Can I get a quick rundown of buddhism and/or daosim?

[Anonymous No.15089120]

Am a complete brainlet when it comes to eastern thought/religion. Have been reading into daoism and I think it says to radically be in harmony with the natural order, don't try to force things and go with the flow this is the way to peace in this world. Buddhism says that this world is suffering and you cannot find fulfillment in it? Help a brother out.

[Anonymous No.15089168]

>>15089120
Buddhism rejects suffering and joy and all emotion as they take away from achueving Nirvana

[Anonymous No.15089175]

Confucianism
>If you don't be nice to your parents they'll drown you in a river
>If you don't be nice to your kids they'll leave you in a fucking ditch when you're too old to climb out
>Make up a bunch of rituals and agree on what they mean, or else people will lie to you

Buddhism
>Don't kill yourself, kill your self.
>Train your brain before you do it.

Taoism
>The grass that bends in the wind lives; the grass that doesn't breaks
>Bend enough and you can live forever

[Anonymous No.15089196]

>>15089175
Wow, this is a really shitty vague way to describe it to a layman.

[Anonymous No.15089246]

I tried to get into taoism but I didn't get it. It doesn't have any rules or morals. What I saw is anybody can do their own thing even if what they do is completely different and they can still be following their own definition of "tao". Theirs no uniformity is what I'm saying, or if there is I didn't get it

[Anonymous No.15089263]

>>15089246
Why must there be uniformity?

[Anonymous No.15089276]

>>15089196
Confucianism, founded by Confucius, essentially seeks to solve the broad problem of complete and utter political and moral chaos experienced by Ancient China. Confucius' primary theory is that morality flows both top-down and bottom-up. Thus, Confucius sought both to teach his doctrine to both the common man and the political military elite of fractured ancient China. The basic unit of Confucius' ideal society was the family, which is based in rigid relations. All of society flows out of this, using familial relations as models for other relations. The relationship between father and son, father and daughter, mother and son, mother and daughter, etc. Strong families form a strong bedrock, allowing morality to flow upward. At a practical level, Confucius was HORRIFIED by parents abandoning their children and children abandoning their parents. A social welfare system is built into the Confucian family, as Confucius believed that people commit crime from immorality deriving from material wants. The Son of Heaven, the Emperor, is also key, as he wields absolute power. The Emperor must thus be good too, in order to form a strong capstone, from which morality can flow down.

Confucius advocated for meritocracy in government as a means of rejecting the clannishness of politics. This may seem odd given his glorification of the family, but it is very much necessary to ensure that the Emperor, who is father to all, gives what is just and righteous to everyone (his sons and daughters). A father must hire the best tutors for his children, therefore he must have the best bureaucrats for his subjects. Examination was the key to this, and Imperial Exams system was rooted in Confucian philosophy.

Ritual is necessary to ensure proper interaction between individuals, however, primarily because we can't be sure what anyone truly means. Thus, we use codified, standardized rituals, wherein every movement is carefully understood, to communicate. This is related to how the Chinese written language works, but it applies in other contexts. Ritual is necessary for communicating across every boundary we as humans have between each other, because it can communicate far more than mere words can.

Metaphysically, Confucius expounded a Dao, a way. This way is a process, almost, that we can tap into. By tapping into this process, we humans will live happily and justly, harmoniously and righteously.

[Anonymous No.15089287]

>>15089263
To me it didn't make sense that there's a philosophy where everyone is doing something different

[Anonymous No.15089332]

>>15089287
There are certain schools and sects of Taoism that rose and fell in popularity throughout the ages. Taoism is just less adamant on certain points and an enlightened individual would be highly regarded without his status and school in mind.
Why is it bad for a philosophy to allow for broader interpretations?

[Anonymous No.15089372]

>>15089276
Also at this time, is a man named Lao Tzu. Maybe. We don't know. Lao Tzu is one of many men who wrote on what he saw as an alternative Dao to that of Confucius (some of the best evidence of Lao Tzu is actually Confucius referencing him). Taoism isn't actually a "thing" per se, but is rather a construct made by Christian Missionaries to better attempt to combat Chinese intellectuals. Taoism is a rough hodgepodge of intellectual and mystical traditions and strains that broadly seek to tap into a Dao, similar to that of Confucius. Taoism stresses the imperfection of language, similar to Confucius, and also like Confucius seeks to sidestep it. However, it does this not by attempting to codify ritual, but instead through using action and lived experience to communicate higher truths between people.

In this sense, Taoism is almost a religion of the Chinese soul and culture. While at a base level, Taoism is concerned with achieving immortality, this is really secondary to the broader goal of enlightenment (achieved by perfectly engaging in the Dao; the Dao is not a thing you can engage in henosis with, it is a process you walk along; a way). When one follows the Dao perfectly, you cannot die, at a metaphysical level. This leads to a lot of whacky shit (Qin Shi Huangdi, the first Chinese Emperor, died from drinking Mercury trying to do this) that's really secondary to the actual philosophy, but it cannot be ignored. Taoist Astrology, for example, is an ENORMOUS part of Chinese metaphysics.

Taoism is less concerned with ethics, as the Dao is perfect and good and wholesome. If you're following the Dao, all will be well, no matter what happens to you. It's not that you shouldn't care, but rather than if you do it right, you won't, because there won't be anything to care about. This is an ethical statement, mind you, so "Taoism has no ethics" is not the case, they're just transcendent.

Words cannot do this justice, so again
>A river does not break a stone by striking it, but by peacefully gliding over it.
>Grass that bends in the wind lives forever; grass that doesn't breaks.
Think on this.

[Anonymous No.15089389]

>>15089332
Nothing is bad about it but pic related is me when trying to understand anything about taoism. Is it just be one with nature and be "empty" or is more nuanced and complex?

[Anonymous No.15089421]

>>15089120
The three great thinkers of the East were Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tzu, and one day the gods summoned them together to taste vinegar. Buddha, when he tasted the vinegar said it was sour, Confucius said it was bitter, and Lao Tzu said it was sweet.

The meaning of the parable is that vinegar is life; Buddha said sour because it was full of disappointment , Confucius said bitter because it was full of degenerates, Lao Tzu said sweet because life is the Dao and the Dao is sweet.

[Anonymous No.15089460]

>>15089372
Buddhism is a different animal, and is not Chinese. Shakyamuni Gautama was born in north India, his life story is irrelevant here, and taught The Dharma. The basic insight into Buddhism is that people's suffering is caused by their incorrect view of how the world works. Not of what, but of how. People's incorrect views lead to craving, and ignorance. We're so trapped in our ignorance we can't even see that we're ignorant. We see things that aren't real. This is Samsara, a cyclic existence of ignorance begetting suffering which begets ignorance which begets suffering. To stop Samsara, as Sammsara is a process, not a place, is Nirvana, which is also a process and not a place. Samsara is characterized by Dukkha, which is erroneously translated as "suffering", which has connotations of violence and pain, but it's more than that. Dukkha is craving, unhappiness, the subtle unease temporal life gives you. Dukkha is not being happy at your birthday because you know the party will end. Dukkha is also getting your leg cut open and lying in a ditch bleeding to death. It's not that there's not nice things out there, or that life is all suffering and pain, but that these things exist and cannot be escaped through self mortification or through self indulgence (the Buddha knows this for reasons that are unimportant). Dukkha is the varied pain we feel because we are temporary. Our ignorance is caused by our attempts to cope with that.

The Buddha taught four things:
>Dukkha is.
>Things lead to Dukkha.
>Nirvana is.
>Things lead to Nirvana.
Buddhism as a practice is doing the things that lead to Nirvana, and not doing the things that lead to Samsara. In order to do this, you meditate in order to train your mind so that you can do this. You must literally exercise your mind for the task ahead. Your very mind itself has been warped by Samsara.

While the focus in Buddhism is on the life of a Bhikku/Bhikkuni (a monk/nun), there is a LOT concerning the laity, lay ethics, and lay morality. The majority of Buddhists are not monks or nuns, and the Buddha was just as concerned about them as he was about monks. There's a number of ethical codes and stuff, but they aren't really important here. Buddhist ethics are both virtue ethics and teleological: the goal is to minimize Dukkha. It's NOT to make a better Samsara, and it's NOT to do some utilitarian fuckery, however.

When Buddhism entered China, it was violently suppressed, btw. While in time it would be accepted, Buddhism was always in intellectual combat with Taoism for metaphysics and mysticism, and with Confucianism for ethics and bureaucratic patronage (monks and nuns fulfilled a role akin to Christian monks as administrators and bureaucrats).

[Anonymous No.15089493]

>>15089120
>Buddhism says that this world is suffering and you cannot find fulfillment in it?
Buddhism says that suffering is an inherent, inescapable part of life. "Suffering" in Buddhism means many things, from what you would consider conventional suffering to things like being separated from things that give you pleasure, or simply having the knowledge that no matter how much you're enjoying something at a given moment, you will eventually tire of it. Even the happiest things will inevitably become boring or mundane.

Recognizing that all pleasures are transient and imperfect and it's impossible to find a source of perfect, unending happiness, the Buddhist approach is to train the mind toward dispassion: to be indifferent to both pleasant and unpleasant things. Eventually, once you become freed from the desire to attain pleasant things and from the desire to avoid unpleasant things, you reach a state of peaceful, balanced calm that is far superior to any pleasurable state. If you buy into the spiritual side of Buddhism, attaining this state also frees you from the endless cycle of reincarnation.

[Anonymous No.15089512]

>>15089493
Kinda sounds like stoicism in some ways

[Anonymous No.15089514]

>>15089246
must be confusing living inside your head

[Anonymous No.15089572]

>>15089389
Being empty would be more towards Zen Buddhism. Emptiness is just as much part of the Dao because as fullness because everything is the way of the Dao. Just as nothingness is part of the Dao. And in this spirit Daoists tend to embrace life a little more than followers of Confucianism and Buddhism.
Daoism comes with quite a lot of cultural influences and rites that we often overlook in the west where we tend to only look at the philosophical nature. These all play together in the great scheme of things.
The technicalities are a little bit hard to differentiate for us westerners because we don't have the access to the language and the finer observations. I have to admit sometimes it just sounds like some big "lmao whatever dude" excuse. But it also is quite poetic and calming at times.
If you want to go deeper into taoistic history and practices then this here is quite an encompassing start in my opinion. It deals less with the philosophy but more with the religious aspects which are often overlooked.

[Anonymous No.15089573]

>>15089389
The problem lies in your western perspective, which rests validity on strict rules and definitions to inform validity. Perhaps the most foundational aspect of eastern philosophy/religion is an understanding of the lack of such rigid structures.

[Anonymous No.15089612]

>>15089421
>The meaning of the parable is that vinegar is life; Buddha said sour because it was full of disappointment , Confucius said bitter because it was full of degenerates, Lao Tzu said sweet because life is the Dao and the Dao is sweet.
Jesus turned it to wine and saved everyone.

[Anonymous No.15089618]

>>15089460
>>15089372
>>15089276
Really based effort posts btw.
These are all pretty spot on as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous No.15089790]

>>15089512
There's a bunch of parallels or similarities that can be drawn between stoicism, taoism, and zen/mahayana buddhism, especially when it comes to rooting yourself into reality and living in harmony with (stoicism) or as (taoism/zen) nature.

[Anonymous No.15089835]

>>15089168
its more nuanced than that, and there are very many schools of thought that arrive at the idea so to speak through different ways

[Anonymous No.15089846]

>>15089276
>>15089372
>>15089460
>>15089493
wow jeezs thank you bb

[Anonymous No.15089872]

>>15089276
>>15089372
>>15089460
Saved. Thx for these bro

[Anonymous No.15089898]

>>15089460
You seem pretty well read on chinese/asian philosophy, anon. Any bibliography recs?

[Anonymous No.15090368]

>>15089612
Kek simple as

[~[[[-_-]]]~ Urantia Thought Ad(...) No.15090403]

QUANZHEN DAO (COMPLETE REALITY TAOISM)
".. a number of its artifacts, such as the exercise system known as Tai Chi Chuan and certain meditation techniques, have long since passed into the public domain as part of the general lore of body-mind health."

precursor of the Dragon Gate Sect (Longmen Pai)
Complete Reality Taoism was the first Taoist Sect to establish a system that successfully blended and harmonized the "Three Teachings" (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanzhen_School
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Gate_Taoism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COS1yI8ZQZk

[Anonymous No.15090620]

>>15090403
hen the Mongols invaded the Song dynasty (960–1279) in 1254, the Quanzhen Taoists exerted great effort in keeping the peace, thus saving thousands of lives, particularly among those of Han Chinese descent.

Quislings.

[Anonymous No.15090810]

>>15089372
I'm trying hard to verbalize this question but since the Dao is good then something must be bad, so what are some bad things in Daoism? How do you know you're following the Dao?

[Anonymous No.15092027]

>>15090620
Genghis Khan appointed Chang-chun overseer of all religions in China, and the Dragon Gate sect thus played a critical role in the conservation of the Han Chinese culture.

Dragon Gate priests
The 11th generation Dragon Gate priests Min Yi-De (闵一得) combined three religions (Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism) together to develop the "Dragon convenience methods". The principle is "learn from Buddhism, to comply with the precepts, diligently practice inner alchemy arts", so that the Dragon Gate branch became thriving. Dragon Gate is currently the largest existing Taoism branch in the world.

[Anonymous No.15092076]

never read only 1 guide to Taoism
the variations in interpretation is too boggling
from neurotic Buddhist syncratic ramblings to neo-platonist ultra-realist proselytizing

[Anonymous No.15092554]

>>15089120
>taoism
>develops in eastern asia for thousands of years
>buddhism:
>*arrives from india*
>"NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BE OK YOU HAVE TO SUFFER TO ESCAPE THE WHEEL OF LIFE TO ACHIEVE ENLIGHTENMENT REEE"
>taoism: "lol u mad"
>buddhism: *samsara intensifies*

in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.15092598]

>>15090810
when you are doing dao correctly, things get done without you really even thinking about them.
when you are doing dao incorrectly, everything is a struggle

[Anonymous No.15092677]

>>15089120
try Buddhism

[~[[[-_-]]]~ No.15092980]

The Secret of the Golden Flower is remarkable for the
sharpness of its focus on a very direct method for self-
realization accessible to ordinary lay people. When it was
written down in a crisis more than two hundred years ago,
it was a concentrated revival of an ancient teaching; and it
has been periodically revived in crises since, due to the
rapidity with which the method can awaken awareness of
hidden resources in the mind.

The Secret of the Golden Flower is the first book of its
kind to have been translated into a Western language. A
German version by Richard Wilhelm was first published in
1929, and an English translation of this German rendition
was published shortly thereafter. Both German and English
editions included an extensive commentary by the
distinguished psychologist C. G. Jung, whose work became
a major influence in Western psychology, studies of
mythology and religion, and New Age culture in general.

Although Jung credited The Secret of the Golden
Flower with having clarified his own work on the
unconscious, he maintained serious reserrations about the
practice taught in the book. What Jung did not know was
that the text he was reading was in fact a garbled translation
of a truncated version of a corrupted recension of the
original work.

[Anonymous No.15093084]

>>15089460
>When Buddhism entered China, it was violently suppressed, btw
Yes, it's funny how it's lumped in with Chinese and Japanese religions in the west as "eastern". In those countries it was viewed with huge suspicion as a foreign innovation.

[Anonymous No.15093165]

>>15089175
>>15089276
>>15089372
>>15089421
>>15089460

It's an excellent day to be /enlightened/

[Anonymous No.15093217]

>>15092980
Absolutely this. Read the Thomas Cleary translation instead.

[~[[[-_-]]]~ No.15093860]

>>15093217
Based. Its also on archive.org

I also suggest Cleary's translation of the Taoist I Ching.


Although the words are very clear, yet they are also very vague. The shallow may take the I Ching to be a book of divination, but the profound consider it the secret of the Celestial Mechanism.
-- Lu Dongbin

[Anonymous No.15094240]

Can anyone give me a reasonable answer as to why Buddha taught reincarnation? I know it's something some people still believe but from what I have seen the evidence is very questionable and I'm not really convinced. Was it just carrying over an idea that was popular at the time that was helpful for people, or would he really have believed it?

[Anonymous No.15094407]

>>15094240
Because you could just end suffering by committing suicide.
Also, what keeps you reincarnating is karma, and since you have not reached enlightenment you would keep making good or bad karma thus you must always exist.

[Anonymous No.15094470]

https://discord.gg/FFwRXKq

[Anonymous No.15094473]

>>15089612
>jesus peed in it and called it wine
typical

[Anonymous No.15094478]

>>15094240
Evidence is not everything. Prove to me you're conscious.

[Anonymous No.15094503]

>>15094240
>Was it just carrying over an idea that was popular at the time that was helpful for people, or would he really have believed it?

Of course he believed it. Buddha say his past lives through deep states of meditation, there's references in the texts talking specifically about "here I rose in such a such a village and was x, and then I was reborn in such and such time bla".

Buddhism is basically a suicide method when one is caught up in a world with rebirth. If no rebirth, then just commit suicide to end dukkha.

[Anonymous No.15094601]

>muh enlightenment
>muh nirvana
>muh inner peace
it's all big drama of presumption, thought and dumb will. there is no enlightenment, there is no nirvana and there is no inner peace. human nature is contradiction and you can't change that.
the best you can do is find your path own your own just like buddha did it himself

FUCK GURUS
FUCK MANUALS
FUCK BOOKS

[Anonymous No.15094728]

>>15089460
>>Things lead to Nirvana.
expand on this please

[Anonymous No.15095627]

>>15092980
What's so good about it?

[Anonymous No.15096948]

>>15092598
>when you are doing dao correctly, things get done without you really even thinking about them.
So if you get nothing done except cosplaying and masturbating, but are happy, is that doing the dao correctly?

[Anonymous No.15097501]

>>15089276
>>15089372
>>15089460
I intended to look for these three myself and you're saving me a lot time. So thanks.

[Anonymous No.15098875]

>>15095627
just turn the Light around bro

[Anonymous No.15098992]

>>15089460
>Buddhism was always in intellectual combat with Taoism for metaphysics and mysticism

This is not in agreement with what I've read. I've mostly seen harmonious co-existence between Taoists and Buddhists in the texts, even up to the point they would often build their monasteries near each other. Essentially, those following the Tao and those following the Buddha recognized that they were both striving for the same goals, albeit in slightly different concepts and practices. But their similarities were so great and they saw such potential for sharing of technique that they've long held each other in mutual regard.

[Anonymous No.15099269]

Life is dissatisfactory.

The cause of dissatisfaction is desire

By stopping desire you will stop being unhappy

The way to stop desire is by sitting on a cushion and doing nothing else, for as long as possible every day

[Anonymous No.15099926]

>>15095627
https://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/index.html
https://archive.org/stream/TheSecretOfTheGoldenFlowerByRichardWilhelmAndCarlJung/The+Secret+of+the+Golden+Flower+by+Richard+Wilhelm+and+Carl+Jung_djvu.txt
1. Heavenly Consciousness (The Heart)
Master Lii Tzu said : That which exists through itself
is called Meaning (Tao). Meaning has neither name nor
force. It is the one essence, the one primordial spirit.
Essence and life cannot be seen. It is contained in the
Light of Heaven. The Light of Heaven cannot be seen.
It is contained in the two eyes. To-day I will be your
guide and will first reveal to you the secret of the Golden
Flower of the Great One, and, starting from that, I will
explain the rest in detail.

The Great One is the term given to that which has
nothing above it. The secret of the magic of life consists
in using action in order to achieve non-action. One must
not wish to leave out the steps between and penetrate
directlv. The maxim handed down to us is to take in
hand the work on the essence. In doing this it is important,
not to follow the wrong road.

The Golden Flower is the Light. What colour has
the Light ? One uses the Golden Flower as an image.
It is the true power of the transcendent Great One. The
phrase, " The lead of the water-region has but one taste,"
refers to it.

[Anonymous No.15099931]

>>15099926
In the Book of Changes it is said r : Heaven created water
through the One. That is the true power of the Great One.
If a man attains this One he becomes alive ; if he misses it he dies.
But even if a man lives in the power (air, prana) he does not see
the power (air), just as fishes live in water but do not see the water.
A man dies when he has no life-air, just as the fishes are destroyed
when deprived of water. Therefore the adepts have taught the
people to hold fast to the primal and to guard the One ; it is the
circular course of the Light and the protection of the centre. If
one guards this true power, one can prolong the span of life, and
can then apply the methods of creating an immortal body by
" melting and mixing ".

The work on the circulation of the Light depends
entirely on the backward-flowing movement, so that the
thoughts are gathered together (the place of Heavenly
Consciousness, the Heavenly Heart). The Heavenly
Heart lies between sun and moon (i.e. the two eyes).

The Booh of the Yellow Castle says : In the field
of the square inch of the house of the square foot, life
can be regulated. The house of the square foot is the
face. The field of the square inch in the face : what
could that be other than the Heavenly Heart ? In the
middle of the square inch dwells the splendour. In the
purple hall of the city of jade dwells the god of utmost
emptiness and life. The Confucians call it the centre
of emptiness ; the Buddhists, the terrace of life ; the
Taoists, the ancestral land, or the yellow castle, or the
dark pass, or the space of former Heaven. The Heavenly
Heart is like the dwelling place, the Light is the master.

[Anonymous No.15100991]

>>15099269
Look at this hot brainlet take.
>using the mind to train the mind requires you to spend a lot of time working with the mind in a setting conducive to concentration
wow crazy

[Anonymous No.15101387]

>>15094407
What is being reincarnated? How does karma link one life to another?

[cunt No.15101407]

>>15089120
Taoism

[Anonymous No.15102007]

>>15089246
There is a Taoist canon, and it's immense. Your problem is that

1.Taoism is completely local to China, and not an international religion. It's also heavily mixed with other local Chinese "pagan" religion and culture

2.There is no orthodoxy sorting everything out saying scholar A is wrong and scholar B is right

3.Instruction in Taoism is traditionally based on a relationship between teacher and pupil, not simply book learning

4.Tying in with point 1, most Taoist works are not translated to English at all and even the ones that are usually are poorly translates or translated but not explained well

5.Modern China is a post-Mao intellectually dead weight shithole

If you want to sort it all out you're going to have to learn the hard way, on your own. There is no proper "beginners guide to Taoism".

[cunt No.15102048]

>>15102007
>There is no proper "beginners guide to Taoism".
literally Alan Watts videos
Some people don't like him, but thats to bad.
I think your being way to strict and "proper" with it, and that's very unTao. No one really gives a shit about Chinese schizo shamanism. The core ideas are what matters, Western influenced or not.