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/lit/ - Literature

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15088080 No.15088080 [Reply] [Original]

>finish reading the Roman philosophers after the Greeks
>try to convert myself to christianism to relate with the middle age philosophers better
>read St. Augustine bashing polytheists and their contradictions and think he makes sense
>try to pick up again the OT to finish it
>realize it's just a jewish power fantasy about an obvious man-made god created to prefer jews over the other races
>find countless contradictions to the previous books and the NT teachings
>close the Bible and throw it in a fire while gloating over the most retarded psyop in the history of humanity
>drop the City of God halfway through the text
>refuse to read any other christian philosopher
Can I hop on the Spinoza train now?

>> No.15088109

>>15088080
the biggest “contradiction” you can think of has an explanation. You just haven’t discovered it

>> No.15088190

>>15088080
You were a poser once, you'll be a poser again.

>> No.15088208

>>15088109
Christard coping rationalizations aren't explanations

>> No.15088216

>>15088080
What greed of pride drove a man to this post? Hmm I wonder, it is shame.

>> No.15088225

Bad take

>> No.15088240

>>15088080
>I tried to read the Bible but I didn’t understand it

>> No.15088241

>>15088216
>greed of pride
So the feeling that built all civilizations?

>> No.15088248

>>15088208
atheist misunderstandings founded on pride aren’t evidence of Biblical contradictions

>> No.15088265

Jews get non stop btfo in the OT tho. It just proves you have read shit.

>> No.15088276
File: 82 KB, 722x695, Christcuck.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15088276

>>15088240
>>15088248
Hello there tradcath zoomers

>> No.15088297

>>15088265
this. It’s strange that the Jews would write such things about themselves. And the writers in particular, Moses and David for example, write of their own shortcomings and sins, such as when Moses strikes the rock, or when David is seduced by Bathsheba.

>> No.15088303

>>15088276
Not a catholic. Let me know if you have any actual questions about my faith.

>> No.15088323

>>15088297
To illustrate the inherent flaws of human nature and the result of disobedience to God.
Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God“

>> No.15088338

>>15088276
>>15088303
same. I wasn’t raised going to church so I don’t have any affiliation with any particular denomination, and being a Catholic doesn’t seem necessary to follow the will of God.

>> No.15088353

>>15088323
what I’m saying is that it would be strange if it were all merely faked. The accounts actually seem more focused on recording history and all the true details, regardless of how they reflect the characteristics of the Jews or the writers.

>> No.15088356

>>15088303
>>15088338
So basically a fucking LARPer like every other tradfag zoomer.

>> No.15088364

>>15088356
>I don’t see how they believe therefore they must be larping

>> No.15088373 [DELETED] 
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15088373

>>15088364
Okay kike lover

>> No.15088390

>>15088353
That’s true, the Bible does contain certain parts of recorded history. David’s story is unique too because it shows his fall into lust and sin, then his punishment by God, and then his redemption. It’s worth the read.

>>15088356
If you just want to be angry, then be angry. If you want to learn, then ask.

>> No.15088399

>>15088390
On what basis does YAWEH say that buttsex is bad?

>> No.15088408

>>15088399
I’m assuming you’re talking about gay sex. Here are two verses:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

>> No.15088423

>>15088399
adultery, lust, laziness, gluttony, sloth, hatred, theft, cursing your parents, and homosexuality, all sins. In general, being a slave to your passions or doing something that isn’t good for you is a sin. Because these things separate you from the love of God.

>> No.15088457

>>15088303
>Let me know if you have any actual questions about my faith.
does your god being a Jew bother you at all?

>> No.15088484

>>15088457
I believe Jesus is literally the son of God. Why do you think it makes a difference what race his earthly body was?

>> No.15088497

>>15088457
If being a Jew is such a bad thing, then the fact that Jesus was a Jew is more proof of his divinity. So the opposite is true. I’m not bothered by it, but I proudly proclaim it

>> No.15088499

>>15088408
I'm not asking you to regurgitate the verses but here's the thing
>God gave them over to a depraved mind
>God gave them over
This invalidates the free will that God gave us, why should he interfere with our will and condemn us to depravation? It's already a contradiction within itself.

>>15088423
And none of these apply to homosexuality which is merely a different sexual preference. It's absolutely possible to be an homosexual with moral grounds, but you're gonna churn some half assed excuse because your kike book says so. If your jewish god demanded that you sucked black cocks you'd do it on a daily basis.

>> No.15088507

>>15088499
homosexuality is lust. Its only end is physical pleasure. It’s not the same as merry loving men or women as you would love your parents or your children or your friends. It’s lust, plain and simple, and that’s not good for the soul.

>> No.15088508

>>15088499
>This invalidates the free will that God gave us, why should he interfere with our will and condemn us to depravation? It's already a contradiction within itself

“God gave them over” means that God gave them over to their own desires. It’s basically like saying “God allowed them to do what they wanted” that is by definition free will.

>> No.15088530

>>15088497
>If being a Jew is such a bad thing, then the fact that Jesus was a Jew is more proof of his divinity
did this make sense in your head or are you just trying to bamboozle me with ironic cuckposting?

>> No.15088549

Reminder that the first requirement to be a Jew is to be anti-christian. OP is obvious a mental jew, a zealot. No wonder why he wants to read le subversive materialist jew

>> No.15088557

>>15088507
>homosexuality is lust.
How uncommon it is that I have discarded every faggot who whores himself regardless of his looks, right?
>Its only end is physical pleasure.
I have my hands for that.
>It’s not the same as merry loving men or women
In fact it's much better because two men can accomplish everything a man and a woman can accomplish more than twice. You will never disprove the functional advantages that a same-sex couple has over a straight couple because it simply works better and unlike a woman, men don't need the aid of someone else to thrive.
>It’s lust, plain and simple, and that’s not good for the soul.
I am the living proof that your logic is bullshit, homosexuality only needs to be monogamous to work out.
>>15088508
>God gave them over to their own desires.
Isn't it by desire that we live? How is desire harmful?

>> No.15088578

>>15088557
Desire is the root of literally all evil. Desire becomes harmful when one takes the fulfillment of it as a terminal goal, as opposed to something to toy with. Of course, if you're happy with the game of fulfilling your desires, there's no reason to stop.

>> No.15088593

>>15088578
>Desire is the root of literally all evil.
And the Desire to be with God is also the root of all evil? You said Desire is generally evil, see that you're a fucking brainlet?

>> No.15088598

>>15088593
Christards eternally btfo

>> No.15088605

>>15088593
/thread

>> No.15088608

>>15088557
>Isn't it by desire that we live? How is desire harmful?

Desire for things like food (in moderation) are fine. Desire for things like a wife are fine too. When you desire something outside of God’s will, then those desires are sinful and “the wages of sin are death”

>> No.15088618

>>15088608
So we can murder people in moderation? That's fine by God's will.

>> No.15088631

>>15088608
>When you desire something outside of God’s will, then those desires are sinful and “the wages of sin are death”
why though ?

>> No.15088635

>>15088618
Are you being purposefully obtuse? God isn’t Aristotle. Some things are wrong in any amount, some are wrong if they’re in excess, some desires are wrong if not enough.

However the entire point of Christianity is that the law is impossible to keep. This is why it’s important to accept Jesus as your savior to deliver you from your sin.

>> No.15088641

>>15088635
>some desires are wrong if not enough.
e.g. not desiring to collect enough Philistine foreskins

>> No.15088643

>>15088631
Because the jew god says no touch your pp or you go to hell

>> No.15088647

>>15088276
what does this wojak even mean? he's jewish but he's christian?

>> No.15088649

>>15088631
Because unforgiven sin is incompatible with Gods perfection. To be cleansed of your sin you need to accept Christ.

>> No.15088655

>>15088080
>"Psychical men are instructed in things psychical, and they are steadied by works and simple faith and do not possess the perfect knowledge. These (according to them) are we of the Church. To us, therefore, they maintain, a moral life is necessary for salvation."

>> No.15088657

>>15088635
Jesus says he came to bring a sword, and christians show all the willingness to execute homosexuals and people they don't like. Are you gonna say murdering homosexuals is justified if it's in moderation?

>> No.15088670

>>15088530
the point is that Jesus is more of a miracle if he is a Jew.
>>15088557
>>15088578
>>15088593
desires of the flesh are not the same as the desires of the spirit. One results in a never-ending fire that wants to be quenched, but cannot, while the other leads to a everlasting joy. Not all desires are bad. This isn’t Buddhism. The Bible makes it clear many times that we should desire to be with God and follow his commandments, etc. Don’t get carried away with yourselves

>> No.15088672

>>15088593
It actually is, yes. The desire to do God's will has done immense damage over the centuries.

>> No.15088674

>>15088649
but why is it sinful in the first place?

>> No.15088676

>>15088657
I don’t see how you’re getting from “desiring some food in moderation is not a sin” to “everything in moderation is fine”

Murdering someone you don’t like because you don’t like them is sinful. Jesus speaking about “bringing a sword” means that his arrival on earth with cause division based on people’s belief/unbelief, he’s not saying he came to execute gays.

(Matthew 10:34-36) - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."

>> No.15088677
File: 34 KB, 386x601, 1557153862787.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15088677

>>15088657
It's still under discussion.

>> No.15088681

>>15088672
ah yes, because if everyone lived like Jesus then the world would be a dystopia

>> No.15088687

>>15088676
>Murdering someone you don’t like because you don’t like them is sinful.
bro you might want to tell god that because he did a ton of it

>> No.15088688

>>15088674
Why are you actually yourself and not someone else? Why did God create mosquitos? Homosexuality is wrong because God says it is. Who are you to disagree?

>> No.15088695

>>15088688
>Homosexuality is wrong because God says it is
so it’s just, like, god’s opinion, man?

>> No.15088697

>pick up City of God
>entire first book is just fucking logical fallacy DURRR GOD SAVED THUH CHRISCHUNS BUT ZEUS DIDDUN SAVE THUH TROJUNS
Dropped

>> No.15088699

>>15088687
God can do whatever he wants. Why should the same moral standards apply? God is the judge of all, the creator of all. When we sin, it’s not as if our bodies and souls are the same as before, and that God merely keeps track of our sins in a book. Our very souls are stained with our sin, and we are made weaker, unable to be in God’s presence.

>> No.15088705

>>15088670
>Jesus is more of a miracle if he is a Jew.
Why? I don’t get it

>> No.15088706

>>15088695
Yes.

>> No.15088712

>>15088670
>desires of the flesh are not the same as the desires of the spirit
What does the spirit even need to desire if it is unblemished by the flesh desires?

>>15088672
So we've come to the conclusion that God's will is harmful and therefore God is evil.

>> No.15088716

>>15088706
lol that’s gay

>> No.15088725

>>15088716
That’s your opinion.

>> No.15088728

>>15088699
>God can do whatever he wants.
So we've got another christcuck claiming that God is a tyrant who can do whatever he wants. What makes him different from Zeus who also did whatever he wanted?

>> No.15088735

>>15088725
yeah but I like mine more

>> No.15088737

>>15088705
that anon thinks that Jesus’ being a Jew should bother me, as if Jews are inferior or repulsive, etc. But if that’s the case, then the fact that Jesus was a Jew is more miraculous, and proof that he is the Son of God. His whole argument backfired against itself. No one worships Jesus because of his physical body, his ethnicity, his appearance, etc. That’s missing the whole point and it’s honestly an embarrassing tactic.
>Jesus was a Jew haha!
so childish and dare I say reminiscent of a /pol/tard

>> No.15088744

>Hur dur I am not like the other sodomite faggots
Get the fuck outta here

>> No.15088753

>>15088681
You don't become like Jesus through desire.

>> No.15088754

>>15088297
>implying God didn't choose the Jewish people to prove a point because they needed help "Bigly"

>> No.15088764

>>15088712
>What does the spirit even need to desire if it is unblemished by the flesh desires?
don’t know what you’re asking
>>15088728
you want me to list all the differences between Zeus and Yahweh?

>> No.15088771

>>15088737
>the fact that Jesus was a Jew is more miraculous, and proof that he is the Son of God.
You keep saying this but it’s the part I don’t get. Why is the son of god being repulsive better than him being not repulsive?

>> No.15088773

>>15088728
I’m not the guy you were arguing with. God is different than Zues because he operates according to the law. God killing a sinner is no different than a judge sentencing a man to die.

>> No.15088777

>>15088753
more damage has been done by not doing God’s will

>> No.15088785

>>15088297
Not really. Depends on how you interpret moses striking the rock if you ask me. And they can't agree even now

>> No.15088800

>>15088771
if Jesus was to be hindered by his physical body, then that is proof of his divine spiritual body. As I said, the glory is not to his earthly self. No matter what Jesus was like, you atheists would finds a complaint. “Jesus was a blonde aryan super genius? But I thought only the spirit mattered” and so on

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

>> No.15088803

>>15088744
/lit/ is profoundly gay. Christcuck cross boarders like you can seethe all you want and fuck off back to your containment board >>>/pol/ if you have any problems with it.
>>15088764
How can even carnal desires stain the soul if they're completely different desires?
>>15088773
So i guess killing countless innocent firstborns was also done according to law wasn't it?

>> No.15088808

>>15088712
No. Human acts are harmful and not in accordance with God's will. The Fall was the result of desire. Letting desire go means just letting reality be. There is nothing to do, and nothing to fix.

> Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

>> No.15088823

>>15088803
>How can even carnal desires stain the soul if they're completely different desires?
you wouldn’t know, would you? When you live a spiritual life, and then commit a large sin, you feel as though your soul atrophies. Its flourishing is hindered. This idea is common to many ancient philosophies and religions

>> No.15088839

>>15088803
>So i guess killing countless innocent firstborns was also done according to law wasn't it?

Yes. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. There are no “innocents” without accepting the redemption of Christ - something the lambs blood on the door was meant to demonstrate.

>> No.15088848

>>15088808
Then we should let even the desire to live go and stop living if living itself is a human act and human acts are harmful?
>>15088823
>you wouldn’t know, would you?
You wouldn't know what's it like to have a different sexual preference, would you?

>> No.15088852

>>15088848
>You wouldn't know what's it like to have a different sexual preference, would you?
I know what it’s like to have lust but I’m not a fornicator.

>> No.15088854

>>15088800
>if Jesus was to be hindered by his physical body, then that is proof of his divine spiritual body
I don’t see how it’s proof of anything except god having bad taste in physical bodies

>> No.15088857

>>15088839
>ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. There are no “innocents” without accepting the redemption of Christ
So you worship a genocidal God and have the gall to call him benevolent?

>> No.15088869

>>15088857
yes

>> No.15088874

>>15088857
Who are you to sit in judgement of God when he’s responsible for giving you even the air you breathe? God is benevolent because in spite of how horrible humanity is he doesn’t just crush us, but instead killed his son so that we can get eternal life, even though we deserve death.

>> No.15088877

>>15088852
How is a fornicator a fornicator if he hasn't ever fornicated in his life? You're assuming shit like the prideful faggot that you are. Wasn't pride a sin?

>> No.15088880
File: 12 KB, 194x259, 1D13173B-EE72-416D-9BAC-A456947F748E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
15088880

>>15088839
so it’s literally this

>> No.15088887

>>15088869
Then he isn't a good God, because genocide contradicts benevolence.

>> No.15088891

>>15088874
>even though we deserve death.
says who

>> No.15088898

>>15088877
homosexuality and lust are both sins, but carrying out those desires is even worse. Why are you so angry?

>> No.15088899

>>15088880
>I’ve murdered in my heart, cheated, lied and stolen, but I don’t deserve to have judgement passed on me because it doesn’t sound fair wahhh

The infantilization of the modern adult never ceases to amaze me. Life your life free of sin and you’ll be spared. If you can’t do that, then you deserve death. Thankfully instead of having to get forgiveness by sacrificing a goat, God made it so easy on you. All you have to do is believe and ask, yet you still make Christ out to be the bad guy.

>> No.15088907

>>15088874
>Who are you to sit in judgement of God
Who are you to say that God truly spoke exclusively through the Bible? Who are you to prove the judeo-christian God is the one true God instead of Allah or Zeus?

>> No.15088909

>>15088887
he’s good to me

>> No.15088910

>>15088891
God

>>15088907

>> No.15088921

>>15088899
why does a person who lied deserve to die though? do you try to kill everyone who lies to you?

>> No.15088923

>>15088891
God

>>15088907
True. I might be wrong, but if we’re operating under the assumption that God exists as portrayed in the Bible, then that’s what the Bible says.

>> No.15088928

>>15088923
>God
see >>15088880

>> No.15088929

>>15088907
no atheist seriously thinks that any religion is more likely than Christianity. If they did, then they would be arguing against those religions instead

>> No.15088940

>>15088921
No, because I am not God. However God is the judge of all mankind, and he is able to sentence sinners to die according to the law. If you have a problem with that, then simply resist Gods judgement if you’re able to.

>> No.15088945

>>15088899
>HURRRRRR IM A TRADCATH KISSLESS VIRGIN BELIEVING IN JEWISH GOD TO COPE WITH MY INCELDOM LOOK AT MY MATURITY
You're in no position to call anyone immature, faggot.

>>15088909
Then you're a moron because you're calling a genocidal maniac good

>>15088929
There you go again with your prideful bullshit, stop thinking the world is black and white and you'll realize serious atheists shit on other religions too. Plus I'm not even an atheist or a pagan, quit assuming shit about me.

>> No.15088948

>>15088940
>and he is able to sentence sinners to die according to the law
where’d the law come from though?

>> No.15088951

>>15088945
I’m married. Not everyone on this board is what you wish them to be like.

>> No.15088957

>>15088754
Wtf would God need to prove to anyone?

>> No.15088959

>>15088929
>no atheist seriously thinks that any religion is more likely than Christianity. If they did, then they would be arguing against those religions instead
Why do abrahamic worshippers of all stripes always jump to the exact same defensive tirade about being oppressed above all else whenever someone criticises them for hilariously arrogant assertions like this one:
>>15088940
>No, because I am not God. However God is the judge of all mankind, and he is able to sentence sinners to die according to the law. If you have a problem with that, then simply resist Gods judgement if you’re able to.

This from three of the most influential religions on the planet
What pride, indeed

>> No.15088961

>>15088948
God. If you think that’s unfair then simply dethrone him and insert your own law.

>> No.15088966

>>15088945
>Then you're a moron because you're calling a genocidal maniac good
what do you do not understand about “he’s good to me” ?
> atheists shit on other religions too.
of course, but they only get their panties in a twist when discussing Christianity. This thread is proof. They’re not so serious against Islam or Greek mythology, etc because they know these religions are a joke

>> No.15088971

>>15088951
Yeah married to your pillow wife, cope more fag, no woman would want to date a caveman mentality sperglord like you.

>> No.15088974

>>15088971
post body

>> No.15088978

>>15088961
I don't think anyone cares to strive for a vacant throne of questionable veracity

>> No.15088979

>>15088777
Undoubtedly. My point is that taking efforts to improve or fix your reality in any way, even by fulfilling your desires, even by taking acts that you think brings you closer to God, is already deviating from God's Plan.

But full unconditional acceptance of reality is a very advanced spiritual state, and I don't claim to have reached it.

>> No.15088980

>>15088971
>no Christians could ever be married and post on /lit/

Convincing argument, anon.

>> No.15088981

>>15088966
Islam is even more dangerous than cucktianity because at least christcucks are easily deceived and are becoming a dying breed in the west

>> No.15088992

>>15088981
>cuckstianity
>not pisslam
thanks for proving my point lol

>> No.15088996

>>15088966
>of course, but they only get their panties in a twist when discussing Christianity. This thread is proof. They’re not so serious against Islam or Greek mythology, etc because they know these religions are a joke

>enters a thread criticising the bible specifically
>claims some kind of massive conspiracy against christians in particular and not any other organised or otherwise religion
I take it you missed the thread on the Quran this morning?

>> No.15088998

>>15088980
Yes, tradfags are literal LARPers

>> No.15089007

>>15088998
Is this your way of coping with disagreement?

>nobody could ever disagree with me. They must be pretending

>> No.15089015

>>15088961
so god just thinks people who hurt his feelings should die?

>> No.15089018

>>15088992
>le missing meme name
>WEEEEERE PERSECUTED VICTIMS RABBI SAVE US
Thanks for proving you're a bunch of victim-complex jews who feel like being persecuted at all times despite being always the persecutors throughout history.

>>15089007
There's no disagreement here. No man with a successful life would sperg out on 4chan over christkike beliefs.

>> No.15089019

>>15089015
>strawman
Google is your friend

>> No.15089028

>>15089019
>source: just trust me bro
ah yes, the infamous persuasiveness of the christian believer

>> No.15089045

>>15089018
>There's no disagreement here. No man with a successful life would sperg out on 4chan over christkike beliefs.

I came here looking for suggestions for books to read. I wouldn’t consider my life a success, just pretty good all things considered.

>> No.15089048

I dont understand how anyone can defend Catholicism and protestantism as anything other than atheism. You humanize your god to such a degree that it literally breeds that which is antithetical to your religion.

>> No.15089052

>>15089019
why did god write the laws the way he did?

>> No.15089055

>>15089018
no use in talking to swine like you. This isn’t even a discussion. You’re just pouring out your hatred and pride. You can’t reason like that or accept reason. No matter the topic, it’s just not conducive to a productive debate.

>> No.15089063

>>15089052
hold on let me find the answer in my omniscient mind, it’ll only take a sec

>> No.15089065

>>15088848
That's roughly what the monks who become hermits are getting at yes. Being more pragmatic, it means to let go of striving. Being lord over your desires instead of being led around by them, accepting whatever comes.

>> No.15089076

>>15089052
I don’t have firsthand knowledge myself obviously, but my understanding is that the law was written when humans were in the garden of eden, and we’re still perfect and walked with God. God gave humans free will, and humans broke the law. However before that humanity was perfect. Sin (breaking the law) distanced humans from God because God is perfect and entirely without sin.

>> No.15089077

>>15089063
what about this: could they have been written differently?

>> No.15089081

>>15089045
Then go back to r/booksuggestions because you don't belong here.

>>15089055
>pouring out your hatred and pride
>DUUUUUDE GOD LOVES EVERYONE
>except homos, homos aren't humans and they should be hated and killed
What a fucking joke you are, a literal fucking walking contradiction
>>15089065
Basically leaving public life so you won't be able to vote, rebel to the authorities or think wrong about them.
>yes goy go retire inside a cave so we can manage the wordly affairs in your stead!
Sounds like slave mentality at its worst.

>> No.15089100

>>15089081
>DUUUUUDE GOD LOVES EVERYONE
I didn’t even say anything remotely similar to that

>> No.15089105

>>15089081
Thanks, but no.

As to your second argument, God loves humanity enough to give them the ability to live with him in heaven forever. If you reject, you’ll be judged like you would have been if God didn’t sacrifice his son for you. It’s really just up to you.

>> No.15089109
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15089109

>>15089100
>

>> No.15089118

>>15089109
are you calling me a liar?

>> No.15089124

>>15089048
It basically spawns uber progressive Christian liberals its pretty funny

>> No.15089129

>>15089077
How would you write them?

>> No.15089132

>>15089100
>NOOOO I DINDU SAY THAT IT'S ONLY IMPLIED BY THE KIKE FAITH I BELIEVE
come on you're at your lowest ebb
>>15089105
What makes you think the judeo-christian God is the true God?

>> No.15089133

>>15089077
What about the removed sections isn't that already editing God's word

>> No.15089147

>>15089129
how about the same except if you lie you don’t get put to death?

>> No.15089148

>>15089132
The Bible never says that God loves everyone. Here’s the problem: you’re arguing against what you don’t know!
>Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations
>with those who love him

>> No.15089159

>>15089132
Empirically, I believe in the historical evidence that Jesus existed, was crucified, etc. and other historic evidence that corroborates the biblical narrative.

Metaphysically, I simply have faith that God exists and he loves me :)

>> No.15089165

>>15089147
Okay, what happens? Does God allow sinners into heaven? How can pure and unpure exist together at the same time?

>> No.15089170

>>15089159
you’re forgetting the dozens of prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. Nothing like that in other religions. A holy book created thousands of years apart with multiple authors with one message. Nothing like that

>> No.15089173

>>15089159
Based and faithpilled

>> No.15089178

>>15089170
>A holy book created thousands of years apart with multiple authors with one message
do Christie’s really think this?

>> No.15089186

>>15089178
Yes we do.

>> No.15089188

>>15089178
yes

>> No.15089189

>>15089165
>sinners
who? sinning means breaking god’s law so liars aren’t sinning under the new law

>> No.15089195

>>15089186
>>15089188
so you guys just haven’t heard about all the historical disagreements and stuff or what?

>> No.15089198

>>15089189
by the very design of this world and our souls, lying is a sin

>> No.15089204

>>15089195
are you going to provide them or what?

>> No.15089205

>>15089198
>of this world
right. I’m inventing a new world

>> No.15089231

>>15089189
So raping babies under your law would be totally fine and go without punishment?

>> No.15089232

>>15089148
Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

>>15089159
Mohammed lived too, what's your point?

>>15089186
http://www.freethinkersbooks.com/100-false-bible-prophecies.html
Lmfao cope

>> No.15089261
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15089261

>>15089204
BRUH LOOK AT THIS DUDE

>> No.15089268

>>15089232
My explanation was not “Jesus was alive therefore he’s god” it was “Jesus was alive, the Bible and history are in alignment, and I have faith that he is the son of God.” I’m impressed you were able to be more reductionist than I was.

>> No.15089271

>>15089231
what? I said the only law I’m changing is that lying is okay. but sure, we can think about your law. I’m god. I’m omnipotent. I write the laws and I say raping babies is swell. who are you to disagree?

>> No.15089285

>>15089232
the “us” doesn’t refer to everyone, at least not all the time. If you’re a staunch sinner on your deathbed and don’t love God, then he doesn’t love you. He’s been giving you opportunities, holding back hi anger, but he doesn’t love you as much as those who love him.

>> No.15089301

>>15089261
Judas was replaced by Mattias. It would have been awkward for Jesus to say “oh yeah, except for you Judas, because you’re going to kill me later.”

>> No.15089313

>>15089170
>NT writers have access to OT prophecies
>Write story in such a way Jesus fulfills all OT prophecies

how difficult is this to understand?

>> No.15089318

>>15089301
>Jesus lied to Judas and told him he’d get to be king just to avoid ruining the mood at the party
I have it on good authority from several christoids in this thread that Jesus deserves to be put to death for that

>> No.15089320

>>15088297
It was a common trope in ancient civilizations to see themselves as The One, for example:

>The Girdle-wearers being Typhonians are destroying ... And then Agathos Daimon will abandon the city being established and will enter Memphis, and the foreign city which will be built will be emptied. And these things will take place at the conclusion of the evils when the falling of the leaves occurs in the Egypt of the foreigners. The city of the Girdle-wearers will be laid waste as in my furnace, because of the unlawful deeds which they executed in Egypt.
>The statues transferred there will return to Egypt. The city by the sea will become a drying place for fishermen because Agathos Daimon and Knephis will have gone to Memphis, so that some who pass through will say: "This city, in which every race of men dwelt, was all-nourishing."

>> No.15089322

>>15089313
then why did the Jews reject Jesus?

>> No.15089327

>>15089268
>Jesus was alive
That doesn't prove shit because he didn't write down a word, nobody knows if he was even literate. The apostles wrote everything in his stead and altered reality to fit their schizophrenic narrative.
>>15089301
>It would have been awkward for Jesus to say “oh yeah, except for you Judas,
You saying JESUS LIED??? Holy shit

>> No.15089334

>>15089271
Nobody, but this thought experiment was meant to be “write the law as God should have consistent with God’s nature” not “make up your own law AND god”

>> No.15089340

>>15089327
I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m explaining why I believe it. You don’t have to agree with me

>> No.15089349

>>15089334
>consistent with God’s nature
you’re the first person in the thread to mention this so it certainly wasn’t part of the thought experiment, but go on. what’s god’s nature?

>> No.15089352

>>15089327
>>15089318
Jesus was speaking plurally. Imagine if I were a king, and I said “I will give you gifts and make sure you have food.” But I find out that one of them tried to kill me. Would I be a liar if I did not give him gifts and let him keep his house, etc? The context matters

>> No.15089358

>>15089352
*speaking to my population

>> No.15089359

>>15089327
>The apostles wrote everything in his stead

They probably didn't since they also were illiterate.

>> No.15089363

>>15089349
Basically this:
https://www.christian-faith.com/nature-of-god/

>> No.15089369

>>15089352
>I find out that one of them tried to kill me
What? Jesus didn’t see it coming? Some prophecy that was

>> No.15089380

>>15089359
Luke was a doctor and Matthew was an educated tax collector. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about

>> No.15089383

>>15089369
>28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, THAT YE WHICH HAVE FOLLOWED ME, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
oh wow, it’s nothing

>> No.15089390

>>15089340
How can you believe anything based on vague historical accounts and second-hand texts written by schizophrenic jews?

>>15089352
>Jesus was speaking plurally
But that still implies he'd give it to everybody including Judas.

>>15089359
Then some other people did which is even more fraudulent

>> No.15089397

>>15089380
yeah but what did being a doctor consist of back then

>> No.15089400

>>15089383
it’s almost like they took it out of context or something

>> No.15089401

>>15089383
>WHICH HAVE FOLLOWED ME
yeah, Judas was one of his followers

>> No.15089413

>>15089363
I see. so god could change his nature if he wanted to, right? it says right there that he’s omnipotent and can do whatever he wants

>> No.15089423

>>15089401
that’s not how grammar works. He’s speaking about the future. Simple example: a mother says to her children: “at the end of the day, those who have not fought with their siblings will get cookies.” Does this mean that all the children who haven’t fought at the moment she is speaking will get cookies? Do I really need to explain this to you?

>> No.15089431

>>15089413
No he couldn’t. You’re just playing semantics. This is the same argument as “could god create a rock too big to lift”

God cannot contradict his own nature, and the Bible states he is unchanging and true.

>> No.15089434

>>15089380
Do you even know what educated means? Only the elite knew how to read and only a small fraction of those who read also knew how to write. We're not living in the age of Facebook, writing wasn't a daily necessity.

Also, they wrote in perfect Greek, which pretty much rules out the apostles being the ones that wrote the whole thing.

Also, all the manuscripts were anonymous, none of them came with authorship. So you have no idea what you're affirming.

>> No.15089445

>>15089431
>and the Bible states he is unchanging and true.
what about all those times he changed his mind though

>> No.15089446

>>15088408
>homosexuals
That was not a word until the 1950's

>> No.15089453

>>15089423
>He’s speaking about the future.
yeah, to his 12 disciples. and he tells the 12 of them they’re all getting a throne. so was he lying to Judas or did he just not know what Judas would do?

>> No.15089465

>>15089453
>and he tells the 12 of them they’re all getting a throne
nope. Read it again until you comprehend what it’s saying

>> No.15089469

>>15089431
>God cannot contradict his own nature

So, you understand the nature of God really well. Go ahead and explain it to me in full detail, because I'm looking for it everywhere and I can't find.

>> No.15089470

>>15088507
>homosexuality is lust.
All sexuality is lust. Pro-tip: The seven deadly sins are not sins in and of themselves, but dangerous passions that must be treated with care.

>> No.15089481

>>15089465
yup. Read it again until you comprehend what it’s saying

>> No.15089482

>>15088578
>Desire is the root of literally all evil.
No, freedom is.

>> No.15089483

>>15089446
Yeah I quoted a modern translation. If you’d like to fact check me then google the original Greek/Hebrew

>>15089445
Objection, calls for legal conclusion.

>> No.15089488

>>15089453
his 12 current disciples aren’t the only ones there. It’s not even implied that the current 12 disciples will all have a throne

>> No.15089492

>>15089431
what determine’s god’s nature?

>> No.15089502

>>15089492
What his word (the Bible) says.

>> No.15089508

>>15089502
And what does the Bible says about God other than providing adjectives without proper conceptualization?

>> No.15089517

>>15088276
Catholicism is inherently anti semite, though. Protties have a long lasting love affair with jew dick.

>> No.15089520

>>15089502
there are multiple translations of the bible that say different things

>> No.15089522

Childhood is adoring Augustine
Adulthood is realizing that Pelagius makes more sense

>> No.15089528

>>15089517
>no dude we really hate jews trust me
>yeah our god is a Jew and all our holy books were written by Jews but dude we really don’t like them

>> No.15089535

>>15089481
>28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
it’s not “you who follow me” but “you who have followed me.” And Jesus is not only speaking to his 12 current disciples here. It’s not a contradiction

>> No.15089544

>>15089520
This is a boomer tier meme at this point.

>> No.15089551

>>15089517
>Benedict was succeeded by Pope Pius XI who was decidedly supportive of Jews. In 1928, the Vatican under his leadership issued a statement that was cited by rescuers during the Holocaust. It said that the Church “just as it reproves all rancours in conflicts between peoples, to the maximum extent condemns hatred of the people once chosen by God, the hatred that commonly goes by the name of anti-Semitism.” In November 1931, the chief rabbi of Milan thanked the Pope for his appeals against anti-Semitism and his continuing support for Italy’s Jews.

You sure about this?

>> No.15089560

>>15089544
calling something you don’t like a boomer doesn’t make it go away

>> No.15089581

>>15089560
Seriously though, educate yourself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

>> No.15089586

>>15088080
Leave it to the jews to make up a god who is just as conceded as them.

>> No.15089589

>>15089581
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/museum-of-the-bible-dead-sea-scrolls-forgeries/
Wait until you see the...

>> No.15089591

>>15089581
what do you think you’re proving?

>> No.15089616
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15089616

>>15088907

>> No.15089634

>>15089589
Read your own source

>> No.15089643

>>15088657
It's a metaphorical sword, you brainlet. Jesus isn't literally going to be slicing up niggas.

>> No.15089668

>>15089591

>the Bible can’t be accurate over time and translation
>ancient documents show the modern translations are accurate
>WhAt R YoU TrYinG tO PrOvE

>> No.15089669

>>15089634
>I will not say that there are no unauthentic fragments among the MOB fragments, but in my view, their inauthenticity as a whole has still not been proven beyond doubt. This doubt is due to the fact that similar testing has not been done on undisputed Dead Sea Scroll manuscripts in order to provide a base line for comparison, including the fragments from the Judean Desert sites that are later than Qumran. The report expects us to conclude that abnormalities abound without demonstrating what is normal.

They could all be forgeries, anon.

>> No.15089699

>>15089616
He's talking about the Christian God which is the same as Yahweh.

>> No.15089739

>>15089669
Only the post 2002 copies sold to private collectors. It literally says it right there in your link.

>> No.15089743

>>15089668
>the Bible can’t be accurate over time and translation
I didn’t say this. you can’t read.
>le ebin zoomer twitter writing
go back.

>> No.15089746

>>15089528
>>15089551
100 years’ worth of conciliatory attitudes are cool and all but there is a long list of popes condemning jews to hell. And, it goes without saying, rabbi judaism and Jesus-era abrahamism are two different things and 500 years apart.

>> No.15089749

>>15089739
Which also puts doubts on the whole collection, and we'll see if they do the same tests with everything.

>> No.15089759

>>15089746
And? It's all in the past now. What's the pointing in bringing this stuff up in the year 2020?

>> No.15089766

>>15089746
>And, it goes without saying, rabbi judaism and Jesus-era abrahamism are two different things
massive cope

>> No.15089768

>>15089759
Do I really have to stress how important tradition is regarding Catholicism? Are you retarded?

>> No.15089774

>>15089749
It puts doubt on that specific private collection, not the collection held at Shrine of the Book in Jerusalem

>> No.15089782

>>15089768
Looking at what your pope said, doesn't seem much to me. He's quick to disregard it apparently.

>> No.15089788

>>15089766
It’s a historical fact, imbecile. There were three different forms of abrahamism during Jesus’ era and none of them were the judaism that’s alive today. Like it or not it’s a fact, you twig worshipper LARPfaggot.

>> No.15089791

>>15089743
>being purposefully obtuse
>gets a good faith response
>uhh actually I didn’t say that
>never clarifies poorly communicated attempt at an argument

You win this one anon

>> No.15089795

>>15089782
Why are you talking about something you don’t understand nor care to research, you dense motherfucker

>> No.15089800

>>15089791
>poorly communicated attempt at an argument
lol. stick to twitter and /pol/ buddy

>> No.15089802

>>15089795
I sure as hell ain't reading 2000 years of history that doesn't matter in the slightest for anybody.

>> No.15089827

>>15089800
>not realizing you did it again

The absolute state

>> No.15089831

>>15089788
>and none of them were the judaism that’s alive today
>not like christianity which has remained totally unchanged since

>> No.15089832

>>15089802
>largest religion in the world
>has the most important book of all times from a non-religious standpoint
>produced many great philosophers and writers
Yeah anon go ahead don’t waste your time

>> No.15089841

>>15089832
>largest religion in the world
That's Islam.
>has the most important book of all times from a non-religious standpoint
The Greeks?
>produced many great philosophers and writers
Yeah, the Greeks.

>Yeah anon go ahead don’t waste your time
Nah, I'm waiting for Islam to take over.

>> No.15089845

>>15089831
Catholicism and orthodoxy have evolved but maintained their core and continuity through time. Abrahamism and rabbi judaism have a 500 year break between each other.

>> No.15089853

>>15089841
The largest religion in the world is Christianity, Mohamed. You and your pedo religion can fuck off

>> No.15089862

>>15089853
You can cry about it, but you can't change reality. Nobody cares about your church, cope.

>> No.15089870

>>15089862
I know arabs can’t really understand how numbers work past 9, but Islam isn’t the largest religion in the world.

>> No.15089874

>>15089845
I'd love to ask what core really means but I'm sure I'd get some bullshit response, so I give it up.

>> No.15089901

>>15089870
Only if you add Catholics+Protestants+Orthodox. If you consider those three separate units, Islam is the biggest.

>> No.15089910

>>15089901
Nobody considers them different. If you do this, you should also do it to Islam anyway, split up Sunni and Shia

>> No.15089918

>>15089910
Wait, I thought the Catholic Church was the only Church. Are Evangelicals real Church for you now?

>> No.15089923

>>15089918
I’m not that anon

>> No.15089930

>>15089874
Tradition and overall doctrine, eg apostolic succession. If you want to learn about it you can read John Henry Newman’s An essay on the development of Christian doctrine.

>>15089901
Islam is also divided and isn’t a monolithic religion.

>> No.15089938

>>15089930
But do you consider other Christian Churches as real Christianity?

>> No.15089944

>>15089910
>nobody considers them different they’ve just been fighting over disagreements for 500 years lol

>> No.15089950

>>15089938
The only true churches are catholic and orthodox. Christianity is still bigger than Islam, no matter how much you try to cope

>> No.15089961

>>15089950
So you delete every single Protestant from your math? Now how many are left? Because Islam does not deny the division.

>> No.15089970

>>15089950
Are you kidding? Why is Catholicism more “true” than my Protestant church? Justify it with scripture.

>>15089944
Yeah I was unclear. Most people today consider people who believe that Jesus was the only son of God as explained in the Bible to be Christians. Some apparently do not. Those are in the minority

>> No.15089990

>>15089970
>Are you kidding? Why is Catholicism more “true” than my Protestant church? Justify it with scripture.

They can't. This is the true face of Catholicism. They betray everyone in their backs when needed.

>> No.15090006

>>15089970
Matthew 16:18 Apostolic succession is the difference between real churches and heretics. Protestantism is the modern man Arianism.
Either way, Christianity is defined by tradition, not scripture. I don’t give a fuck about sola scriptura let alone other ridiculous prottie claims. You’d have to be a retard to believe the Bible, one of the most complicated and esoteric books of all time, demands a literal interpretation.

>>15089961
...are you retarded? When I speak about Christianity I include what are, sadly, heretics. Sunni Muslims do not consider Shia Muslims real Muslims and vice versa, you should know this.

>> No.15090014

>>15089990
>They betray everyone in their backs when needed.
Funny you talk about betrayal when Martin Luther himself hid in a castle when shit hit the fan and his followers were slaughtered by royalty - Protestant royalty.

>> No.15090015

>>15090006
>...are you retarded? When I speak about Christianity I include what are, sadly, heretics. Sunni Muslims do not consider Shia Muslims real Muslims and vice versa, you should know this.

So the heretic are real Christians after all. Guess we don't need your Church anymore. Muslims do not deny other Muslims the way Christians do though, which is disgusting by the way.

>> No.15090018

>>15090006
>Christianity is defined by tradition
So you'll allow butt sex to happen in greece and Italy because of tradition

>> No.15090027

>>15090015
>Muslims do not deny other Muslims the way Christians do though
No, they bomb each other hoping for 72 virgins on the other side. Truly a disgusting, sex obsessed, and materialistic faith.

>> No.15090041

>>15090018
That’s weak bait at best and being a literal retard at worst, anon. John of God was protestant, what are we going to do about that one?

>> No.15090049

>>15090006
>Either way, Christianity is defined by tradition, not scripture.

Absolutely moronic take. This is probably one of the dumbest things I have ever read.

Show me the scripture that states that Peter’s authority can be inherited.

>> No.15090052

>>15090027
Like the history of Christianity is so beautiful lmao. How about you go down the streets and burn some Protestants?

>> No.15090064

>>15090041
I didn't even name him in the first place. Having male lovers was commonplace in roman and greek states. Are you denying traditions?

>> No.15090069

>>15090006
>Christianity is defined by tradition
You mean, like the Roman tradition that Christianity erased in order to impose their own?

>> No.15090085

>>15090006
>You’d have to be a retard to believe the Bible
well said

>> No.15090090

>>15090049
Are you fucking retarded? Apostolic succession happened before the Bible was compiled you dense motherfucker. I already told you sola scriptura is fucking stupid. Tradition defined the Bible, you imbecile - sola scriptura overrides the scriptures themselves. Holy shit how stupid can you be you cannot justify sola scriptura with scriptures either. Fuck me Protestants even removed books from the Bible

>>15090052
Happened centuries ago. Muslims bombings are happening nowadays. Cannot blame them, it’s a bloodthirsty religion and it was like that from day one. Wasn’t Muhammad a desert raider preying on caravans? Oh lewd

>> No.15090104

>>15090064
What? Do you think that’s an argument?

>>15090069
>zeitgeist tier arguments
Yeah sure thing buddy. Easter comes from Ishtar and Christmas is sun worship, you cracked the code!

>>15090085
you cheeky motherfucker

>> No.15090107

>>15090090
>Muslims bombings are happening nowadays.
And guess why it is happened? Guess who disturbed the cohesion in Palestine and brought the conflict?

Hmmm, can't quite grasp the names... maybe you could tell me. Because your Catholic friend told me you're the real anti-semites.

>> No.15090110

>>15090090
If tradition defines the bible, where does the church get its authority?

>> No.15090117

>>15090110
Apostolic succession, imbecile

>> No.15090118

>>15090104
>Yeah sure thing buddy. Easter comes from Ishtar and Christmas is sun worship, you cracked the code!

So it's fine to destroy traditions that aren't your?

>> No.15090123

>>15090107
I think the hate between Muslims is a little older than that but whatever helps you cope, Ali

>> No.15090126

>>15090117
From who, where and when?

>> No.15090128

>>15090117
And where does the apostolic succession get its authority?

>> No.15090131

>>15090118
Yes

>>15090126
Jesus Christ himself. How are you not getting this?

>> No.15090133

>>15090123
So you're telling me terrorism always happened in 1500 years of history?

>> No.15090140

>>15090131
Where in Mark does Jesus say such authority is to be inherited or passed from one person to another

>> No.15090141

>>15090131
>Jesus Christ himself. How are you not getting this?
Oh really, give me something he wrote himself.

>> No.15090144

>>15090131
Ok. So do we know Christ gave this authority from scripture or from tradition?

>> No.15090154

>>15090131
>Yes

Then why are you crying so much like a sissy about Protestants and Muslims? You destroyed, now you get destroyed. Isn't God the God of justice?

>> No.15090155

>>15090144
Lmao got him there

>> No.15090166

>>15090133
Mohammad loved to terrorize caravan workers himself. Preying on the weak and terrorizing the weak is Islam 101.

>>15090140
Jesus Christ himself designed Peter and then Peter designed successors. Are you doubting Jesus’ decision, anon? How far are protties willing to go?

>>15090144
>>15090141
Apostolic succession happened before the Bible was compiled. Why are you making me repeat myself? Is this a prottie thing?

>>15090154
Christianity is still bigger than Islam. Stop coping, Ali

>> No.15090170

>>15090166
>Jesus Christ himself designed Peter and then Peter designed successors. Are you doubting Jesus’ decision, anon? How far are protties willing to go?

What gives peter the authority to designate? You refuse to answer this. Just because Jesus gives Peter authority to build the church doesn’t mean Peter can transfer it.

>> No.15090184

>>15090166
>Mohammad loved to terrorize caravan workers himself. Preying on the weak and terrorizing the weak is Islam 101.

So Muhammad, peace be upon him, terrorized caravans for 1500 years?

>> No.15090190

>>15090166
>Apostolic succession happened before the Bible was compiled. Why are you making me repeat myself? Is this a prottie thing?

So you were there and saw all of this, right?

>> No.15090192

>>15090170
So Jesus gave Peter the authority to build his church but not really? Are you stupid? Peter can build Christ’s church but he can’t designate successor because it contradicts your world view?
Peter can build his church but fuck maintaining it on a long term? Anon I cannot even begin to comprehend the mental games you have to make to believe this.
>here man start a business but don’t you dare name who’s going to keep it running when you are no longer around

>>15090184
He did it during his lifetime. When he died his followers started killing each other and that’s what’s been going on for 1500 years.

>> No.15090195

>>15090166
>Apostolic succession happened before the Bible was compiled.
What I'm trying to understand is where this authority came from. You say Jesus himself decreed it. And you say this all happened before we had the scripture to defend it. And you say tradition trumps scripture anyway. So it sounds like you're saying the church's authority derives from tradition. Can you clear this up for me?

>> No.15090198

>>15090184
>So Muhammad, peace be upon him

Opinion immediately disregarded

>> No.15090211

>>15090192
>He did it during his lifetime. When he died his followers started killing each other and that’s what’s been going on for 1500 years.

You should write a book about this, brother. You have amazing skills as a historian.

>>15090198
Cope.

>> No.15090216

>>15090192
Jesus said “on this rock I’ll build my church” not “on this rock, and then the next 40-50 rocks depending on who those rocks select I’ll build my church”

It’s more like giving someone the authority to become the founder of a business. It’s not like “founder status” is transferable just because there’s a new CEO

>> No.15090220

>>15090198
You're the Christian equivalent of a militant atheist.

>> No.15090234

>>15090195
Oh my god. It came from Jesus HIMSELF, he named someone he PERSONALLY knew. Then Peter named someone he PERSONALLY knew to succeed him. And so on and so on. How is this hard to understand? That’s how tradition works and develops. Apostolic succession was literally started by Jesus Christ, son of GOD - that’s where the authority comes from.

>>15090216
lmao what the fuck, jump all the hoops you want. Christ named Peter and it’s on the Bible you understand only literally.

>> No.15090240

>>15090216
Funny how you affirm Jesus saying stuff so much when we can't even affirm the authenticity of any book in the New Testament...

>> No.15090258

>>15090234
>Oh my god. It came from Jesus HIMSELF
This isn't what I'm contesting. I want to know where your knowledge that Jesus did this came from. Did it come from scripture? or did it come from the tradition of the church?

>> No.15090260

>>15090234
Cope

>>15090240
See >>15089581

>> No.15090266

>>15090234
>It came from Jesus HIMSELF, he named someone he PERSONALLY knew. Then Peter named someone he PERSONALLY knew to succeed him.

So Jesus com to Peter and say "you're the rock", and he just goes to another person and say "here, you're the rock now cause I don't want this". Is that how it works?

If we're talking about succession, how Jews understood priestly succession again?

>> No.15090270

>>15088080
no

>> No.15090274

>>15090260
Oh, so the Dead Sea Scrolls are the originals from the time of Jesus??

Holy shit, nobody knew that!

>> No.15090283

>>15090258
Are you fucking retarded? I told you already. We know it came from Jesus because of APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. It's a TRADITION it started with CHRIST HIMSELF.
Even if we didnt have the Bible, which we didnt until 200 AD, WE ALREADY HAD APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION.
>it didnt happen because we dont have it on writing even though its been happening for 2000 years uninterrumpted

>>15090260
and now this retarded shit? what's next, denying Jesus as a historical figure? no, just no. fuck you, fuck protestants, fuck this thread

>> No.15090289

>>15090283
> what's next, denying Jesus as a historical figure?

Good to know you saw him personally.

>> No.15090306

>>15090266
>Peter, build my church
>but dont you dare try to name a successor. When you die fuck these people
really? Jesus gave Peter the authority to build His church. Peter then built his church, which includes naming who's going to manage it next. I cannot understand why this is hard to understand. The Church Peter built compiled the Bible 200 years after that.

>>15090289
fuck you, thats all you are getting from me

>> No.15090315

>>15090283
>It's a TRADITION
So our knowledge of the church's authority derives from the church's tradition?

>> No.15090317

>>15090306
>Jesus gave Peter the authority to build His church. Peter then built his church, which includes naming who's going to manage it next. I cannot understand why this is hard to understand. The Church Peter built compiled the Bible 200 years after that.
First you show me the original manuscript, then we talk.

>> No.15090325

>>15090315
Basically, yes. The Church creates the credo. So they have nothing to say about Protestants other than "muh tradition!!"

>> No.15090330
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15090330

>>15090283
>no, just no. fuck you, fuck protestants, fuck this thread

>> No.15090335
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15090335

>>15088080
Show me a single 'contradiction' which isn't trivially explainable...

>> No.15090341

>>15090317
I believe I already told you to fuck off

>>15090315
The Church's authority comes from, need I remind you again, Jesus Christ. Tradition is the set of rules and principles that came from Christ himself and evolved through time. The Bible belong inside that very tradition, as it wasnt compiled in Jesus' time but 200 years later by the Church, that Jesus started when He said "Peter..." and so on and so on.

>> No.15090361

>>15090341
You can cry a river buddy, you know you can't prove anything you say.

>Tradition is the set of rules and principles that came from Christ himself and evolved through time.

Show us where Jesus wrote anything dude. Show us the originals. Where is it? All you can do is talk, talk. Without the argument of authority, Catholicism is jack shit.

>> No.15090367

>>15090335
>>15090315

>>15090341
And we know Christ gave the church authority because... it's church tradition. We don't need to look at scripture or anything because... it's church tradition that the church has authority.

>> No.15090377

>>15090361
>there's not a single historical fact in existence besides what I saw last week
Yeah, sure thing, man. Even the muslim dude wrote better bait.

>>15090367
If you cannot understand how succession works then I can't help you, man. The Bible comes from Catholic Tradition, so you believe in it one way or the other.

>> No.15090382

>>15090325
>they have nothing to say about Protestants other than "muh tradition!!"
And they don't even need anything more to say. Being untraditional is sufficient (by definition) to be innovation (i.e. false) and thus not taught by the divinely guided apostles and their successors. Protestantism is instantly self-refuting when you realize that there is only tradition and even scripture is merely a part of it.

>> No.15090387

>>15090335
>Synoptic gospels: the last supper was held during Passover
>Gospel of John: the last supper happened prior to Passover, which started after Jesus’ death
BTFO

>> No.15090393

>>15090377
Then show us the historical fucking proof you mongoloid.

>> No.15090401

>>15090382
>muh tradition the post

See? That's all you can do.

>> No.15090404

>>15090387
>whats the difference between jewish passover and christian passover
stop anon you are embarrasing yourself

>> No.15090406

>>15090382
You should read about the papacy during the medieval period and see how well the Catholic tradition or succession fared. See if you can even establish a correct genealogy that follows the original church.

>> No.15090409

>>15090367
>And we know Christ gave the church authority because... it's church tradition.
How else would you know except by this being the case? Church tradition is guided by the Holy Spirit, if you want to deny this then feel free to join the bugman atheist crowd.
>>15090393
>historical fucking proof
Read the New Testament.

>> No.15090413

>>15090409
>Read the New Testament.
Give the historical proof, i.e. the originals.

>> No.15090412

>>15090401
explain where the bible comes from then if not from the church, faggot

>> No.15090417

>>15090406
I don't know how this refuted anything I said. If the same applies to any group, they're a false teaching. Protestantism is merely very obviously so.

>> No.15090421

>>15090377
I'm not religious. The fact that Catholicism derives its truth from tradition seems absurd to me.

>> No.15090420

>>15090412
Exactly, the Church created the Bible. This anon gets it.

>> No.15090428

>>15090413
>i.e. the originals.
You heard it here, folks. Plato isn't real. Neither is Aristotle or anyone who wasn't written sometime after the 1800s.
lmao

>> No.15090439

>>15090428
Plato didn't create a religion and used a manuscript to validate his authority over people. Retarded example.

>> No.15090440

>>15090417
>implying a doctrine is still better because it coincides with an original structure of authority, even if that authority is now corrupt and incomprehensible
If you hold on to this view past your teen age years then your education has failed

>> No.15090441

>if you want to deny this then feel free to join the bugman atheist crowd.
>If you're gonna disagree with me then you're a dork.
The absolute state of theology

>> No.15090443

>contradictions

That you're too stupid to understand something doesn't make it contradictory

>> No.15090445

>>15090421
There is no other way to derive truth other than from God.

>>15090413
Go to a liturgy and just listen to the texts being spoken themselves.

>> No.15090451

>>15090445
So, the Church validates itself. Nice.

>> No.15090454

>>15090439
Platonic philosophy is quite literally one of the pillars of Western thought and civilization, alongside Christianity. How much of a retard are you?

>>15090440
When you are past the age of 14, you start to wonder if Tradition was right all along, though. You have to stop swinging shit at the wall before you ask yourself that.

>> No.15090462

>>15090441
If you disagree with God existing and guiding his chosen people then you are an atheist bugman. How could anyone possibly disagree with this?

>> No.15090468

>15088080
>try to pick up again the OT to finish it
>Implying you read your post, let alone anything in your post
U don't even deserve a (U)

>> No.15090476

>>15090454
There is no point in doubting Plato's existence. There is a point in doubting if Jesus really gave the authority of the Church to Peter and Peter alone or not. Fucking apples and oranges.

Stop being retarded.

>> No.15090477

>>15090454
So you don't vet the structure or attempt objective validation at all, you simply agree with it because it is congenial to you. There it is boys he admits it /thread

>> No.15090480

>>15090454
Plato's existence isn't a requirement for Platonic philosophy to be true. Jesus' existence is a requirement for Christianity to be true.

>> No.15090493

>>15090462
>his chosen people
Are you going to call me a goy next?

>> No.15090494

>>15090476
But how could you know Plato wrote what you think Plato wrote? Show me the originals, faggot.

>>15090477
>/thread your own post
fucking newfags I swear. Reddit might be more up to your speed.

>> No.15090495

>>15090451
What else could validate it? Please give me an example where you validate a truth without ultimately referring to God standing at the very based of your justification for it.

>> No.15090506

>>15090494
We don't know if Socrates existed and his philosophy is still valid. Christianity isn't mere philosophy, there's a whole power structure behind it and needs to be verified.

You can keep pretending to be retarded, but that's up to you.

>> No.15090508

>>15090493
You unironically are. The Church is the new Israel and everyone outside of it are goyim waiting to be joined to the chosen people.

>> No.15090516

>>15090495
What can you expect from Protestants, man? They don't really believe in God, they merely abide by what bits and pieces of the Bible they like because it gives them piece of mind. Modern day Pharisees.

>> No.15090526

>>15090495
We can prove mathematical concepts without referring to a god.

>> No.15090527

>>15090495
So you admit there's nothing to validate other than authority itself? That's cool by me, just admit it.

>> No.15090543

>>15090527
>being this much of a retard
It's been told to you time and time again that Jesus Christ himself validates it. You can repeat your question all you want, but you'll keep getting the truth. You tried to make anons slip and refer to the Bible and you fucking lost. Deal with it.

>>15090506
>and needs to be verified.
No, it doesn't, you soulless bugman.

>> No.15090549
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15090549

>>15090526
No.
>>15090527
Yes.

>> No.15090557

>>15090543
How do we know Christ is real?

>> No.15090563

>>15090526
Nope. You can't even show that your ways of validating these truths are themselves correct. It's a known problem in mathematics.

>> No.15090564

>>15090543
>wah wah wah the Church, the Church says! No need to validate coz the Church says!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

NOW we know why Rationalism, the Reform and Enlightenment happened.

>> No.15090578
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15090578

>>15090557
Because He existed as is described in the Gospels and the Holy Bible. It's a valid historical account of His life both pre and post incarnation.

>> No.15090585

>>15090564
you have to go back

>>15090557
You have to pray, anon.

>> No.15090590

>>15088265
Yeah, the false prophet Mohammed even tried to retcon all of that stuff because he thought it was embarrassing -- if those other "prophets" could be bad men, what would that say about Mo...

>> No.15090592
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15090592

>>15090564
>Rationalism, the Reform and Enlightenment
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

>> No.15090598
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15090598

>>15090592
Ok, prostitute of Babel.

>> No.15090618

>>15090578
That would mean scripture trumps tradition if we ultimately rely on scripture for the knowledge of Christ.

>> No.15090628

>>15090585
>It's real in my head

>> No.15090637

>>15090618
Scripture is just written form of tradition. You could refer to the prophets preaching and the words themselves spoken by the historical characters in the Bible, but it's just more clunky to say that way.

>> No.15090657

>>15090563
>read math textbook
>not a single proof contains reference to god
damn dude you should tell every mathematician in the world that they’re doing math wrong

>> No.15090660

>>15090637
If it's just tradition that's been written down then we're back to the church's authority being based on the church's tradition.

>> No.15090677

>>15090657
Math textbooks don't need to talk about validating what they're doing, just like engineers don't need to talk about validating the math they're using. You just accept it as a given when you're studying it. But you could just open literally any set theory/foundations textbook and you'll see that the atheist gets BTFO immediately.
>that they’re doing math wrong
They're not doing it "wrong", they just have zero justification for any truth claims they make if they're atheistic.

>> No.15090678

>>15090637
Wait were any of the people who wrote about Jesus's life actually there? I'm not Christian I genuinely want to know.

>> No.15090690

>>15090677
If you can't prove 1+1=2 before you prove God then how the fuck can you prove God lmao

>> No.15090708

>>15090678
>Wait were any of the people who wrote about Jesus's life actually there?
Saint John the Evangelist was actually there and he even states that in the text. Saint Paul saw Christ after his crucifixion and converted. Many such cases.

>> No.15090726

>>15090708
Then that's not based on tradition.

>> No.15090744

>>15090690
>how the fuck can you prove God
God isn't a rationalistic bugman item on a checklist you try to "prove" with epic science. He is the ultimate foundation for all existence and all truth, and once you deny that, you're immediately made fun of by the fact that you can't even justify the valid proofs for basic truths like 1+1=2. You're building your house on sand if you're an atheist.

>But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

>> No.15090752

>>15090726
We know that John and Paul existed and are the writers of the texts because of tradition.

>> No.15090753

>>15090744
Calling things "bugman" and "epic" doesn't prove you point. You just sound like a larper.

>> No.15090761

>>15090752
So our knowledge of Christ's historical existence comes from tradition?

>> No.15090762

>>15090753
Why would it need to prove my point? Only God proves it, as no words can. I'm just calling things as they are.

>> No.15090780

>>15090762
How do you expect to have a discussion like this?

>> No.15090799

>>15090761
Other than the mere truth of his existence, yes, people actually saw Christ and only then wrote the events down. We believe that their teachings (both oral and written) are divinely guided and that Christ preserved his teaching through the Holy Spirit. It's absurd to claim that all of what the apostles taught is contained in the NT texts. Even the text itself famously refutes that:
So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
(2 Thes 2:15)

>> No.15090816
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15090816

>>15090753
>Calling things "bugman" and "epic" doesn't prove you point.
>You just sound like a larper.

>> No.15090917
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15090917

>>15090816

>> No.15091181

>>15088323
Well you see this one sentence out of context from a huge book explains everything, if you disagree its because you're going to burn in screaming hell forever due to god's infinite love and mercy. Just shows how humble i am