/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15139460]

i am genuinely emotionally devastated after finishing this book. so, so breathtakingly sad. i have a chaos in my heart

[Anonymous No.15139466]

>>15139460
is it about love or heartbreaks? I can't relate to those haha

[Anonymous No.15139469]

>>15139466
no. it's about the complete erosion of a beautiful soul into trauma-induced braindead idiocy. his designs collapsed, human nature prevailed. the hideous species we are

[Anonymous No.15139480]

>>15139469
Yeah we all die better enjoy it while you can

[Anonymous No.15139482]

>>15139460
Very sad ending. What do you think was the ultimate cause of Myshkin's failure? I'm partial to the explanation that he was like the Dead Christ painting that he and Rogozhin look at, a good man but ultimately human and powerless.

[Anonymous No.15139498]

>>15139482
yeah that explanation rings true to me too. the poison of human nature is like gravity, as a collective we are inexorably bound for pain and destruction. i think his failure was inevitable yeah, he was powerless. he looked to the good of man with trust and his innocent nature, and he was exploited and had his face spat on. the same way that christ was nailed to the cross, he was preordained to be brought to ruin. look at the world around us at present, the political climate, the tensions between ideologies like a broiling cauldron of psychotic rage.

in addition, i also empathise deeply with prince myshkin and i myself am regularly faced with these facts. it's a very sad world

[Anonymous No.15139526]

>>15139460
(OP) heartbreaking

[Anonymous No.15139531]

>>15139498
Have you read any other Dostoevsky? I've been going through all his works pretty slowly (Idiot last year, Demons this year) but it's my understanding he tries to tackle exactly this kind of hopelessness in later novels that I've yet to read.

The main character in Notes from Underground seems to be faced with exactly the same issues, but fails equally despite being basically the opposite of Myshkin. I don't think this is a contradiction, but probably part of a larger point about the futility of both good and evil in a hopeless world.

That being said, Raskolnikov finds redemption in the end of C&P by paying for his crime and believing in the resurrection of the dead as told by the story of Lazarus through Sonya.

[Anonymous No.15139548]

>>15139531
yes i read the brothers karamazov which had a very hopeful ending, and of course was the final line so to speak of dosto's thesis of life. the character of alyosha is i guess a version of the prince who has been through the crucible and emerged a man who is ready to countenance the bad in the world but instead of being eviscerated gains scars which strengthen his constitution and allow him to live his life.

i guess maybe i should have read TBK last to cure this depression but yeah. C&P is a brilliant novel and i love it but i think it's a lot more lightweight when it comes to these existential issues of uncomprehendable magnitude

[Anonymous No.15139555]

>>15139531
i think it's probably a result of the fact when he wrote the idiot he was in a very depressed state of mind, at his lowest ebb quite possibly, while when he wrote TBK he was happier and probably more wise. hopefully in the same vein as dostoyevsky as i get older and wiser i also will gain an insight into a higher truth which makes coping without holding on with a white-knuckle grip a bit more imaginable.

[Anonymous No.15139559]

>>15139460

Myshkin is someone trying to be Christ without actually being Christ.

It's a bit like trying to jump across a canyon without quite being a good enough jumper.

Nastassya is the quintessence of womanhood.

[Anonymous No.15139560]

>>15139498
Good times are coming though. The fall of civilization will lead to the dawn of a new mythic age.

[Anonymous No.15139568]

>>15139531
The Dream of a Ridiculous Man and The Brothers Karamazov are about his solution to this problem.

[Anonymous No.15139579]

>>15139560
all i see is more pain and suffering on the horizon. the same way that we are allowed peace when we pass over into the realm of the dead then perhaps if civilisation really does collapse in on itself as a species we will like a flat-lined heartbeat monitor return to an absence of pain, and of course pleasure.

>>15139559
i disagree, i know a lot of women who are good

[Anonymous No.15139583]

>>15139579

Nastassya is good.

[Anonymous No.15139604]

>>15139583
i don't know if i agree. she is a product of her pain and suffering of course through being an orphan and being molested as a child but i feel like you run out of credit at a certain point. she was not evil, but she was not good. she was incredibly flawed and a microcosm of our self-destructive nature, of course. like the 100k roubles in the fireplace that gets licked with the blue flame and setd alight, she was destined for self-immolation and there was no putting it out.

she abused myshkin's good nature and stamped all over the timid hope and innocence of agyla because of her greed

[Anonymous No.15139605]

>>15139568
Damn, I have to grab my copy of his short works and read The Dream of a Ridiculous Man

[Anonymous No.15139615]

>>15139604
I think this goes to the point >>15139559
was making about Myshkin not being Christ. He was a good man and wanted to redeem Nastassya, but was unable to do so.

[Anonymous No.15140089]

Do I have to be a christcuck to enjoy dosto? Every post i see about these russian authors seems like people masturbating to how they think humans are really terrible and the only hope is a bunch of desert fairy tales

[Anonymous No.15140124]

>>15140089
they’re acting like the women they hate

[Anonymous No.15140814]

>>15140089
Just read Tolstoy instead.

[Anonymous No.15141271]

bump. any thoughts guys? i love this book

[Anonymous No.15141305]

>>15140089
How about you stop projecting and just see for yourself. If the commentary on human nature is sincere and genuine then what’s the problem? No one is forcing you to agree with proposed solutions.

[Anonymous No.15141401]

>be me
>extremely empathetic and naive to the core
>see things for what they should be in an ideal world rather than for what they actually are in the real world
>unironically fall for a girl’s typical schtick of “my uncle molested me and my whole family hates me etc.”
>decided to join in a band with said person
>spend three years of early twenties trying to live up to expectations and the vision of someone else
>make the decision to leave the band while not even half way through this book
>like a mountain of my shoulders
Sam Hyde was right, being able to cut out toxic people truly is a super power and The Idiot is an example of what can happen to you if you don’t grow a pair to do so.

[Anonymous No.15141420]

>>15141401
interesting story, thanks for sharing

[Anonymous No.15141879]

>>15140089
No, even if you don’t agree with his philosophy he’s still a great storyteller. And it could be a worthwhile mental exercise to see if you have solutions for the problems he addresses that don’t involve religion.
Camus was an atheist and half of his big essays are spent talking about how cool Dosto was.

[Anonymous No.15141922]

>>15139498
also identified myself a lot with the prince.
but also with Rodion de C&P, like if the characters were extreme forms of the same type of personality
also this, i exploded with this
‘Tomorrow morning, I shall be at the green bench in the park at seven, and shall wait there for you. I have made up my mind to speak to you about a most important matter which closely concerns yourself.‘P.S.—I trust that you will not show this note to anyone. Though I am ashamed of giving you such instructions, I feel that I must do so, considering what you are. I therefore write the words, and blush for your simple character.‘P.P.S.—It is the same green bench that I showed you be-fore. There! aren’t you ashamed of yourself? I felt that it was necessary to repeat even that information.’

[Anonymous No.15141945]

It’s Dosto’s worst book by a mile

[Anonymous No.15142043]

>>15141922
Same here man, same here. I identify man. I feel like in real life if someone who has the potential to be as empathetic, sensitive and kind as Myshkin, it's inevitable that on the other side of this coin they will also reach the depths of nihilism and anger with humanity as Raskolnikov. I posit that a figure like Myshkin in real life is almost impossible; if you possess the intelligence that he has then there's no getting around the fact that that level of insight into your fellow human beings and the world around you will lead you, possibly, down bad paths. I know for a fact in my life in the past I have been afflicted with spiritual torment in the same vein as raskol; i think this is a manifestation of the phenomenon I previously articulated.

And yes, assuming by exploded you mean were deeply touched by it, then I agree. She really was a beautiful, innocent soul. I actually agree with Pavlovich's description of Myshkin as a spiritual entity who wasn't capable of reciprocating the love she felt for him in that way. He was only capable of loving like Christ (I'm aware this isn't an original or profound observation).

>>15141945
Why? it is baggy at parts but I feel the diversions and digressions which don't always land add brush strokes to the magnificent canvas of a flawed but beautiful masterpiece. I honestly prefer The Idiot to TBK. I don't know why; TBK is an objectively better book but I feel like the smaller scope of The Idiot makes it seem more personal, conducing a greater depth of connection and feeling to the events of the narrative and the emotional lurches all of these lost and conflicted souls experience. I fell in love with prince Myshkin and his fate at the novels conclusion made me feel something akin to if I had my ex-girlfriend shot dead before my eyes, it was unironically very traumatic. I didn't connect to any characters in TBK to that level, although of course I loved them all, their virtuous qualities and their flaws.

[Anonymous No.15142368]

B

[Anonymous No.15142962]

>>15139480
I've always intended to enjoy my death to the fullest.

[Anonymous No.15143065]

>>15141401
>Sam Hyde was right