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/lit/ - Literature

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15107898 No.15107898 [Reply] [Original]

Is he right? Is Finnegans Wake really as shit as he makes it out to be?

>> No.15107921

>>15107898
Finnegan's wake decribes finnegan as a nigger; it specifically mentions his large nose and lips.

>> No.15107927

>victor hugo is challenging

>> No.15107933

FW is literally schizo tier nonsense. Had it been posted on a geocities website in the late 90's it would have been a meme like Time Cube.

>> No.15107936

>>15107898
To judge all of Joyce's work by Finnegan's Wake alone is stupid. FW itself is a puzzle, not a book. Joyce himself said he could defend every single line of it, and I don't doubt it.

>> No.15107937

>>15107898
no surprise redditors are plotfags

>> No.15107939

>>15107898
Reddit is totally fucking inimitable. This image here is just dripping in distilled redditry but I can't even explain what it is and I don't know how to satirize it either. Every little detail of what he says, and the way he chose to say it

>> No.15107946

I see the Joyce discord have already appeared. Faster than usual, I have screenshots of your chats by the way.

>> No.15107947

for some reason I imagined dfw narrative the entire thing

>> No.15107958

>>15107939
the more times i read it the funnier it becomes

>> No.15107970
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15107970

Finnegans Wake can't be bad because it contains one of the best paragraphs of all time:

"Then Nuvoletta reflected for the last time in her little long life and she made up all her myriads of drifting minds in one. She cancelled all her engauzements. She climbed over the bannistars; she gave a childy cloudy cry: Nuée! Nuée! A lightdress fluttered. She was gone. And into the river that had been a stream (for a thousand of tears had gone eon her and come on her and she was stout and struck on dancing and her muddied name was Missisliffi) there fell a tear, a singult tear, the loveliest of all tears...for it was a leaptear. But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh! I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!"

>> No.15108025

>>15107970
Gibreish.

>> No.15108033

Was this written by the guy who wrote The Martian?

>> No.15108048
File: 32 KB, 759x420, ff.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15108048

>>15107970
>Missisliffi

>> No.15108084

>>15108048
"Missymissy" is of
course the Mississippi, which rises to the surface elsewhere in Joyce's text as the
"Missisliffi" (159.12-13) (theMississippi andtheLiffey punningly combined)-
and as "ithmuthisthy" (623.10)

>> No.15108095

>>15108084
i got missus missy, mississipi, and the liffey. hence the face i posted

ithmuthisthy didnt occur to me though

>> No.15108106

>>15108095
Good wordplay

>> No.15108125

>>15107898
How much of a stuck up faggot do you need to be to not enjoy finnegans wake?

>> No.15108144

>>15107898
is poetry not writing in redditör's mind? If the flow of language in poetry can create certain feelings, why can't the flow of language and the associations we have with certain sounds do the same?

>> No.15108171

>>15108144
*in FW

Also, the "incomprehensible" words he made up often have more direct associations than conventional words because there are no biases and you have to reflect on the multiple meanings of all them like you do in poetry.

>> No.15108176

>>15107898
He/She/It is not wrong, you know?Why read something with no meaning? Even Game of Thrones or Handmaiden's Tale is better than this.

>> No.15108188

>>15107946
are you the schizo with the 12? What if I decide to join them in FW posting (I'm not part of them yet)? Will the number 13 trigger the apocolypse?

>> No.15108190
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15108190

>faked upboats
Even redditors know he's wrong

>> No.15108198

>>15108190
Prosefags are redditors

>> No.15108201

>>15108188
>>15108190
top see bottom. this is proof that they're fucking with the board and making threads to push some stupid agenda. they need to be banned

>> No.15108215

>>15108201
they'll get bored and leave. Discordfags dont really like 4chan, that's why theyre on discord

>> No.15108220

>>15107939
I think the prime redditry comes from the fact that he uses "you" but means "I" when he talks about deriving meaning from Joyce which leads to 3000 upvotes because it triggered the group brainlet feel

>> No.15108222

>>15108201
lol what? I just googled the words in the image because censoring the name is a big red flag someone's trying to fake something. That and I can't believe 3000 people would be in a thread about FW anywhere on the internet.

>> No.15108230

>>15108220
See >>15108190

>> No.15108247

>>15107939
The first two paragraphs are largely just a string of cliches for contrasting something against a nebulous ideal.
>There is a difference between...
>What [X is]... is certainly not [this]
>If [X] is ... this is
>I tried finding...
>[X] is NOT (but with italics)
He keeps restating his thesis, that Finnegans Wake is gibberish. He keeps naming synonyms for gibberish. His only citation is a link to the text of Finnegans Wake.
The last paragraph wraps it up by praising another poster for coming to the same conclusion; tautologically asserting that meaningless things lack meaning; and begging the question: is a book of gibberish worth your time?

In short, he pulled a classic student move: he had a thesis (Finnegans Wake is gibberish), did no research to support it, and simply reiterated the thesis with rhetorical bells and whistles until hitting a word count.

>> No.15108256

>>15108201
people who wouldn't read FW to begin with wont, and guenonfags aren't banned either so what's your point? I mean it's clear they are just searching for FW in reddit search engine, yesterday they posted a comment from 7 years ago

>> No.15108266

>>15108220
it's the prose, i really cant explain it other than by just quoting it but then I end up quoting the whole thing, these are maybe the most reddity parts
>And writing is *not* just putting scribbles down on paper. That is what infants do.
>That is a beautiful comment
>works that are meaningless and from which you *cannot* derive meaning
>so to answer your question, ask yourself this question
and then he fucking repeats the other line. maybe i just need to go to sleep i should not find this to be this funny

>> No.15108270

>>15107921
>'
Watch your fucking back you little shit.

>> No.15108278

>>15107936
>'
You too.

>> No.15108343

Can somebody tell me why they like Finnegans wake? I read parts of Ulysses, and I found it rather silly but not engaging. I never got why people seethe over it. I tried reading The Dead too and found it rather boring.

>> No.15108347

>>15108222
desu that's exactly the type of comment I would expect to hit 3000 upvotes on reddit. Maybe he should have said George Orwell instead of Victor Hugo

>> No.15108352

>>15108256
>>15108222
What's my point? They're pushing a fucking agenda about Finnegans wake and it goes beyond /lit/. expect to see it in the news over the next year or so. why else would they be posting this again and again just after the Irish government announce plans to retrieve joyce's body.

"James Joyce: Return writer’s remains to Ireland, say Dublin councillors"

Above headline is from 2019. They are literally forging letters to try and extract his remains, read up on the subject. It's not a coincidence that the FW threads popped up around the same time.

>> No.15108363

"Mr Lacey said he had been told by local Joyceans in Sandymount that the writer wished to be buried in Ireland. Having checked with Senator David Norris whether that was in fact the case, Mr Lacey resolved to put forward the motion.

He and Mr McCartan are aiming to have the remains brought back to Ireland in time for the centenary of the publication of Ulysses, Joyce’s best-known novel, in February 2022."

The "sandymount Joyceans" obviously aren't real; Joyce's dying wishes are going to be defiled for whatever it is Ireland want to do with Joyce's bones for 2022. Fucking look at what has been happening on /lit/ the past few weeks

>> No.15108429

>>15107970
Incredible. Potential suicide, imagination and a simple rain all fused into one single paragraph. I now promise to myself that I'll read FW this year.

>> No.15108502

>>15108343
I like how Joyce plays with your own mind while you are reading. For example if you read Ulysses you get the feeling of everything being connected, when you get to the later parts of the book, memories and allusions from earlier parts are recalled in Bloom's or Stephen's conciousness and feel like they are drawn from your own memory. In FW he draws on your own subconcious interpreting everything apart from your usual understanding of language, which allows him to write in double or triple meaning by meshing together words that on the one hand look like two words you know from different languages and sounds like a third.

>> No.15108574

>>15107898
> Victor Hugo is challenging
Aw c'mon dude :\

You can totally derive meaning from meaningless things. All symbols are inherently meaningless. What matters is whether the meaninglessness is interesting or not. This is super basic shit. You came out stargaze just just to deny the constellations.

Plus, Joyce's total oeuvre isn't that weird. His earlier stuff is pretty pedestrian by modern standards.

>> No.15108606

>>15108352
>>15108363
is this seriously true? i didn't think the irish government would care about the government perspective

>> No.15108609
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15108609

Joseph Campbell wrote a book on it, Beckett wrote an essay on it before it was even published and the quark gets it's spelling from FW. This is an appeal to authority I know, but for people that can't sit down and think about something that tries things a little differently maybe this will help them see it's not total bullshit.

>>15108343
I've only really read the first 10 or so pages but many many times. It's funny, quite clever, fun to try and figure what the hell he's trying to say and I think whatever he's trying to get at is something pretty big. The whole book isn't bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur-
nuk, which itself is probably one of the easier words to decipher. It's crazy the way he compares things that one wouldn't think are similar or connected in any way but he really shows them to be so. For instance, on the first page he compares humpty dumpty to the fall of man.

http://www.finwake.com/1024chapter1/1024finn1.htm

This website is a good resource but it's definitely not the only one out there.

>> No.15108611

>>15108502
Are you entertained by this? I don't necessarily need a plot, but I want enjoyment.

>> No.15108653

>>15108606
It is true, look at the recent threads on the board and the number 12, they're planning something for 2022.

>> No.15108715

>>15108611
The poetic, musical and experimental usage of language is so fascinating to me, I don't know why. I haven't even read much of it but I find passages of it stuck in my head all the time now, which never used to happen to me with anything else. Maybe listen to it being read first to get a feeling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAc901X7gK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kFqiv8Vww

>> No.15108852

>>15107898
Bro I'm listening to this twelve tone serialism and when does the bass drop bro??? This is trash bro there isn't even a BEAT

>> No.15108991

>>15108363
wtf does this have to do with Finnegans Wake threads

>> No.15109204
File: 3.55 MB, 3024x4032, C253D1F8-4E2B-48D6-9E81-EEF1C84A00E7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15109204

>>15107936
He told this to Beckett see pic related. It's from the intro to the Viking Scholarly edition of Portrait.

>> No.15110678

>>15107970
Beautiful. I immediately knew when I clicked in this thread is that a chad in a gray background is surely to appear. FWposter you are based.

>> No.15110718

>>15107898
I read Les Misrables in Grade 8. Anybody who thinks Victor Hugo is “challenging” has a worthless opinion.

>> No.15110755

>>15107898
Joyce couldn't understand Proust. If you got filtered by Proust you are a midwit.

>> No.15110780

>>15107898
Read it aloud. If you don't start cracking up, you shouldn't read it. Of course, I believe humans make their own meaning, so take that as you will.

>> No.15111296

>>15108991
Look at the semblance of them recently. As soon as the government announced they were retrieving the body people said they were forging Joyce's last wishes: people that knew the family said Joyce never wanted to return to Ireland yet, the government are trying to win over public appeal to transfer the bones over back to Dublin for the 2022 anniversary of Ulysses.

Read the headlines. These threads are artificial and started popping up about 12 weeks ago. 12 as in the amount of people posting as well. It's going to become more apparent in 2021

>> No.15111317

>>15110755
Joyce didn't care for Proust and farted at him while pretending to be asleep when they met.

>> No.15111779

>>15111296
You're a little paranoid anon.

>> No.15111810

>>15107898
>So, to answer your question, ask yourself this question: is reading something that is meaningless, from which you cannot derive meaning, worth your time?
Yes?

>> No.15111848

>>15111779
No I'm not, google it and look at the recent threads and the stuff being said inside.

>> No.15111874

>>15111848
How would photoshopping a reddit post to imply that the Wake is loathed by redditors make Irish people want to import Joyce's bones?

>> No.15111920

>>15111874
"“All I know is that there seems to be no evidence that Joyce wanted to return to Ireland or even be buried there,” Senn said. “He never took Irish citizenship when he could have done it. Most Joyce experts would agree.”

"If the Dublin city councillors’ motion is passed, the next step will be to ask the Irish government to request the remains be returned before the centenary celebrations around the publication of Ulysses in 2022."

"Senn predicted that Joyce’s grandson, Stephen Joyce, who has guarded his grandfather’s legacy closely over the years, would be unlikely to back the motion. “Everything depends on his vote – negative, most likely,” said Senn. Attempts to reach Stephen Joyce were unsuccessful."

So you see that? They're having trouble importing the bones and it's from Joyce's grandson. The movement by the irish government to retrieve Joyce's bones started five months ago but was getting stiffed by the grandson Stephen Joyce. Until recently that is, look at this:

"Stephen Joyce, last direct descendant of James Joyce, dies aged 87
Former OECD employee was a controversial guardian of his grandfather’s writings
Fri, Jan 24, 2020, 15:54"

Do you seriously think it's a coincidence that he dies two months after he puts up problems for the irish government? (((health problems))) I'm sure. So why target /lit/? Because in modern society the literary community is small and they have two years to perform psych-ops to make people receptive to transferring the bones from Switzerland to Ireland. I have no idea what they have planned but it's likely to do with his bone marrow and it's happening in 2022, the anniversary of Ulysses. Stop bumping Finnegans Wake threads, stop responding to finnegans wake threads and don't mention their discord, let (((them))) get tired of shilling on the board.

>> No.15111954

>>15111920
An 87 year old died? How mysterious.

How is talking about Finnegans Wake going to get people to want Joyce's bones in Ireland?

>> No.15112602

>>15107970
Harder than reading Hegel

>> No.15112614

>>15112602
it is not. There are just multiple meanings to be gleaned from the reading. Hegel is gibberish

>> No.15112920

>>15108025
Was that an attempt at a Joycean neologism? It didn't work.

>> No.15112935

>>15108176
And what is the "meaning" of Game of Thrones, you absolute turbopleb?

>> No.15112943

>>15108256
>guenonfags
>implying there's more than one

>> No.15113017
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15113017

>NOOOOOOOOO THIS BOOK DOESN'T ENTERTAIN ME SO IT'S BAD!!! YOU CAN'T JUST WRITE SOMETHING THAT HAS NO INTRINSIC MEANING!!!

>> No.15113086

>>15111920
What would they want the marrow for? Would it be cloning? Also Sage'd, I'll try to keep these threads at bay.