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/lit/ - Literature

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15133478 No.15133478 [Reply] [Original]

What system of government would he support?

>> No.15133499

Communism

>> No.15133509

A Neo-liberal establishment critical of racism, sexism, xenophobia, and specism.

>> No.15133511

>>15133478
Absolutely liberal capitalism.

>> No.15134117

>>15133478
Whichever one had the highest potential to create the most amount of conflict on earth.

>> No.15134428

what's wrong with his hairline?

>> No.15134462

>>15133509
based

>> No.15134467

Ancap

>> No.15134488

>>15133478
Retarded question.

>> No.15134623

>>15133478
National Socialism

>> No.15134632

>>15134623
unironically this

>> No.15134642

>>15133499
this

>> No.15134654

>>15133478
Monarchy. He loved the idea of nobility suppressing the inferior, unwashed masses.

>> No.15134660

>>15134117
So one with lots of youtube make up and beauty channels?

>> No.15134669

>>15134428
Nothing.

>> No.15134739

why did he have such a black looking nose?

>> No.15134758

>>15134739
cause he a real nigga dropping fire tapes

>> No.15134782

>>15134623
Retard
>>15133509
This except for the sexism

>> No.15134788

Cognitive aristocracy, a variant of meritocracy where the wisest rule. Essentially Plato's Republic. Where those who have the audacity to forge new values project there will upon the herd and shape new eventualities.

>> No.15134796

>>15134623
But N was fiercly anti-nationalist and anti-anti-semitic.

>> No.15134797

He literally wrote in first half of his very first book that a disengagement from politics was a precursor to his philosophy.

>> No.15134799

>>15134788
>there
:| their
To Nitche might does not make right, but the will to power is absolute.

>> No.15135259

>>15133478
ancap

>> No.15135269

>>15134623
idk... he hated Wagner's philosophy and Hitler was probably more influenced by Wagner than anyone else

>> No.15135283

>>15135269
This might’ve been true but I often wonder if people who say this have actually read his books. The Birth Tragedy is basically dedicated to Wagner and contains NatSoc undertones.

>> No.15135311

>>15135283
but he also later writes how Birth of Tragedy was a mistake. not to mention his essay 'nietzsche contra wagner'
all that being said, he would've supported National Socialist Germany because Hitler was an Ubermensch

>> No.15135490
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15135490

>>15134660
The one that takes it a step further than that.

>> No.15135542

>>15134654
un ironically this

>> No.15135553

>>15134799
go back to twitter retarded faggot

>> No.15135556

>>15135553
Brainless derelict. You exist to be commanded.

>> No.15135559

>>15133478
Any political affiliation that would oppose niggers

>> No.15135571

>>15133478
Aristocracy, as he says in his books.

>> No.15135582

>>15135283
Later in life, he distanced himself from Wagner.

>>15135311
He never wrote that Birth of Tragedy was a mistake, only that it was rife with the naivety of youth, or something to that extent. He may have been referring to the Wagnerian influences in the book, but I don't think he specified.

>> No.15135610

>>15133478
He'd vote Byedon

>> No.15135682

Virtual reality mass containment allowing for the eternal reoccurence of prestiging in Call of Duty 99 times before transvaluating all conventional forms of morality in the vagina arms of our life reaffirming ubermensch birthing sexbots.

>> No.15135820

>>15134654
Wrong. He said he didn't even deem Wilhelm worthy of cleaning his (Nietzsche's) shoes or something to that effect.

>> No.15135870

Didn't he describe it in Antichrist, though? Some form of caste system. A ruling elite of intellectuals, a warrior caste to upkeep the order, and the unwashed masses who are only good at one thing.

>> No.15135896

>>15135820
He didn't like Wilhelm but he still idolised ubermensch emperors like Napoleon and Caesar

>> No.15135908

>>15134796
no, he wasn't, he was anti-semitic by modern standards, he just didn't like Jew-obsession.

>> No.15135919

He would have be an Italian Fascist.

>> No.15135937

>>15135896
of course, what i meant is that he didn't necessarily support monarchism or aristocracy in and of itself

>> No.15135948
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15135948

>>15133478
Anything tyrannical. He wouldn't be able to tell you what policies this tyranny should pursue because he didn't understand shit about economics.

>> No.15135960

Nietzsche, and believing there is any meaning or merit to supporting a system of government, are utterly opposed

>> No.15136014

>>15135311
>>15135582
Yeah, I’m aware that he distanced himself. I’m just noting that in Birth of Tragedy he really praises Wagner which no doubt had a big influence on Germany and maybe even Adolf Hitler who was a devout Wagnerian himself. I just think his emphasis on the revivification of German culture and art probably had a big impact on National Socialist ideologues. So in that way, I think his writing probably did have an influence on Nazism whether he intended it to or not. At the same time, there’s a line in the Birth of Tragedy where he says a distancing from politics is a sign of of the awakening of Dionysian spirit and Nazi ideas and art would probably be more Apollonian than Dionysian in my opinion. I don’t know. I just don’t think it had no influence at all.

>> No.15136036

A failure.
(No one buys into the super-man)

>> No.15136042

>>15133478
ITT nobody has read Nietzsche’s view on politics

>> No.15136214

>>15135919
Mamma mia.

>> No.15136536

>>15136014
I'm not sure how much Nietzsche influenced Wagner rather than vice versa. If I had to guess, I'd say he didn't at all. It seems like Wagner was already doing his thing when Nietzsche approached him and decided to align with him.

Nietzsche's relationship with Wagner is pretty complex. A lot more complex than people often give credit to. His rejection of Wagner seems to be based on what he viewed as the fruits of the Wagnerian spirit, rather than the man himself, and the primary basis for the rejection was political. He obviously praised and envied Wagner (in a letter he wrote during the final hours before his mental collapse, he mentions Wagner as possibly one of the great men whom he once possessed) despite how he felt about his work and the future he was building with it. It's been a while since I read Nietzsche contra Wagner, and I wasn't as keen a reader then, so I think it's due a re-read sometime.

>>15136042
You know, comments like these don't actually contribute anything to the discussion. Why do you think no one in the thread has read anything regarding Nietzsche's political views (or lack thereof)?

>> No.15136585

>>15136536
>His rejection of Wagner seems to be based on what he viewed as the fruits of the Wagnerian spirit, rather than the man himself
that's what i gathered from reading Ecce Homo where he speaks highly of Wagner but shits on the 'Wagnerianer'

>> No.15136595

>>15136536
>and the primary basis for the rejection was political.
Common misunderstanding, it was personal. In truth this reaction was coverted by political and philosophical "apparent" disagreements. It's of course still more complex than this as the personal fed into the philosophical, but much of his critique of Wagner can be seen clearly to not hold up well enough for a man like Nietzsche, and besides he retained many Christian friends throughout his life.

Nietzsche could never escape the father figure of Wagner, in every work you hear an echo of his name, and in some a direct statement. In the birth of tragedy he also says directly that he was wrong about Wagner's fulfilment of the Dionysian spirit.

>> No.15136717

>>15136595
It was all intertwined in his rejection of the Wagnerian. It was philosophical, personal, and political. The father figure aspect is on point, and his rejection was ultimately on the philosophical side of things (the Dionysian), but he had no choice but to get his hands dirty and enter the political foray of the growing national socialist sentiments in Germany at the time in order to get his points across to a future readership. A lot of his criticism of Wagner's influence on Germany has to do with his view on psychology and physiology and how they tie into politics. He believed Wagner's plays "prepared" many Germans to become antisemitic national socialists, in other words, first by handing them an illusion about their ancestry, then intensifying the feelings of pride and joy, and then, when the catharsis sat in, turned to a glorification of the ascetic redeemer in Parsifal. This, in turn, created what Nietzsche viewed as a neurosis in the German people; it's why he praises Georges Bizet over Wagner as being more hygienic and relaxed, or something to that effect.

This is all based on what I can recall of contra Wagner, of course. I'm sure I'm missing some things.

>> No.15136732

>>15133478
A dictatorship of the Ubermensch

>> No.15136753

>>15133478
Ragnar Redbeard's Social Darwinism.

>> No.15136758

>>15136732
I like to think that would look sort of like Olympus. I think Nietzsche wanted Greek mythology to be real. Lots of gods, all perfect in their own element, all sabotaging each other, angering each other, warring with each other, partying with each other, over the heads of mortals who build shrines to worship them at, who sometimes receive gifts from the gods, sometimes get trampled on by them by accident (or on purpose), sometimes get criminalized by the gods... but who nonetheless give Olympus its height by being down below. I think that was the dream.

>> No.15137241

>>15136536
>I'm not sure how much Nietzsche influenced Wagner rather than vice versa
I think Nietzsche introduced Wagner to greek shit.

>> No.15137253

>>15134788
OP should have said not idealistic fantasies

>> No.15137259

>>15133478
Plato's republic style governance, empires

>> No.15137260

>>15136758
good post

>> No.15137273

>>15137259
Nietzsche hated Plato. Platonism is the entire basis for Christianity.

>> No.15137308

>>15135896
Napoleon wasnt an ubermench, only goethe came close

>> No.15137359
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15137359

>>15135960
This, and anyone else who knows it.
>>15136758
Yeah. But fuck Zeus and the Olympiads.

>> No.15137446

>>15137359
Why do you like Nietzsche, he hates women and makes fun of anarchists, you're worthless in his eyes

>> No.15137459
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15137459

>>15137446
No gods, no masters, no gurus.

And the übermensch is the hight of the anarchist dream. He called the übermensch a cross between an aristocrat and an anarchist.

>> No.15137463

>>15136758
Why do you say this?

>> No.15137470

>>15137459
The concept of the Overman makes zero sense in a world with no gods, no masters, and no gurus. There's no "Over" then.

>> No.15137479

>>15137470
the faggot you are trying to reason with is a literal tranny shitposter, ignore the cunt please.

>> No.15137478

>>15137470
"Over" just means someone who's not shackled to slave morality.

>> No.15137482

>>15137478
And how do you determine that, when there is nothing else to refer to?

>> No.15137497

>>15137459
Yeah but you're just a moralizing faggot, Nietzsche was against spreading personal values because making something for everybody devalues it. I dont understand you because you call everyone spooked but you're such a fucking self righteous prig. Get fucked idiot

>> No.15137516

>>15137482
Not the other poster, but would it work with a 'Big Brother'?

>> No.15137534

>>15137516
No. A "big brother" is not interested in a pantheon or the Dionysian.

>> No.15137542

>>15137470
>Overman
Firstly, that’s a horrible translation of the word. “Superman” makes as much sense of it.
Secondly, there’s no gods or masters or gurus to übermensch. You make no sense.

>>15137479
You are literally obsessed with penis. Are you homosexual in denial?

>>15137497
You have trouble thinking, but probably have no desire to see a better world besides. You’re one of those lowly people Nietzsche mentions.

>> No.15137573

>>15137459
Left-wing females confirmed for craving the dominant male Ubercock

>> No.15137671

>>15133509
Why would he support the governance that breeds the most passive nihilism and unimportant masses?

>> No.15137681

>>15134782
>This except for the sexism
Look at him. He literally wore a bra bow as a tie.

>> No.15137707

>>15133509
>critical of racism, sexism, xenophobia, and specism
on the surface as a means of reducing resentment.

>> No.15137725

>>15137470
"Overman" is a bad translation. 'Übermensch' doesn't imply a master or overlord. It refers to the inherently 'higher' man, regardless of social relations.

>> No.15137745

>>15137725
>inherently
This notion is absent in Nietzsche and the concepts he set forward.

>> No.15137750

>>15137573
I'd argue thats more the purview of right wing men.
Most left-wingers in general and women especially would laugh about the idea of an ubermensch taking over and leading. Its more of a right-wing theory, especially among the men.
I only say there's any sexual pathology to it because of the nigh fetishization of the ubermensch that you read in certain posts.
Reminds me in a skewed way of how maledom porn often reaches the point of being more about the guy than the girl.

>> No.15137762

>>15137745
No, it isn't. The status of Übermensch is not defined by external relations.

>> No.15137772

>>15137762
He refuted Kant's thing-in-itself and the whole of metaphysics. Everything is relative with him, even the Overman, Superman, Ubermensch or whatever you want to call it. All being needs external context in the world.

>> No.15137802

>>15137772
You're interpreting 'inherent' too abstractly. The point is that Nietzsche's Übermensch is not defined solely by its power over other people. After all, there have been plenty of inferior men who have exercised power over others throughout history. In contrast, any power that the Übermensch has is a consequence of his higher caliber.

>> No.15137816

>>15133499
Read "Tarantulas" in Zarathustra. Dumbass.

>> No.15137827

>>15134797
and bless him for that. Nothing more pseud than a politicizing philosopher.

>> No.15137833

>>15137802
I think you're misunderstanding me, I never said anything about the Overman being a dictator or a slave owner or something as narrow as that. My point was simply that the Overman can't be understood without everyone underneath. We need all of these things, all the master and slave moralists, to understand and realize the Overman. A world with no gods or masters or gurus is a world with no underneath, which is not a world of the Overman at all, but of the last man.