/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15073687]

where does atheism fall short ?

[Anonymous No.15073718]

>>15073687
e4

[Anonymous No.15073727]

>>15073687
>>15073718
Your move atheist

[Anonymous No.15073731]

>>15073718
>>15073727
C5

[Anonymous No.15073732]

>>15073687
If by atheism you mean the explicit modern confession of being an atheist, I'd say being a negative belief a.k.a. a belief in the non-existence of something, instead of a positive belief. The entire "atheist" movement self-defines through negation, comparison and contrarianism and serves nothing besides a schizoliberal consummerist secular agenda. It's a very easy movement to co-opt into stupid ideologies.
If, however, you mean the larger umbrella under which falls any religion or philosophy that does not recognize the existence of a God or of an especific pantheon, I'd say it's the difficulty to explain how does a world without a primary cause takes place, or at least, how to explain the nature of this principle-less reality while refraining from the "it's just an illusion bro" thing.

[Anonymous No.15073738]

>>15073687
faith to physicalities instead of metaphysicalities.

[Anonymous No.15073740]

>>15073731
Nc3

[Anonymous No.15073747]

>>15073740
Please play this out it will decide my reality

[Anonymous No.15073751]

>>15073740
Nc6

[Anonymous No.15073757]

The place where they try really hard to say its self made and possible but always fall short. Meaning

[Anonymous No.15073764]

>>15073747
But I also don't know a lot about chess so I need color commentary

[Anonymous No.15073771]

>>15073751
Nf3

[Anonymous No.15073806]

Neither theism or atheism can possibly prove their point; the highest being/cause is transcendental. However, where religion appeals to our emotion (having an ultimate cause satisfies our reason, having a God creates something akin to Leibniz' utopia of morality, etc.), atheism merely negates this satisfaction with an equally unstable theory. The only real higher ground is to say that there is a higher being but we have no knowledge of him and therefore should act as we naturally would. Otherwise, who's to say if this highest being prefers chastity/hedonism or vice/virtue. It is perfectly possible that the access to 'heaven' is actually granted only to rapists or murderers. In short, neither side knows anything but at least theism is comfy.

[Anonymous No.15073832]

>>15073687
in the war

[Anonymous No.15073846]

>>15073732
First half of your post read like a fine wine going down my throat, but the second half read like you had a stroke as soon as you started writing it and turned it into a word salad. It's probably just me, but I couldn't figure out what you were trying to communicate with all those words.

[Anonymous No.15073867]

>>15073687
Atheism leads to despair, meaninglessness, suicide, lack of contact with family and reproduction, and other things. No one knows the truth of God’s existence, yet the atheist thinks it virtuous to deny paths of meaning and happiness and spiritual development. He worships truth as if he’s closer to it than anyone else, and for what purpose? Is the ultimate purpose of evolution to produce creatures that know the truth? How could such an end arise? The atheist’s only complaint should be of his unwillingness to have faith, which is just an important tool as reason.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.161.12.2303

https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2003-06077-010

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1064748112604503

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1993-18209-001

https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?hl=en-US&publication_year=2005&pages=797-823&author=F+Van+Tubergen&author=M+Te+Grotenhuis&author=W.+Ultee&title=Denomination%2C+religious+context%2C+and+suicide%3A+Neo-Durkheimian+multilevel+explanations+tested+with+individual+and+contextual+data#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DG5Quu87ycCkJ

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1521/suli.32.4.404.22333

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link%3famp

http://www.econ.cam.ac.uk/people-files/faculty/si105/FINAL_Fruehwirth_Iyer_Zhang_Dec2017.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4482518/

[Anonymous No.15073888]

>>15073687
atheism is a passive belief structure, i.e. i dont believe there is a god/i believe there isn't a god
it is strictly inferior to anti-theist beliefs which proscribe the ridicule of the religious, the destruction of their temples and the rape of their women

[Anonymous No.15073897]

>>15073888
>proscribe
prescribe*

[Anonymous No.15073907]

>>15073888
but an atheist believes it’s better to not believe in God, hence his lack of belief.

[Anonymous No.15073917]

>>15073687
In aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.15073924]

>>15073687
One of the best topic presentations in this board's entire history. Kek'd almost 3 seconds.

[Anonymous No.15073929]

>>15073806
>that there is a higher being
How do you know?
>but at least theism is comfy
As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[Anonymous No.15073933]

>>15073907
no it doesn't
ive heard too many atheist cucks tell me they wish they could believe

[Anonymous No.15073944]

>>15073933
belief is not something totally under our control. Something is holding them back. Something tells them that seeking God is a waste of time. So overall they still believe it’s better to be an atheist

[Anonymous No.15073951]

>>15073944
no, it's simply a matter of them possessing the adequate mental faculties to recognize the lack of a diety, but being too much of a pussy to impose their will on others

[Anonymous No.15073973]

>>15073951
cringe

[Anonymous No.15074087]

>>15073687
everywhere except btfo-ing protties (but anyone could do that)

[Anonymous No.15074104]

Probably the kalam cosmological argument in its latest form. With the universe's creation and since the dismissal of eternalism it seems to be in the realm of probability. Either side can't really lay claim to an absolute knowing though. There's also interesting historical evidence for Jesus.

[Anonymous No.15074110]

>>15074087
Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humb

[Anonymous No.15074168]

>>15073687
saying x people are retarded and wrong doesn't make you better. christian are retards who just want to get into heaven and don't have real principles, but some dumbass acknowledging how stupid an abr*hamoid is doesn't make him smart.

[Anonymous No.15074182]

How can something come from nothing?

Checkmate, atheists.

[Anonymous No.15074192]

How's the chess game

[Anonymous No.15074211]

>>15074182
who created the creator(s)?

checkmate, godfags.

[Anonymous No.15074214]

>>15074182
>NOOOOOOOO nothing can't create something because i said so!
>NOOOOOOOO nothing can include something otherwise my jew on a stick isn't dogerino fluffy god dog boi and i can't heck get into heavenarony

[Anonymous No.15074216]

>>15074211
The Lord works in mysterious ways, you pleb.

[Anonymous No.15074240]

THIS IS A CHESS THREAD FAGGOTS

[Anonymous No.15074548]

>>15073687
discord . gg/M8UpmE7

[Anonymous No.15074642]

>>15073867
if you only believe in god because it's virtuous, you're going to hell, too. Also, you are weak for fearing suicide and loneliness.

[Anonymous No.15074654]

>>15073687
Mathematical Platonism, and modern science by extension, is an inherently religious perspective. So yes, for most, atheism is just another religion.

[Anonymous No.15074667]

>>15074642
>Also, you are weak for fearing suicide and loneliness.
lmao your behavior was predicted so well.

[Anonymous No.15074681]

>>15073771
D6

[Anonymous No.15074690]

>>15073867
>Is the ultimate purpose of evolution
hundreds of years and religitards still don’t get it

[Anonymous No.15074752]

>>15074690
I can’t count the number of atheists I’ve heard say they only care about truth as an end. When I point out to them that they only use reason as a tool to benefit, and that faith is also a tool to benefit, they start worshipping truth as if it’s the only thing that matters.

[Anonymous No.15074777]

>>15074642
Yeah, but humans are weak creatures that will come to believe anything if they profess a belief in it long enough.

[Anonymous No.15074778]

>>15074752
Believe truth! Shun error!—these, we see, are two materially different laws; and by choosing between them we may end by coloring differently our whole intellectual life. We may regard the chase for truth as paramount, and the avoidance of error as secondary; or we may, on the other hand, treat the avoidance of error as more imperative, and let truth take its chance. Clifford, in the instructive passage which I have quoted, exhorts us to the latter course. Believe nothing, he tells us, keep your mind in suspense forever, rather than by closing it on insufficient evidence incur the awful risk of believing lies. You, on the other hand, may think that the risk of being in error is a very small matter when compared with the blessings of real knowledge, and be ready to be duped many times in your investigation rather than postpone indefinitely the chance of guessing true. I myself find it impossible to go with Clifford. We must remember that these feelings of our duty about either truth or error are in any case only expressions of our passional life. Biologically considered, our minds are as ready to grind out falsehood as veracity, and he who says, "Better go without belief forever than believe a lie!" merely shows his own preponderant private horror of becoming a dupe. He may be critical of many of his desires and fears, but this fear he slavishly obeys. He cannot imagine any one questioning its binding force. For my own part, I have also a horror of being duped; but I can believe that worse things than being duped may happen to a man in this world: so Clifford's exhortation has to my ears a thoroughly fantastic sound. It is like a general informing his soldiers that it is better to keep out of battle forever than to risk a single wound. Not so are victories either over enemies or over nature gained. Our errors are surely not such awfully solemn things. In a world where we are so certain to incur them in spite of all our caution, a certain lightness of heart seems healthier than this excessive nervousness on their behalf.

[Anonymous No.15074842]

>>15074681
Bc4

[Anonymous No.15074867]

>>15073888
Check out the edge on that one.

[Anonymous No.15075612]

>>15073867
You've never actually met an adult atheist in real life, have you anon?

[Anonymous No.15075637]

>>15073687
It is a form of religion.

[Anonymous No.15075675]

ATHEIST:
>LMAO GOD ISN'T REAL

Whoever the atheist is yelling at:
>Ok, go on

ATHEIST:
>NO U PROVE IT

[Anonymous No.15075737]

In the beginning there was ...

[Anonymous No.15075805]

>>15075737
A Big Bang! A big sort of explosion happened and then several years later earth was formed and little puddles of organic shit became monkeys and then those monkeys became our ancestors and we sort of just gained consciousness and developed science which has explained everything up to and including the meaning of life which is - #REF.

[Anonymous No.15075824]

niggercattle

[Anonymous No.15075831]

Under classical time controls, God has won.

[Anonymous No.15075834]

>>15073732
wow that sure was a lot of words you just said

[Anonymous No.15075884]

>>15074211
The creator is necessary so He was not created

[Anonymous No.15075909]

>>15073732
Good post. The average reading level of this board must be stuck in high-school.

[Anonymous No.15075924]

>>15075884
the point is godcuck, if a creator can just spawn into existence from nothing, then so can our material world.

[Anonymous No.15075951]

>>15075924
World is contingent, depends on other things. God, in essence, does not. His essence is existence. Not depending on anything else to exist is the necessary quality to be, by definition, the first cause. You can use natural theology from there to discern the Divine attributes. Look into Aquinas

[Anonymous No.15075956]

>>15075824
Did he say that? Vid?

[Anonymous No.15075986]

>>15075956
it's been cleaned up a bit
https://invidio.us/watch?v=QmltIMPMeP0

[Anonymous No.15076329]

>>15075805
I just farted right now. It doesn't mean it happened on its own.

[Anonymous No.15076501]

>>15073687
It doesn't come pre-packaged with good next steps for what happens once you accept atheists are right:

>Gods not real, but what now?
Which is a REALLY important question for a lot of people given all the hats the church wears.

To understand how big the problem is, here's just a few things that Churches as social institutions do:

>Serve as a social safety net for the community's poorest and most hungry
>providing after-school care for poorer community members
>providing pre-school education
>providing elderly comfort and care (keeping the elderly connected to a community that can help dramatically reduces the need for them to enter a home, for example, and helping them fear death a little less so they feel happy before they go)
>providing labor banking for the community (people coming together to do things like e.g. home improvement)
>Source of moral grounding for troubled community members, reducing community violence and drug problems)
>Free in-person therapy (confession, mass) and free remote therapy for hard times (prayer)
>Place for weekly communal gathering and bonding
>In rural areas, often one of the primary sources of entertainment, meeting people, and place to find someone to get married
>Source of social trust for the community to unite when things are troubled or issues need resolving
>Help get unemployed members employed, provide the social connections for people without work to find employers they can rise within
>Provide a social harmony of shared worldview under which members can unite which, while basically impossible to measure, is either impossible or extremely difficult to replicate in the absence of religion.

Even if God's not real, the belief he was enabled all of the above in Churches across America. And none of it works if God's seen as not real, because that's the glue that holds all the other structures together.

Atheism doesn't really have a great replacement for some to most of these functions in a post-god society that isn't patchwork and less effective, and it's not obviously clear what the fix is.

[Anonymous No.15076542]

The real answer is that atheism is essentially a religion by the very nature of crowd mentality. Gustave Le Bon nailed it over 100 years ago.
>Were it possible to induce the masses to adopt atheism, disbelief would exhibit all the intolerant ardor of a religious sentiment, and in its exterior forms would soon become a cult.

[Anonymous No.15076581]

>>15074642
>DUDE you dont think wanton suicide is the hottest shit ever and something to be celebrated? WEAK BRO WEAK

[Anonymous No.15076584]

>>15073687
>>15073687
The fact that our entire simulacra hasn't vanished is solid proof against it.
>"Not any one of these is He; for He it is that causeth them to be, both all and each and every thing of all that are. Nor hath He left a thing beside that is-not; but they are all from things-that-are and not from things-that-are-not. For that the things-that-are-not have naturally no power of being anything, but naturally have the power of the inability-to-be. And, conversely, the things-that-are have not the nature of some time not-being."

[Anonymous No.15076586]

>>15073687
because they put the poo poo in the bum bum haha athetisms are dum haha

[Anonymous No.15076760]

>>15073732
Atheism is not a movement, it's just a rational refusal to believe in an extraordinary claim for which there is no evidence. It is theists who are defined by contrarianism, making their assertions in spite of the lack of evidence, in spite of the abundance of mutually exclusive and equally unsubstantiated spiritual claims, in spite of not even a compelling logical case. If you're talking about new-atheists and those engaged in a misguided blanket-crusade against spiritualism, then be specific.

Please don't equivocate between god and a primary cause; claims about the existence of god(s) are not so neutral and you know it. It is not logical to assume that the primary cause has anything like a 'will' or 'consciousness' or has anything to do with abstract principles.

[Anonymous No.15076788]

>>15075951
>Look into Aquinas
I did. It was nothing but word games, with absolutely zero back up from real world data

[Anonymous No.15076866]

>>15073806
Doesn't the observation that 'theism is comfy' make you a little skeptical about the god claim and the role psychological conceits probably play in perpetuating it?

>>15073867
Yes, I accept the utility argument for religion. Attacking what generally appears to be a healthy psychological strategy for the majority of people seems ill-advised. I think you're a being a bit unfair to atheists in asserting that we all harbour some petty contempt for the well being of spiritualists. This is not the case.

In purely philosophical terms though, atheists have the high ground (and you were the chosen ones). This "no one knows the truth..." stuff is a canard... No one knows that Godzilla won't rise out of the sea and stomp on Tokyo tomorrow, but I do know that you wouldn't stake your life on that happening.

[Anonymous No.15076888]

>>15074214
'Nothing' doesn't exist, it's just a concept.

[Anonymous No.15077452]

>>15073732
spoken like a true npc

[Anonymous No.15077961]

>>15073806
>you can't prove transcendent things
Stop with this retarded meme

[Anonymous No.15078161]

>>15073687
can't into metasystemic shit