/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15166984]

>Had an entire year to read the Communist Manifesto
>Never does and gets BTFO
I don't understand. Why would he embarrass himself like that? Shouldn't you know what the enemy's opinions are before you can effectively refute them? Is he only allowed to get away with this folly because he's established?

[Anonymous No.15166995]

>>15166984
>ummmm WASH YOUR PENIS BRO, LIFE IS HARD, YOU NEED TO GET OUT MORE
>can't even read a book to save his fucking life
Fucking embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.15167005]

[Anonymous No.15167009]

>>15166984
Too busy doing drugs

[Anonymous No.15167024]

>>15166984
It's not that he only read the Communist Manifesto (if that), it's that he makes a big deal out of criticizing Marxism while obviously having but a cursory knowledge of it. The CM is the most basic-bitch book Marx and Engels ever wrote.

[Anonymous No.15167037]

>>15166984
>this is the father figure of millions of lonely beta males who were raised by single mothers
Sad.

[Anonymous No.15167047]

>>15166984
He was clearly losing his grip for a couple years beforehand. The man has always been unstable and he couldnt cope with fame at all.

Seriously there is no excuse for not reading at the very least a summary of Marx by some other source. He's obviously not so dumb he couldnt understand it, and he's read plenty of other stuff in his life.

[Anonymous No.15167100]

>>15167047
this, the cognative decline was obvious by that point. there is no excuse for that level of incompetence from an academic of his standing. he literally could have downloaded a text to speech program and listened to the encyclopedia pages for Marx and Zizek and did better than he managed. there is a video of him about a week before the debate saying he was planning on getting started preparing in a few days, that he might try and read A FEW of Zizek's books... in a week...

[Anonymous No.15167101]

How did JP become popular again? I personally think he was a gatekeeper deployed up to promote boomer cuckservatism among the white young men and deviate them from radical identitarian politics, which is objectively true except for the conspiracy part, but I might be wrong. Was he promoted at all or was his rise truly grassroots?

[Never Cursed No.15167114]

>>15166984
I like JBP a lot, though he is certainly the embodiment of the anti-communist who knows nothing about communism other than that Stalin and Mao killed 90348503945830495 people.

[Anonymous No.15167115]

>>15167101
he got famous for resisting a university decision in Canada. he is just a useful idiot with a benzo problem

[Anonymous No.15167117]

>>15167101
He was promoted and really tried to please his masters with his MUH HOLOCAUST shit.

[Anonymous No.15167120]

>>15167101
He refused to follow Canada's laws about using proper pronouns and went viral. He was making literal fedora videos before he became famous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeL-Fn0V8iU

[Anonymous No.15167122]

>>15166984
>The perfect time to read the Communist Manifesto is just after turning off your brain
Ah, typical communist strategy

[Anonymous No.15167150]

>>15167120
>that fedora
OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO, This CANT BE HAPPENING

[Anonymous No.15167199]

>>15167101
He's an alt-light figure but I couldn't tell you if he came to popularity organically because there's a demographic that likes social conservative stances and wants a guy that sounds smart to defend them but can't stomach saying the quite part loud or if he was astro-turfed as a more palatable figure head than people that are farther right

[Anonymous No.15167209]

>>15167199
I think it was just the youtube algorithms just suggesting him to a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.15167216]

>>15167209
It's not a coincidence that he was promoted.

[Anonymous No.15167225]

>>15167209
>youtube algorithms
Are controlled. Just saying.

[Anonymous No.15167240]

Xanax gives you the confidence to skimread the manifesto and then go on to debate a world renowned hegelian philosopher the day after

[Anonymous No.15167253]

Did he lose weight because of his opioid addiction?

[Anonymous No.15167257]

>>15167253
He lost brain mass after lying in a coma for a few months

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.15167259]

>>15166984
Peterson really shit the bed on "know your enemy," he constantly confessed to not knowing Marx's ideology. If he wasn't also averse to Rousseau (God knows why, because he clearly hasn't read Rousseau, classical liberal par excellence and could've saved Peterson in that debate) he could've had some decent arguments as well.

The guy's not stupid, he just tried stepping into a lane he wasn't ready for.

[Anonymous No.15167262]

>>15167216
Was there a lot of behind the scenes support for Peterson from neo-cons? I could describe the process by which someone like Peterson comes to popularity and point out how it's malicious and propped up by certain interests but I couldn't tell you if he was specifically singled out to be promoted or if he just happened to be among the group of people that were being cultivated as socially acceptable alt-light figures

[Anonymous No.15167276]

>>15167262
He came up around the same time as Ben Shapiro, Dave Rubin, Candance Owens, Tomi Lauhren, Milo etc. The last two are irrelevant nowadays but they all started getting promoted on youtube around the same time. Sam Harris was also getting promoted with them but he doesn't share most of their views besides on Islam.

[Anonymous No.15167310]

>>15166984
This is the average person who attempts to criticise Marx, socialism, communism, etc. They have absolutely no idea about any of it beyond capitalist propaganda.

[Anonymous No.15167364]

>>15167259
>The guy's not stupid, he just tried stepping into a lane he wasn't ready for.
he's been standing in that lane for years. he built a whole gazebo in that lane and spent most of his time there. He influenced millions of people's conception of Marx only to admit years after he hadn't even read him

[Anonymous No.15167394]

>>15167310
>>15167024
>>15167114
>that wasn't the real deal, it'll be better this time, promise. So yeah you can stop brining up all those dead people now bro... please.

[Anonymous No.15167400]

>>15167117
Imagine having such an eccentric worldview that you get agitated when someone acknowledges that the Holocaust A) happened and B) was bad.

[Anonymous No.15167407]

>>15167400
what if it didnt though. what a fool you would be

[Never Cursed No.15167411]

>>15167394
You seem to be hallucinating.

[Anonymous No.15167416]

>>15167394
>people don't actually critique Marx they just talk about all the people that died under socialist governments
>oh yeah? what about all the people that died under socialist governments?

[Anonymous No.15167418]

>>15167394
What did anon mean by posting parroted words without a single critical thought? If he's just repeating what others have said before him does he even truly use his own brain to put it forth?

[Anonymous No.15167419]

>>15167400
Peterson inadvertently promoted Holocaust denial, actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9vehIbDkNY

[Anonymous No.15167438]

>>15167419
Did I say anything about Peterson? In what way is this a response to my comment?

[Anonymous No.15167452]

>>15167416
>*smirk* *chuckle* he cannot possibly refute me on my extremely narrow criteria of criticism that I am willing to except as legitimate, excluding my skeletons in the closet of course... all one hundred million of them.

>>15167418
What did this anon mean in replying to the anon, not addressing the fact that his greentext was a rather valid and accurate satire of the childish backlash of marxist trannies?

[Anonymous No.15167466]

>>15167400
it didn't though

[Anonymous No.15167486]

>>15167452
>extremely narrow criteria of criticism
nigger he wrote dozens of books, how is that too narrow for you

[Anonymous No.15167511]

>>15167419
The level of onions in this video gave me man titties

[Anonymous No.15167513]

>>15167452
>Anon lacks even a cursory familiarity with ideologies he opposes
>Also has virtually no understanding of history

[Anonymous No.15167516]

It occurred to me only recently that Jordan Peterson is literally Goldstein from 1984; a member of the Inner Party (that is, he's a tenured professor and UN speaker), supposedly a traitor and existential enemy to the Inner Party, but in reality is entirely propped up as a Two Minutes Hate boogeyman for the Inner Party, while also serving as a conspicious siphon for any would-be dissidents against the party line to gather around.

[Anonymous No.15167521]

>>15167486
No nigger, you the anon and your narrow criteria.
>bet you can't refute muh Marx without bringing up all the stuff I don't want you to bring up that is unsuitable to my position.
On a /lit/ thread and cant even read. For shame anon.

[Anonymous No.15167534]

>>15167486
Lmao fuck off, he was a failed prophet, judging Marxism on the basis of what actually happened is much more useful than judging it by what it says is going to happen. Marxists and Austrians forget that the world isnt governed by their internal logic

[Anonymous No.15167556]

>>15167534
THIS
>b-but it is supposed to work
The Achilles heel of the foolish

[Anonymous No.15167557]

>>15167240
actually laughed at this

[Anonymous No.15167575]

>>15167521
Marx was dead decades before Leninism came into existence. Ignoring Marx solely because on deaths that occurred under Stalin is like discarding "The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of Citizen" because 2 million civilians died in the Napoleonic wars.

[Anonymous No.15167586]

>>15167575
Actually, it's more like ignoring all of Rousseau because of the Napoleonic Wars

[Anonymous No.15167587]

>>15167240
kek

[Anonymous No.15167598]

>>15167534
It's amazing how frequent marxists use the
>it wasn't real communism
argument online as well as irl as if what's written on paper was the true standard
Ironically Marx himself said that practice and history not theory is the true judge
Marxism failed in practice historically. This is a better refutation of Marxism according to his own standard than any argument or any book ever written

[Anonymous No.15167601]

>>15167521
Marx never killed anyone you fucking retard. Do you claim Locke killed hundreds of millions too? How can Marx be responsible for Stalin and Locke not responsible for Leopold II?

[Anonymous No.15167612]

Peterson sees behind the motives of communists so its pointless to read what they try to present to you

[Anonymous No.15167621]

>>15167534
>>15167556
>>15167598
>Marx appealed to history and bad things happened in history so Marx bad
if you can't answer this >>15167601 please kindly fuck off, this is a literature board intended for people who have read a book

[Anonymous No.15167626]

>>15166984
>a man who worked with suicidal people all his life vs WHO WEEEL KLEEN THE TOILET

Peterson should've done better.

[Anonymous No.15167629]

>>15167575
Finally an argument, at least. True it is partly unfair to judge Marx and Lenin et al as the same but then you would expect his philosophy to generate better examples of stable proletariat first societies. After all, it takes a gret effort to genocide so many. If it was a fluke, why were the rest also hellish? If so many attempts result in this, it is clear to me the theory is bunk. If all the passengers on the plane that ate the fish got sick, it's safe to assume it isn't down to one guy's allergies, anon.

>discarding "The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of Citizen" because 2 million civilians died in the Napoleonic wars
Lowkey this tho

[Anonymous No.15167633]

>>15167621
Marxism failed. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.15167636]

>>15167621
/pol/ tourists flocks to JP threads like flies to a lightbulb

[Anonymous No.15167639]

>>15167394
>Capitalism never killed anyone
>don't mention any of those poor people or drug addicts or hazardous waste products bro

[Anonymous No.15167642]

>>15167601
>>15167621
Where did I shill for Locke, fellas? Also see this: >>15167629

[Anonymous No.15167644]

>>15167633
Then we will keep working on it until its successful

[Anonymous No.15167647]

>>15167394
Who are you quoting?

[Anonymous No.15167651]

>>15167394
literally proving their point

[Anonymous No.15167662]

>>15167629
>>discarding "The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of Citizen" because 2 million civilians died in the Napoleonic wars
>Lowkey this tho

Of course it's a reactionary.

[Anonymous No.15167667]

>>15167621
I didnt claim he killed anyone, I claimed that the leaders who flew the communist banner never created a society resembling what anime posting Marxists claim would arise from marxism. If society was compromised of theory nerds and leaders became limp wristed dogooders maybe marxism would have a chance but until then it's just a utopian vision that looks good on paper to some people

[Anonymous No.15167669]

>>15167639
>he thinks that to btfo Marx, one must shill for greedy capitalists
Toppest of keks anon

[Anonymous No.15167674]

>>15167644
At least some good art comes out of it on occasion

[Anonymous No.15167687]

https://youtu.be/NiwTYctDVfw

[Anonymous No.15167691]

>>15167667
everyone who plays the "b-but Stalin" card has never read and understood Marx in his entire life

[Anonymous No.15167693]

>>15167667
How come not. Stalin and Mao were the rulers who saved the most people from poverty in the history of mankind, turning Bangladesh-like countries into two of the biggest powers in the world. Soviet Union almost singlehandedly won WW2

[Anonymous No.15167697]

>>15167651
I pointed out that they are desparately trying to make all criticism about marx invalid by narrowing the critetia of criticism to only what they find appealing, which is ultimately fruitless because they always pick the best battlefield for their own views. They pic the most twisted out of shape criteria so they don't have to accept their flaws. Like a partner caught cheating that demands you dont bring it up in the next lovers quarrel.

[Anonymous No.15167698]

>>15167633
every political system that has ever existed has failed, what is your point?
>>15167642
So you do think Locke is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths? And this doesn't somehow strike you are absolutely retarded? Okay then anon. Good to know how many millions the Buddha killed.

[Anonymous No.15167710]

>>15167667
>I claimed that the leaders who flew the communist banner never created a society resembling what anime posting Marxists claim would arise from marxism
do you have a salient point to make instead?

[Anonymous No.15167711]

>>15167698
>every political system that has ever existed has failed, what is your point?
That's not what your bitch Marx said it would happen though. Communism was supposed to be the end of history.

[Anonymous No.15167717]

>>15167687
https://youtu.be/B8maahtpu4A

[Anonymous No.15167720]

>>15167698
>every political system that has ever existed has failed, what is your point?
So why you defending a failed system? Have you no sense?

[Anonymous No.15167725]

>>15167691
Again, judge a system by it's results not the plan
>>15167693
If you genuinely want to live in a society like communist china/Russia than sure communism is great.

[Anonymous No.15167736]

To be fair most zoomer marxists didn't read Marx either.

[Anonymous No.15167738]

>>15167725
>If you genuinely want to live in a society like communist china/Russia than sure communism is great.

Have you actually compared these countries to what they looked like before the revolutions? Russia was having massive famines long before communism arrived, and it was a agrarian autocracy.

[Anonymous No.15167740]

>>15167717
https://www.bitchute.com/video/PMUVybQ3WRku/

[Anonymous No.15167743]

>>15167697
>They pic the most twisted out of shape criteria
literally the opposite though
>let's talk about Marx
>No! We must only focus on Russia and China in the early to mid 20th c! ANY DISCUSSION OF MARX IS ALREADY NULL AND VOID BECAUSE OF THESE HIGHLY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES DON'T IGNORE ME YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT MARX BECAUSE STALIN! STOP THAT! NOOO

[Anonymous No.15167752]

>>15167711
do you think history has ended? are you actually that retarded? even Fukuyama doesn't buy that shit anymore lmao
>>15167720
what system do you think I'm defending? I haven't defended a single political organization itt

[Anonymous No.15167757]

>>15167662
Yes. Why is that even an insult?

>>15167693
>Mao were the rulers who saved the most people from poverty
Bait, I fucking hope

>Soviet Union almost singlehandedly won WW2
>80 conscriots lost to every 1 American GI
I could win that war if you gave me infinite warm bodies anon.

>>15167698
>So you do think Locke is responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths? And this doesn't somehow strike you are absolutely retarded? Okay then anon. Good to know how many millions the Buddha killed.
The difference is that the buddha did not outline a plan of action for the forced regimebtation and reorganization if society. He didnt outline the iron clad laws of history and mathematics and finance and then lay them out in a way so as to predict the fucking future. No one waved a document penned by Lord Buddha to the crowd of peasants and said that he could single handedly change the course of history in order to forge a new destiny (apparently nothing stops the universal determinism of economics except a bit of theorizing and propaganada can) and then implement a buddha friendly plan of industrialisation. Marx was the dead architect of this regime. He was the Frank Lloyd Wright to the USSR's Fallingwater.

[Anonymous No.15167760]

>This is the average person who attempts to criticise Marx, socialism, communism, etc. They have absolutely no idea about any of it beyond capitalist propaganda.

[Anonymous No.15167762]

>>15167752
Shut the fuck up commie bastard. Now communism isn't even a political organization, right. Keep moving that goalpost until you're so diluted we're all communists.

[Anonymous No.15167765]

>>15167743
According to Marx the only criterion to judge a theory is practice, so if it failed in practice that's the end of that. There is no sense in having a theorical discussion about the finer points of Marxian theory except as a history of ideas course.

[Anonymous No.15167766]

>>15167738
Even if I agree that what you're saying is true, those aren't problems in modern first world countries. Losing autonomy and property to solve nonexistent problems doesn't seem like something that would benefit anyone right now

[Anonymous No.15167767]

>>15167743
>HIGHLY SPECIFIC EXAMPLES
Pick one you like then anon. How about Cuba? Got a nice Marxist country to btfo me with?

[Anonymous No.15167769]

>>15167725
The hundreds of millions of people who went from choosing between eating grass or dying of famine, to living over 70 years of age in the early XX, would rather choose this than living in capitalist colonies like India, Bangladesh, the Caribbean or Africa, yes

[Anonymous No.15167773]

>>15167736
Yeah but most zoomer marxists aren't famous academics who get massive air time and money as though they are authorities on the topic

[Anonymous No.15167783]

>>15167752
>do you think history has ended?
Lmao you're so dumb the point went over your head. No wonder you're a commie. I don't think history ended or it will end as long as humans live. It's your fat bald hero that thought communism was supposed to be the end of history and the system that couldn't possibly fail.

[Anonymous No.15167801]

>>15167757
>I could win that war if you gave me infinite warm bodies anon.
Cope. The Soviet Union won the biggest war in the history of mankind, when just a couple years prior it was literally Mongolia

[Anonymous No.15167813]

Just how gay were Marx and Engels?

[Anonymous No.15167822]

>>15167813
Very gay

[Anonymous No.15167829]

>>15167757
>The difference is that the buddha did not outline a plan of action for the forced regimebtation and reorganization if society. He didnt outline the iron clad laws of history and mathematics and finance and then lay them out in a way so as to predict the fucking future
the "iron clad laws of history" were directly ignored by Lenin and Mao. if you knew anything about Marxism you would know that Lenin abandoned Marx's model of history in favor of a vanguard revolution. Socialism in one country is straight out of Stalin, even Lenin didn't go that far lmao. you are just talking out your ass anon

[Anonymous No.15167834]

>>15167767
Cuba, despite the commercial block, had some of the best standards of living in Latin America for decades. To this day they still have the best standards of living in the Caribbean, despite only being able to profit from sex tourism.

[Anonymous No.15167836]

>>15167801
They won by force of numbers and help from Liberals and Russia had held its own against European forces for centuries before under the Tsars

[Anonymous No.15167847]

>>15167801
>gets thoroughly btfo'd by Germany right up to Stalingrad until the other biggest player steps into the ring, fresh, well fed, funded, armed, trained and three years late to the fight when the other guys are on the ropes.
I could beat anyone in a fight too, if some guy snuck up on my opponent and ass raped him while I took my shots.

>>15167829
>Lenin abandoned Marx's model of history in favor of a vanguard revolution
>IT WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM, REEEEE!!!
Like clockwork

[Anonymous No.15167852]

>>15167762
Marx never defined it that way. He talks about communist societies, but only a fucking moron would equate that with communism. How many books of Marx have you read anon? I take it you do know the relevant material at hand?
>>15167767
>How about Cuba?
one of the most successful countries to ever exist outside US hegemony. Fantastic education and health care. I wouldn't want to move there, but they are certainly not a failed state. Did you mean to meme Venezuela instead?

[Anonymous No.15167862]

>>15167836
>They won by force of numbers
Cope. They won. The nazis lost so bad that they had to retreat 1800 km all the way back to Berlin. And lose there too.

>Russia had held its own against European forces for centuries before under the Tsars
There hasn't been a single conflict in history as big as the german invasion onto the Soviet Union.

[Anonymous No.15167863]

>>15167852
>He talks about communist societies, but only a fucking moron would equate that with communism.
yes what a strange mistake to make

[Anonymous No.15167866]

>>15167783
>communism doesn't work. communism is the end of history
>so we are at the end of history?
>no
>so... you are saying those examples aren't real communism?
>durrrr fuck off commie logic is a socialist scam

[Anonymous No.15167868]

>>15167834
>all your citizens get eaten by fucking sharks trying to swim to the US
>it's okay bro, we are secretly really great.
Ask the average Cuban that remembers what it was like being Cuban before Communism. It wasn't exactly Haiti before now was it.

[Anonymous No.15167870]

>>15167863
If you're an illiterate like Peterson this will happen though

[Anonymous No.15167871]

>>15167862
you completely failed to respond to either point

[Anonymous No.15167879]

>you just know

[Anonymous No.15167880]

>>15167870
This is the same thing I try to tell people about National Socialism. National Socialism is not the same thing as National Socialist societies and only an idiot would make this mistake.

[Anonymous No.15167881]

>>15167847
>Like clockwork
well anon? did Marx lay out the evils that killed millions of people or did Lenin? You were quite confident it was Marx's laws, are you reconsidering? I assume you have read both of them correct? why else would you talk about them on a book about literature...

[Anonymous No.15167882]

>>15167868
I don't think I could find a 100 year old cuban. If I did, I don't think his memory would be on point.

[Anonymous No.15167889]

>>15167880
socialism is a political organization though... fuck just read Marx, please...

[Anonymous No.15167894]

>>15167852
> I wouldn't want to move there
Its all so tiresome.
Also, the US is assuredly the reason for many of these coubtries fucking up, for sure. But Cuba aint no paradise. No I didn't meme Venezuela. Getting eated by sharks while trying to swim the last mile to Miami is enough for me to realise Cuba is a dump. Clearly you see that too.

>>15167882
Ooooh damn, look at that dodge. You know what I meant nigga, don't be a coward.

[Anonymous No.15167900]

>>15167882
Cuba had their revolution in the 50's anon, there are still people alive from the 50's. Castro only died a few years ago

[Anonymous No.15167904]

>>15166984
>had 18 years to raise a daughter
>raises a whore of babylon that abandons her husband and child to ride the cock of some hyper insecure mixed race pickup artist and tries to swindle money out of vulnerable people who follow her father with her carnivore diet.

[Anonymous No.15167911]

>>15167894
>You know what I meant nigga
I don't. Standards of living, life expectancy, literacy rates, everything went up after the revolution.

[Anonymous No.15167915]

>>15167866
>some dumfuck says his utopian system will be the end of history
>we are not at the end of history
>it's not that his system doesn't work, it's that it wasn't real communism yet!
>reality itself must adjust to what this guy wrote in a book otherwise reality is wrong

[Anonymous No.15167916]

>>15167894
proving Cuba is a dump literally wasn't the issue at hand though, do you ever remember what point you were trying to prove? It certainly wasn't that a tiny island nation has less wealth than the richest country that has ever existed...

[Anonymous No.15167923]

>>15167866
The idea of end of history is fucking dumb and so are you

[Anonymous No.15167925]

>>15167881
I explained in my airplain analogy well enough. Of course the guy that taught thw chef at culinary school gow to make fish is not responsible for the food poisoning, but if he just. cannot. fucking. stop. poisoning his diners, maybe that teacher... was a fucking hack.

>>15167911
>reportedly went up according to Cuba itself.
And even if it did, is it even close to literally any developed liberal nation on earth in absokute terms?

[Anonymous No.15167927]

>>15167915
>reality itself must adjust to what this guy wrote in a book otherwise reality is wrong
YOU are literally the one trying to adjust reality (USSR, China) to fit what Marx wrote. Marx NEVER advocated for any society which looks like those, but you assume the link MUST be there regardless of what Marx actually wrote

[Anonymous No.15167932]

>>15167868
>Ask the average Cuban that remembers what it was like being Cuban before Communism. It wasn't exactly Haiti before now was it.

This absolutely disingenuous. Cuba didn't just collapse "under communism", it flourished for decades and collapsed exactly when its oil imports were embargoed by the entire world. Cuba's economic collapse was a diplomatic collapse.

[Anonymous No.15167939]

>>15167927
>not real communism not real communism not real communism
If I keep saying it it will make it so

[Anonymous No.15167942]

>>15167916
Do you remeber? If Stalin and Lenin purposefully trashed Marx and his potential to save the world, and that is too narrow a criteria to judge Marxism on, then show me one of the Marxism efforts that turned out just as Marx would have wanted. In short, show me ypur Marxiat utopia, and if more than a dozen efforts all produced nothing close, then perhaps... your theory is shit.

[Anonymous No.15167947]

>>15167925
so anyone who is a bad driver, their teacher must be a bad driver too? there is no such thing as a bad driver? a bad chef? a bad politician? they are exactly as good or bad as whoever taught them the most? I guess Jesus must have been a blood thirsty fuck, did you ever hear of the inquisitions???

[Anonymous No.15167958]

how is this a literature thread?

[Anonymous No.15167959]

>>15167939
it was literally authoritarian socialism, even they called it the Union of Socialist Soviet Republics, not the Communist Union

[Anonymous No.15167966]

>>15167932
>cuban niggas be swimming to miami
>flourish
Isn't it amazing that Russia is today heavily embargoed and yet it is getting better and better each passing year. Perhaps if your theory breeds such a fragile system, that theory is crap.

[Anonymous No.15167976]

>>15167942
>If Stalin and Lenin purposefully trashed Marx and his potential to save the world, and that is too narrow a criteria to judge Marxism on, then show me one of the Marxism efforts that turned out just as Marx would have wanted
one can be true without the other being true. Just because people fucked up Marx doesn't mean there must be a perfect example of Marxism being implemented. not only is this literally a non sequitur, it still doesn't say anything about communism, because as you agree, that can only emerge at the end of history

[Anonymous No.15167978]

>>15167925
Unesco quoted the cuban literacy plan executed in 1961 as one of the most effective and fastest implemented in history

Cuban doctors were regarded as the best in the world for decades too, so I doubt they lied about their mortality rates or life expectancy

>>15167925
How hypocrital can you be. Cuba hasn't been able to trade with the rest of the world for decades, yet you go straight and compare it with developed countries. Why don't you compare it to its neighbors like Haiti, Jamaica, Belize, Republica Dominicana?

[Anonymous No.15167997]

>>15167863
>>15167870

Marxist sympathizers will never admit to any failings, it's good to point out their stupidity but it's a lost cause in the long run if you think the deluded will self-reflect. Marx and Engels literally write to abolish the family, soviets tried it and then back pedaled , and now modern philosophers like Peter Singer say "oh they didn't ACTUALLY say remove the family, Marx had a family you know!" Despite the fucking manifesto literally saying "Abolish the family!" Is the communist manifesto not communist? Is this all clarified on page 550 of Capital in the original German?

Ask yourself if you think there is such a thing as human nature? We have science, biology and thousands of years of tendencies to back up a "yes".

However, If your answer is "no, there is no Human Nature" then you are a deluded Marxist faggot and should be killed. Keep trying to shoehorn any event into proof that marx was on to something.

[Anonymous No.15167998]

>>15167947
We don't have another instance of Marxian ideas being put into practice other than these historical examples. You say they are distortions of Marx's ideas, but they certainly didn't think so. Many Marxist intellectuals in the 20th century would and have agreed, so what makes your interpretation of Marx the correct one and theirs not? In reality, what you're trying to say is that we judge ideas and not historical examples of these ideas being put into practice. You are therefore an idealist, not a materialist.

[Anonymous No.15168012]

>>15167947
>bad chef poisons a guy
>blames his teacher
>teacher chef was many fine students
>teacher chef is not responsible

>bad chef poisons a guy
>blames his teacher
>teacher chef has had every student he ever graduated come back with criminal negligence claims against him for serving raw day old lobster, serving bad scallops, plating up pink chicken, and forging receipts to match his claims that his restaurant is super popular
hmmmm

[Anonymous No.15168017]

>>15167997
>peterson tried to debate communism without reading anything about it, like /pol/ tourists in this thread
>NOOOOOO MY 500 GORILLION YOU CAN'T SAY THAAAAAAAT

[Anonymous No.15168027]

>>15167998
>You say they are distortions of Marx's ideas, but they certainly didn't think so
Yes, Lenin talked quite a bit about how Marxism needs to be revamped to fit a soviet revolution, literally every Marxist ever would agree with that. That's literally the whole reason Marxists distinguish between Marxism and Marxist-Leninism... I honestly think you have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to not know what you are talking about anon, like fuck you might have even read less Marx than Peterson

[Anonymous No.15168026]

>>15168017
the classless stateless society will never happen. Have fun licking the next lenin's boot though if thats what gets you off

[Anonymous No.15168051]

>>15168026
You will never be free.

[Anonymous No.15168053]

>>15168012
the fact you think this is even remotely analogous to the relationship between Marx and the USSR/China is actually hilarious. What about Bismark? He implemented a shitload of Marxist policies, why didn't Germany go bankupt and fall apart? Why didn't America collapse under the New Deal?

[Anonymous No.15168063]

>>15167998
>You say they are distortions of Marx's ideas
LITERALLY Lenin, Stalin, Mao, said they didn't apply Marx's ideas but their own.

[Anonymous No.15168064]

The not real x argument can be played by both sides. Whatever Marxist can say to criticize capitalism can be answered with: it's not real capitalism because it's not exactly as Smith or Hayek wrote, so we just have to ignore and keep trying.

[Anonymous No.15168068]

>>15167997
Damn, can't believe old Charlie didn't think about Human Nature... that shit sux man...

[Anonymous No.15168075]

>>15167978
>Unesco quoted the cuban literacy plan executed in 1961 as one of the most effective and fastest implemented in history
This the UNESCO that is a part of the same toothless organization that runs the chinese health orga... I mean, the World health Organization? And lets say that it is literal, fine and dandy, I will give you that... literally the entire developed west is near total literacy rates anon, it has achieved nothing nee. It is clear to me that Cuba achieved literacy in spite of its Marxism, not because of it. It scrapes by and JUST passes muster, whilst being a dump by any other metric.

>Cuban doctors were regarded as the best in the world for decades too, so I doubt they lied about their mortality rates or life expectancy
Why would you doubt that? Their gealthcare has been shown to be a sham. Journalists from Time (iirc) have reported the completely out of line publicity and propaganda and the actual conditions of medical treatment in Cuba. It isnt at all the healthcare capital of the world.

As for embargoes, I compared it to Russia, a place where the life expectancy is on par with Honduras and the average Russian GDP per capita is 6000 USD. Hardly an industrialised country. Oh, and another of the nations visited by your plague I might add.

[Anonymous No.15168082]

>>15168075
UNESCO is communist now lmao

Yes anon, it's all fake news

[Anonymous No.15168089]

>>15168051
Yeah im aware, nobody ever will be

[Anonymous No.15168090]

>>15168027
>>15168063
That is a gross historical revisionism. The majority of Marxist intellectuals in the 20th century was in the Soviet (and China) bandwagon. Only now after they either failed completely or embraced capitalism can someone say that it wasn't real communism that with a straight face (because admiting otherwise would be to give up). You are true religious zelots.

[Anonymous No.15168091]

>>15167966
>Isn't it amazing that Russia is today heavily embargoed and yet it is getting better and better each passing year. Perhaps if your theory breeds such a fragile system, that theory is crap.

Russia has domestic oil you absolute fucking brainlet.

[Anonymous No.15168096]

>>15168075
cope. Ban Ki-moon even jerked off the Cuban healthcare system for being a highly functional model for the rest of the world to look to

[Anonymous No.15168102]

>>15168090
>Only now after they either failed completely or embraced capitalism can someone say that it wasn't real communism that with a straight face (because admiting otherwise would be to give up). You are true religious zelots.

Lmao capitalists play the exact same game--they cite China as scary Communists when China looks bad, and claim China is "actually capitalist" when China looks strong.

[Anonymous No.15168104]

>>15168075
Pure cope and seethe: the post

[Anonymous No.15168117]

Peterson taught at a university in Toronto. He knows communism more than anyone.

[Anonymous No.15168119]

>>15168090
>That is a gross historical revisionism. The majority of Marxist intellectuals in the 20th century was in the Soviet (and China) bandwagon
you keep making points that don't actually attack the claim at hand. the issue is that Lenin, Mao, ect. all openly discussed problems with Marx's theory and attempted to fix them. You counter that by claiming Marxists supported the Soviets, but that doesn't actually say anything about the claim. Marxists could both think Lenin changed Marx's system and still support the Soviets, there is nothing contradictory there. This isn't even an issue of historical accuracy, you seem to be struggling with basic syllogisms.

[Anonymous No.15168121]

>>15168053
You think that anything approaching statist is marxism? I am sure there are plenty of things you can take from Marx and be handy with them. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But if you were to follow this program to the letter you'd be implementing a crackpots dream.

>why didnt america collapse under the new deal?
Anon, I..... have you seen what gibs are doing to America?

>>15168082
>UNESCO is communist now lmao
Strawman and not what I said, I said the UN is toothless and useless. They shill for other dictatorial hellscapes, why not this one eh?

>>15168091
>an economy is its oil reserves/imports/exports

>>15168096
And yet they all went to America, even Mexicans don't try and fight sharks anon and that place really is a shit hole.

>>15168104
Not even a counter argument, why am I surprised?

[Anonymous No.15168128]

ITT: Marxists idealist.
>it's the ideas and the written words that matter bro, just wait until the Spirit of History actualizes the Concept of Communism and you will see, there will be milk and honey

[Anonymous No.15168131]

>>15167881
>something something black book something something secret internal documents something something no, not those secret internal documents, the other ones

[Anonymous No.15168141]

>>15168075
It would've been better if you stayed with the muh 600 gorillion rhetoric. It's painfully obvious this subject eludes you.

[Anonymous No.15168142]

>>15168121
>You think that anything approaching statist is marxism? I am sure there are plenty of things you can take from Marx and be handy with them. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But if you were to follow this program to the letter you'd be implementing a crackpots dream.
okay, but we already established that NONE of the communist leaders you are memeing followed Marx's program to the letter. Read Lenin, or Mao, or Stalin, they will tell you themselves

[Anonymous No.15168149]

>>15168131
>>15167866

[Anonymous No.15168168]

>>15168121
>an economy is its oil reserves/imports/exports

Do you understand how industrial society works? It is literally impossible for Cuba, under any domestic economic policy, to exist as an industrial society with access to oil. Cuba was one of the most developed Latin American countries for decades under Castro (which is not to defend his human rights crimes), and it had an immediate catastrophic collapse because they could not purchase oil. No cars, no electricity.

To point out that Russia can survive sanctions is *completely* missing the point. Show me a country that can survive not having oil.

[Anonymous No.15168175]

>>15168119
>all openly discussed problems with Marx's theory and attempted to fix them.
Wasn't Marxism supposed to be non dogmatic and up to date with the hstorical practice of the proletariat or some other jargon like that? I don't see the problem with attempting to fix it from a materialist perspective. Of course you're in fact an idealist, so...
>Marxists supported the Soviets
Yes, actual Marxist intellectuals, like Althusser, rather than some loser on an image board. The point is that there is no authoritative interpretation of Marxism that can serve as the basis to judge whether the Soviet Union was the authentic Marxist ortho-praxis, much less yours, because you're a greesy-fingered neet that hasn't published anything
>struggling with basic syllogisms
I'm not struggling at all, I'm amusing myself until dinner is ready.

[Anonymous No.15168176]

>>15168168
bro you are using material analysis, this only angers and enrages the anti-Marx cuck because they think material reality is whatever corporate media has approved

[Anonymous No.15168184]

>>15168176
>marxists
>caring at all about material analysis
Oh I'm laffin. This thread proves the contrary

[Anonymous No.15168185]

>>15168175
>literally using 'spoonfeed me' as an argument
just wow

[Anonymous No.15168199]

Marxism is a religion

[Anonymous No.15168202]

>>15168175
>Wasn't Marxism supposed to be non dogmatic and up to date with the hstorical practice of the proletariat or some other jargon like that? I don't see the problem with attempting to fix it from a materialist perspective
there isn't any problem, the materialist analysis would be judging if they worked. I assume we are on the same page and agree the USSR was a failure, so I don't get what you mean. Also, passively aggressively calling me an idealist isn't earning you any brownie points it just looks like more cope
>Yes, actual Marxist intellectuals, like Althusser, rather than some loser on an image board. The point is that there is no authoritative interpretation of Marxism that can serve as the basis to judge whether the Soviet Union was the authentic Marxist ortho-praxis, much less yours, because you're a greesy-fingered neet that hasn't published anything
oh, so you literally don't understand the words I have been typing to you. What are you even arguing against anon? That the Soviets still deserve to call themselves Marxist? I'm lost
>I'm not struggling at all
nigger you just typed out a whole paragraph of non-sequiturs

[Anonymous No.15168203]

>>15168176
>marx invented understanding you need resources
god you are the dumbest people on earth

[Anonymous No.15168207]

>>15168184
okay, so provide some material analysis of Cuba like the other anon...

[Anonymous No.15168208]

>>15167024
karl "jews are the root of all evil" marx.

[Anonymous No.15168215]

>>15168203
>marx invented understanding you need resources
no he claimed all historical developments are the result of changes in real material conditions; for some reason this seems unfathomable to you

[Anonymous No.15168241]

>>15168215
Because it's retarded and ignores the way humans choose to behave, which forms a complex feedback loop with material conditions.

[Anonymous No.15168245]

>>15166984
>Croatia finds Peterson far more convincing in his argument
>B-BUT HE DIDN'T READ THE ENTIRE BOOK
Fuck off with your pilpul. You don't need to read Marx to know Marxism.

Line up for your helicopter rides comrades.

[Anonymous No.15168246]

>>15168241
you you are saying... there is a superstructure to the material basis... wow...

[Anonymous No.15168251]

>>15167259
>Rousseau
>Not being a joke
Oh Jesus. You have a liberal arts degree, don't you?

[Anonymous No.15168252]

>>15168208
That sounds based, why do we hate him again?

[Anonymous No.15168263]

>>15168246
No Im saying that what Marx calls the superstructure is part of the basic causal dynamics, not purely a result of material conditions.

[Anonymous No.15168267]

>>15166984
>Hey why don't we talk about the real world applications of Marxism and their consequences?
>NOOOO READ THE BOOK I ONLY WANT TO DISCUSS SPECIFIC THEORY
This is why you commies are dying breed. Go to hell and take Bernie Sanders with you.

Crawl into the pit of history that has been dug for you and be silent.

[Anonymous No.15168275]

>You can't criticise my religion unless you read their book.
>Noooo, just ignore how all the believers behave, read the booooooook.
>It's suppose to be shit at the start, but it gets better, trust me, read the book, paradise is right around the corner.

[Anonymous No.15168279]

>>15168267
Welcome to /lit/, where we actually read books.

[Anonymous No.15168284]

>>15168263
>what Marx calls the superstructure is part of the basic causal dynamics
yes, that was his point, it's a big feedback loop that we can effect by changing real material conditions
>The totality of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises a legal and political superstructure, and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness.[3] The mode of production of material life conditions the general process of social, political, and intellectual life. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness. At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society come into conflict with the existing relations of production or—this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms—with the property relations within the framework of which they have operated hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces, these relations turn into their fetters. Then begins an era of social revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead, sooner or later, to the transformation of the whole, immense, superstructure.

[Anonymous No.15168289]

>>15168279
>/lit/, where we actually read books
solid joke

[Anonymous No.15168290]

>>15168142
>okay, but we already established that NONE of the communist leaders you are memeing followed Marx's program to the letter. Read Lenin, or Mao, or Stalin, they will tell you themselves
Oh have we? Isnt it funny that Bismarck implementing a handful of things is not as damaging as Lenin implementing MOST of the Marxist things? The less Marx you have, the better your society becomes.

>>15168176
Nice strawman. I must disagree with you because if I had the vision to look past pripagabda I would be a Marxist with you? The arrogance. How dp you not know that you have swallowed the propaganda of Marxist theorists.

>>15168168
>marxism was gonna work this time, and I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling Americans
It was just gonna work where everywhere else had failed right bro? Even if I concede everything to you, that Cuba really elevated peoples standars of living and would continue to do so, even though not many Cubans would have chosen to be born there if they could, you still havent answered the question of why every single place did it perfectly well without murdering droves of people and setting up forced labour camps for homosexuals and making their citizens caged animals. Why was it (up until the embargo) that cuba was just about passing muster against the every other system of governance? And even if by some miracle it implemented this Marxist plan perfectly, why is it that the plan is so fragile it needs reinvention so often?

[Anonymous No.15168292]

>>15168275
When reality doesn't support your views, insist on debating only theory.

>>15168279
Have you tried reading good books?

[Anonymous No.15168294]

>>15168267
>Hey why don't we talk about the real world applications of Marxism and their consequences?
wrong board anon
>>>/pol/
>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.15168307]

>>15168284
>the real foundation, on which arises
This is what Im disagreeing with. The real foundation is not purely what he calls the material/economic, but involves factors like culture and the specific population of people you have.

[Anonymous No.15168318]

>>15168284
So does that actually mean anything quantifiable or is it just a bunch of liberal arts bullshit?

[Anonymous No.15168321]

>>15168290
>Isnt it funny that Bismarck implementing a handful of things is not as damaging as Lenin implementing MOST of the Marxist things? The less Marx you have, the better your society becomes.
I mean, that is the ultimate idealist reading that ignores the material realities between German realpolitik in the 19th c and Russian revolutionary socialism in the 20th c, as well as the purpose of implementation. If you are too lazy to study European history this might work for you

[Anonymous No.15168327]

>>15168294
>Admitting /lit/ doesn't care about living or thinking in reality
This entire board is just a circle jerk for liberal arts degree baristas with Che shirts, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.15168338]

>>15168267
If commies actually knew how to debate and think they wouldn't be losing on the world stage for decades now.

[Anonymous No.15168342]

>>15168321
I am ignoring yet you wont explain what you think I am getting wrong?
>he just doesn't get it bro
Wow, I really am in hot water here. Go on anon, explain what I am missing.

[Anonymous No.15168348]

>>15168327
Yes.

[Anonymous No.15168356]

>>15168327
/Lit/ is where commies crawl to lick their wounds after /pol/ bends them over a table.

[Anonymous No.15168361]

>>15168245
This is the kind of person who prays once and calls himself christian

[Anonymous No.15168373]

>>15168318
>spoonfeed me I'm retarded
You should've exited this thread hours ago

[Anonymous No.15168399]

>>15168307
No, the foundation is always material. This is so obvious, like feudalism will never happen in dolphins, as they don't have the ability to practice liege-lord agriculture, because they live in the ocean. The rise of feudalism, although wrapped up in factors of culture like, for instance, Christianity, which absolutely effected it, still could never have come about had man not been in the material conditions by which liege-lord agriculture could be practiced in the first place. Therefore it makes total sense that the ideology of feudal monarchy can exist in Europe but not in the Pacific Ocean. I still have no idea why people argue against this idea, it's like the most basic materialist understanding of social reality. Being against historical materialism today is akin to being a flat earther but anti-Marx fags just reallllly need to hate Marx even if that means looking like a total fucking moron

[Anonymous No.15168407]

>>15168327
I'm saying this a board to talk about books you massive faggot

[Anonymous No.15168412]

>>15168327
No, we have christlarpers and frogposters too

[Anonymous No.15168418]

>>15168399
Two groups of people with the same material conditions will still behave differently because of their genes and culture, which will lead to different inventions and political forms.

[Anonymous No.15168438]

>>15168418
Yes, and genetics and culture are both ultimately depending on material conditions. Marx was totally in favor of material, genetic human nature unlike those faggy liberals

[Anonymous No.15168440]

>>15168373
So the answer is "no."

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.15168489]

>>15168251
How about you elaborate on whatever criticism you picked up from Youtube or some neocon on Joe Rogan so we can see you barely know who Rousseau is

[Anonymous No.15168532]

>>15166984
He was on drugs.

>>15167024
You don't need to read Marx to realize that communism is a midwit utopia (written by a Balzac fan - this should tell you all about its inherent midwittery) that will lead to very high levels of fragility in the system and the highest imaginable lack of skin in the game; but yea, if you wish to become a professor who bases a lot of his discussions on criticisms of Marx, then you should definitely read at least Das Kapital, Lenin, Lukacs, Gramsci, and Adorno/Horkheimer. At the very least, that is.

[Anonymous No.15168545]

>>15168532
>written by a Balzac fan - this should tell you all about its inherent midwittery
Holy based

[Anonymous No.15168557]

>>15168532
hey, stop, I'm a Balzac fan too

[Anonymous No.15168563]

>>15167516
how's high school?

[Anonymous No.15168576]

>>15167005

[Anonymous No.15168582]

>>15168532
>You don't need to read Marx to realize that communism is a midwit utopia
I would ask you to find me a single quote where Marx advocated for a utopia but you admit you've never read him. He loved to shit on anyone proposing a utopia
>The undeveloped state of the class struggle, as well as their own surroundings, causes Socialists of this kind to consider themselves far superior to all class antagonisms. They want to improve the condition of every member of society, even that of the most favored. Hence, they habitually appeal to society at large, without distinction of class; nay, by preference, to the ruling class. For how can people, when once they understand their system, fail to see it in the best possible plan of the best possible state of society?
...
>The practical measures proposed in them -- such as the abolition of the distinction between town country, of the family, of the carrying on of industries for the account of private individuals, and of the wage system, the proclamation of social harmony, the conversion of the functions of the State into a mere superintendence of production, all these proposals, points solely to the disappearance of class antagonisms which were, at that time, only just cropping up, and which, in these publications, are recognized in their earliest, indistinct and undefined forms only. These proposals, therefore, are of a purely Utopian character.

[Anonymous No.15168590]

>>15167394
So what.

[Anonymous No.15168602]

>>15167418
Reddit tier critique

[Anonymous No.15168604]

>>15168438
Don't bother, most of these racecels think genetics are literal magic and that white people are related to angels or some shit lmao

[Anonymous No.15168631]

>>15168604
le successful black country face

[Anonymous No.15168641]

>>15166984
Why even read the Manifesto? Read Kapital for a better understanding.

[Anonymous No.15168648]

>>15168489
How about you suck my cock revolution boot licker?

[Anonymous No.15168661]

His whole schtick from the Canadian freedom of
speech ruckus onward was merely to sell
books. As he said on Joe Rogan, he was
monetizing the SJWs. He's such a hack,
OF COURSE he gets hooked on benzos.

[Anonymous No.15168679]

>>15168641
That's the worst part, he glossed over the manifesto even though it's nowhere near fundamental in marxist literature. Still remember how he backpedalled full force and tried to pretend he was interested and learning something new from Zizek.

[Anonymous No.15168706]

I’m not on the Marxist camp but to try to refute Marxism by refuting the communist manifesto is kind of appalling. And then using basic bitch boomer arguments at that. What was he thinking? That he got his niche public on such a lock that it wouldn’t make a difference and it was not worth the effort? Or was he already sick and didn’t have the energy? I hope the latter.

[Anonymous No.15168783]

I WANT TO SEE THAT BEARDED SNIFFING HEGELIAN SLOVENIAN SLAVIC PIECE OF SHIT PHILOSOPHER DESTROYED BY SOMEONE

BUT HE ALWAYS PULLS THE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS STUPID EDGE CASE THAT PROVES ME POINT BULLSHIT

[Anonymous No.15168806]

>>15168783
>Pulls the but what about this stupid edge case that proves my point bullshit
That's because he gets reamed and reverts to using pilpul like a good academic.

[Anonymous No.15168816]

>>15168706
>What was he thinking?
Judging by the Croatian media's reception of the event, Peterson fucking destroyed him.

[Anonymous No.15168823]

>>15167598
yeah but Marxists think that talking about "end of history" is meaningless, Zizek specifically brought up this point few times in his books in reference to Fukuyama's famous thesis so it still makes sense for them to push for communism because it's supposedly a historical necessity

[Anonymous No.15168826]

>>15166984
It's good to know thoroughly your enemy's opinion for a debate, but honestly you don't even need to read Marx to know that communism is absolute garbage and evil shit.

[Anonymous No.15168841]

>>15168783
He's really smart

Peterson honestly was no match for him, Homer trying to fight Drederick Tatum

[Anonymous No.15168844]

>>15168823
>H-History doesn't count now
Rabble rabble bitch bitch comrades. Everyone can see you move those goalposts like the losers you are. This is why you are LOSING. You fucks peaked before the goddamn internet and its all been downhill from there.

Time to go to sleep grandpa. The future is capitalist.

[Anonymous No.15168852]

>>15168841
>He's really smart
I guess when you spend your life saying to say yes sir to liberal arts professors they look intelligent to you.

[Anonymous No.15168863]

>>15168841
>He's really smart
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
This here? This is why Trump is getting re-elected. You dumb shits aren't even in a parallel reality. You're in Wonderland.

[Anonymous No.15168876]

>>15166984
>The commie won the debate
Uh huh. And Bernie beat Biden. Shhhhh. Go to sleep. It'll be okay.

[Anonymous No.15168889]

>>15168582
He did even worse: he tried to understand the course of history. (Midwit aim, typical of a Balzac reader)

The ''utopia'' is in the future society that he envisioned. Doesn't matter if he spoke of it in those terms or not.

[Anonymous No.15168891]

>Trying to defend communism right after the Chicoms unleashed a disease on the planet
Can you c/lit/s just fucking die already? You fucks are probably on welfare anyway. Your existence contributes nothing to anyone.

[Anonymous No.15168956]

>>15168823
>Fukuyama's famous thesis
Nevermind Fukuyma. He only gave it a name, but invented the concept. For Marx the motor of history was class struggle and since communism is a classless society it follows that communism is the end of history, no matter what modern revionists might say to save face.

[Anonymous No.15168969]

>>15168956
Marx* invented the concept. Inb4 Hegel did. Irrelevant because Marx accepted it.

[Anonymous No.15169008]

>>15168889
>The ''utopia'' is in the future society that he envisioned. Doesn't matter if he spoke of it in those terms or not.
He was literally shitting on people who were envisioning future societies to begin with. Be honest anon, can you read? Even Balzac?

[Anonymous No.15169018]

>>15168956
>communism is a classless society
communist society is classless*
yes it does matter

[Anonymous No.15169027]

>>15168969
Jesus invented it you retard, or maybe the Norse depending how you read it

[Anonymous No.15169035]

>>15169027
>>15168969

[Anonymous No.15169052]

>>15168889
Yes, Marx didn't literally mean what he explicitly said, he actually meant what you non-erroneusly stated.

[Anonymous No.15169079]

>>15168582
>it isn't utopia if he didn't call it utopia
Lmao Marxist religious fundamentalists actually think words have more reality than reality itself.

[Anonymous No.15169118]

>>15168876
Didn't you see? He couldn't name a post modernist! Ignore that if he did identify any post- modernist it would be shot down because they don't self-identify as a post modernist. Much like how I wear swastikas and hate jews but deny I'm a Nazi. Communists are delusional faggots, go kill another 100million losers.

[Anonymous No.15169168]

>midwit

[Anonymous No.15169201]

>>15169079
He was critiquing the very idea of imagining an ideal society in the future, so what utopia are you charging him with?

[Anonymous No.15169209]

>>15169118
>Ignore that if he did identify any post- modernist it would be shot down because they don't self-identify as a post modernist
okay then anon, you name them. who are these postmodern marxist academics who don't self identify as postmodern. can you name one?

[Anonymous No.15169216]

>>15169168
kek

[Anonymous No.15169223]

>>15169118
>>15169201
yeah, how about read some Marx, whether his criticisms of others or what have you, before believing you internet-tier summations of his thought

[Anonymous No.15169260]

>>15166984
>"BRO, what if we all just like shared everything!? There would be no war, poverty, starvation, or the need for government!"

[Anonymous No.15169360]

>>15169260
>Bruh, you should totally delegate the decisionmaking to the experts, don't get involved in that shit! They know better than us if we need to go to war! Who cares if that guy makes 100 times more money than the guys who actually make the stuff he just sells? He paid for the factory, bro.

[Anonymous No.15169362]

>>15169223
I provided a quote for my position, what have you provided?

[Anonymous No.15169529]

>>15169360
>Managers don't do work

[Anonymous No.15169671]

>>15167120
LMAO

[Anonymous No.15169772]

>>15168631
How many times does the CIA have to destabilise an African country for resources for you to understand that AFRICANS ARE BAD???

[Anonymous No.15169868]

>>15169209
Forgetting your meds today Timmy.

[Anonymous No.15169871]

>>15169079
Brainlet post.

[Anonymous No.15169878]

>>15169868
>if you don't believe in a massive conspiracy of postmodern-neoMarxist academics hiding their true beliefs in order to infect the youth and subvert Western values you must be some sort of crazy person

[Anonymous No.15169923]

The same reason marxists don’t read Bawerk’s critiques.
He’s not there to honestly argue a case and marxism is just a stand-in for other things.

[Anonymous No.15169993]

>>15169878
Gramscian/Alinsky/Marcus-derived deconstruction of all normative non-socialliberal values in academia and pre-college education is hardly a well-kept secret at this point. It wasn’t even when the pseuds started pushing Howard Zinn as a source of anything at all back in the early 2000s.

[Anonymous No.15170001]

>>15167120
why does his face look so fucking fat lmao
>>15168679
it was so awkward when they were patting each other on the back. zizek was trying so hard not to be rude lol

[Anonymous No.15170038]

>>15169993
If you had bothered to learn math instead of all that useless bullshit you might have made something of yourself.

[Anonymous No.15170094]

>>15167419
Wasn't there a guy who investigated the concentrations of Zyklon-B at concentration camps and found that they weren't anywhere near what was needed to kill people?

[Anonymous No.15170101]

>>15169993
>Gramscian/Alinsky/Marcus-derived deconstruction of all normative non-socialliberal values
Do you mean Marcuse? Alinsky is a fucking nobody, no one is reading Alinsky in academia, so much so I can't even comment on what he believes. But neither Gramsci nor Marcuse were anything close to a postmodernist

[Anonymous No.15170113]

>>15169772
Zero, I just looked at the Africans in my country and that’s all it took

[Anonymous No.15170128]

>>15168399
>Being against historical materialism today is akin to being a flat earther

[Anonymous No.15170665]

>>15166984
Why is there so much hate for Jordan Peterson? Is everyone so vehemently dedicated to being a part of some counterculture that they just shit on anyone that's remotely popular?

I really wanted to hate the guy because of everyone spamming him but then actually listened to him and I agreed with 95% of what he says. The absurd part is most of his arguments are pretty straightforward and should be obvious to anyone.

[Anonymous No.15170686]

>>15167005
yowza

[Anonymous No.15170817]

>>15170665
>Why do a bunch of basement dwelling liberal arts majors on welfare hate a person telling them to grow up and act like men?
It is a mystery.

[Anonymous No.15170890]

>>15170665
What is now required is a Petersonian Marxism (or a Marxist Petersonianism). Such a synthesis would be unstoppable. Adorno and Yarvin have attempted it—it remains for us to complete it.

[Anonymous No.15170918]

>>15170665
car go brrrrrrrrr

[Anonymous No.15171070]

>>15170817
Nooo growing up is not the answe! we need socialism so that everyone can become a liberals arts NEET

[Anonymous No.15171084]

>>15171070
>we need socialism so that everyone can become a liberals arts NEET
Well when you put it like that it actually makes socialism sound attractive

[Anonymous No.15171110]

>>15170817
The thing is a lot of the people who're fans of him also fit that description in my book. And Peterson doesn't seem masculine to me.

[Anonymous No.15171738]

>>15166984
Its literally a 2h read.

Imagine being this unbased.

[Anonymous No.15171743]

>>15167760
>This is the average person who attempts to criticize liberalism, capitalism, fascism, etc. They have absolutely no idea about any of it beyond jewish propaganda.

[Anonymous No.15171779]

>>15168532
Goddamn, imagine being Marx and Engels, furiously polemicizing against the past socialists' idealism--even coining the phrase "utopian socialism"-- just to get called a utopian by some pseud on 4chan

[Anonymous No.15171796]

>>15168532
>You don't need to read Marx to
Lay off the pills JP

[Anonymous No.15171804]

>>15171743
I've never understood this shit. Are Jews supposed to be simultaneously our financial overlords AND the strongest proponents of Marxism and Communism?

I guess I shouldn't even attempt to understand it rationally, because clearly you imbeciles don't give a shit about good faith discussion.

[Anonymous No.15172228]

>>15171804
Yes. It's supposed to be a "control both sides" play. That's exactly what the theory is - the end goal is neither Ancapistan OR Communist utopia, but just a planet wide Zionist-Fascist state - "Greater Israel" with the "Chosen" on top and a huge underclass of slaves living in favela-level conditions. Who cares about dialectical materialism if you can successfully capture all the material factors of production & all sides of the historical process to steer it wherever you like? Consider how the European powers used divide & conquer to rule Africa, then apply that at the global scale.

Oh, and those "imbeciles" have explained it more than clearly for a long, long time. You can disagree with it as a proposition, but no more of your "hurr durr, makes no sense" bs. My only disagreement with it that if it wasn't the jews, it'd be someone else - but fundamentally, everybody wants to rule the world.

[Anonymous No.15172250]

>>15166984
People who respect their rivals read what their rivals are reading. Peterson doesn't respect his rivals. People who respect their audiences may also read what their rivals are reading, but it's plain from Peterson's 12 Rules that he doesn't respect his audience.

[Anonymous No.15172263]

>>15167047
>a summary of Marx by some other source
He read Stephen Hicks' summary. The problem there is that Stephen Hicks is completely full of shit.