opposite of postmodern thought. Postmodernism as it relates to linguistics says that words should be (and unavoidably are) free from inherent meaning and must be accompanied by the appropriate context to be understood whatsoever. What this means for contemporary writing is that one should feel free to use language however one sees fit, but recognize that any given text is inextricably linked to its associated culture moreso than any objective meaning

Anyways like other anons have replied, the synonymity of sex/gender varies throughout history but associating “gender” with the concept of a “group” has been the primary use of the word up until relatively recently. Contemporary usage is returning to that historical definition.

Sex is used to identify all manner of creatures, so there isn’t a need to define it or redefine it in this context

[Anonymous No.15206769]

>>15206337
the word 'gay' used to mean homosexual but now it means 'retarded stuff that sucks'. your post is gay

[Anonymous No.15206782]

>>15206217
Gender Trouble by Judith Butler doesn't address this practically non-existent debate you speak of, but it does offer a comprehensive explanation behind the idea of gender-as-expression and pissed off a fair number of feminists upon its release

[Anonymous No.15206873]

>>15206762
Fucking hell kys, you pretentious faggot

[Anonymous No.15206897]

>>15206873
seethe/cope/dilate

[Anonymous No.15206921]

>>15206381
Actually the most basic distinction between male and female is which gametes they produce. If you produce the smaller gamete you're male, if the larger you're female.

[Anonymous No.15206953]

>>15206306
But they are changing realty. Or rather, they're changing people's perception of reality as well as he social consensus on what constitutes reality. Language is the scaffolding of thought, and by twisting and stretching the meaning of common language in this way, they can greatly manipulate the ways in which people structure, conceptualize and model reality.

In this instance, gender being presented as something fundemantally separate from the essential characteristics of sex, and rendering it down to a non-essential designation of arbitrary self or social identification.

Of course, the benefits of this to the respective interests involved in this subversive project is that, in the minds of those who use this definition of gender in their conceptualization of reality, the identities of trans/nonbinary/gender-non-conformists people would be seen as entirely legitimate as gender would no longer be proscrictively coupled to sexual characteristics. A mtf tranny for instance, could be cinsidered just as much a woman as someone who is biologically female. How they perceive reality would change with their understanding of language.

Post moderns hate essential identities. Essential identities are fascistic in their minds, so they shift definitions and reduce everything down to an arbitrary substrate which is then malleable. This is why I'm always so insistent that people should never let radical leftists be the gatekeepers of language.

[Anonymous No.15206960]

the people who say its the same now are the exact same people who coined the idea that its different, only now its being used against them so now they its the same

[Anonymous No.15206995]

>>15206960
Who?

[Anonymous No.15207084]

>complains about effeminate males
>provides examples of the ideal masculine male
>yells that GENDER AND SEX are the same!
How very contradictory.

[Anonymous No.15207123]

[Anonymous No.15207258]

>>15206995
the general crowd of pro tranny freaks. first they justified their ways by saying something along the lines of "he's a girl because gender is a social construct and can be expressed any way you want, biological sex is a completely different thing" then eventually people started side stepping that by saying "oh well sure, he will never be a real biological woman and will always man though, as far as biological sex goes of course :^)" and now the same sick people who started this are beginning to claim that sex and gender are once again the same thing, in this case unifying it under their definition of gender, in order to avoid that line of thought because it still leaves a divide between who is and isn't a real man/woman, so into the fire reality goes to fuel their feel good sentiment

[Anonymous No.15207401]

>>15206217

I think you should start by asking yourself why the reproductive mechanism looks the way it does, and then you can begin to understand why sex is something, and gender isn't anything.

[Anonymous No.15207423]

>>15206281
>If you're speaking of people researching and publishing reports, they're separate.
There's nothing to "research." The idea of people having an attribute of their existence known as "gender," which is determined by their will and not their biological sex, is just made-up.

[Anonymous No.15207446]

>>15207258
As with all progressive projects, there is no actual ideology, there is only a goal. The goal in this case is the normalization of "transgenderism"; the theory behind it is whatever they need to say at a given time in order to browbeat people into submission.

[Anonymous No.15207481]

>>15206495
its not like those people were critiquing in good faith in the first place so why bother?

[Anonymous No.15207515]

>>15206217
All who are confused on the subject should look into SEX & CHARACTER by Otto Weininger.

It's probably a certain conflation that has confused you, OP. In reality, it is being made so that we can no longer talk about 'men and women' but instead have to talk about everybody as 'people' because legally a 'person' is a corporate entity, just the title applied to you by the legal system so that it can deal with 'you' through legislation and not as a flesh-and-blood human being as is a man or a woman who is subject only to common law or 'natural law'.

[Anonymous No.15207555]

>>15206217
Read Why Gender matters by Leonard Sax, it shows how gender are linked to biology but also the subtilities of it. What are the mains point that define a male and a female and their behaviors and why the exceptions exist.

[Anonymous No.15207622]

>>15206873
You are stupid.