/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15107009]

>refuted philosophy both east and west
>refuted thinking itself
>refuted religion
>refuted enlightenment
>refuted change
>refuted essentially everything we know
Why haven't you taken the UG pill?

[Anonymous No.15107014]

>>15107009
who

[Anonymous No.15107024]

>>15107009
so basically Stirner 3.0?

[Anonymous No.15107025]

>>15107014
UG Krishnamurti
>>/lit/thread/S15038991#p15039023

[Anonymous No.15107070]

>>15107024
No he's in a league of his own

[Anonymous No.15107086]

>>15107070
how so?

[Anonymous No.15107099]

>>15107086
You will have to figure it out yourself. Much info here in this entire thread>>15107025

[Anonymous No.15107192]

>>15107009
Is he the new Guenon?

[Anonymous No.15107368]

>>15107192

[Anonymous No.15107487]

>>15107009
>”anti guru”
>is a guru
what did poo mean by this

[Anonymous No.15107493]

>>15107009
>refuted thinking itself
But how can think that think not real if think not real?
Literal retards

[Anonymous No.15107541]

>>15107487
Not a guru you baiting retard

[Anonymous No.15107555]

>>15107493
Do you know what you're doing now is really "thinking?"

[Anonymous No.15107575]

>>15107555
Checked and yes. I mean 'thinking' wasn't defined, but if it's a tangible experience in the mind, like picturing an apple, then yes I am thinking of an apple

[Anonymous No.15107578]

>>15107555
>>15107493
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iXyLbU1GGqU

[Anonymous No.15107723]

>>15107009
Why should I care?

[Anonymous No.15107742]

>>15107723
You tell me

[Anonymous No.15108261]

BASED

[Anonymous No.15108287]

>>15107009
Love the UG threads on here. You cannot un-read UG. He is always in the back of my head. In a good way.

[Anonymous No.15108323]

>>15107025
who?

[Anonymous No.15108397]

>>15107009
Sounds like a suicide cult

[Anonymous No.15108462]

>>15108397
He would dab and wreck leaders of all kinds with his scathing critiques

[Anonymous No.15108477]

>>15108287
Yes, once you read UG you seriously never see the world the same, not even joking a little bit.

[Anonymous No.15108806]

>>15107368

[Anonymous No.15108828]

>>15108806
LOL. NEET life is a revolutionary act

[Anonymous No.15108889]

>>15108828
there's a reason why 4chan cares more about Guenon than other communities

[Anonymous No.15108944]

>>15108889
True. The crisis of the modern world looked interesting I might read that.

[Anonymous No.15108986]

>>15107009
>refuted thinking
is this what pseuds call being retarded?

[Anonymous No.15109007]

>>15108986
Yes, he refuted thinking and thought itself

[Anonymous No.15109022]

>>15108986
"Thought is not the instrument for achieving anything other than the goals set before us by our culture or society or whatever you want to call it. The basic problem we have to face today is this: the cultural input, or what society has placed before us as the goal for all of us to reach and attain, is the enemy of this living organism. Thought can only create problems; it cannot help us to solve any.” Thought comes with a built-in program to create the next goal to be achieved – be it an educational degree, a house purchase, a promotion, a start-up, poverty alleviation or even enlightenment. Once one goal is met, another is generated automatically. Thought makes sure that happiness lies in the future, not in the present moment. How can such an instrument help us live a peaceful life ever?"

[Anonymous No.15109094]

>>15109022
>>15108986
Our mind (and there are no individual minds — only "mind", which is the accumulation of man's knowledge and experience) has created the notion of the psyche and evolution. Only technology progresses, while we as a race are moving closer to complete and total destruction of the world and ourselves. Everything in man's consciousness is pushing the whole world, which nature has so laboriously created, toward destruction. There has been no qualitative change in man's thinking; we feel about our neighbours just as the frightened caveman felt towards his. The only thing that has changed is our ability to destroy our neighbor and his property.

[Anonymous No.15109095]

>>15109022
>Once one goal is met, another is generated automatically
But that's Life

[Anonymous No.15109096]

Consciousness is MALIGNANTLY USELESS. UG knew this, and was based

[Anonymous No.15109105]

>>15109096
But it takes consciousness to realize that lmao, so how useless is it?

[Anonymous No.15109107]

>>15109095
That's not living, that's a horse pulling a cart while a guy dangles a carrot in front of his nose.
Not living, just chasing. Workaholic pathology.

[Anonymous No.15109108]

>>15109096
>>15109105
i think im beginning to dislike language

[Anonymous No.15109112]

>>15109105
That's the MALIGNANCY part.

[Anonymous No.15109121]

>>15109095
It causes you to wobble, thought enslaves you, there is no way out, get lost and stay lost! (read about his calamity)

[Anonymous No.15109122]

>>15109108
Good, you'd like The Master Game by DeRopp, it's largely about learning to escape language.

[Anonymous No.15109123]

>>15109107
Funny because I'm a neet but point taken. My point is though that Life in itself is a self-sustaining self-overcoming machine. To 'refute thinking' is obviously circular, since that's also just a thought you have.

[Anonymous No.15109134]

>>15109112
>damn evil useless thought that makes itself useful by making you realize it's useless

[Anonymous No.15109141]

>>15109123
Technically it's a process of cosmic heat dissipation driving adaptation.
See Jeremy England's lectures on yt

[Anonymous No.15109145]

>>15109121
I will read into it but I don't see how
>it causes you to wobble
Would necessarily be a bad thing. Adversity is the OS of existence so any wobble leads to both more stability and more wobbliness.

[Anonymous No.15109147]

>>15109145
>will read into it but I don't see how
He got lucky, 1 in a billion

[Anonymous No.15109150]

>>15109134
Like a check engine light. By the time it comes on you already know there's a problem, and it tells you nothing that will help you solve the problem.

[Anonymous No.15109151]

>>15109141
Sure but it's still pretty fucking cool

>>15109147
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.15109158]

>>15109122
i doubt the irony of recommending a book in this situation is lost on you, but if language is anything like the ladder in wittgensteins analogy, i guess reading the book wont be a waste of time

thanks, will read after i finish siddartha

[Anonymous No.15109159]

u.g. poster you are doing everyone a disservice. i understand you, but he is not an icon. give up. the only difference between you and a typical stirnerfanboy or neetchafag is that you have sincerely practiced thought control and failed. these others could not meditate their way out of a paper bag

[Anonymous No.15109161]

>>15109150
I think it's ridiculous to give thought the power of creating or atleast highlighting problems without allowing it to have problem-solving capacity too. The check light blinks. What do you do? The problem that is causing the engine check light, has 'weaknesses', i.e. fixes, that are all attained through consciously realizing them in some way. Sure, the engine check light doesn't tell me what's wrong, but surely I could have a light that goes more indepth, that tells me 'such and such problem in such and such area'

[Anonymous No.15109171]

>>15109159
Speak for yourself peasant. I can meditate just fine

[Anonymous No.15109172]

>>15109151
"I call it 'calamity' because from the point of view of one who thinks this is something fantastic, blissful and full of beatitude, love, or ecstasy, this is physical torture; this is a calamity from that point of view. Not a calamity to me but a calamity to those who have an image that something marvelous is going to happen.... I can never tell myself or anybody that I'm an enlightened man, a liberated man, or a free man, or that I am going to liberate mankind."

He was sitting on the sofa and suddenly, in his words:

"There was a tremendous outburst of energy--tremendous energy shaking the whole body and along with the body, the sofa, the chalet and the whole universe--shaking, vibrating. You cannot cause that movement.... Whether it was coming from outside or inside, from below or above, I didn't know--I couldn't locate the spot. It lasted for hours and hours.... There was nothing I could do to stop it; I was totally helpless. This went on for days."

U.G. says that there is a built-in armor created by thought, which prevents us from being affected by things. So when this ionization of thought takes place (process of losing the human form), it throws out (leaves), and there is tremendous heat in the body as a result. (Castaneda talks about the physical torment and the heat that persisted in one of his knees as he was himself losing his human form over the course of a day.)

Afterward, he was cleansed of all his past experiences. The continuity of his person had been broken into pieces; gone was any central coordinator or a reference point.

One of the major reasons why U.G. express the `calamity' in pure and simple physical and physiological terms is that it has no psychological or mystical content or religious overtones. Such a thing, U.G. says, must have happened to many people. It is not something that one could especially be prepared for. There is no method necessary for such a thing to happen.

His last words on the matter were:

"There is nothing more to write about and there never will be. If people come and ask me questions, I answer. If they don't, it makes no difference to me... I have no particular message for mankind, except to say that all holy systems for obtaining enlightenment are nonsense...the natural state can happen only through biological mutation (beckoned by the cumulative power of your intent alone, nothing else)."

Sources:

http://ug-k.blogspot.com/2007/04/aftermath-uniqueness-of-individual.html?m=1

https://people.well.com/user/jct/ugbio/ugbio9.htm

http://ugkrishnamurti.net/ugkrishnamurti-net/thought.htm

[Anonymous No.15109185]

>>15109159
OP here, you are right about
>u.g. poster you are doing everyone a disservice. i understand you, but he is not an icon. give up
He wanted everything in his named destroyed and never remembered.
>meditate
Meditation is evil and useless

[Anonymous No.15109203]

>>15109185
>contemplation is evil and useless
Anon...

[Anonymous No.15109216]

>>15109203
>Anon...
Everything you do to free yourself from the self is a self generated activity only perpetuating the self, meditation only affects the body, giving it some relief for awhile, then the hell continues, meditation is a useless novice practice, all practices are burlesque and taking you array. "There is no teaching, no teacher, no student"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGjkuFW0cY

[Anonymous No.15109224]

>>15109158
You're soaked in language (a lot of people think not having an internal monologue is subhuman or impossible) so of course it starts as text. You can't just put a hot pan right into an ice bath if you don't want it to warp

[Anonymous No.15109244]

>>15109224
Thoughtless state is impossible, it is possible thought to be freed from the strangle hold of thought, you (by you here Im talking simply you as in speech) can effectively escape the thought sphere (UG did)

[Anonymous No.15109245]

>>15109161
Consciousness is a liar though. It just takes an overabundance of low quality sense data and makes a quick sketch caricature so you can avoid tigers and piss in the bowl and not on the floor.
Nothing it says is ever accurate, often simplified to the point of danger.

White Light. If it lies to you about that...

[Anonymous No.15109257]

>>15109224
>a lot of people think not having an internal monologue is subhuman or impossible
well thank god im not one of those people, i did develop it late enough that i remember the first time i heard an internal monologue in my head (at age 5), and therefore late enough to realise that language is nothing but a translation of thought, not thought itself
and can turn it off if i try hard enough
i do see your point though

[Anonymous No.15109278]

>>15109244
I didn't say thoughtless (although it absolutely is possible) I said languageless. Language isn't thought, it's just code for verbal signals that often describe thought.

[Anonymous No.15109285]

>>15109257
Exactly, that's about the age I taught myself internal monologue, I was watching He Man in like 87, He Man thought to himself with a voice, and I tried until I got it down

[Anonymous No.15109303]

>>15109285
lol thats interesting
i was just reading a kids book

[Anonymous No.15109985]

Based...

[Anonymous No.15110261]

>>15107541
Poo detected. He’s clearly a guru. The motherfucker puts his face on his book covers.

[Anonymous No.15110476]

>>15110261
Never wrote them rejected copyright rejected profit

[Anonymous No.15111072]

He didn't refute enlightenment or religion though.
He refuted the idea of enlightenment, the fetishism of it, in which to pursue enlightenment leads you away from it.
If you read mystique of enlightenment, you will find that although he is highly apathetic and ambivalent towards other enlightened claimants (Jesus, Buddha, etc), he validates them in his own awakening narrative.
He claims powers and symbols that are rooted in the cultures of enlightenment; for instance, he says he gained the ability to see the past and future of anyone he meets (a power tied to the enlightenment of the Buddha). In his calamity he spoke of 'the saints go marching out', that is, he saw himself as all those who entered that state before him, and he explicitly mentions both the Buddha and Jesus.
So it is inaccurate to say he refuted enlightenment and religion. Rather, he rephrased enlightenment as 'natural state' and spoke out against the conceptual fetishization of religious experience.

[Anonymous No.15111101]

>>15111072
I forgot to mention as well, if his enlightenment is to be believed I think it is fair to borrow Buddhist nomenclature here and call U.G. a pratyekabuddha, that is an enlightened being who discovers the path there himself but does not seek to share it with others.
He was staunchly against the idea that it was something that could be passed on or taught, which is what put him at odds with J. Krishamurti's 'world teacher' mission.

[Anonymous No.15111116]

>>15111072
>He didn't refute enlightenment or religion though.
>He refuted the idea of enlightenment, the fetishism of it, in which to pursue enlightenment leads you away from it.
He was no fan of religion calling the religious thinking of man preventing the human species from blossoming into something unique, the idea of change is a myth and the warty outgrowth of this in whatever. He did refute enlightenment in the classical notion of it, there is no transformation just biological calamity.
>If you read mystique of enlightenment, you will find that although he is highly apathetic and ambivalent towards other enlightened claimants (Jesus, Buddha, etc), he validates them in his own awakening narrative.
He had nasty things to say about Jesus and Buddha, nothing UG has ever said has validated them, he called them frauds. Please do more research.
>In his calamity he spoke of 'the saints go marching out', that is, he saw himself as all those who entered that state before him, and he explicitly mentions both the Buddha and Jesus.
What he means here is post calamity the entire way of perceiving the world ie through thought, culture loses its grip totally, the saints go marching out refers to those culture adores as going out of his system.

[Anonymous No.15111130]

>>15111101
>mentioning Buddhism along with UG
He wouldn't like that
>He was staunchly against the idea that it was something that could be passed on or taught, which is what put him at odds with J. Krishamurti's 'world teacher' mission.
As UG would say J. Krish saw the sugar cube but never tasted it

[Anonymous No.15111153]

>>15107009
>refuted thinking
>by thinking

ill take pseuds for $500 please

[Anonymous No.15111158]

>>15111116
>the saints go marching out refers to those culture adores as going out of his system.
"suddenly you yourself, the whole consciousness, takes the shape of Buddha, Jesus, Mahavira, Mohammed, Socrates — only those people who have come into this state; not great men, not the leaders of mankind — it is very strange — but only those people to whom this kind of a thing happened...
You can say (I can't make any definite statement) probably it is because of the impact on the human consciousness of the 'explosions' of all those saints, sages and saviours of mankind that there is this dissatisfaction in you, that whatever is there is all the time trying to burst out, as it were. Maybe that is so — I can't say anything about it. You can say that they are there because they are pushing you to this point, and once the purpose is achieved they have finished their job and they go away — that is only speculation "
I said although he was apathetic of religious figures he still validates there experience, and he does it here. "Only those people who have dome into this state"
'The saints go marching out' isn't a metaphor; I agree with you that it is the loss of all conceptual thought, but he says clearly here that 'they finished their job and they go away", that is, finish their job in his enlightenment experience.

[Anonymous No.15111178]

>>15111116
>He did refute enlightenment in the classical notion of it, there is no transformation just biological calamity.
No, he refuted not the 'classical notion', but the mystique (hence the aptly named title of the book).
In fact, he relies heavily on the 'classical' symbols of it in his retelling.
Here are some samples
I do not want to be an exhibitionist, but you are doctors. There is something to the symbolism they have in India — the cobra. Do you see the swellings here? — they take the shape of a cobra. Yesterday was the new moon. The body is affected by everything that is happening around you; it is not separate from what is happening around you. Whatever is happening there, is also happening here — there is only the physical response. This is affection. Your body is affected by everything that is happening around you; and you can't prevent this, for the simple reason that the armour that you have built around yourself is destroyed, so it is very vulnerable to everything that is happening there. With the phases of the moon — full moon, half moon, quarter moon — these swellings here take the shape of a cobra. Maybe that is the reason why some people have created all these images — Siva and all those kinds of things. But why should it take the shape of a cobra? I have asked many doctors why this swelling is here, but nobody could give me a satisfactory answer. I don't know if there are any glands or anything here.
There are certain glands ... This I have discussed so many times with doctors who are doing research into the ductless glands. Those glands are what the Hindus call "chakras." These ductless glands are located in exactly the same spots where the Hindus speculated the chakras are.

[Anonymous No.15111180]

>>15111153
His calamity, and no not by thinking

[Anonymous No.15111189]

>>15111130
>He wouldn't like that
He's dead, who the fuck cares what he would or would not like.
It is a fit description of a concept that already exists, so I used it.
Also you are very rude to me to say "do more research", implying I am just writing out of my ass.

[Anonymous No.15111198]

>>15111189
>>15111178
>>15111158
Fair enough

[Anonymous No.15111205]

>>15111198
I apologize to you, if my response may have gotten heated near the end.

[Anonymous No.15111211]

>>15111205
All is well. This isn't that serious I'm tired and trying to conjure up food to eat. I appreciate the effort posting and honest engagement regarding UG.

[Anonymous No.15111340]

>>15107009
He was a mere shadow of Jiddu, also refuted himself by not following what he preached

[Anonymous No.15111346]

>>15107024
Who is Stirner 2.0?

[Anonymous No.15111437]

>>15111346
nietzsche

[Anonymous No.15111444]

>>15111340
Both wrong Jiddufag; cope with seeing the sugar but never tasting it

[Anonymous No.15111451]

>>15107009
poo detected.
also no thanks, the west has nothing to learn from your trash "culture".

[Anonymous No.15111455]

>>15111451
UG regularly talked shit about India

[Anonymous No.15111470]

>>15111444
idk I don't really take U.G.'s dismissal of J. at face value. It was J.'s lectures that eventually made U.G. undergo his calamity.
To U.G.'s own point, how does he know what state J. was in at all?

[Anonymous No.15111474]

>>15111455
seriously, do you think indian "philosophy", or your derivative (from europe) "art" or "science", can be compared to european philosophy, and (original) art or science?
you are just biologically unable to teach anything to us.

[Anonymous No.15111486]

>>15111474
UG never supported Indian philosophy he was anti eastern philosophy, he would lament about how far behind India was, he said the spiritual junk was holding them back

[Anonymous No.15111492]

>>15111444
>seeing the sugar but never tasting it
What makes you think so? Do you just believe the authority that you like? What also makes you think that U.G. was not a mere shadow of Jiddu? He might had talked shit about Jiddu, but it doesn't make any difference.

[Anonymous No.15111493]

>>15111470
>To U.G.'s own point, how does he know what state J. was in at all?
Because he knew, he was once like Jiddu

[Anonymous No.15111498]

>>15111492
I didn't like UG at first, I actually read books from Jiddu years ago and thought Jiddu was so amazing. Then it flipped, I have great respect for UG. That's as much as I'll say

[Anonymous No.15111500]

>>15111486
> indian philosophy = spiritual junk
now we are talking. what do you mean by "refuting the enlightenment"?

[Anonymous No.15111519]

>>15111498
Are you sure you read Jiddu? U.G. is just retelling Jiddu's stories.

[Anonymous No.15111522]

>>15111500
It's best you do your own personal research on UG which would take you some time if you're serious. Here is a thread linked with info>>15107025

[Anonymous No.15111527]

>>15111493
>He knew because he knew
Do you realise that you've just btfo yourself?

[Anonymous No.15111533]

>>15111522
so by enlightenment you didn't mean kant, you meant the so called moksha. well i think i will give it a try.

[Anonymous No.15111534]

>>15111493
While I like U.G., I am not entirely convinced of his assessment of J., and in most anecdotes from both sides it seems like they were pretty evenly matched.
Their biggest difference is their stance on teaching; U.G. of course holding it is impossible and counter-intuitive to convey the experience to others while J. felt a compulsion to make such an attempt for the betterment of humanity.

[Anonymous No.15111537]

>>15111527
Language is a bitch

[Anonymous No.15111539]

>>15111500
western philosophy eats breadcrumbs from upanishads where do you think hegel got his ideas?
The rest is meh but spirituality is by far better than rest, western philosophy and religion is nill except for few mystics otherwise just be a good goy and do some pointless rituals.
This is why nowdays any guru is popular in west even Sam harris is shilling for eastern philosophy.

[Anonymous No.15111544]

>>15111519
U.G Krishnamurti on Jiddu Krishnamurti (no relation) :

>Jiddu Krishnamurti always began his talks with the refrain, 'Let us take a journey together.' I asked him one day, 'Where are you? Are you there? Or are you actually taking a journey with us? You pick a subject and ask us to proceed step by step, logically, rationally, sanely and intelligently. There comes a point when you exclaim, "I got it! Somebody got it?" It is theatrics. It's a performance. To put it crudely, it is burlesque. You take off and talk of love, bliss, beatitude, immensity and so on. But we are left high and dry. You are offering us bogus chartered flights.'

>The question that was uppermost in my mind every time I encountered Jiddu Krishnamurti was this: 'What is there behind all those abstractions you are throwing at me? Is there anything at all? I am not interested in your poetic and romantic descriptions. As for your abstractions, you are no match to the mighty thinkers that India has produced—you can't hold a candle to them. The way you describe things gives me the feeling that you have at least "seen the sugar"—to use a familiar traditional metaphor—but I am not sure that you have tasted the sugar.'

>I repeated this question time and again, one way or another, at every meeting with Jiddu Krishnamurti and never received a direct or satisfactory answer. The total break came in Bombay. This was my last visit with him for a long time. Again I asked him if there was anything behind the abstractions he was throwing at me, 'Come clean for once.' Then he said with great force, 'You have no way of knowing it!' Then I said, 'If I have no way of knowing it and you have no way of communicating it, what the hell have we been doing? I have wasted seven years listening to you. You can give your precious time to somebody else. I am leaving for New York tomorrow.' Krishnamurti said, 'Pleasant journey and safe landing!

[Anonymous No.15111549]

>>15111537
You think that this is a valid excuse? Logic is a bitch too? If you can't into logic and use of language, why telling nonsense?

[Anonymous No.15111551]

>>15111533
No, I mean neither in this context, UG rejected the mind and it's goals completely. Again, it's best you do your research I provided the link above

[Anonymous No.15111555]

>>15111549
He knew by "not knowing", and by experiencing the biological calamity he saliently described. Better?

[Anonymous No.15111559]

>>15111555
>>15111549
An issue with UG is language as you are trying to conceptualize what I'm saying as something, in UG's case he's offering you nothing, but you're trying to process it into a framework, as he would say there is nothing to understand

[Anonymous No.15111564]

>>15111544
>Hey Jiddu, I don't like your abstractions because I don't like them!
Nice.
Jiddu:
"All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man."
"I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect."
"Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the understanding of a problem."
"To live is to find out for yourself what is true, and you can do this only when there is freedom, when there is continuous revolution inwardly, within yourself."
Can't you see that U.G. was mad at Jiddu literally for no reason and even more than that he then started retelling Jiddu's stories?

[Anonymous No.15111566]

>>15111539
trashiest post i ever read on 4chan.

[Anonymous No.15111569]

>>15111566
OP here that's not me BTW

[Anonymous No.15111575]

>>15111566
>butthurt seethe
good comeback anon,meditate more

[Anonymous No.15111579]

>>15111564
>meanwhile
Cmon, he had many peculiar experiences, which one might call mystical, but he never ate the sugar like UG said. He failed and fooled himself.

[Anonymous No.15111588]

>>15111555
>>15111559
Not better. Literally no one can know what state some other being was in. Do you trying to tell me that U.G. has some mystical power to read Jiddu's mind and not just make up things?

[Anonymous No.15111592]

>>15111579
>he never ate the sugar like UG said
And that's because...? Because UG said?

[Anonymous No.15111596]

>>15111588
I'm not saying that
>>15111592
Because I believe UG was correct

[Anonymous No.15111599]

>>15111579
JG was was more recognized and respected in his time tho

[Anonymous No.15111603]

>>15111599
To be expected. UG wasn't interested in popularity or spreading a message, people would come to him and he would give them nothing. He frustrated many, but many respected and thought of UG as special.

[Anonymous No.15111604]

>>15111599
so was based Osho

[Anonymous No.15111608]

>>15111596
Why do you believe that?

[Anonymous No.15111626]

>>15111604
I need to finish that Netflix special on him. He was a pimp and his gullible followers ate it up, giving him millions

[Anonymous No.15111641]

>>15111608
Because I do ;)

[Anonymous No.15111643]

>>15111604
osho is beyond based, collected over 100 luxury cars, complete luxury just chilled gave talks, hanged with celebs while his main bitch waged war on christcucks.
Noone can deni his spiritual prowess otherwise he wouldnt get close to influencing that many people.
he lived a based life

[Anonymous No.15111647]

>>15111603
He is right about the mind and thoughts that i can agree but he went full autism that man should do nothing no spiritual effort to improve his life or liberate himself

[Anonymous No.15111650]

>>15111641
How is this different from the things UG opposed? He opposed blind belief.

[Anonymous No.15111656]

>>15111626
I have read a lot about the Rajneeshis in Oregon, and have been trying to watch the documentary for awhile. Alas, I have no Netflix.
The trailer is hype as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBLS_OM6Puk

[Anonymous No.15111665]

>>15111647
He went full based mode you mean
>>15111650
UG was fully himself, an ordinary guy, take it or leave it

[Anonymous No.15111674]

>>15111656
He was a character. I used to read his stuff years ago. The Indian women I forgot here name Sheela? was a crazy bitch I'll give Osho that

[Anonymous No.15111691]

>>15111674
Yeah, that's her.

[Anonymous No.15111693]

>>15111656
Torrent it or find it online somehow

[Anonymous No.15111694]

>>15111665
>UG was fully himself
Sadly no. He had Jiddu in his mind until the end.

[Anonymous No.15111695]

>>15111665
No, objectively spiritual practice help with mental illness , happiness ,inner peace etc
As for higher states i have experience samadhi and there was consciousness shift , even if you do any spiritual practice for selfish gains in will benefit you and make life far easier. ''Dont do anything'' is bullshit and u will miss out on many delights

[Anonymous No.15111730]

>>15111695
"There are no spiritual goals at all; they are simply an extension of material goals into what you imagine to be a higher, loftier plane. You mistakenly believe that by pursuing the spiritual goal you will somehow miraculously make your material goals simple and manageable. This is in actuality not possible. You may think that only inferior persons pursue material goals, that material achievements are boring, but in fact the so-called spiritual goals you have put before yourself are exactly the same"

[Anonymous No.15111736]

Some of U.G.'s criticisms of social movements are interesting. The Anti-Bomb movement is a good example. U.G. argues that the Bomb is only an extension of the structure which has created the need for the policeman. The policeman exists in order to protect my little property from perceived threats. The Bomb, in just the same way, exists in order to protect the collective property of a society or nation from perceived threats. I cannot consistently justify the need for the policeman and yet oppose the need for the Bomb. They go together. This was U.G.'s response to Bertrand Russell when he met him at a time during which Russell was actively involved in the Anti-Bomb movement.

The ecological problem is another example. U.G. points out that the roots of the present ecological crisis lie in the Judeo-Christian belief that the human species is superior to other species because it alone was created for a grand purpose, and that, therefore, it had the privilege of dominating and using the rest of nature. Hinduism and Buddhism also share a variant of this belief, the idea that birth as a human being is the most precious and highest form of birth. It is believed that in order to attain enlightenment or moksha even the gods have to be reborn as human beings. U.G. completely rejects this belief in the special status and superiority of the human species. He observes that the human species is not created for any grander purpose than the mosquito or the garden slug is. Our erroneous belief in our own superiority has been used to justify our extermination of other species, and has led to the environmental problem. What is in question is not just the kind of technology and the economic system we have, but the structure of belief and values which drive the technology and the economic system.

But the problem endangers us, not the planet. Nature can take care of itself. So it is absurd to talk of saving the earth or saving the planet. "We are in danger, not the planet," observes U.G. The problem has to be dealt with realistically in relation to the objective of meeting the basic needs of the population of the planet. He is quick to point out that Hollywood stars are only interested in promoting themselves and not the environment. The lifestyle of these stars is itself a contributing factor to the problem. Similarly, those who write books and articles criticizing the destruction of trees are also contributing to the problem because the paper for their books and articles comes at the expense of those very trees. U.G. does not see any justification for the publication of books in the age of the computer and the video-cassette. And he is absolutely right. U.G. also warns that the cause of the environment, like other religious and political causes, will be used to justify the persecution and destruction of individuals.

[Anonymous No.15111744]

U.G. is notorious for his response to the 60's slogan "Make love, not War". He retorts that making love is war! For U.G., love-making and war-making spring from the same source, the separative structure of thought. They both presuppose a division between the "self" and the "other". This is why U.G. does not take kindly to fashionable talk about "loving relationships". He points out that the search for relationships of any kind springs from a sense of isolation, an isolation created by the separative thought structure. What one wants is to fill the emptiness or void with someone. It is a process of self-fulfillment, self-gratification. But we are not honest enough to acknowledge this sordid truth. Instead, we invent fictions like "love" and "care" to deceive ourselves about the whole affair. When these fictions are blown away, what remains expresses itself in its own way. Then there may not be "others" to love or to be loved by.

There is more than a touch of advaita in all this. I use "advaita" in its etymological sense, meaning non-division or non-duality, and not to refer to the philosophical system of Shankara. U.G.'s philosophy has little in common with Shankara's system. U.G. rejects the authority of the shruti (he says that the Vedas were the creations of acid-heads!), repudiates the assumption of Brahman, and dismisses the doctrine of the illusoriness of the world. There is no place for any kind of "consciousness" in U.G.'s philosophy, not to speak of "pure consciousness" or "witness-consciousness". And yet I use the word "advaita" because U.G.'s philosophy is permeated by a spirit of negation of all division and fragmentation. It is an interesting and original form of advaita, one that is based on a physical and physiological mode of description. For instance, U.G. claims that nature is a single unit and that the body cannot be separated from the totality of nature. There are actually no separate individual bodies. This is a form of advaita or non-dualism. It is a naturalistic or physicalistic advaita in contrast to Shankara's metaphysical or transcendental Advaita.

In U.G.'s account, all forms of destruction, disorder, and suffering flow from the division between the self and the world or nature. This divisive movement of thought came into operation with the birth of self-consciousness somewhere in the process of the evolution of mankind and marks the beginning of the end of this species. "The instrument that we think places us at the pinnacle of creation is the very thing that will lead to the destruction of not only the human species but all forms of life on this planet," declares U.G. He is thus no starry-eyed utopian or millenarian. There is no "kingdom of heaven" around any of the corners of time. On the contrary, it is the apocalypse that awaits us. This is not because of any religious or supernatural factor —

[Anonymous No.15111747]

>>15111744
>For U.G., love-making and war-making spring from the same source
Based volcel.

[Anonymous No.15111751]

>>15111730
Its not about chasing goals but a way of optimal living more congruent with life , like zen.

[Anonymous No.15111770]

>>15111747
He had 3 children btw. After his 49th year (calamity year) he never had sex again.

[Anonymous No.15111776]

>>15111751

[Anonymous No.15111790]

>>15111776
Literally Heraclitus / Buddha quote.

[Anonymous No.15111817]

>>15111790
hahaha her clit

[Anonymous No.15111840]

>>15111776
WOAAAAAAAAAAAH HE SAID THIS??????

[Anonymous No.15111886]

>>15111776
pure spiritual kitsch. after half an hour of this trash (form the penguin ug krishnamurti reader) i felt i was going to puke, materially. he acts like a "disenchanted" thinker, but he thinks like the usual worthless indian guru.

[Anonymous No.15111887]

>>15111840
Yes

[Anonymous No.15111894]

>>15111886
Lol. Watch this
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tWsNfoiU-_4

[Anonymous No.15111921]

>>15111894
>All Spiritual Teachers are Con Men
you would have been shocked if you knew how many gurus said this

[Anonymous No.15111933]

>>15111921
>gurus calling other gurus conmen
Fuck Papaji

[Anonymous No.15111964]

>In 1939, at age 21, U.G. met with renowned spiritual teacher Ramana Maharshi. U.G. related that he asked Ramana, "This thing called moksha, can you give it to me?" – to which Ramana Maharshi purportedly replied, "I can give it, but can you take it?"

wow so deep. why these charlatans fascinate lit

[Anonymous No.15111969]

>>15111964
Okay retard go read more Hegel

[Anonymous No.15111976]

>>15111964
FYI, Jung said very nice things about Ramana

[Anonymous No.15111979]

>>15111894
no thanks. im on mobile an i won't spend 1 kb for this "deep" trash anymore. i have downloaded his penguin reader which i have already ereased.

[Anonymous No.15111981]

>>15111964
You can't take moksha. My condolences. Rip in piece.

[Anonymous No.15111985]

>>15111964
and UG left in an autistic fit

[Anonymous No.15111986]

>>15111979
Okay retard

[Anonymous No.15111995]

>>15111969
why do you think there's only modern continental philosophers and eastern charlatans?

[Anonymous No.15111996]

>>15111985
Based

[Anonymous No.15112005]

>>15111995
What else is there? Who should we read?

[Anonymous No.15112010]

>>15111995
Because you same people who hate on UG will then go read the most colvolted bullshit from Deluze or Hegel.

[Anonymous No.15112016]

>>15111995
he as an easterner can only deal with charlatans, that is the entire indian philosophy and the german idealism. hegel is by no means representative of the continental let alone western canon.

[Anonymous No.15112018]

>>15112010

this is more of an issue of these guys not knowing the mystical nature of a philosopher like hegel. they are just uninitiated

[Anonymous No.15112019]

>>15112005
To add, you can't handle UG, to be honest he's frightening only take him seriously if you're ready to give up your illusions

[Anonymous No.15112024]

>>15112005
plato and aristotle already decoded philosophy. why would one unironically read anything past them? honestly i have pity on those who read modern authors, especially kant

[Anonymous No.15112028]

>>15112016
UG studied western philosophy before his calamity.

[Anonymous No.15112038]

>>15112016
UG would bash Indian life and charltons constantly that's why I hate when retarded contrarians read some wiki paragraph or 10 pages of the Mystique of Enlightenment and already characterize him

[Anonymous No.15112042]

>>15112024
>muh Greeks
Lol. Why would anyone unironically read anything post-upanishadic?

[Anonymous No.15112047]

>>15109022
Schopenhauer?

[Anonymous No.15112051]

>>15112047
He synthesized his stuff from brown people lol

[Anonymous No.15112056]

>>15112042
>muh upanishads

[Anonymous No.15112058]

>>15112056
Cope. Upanishads are too deep for you, lad.

[Anonymous No.15112070]

>>15112056
Nietszche, Kant, Schopenhauer all had great respect for the Hindus.

[Anonymous No.15112082]

>>15112005
for epistemology alone:
- duns scotus, ockham and the english nominalism
- descartes
- bacon, gassendi and some minor libertines like evremond
- hobbes ("veritas enim in dictu, non in re"), which we may include among the nominalists
- galileo
- locke
- CONDILLAC
- KANT
- lichtenberg, schopenhauer, leopardi
- comte, mill
- russell, CARANP (not husserl, not wittgenstein)

[Anonymous No.15112090]

>>15112082

too many outdated scientists in there

[Anonymous No.15112092]

>>15112082
>not husserl, not wittgenstein
why?

[Anonymous No.15112095]

>>15112082
Enjoy the merry-go-round

[Anonymous No.15112096]

>>15112070
i dont have great respect for nietzsche, kant and schopenhauer, anon.

>>15112082
yikes

[Anonymous No.15112111]

>>15112070
> nietszche, kant
not true, both of them despided indian philosophy-religion , and btw nietzsche doesn't and will never matter
> schopenhauer
only in a picturesque way, his true mindset is voltairian and kantian.

[Anonymous No.15112122]

>>15112082
>all this post-upanishadic garbage

[Anonymous No.15112133]

>upanishads
>eastern philosophy
>yoga
>advaita
>buddhism
>zen
peak self help desu, it's like this is the new stoic wave. anons can't name a single important teaching by ramana or ug who lived his entire life devoted to refuting himself. it's all about foreign = good, the most exotic = better
>>>/r3ddit/

[Anonymous No.15112145]

>>15112133
>can't comprehend or handle UG
UG has no teachings. You are the redditor btw

[Anonymous No.15112149]

>>15112056

t. retard

[Anonymous No.15112153]

>>15112133
I vehemently disagree with you, good sir. I say this as someone who is bordering towards Lutheranism.
There is much good in Buddhism, in faith-based thinkers such as Shinran, if you were only to read them. They search for Christ without the direct teachings of the gospels, and in doing so recreate a true faith without the true object. I commend many of these writers.

[Anonymous No.15112154]

>>15112133
>>upanishads
>>eastern philosophy
>>yoga
>>advaita
>>buddhism
>>zen
This has nothing to do with UG, that's the other anons

[Anonymous No.15112156]

>>15112133
Has to be bait

[Anonymous No.15112158]

>>15112133
yes eastern is superior ,western mind is cucked and retarded no wonder mass depression and anxiety .
10 minutes of meditation refutes whole west the only competent teaching are that which are similar to eastern read meister eckhart
cope incel

[Anonymous No.15112160]

>>15112145
what is there to comprehend if he pretends he is just a fart in the wind? joke is on you who reads him

[Anonymous No.15112164]

>>15112133

if you can't tell the difference between self help and metaphysics, you have bigger problems on your hands

[Anonymous No.15112165]

>>15112133
back to plebbit you silly christ cuck

[Anonymous No.15112170]

>>15107009
This man has refuted nothing, he literally just said "I dont care" about those things.

[Anonymous No.15112171]

>>15112154
what that anon posted (upamishads and similar garbage) has EVERYTHING to do with "ug", even if "ug" tries to conceal it.

[Anonymous No.15112187]

"Thought is not the instrument for achieving anything other than the goals set before us by our culture or society or whatever you want to call it. The basic problem we have to face today is this: the cultural input, or what society has placed before us as the goal for all of us to reach and attain, is the enemy of this living organism. Thought can only create problems; it cannot help us to solve any.” Thought comes with a built-in program to create the next goal to be achieved – be it an educational degree, a house purchase, a promotion, a start-up, poverty alleviation or even enlightenment. Once one goal is met, another is generated automatically. Thought makes sure that happiness lies in the future, not in the present moment. How can such an instrument help us live a peaceful life ever?"

The past 70 years has been rather peaceful and large scale wars/violence has decline throughout existence. There's a great argument to be made that the enlightenment principals and certain forms of governance and belief encouraged that.

Life creates problems of its own, death is inevitable, sickness is inevitable, and human nature is fallible. The enlightenment thinkers are closer to the truth than this theory

[Anonymous No.15112189]

>>15109216
>meditation only affects the body
Uhhh wrong

[Anonymous No.15112199]

>>15112187
We are doomed

[Anonymous No.15112206]

>>15112156
>>15112158
>>15112164
>>15112165
>NOOOOOOO DON'T SHIT ON MY HINDU SELF HELP CHARLATANISM IT'S SO DEEP
>YOU DONT COMPREHEND UG!!!

[Anonymous No.15112208]

>>15112199
>>15112187
We were doomed preciously because of thought eventually that is

[Anonymous No.15112213]

>>15112133
Imagine being so buttblasted because of superior teachings of buddhism and advaita.

[Anonymous No.15112215]

>>15112206
You can't handle UG you think too much, you love illusions

[Anonymous No.15112220]

>>15112199
How so.

[Anonymous No.15112223]

>>15112213
imagine being a western man cucking himself for "eastern thought"

[Anonymous No.15112226]

>>15112213
> a bunch niggers bathing in their own piss and shit
> superior teachings
choose one

[Anonymous No.15112228]

>>15112223
Imagine cucking yourself to both

[Anonymous No.15112235]

>>15112206
>>15112223
>>15112226
Dude there's no need to be so much mad if you don't understand 3k years old teachings. Go read some more smooth literature like Whitehead or Guenon.

[Anonymous No.15112239]

>>15112226
I'll choose both

[Anonymous No.15112243]

>>15112240
>what is open individualism

[Anonymous No.15112247]

>>15112240
He didn't write that that's some random who wrote that he sprinkled in some of the things UG talked about and added his own commentary

[Anonymous No.15112258]

>>15112235
you think guenon would support this contemporary wave of eastern interest? lol. this is precisely what he diagnosed as a symptom of the modern crisis. it has nothing traditional in it, it's sterile as academic scholarship

[Anonymous No.15112259]

>>15112223
>NOOOOOOOO JUST BE A DEPRESSED LOSER LIKE ME TRAPPED IN ILLUSION HURDUR
i prefer samadhi, cope depressed brainlet

[Anonymous No.15112262]

>>15112235
i love how you imply (in multiple posts) "that the older, the better". exoticism and antiquarian kitsch aside, a disgusting optimism lays at the basis of such a way of "thinking".

[Anonymous No.15112264]

>>15112258
UG was against everything eastern philosophy ffs cunt he ravaged against the whole thing

[Anonymous No.15112274]

>>15112259
yes, true enlightened anons free of illusions are shitposting on lit. i'll take my "illusions" any time over cucking myself to eastern larping

[Anonymous No.15112277]

>>15112264
The irony is that all his sayings are just retelling neoadvaita, and neoadvaita is literally retelling of upanishads

[Anonymous No.15112281]

>>15112274
Western philosophy will lead you nowhere you know that right retard?

[Anonymous No.15112288]

In this man's face are the same expressions as any power freak or sociopath.

[Anonymous No.15112290]

>>15112262
I was not implying that, stop using your imagination. Western philosophy (eastern too though) eats breadcrumbs from Upanishads, that's why it's better.

[Anonymous No.15112293]

>>15112281
again you are reducing western philosophy to modern authors. there's more to it than your umwelt perceives

[Anonymous No.15112294]

>>15112281
t. Person chained up by vitamin deficiency and stimulus overload

You're just chronically ill, moron.

[Anonymous No.15112298]

>>15112258
tradition is garbage

[Anonymous No.15112301]

>>15112290
what did you learn with the upanishads?

[Anonymous No.15112307]

>>15112258
>this is precisely what he diagnosed as a symptom of the modern crisis
Any exact quotes?

[Anonymous No.15112308]

>>15112298
so you are just in for the self help part or what?

[Anonymous No.15112309]

>>15112294
>>15112293
The merry-go-round is fun enjoy it you smug cunt

[Anonymous No.15112312]

>>15112281
western philosophy did lead us to science, for instance. but most importantly western philosophy is often needed to understand western architecture, figurative art, and classical music. these latter things are the peak of the human intellect, not philosophy and especially not eastern "philosophy".

[Anonymous No.15112313]

>>15112301
Nothing, instead I unlearn everything.

[Anonymous No.15112314]

>>15112307
no quotes. whole books only: 1. crisis and 2. reign of quantity

[Anonymous No.15112317]

>>15112312
The human intellect is also the cause of all of humans problems

[Anonymous No.15112319]

>>15112308
for the truth part. are you implying that there is binary choice between modern plastic self-help and "true" tradition?

[Anonymous No.15112330]

>>15112314
Why did he turned to Islam?

[Anonymous No.15112331]

>>15112308
>Muh self help
Its anti self the real stuff is not about affirming "you" you nigger

[Anonymous No.15112334]

>>15112313
DEEP. a brick in your head would also make you unlearn everything

i'll keep waiting for a single authentic teaching

>>15112319
there's no truth outside of tradition

[Anonymous No.15112335]

>>15112274
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO U CANT JUST WHATEVER U WANT YOU MUST LIVE IN A CAVE
Seethe brainlet, karma yoga is active spiritual life , shitposting is zen quintessence

[Anonymous No.15112339]

"he aims to demolish any belief that is brought before him. He leads his listeners through a deconstruction of spirituality, enlightenment, gurus, and all of the other trappings of religious striving. He repeatedly emphasizes that he has nothing to offer anyone and that any attempt to achieve "self-realization" is pointless. He is so enigmatic that it is of special interest that the book includes his own account of his life and a description of his experience of the "natural state," his preferred term for what others might call enlightenment."

"Krishnamurti's radical approach is evident even in his copyright statement, in which he gives permission to anyone to reproduce or "even claim authorship" of the material in the book without his consent. This work will not have wide appeal, but it would make a good purchase for libraries with strong patron interest in Eastern philosophies and their modem exponents, even though Krishnamurti would certainly deny being the latter."

"U.G. was a cynical contrarian, if one might term him thus. He re-wrote the rules of what is perceived as religion. It is said he was not a guru or a philosopher. His ideas and statements are iconoclastic and are antagonistic to the commonly held values of life. "There is no such thing as truth, the only thing which is actually there is your 'logically ascertained premise', which you call truth.

"Your minds pose as much a threat to the future as nuclear weapons."


some stuff I've found on UG, still don't agree with his theories, but felt like people might want some commentary and quotes

[Anonymous No.15112346]

>>15112317
i will take them gladly if it means that they will also give me all the treasures of thought i listed above. of course if you - as a BIOLOGICALLY inferior easterner - won't ever find any treasures from thought, and you will gladly amputate your already laughable intellectual faculties. i understand that. just, it's not the western way.

[Anonymous No.15112348]

>>15112334
>there's no truth outside of tradition
Sweet delusions

[Anonymous No.15112350]

>>15112339
He destroyed everyone and everything. Truly incredible.

[Anonymous No.15112357]

>>15112346
>course if you
*course you

[Anonymous No.15112358]

>>15112331
>dude kill ur ego become enlightened
self help on a more dangerous level. at least normal self help doesnt pose itself as metaphysical truth

[Anonymous No.15112359]

>>15112317
Are humans problems bad, greek tragedy does a great job showing the bitter reality of life.

[Anonymous No.15112360]

>>15112346
Why do you want these so called treasures?

[Anonymous No.15112365]

>>15112360
because they please me, retard.

[Anonymous No.15112367]

>>15112358
Only the self wants to remove the self. You can't handle this you pussy

[Anonymous No.15112368]

>>15112348
>truth is acquired through sterile reading of eastern pajeets

[Anonymous No.15112372]

>>15112312
>trying to understand art with intellect
kek are you literally retarded?Creativity is the complete opposite of the mind ,you're completely cucked by your mind like most westerners and therefore forever separate from the soul of art ,you can never experience it as it was to be experienced and understood.
Face it anon you;re a peak bugman.
Meditation objectively improves creativity middle path of participating in the world while being for of it , the alchemical union of west/east sun and moon is ideal.

[Anonymous No.15112375]

>>15112346
Thought is not real, you're barking that's all.

[Anonymous No.15112378]

>>15112365
Why do you want pleasure?

[Anonymous No.15112383]

>>15112368
There's more to UG Krishnamurti than any boring whitoid you've read, but you enjoy going in circles.

[Anonymous No.15112389]

>>15112372
lmao an indian nigger trying to teach me what art is and where it comes from. peak dystopia.

[Anonymous No.15112391]

>>15112368
>this binary thinking in extremes

[Anonymous No.15112397]

>>15112378
because pleasure pleases me, retard.

[Anonymous No.15112401]

>>15112389
Art is totally subjective

[Anonymous No.15112406]

>>15112397
Why do you need to be pleased?

[Anonymous No.15112407]

>>15112372
>dude just meditate lmao
spiritual intuition doesnt work like that. people like you might never have a glimpse of true intuition since you confuse it with psychic intuition
>dude meditate for 10 min and you'll have transcended western thought

[Anonymous No.15112409]

>>15112401
of course it isn't. what about science? is it subjactive too? why didn't you niggers have science until we came accross you?

[Anonymous No.15112416]

>>15112406
because it pleases me, retard.

[Anonymous No.15112418]

>>15112407
There's no distinction between psychic and spiritual. There are no distinctions at all, it's your mind hallucinating about them and takes them too seriously

[Anonymous No.15112419]

"Celebrities who went missing"

Parveen Babi, 8 months

"The Bollywood siren left the industry and travelled with her spiritual guru UG Krishnamurti. However, friends didn't know where she was until she was found on April 7, 1984 at JFK airport, handcuffed by police and kept with mentally-ill patients because she failed to produce her identification papers. In 1989, she returned to Mumbai, a shadow of herself and diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia."

what's going on here

[Anonymous No.15112420]

DUDE JUST MEDITATE SO DEEP
I NEVER READ THE GREEKS BUT I GUESS THESE PAJEETS ARE SUPERIOR LOOK I CAN MEDITATE TOO

[Anonymous No.15112430]

>>15112409
Science is different, we are talking art. How is art not subjective? Lol this is your brain on nationalism and jingoism

[Anonymous No.15112435]

>>15112416
Are you trying to use circular logic and pretending to not being a retard at the same time?

[Anonymous No.15112436]

>>15112418
>There's no distinction between psychic and spiritual.
wrong. on what basis do you say this? every tradition puts a distinction between pysche and spirit. present your reasoning or be quiet with your opinions

[Anonymous No.15112443]

>>15112419
They were just friends, the Indian tabloids just to even call UG her BF. It's nothing, she was losing it for awhile, UG tried to help her, but it was impossible, she had very nice things to say about UG she called him a "perfect human"

[Anonymous No.15112444]

>>15112436
Define psyche and spirit first

[Anonymous No.15112456]

>>15112444
are you for real? you are the one who said there's no distinction between them

[Anonymous No.15112464]

>>15112430
epistemologically speaking art is "sub-false", that is neither subjective nor objective. saying that art is subjective is like saying that beauty is subjective, saying that beauty is subjective is like saying that sophie turner and some indian negress are equally beautiful in THIS specific time and space (including all its referents), which they obviously aren't. i would rather say that beauty, true beauty is a western philosophical concept. your eastern animalesque concept of "beauty" is what we un the west call "eroticism".

[Anonymous No.15112468]

>>15112389
not a hindu
mensa member so i can tell you're a midwit brainlet that doesnt understand how creativity works , go read biographies .
>>15112407
>t. what is stream entry
go meditate and dont be a brainlet
Why cant a western ever understand zen? they cant shut their automatic thoughts for even 2minutes
GONNA THINK AGHHHHHHHHH THOOOOOM

[Anonymous No.15112476]

>>15112456
You are the one who first used them, how would I know what you meant by them?

[Anonymous No.15112478]

>>15112435
this is not circular logic. your are trying to demonstrate, i sense it, that "pleasure" is an "illusion", where "illusion" is no more than a derogatory term used by you easterners to get rid of something. "illusion" has nothing to do with logic, it's just a coping strategy.

[Anonymous No.15112486]

>>15112468
> mensa member
now post you IQ provided by mensa, retard.

[Anonymous No.15112497]

>>15112478
It is circular logic.
>your are trying to demonstrate, i sense it
Please stop using your imagination. Pleasure is not an illusion. Need for pleasure is.

[Anonymous No.15112511]

>>15112497
> Pleasure is not an illusion. Need for pleasure is.
that is the same fucking thing, retard. i love how you asian niggers try to seem witty with your low IQ puns, which constitute your entire charlatan "philosophy".

[Anonymous No.15112521]

>>15112511
Pleasure affects the body. Cope whitoid

[Anonymous No.15112533]

>>15112511
No it's not the same, it's not a pun and I'm nor asian nor westerner. Do you have anything to say other than /b/ tier excuses?

[Anonymous No.15112548]

>>15112521
1. there is no body, what you call body is a concept of your mind.
2. yes, pleasure entirely identifies with phisiological pleasure (fucking, eating, shitting) in inferior organisms, like animals and easterners. westerner peak pleasure is of the intellectual type.

[Anonymous No.15112554]

>>15112486
doxing myself or wasting effort over random npc tard , hard choice rly
You're still a retard any creative person will laugh at your left brain attempt at art , meditate leads to more creativity proven by studies and common sense

[Anonymous No.15112565]

>>15112548
>he thinks that his pleasure is of the intellectual type

[Anonymous No.15112572]

>>15112554
> doxing myself or wasting effort over random npc tard , hard choice rly
i just proved you are a poor, dumb charlatan who can't substantiate his own claims. has anybody asked your IQ? nope, you brought it in on your own. and you can't prove it. and this is the method itself of the entire eastern "thought".

[Anonymous No.15112580]

>>15112468
>>15112372
>>15112165
>>15112335
>>15111695
>>15111751
>>15112111
>>15112158
>>15112554
what these posts have in common? they were all made by the biggest samefagger and new age shill

he posts

Meister Eckhart
pepespirit5.jpg
pepecross.jpg
shankara2.jpg
demiurge.png
pepespirit9.jpg
occ2.jpg
zen.jpg
pepespirit4.jpg
pepebuddha.jpg
wagie.jpg
alchemy.jpg
images (51).jpg
occultpepe2
alchemyy.jpg
zenpepe.jpg
sun.jpg
pepejung.jpg
castaneda
enochian

>refrain from posting
start from here
all that superior meditation still didn't prevent you from becoming the worst lit poster

[Anonymous No.15112590]

>>15112565
not mine, brainlet. i could be anyone. artistic and scientific pleasure is of the intellectual type.

[Anonymous No.15112598]

>>15112590
>artistic
such as?

[Anonymous No.15112599]

>>15112590
Pleasure is not divided into types. However you are free to delude yourself into thinking that there is a division

[Anonymous No.15112611]

>>15112598
lmao do you want me to teach you art history, which in europe tracks back to lascaux and altamira (btw an artistic complexity that the east has never reached) ? then pay me.

[Anonymous No.15112617]

>>15112580
>triggered chrickcuck
btfoed in several threads still cant come up with decent argument,now stalking like full schizo
>>15112572
dodging an argument like a retard nice, read biographies of creative geniuses then comeback

[Anonymous No.15112624]

>>15112599
i never said that. i said there is a hierarchy of pleasures based on the organic complexity of those feeling it. i think this is empirical and even too obvious.

[Anonymous No.15112638]

>>15112617
> muh creative skills
you talk like a redditor and thot, just stop annoying me. art has everything to do with thought, EVERYTHING.

[Anonymous No.15112663]

>>15112617
you have been retoactively refuted and BTFOed by guenon

[Anonymous No.15112664]

You have to act before you're able to attempt rationalizing your actions, civilizations did precisely that. science is but 500 years old, we couldn't rationalize the world, so we used myths and oral stories. I have much faith in all of that than I can in what UG teaches.

[Anonymous No.15112667]

>>15112638
left brain brainletism , how come creative masterpiece creators disagree with that?

[Anonymous No.15112672]

>>15112663
christcuck you can do better then that

[Anonymous No.15112678]

>>15112664
this is exactley the correct attitude towards the eastern garbage.

[Anonymous No.15112689]

>>15112672
how about this:
>NEET
>depressed
>claims he's mensa level
>has never been initiated only LARPs
>shills eastern shit for hours on lit
>pretends he's enlightened
>spams guenon even though guenon retroactively refuted him

guess all the esoterism paid off huh. truly the sign of an enlightened western man who cucks himself over pajeet poo. how old btw

[Anonymous No.15112696]

>>15112664
UG teaches nothing he would regularly dab and dunk on eastern philosophy and India how many times have I said that this thread? In the OP I say he refuted eastern philosophy

[Anonymous No.15112701]

>>15112678
his ideology becomes a religion in-itself and can radicalize people with nihilistic tendencies, sad

[Anonymous No.15112705]

>>15112689
OP here you've been talking to some other anon the whole time practically

[Anonymous No.15112720]

>>15112701
He was not a nihilist, he never argued against making money or anything such as functioning adeptly in society. He was not at odds with society, he was no at odds with himself so it was impossible. Fucking whitoids

[Anonymous No.15112722]

>>15112705
...

[Anonymous No.15112727]

>>15112689
Why are you projecting so hard christcuck? are you that depressed and anxious?
Try meditating more.
I have dont Rite of Ouza’s Ninefold Merkaba
8576 - 7829 - 5411 - 2997 - 1431 - 197 - 9 - Ø
The 9=Ø Maya Body of Ouza
Solar and lunar initiation and had nondual samadhi prior
When you a buger brainlet learns what either of those mean comeback until then dont engage with spiritual matters since you're too much a nigger for this topic.

[Anonymous No.15112733]

>>15112722
You'd probably like UG

[Anonymous No.15112769]

>>15112727
>Try meditating more.
what good did you get of it? i observe all of your posts and all i see is spiritual delusion and counter initiation. you are the embodiment of guenon`s definition of counter tradition.

[Anonymous No.15112815]

>>15112769
muh tradition its just ego dogmatic shit i only value practicality also i dont post guenon expect the meme, what is your practice ? Exoteric religious practice is 0 only inner realm is real spiritual cultivation

[Anonymous No.15112886]

>>15112815
>muh tradition its just ego dogmatic shit
you are too proud for the spiritual path, it shows. you don`t realize all the exoteric rites exist as a cofessional practice for self awareness, they are more effective than any shitty meditation. any sufi mystic would rightfully slap you for disregarding the rites and shilling esoterism for the masses. never gonna make it bro

i dont have any practice
>i only value practicality
western mentality at its extreme

[Anonymous No.15112990]

>>15112886
Thats why the masses are so awakened , exoteric rites are memes for people stuck in a spiritual desert devoid any inner richness. Face it you're afraid to look within and face the abyss in the depth of unconscious , true journey is inwards. Some even suicide after meditation (vipasana cases)its the most honorable fight one can face , external are just easy cope and go continue wage life while expecting spiritual rewards.

[Anonymous No.15113742]

>>15112010
imagine complaining about a book being convoluted on a literature board. i hope you catch the virus m8.

[Anonymous No.15114015]

This whole thread is an exchange of thought. If thought is rejected, then this thread is useless and so is OP for making this thread.