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/lit/ - Literature

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15121691 No.15121691 [Reply] [Original]

>Conan Doyle, Arthur. A favorite between the ages of 8 and 14, but no longer. Essentially a writer for very young people. Romantic in the large sense.

>-Vladimir Nabokov

Reminder- /lit/ is for the discussion of serious literature only

>> No.15121709

>>15121691
what on earth are you babbling on about you hare brained nincompoop

>> No.15122968 [DELETED] 

>>15121709
got em

>> No.15122971

>>15121709
t. Genre trash reader

>> No.15122979

>>15122968
That anons like you should be deep fried and fed to us patricians

>> No.15122995

>>15121691
Nabokov is based, but his opinions on Faulkner and Dosto are bullshit

>> No.15123007

>>15121691
Thank you, Vlad, very cool.

>> No.15123064

lads sometimes i pretend Nabakov is my affluent, severe uncle who insults me any time i do something sloppy

>> No.15123124

>>15122995
>his bullshit take is on the pseudo-psychoanalyst not Cervantes
Dostodrones are nonredeemable. I would take Guenon posters over them.

>> No.15123137

>>15123124
I bet a bunch of writers you respect liked Dosto

>> No.15123149

nabokov is the logical end point of literature

>> No.15123166

>>15123137
And? You want me to make a tantrum thread about it? I bet a bunch of the writers I respect like Freud too.

>> No.15123182
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15123182

>>15121709
Epic pwn

>> No.15123206

I love how Nabokov uses exactly the same put-downs for several writers. It makes it even more insulting.

>> No.15123226

>>15123206
i don't think the lines usually posted here are quoted verbatim. they've been rephrased for easy web overview

>> No.15123229

>>15123206
It's like he couldn't be bothered to make up another insult and just lumped them all together so he had more time to catalogue butterflies.

>> No.15123264

>>15123226
They have been condensed and assembled from off-hand remarks throughout the source, but not rephrased. Look up his book "Strong Opinions".

>> No.15123363

>>15121691
You were reading Doyle at 8?

>> No.15123375

What does he mean by "romantic in the large sense"? Nab uses this description multiple times in that list

>> No.15123398

>>15123375
see >>15123264

but "romantic in the large sense", would probably mean it's less about the artistry of the work itself, and more about having a specific meaning/theme in mind. VN was notoriously picky about authors moralizing, and very much favoured well-written prose over all

>> No.15123448

>>15122995
What did he say about the Faulk man?

>> No.15123471

>>15123448
>Dislike him. Writer of corncobby chronicles. To consider them masterpieces is an absurd delusion. A nonentity, means absolutely nothing to me.
Say what you want, but "corncobby chronicles" is a stroke of genius.

>> No.15123497

>>15123471
"ghastly rigmarole" also gets me everytime

>> No.15123531

>>15123166
No they're wrong because they're not neo-liberal enough for me... wahhhh

>> No.15123549

>>15123497
Oh yes. "A nonentity, means absolutely nothing to me" is another favourite between the ages of 8 and 33.

>> No.15123556

>>15123549
>is another favourite between the ages of 8 and 33.
This one is the most ridiculous

>> No.15123564 [DELETED] 

>>15123549
and thereafter

>> No.15123595

>>15123549
My absolute favourite, regarding Plato:
>Not particularly fond of him.

>> No.15123616

>>15123595
Marx's was something like "I dislike him."

>> No.15123623

>>15123363
When you reach adulthood, it is time to put away the kiddie books.

>> No.15123713

>>15123556
what's ridiculous about it?

it implies that he loved it most when he was a child up until adulthood; this was probably said when he was in his 60's/70's

>> No.15123734

dosto>>>>nabby

>> No.15123737 [DELETED] 

>>15123616
Loathe him

>> No.15123749

>>15123734
Cringe take.

>> No.15123796

>>15123749
opposite of pseud take

>> No.15123821

>>15123623
Which Nabokov did...at 14...

>> No.15123837

>>15123821
Yes.

>> No.15123846

>>15123796
Dosto is pseud core

>> No.15123877

>>15123846
literally the opposite since it's fashionable to look down your nose at him these days and think he's shit because of his lack of interest in formalised stylistic flourishes like >based nabby and instead paying heed to more honourable pursuits like characters and emotion and gripping drama

>> No.15123963

>>15123877
>dosto has good characters
t. pseud

You can have good characters, emotion and gripping drama while not writing like a midwit. Go read Tolstoy.

>> No.15123973

>>15123877
The dosto hate is definitely pseud. I dont know why it suddenly sprang up in the past few years

>> No.15123991

>>15123963
Only midwits use the term midwit

>> No.15124000

>>15123963
i have. he's really good but i prefer dosto. dosto writes like a man possessed frothing at the mouth, tolstoy writes like the deliberate mannered member of the aristocracy that he was. also it's not just characters it's the, at the risk of being mocked for lack of ironic aloofness, how interestingly he weaves in philosophical ideas and commentary of 19th century into these characters. he is over the top but i love him for it, 'i loved the shame of depravity, i loved cruelty ... in a word, a karamazov!

>> No.15124011

>>15123846
Nabby is peak pseudery.

>> No.15124018

>>15123973
I don't "hate" Dosto, I just generally dislike "doomer talks to himself" novels. Catcher in the Rye and The Book of Disquiet are other books like this I can't get into. It's okay if you like it, it's just not my style.

>> No.15124026

>>15123991
>shooting yourself in the foot just to prove a point
b-based

>> No.15124033

>>15121709
made me laugh, unironically based

>> No.15124049

>>15123471
He obviously hasn’t read as I lay dying or the sound and the fury.

>> No.15124070

Why do you think he hated Dostoyevsky so much?
I usually agree with him, but I just don't get that. Is it some russian thing? Envy?

>> No.15124072

>>15124018
>dosto is exclusively doomer talks to himself
you know nothing lad

>> No.15124080

>>15123623
the childish innocence is restored for buddhas , miserable pseuds retards could not reach that point in heart to relate.

>> No.15124096

>>15124000
grow up

>> No.15124104

>>15123877
>characters and emotion and gripping drama
dostodrones confirmed for being melodrama-loving women lmao

>> No.15124106

>>15124104
>melodrama bad
ok, so fuck shakespeare?

>>15124096
cringe.

>> No.15124121

>>15123713
so at 34 he stopped reading kids books?

>> No.15124129

>>15121691
Based Nobokov. The infallible writer strikes again.

>> No.15124133

>>15124106
If shakespeare wrote like dosto, yea fuck shakespeare. No one reads shakespeare for his story or drama. This board is unsalvageable.

>> No.15124150

>>15124133
>no one reads shakespeare for story or drama
kys so stupid

>> No.15124155

>>15124133
The most important thing in literature is having a flowery style and not philosophical depth.

>> No.15124160

>>15124133
Have you even read him in Russian

>> No.15124191

>>15124155
this but unironically

"philosophical points" can be rattled off on a bullet list

>> No.15124196

>>15124191
soulless

>> No.15124206

>>15124150
You do know that many of Shakespeare's plays were taken from other historical or contemporary plays of his time? Shakespeare is great for his writing, language and characters, not the drama itself.

>> No.15124210

>>15124206
writing, language and characters = drama

>> No.15124214

> Lovecraft, Howard Philips. Monomaniac. Created a series of nocturnal squid tales. Perhaps a metaphor for World Jewry?

>> No.15124215

>>15124196
yes i forgot soul is having cardboard cutouts argue like schizos for 900 pages

>> No.15124224

>>15124210
This is bait.

>> No.15124227

>>15124215
>cardboard cutouts
brainlet

>>15124224
it's not

>> No.15124234

>>15124227
>it's not
Seek help.

>> No.15124236

>>15124121
YA didn't even really exist in VN's time, although he liked Lewis Carroll (and made fun of him for being a pedo)

>> No.15124243

>>15121691
I bought the second volume of Sherlock Holmes at a thrift store. It has a reference to "the curious incident of the dog in the night-time..."

>> No.15124268

>>15124070
Dostoevsky is literally the exact opposite of his artistic philosophy

>> No.15124275
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15124275

>dosto was a bad writer

yeah, right

>> No.15124281

>>15124033
t. Genre turd

>> No.15124290

>>15124227
>every aspect of a story is drama

>> No.15124296

>>15124214
Kek

>> No.15124297
File: 1.68 MB, 2300x1179, Screenshot 2020-04-17 at 20.33.12.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15124297

>>15124275

>> No.15124302

>>15124275
Why the fuck are you posting a translation? Don't tell me you didn't read dostoevsky in the original russian? Also the prose is bland as fuck

>> No.15124308

>>15123821
We should all strive to be as based as Nabokov and shit on the turd genre crud writers.

>> No.15124389

Style: Nabokov
Substance: Dostoevksy
Middle ground(aka actually good authors): Joyce, Melville, Tolstoy, Shakespeare

>> No.15124390

>>15124297
look i respect dosto's hustle (getting paid by the word and all) but any way you cut it this is overwritten, navel-gazing trash. it's quite literally playing with its own doodoo. at least in this translation

>> No.15124396

Bloom, Harold. A ghastly standard-bearer, a cromulent fuckcrustable. Read his complete works between the ages of seven and eight. Sometimes the dramatic texture of his critical anxiety causes a slightly tingly feeling in the nether-regions. A complete nonentity means absolutely nothing to me.

>> No.15124408

>>15124389
Wrong. Style IS substance.

>> No.15124579

>>15124389
>Substance: Dostoevksy
lmao

>> No.15124597

>>15124408
>>15124579
t. limpwrists

>> No.15124600

>>15124408
Extremely based.

>> No.15124607

>>15124597
read other books other than the ones Jordan Peterson recommended you

>> No.15124608

>>15124018
read the Brothers Karamazov

>> No.15124619

>>15124072
I read Notes From Underground and dropped Crime and Punishment. The synopsis for the rest of his novels were so dreary and repetitive I resolved to never read a word of him ever again.

>> No.15124632

>>15124607
Having a lightbulb moment here. You guys unironically don't like Dostoevsky now because you associate him with Jordan Peterson.

That is what is going on here. You haven't even read his books have you? Jesus christ

>> No.15124644

>>15124607
Who?

>> No.15124653

>>15124632
Holu fuck you type like a gigantic faggot

>> No.15124667
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15124667

>>15124653
>Holu fuck you type like a gigantic faggot

>> No.15124678

>>15124653
at least I dont base my literary opinions on people I havent read on associations with some drugged up boomer.

>> No.15124736

>>15124632
The only thing I haven't read is Demons. They were all average books; genre fiction with forced philosophy onto characterless forms. The monologues you get every 300 pages are cozy I guess.

>> No.15124752

>>15124049
As I lay dying is peak corncob.

>> No.15124762

>>15124678
What you don't seem to understand is that people don't like dostoevsky because of his limp prose. It's been fucking shouted at you fifty times over by now, you just latched on to a random fag insulting you

>> No.15124785

Anon. Dislike him intensely.

>> No.15124808

>>15124736
The philosophy, characters, setting, and events of his novels are expertly woven together in a completely organic fashion. His style of prose which gets so much shit is also perfect for the kind of delirious atmosphere he's trying to cultivate.

Anyway I am now positive this is why people have started shitting on Dostoevsky, it even started in earnest 2-3 years ago which is when Memerson appeared. You're all a bunch of faggots

>> No.15124915

>>15124632
I just hate how much young white pseuds on the internet love Dostoevsky. Everytime I see these little faggots acting all smart I want to punch a fucking hole in a wall and many times I do.

>> No.15124924

>>15124915
Stick your dick in a blender and that should calm you down for life

>> No.15124930

>>15124808
>The philosophy, characters, setting, and events of his novels are expertly woven together in a completely organic fashion. His style of prose which gets so much shit is also perfect for the kind of delirious atmosphere he's trying to cultivate.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Shut the fuck up you don't know anything about /lit/

>> No.15124948

>>15124808
>The philosophy, characters, setting, and events of his novels are expertly woven together in a completely organic fashion. His style of prose which gets so much shit is also perfect for the kind of delirious atmosphere he's trying to cultivate.
Jesus christ.

>> No.15124967

>>15124930
nice completely contentless post

>> No.15125040

>>15124915
based

>> No.15125051
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15125051

>The philosophy, characters, setting, and events of his novels are expertly woven together in a completely organic fashion. His style of prose which gets so much shit is also perfect for the kind of delirious atmosphere he's trying to cultivate.

>> No.15125073

>>15124808
>His style of prose which gets so much shit is also perfect for the kind of delirious atmosphere he's trying to cultivate.
His prose has no style to speak of, it's as characterless as a manila folder

>> No.15125151

>>15125051
>>15124948
Do you really think it is accidental that he chose a Russian town during that time period, those 3 brothers personalities, the subject of a parricide whose perpetrator was unknown, in a story that is ultimately about a crisis of faith in his hero? There is so much shit going on in that book it is not my fault if you can't see it, and none it is forced, the entire thing develops naturally.
>>15125073
He has an extremely distinctive voice, you can read him in Russian and then read a text you have never read by him in English and identify it as him.

>> No.15125249

>>15124396
Based

>> No.15125257

>>15125151
>He has an extremely distinctive voice, you can read him in Russian and then read a text you have never read by him in English and identify it as him
Yeah, that over an over worked writer getting paid by the word

>> No.15125276

>>15124924
Will that make me into a pretty woman?

>> No.15125509

>>15124915
go back to twitter dumbass chapocuck.

>> No.15125534

>>15124308
Ya I hate myself and what I like so I’m only going to like books other people tell me I should like

>> No.15125978

>>15125534
Yes, that's the only reason people could have for disliking disposable crud like Conan Doyle.

>> No.15125984

>>15124389
Nabokov has plenty of substance. Humbert Humbert is one of the most layered psychological portraits in literature.

>> No.15126217

>>15124632
for my money i dont like him because nabby daddy says hes bad

>> No.15126595

>>15123963
>>15124096
>>15125051
>>15125984
>>15122995
>Dostoyevsky, Bulgakov and Gogol
Based
>Tolstoy, Nabokov and Chekhov
Cringe

>> No.15126636

>>15121709
I apologize for the bizarre schizo nonsense but can you leave me and the girls alone please? If you didn't harass me like this, I wouldn't even think of you at all or get angry.

>> No.15126717

>>15121709
And it's not just Buffalo Bill, it's your entire family. You people are like a carnival freakshow. I can only do so much fake smiling and laughing, man. Come on.

>> No.15126774

>>15124268
no, VN quite simply disliked Dostoevsky's general style and moralizing, there's plenty of authors you'd figure he dislike (Hawthorne) that he ended up complimenting

>> No.15128150

>>15123749
They're just almost exact opposites

>> No.15128836

>>15121709
r4eddit

>> No.15128957

>>15121691
Nabokov isn't very good. He tries to do in prose what poets do in verse. He fails. Lolita is a mediocrity.

If you wish to read literature about longing and forbiden love, read Cavafy. Then compare the Greek master to the Russian charlatan and see for yourself what seas there are between real poetry and the affectations of "creative writing" and "literature" professors.

>> No.15129982

>>15128957
>Lolita is a mediocrity.
A formidable mediocrity.

>> No.15130013

>>15124080
Buddha is not about "childish innocence." You seem to have Buddha confused with Pippi Longstockings.

>> No.15130026

>>15130013
We call her Her Longstockingness Pippi (pbuh).

>> No.15130039

>>15128957
clueless

>> No.15130727

>>15128957
Lolita is one of the best novels of the 20th century.

>> No.15131108

>>15126217
Based

>> No.15131134

Dostoevsky is the living embodiment kitsch

>> No.15131247

>>15130039
Not clueless. In fact, even if you take Lolita solely as a cartographical epic, it must be said that Cavafy's Alexandria is much more alive than Nabokov's Baedekerized America.