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/lit/ - Literature

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15154429 No.15154429[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

*Proves Marx right*

>> No.15154434

>>15154429
>T. Redditor

>> No.15154435

>>15154429
Does this mean that technically workers take value away from the current product?

>> No.15154437

>>15154435
No you fucking retard, price =/= value

>> No.15154459

>a rule that segregates "contracts" into month long periods

The commodity didn't lose it's value, a technical rule of the market was taken to an extreme, rate of decay. This will not happen again.

>> No.15154557

>>15154437
care to elaborate? it seems to me like price= value and the price is falling because the lockdown has demand falling and stocks building up and thus the value of the product is dwindling

>> No.15154565

>>15154437
Who would buy something without value?

>> No.15154577

>>15154565
stock brokers

>> No.15154579

>>15154429
it'll backwardate eventually
>>15154557
oil futures -- everything is full up so they want people to just take away the excess.

>> No.15154585

>>15154435
It means that it doesn't matter how much it costs to get the oil if no one buys it, the price will sink, which proves Marx wrong.

>> No.15154586

>>15154565

That's why they get the extra money to buy it, because it literally has negative value.

>> No.15154590

>>15154435

Good point. I guess this is a good time to give the labourers are bigger share of their labour. Pay up wagie!

>> No.15154593

>>15154429
there was nothing to be proven, capitalism hasn't been working for ages now.

>> No.15154594

>>15154593
t. Eric

>> No.15154611

>>15154435
>>15154585
No.
The value of the commodity refers to its relation to other commodities expressed through the common form of the money, but only in the idealized case where the supply and demand meet. This idealozed case is empirically rare.
Value is the point around which the price sticks, but always deviates. This is another of the deviations.
Michael Heinrich's Introduction is not bad. I read it for University.

>> No.15154944

I WARNED YOU ABOUT OVERPRODUCTION BRO, I WARNED YOU

>> No.15154955
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15154955

>>15154429
Nobody is trading that contract.

>> No.15154965

>>15154429
based material dialectic

>> No.15154968

>>15154429
this is a short squeeze in storage capacity, not a lack of demand in oil, you biaised dumbo, you're too lazy to try to understand things and you stop looking further when data seems to favor your dogma. Contracts holders cannot take delivery of their oil due to storage capacity hiting its limit, and try desperately to sell their contracts to avoid taking delivery (because they don't have any storage capacity, as these people are 99% contract brokers and or speculators) These sellers are the stupidest ever as it was known and obvious that with oil production not slowing down enough storage capacities would become a scarce resource.

>> No.15155001

>>15154565
that's what capitalism is about

>> No.15155028

>>15154968
It's useless trying to talk to them. Marxism is a religion.

They will again spend years talking about how corona was a "crisis of capitalism", even though Asian capitalist countries did much better than socialistic European ones. They will also say that capitalism is about to crumble, then look progressively more and more desperate as they are proven wrong yet again by the fact that capitalism is a self-correcting system that has the ability to renovate itself in ways that no one but its organic multidutes of producers and consumers are capable of devising.

>> No.15155032

>>15155028
Name a single marxist european country

>> No.15155048

It proves the law of supply and demand actually.
Nobody what's to buy something and you have lots of it it becomes worthless

>> No.15155072

>>15155028
>socialist european countries

>> No.15155073

>>15155032
France

>> No.15155076

>>15154968
If you think that makes capitalism look good, you're delusional.

>> No.15155080

>>15154968
But isn't the lack of storage space being caused by the lack of demand? Since they are forced to stow them in storage rather than sell them due to lack of demand?

>> No.15155083

>>15155073
Wrong. Try again

>> No.15155093

>>15155028
The country that got hit the worst, and had the worst policies against the pandemic, is the mecca of capitalism.

>> No.15155112

>>15155032
East Germany 2

>> No.15155115

>>15155093
>China is the mecca of capitalism

>> No.15155116

>>15155112
Holy shit, they filmed a sequel???

>> No.15155122

>>15155093
Spain? Italy?

>> No.15155128

>>15155076
I'm just exposing facts and cogs.

>>15155080
Ultimately yes oil demand is slowing down. How is this fact related to OP opinion remains to be explained. Who can stand this level of intellectual mediocrity ?

>> No.15155130

>>15155032
name a single european country with a free market without massive state intervention (aka socialist)

>> No.15155132

>>15155116
They dissolved the people and elected another

>> No.15155141

>>15155130
European countries are barely dirigist, and dirigisme is not socialism in any way.

>> No.15155194

>>15155115
>Thinking this isn't true

>> No.15155209

>>15155130
>if a country is not anarchist then it's communist
Great retort, can hardly come up with a comeback

>> No.15155216

>>15155130
>socialism is state intervention
t. reddit-tier brainlet

>> No.15155238

>>15155028
>"crisis of capitalism", even though Asian capitalist countries did much better than socialistic European ones.
Huh? What countries are you talking about and what do you mean "did much better"? Number of deaths? The economy?

>> No.15155255

>>15155238
He probably means South Korea and Japan. South Korea handled it particularly effectively.
However, I don't know how he considers South Korea capitalist if state intervention is socialism when the economics of South Korea is based on chaebols which are in quite direct relations with the state. By his stupid metric, South Korea is the socialist state, and Europe is capitalistic.

>> No.15155279

>>15155209
notice how i said "massive" and not "any" state intervention.
also socialism is a sliding scale and not a hard yes or no, you dont have to go full ussr to undermine the free market

>> No.15155282

Show me a state in which goods are produced for use and not profit. Seriously, just one single state.

>> No.15155288

>>15155279
>socialism is when the government does things
holy fuck kill yourself retard

>> No.15155295

>>15155279
>socialism is a sliding scale
never ceases to amaze me how pseuds like you just make up random shit to define socialism

>> No.15155299

>>15155282
Best Korea?

>> No.15155301

Can someone tell me how to start reading economics? I'm ashamed to say that I am an adult and I have no idea about anything related to economics. I'm looking for a book that gives me basic fundamentals of economics. I am from Iran (shithole) so English only please.

>> No.15155304

>>15155279
This kind of reasoning might work on brainlets from /pol/ or reddit but not here. Literally just grasping at straws

>> No.15155308

>>15155301
Never insult the dignity of your own country. Who will defend it, if you will not?

>> No.15155318

>>15155308
It's a shithole because of mollahs doing dumbshit and empowering thugs (basiji). I will never defend them. Only a democratic, secular Persia.

>> No.15155323

>>15154435
Yes. All arguments to the contrary are cope. This is literally just the market signalling that demand has plummeted (for extremely obvious reasons) and thus that at this point, continuing production actually introduces negative value.

Only by detaching price from value (which is conveniently unfalsifiable rhetoric nonsense) can you claim otherwise. As it stands, this is the market working as intended. People aren't buying oil, so you had better stop producing it until they start again.

>> No.15155335

>>15154429
>supply and demand
>low demand of crude oil due to mass quarantines means market needs less of it
it relates to marx how?

>> No.15155339
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15155339

*Proves Marx right*

>> No.15155343

>>15155318
>democratic, secular Persia.
so mcdonalds iran edition

>> No.15155353

>>15155299
No, North Korea is a perfect example of state capitalism.
>>15155301
Depends entirely on what you hope to learn about. Economics is a rather wide subject and discussion of economics is even wider. Also, it is difficult to gain a layman's understanding of modern academic economics. Many if not most economic positions and arguments you see recited online or in other forms of discourse are entirely outdated.

I've found one of the best books for people like you just trying to understand the basics is Naked Economics by Charles Wheelan.

https://www.amazon.com/Naked-Economics-Undressing-Science-Revised/dp/0393337642

From there you can go in any number of directions if you desire further reading.
>>15155339
Based
>>15155343
t. american who has no idea what the situation in Iran is

>> No.15155354

>>15155343
Ive been to mcdonalds its not bad. but i dont think it would displace the local fast food shops here.

>> No.15155355

>>15155339
how? it just shows the trend with both labor regulations and higher cost of production due to specialized industries

>> No.15155358

>>15155323
>so you had better stop producing it
The point is they better shouldn´t. Ceasing production will cause damage.

Besides this thing is first and foremost geopolitical shenanigans between Saudis and Russians, economics are secondary.

>> No.15155367

>>15155353
Thanks man.

I just want to understand banks, loans, interest rates, international finance etc.... Im not looking for stuff like "capitalism > communism" but more about HOW things currently work. Like how does economics operate in modern society. What can/can't governments do. What do banks do. More facts, not emotion.

>> No.15155368

>>15155353
>No, North Korea is a perfect example of state capitalism.
The state is producing for the purpose of satisfying it´s need for defense and for the use of it´s people. They aren´t generating profit.

>> No.15155369

>>15155355
Marx's theory of the tendency of the rate of profit to decline forms the backbone of the assumption that capitalism is "doomed to collapse," although modern economics and Marxists alike have downplayed its importance.

>> No.15155373

>>15155367
>>15155353

also books with technical definitions like:

"Quantitative easing is when....
"Loans are when.....

>> No.15155375

>>15155367
good luck with that because communists are loud mouth retards these days. check out that book by Sowell though, "Basic Economics".

>> No.15155384

>>15155073
I live in France. Our president is literally a former employee of the Rothschild bank and he still reasons like one.

>> No.15155387

>>15155369
I don't see how it's collapsing, there are clear factors why profit margins decreased and it's mostly related to growth of specialized, technical industries and higher labor regulations.

>theory of the tendency of the rate of profit to decline
This is why Marx is such a complete brainlet. How is it a "theory" or something innovative to think of the fact that over time a business can lose profits if it loses standing. I swear Marx was one of the most braindead cult leaders in world history

>> No.15155390

>>15155130
There is massive state intervention in the US too, as there have been in any big capitalist country in the past 150 year.

>> No.15155397

>>15155369
I know Michael Heinrich called it, along with pauperisation, a mistake that does not follow directly from Marx's system, but through the addition of a false external premise.

>> No.15155402
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15155402

>>15154611
value is a concept created by bored bourgeois between 2 orgies

>> No.15155409

>>15155375
This is probably the most respected textbook. But it´s more about the science of political economy rather than "how things work". Might be better to start there.
https://archive.org/details/lccn_00102499

>> No.15155411

>>15155080
the lack of demand comes from political choice to halt demand

>> No.15155416

>>15155411
there was no political choice to "halt demand" its a ramification. There was no decision passed to "halt demand", its a consequence of quarantine which was a political action taken during a health crisis.

>> No.15155425

>marxcels' understanding of oil contracts

>> No.15155431

>>15155416
people are forbidden to meet, especially to meet for work

>> No.15155432

>>15155387
> How is it a "theory" or something innovative to think of the fact that over time a business can lose profits if it loses standing.
that's not marx's theory

>>15155397
others disagree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_single-system_interpretation

>> No.15155438

>>15155431
"forbidden to meet, especially to meet for work"
Wrong. There was no political decision to halt the demand of oil. The demand of oil decreased as people are now in quarantine due to the response of a health crisis not a political choice to stop oil consumption

>> No.15155441

>>15155375
I just want you to know that I, the person who wrote the comment he's replying to, consider myself a Marxist. I don't consider the idpol-obsessed idealist morons you're referencing to be communists, nor do any of the actual Marxists I know. At best they're radical liberals.

>>15155373
If you have time, I can explain basic concepts like this to you if you have other questions.

>Quantitative easing
QE is when a central bank buys Government securities (mainly bonds) from banks in order to put more money into the economy. This is primarily done in periods where the financial market is "freezing up" due to an economic downturn, meaning that banks are reluctant to lend out money or do not have enough liquidity to do so. This leads me into
>Loans
Loans are critical to a properly functioning market economy. No company or government will always have enough money on hand to finance everything they want to finance, and most people do not want to spend all their money the moment they get it. Thus, some people demand money and some people supply money to and from the financial market. Banks facilitate these transactions.

>>15155387
First of all, in the time of Marx, the rate of profit was and had been on an upward trend. Your definition of the TRPF is also completely wrong, not sure where you read
>the fact that over time a business can lose profits if it loses standing
or whether you just pulled it out of your ass, but that's not at all what Marx wrote.

>>15155397
Yeah, it is very hard to read Marx and come to the assumption that he thought the transition from capitalism was in any way inevitable.

>>15155411
Braindead take

>> No.15155443

>>15155432
"Proponents of the temporal-single system interpretation of Marx's value theory claim that the supposed inconsistencies are actually the result of misinterpretation;"

MY god marxists are fucking cultists.

>> No.15155447
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15155447

>>15155353
>No, North Korea is a perfect example of state capitalism.
NOOOOOOOO its not real socialism unless its my perfect imaginary system that will never exist !

>> No.15155464
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15155464

>>15155447
>A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless

>> No.15155465

>>15155447
It's impossible don't debate with Marxists. They are cultists. Read the link a Marxist posted himself related to his theories. They debate it as if Marx were a Messiah. It's totally bizarre.

>> No.15155469

>>15155464
The case was for "production for use instead of profit", not about communism.

>> No.15155473

>>15155028

The country that did the best by far in asia is socialist (vietnam). There arent many capitalist countries in asia and the ones that are got fucking rocked (south korea as an example). Centralization obviously is advantageous in health crises, you dont even have to be a gommie to see that. Its shit for an economy though

>> No.15155476

>>15155464
>common ownership of means of production
This right here is exactly why Marxism is pointless and impossible. This isn't mindless Industrial Era production lines anymore, industry is getting more and more specialized. Your left redundant, and it's not surprising Marxist revolts usually include mass killings of intellectuals and promotion of retarded "agrarian" reforms. Look at Vietnam, they had to cancel ALL their collective ownership over the means of production of agriculture because it was killing everyone. Just move on with your life leave the cult

>> No.15155481

>>15155473
>in asia is socialist, vietnam
>vietnam rejected all socialist policy related to tehir primary industry: agriculture
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20454780?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents
Marxist cult go debate more inane "theory"

>> No.15155488

>>15155476
Just for my own amusement, can you define a "Marxist revolt" for me? Thanks.

>> No.15155493

>>15155473
>nt many capitalist countries in asia and the ones that are got fucking rocked (south korea as an example). Centralization obviously is advantageous in health crises
Not really considering how poor the Soviet Union responded to almost every single "crisis", health or otherwise that it encountered. Too much bureaucracy, too much Party cultists, too little actual responsibility.

>> No.15155496

>>15155411
retard

>> No.15155499

>>15155488
Revolution by people who call themselves Marxists. Last succesful case: Nepal 2006

>> No.15155506

>>15155488
>tries to shift away from the fact that all of the Marxist cult policies are inherent failures and all its followers are braindead worshippers
Marxist "revolts" take many forms in development but the end result is consistently the same. Western Marxists will never be successful because they rely heavily on immigrant support which quickly turns their back on them for cultural self-interests. Plus you lack Frontoviks and a mass of uneducated peasants to manipulate and send to their deaths.

>> No.15155514

Marxism does not work.

Communism does not work.

Socialism does not work.

Capitalism works.

>> No.15155524

>>15155499
>success
>relies heavily on US aid and investment
lol

>> No.15155531

>>15155514
>Capitalism works
>this thread

>> No.15155532

>some minor technicality in secondary derivatives market proves that marx was right

>> No.15155539

>>15155532
more accurately
>some minor technicality in secondary derivatives market allows me to make a bait thread

>> No.15155544

>>15155493
>Not really considering how poor the Soviet Union responded to almost every single "crisis", health or otherwise that it encountered.
You mean like to the greatest invasion in human history? Where they managed to succesfully evacuate industry from the conquered zone and fully mobilize and militarize their society?

Also not exactely USSR, but socialist Yugoslavia did remarkably well during 1972 smallpox outbreak, if we are talking epidemics. IIRC Soviets had simmiliar event, but I can´t recall when.

>> No.15155553

>>15155524
>Marxist revolution was funded by US
Huh?

>> No.15155554

>>15155544
>soviet industry would have single-handedly been able to support itself without the massive amounts of foreign imported supplies via lend lease
favorite vehicle of soviet officers was the US Willy's Jeep.

>> No.15155559

>>15155553
wrong. typical manipulation of language. Nepal wants the Millennium Challenge Corporation for gibs from the US. They're also supporting the disaster of the Meduro government in Venezuela.

>> No.15155564

>>15155559
I don´t know what are you smoking anon, but I was asking for proofs that US sponsored the Nepalese revolution.

>> No.15155571

>>15155514
>Capitalism works.
that's why us is the most depressed country in the world

>> No.15155572

>>15155564
i didn't make that claim you just made that up in your own head. I said Nepalese communists want gibs from the US and are relying on US aid

>> No.15155577

>>15155571
Yes it's the economy that's causing the depression not the crippling social issues, multiculturalism, media manipulation, and materialism.

>> No.15155583

>>15155577
All consequences of capitalism and the absurdly hyperconsummerist culture forced onto americans

>> No.15155584

>>15155577
>implying the culture isn't the byproduct of economic conditions

>> No.15155585

>>15155554
Britain received 3 times as much supplies as Soviet union, without pulling anywhere near the same weight. Also the key year of BOB was 1941 and preventing the whole system from collapsing as Hitler envisioned, which was before 95% of LL arrived.

>> No.15155599

>>15155572
And? How´s that related to the Nepalese civil war? Did it retroactively won it for the reds?

>> No.15155605

>>15155584
>actually believes economic influences are the dominant influence in culture
hahahahah, sure they influence it no doubt but suggesting this the main factor is simply ridiculous. Look at Communist countries because that is great example. the economic system was fused with the New Culture (e.g. socialist realism) that atemmpted to create a whole new culture but it failed miserably of course because economics are not the only dictation of human expression.

>>15155583
>and marxism won't be hyperconsumermist at all
Marxist 101 from someone in ex-soviet country:
>Government buys main manufacture product at below market value, sells back to people at below market value
>Sells consumer goods at insanely high prices.
>???
>Collapse.

>> No.15155607
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15155607

>>15155584
>>15155583
>every single problem in the world is economic and can therefore be fixed by communism
this is your mind on marx

>> No.15155611

>>15155599
because the revolution didn't accomplish anything productive, they want that Us capitalist gibs money

>> No.15155617

>>15155584
Read Spinoza. Both culture and economic conditions are simultaneous expressions of the thing itself, or in Spinoza's terminology, Substance.

>> No.15155619

>>15155585
>shifts it away from USSR
hahahahahah
>communism works because we took LESS stuff from the US than the UK!!
LOL
Commies LOVED the American made P-39 Airacobra too. Not too much all that ammo, blankets, boots, linens, etc....

>> No.15155621

>>15155583
>hyperconsummerist culture forced onto americans
*forced by

May Marx (PBUH) forgive my ethnocentrism, but those people must be eradicated.

>> No.15155626

>>15155607
I didn't say this. I said that capitalists can't even admit the shortcomings of their failed system. Literally citizens being denied healthcare in a pandemic, people falling down and dying in the middle of NY.

>> No.15155631

>>15155611
>because the revolution didn't accomplish anything productive
That´s completely irrelevant. Revolutions are victorius by seizing power, not by "accomplishing anything productive

>> No.15155634

>>15155626
>capitalists can't even admit the shortcomings of their failed system
>is an actual Marxist
Didn't work in the East, didn't work inVietnam, didn't work in China, move on with your life.

>> No.15155638

>>15155619
>No counterargument
OK, looler

>> No.15155641

>>15155631
>Revolutions are victorious about seizing power
>maintaining legacy isn't important at al!
US revolution was incredibly successful by all measures. Nepalese was a disaster, Vietnamese a disaster (they even slaughter Cambodian commies haha so much for workers revolution of the world) Mao killed everyone in China that wasn't his sycophant.

>> No.15155646

>>15155638
Indeed I lol'd at you. Without lend-lease USSR would not have survived. Everyone knows this except some Putinist radicals.

>> No.15155652

>>15155641
>hurdur something completely unrelated
OK, I understand. You are retarded.

>> No.15155656

>>15155652
>it's unrelated because i don't like it
No wonder why Marxist societies fail the only thing on your mind is shooting people LOL

>> No.15155658

>>15155634
Where did capitalism have a positive effect, besides the mansions your jew overlords live in?

>> No.15155662

>>15155658
>using JEws as an example who were foundational in Communist movements in the US with neoconservative being a Jewish off-shoot of Trotskyism
nice slide attempt.

>> No.15155668

>>15155646
>“If the Western Allies had not provided equipment and invaded northwest Europe [our emphasis], Stalin and his commanders might have taken twelve to eighteen months longer to finish off the Wehrmacht,”

t. David M. Glantz, American military historian

>> No.15155671

>>15155662
>the richest are even richer and the poor have grown and are even poorer, but hey, it's ok!

>> No.15155675

>>15155656
OK, explain does the statement "revolutionaries won the civil war" change by anything that happens after the civil war ends.

>> No.15155682

>>15155658
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Kristol
Neocons = trotskyites.
CPUSA leadership was predominant Jewish. don't slide.

>>15155668
That's a mighty assumption. If there was no new front opened in the West and no lend-lease where is the evidence to support the thesis that the USSR could have recovered? German industry would have been completely unchecked because of no Wetsern Allied bombing raids and manpower would be sent Eastwards.

>> No.15155690

>>15155675
Winning a "war" isn't success of a Revolution brainlet. A revolution is multi-faceted and is fully successful when it succesfully transitions into a productive new form of state. The Nepalese are just resorting to the usual Marxist entitlement of demanding gibs, ironically, from the United States. unsurprising though look at Vietnam where the colectivization of agriculture failed so bad the government stopped it entirely and encouraged private ownership and enterprise lol

>> No.15155695

>>15155671
>but in marxism us Party elite will be wealthy with access to consumer goods and all the proletariat will have their goods confisicated by the state at under market value prices and resold without profit for themselves and then forced to pay ABOVE market value price for all consumer items
>surely there will be no corruption here

>> No.15155734

>>15154429
Try reading Marx if you want to make decent shitposts OP. The amount of labor to produce crude oil has consistently decreased over time. Price fluctuations alone prove nothing.

>> No.15155741

>>15155690
>Winning a "war" isn't success of a Revolution brainlet.
By definition it is.

>> No.15155747

>>15155130
By that definition the US is one of the most socialist countries on earth.

>> No.15155787

>>15155671
>>15155671
>poor have grown
only because poor people still fornicate. poor people create their won burden, but prefer to shame the rich

>> No.15155799
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15155799

>>15155682
>German industry would have been completely unchecked
German industry was rapidly growing up to late 1944, bombing only became relevant when war was already won.
>If there was no new front opened in the West and no lend-lease where is the evidence to support the thesis that the USSR could have recovered?
Ask Glantz. But it´s pretty clear that after Moscow, Germans could no longer win.
>manpower would be sent Eastwards.
Where there was already the vast majority of it.

>> No.15155816

>>15155787
>People grow poor therefore they shouldn´t reproduce
>Wait, why don´t we have enough people in their productive years?
>Guess we gotta import more Arabs
Liberal logic at it´s peak.

>> No.15155831

>>15155402
I wish I was a Jew, honestly.

>> No.15155835

>>15155831
I'm a Jew and I wish I weren't.

>> No.15155843

>>15155402
Liverpool is in England broheim.

>> No.15155861

>>15155028
It’s almost like a millenarian cult where they ramble about the utopia to come

>> No.15155865

>>15155571
No its not.

>> No.15155875

>>15155473
>Vietnam
>Socialist
Anon I...

>> No.15155892

>>15154429
So will somebody pay me to take the oil off their hands?

That seems really, really dumb.

>> No.15155914

>>15155835
Why? Israel has a future, or at least works to secure one. As an Amerimutt I have zero sense of heritage or common ground with other Americans. It's no surprise that kind of society is full of people exploiting one another at every turn.

>> No.15156377

>>15155634
Worked in all those places

>> No.15156388

>>15155875
Vietnam is Socialist and it is working great there

>> No.15156404

>>15155843
She's a kike with a safe walled home in Israel when Liverpool gets overrun.

>> No.15156420

>>15154435
No, it means storing oil is more expensive than producing it, because demand is low, because the world's economy is largely shut down.

>> No.15156428

>>15154437
Labour theory of value is a cringe moralistic theory not a realistic or pragmatic one.

>> No.15156439

>>15156428
>moralistic
>realistic
>pragmatic
What do these words even mean in conjucture with descriptive theory?

>> No.15156441

>>15156388
Vietnam is capitalist. It has commodity-producing industry based on wage labour.

>>15156428
LTV is completely amoral.

>> No.15157023
File: 31 KB, 300x290, A47DC6D6-3115-45CE-881E-E3866B3EE795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15157023

>all of this shitflinging between muh capitalism and communism
Keep buying into these political and economic illusions, retards, technical necessity will dictate what the true path will be every single time. Read Ellul

>> No.15157035

>>15156441
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_Vietnam

>> No.15157468

Bump

>> No.15157726

>>15156428
>2 weeks of no work
>economy is crumbling
>capitalists urging "back to work"

They still deny labour creates value. lmao

>> No.15157827

>>15157726
>it takes workers to make things
Wow so profound. Praise Marx

>> No.15157832

>>15155279
>socialism is a sliding scale
where did this meme come from? is it just socdem cope in the face of capitalist realism or what

>> No.15157854

>>15157827
And he explains workers don't enjoy the things they do proportionaly to their work. Praise again.

>> No.15157875

>>15157023
wow you must be very wise and not just a socdem or third positionist

>> No.15158072
File: 143 KB, 937x937, hklcdjt60y531.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15158072

>>15157854
>I don't like working
Amazing! very profound! a true science!

>> No.15158175

>>15158072
as profund as your irony.

>> No.15158215

>itt pseudo intellectuals

>> No.15158229

>>15155323
The Russians literally can't stop producing. Once you dig a oil well in Siberia it will freeze and close off if you stop pumping oil from it.
Stopping means having to dig another role, and that's expensive as shit.

>> No.15158248

>>15155130
Absolute free markets are a fiction.

>> No.15158267

>>15154434

ya sisters ass

>> No.15158333

This is literally just supply and demand. Something Marx didn't understand

>> No.15158356
File: 1.07 MB, 735x1000, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15158356

>>15155301

>> No.15158364

This has been going on with garbage for ages. You have to pay people to take it

>> No.15158388

>>15158333
but he did.

>> No.15158398

>>15158333
sure big players on war has nothing to do.

>> No.15158405

>Line go down
Capitalism did this
>Line go up
Capitalism did this
>Stub toe
Capitalism did this
>Set up party vanguard with the help of money from abroad
Capitalism did this
>Collapses during peace time
Capitalism did this

>> No.15158504

>>15155032
>>15155130
Marxism, as a belief system, has to be understood much more broadly than Orthodox Marxism. In a very literal sense, it doesn't quite work to call Fabian systems Marxist, as the Fabian approach developed in direct contrast to Marxist communism as it pushed ever eastward. That said, Fabianism is hardly an ideological disagreement with Marx, and is in essence nothing more than a political stance which holds almost all the same essential beliefs about the world except that revolution must be violent. Today, too, obviously, the perfect dialect between oppressor/oppressed remains essential, while labor//capital has increasingly appeared outmoded, at least within a given nation-state. Bearing all this in mind, however, we consistently see that the readers and evangelists of Marx almost always, in democratic systems, vote Fabian and hardly ever (at least anymore) directly agitate in favor of a hard revolution. If we take to be Marxist only those who accept every idea of Marx as divine write, then not even Lenin, Stalin, or Mao can be called Marxist. It would seem then, especially if we analyze from a philosophical history perspective, that we ought to call Marxist all subsequent ideologies which are dependent on Marx's particular position within Left Hegelians. Marx's take on dialectic within a framework of historical materialism cannot be seen as truly unique; however, it is practically impossible to separate the development of any related theories from his towering dominance. Given Marx's own perspective which seems to strangely fuse a Hobbesian and Rousseauian social Darwinism, it would only seem right that all communism and post-communism today be recognized as Marxist, at least due to their common ancestry.