/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15069889]

Schopenhauer said "beauty is the absence of suffering"

According to neuroscientists, when a person listens to beautiful music or sees a beautiful sight or person, the contrast in amygdala causes the brain to produce endorphins and reduce cortisol, hence producing extreme pleasure

Considering that endorphin is a pain-killer and cortisol is the stress hormone, I think Schopenhauer was the one closest to understanding the nature of beauty.

[Anonymous No.15069901]

Simplistic reductionist bro tier neuroscience take. The release of endorphins does not negate the rise in cortisol for sexual activity. In fact, cortisol levels rise throughout until orgasm and even then, cortisol will be higher than the non sexually active control.

[Anonymous No.15069912]

>>15069901
>>15069889
Fuck off labcoats. Science is fake and gay. it means nothing

[Anonymous No.15069913]

So if these hormones actually did what these people say they do (like serotonin/dopamine causing happiness) couldn't you just inject the shit and be fucked up?

You'd probably vomit and die because the shit is not true

[Anonymous No.15069919]

>>15069913
i dont know about injecting them but most recreational drugs feel good because they trigger the release of them in your brain to varying degrees

[Anonymous No.15069926]

This is factually incorrect. There is a tiny man who lives in your front cortex who decides whether things are beautiful or not. Plato knew this.

[Anonymous No.15069930]

>>15069919
I really don't think meth is triggering the same shit weed is up there, but I guess I've actually smoked weed and not pretended to study it

[Anonymous No.15069931]

>>15069901
niggah we aint talking about orgasm.

during sex, dopamine is greatly increased and dopamine is the one that drives pleasure during sex. a large amount of endorphins is released during the orgasm, and same areas in the brain that respond to pain are activated so that brain simulates pain to cause large increases in endorphins.

when a man is in love, vasopressin which causes the erection, is greatly increased. vasopressin also makes men much more aggressive and violent.

in contrast, in women, oxytocin and progesterone levels are increased, which makes them more neurotic and prone to crying. oxytocin and progesterone are binding and attachment hormones that cause forgetfulness and oblivion. they are produced to one can forget the past lovers and bind with the new one.

serotonin levels are greatly reduced because serotonin lowers the level of dopamine and oxytocin.

when one sees a beautiful person of the opposite sex, phenylamine is produced within a few seconds, which greatly increases dopamine like methamphetamine does. phenylamine is the one that causes love at first sight.

[Anonymous No.15069936]

>>15069930
cannabinoids and opiates mimic endorphine while meth and cocaine increase dopamine drastically

[Anonymous No.15069950]

>>15069913
lsd and mdma increase serotonin

meth and cocaine increase dopamine

dopamine is not happiness. dopamine is about vulgar carnal pleasures

[Anonymous No.15069952]

>>15069936
Heroin is also not triggering the same part weed is up there, but I guess I've actually done heroin and not just pretended to study it

[Anonymous No.15069973]

He never got tired of extolling this emancipation from the
"will" as the great advantage and use of the aesthetic state. Indeed, we could be
tempted to ask whether his basic conception of "Will and idea," the notion that there
could be a redemption from the "will" only through "representation," might have
taken its origin from his universalizing his sexual experience. (With all questions
concerning Schopenhauer's philosophy, incidentally, we should never fail to consider
that it is the conception of a twenty-six-year-old young man, so that it involves not
merely the specific details of Schopenhauer but also the specific details of that time of
life).

If, for example, we listen to one of the most expressive passages from the countless
ones he wrote to honour the aesthetic stance (World and Will and Idea, I, 231), we
hear its tone, the suffering, the happiness, the gratitude uttered in words like these:
That is the painless state which Epicurus valued as the highest good and as the
condition of the gods. For that moment, we are relieved of the contemptible drive of
the will. We celebrate a holiday [den Sabbat] from the penal servitude to the will. The
wheel of Ixion stands motionless.

What vehemence there is in these words! What a picture of torment and long
weariness! What an almost pathological contrast between "that moment" and the
usual "wheel of Ixion," the "penal servitude to the will," the "contemptible drive of
the will"! But if we assumed that Schopenhauer was right a hundred times about
himself, what would that provide by way of insight into the essence of the Beautiful?
Schopenhauer wrote about one effect of the Beautiful—the way it calms the will. But is there only one regular effect? Stendhal, as mentioned, a no less sensual person, but with a natural constitution much happier than Schopenhauer's, emphasized another
effect of the Beautiful: "the Beautiful promises happiness." To him the fact of the
matter seemed to be that the will ("interest") was aroused by the Beautiful.
And could we not finally object about Schopenhauer himself that he was very wrong
to think of himself as a Kantian in this matter, that he had completely failed to
understand Kant's definition of the Beautiful in a Kantian manner, that even he found
the Beautiful pleasing out of a certain "interest," even out of the strongest and most
personal interest of all, that of a torture victim who escapes from his torture? . . . And
to come back to that first question, "What does it mean when a philosopher renders
homage to the ascetic ideal," we get here at least our first hint: he wants to escape his
own torture

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15069979]

Suffering exceeds pleasure because it brings you closer to God by examining your self and discovering inner beauty.

[Anonymous No.15069988]

>>15069979
>*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.15069993]

>>15069912
Based. What kind of fucking robotic human wants to reduce their existence down to a series of chemical interactions? In the obscenity of detail that science provides, truth can only ever elude ones grasp.

[Anonymous No.15070010]

>>15069952
>>15069930
You're literally braindead. Just because one feels stronger than the other doesn't mean they're "activating different parts of the brain". The release of dopamine from meth is the same as the release of dopamine of some lesser drug, just to a much higher degree. Can you not understand the concept that two different things can work on the same "part" of your brain, and still produce two completely different outcomes?

[Anonymous No.15070019]

>>15069889
top kek

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15070032]

>>15069988
Nietzsche lived a dissolute life by rejecting God, had sex with a prostitute and contracted syphilis among many other deplorable deeds he smeared his miserable existence with. He's in no position to hold any moral ground.

[Anonymous No.15070043]

>>15070032
>christcuck incapable of making arguments
imagine my shock

[Anonymous No.15070049]

>>15070032
And yet he does, for even having done all those things, he is still better grounded to talk of morality than a tripfag who posts anime reaction pics.

[Anonymous No.15070056]

>>15070032
Yet remains the most influential philosopher for 20th century thought, time will tell what his real influence will look like.
Are you really arguing for God's existence by going "well people who believe in God are happier :)". What kind of retarded argument is that? I think your pea-brain would benefit from reading some philosophy.

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15070076]

>>15070056
I have read philosophy from The pre-socratics all the way up to St. Augustine and the Neoplatonists and i have come to the conclusion that belief in a divine entity is necessary to the meaning of one's life.
>Yet remains the most influential philosopher for 20th century thought, time will tell what his real influence will look like.
That's because his writings suit perfectly the godless materialist dystopia we live in.
>Are you really arguing for God's existence by going "well people who believe in God are happier :)".
Yes, I am. You shouldn't be surprised that the people who are depressed and commit the most suicides are atheists.

[Anonymous No.15070093]

>>15069931
If I could stab my thumb directly into your temple I would do it

[Anonymous No.15070096]

>>15070076
That's really weird, as Plotinus and Augustinus don't argue in favor of God for existential reasons, seems to me you're talking out of your ass, is that possible?

>That's because his writings suit perfectly the godless materialist dystopia we live in.
But he's the opposite of that.

>Yes, I am. You shouldn't be surprised that the people who are depressed and commit the most suicides are atheists.
Besides the fact that this is an embarrassingly under-complex analysis, it still doesn't amount to an argument in favor of God's existence. There's a reason, as I mentioned, that neo-platonists don't use this line of reasoning, as it is philosophically unsound.

I think you're a pseud who is lying.

[Anonymous No.15070099]

>>15070076
>I stopped reading philosophy at an arbitrary date in history because muh fee fees
read a book
>the only alternative to semitic mind slavery is epic Bill Nye worship and endless hedonism
eat a bullet

[Anonymous No.15070101]

>beauty is non-suffering
>women are beautiful
>therefore, women do not suffer
what did schopy mean by this?

[Anonymous No.15070111]

>>15070101
beautiful women do not directly suffer from the world around them, only indirectly via their own crippled psyche

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15070125]

>>15070096
>Plotinus and Augustinus don't argue in favor of God for existential reasons,
Plotinus and Augustinus aren't God.
>But he's the opposite of that.
Fatalism always leads to decadence.
>There's a reason, as I mentioned, that neo-platonists don't use this line of reasoning, as it is philosophically unsound.
See above.

[Anonymous No.15070128]

>>15070093
why?

[Anonymous No.15070143]

>>15070125
OK retard, your empty concessions won't veil the fact you're talking out of your low-IQ ass:

>I have read philosophy from The pre-socratics all the way up to St. Augustine and the Neoplatonists and i have come to the conclusion that belief in a divine entity is necessary to the meaning of one's life.

Makes no sense, as I've been trying to tell you, these philosophers don't make the case you're trying to make, because Plotinus wasn't a full-on-retard.

>Fatalism always leads to decadence.
What? What does fatalism have to do with Nietzsche? Are you just using words now for the sake of it?

Man, you're seriously embarrassing. I think you got trolled by 4chan larpers into thinking you can have a shortcut to true meaning by adopting half-assed theology, without having any of the philosophical insights.

[Anonymous No.15070155]

>>15069889
By that definition ingesting an entire bottle of antidepressants is the height of beauty.

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15070171]

>>15070143
>because Plotinus wasn't a full-on-retard.
Yeah except for all the contradictions Damascius had to fix centuries later.
>What? What does fatalism have to do with Nietzsche? Are you just using words now for the sake of it?
Twilight of Idols rings a bell?

[Anonymous No.15070184]

>>15070171
What? No one believes Damascius "fixed" Plotinus, they are wholly different Platonists. Man shut the fuck UP you are making shit up as you go lol.

>Twilight of Idols rings a bell?
Yes? What of it faggot? I wrote my Master's Thesis on it.

[Barachiel !sUNw..d3uE No.15070201]

>>15070184
>What? No one believes Damascius "fixed"
Sounds like you didn't read them to begin with. Damascius filled the holes Plotinus left in his thought and related the One to the divine Triad made of a monad (One in All) and two dyads (All in One and the United) standing right below the absolute One. If you can't tell Plotinus left countless contradictions in his Enneads then you didn't really read him.

[Anonymous No.15070231]

>>15070125
You say that fatalism leads to decadence and claim to have read St. Augustine? Embarassing

[Anonymous No.15070244]

>>15070231
I don't have to agree with everything philosophers say

[Anonymous No.15070281]

[Anonymous No.15070298]

>>15070281
https://archived.moe/lit/thread/12744888/#q12747113

[Anonymous No.15070430]

>>15070281
Footfags should be gassed

[Anonymous No.15070643]

>>15070281
fucking uggos is, in some ways, based.
i have never gotten the appeal of feet, however, even though Im a hornyposter par excellence. Id lick toes and suck them, and I wouldnt say no to a footjob, but it wouldnt be at the top of my list.

[Anonymous No.15070679]

>>15070032
>posts anime

[Anonymous No.15070709]

>>15069889
>"beauty is the absence of suffering"
Isn't completely wrong but evidently isn't completely right.

>According to neuroscientists, when a person listens to beautiful music or sees a beautiful sight or person, the contrast in amygdala causes the brain to produce endorphins and reduce cortisol, hence producing extreme pleasure
The means of it, however do not explain at all what beauty is to man and how it relates to his Being.

[Anonymous No.15070793]

>>15070096
Yeah no Plotinus didn't absolutely write against the Epicureans and the atomists for an existential reasons. Ask me how i know you're a fucking illiterate pseud.

[Anonymous No.15071091]

>>15069889
i DENY that there is hiearchical beauty within humans

[Anonymous No.15071093]

>>15069889
Neuroscience isn't a real science.
>"and then the brain LIGHTS UP when this happens!"
Literal nitwit bullshit.

[Anonymous No.15071111]

>>15070032
Prostitutes aren't bad.

[Anonymous No.15071114]

>>15071111
masturbation is bad

sex outside marriage is bad

[Anonymous No.15071274]

>>15071093
Based and anti-materialist pilled.

[Anonymous No.15071285]

>>15069912

spbp

[Anonymous No.15071329]

>>15070709
Well go on, BIG BRAIN, tell us your thoughts.

[Anonymous No.15071335]

>>15071093

[Anonymous No.15071361]

>>15070032
>it is a degeneracy argument
You have no argument and rely on self righteousness to keep yourself from seeing contradictions in your religion and yourself.

[Anonymous No.15071394]

>>15069993
>truth exists
bruh

[Anonymous No.15071407]

>>15071394
No, it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.15071423]

>>15071394
If it does we have no way of telling it apart from falsities

[Anonymous No.15071667]

A toast to beauty.

[Anonymous No.15071773]

>>15069993
>it's not true because I don't want it to be

[Anonymous No.15071781]

>>15071407
>>15071423
Is that right?

[Anonymous No.15071783]

>>15071667
a toast to your beautiful forehead, it never ends!

[Anonymous No.15071793]

>>15071781
Fuck if I know.

[Anonymous No.15071832]

>>15069889
We attribute ugliness to flaws. Perceiving a flaw is a kind of suffering. The idea is "fix the flaws and there will be no more suffering, thus there will be beauty."
A purely negative account is insufficient. Ugliness is positive, but so is beauty. We often point to specific features in works of art which we find beautiful.
Beauty is the presence of the beautiful, not merely the lack of the ugly.

[Anonymous No.15071837]

>>15071793
Does that sentence accurately represent your mental state?

[Anonymous No.15071854]

>>15071837
Mental states can't be accurately represented by language. You can come close, but you hit the impossible exchange barrier

[Anonymous No.15071870]

>>15069889
Beauty is not necessarily the absence of suffering, a tragic story can still be perfectly aesthetic

[Anonymous No.15071877]

>>15071854
Is that sentence an accurate statement of your thoughts on the matter?

[Anonymous No.15071883]

>>15071877
I wish it was. They're lost in representation

[Anonymous No.15071886]

That doesn't explain why I find sadism and masochism pleasureful

[Anonymous No.15071888]

>>15069889
nice bait OP, very high level

[Anonymous No.15071890]

>>15071886
Read foucalt lmao

[Anonymous No.15071896]

>>15069889
/jWYETgZ

[Anonymous No.15071902]

>>15071883
Is the idea that they are lost in representation itself lost in representation?

[Anonymous No.15071923]

>>15071902
Yeah, it's interesting. How can this one thing get lost in representation? Is it the semiologic conversion? Or something else? How can I even know? Things seem to keep disappearing as they appear.

[Anonymous No.15071990]

>>15071923
"liminative Materialism. Eliminative materialism (or eliminativism) is the radical claim that our ordinary, common-sense understanding of the mind is deeply wrong and that some or all of the mental states posited by common-sense do not actually exist and have no role to play in a mature science of the mind."

[Anonymous No.15072033]

>>15069912
he said, on the machine powered by science that runs his entire life

[Anonymous No.15072067]

>>15071923
>Things seem to keep disappearing as they appear.
you’re experiencing symptoms of schizophrenia

[Anonymous No.15072073]

>>15072067
Are you sure? I'm able to build a functioning table.

[Anonymous No.15072075]

>according to neuroscientists
Im a scientist myself but i fucking hate this anglicized fetish of "science" creeping in everywhere, including philosophy. Id rather have emotion-driven barbarism at this point.

[Anonymous No.15072084]

>>15072075
Fucking right? "I read a study..." "Scientists said" are the new unquestionable Wives' Tale of the 21st century.

[Anonymous No.15072091]

>>15072073
Is it true that the table functions?

[Anonymous No.15072107]

>>15072091
It's true that you've never read Anti-Oedipus

[Anonymous No.15072126]

But suffering/tragedy can be beautiful

[Anonymous No.15072136]

>>15069889
Based Schopie always right

[Anonymous No.15072144]

>>15069950
LSD actually reduces CNS serotonin levels temporarily because of its 5-HT1A agonist activity, but because of how it binds to various serotonin and dopamine receptors you don't notice or feel sad because the LSD is activating them instead of the serotonin

[Anonymous No.15072145]

>>15072075
yeah, and it always seems like they think everything ever said by a scientist is a consensus
and don't get me started on what people like those on Good Morning American do with scientific studies

[Anonymous No.15072152]

>>15072126
Is it ever the suffering itself that is beautiful? Or is it some other element that is present alongside the suffering?

[Anonymous No.15072206]

>>15072126
Yes, in art, not in real life. Unless you're a sadomasochist or a psychopath.

[Anonymous No.15072212]

>>15070032
>moral ground.

[Anonymous No.15072337]

>>15070032
>anime
Sad little last man detected

[Anonymous No.15072408]

>>15069889
Beauty in humans is just the will of the species telling you that that person has good physical qualities.
More beautiful = more attractive for reproduction.
No, it's not canceling your suffering, its just making you horny.

[Anonymous No.15072539]

Imagine being an adult male and caring about women...

[Anonymous No.15072593]

>>15069889
what the hell is this? "endorphins", "cortisol"? do you actually believe in this?

[Anonymous No.15072902]

>>15069926
is the tiny man beautiful

[Anonymous No.15072953]

>>15069973
>(With all questions
>concerning Schopenhauer's philosophy, incidentally, we should never fail to consider
>that it is the conception of a twenty-six-year-old young man, so that it involves not
>merely the specific details of Schopenhauer but also the specific details of that time of
>life).
So basically healthy, and not perverse. That last paragraph was incredibly insightful though.

[Anonymous No.15072980]

>>15069973
>muh dick
Nietzsche was really the father of psychoanalysis

[Anonymous No.15073777]

>>15071093
based

[Anonymous No.15074529]

i just googled and he never said that. At least not not in these exact words.

Drop a full context jackass.

[Anonymous No.15074596]

>>15070643
>even though Im a hornyposter par excellence
The most based sentence I have read in a week.

[Anonymous No.15074803]

>>15069889
As an actual, professional medicinal chemist, y'all are retarded and ignorant

[Anonymous No.15074907]

>>15074803
oh rly

[Anonymous No.15074936]

>>15074803
Shut up nerd