/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15114210]

why was these retards' blabbering called "idealism" - as if it came after plato - when it was just a bunch of weak, petty sophisms crammed together to "justify" lutheranism one last time in its short history, while having nothing to do with platonism itself?
thanks.

[Anonymous No.15114214]

>>15114210
also how come this trash got the name of "continental" , and not just "german"?

[Anonymous No.15114220]

>>15114214
you just pissed off a bunch of pederasts.

[Anonymous No.15114235]

Because they were by and large realists with regard to the ideal, and the most convenient way to designate that heuristically and historically is "idealism." Beiser reads Fichte as a sort of pragmatist, or as becoming one later on, but most readers of Fichte (e.g. Kolakowski) emphasize that his "subject" was actually a super-subject containing individual human subjectivities only as contingent elements, so again, he was basically a realist with regard to an ideal absolute Ego, as the only really existing thing, interacting with itself according to a kind of emanationist logic. This is standard to neoplatonism and to a lot of oriental metaphysics, which is why Beiser calls it a rehabilitation of neoplatonism.

Schelling does the same, especially in his early Naturphilosophie and still after breaking from Fichte. Hegel also does the same although a few people have wrongly interpreted Hegel as "post-metaphysical." But even the post-metaphysical or pragmatic interpreters of Fichte or Hegel would still be transcendental idealists, meaning they view the world not necessarily as inherently mental (although that's still implicit in many of them) but as given to us through irreducibly mental blinders. This is also conveniently but somewhat confusingly called idealism. Berkeley was a metaphysical idealist, also of the (loosely) platonic variety, and Kant was accused initially of being a Berkeleyan idealist and had to defend against this charge by strongly distinguishing his epistemic, transcendental idealism from metaphysical idealism. Kant's successors ignored this charge and re-naturalized the transcendental subject to the metaphysical super-subject.

[Anonymous No.15114274]

>>15114210
>why was these retards'
Pic related is the image that popped up in my head when I read this

[Anonymous No.15114281]

>>15114235
>neoplatonism
this is another retarded definition. neoplatonism has nothing to do with plato, it should be called plotinism and call it a day.

[Anonymous No.15114289]

>>15114274
that must be jacobi. or schleiermacher.

[Anonymous No.15114295]

>>15114281
>neoplatonism has nothing to do with plato
kys schleiermacher, since the coming of pic related, this view is untenable and indefensible

[Anonymous No.15114346]

>>15114295
almost forgot to say that kant view himself as an empiricist. it is one of the few almost personal passages in the critique of the pure reason.

[Anonymous No.15114375]

>>15114281
have you actually read anything from plotinus? he was a self ascribed commentator of plato's texts

[Anonymous No.15114376]

>>15114210
german idealism is the peak of philosophical thought, it's completely wrong but that doesn't matter

[Anonymous No.15114389]

>>15114375
>self ascribed
yeah, this is the recurrent problem with plotinism and its heir fichteanism.

[Anonymous No.15114415]

>>15114295
Gerson is great

[Anonymous No.15114543]

>>15114389
>>15114295
and everyone who met him who call themselves Platonist conformed themselves to him, and he single-handedly made "pure Aristotelianism" obsolete (nobody called themselves peripatetic after him), and every Platonist and "Aristotelian" after him thought thrice before critiquing or revising his thought. And Proclus, ironically the most famous Neoplatonist, was the least Plotinian among them, yet it is Proclus who called Plotinus the GREATEST exegete of Plato; and the savior of the tradition, since Middle Platonism and Gnosticism was a disorganized brawl lacking all cohesion or sense: while Plotinus heralded 400 years of scholarly Unity (most exemplified in his elimination of the false dichotomy of Aristotle and Plato).

[Anonymous No.15114641]

>>15114376
it was debunked along with all other profane philosophy by Guenon my freind

[Anonymous No.15114660]

>>15114543
nope plotinus, proclus and their circle just "invented" a pedantic retarded way of doing philosophy, which ruined medieval scholasticism and ultimately everything referring to it (including for example the opposite of plotinism, that is analytic philosophy), while the german "idealists" thrived in that obtuse, barbarian jargon. there are the only tangible effects of plotinism on the western canon.

[Anonymous No.15114671]

>>15114660
> there are
*these are

[Anonymous No.15114684]

>>15114660
and it goes without saying that plotinus himself is NOT part of the western canon, but of the middle eastern one, if there is such a thing.

[Anonymous No.15114692]

>>15114641
philosophy isn't debunked you absolute anglo-empiricist

[Anonymous No.15114733]

>>15114692
>guenonposter
>anglo empiricist
LMAO, how long have you been on /lit/? three days?

[Anonymous No.15114749]

>>15114733
Yeah, how dare he not know about the latest tripfag/discord spammer! There's a whole vibrant ecosystem of twitter celebs and camwhores to know about, that's what 4chan is about! Lurk more!

>>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.15114772]

>>15114733
try /r/philosophy you'll love it

[Anonymous No.15114983]

>>15114210
Never make a thread here again

[Anonymous No.15115063]

>>15114983
cope

[Anonymous No.15115712]

>>15114660
Plotinus' Indefinte Dyad (Intelligible Matter) and Nous and the One is identical, metaphysically, to Schopenhauer's Formless Matter and Informing Subject and Der Wille.
Likewise Plotinus thought up the birthpangs that became Phenomenology.
And not to mention all of Hegel in various ways.
Three philosophies that are seemingly radically opposed each-other: but, pick any philosopher, from Kant to Deleuze, and you will find their main thoughts already foreshadowed in the Enneads—and harmonized, if not completed there then definitely you will in Proclus or Damascius. And all that composes these three agathodaemons is found already in Plato.
Indeed, all western thought after Eriugena is derivative of the great ancient true Academicians, whom above all deserve the titles of Philosophers.